[FSUG-Bangalore] [fosscomm] roadblocks to free society - kannada version

[renuka prasad]

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 10:29 PM, jaykumar hs <jaykumarhs at gmail.com> wrote:

> *On Kannada translations:*
> In any language, there are many synonyms for any word. But, while doing
> translations into any other language, important aspect that needs to be kept
> in mind are:
> Usage of words in Literary and Colloquial world in that particular language
> to which translation to be done. one should select a word which easily
> conveys the intended meaning.
>
>
this rule could be applied for kanglissh ( mix of kannada and english ) is
what i feel

> *Example 1:*
> India is an independent country i,e She has got independence.
>

ಇಲ್ಲಿ ಇಂಗ್ಲಿಷೀನ ಫ್ರೀಡಂ ಎನ್ನುವುದು ಇಂಡಿಪೆಂಡೆನ್ಸ್ ಪದಕ್ಕೆ ಸಮಾನಾರ್ಥಕ ಪದ.
> ಆದ್ದರಿಂದ ನಾವು  ಸ್ವಾತಂತ್ರ್ಯ ದಿನವನ್ನು 'Independence day' ಎಂದು ಕರೆಯುತ್ತೇವೆ. The
> word 'Independent' is originated from 'Independence'. It is a matter of
> understanding Noun, Verb and Adjective of a word.
> * *
>
this is the problem what i too see many times .. analysing in mother tounge
and writing in some other language makes to think so


> *Translation into kannada:*
> 1) Popular and good translation: ಭಾರತ ಒಂದು ಸ್ವತಂತ್ರ ದೇಶ. (ಅಂದರೆ, ಭಾರತ
> ಸ್ವಾತಂತ್ರ್ಯ ಹೊಂದಿದೆ. )
> ಭಾರತವು ಸ್ವಾತಂತ್ರ್ಯವನ್ನು ಪಡೆದಿರುವುದರಿಂದಲೇ ಅದು 'ಸ್ವತಂತ್ರ' ದೇಶ.
> ಸ್ವಾತಂತ್ರ್ಯ= ಸ್ವತಂತ್ರ
>


> ಈ ಪದಗಳ ತತ್ಸಮ ಮತ್ತು ತದ್ಭವ ನೋಡಿರಿ.
>  ೨)  Wrong Translation : ಭಾರತ ಒಂದು 'ಮುಕ್ತ' ದೇಶ. (ಅಂದರೆ, ಭಾರತ 'ಮುಕ್ತ' ವನ್ನು
> ಹೊಂದಿದೆ. )
>

this is your own interpretation, and ofcoure many others might be doing

>
> *Some more examples:*
> 1) 'Independent Karnataka' is translated as: swatantra karnataka (i,e
> Karnataka which has got freedom and hence independent))
> 2) 'Independent India' is translated as : swatantra Bharatha (ie, Bharath
> which has got freedom and hence independent)
> 3) We never call 'mukta bharatha' but we call 'swatantra bharatha'. Hence
> why do you call 'mukta tantraamsha'?
>
> The translation of the word 'Independence' (i,e freedom) into kannada as
> 'swatantra' is so much penetrated into the minds of the people and kannada
> literary world that 'Swatantra' (Freedom) doesnot give any ambiguity.
>
>

please give references


> Even when some one is a dedicated free software activist, he/she would
> stand on the wrong side of the history when they fail to understand where
> his/her contribution is actually heading towards.
>
> As a result of this, one should not forget the basic fact that Usage of
> 'Mukta' would surely mislead the common man in Karnataka.
>

i am still open to use the word "ಸತಂತ್ರ"  but not just that word ( may be
like "ಸತಂತ್ರ/ ಮುಕ್ತ" as i could not get a convincing answers , what is see
here is more of those answer from a translator who would mix up thoughts
which are coming from different languages . when we think in one language
and write in one language while taking meanigs from the previous references
this may not happen---

till i get a convincing answer i would continue to use "ಮುಕ್ತ" or "ಸತಂತ್ರ/
ಮುಕ್ತ"
rather than just  "ಸತಂತ್ರ"

>
> Regards
> Jaykumar
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:36 AM, renuka prasad <renukaprasadb at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> 2009/11/23 renuka prasad <renukaprasadb at gmail.com>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 2009/11/23 Hari Prasad Nadig <hpnadig at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> ರೇಣುಕ,
>>>>
>>>> ಸ್ವತಂತ್ರ ಅಂದ್ರೆ ಸ್ವಾತಂತ್ರ್ಯ ನೀಡುವ ಎಂದಾಗುತ್ತೆ. ಫ್ರೀ ಸಾಫ್ಟ್ವೇರ್ ಕೊನೆಗೆ
>>>> ಅದೇ ಅಲ್ವ? ಇಂಗ್ಲೀಷಿನಲ್ಲಿ ಫ್ರೀ (ಸ್ವಾತಂತ್ರ್ಯ) ಮತ್ತು ಫ್ರೀ (ಉಚಿತ) ನಡುವೆ ಇರೋ
>>>> ಗೊಂದಲ ಕನ್ನಡದಲ್ಲಿಲ್ಲ! ನಮಗೆ ಅದಕ್ಕೆಂದೇ ಒಂದು ಪದ ಉಂಟಲ್ಲ. :-)
>>>>
>>>> ಮುಕ್ತ ಅಂದರೆ ಮುಕ್ತವಾದದ್ದು ಅಥವ ಓಪನ್ ಸೌರ್ಸ್ ಎಂದು ಮಾತ್ರ ಆಗುತ್ತದೆ. ಸ್ವತಂತ್ರ
>>>> ಎಂದರೆ ಅದನ್ನು ಬದಲಾಯಿಸುವ ಸ್ವಾತ್ರಂತ್ರ್ಯ ಕೂಡ ಸಿಕ್ಕಂತೆ.
>>>>
>>>>
>> how about translating these sentences ?
>>
>> India is free
>> India got freedom
>> India is Independent
>> India has Independent Laws
>> Indian society is a free society
>>
>>
>> Software is Free
>> Software gives Freedom
>>
>> Citizens are Free
>> Citizens are having Freedom
>>
>> Company gives freedom with thier product
>> Companies product is free
>>
>> When it tried to translate what happened was we got many contexts and
>> another problem is that we feel something and to express that, sometimes we
>> may not get exact words so we use words with contexts
>>
>> then what is the basic problem with the translation what i felt is that we
>> will not think in one language and write in one language , when we start
>> thinking in different languages and write in different languages we mix up
>> the things because of which we listen sentences and use sentences by mixing
>> both the languages like the radio jockeys do .. resulting in a bit confused
>> translations
>>
>> so may be what we feel will be write and when i say that Free Software i
>> will be knowing the context and many would be knowing the context that i am
>> talking so i would use "ಮುಕ್ತ ತಂತ್ರಾಂಶ " to say "free software "
>>
>> also i have no problem using in the following way
>> "ಮುಕ್ತ / ಸ್ವತಂತ್ರ  ತಂತ್ರಾಂಶ " to say "free software " and those who feel
>> that the word ಸ್ವತಂತ್ರ could read that and those who want the other one
>> ಮುಕ್ತ will also be happy
>>
>> but i am not yet convinced to to not to use the word ಮುಕ್ತ
>> anyways we will usually use many words while advocating about free
>> software
>>
>>
>>
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>
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