[FSUG-Bangalore] [fosscomm] roadblocks to free society - kannada version

[renuka prasad]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:57 PM, jaykumar hs <jaykumarhs at gmail.com> wrote:

> It is really a good work, though translation needs some correction.
>
> But I beg to differ with one term.
>
> In Kannada we should use the word "Swatantra tantraamsha" to mean "Free
> Software". In the present translated work, another kannada word "Mukta" has
> been used in place of "Swatantra". In Kannada, Mukta conveys two meanings
> based on the context we use:
> 1) Open and 2) Freedom.
>
> Hence usage of this word lands us into trap to mean both Open software and
> Free Software. Open Source Industry surely seeks such ambiguity to further
> the confusion among common folks of kannada language.
>
> But the word "Swatantra" doesnot give scope for such ambiguity. "Swatantra"
> symbolizes the freedom and have not come across any other such popular word
> in kannada to mean "Freedom".
>
> A kannada-english dictinary, by Rev F Kittel, mangalore,basel mission book
and tract depository 1894 says
 ಮುಕ್ತ - mukta -- s,a
Loosened,let loose, unloosed, let loose, set free, quitted;
relaxed;-discharged, shed thrown, cast, shot;- abandoned, quitted, left, put
off, laid aside; (ended) given up;- released, liberated,emancipated, ( from
transmigration,personal existence, requiring freedom, etc ); to be
emancipated,  requiring freedom ( from worldly existence etc )

ಸ್ವತಂತ್ರ - sva-taNtra : self dependence,self-reliant, independent, free
absolute, self-willed,unrestrained,unruly,libertine.. no longer subject to
parents, of  age. independence, etc.

ಸ್ವಾತಂತ್ರ್ಯ - svaataNtrya : the power of following one's own will, freedom
of will, independence free will..

---------------------------------------------------------------

II edition, revised and enlarged by Prof.Christanuja Watsa, chiefly based on
the labours of Dr.F.Kittel ( kannada-English Dictionary), by Rev.J Bucher (
Jan, 1923 )

ಸ್ವತಂತ್ರ swatantra -- s,n
self-independence; independence,Independent, free;self-willed,unruly

ಸ್ವತಂತ್ರಿಸು - swataMtrisu --s,v,t To take liberty, make oneself free

 ಮುಕ್ತ mukta -- s,a
Loosened,let loose,set free,quitted; released,liberated,emancipated,
discharged as a weapon

ಸ್ವಾತಂತ್ರ್ಯ  swaataMtrya --s,n Independence; free will, freedom

--------------------------------------------------------------------

beyond all these, when you refer  Mysore university's prasaraanga kannada
dictionary , that is english to kannada dictionary, we will not get any
definition similar to what the meaning we saw above. that is freedom has the
meaning of  the kannada word "svaataNtra'' ಸ್ವಾತಂತ್ರ್ಯ   not "sva-tantra''
ಸ್ವತಂತ್ರ

then when we look at the "kaanada saahithya parishath dictionary" for
kan-kan dictionary then we get the meaning of freedom for swatantra but
again this dictionary will give more close meaning to the svaatantrya
ಸ್ವಾತಂತ್ರ್ಯ  when they talk about 'freedom"

also another dictionary "standard dictionary", d k bharadvaj's
(english -english- kannada)  has a bit of mixed up meanings or rather i
should say that they are interchanigingly used

-------------------------------------------------
now coming to the usage of the kannada translated word "open' has a clear
meaning that something is opened .

free has the closer meaning to liberated , free from all and then comes to
the the meaning "free of cost ' depending upon the context

--------------------------------------------------- some more contexts
to mean open university in kannada the word 'mukta' is used to say that
university is open , my understanding is that when it was used to say so
,has meant that the university is giving some freedoms or has some less
restrictionsI found that here it was not a word to word translation were
done

next -- about he usage of the word 'svatantra' and 'svaatantryaa'          (
ಸ್ವತಂತ್ರ , ಸ್ವಾತಂತ್ರ್ಯ  , is very clear first one is about independent and
second one is about independence or freedom but of-course it is true that
they are used with interchanged meanings at several
contexts by many

--- when we just talk about svatantra -- may be some of your thoughts and
many would  say that we are having a freedom which is again a context

now when we attach some feelings to certain contexts with the words that the
language provides then it is a mere abstraction of the feeling that we
actually wanted to talk about.

so depending upon on the context we will be using the word is what you and
many  of us are feeling

also i spoke to many professional translators like ravindranath, dr yoganada
and also dicussed with many lecturers and professors of few universities

majority of them say that we can use either mukta or svatantra ( to talk
about freedom (with context only)
and when it comes to using the word svatantra it is not very close to
freedom by looking at all the references that i went through

even though i used the word swatantra while translating the RMS Selected
essays, now i am feeling that both the words could be used interchangingly
that is  either mukta( ಮುಕ್ತ ) or swatantra (ಸ್ವತಂತ್ರ) and we all know the
context that we are talking about

-- if some body has more explanation/references/ comments please send

i would prefer to use  "ಮುಕ್ತ ತಂತ್ರಾಂಶ " to say "free software " till i get
more proper references that would convince me to use any other words
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