From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Wed Aug 1 03:54:50 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Kalyan Varma) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:24:50 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] (DMCA) In-Reply-To: <3B66F024.8EDFC28E@eth.net> Message-ID: There will be no big impact with a protest here. However we have to make sure a law like DMCA is not passed in our country. - -kalyan On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, M Balakrishna Pillai wrote: > > dear freedom fighters > > I think we should chart out and execute protest. Some body come > forward and co-ordinate it. > > M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Wed Aug 1 10:16:16 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 15:46:16 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Debian Multimedia Project (DeMuDi) Message-ID: <3B67D6F0.51751E14@ti.com> May be of interest to some one in this list.. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ The Debian Multimedia Distribution[1] (DeMuDi) project is an effort to build a Linux distribution for the purpose of multimedia work. The Debian GNU/Linux distribution already contains the tools for building and maintaining such a distribution and will serve as the basis for this distribution. Current Linux distributions either target web applications and services or on desktop machines. Multimedia and specifically multimedia production capabilities have only recently been well integrated into the Linux kernel. Curently, people who are interested in using the power of Linux to do multimedia and artistic work must compile programs on their own and face issues such as incompatible interfaces, availability of hardware drivers and several other related issues, lowering to a considerable amount artistic productivity. The Debian Multimedia Distribution tries to overcome these problems by providing a customized distribution specifically for this kind of user. The package list[2] contains prepackaged programs chosen by DeMuDi that the user can easily install onto his system to have a fully-functional multimedia workspace. Many packages targeted for integration into DeMuDi are already packaged and part of the Debian distribution. DeMuDi is supported by the following organizations: . Free Software Foundation Europe[3] . Computer Music Institute[4], Firenze . Verein für experimentelle Datenverarbeitung[5], Vienna Links: 1. http://www.demudi.org/ 2. http://gige.xdv.org/pages/DeMuDi/pages/packages 3. http://www.fsfeurope.org/ 4. http://www.centrotemporeale.it/ 5. http://www.xdv.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Wed Aug 1 15:00:34 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R.Lakshmikanth) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 20:30:34 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Video CD Player for Linux.... Message-ID: <011301c11a9a$dd62a5c0$23b409ca@eth.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C11AC8.D0F6C860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi folks, I'm a new entrant in the mailing list. I work in Odyssey technologies = Ltd., Chennai. I'm using Linux for the past three years. RH 7.1 is my flavour now. I'm actually looking for a good Video CD Player for Linux.=20 Please gimme links from where I can download the player. Thanx in = advance. With Warm Regards, R.Lakshmikanth. ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C11AC8.D0F6C860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi folks,
 
 I'm a new entrant = in the mailing=20 list. I work in Odyssey technologies Ltd., = Chennai.
 
 I'm using Linux for the past = three years. RH=20 7.1 is my flavour now.
 
 I'm actually looking for a good = Video CD=20 Player for Linux.
 
 Please gimme links from where I = can download=20 the player. Thanx in advance.
 
With Warm=20 Regards,
R.Lakshmikanth.
------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C11AC8.D0F6C860-- From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Wed Aug 1 16:27:23 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 21:57:23 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Video CD Player for Linux.... In-Reply-To: <011301c11a9a$dd62a5c0$23b409ca@eth.net> References: <011301c11a9a$dd62a5c0$23b409ca@eth.net> Message-ID: <20010801215723.A2756@debianut.ekmnet> [Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:30:34PM +0530] R.Lakshmikanth : > actually looking for a good Video CD Player for Linux. Get hold of Xine, the best one around. The URL for this is http://xine.sourceforge.net/ Xine plays MPEG system streams (ie. MPEG videos with sound). In contrast to many other players, it does its best to synchronize audio and video. This wonderful program is getting better & better, tnx to the GNU GPL... -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Keeping the Air-Waves FREE...........Amateur Radio Keeping your Software FREE.........the GNU Project Keeping the W W W FREE....Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 03:52:50 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:22:50 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: <3B665625.1A038AF2@nsc.ernet.in> <2136.192.168.0.2.996591370.