[FSF India] RH, SuSE etc

[Khuzaima A. Lakdawala]

Radhakrishnan CV <cvr@river-valley.com> writes:

> On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 at 10:41, Pappu wrote:
> 
>    Mohit Agarwal writes:
>     >
>     > Take a look at http://sources.redhat.com/ [*] and you'll find who
>     > maintains (or helps in a big way to maintain) projects like glibc,
>     > gcc, gdb just to name a few.
> 
>    A company helping in maintanence of free software is not an
>    excuse for using non-free software.  The problem I found with
>    most distributions is that they mix together free and non-free
>    software together. On the other hand, while installing debian,
>    I am clearly asked whether I want to use non-free software.
>    This makes things easier.  I don't know any thing about the
>    motivation behind other distributions not doing so. But as
>    Khuzaima pointed out, it looks like >>taking a free ride<<.
> 
> One should appreciate the business compulsions of companies relating
> to survival in a chaotic economic scenario. We need to fathom deep
> into the real reasons behind the closing of free software companies
> instead of bullying them with emotions. Every company has an
> economic basis for their activities and economic obligations too, at
> least to their staffers that they cant simply ignore.

Please forgive me if I am wrong in interpreting the above but you are
suggesting that it is not possible for a free software company to
survive without compromising on the fundamental principles of free
software. *That* is a really depressing scenario indeed!

As for the need to look into the real reasons behind the closing of
free software companies, that's clearly the job of economists, not of
free software advocates. Nevertheless, if at all such an exercise is
undertaken, I bet it will be found that the reasons had nothing to do
with the ideology of free software but were in fact the same reasons
why so many other high flying technology companies unrelated to free
software also closed down in the crash of the new millennium --
namely, bad or flawed business models. We cannot blame the ideology
for failure in implementation; we cannot say, for instance, (please
forgive the cliched analogy) that because the Soviet Union failed it
is not really possible to have a truly socialist state.

> 
> At the same time, if any of the distribution companies insist for
> using their non-free stuff along with GNU/Linux system that they
> distribute or restrict the download of GNU/Linux software from their
> sites we can avoid them. I dont think Red Hat or SuSe put any
> conditions like the above. If they add oracle server to their
> distribution and come up with a price tag and restrictions,
> obviously, it is not targetted at the user population that we
> discuss about and none of the users is bothered also.
> 
> I believe that none of the GNU/Linux users here will be carried away
> by the marketing tricks or gimmicks of the distribution companies.
> If they're a vulnerable lot, they would have fallen a prey to
> Microsoft and would have never become a GNU/Linux user. As such,

You have missed a *crucial* point here. We should not be the least bit
worried about *existing* GNU/Linux users. We should be worried about
*potential* GNU users!  Users who have probably *already* "fallen a
prey to Microsoft". How shall we describe one of these distributions
to them? "This is an alternative to Microsoft. This is supposed to be
free software but because of some business compulsions this one too
has some proprietary software just like Microsoft. But it is
technically superior, more secure, cheaper..."

> they are intelligent enough to judge for themselves what they need
> to use or what they should avoid. They dont need the goading of any
> of the self styled GNU gurus around who seem to have suspicious
> intellectual honesty or integrity and their advice/judgement reminds
> me of taking back to the ages, temporament and obstinacy of the
> medieval clergy.
> 
>    Aren't we mixing too many things in this discussion and taking
>    away focus from issues that concern freedom? I feel that we
>    should stop the distributions/ethics thread and discuss about
> 
> Please dont request people not to talk, people listened to you, let
> them speak what they feel about what you've told. If the thread
> deserves no attention, it will die of its own, we need not kill it.
> 
>    the idea proposed by Khuzaima at the begining of this thread.
> 
> Sure, we should not loose it.
> 
> -- 
> Radhakrishnan
> 
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> 
> 

-- 
Khuzaima A. Lakdawala