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9E04AF44A64EE27E38C1B13B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Satyakam Goswami wrote: > hi, > i am working on a draft proposal for use of GNU/Linux in Schools anybody > intrested in these kind of projects or if they are already working on something > like this i would be glad to learn about it. This is a very important step. Probably the first thing to be done is to provide help for installing GNU/Linux in schools having computers already. Present status at many places is, they just have MSWindows running and the "Educational Software" is MS-Office. But without an easy to use word processor, many won't switch over. I use 'abiword' and find it very good. Another aspect is the kind of machines owned by achools. Many may have Pentium-I machines still running. RedHat 7.1 or any latest distributions are not going to run on it comfortably. They can run as good X-terminals. One good place to look for is the Linux Terminal Server Project homepage. www.ltsp.org. A networked system is anyway a must in schools to have teacher-student interaction. ajith --------------9E04AF44A64EE27E38C1B13B Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------9E04AF44A64EE27E38C1B13B-- From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 03:54:49 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:24:49 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: <3B66E628.46056B57@eth.net> Message-ID: <3B68CF09.380A7CB0@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0D66FED829084C40913E7C5A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit M Balakrishna Pillai wrote: > Probably for SuSE advantage. Here in Kochi raoo is distributing Debian > GNU/Linux at Rs.100/- for 3 CDS (this man, I think, is not taking any > profit.) > like to get the address of the place in Cochin. Does he sent it by post. Like to know the details. ajith --------------0D66FED829084C40913E7C5A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------0D66FED829084C40913E7C5A-- From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 04:49:30 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Mohit Agarwal) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:19:30 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: Today at 09:22 +0530, Ajith Kumar wrote: : Present status at many places is, they just have MSWindows running and : the "Educational Software" is MS-Office. But without an easy to use : word processor, many won't switch over. I use 'abiword' and find it : very good. Another aspect is the kind of machines owned by achools. I looked at `abiword' for the first time today. It seems to resemble the M$ windoughs `word' perfectly! Have you ever heard of something called TeX or LaTeX? A program called `lyx' -- distributed under the GNU GPL -- is aimed aimed specifically for those who haven't heard of LaTeX, or are afraid to learn it. It's provides a WYSYWYG interface to LaTeX, and is indeed very simple, and much less frustrating than the windoughs `word'. mohit From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 05:09:01 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:39:01 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, A quick intro - I'm 20 yr chap doing my 4th year Chemical Engg. at IIT Madras. > This is a very important step. Probably the first thing to be done is to provide > help for installing GNU/Linux in schools having computers already. Present Accept every word. The problem is, as most of you will accept, a lack of awareness about Linux and "fundaes" in general. I was in Trichy recently, doing my summer job in BHEL there. They use all Windows 2K machines. I started talking with the people about trying out Linux and they'd ask me questions like after I have Linux can I still boot into Windows, how can there be two different OSes on the same machine, won't it delete all my files, and worst of all, IS IT SECURE!! It took me one hour to convince them to finally try Linux and the guys there are actually pretty happy about it. The point is, inspite of the huge media attention Linux is getting these days, *LOTS* of people still have no idea about it. So, getting people to try out Linux implies that you'll have to spend quite some time discussing the various issues in favour of Linux, get the teachers familiarised with it, lots of patience etc. It would be great if we could get more volunteers in this regard. I'm ready from Chennai (and places in and around it .. I love driving :-) > status at many places is, they just have MSWindows running and the > "Educational Software" is MS-Office. But without an easy to use word processor, > many won't switch over. I use 'abiword' and find it very good. > Another aspect is the kind of machines owned by achools. Many may have > Pentium-I machines still running. RedHat 7.1 or any latest distributions are > not going to run on it comfortably. They can run as good X-terminals. One > good place to look for is the Linux Terminal Server Project homepage. > www.ltsp.org. A networked system is anyway a must in schools to have > teacher-student interaction. Abiword is good. I'd actually suggest Star-Office. The nice thing about having people start off with Star-Office is the ability to have them save their files in native Windows formats like .doc, .ppt etc. I mean, if a teacher has to, say, give a presentation, the machine she'd use to give it would more probably than not, have Win on it. Until and unless they have Linux on all machines, we'd rather not assume so. Regarding the OS flavour, I'm pretty much in favour of LTSP. On the server, personally, I'd say Red Hat 6.2 over 7.1. Don't aske me why ... I just find it a *LOT* more comfortable, and definitely so for a newbie. Just a personal opinion. I might have made some extremely stupid/WRONG statements in the paragraphs above. If you find something wrong, feel free to flame me :-). Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 05:32:29 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:02:29 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: ; from ch98086@che.iitm.ac.in on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:39:01AM +0530 References: Message-ID: <20010802110229.B5656@mailandnews.com> On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:39:01AM +0530, R Sai Kiran wrote: > > Accept every word. The problem is, as most of you will accept, a > lack of awareness about Linux .... The most important fact that people have to be aware of is that the operating system is GNU and not linux. Popularity of this OS or the number of people using it is not, and never was the objective behind developing a free OS. If people are not aware of their freedoms, what do they benefit from this free OS. (forget technical merrits, since all OSes have their technical merrits). Please make it a practice to say GNU/Linux (or just GNU if GNU/Linux is too long) when you speak of the OS. Otherwise we will be defeating its fundamental goal. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 05:46:59 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:16:59 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1067.192.168.0.8.996731219.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > > Hi, > > A quick intro - I'm 20 yr chap doing my 4th year Chemical Engg. at > IIT Madras. > >> This is a very important step. Probably the first thing to be done is to >> provide help for installing GNU/Linux in schools having computers already. >> Present > > Accept every word. The problem is, as most of you will accept, a > lack of awareness about Linux and "fundaes" in general. I was in Trichy > recently, doing my summer job in BHEL there. They use all Windows 2K > machines. I started talking with the people about trying out Linux and > they'd ask me questions like after I have Linux can I still boot into > Windows, how can there be two different OSes on the same machine, won't it > delete all my files, and worst of all, IS IT SECURE!! It took me one hour > to convince them to finally try Linux and the guys there are actually > pretty happy about it. The point is, inspite of the huge media attention > Linux is getting these days, *LOTS* of people still have no idea about it. > So, getting people to try out Linux implies that you'll have to spend quite > some time discussing the various issues in favour of Linux, get the > teachers familiarised with it, lots of patience etc. It would be great if > we could get more volunteers in this regard. I'm ready from Chennai (and > places in and around it .. I love driving :-) this is a good approach, it works every time for mee too :) As for the volunteers there are two fellas from the local lug who have shown intrest lets see how many like minded ppl can get together and work for the cause. > >> status at many places is, they just have MSWindows running and the >> "Educational Software" is MS-Office. But without an easy to use word >> processor, many won't switch over. I use 'abiword' and find it very good. >> Another aspect is the kind of machines owned by achools. Many may have >> Pentium-I machines still running. RedHat 7.1 or any latest distributions >> are not going to run on it comfortably. They can run as good X-terminals. >> One good place to look for is the Linux Terminal Server Project homepage. >> www.ltsp.org. A networked system is anyway a must in schools to have >> teacher-student interaction. i will have a look at it. > > Abiword is good. I'd actually suggest Star-Office. The nice thing > about having people start off with Star-Office is the ability to have them > save their files in native Windows formats like .doc, .ppt etc. I mean, if > a teacher has to, say, give a presentation, the machine she'd use to give > it would more probably than not, have Win on it. Until and unless they have > Linux on all machines, we'd rather not assume so. Regarding the OS flavour, > I'm pretty much in favour of LTSP. On the server, personally, I'd say Red > Hat 6.2 over 7.1. Don't aske me why ... I just find it a *LOT* more > comfortable, and definitely so for a newbie. Just a personal opinion. i think we will stick on with Open Office in the true spirit of Free Software. > > I might have made some extremely stupid/WRONG statements in > the paragraphs above. If you find something wrong, feel free to flame me > :-). cheers S.Goswami ------------------------------------- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 05:53:28 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:23:28 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: <3B665625.1A038AF2@nsc.ernet.in> <2136.192.168.0.2.996591370.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> Satyakam Goswami wrote: > > i am working on a draft proposal for use of GNU/Linux in Schools anybody > intrested in these kind of projects or if they are already working on something > like this i would be glad to learn about it. I think LTSP is the way to go. There is also a K12-LTSP project specifically aimed at schools. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 06:15:53 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:45:53 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> References: <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> Message-ID: <1375.192.168.0.2.996732953.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > i am working on a draft proposal for use of GNU/Linux in Schools >> anybody >> intrested in these kind of projects or if they are already working on >> something like this i would be glad to learn about it. > > I think LTSP is the way to go. There is also a K12-LTSP project > specifically aimed at schools. > i will check that cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 06:16:25 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Jayan S R) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:46:25 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] Windoze syllabus for +2 In-Reply-To: <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> Message-ID: what can we do about this? The KV school syllabus for Computer Science 11th and 12th have changed last year from C ans C++ to the following. 11 Std consists of Fox pro programming and M$ Word 12 Std consists of Fox pro advanced programming and Advanced -:) Windoze Word and Excel. something should be done about this or else all the students will be brain damaged. regards -- jsr From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 06:38:33 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:08:33 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <1067.192.168.0.8.996731219.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: Hi, > i think we will stick on with Open Office in the true spirit of Free > Software. I have'nt yet tried the Open Office. Will download it today. If it is pretty much the same as Star Office, except for the licensing, I guess it would be just GREAT. And Pappu, point noted. Thanks. The GNU is the way to go :-) Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 09:17:57 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:47:57 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] Windoze syllabus for +2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1204.192.168.0.8.996743877.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > 11 Std consists of Fox pro programming and M$ Word > > 12 Std consists of Fox pro advanced programming and Advanced -:) Windoze > Word and Excel. > > something should be done about this or else all the students will be brain > damaged. We can contact the Kendriya Vidyalaya Sangathan in delhi may be FSF can pursue this issue. cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 09:54:11 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 15:24:11 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Windoze syllabus for +2 References: Message-ID: <3B692343.BF272DA6@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------383C0F3949D5490482B38CEE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jayan S R wrote: > what can we do about this? > > The KV school syllabus for Computer Science 11th and 12th have changed > last year from C ans C++ to the following. > > 11 Std consists of Fox pro programming and M$ Word > > 12 Std consists of Fox pro advanced programming and Advanced -:) Windoze > Word and Excel. > Including the products from specific vendors in the syllabus of a course only shows the lack of understanding of those who did it. It is perfectly okey to teach a language like C or C++ but instead of Fox-Pro, it should have been RDBMS systems and SQL with example systems. It is a waste of time to comment on the logic of including Word or Excel in a syllabus. Anyway this should bu pointed out to the attention of those who are responsible. ajith --------------383C0F3949D5490482B38CEE Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------383C0F3949D5490482B38CEE-- From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:10:05 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 15:40:05 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: Message-ID: <3B6926FD.CB02FB5B@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8AEB0696164008BE8547E240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit R Sai Kiran wrote: > Hi, > > A quick intro - I'm 20 yr chap doing my 4th year Chemical Engg. at > IIT Madras. > So, getting people to try out Linux implies that you'll have to spend > quite some time discussing the various issues in favour of Linux, get the > teachers familiarised with it, lots of patience etc. It would be great if > we could get more volunteers in this regard. I'm ready from Chennai (and > places in and around it .. I love driving :-) > What you should do is write to the heads of few colleges and schools about Free software offering a talk and demonstration. Talk should stress more on the philosophy of 'freedom' and demo should talk about the technical merits. If you can rent an LCD projector and show something like 'gimp', even the diehard Window user will have second thoughts. If you don't talk about the philosophy behind 'free sofware', always there will be people trying to compare MS with GNU/Linux by bringing out irrelevent details. It is difficult to convince an average user about the quality and reliability of an OS but he will easily see the 'advantage ' of having two more fonts supported by his word processor. Anyway these are my personal *untested* opinion only. ajith > > > status at many places is, they just have MSWindows running and the > > "Educational Software" is MS-Office. But without an easy to use word processor, > > many won't switch over. I use 'abiword' and find it very good. > > Another aspect is the kind of machines owned by achools. Many may have > > Pentium-I machines still running. RedHat 7.1 or any latest distributions are > > not going to run on it comfortably. They can run as good X-terminals. One > > good place to look for is the Linux Terminal Server Project homepage. > > www.ltsp.org. A networked system is anyway a must in schools to have > > teacher-student interaction. > > Abiword is good. I'd actually suggest Star-Office. The nice thing > about having people start off with Star-Office is the ability to have them > save their files in native Windows formats like .doc, .ppt etc. I mean, if > a teacher has to, say, give a presentation, the machine she'd use to give > it would more probably than not, have Win on it. Until and unless they > have Linux on all machines, we'd rather not assume so. Regarding the OS > flavour, I'm pretty much in favour of LTSP. On the server, personally, I'd > say Red Hat 6.2 over 7.1. Don't aske me why ... I just find it a *LOT* > more comfortable, and definitely so for a newbie. Just a personal opinion. > > I might have made some extremely stupid/WRONG statements in > the paragraphs above. If you find something wrong, feel free to flame me > :-). > > Regards, > > Sai > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Recursion n: > See Recursion > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 > > _______________________________________________ > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india --------------8AEB0696164008BE8547E240 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------8AEB0696164008BE8547E240-- From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 09:57:43 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Vivek Agarwal) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:27:43 +0530 Subject: [Life] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01080215274304.00761@vivek> Hi, this is vivek agarwal. I am the CEO of egurucool.com. We offer a range courses to the students in schools through an intranet offering. This is a NT based application..please let me know the details of what exactly you are proposing for schools and let me see if we can hook in any way.. vivek On Tuesday 31 July 2001 11:28 pm, Frederick Noronha wrote: > Hi, There's a LIFE mailing list, running from Mumbai. Contact > life@mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in It's run from the Tata Institute of Fundamental > Research by Prof Nagarajuna. > Do send me your draft proposal too. Frederick Noronha, Freelance > Journalist, Goa. > > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Satyakam Goswami wrote: > > hi, > > i am working on a draft proposal for use of GNU/Linux in Schools > > anybody intrested in these kind of projects or if they are already > > working on something like this i would be glad to learn about it. > > > > cheers > > S.Goswami > > > > > > --------------------------------------- > > Archean Infotech > > Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar > > Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com > > Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 > > Mobile:9849016667 > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > This email was sent using SquirrelMail. > > "Webmail for nuts!" > > http://squirrelmail.org/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india > > _______________________________________________ > LIFE mailing list > LIFE@mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in > http://mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in/mailman/listinfo/life From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:17:36 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:47:36 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <00cb01c119d5$2123b040$2600a8c0@2> References: <00cb01c119d5$2123b040$2600a8c0@2> Message-ID: <1421.192.168.0.8.996747456.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > U might be aware of Life (linux for education) which was started by > Nagarjuna G. at Tata institute of Fund. Research. > > There are few gathered at mailing list for the purpose and all would be > able to find more like minded over there. There site is down and i tried calling nagarjun's number in Mumbai, nobody responded. S.Goswami ________________________________________ Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:31:48 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Parag Mehta) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 03:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <1421.192.168.0.8.996747456.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: Hi Satyakam, well nagarjuna is in hyderabad currently. his father is seriously ill and nobody other than him knows much about the serves and the mailing lists he runs in hbcse. regards, parag mehta. PS: i'll try to check as to what is wrong in life ml. i have access to that. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:38:05 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Parag Mehta) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 03:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <1421.192.168.0.8.996747456.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: Hi, i don't think the mailing list of LIFE is down. i just checked and it seems to be working fine. regards, parag mehta From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:57:16 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:27:16 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. Message-ID: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> Hello ever since I posted the MEC link (of RMS' talk at MEC) to linuxtoday.com and LWN, there had been a lot of activity, and people around the world are trying to download the Ogg files. Unfortunately the MEC website is terribly slow, and I had been getting mails asking me to setup a fast mirror. Since I have nothing to do with the recordings (I have those files with me though, I downloaded it before announcing it to the world anticipating problem), I had been redirecting those requests to other people in the college, and also to ragu who is near the college. I would like to have those files put on some fast webspace setup somewhere. I can put those files on a CD and send them to anyone (though it will occupy only small space of that CD). It is around 85MB. Some people in the US are trying to make a mirror, but they too couldn't download the whole thing due to bad connection. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 11:37:57 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (kiron v) Date: 2 Aug 2001 11:37:57 -0000 Subject: [FSF-India] Hi Message-ID: <20010802113757.22686.qmail@mailFA2.rediffmail.com> Hello, I am a new member in this mailing list. I am Kiron, a 3rd year Computer Science & Engg. student of the College of Engineering, Trivandrum. _________________________________________________________ For Rs. 2,000,000 worth of Aptech scholarships click below http://events.rediff.com/aptechsch/scholarship.htm From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:23:19 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Santhosh=20Narayana?=) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:23:19 +0100 (BST) Subject: [FSF-India] Anybody doing Free Software Projects in India Message-ID: <20010802102319.19569.qmail@web8005.mail.in.yahoo.com> Hi there, I'm a newbie to the list. Doing V Semester, GDIT, IIIT-Hyd. In IIIT-Hyd, 70% of programming is in Linux. Establishment of FSF-India is a brilliant move. Now its time to open a GNU/Linux Software Development Pool with in the FSF-India. Yes we should actively spread GNU/Linux solutions in India for their mere reliability alone. Affordability is an added reason. It's been long we keep using developed packages from the west. SuSe has a total german distribution of GNU/Linux. Aryabhatta Linux, an ambitious project reg the same was started by some members of ilughyd. May be we need to coordinate and bring together all the GNU/Linux developers onto a common platform and start working on good projects. Linux is a big success in China. If such an initiative materializes, pls inform for we would surely join hands minds for the same. -- Santhosh(99055) santhosh@gdit.iiit.net "GNU/Linux opens doors, not windows" ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? For regular News updates go to http://in.news.yahoo.com From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 11:48:21 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:18:21 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 at 16:27, Ramakrishnan M wrote: I would like to have those files put on some fast webspace setup somewhere. I can put those files on a CD and send them to anyone (though it will occupy only small space of that CD). It is around 85MB. Some people in the US are trying to make a mirror, but they too couldn't download the whole thing due to bad connection. I can help, please send me the CD. We can put these in the FSF site which is an independent server in UK and fast. No worries on space, we have enough. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 12:39:24 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satish Babu) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 05:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> Message-ID: <20010802123924.17169.qmail@web5105.mail.yahoo.com> I can offer this space on our US server, provided an IP-based URL is OK (something like http://203.200.144.114/rms_talk.ogg). It'll take me until tomorrow to get permission from the Administrators, though. Ciao Satish --- Ramakrishnan M wrote: > I would like to have those files put on some fast > webspace setup somewhere. I > can put those files on a CD and send them to anyone > (though it will occupy only > small space of that CD). It is around 85MB. Some __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 12:59:58 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Jeffrin Jose T.) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:29:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> References: <3B665625.1A038AF2@nsc.ernet.in> <2136.192.168.0.2.996591370.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> Message-ID: <20010802182958.C1366@msservices.org> Hello , GNU/Linux Terminal Server for schools. A package for easy GNU/Linux terminal server installation. http://freshmeat.net/redir/termserv/16721/url_homepage/ For Debian GNU/Linux user's deb http://termserv.berlios.de/debian stable main can help. -- Jeffrin Jose T. Mission System's and Services. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 13:02:57 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:32:57 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Anybody doing Free Software Projects in India In-Reply-To: <20010802102319.19569.qmail@web8005.mail.in.yahoo.com>; from santhosh2708@yahoo.co.in on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:23:19AM +0100 References: <20010802102319.19569.qmail@web8005.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010802183257.A9602@mailandnews.com> On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:23:19AM +0100, Santhosh Narayana wrote: > Yes we should actively spread GNU/Linux solutions in > India for their mere reliability alone. Affordability > is an added reason. Freedom is the primary reason. Others just comes along. > > GNU/Linux. Aryabhatta Linux, an ambitious project reg > the same was started by some members of ilughyd. May > be we need to coordinate and bring together all the > GNU/Linux developers onto a common platform and start > working on good projects. Are you hinting towards a new distribution? > > If such an initiative materializes, pls inform for we > would surely join hands minds for the same. If you are talking of free software development, check out On the other hand, if you are talking of yet another distribution, is it really required? bye, pappu. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 13:27:57 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Mohit Agarwal) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:57:57 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> Message-ID: Today at 16:27 +0530, Ramakrishnan M wrote: : ever since I posted the MEC link (of RMS' talk at MEC) to linuxtoday.com and : LWN, there had been a lot of activity, and people around the world are trying : to download the Ogg files. Unfortunately the MEC website is terribly slow, and [...] : I would like to have those files put on some fast webspace setup somewhere. I Well, you can access the files at: http://ramanujan.aero.iisc.ernet.in/RMS-Jul2001/ ftp://ramanujan.aero.iisc.ernet.in/RMS-Jul2001/ mohit From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 13:48:31 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:18:31 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GPL to be tested in court (maybe) Message-ID: <15209.23087.239375.788934@mail.linux-delhi.org> http://www.linuxgram.com/article.pl?sid=01/07/24/1456206 [Excerpt] NuSphere Sued for Breaking GPL Tuesday, July 24th, 2001 by G2News Relations between NuSphere and MySQL have come a cropper. MySQL AB, the Swedish software house that developed the MySQL database, has terminated its distribution arrangement with NuSphere. NuSphere says it can?t. NuSphere is suing MySQL for breach of contract and MySQL has countersued for trademark infringement, slapping NuSphere with a secondary, but very incendiary, claim of breaking the GPL. Regards, -- Raju -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 13:54:03 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:24:03 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <3B6926FD.CB02FB5B@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: Hi, > What you should do is write to the heads of few colleges and schools about > Free software offering a talk and demonstration. We've actually got lot more work to do before that. I'd seriously suggest that the "GNU/Linux for Schools Project" be added to the FSF-I Projects page in the FSF-I website. We *need* volunteers. What I think we should do is decide upon a set of software most relevant to schools and pack it up into a CD. What should be included and what should'nt can be the subject of an interesting thread. I mean, some of the members of the list may have objections in including stuff whivh is not 'GPL'ed. But, I think that any Linux distro which does'nt have, say, Pine, is BAD (just a personal opinion, I *love* Pine). > Talk should stress more on the philosophy of 'freedom' and demo should > talk about the technical merits. If you can rent an LCD projector and > show something like 'gimp', even the diehard Window user will have > second thoughts. Oh, there are far too many things we can talk about, which I'm sure will impress the Windows guys. I was actually asked to give a talk on GNU/Linux during my summer job. Unfortunately, that got packed due to the political happenings in Tamilnadu that weekend :-(. I had prepared a good list of stuff to talk about. GIMP is definitely one of the best examples. Others would be the ability of Abiword, Gnumeric etc. to save files in PDF format, the X-window system, the KOffice suite (I have'nt really used it extensively, but it's cool. You can embed a doc in a chart etc.), the Apache webserver (which Microsoft still uses on the Hotmail servers) ... the list just keeps going on and on and ..... > If you don't talk about the philosophy behind 'free sofware', always > there will be people trying to compare MS with GNU/Linux by bringing > out irrelevent details. It is difficult to convince an average user > about the quality and reliability of an OS but he will easily see the > 'advantage ' of having two more fonts supported by his word processor. Yes...the main purpose is to spread the philosophy. But, we should'nt directly attack from the philosophy point. Talk about ths different software tools you get and how the "freedom" makes life happier to you. Also, a small comparison between the MS End User License Agreement and the GPL will drive the point home *very* elegantly :-) Please feel free to condemn my opinions. Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 14:12:34 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:42:34 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. Message-ID: Hello, As of now, I do not have access to a linux machine. Is there any way of accessing those files from my windows NT machine? Or is there any transcript available? Thanks. Ramesh. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 14:32:20 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:02:20 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <20010802123924.17169.qmail@web5105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 at 05:39, Satish Babu wrote: I can offer this space on our US server, provided an IP-based URL is OK (something like http://203.200.144.114/rms_talk.ogg). It'll take me until tomorrow to get permission from the Administrators, though. Our own http://www.gnu.org.in has sufficient space (2GB) is based in UK. We shall use it for the above purpose. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 15:16:34 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:46:34 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, R Sai Kiran wrote: > We've actually got lot more work to do before that. I'd seriously > suggest that the "GNU/Linux for Schools Project" be added to the > FSF-I Projects page in the FSF-I website. Yes, This is a great idea. A set of softwares for school should be identified and if possible made available in a CD for an easy install for the schools. We the Trivandrum GNU/Linux group had a chance to install the GNU system in one of the schools here some time before. In that school the person who was overall in charge was in favor of a GNU system but we had to face opposition from the staff, whose attitude was like "we had a great difficulty learning windows, and now you want us to forget all these and learn a new thing with lots of command huh? All the GNU stuff is great but find some one else to teach all these". This I believe will be the typical problem that we are going to face in most schools where the staff may not have core education in computers. She may be having basic qualification in some other subject with some certification in Computers and basic knowledge to use Winxx and MS Office, and computers may be one of the subj that is thought by her. So in order to over come this a good support structure is required. But things gets much easier if we can find people in the teacher community to take initative. > What I think we should do is decide upon a set of software most > relevant to schools and pack it up into a CD. What should be > included and what shouldn't can be the subject of an interesting > thread. Their are four uses of computer in Schools one to learn to effectively use a computer as a tool. In this skills like word processing, emailing, web browsing etc are imparted. Then the use of computer as a learning aid. The computer is used as a supplement to the various classes, assignments and other learning aids. Some of the tools required are multimedia CDs, Simulation of molecular structures etc.... Third the use of computer to learn to program a computer. The general languages databases etc.. Finally the use of computer as an office automation tool like any other office for the school admin. All the three may not be exclusive but require separate attention. These are some of my random thoughts... raj From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 15:44:17 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:14:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1248.192.168.0.2.996767057.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > Hello, > > As of now, I do not have access to a linux machine. Is there any way of > accessing those files from my windows NT machine? Or is there any > transcript available? Thanks. Winamp, maybe freeamp i din't check with that or may be good old media player (/me doub'ts if its calledby the same name now ). cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 15:58:14 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:28:14 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] Anybody doing Free Software Projects in India In-Reply-To: <20010802102319.19569.qmail@web8005.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, [iso-8859-1] Santhosh Narayana wrote: > I'm a newbie to the list. Doing V Semester, GDIT, > IIIT-Hyd. In IIIT-Hyd, 70% of programming is in Linux. Hello!! > Aryabhatta Linux, an ambitious project reg the same was started by > some members of ilughyd. We have started in Trivandrum a similar project to enable non trivial computation in local languages called project Indigo. (www.inapp.com/tuxila). We stated off on Jan and I was working on rendering Malayalam using Pango. Devanagiri and Tamil already has modules to take care of this. Our final aim is to have a distribution of GNU system where it is possible to use Local languages, like the German SuSe. I had a chance to talk to Ms Amba Kulkarni of IIIT-Hyd about this and she was interested in doing some localization for Star Office. May be you should talk to her if you are interested. CDAC was also interested in getting Mozilla localized. As of our own progress we were going pretty nicely but most of the core team members were involved in the Inauguration of FSF India and thus the project suffered. We are starting from where we left off now. Hope fully you can expect some result from us soon raj From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 14:15:19 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:45:19 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] [Fwd: RE: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer] Message-ID: <3B696077.57B5466B@eth.net> hi What should we obey. Indian Laws or US Laws ? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:03:39 -0400 From: "Peter" To: "Paul Callahan" , Probably they have some part-time students sitting there and sending out already made e-mails :-))) Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org My response to Senator Botster: Dear Senator Boxer: I appreciate your timely response. You may be unaware that my letter did not concern Napster, but in fact concerned Dmitry Sklyarov, a visiting scholar who is being held in federal custody by our government. His home is in Russia and he is currently being held far from his family despite having committed no crime in his own country, despite that he poses no danger to our society, and despite the fact that his original accusers Adobe Software have disavowed any support of his arrest. As a computer scientist who has presented research both here and abroad, I take a great interest in our treatment of visiting computer researchers. I also consider the anti-circumvention provision of DMCA to be an unworkable law, and its criminal prosecution to be a gross injustice. If you have not done so already, please inform yourself on the implications of DMCA to the longstanding notion of fair use in copyright law. Rep. Rick Boucher (D-VA) has written on this topic: http://www.house.gov/boucher/docs/fairuse.htm I eagerly await any relevant information you can supply regarding your stance on DMCA and the Dmitry Sklyarov case in particular. Sincerely, Paul Callahan --- Paul Callahan wrote: > Gotta wonder what kind of bot they have responding > to > Senator Boxer's email. Here's the response to a > letter > I sent "regrading" Sklyarov and DMCA: > > Dear Mr. Callahan: > > Thank you for your recent communication > regrading Napster. As you may already know, both > the United States District Court and a United > States Court of Appeals have ruled that Napster > encourages and assists copyright infringement of > copyrighted music. This decision restates the > important fact that in our country we value > property rights, whether its music that a writer > has created or the car that you drive. Neither > can legally be taken from you without > compensation. > > I strongly support the advancement of > technology and innovation on the Internet and > desire that all consumers be able to get music in > the electronic marketplace. But such advances must > also accompany respect for others' creations. > Those who invest in the creation of music, whether > it be an artist or record label, deserve to be paid > for the use of their music. > > The technology Napster employs holds great > promise. It is my hope that such peer to peer > technology will be available legitimately and that > the idea that Napster has invented will become > available to consumers in a legal manner very soon. > > Thank you for contacting me on this important > issue. > > --Paul > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 15:39:27 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 21:09:27 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Anybody doing Free Software Projects in India References: <20010802102319.19569.qmail@web8005.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B69742F.AFEA9B78@eth.net> hi I think we should have a word processor in Indian Languages. M.Balakrishna Pillai Santhosh Narayana wrote: > > Hi there, > I'm a newbie to the list. Doing V Semester, GDIT, > IIIT-Hyd. In IIIT-Hyd, 70% of programming is in Linux. > Establishment of FSF-India is a brilliant move. > Now its time to open a GNU/Linux Software Development > Pool with in the FSF-India. > > Yes we should actively spread GNU/Linux solutions in > India for their mere reliability alone. Affordability > is an added reason. > > It's been long we keep using developed packages from > the west. SuSe has a total german distribution of > GNU/Linux. Aryabhatta Linux, an ambitious project reg > the same was started by some members of ilughyd. May > be we need to coordinate and bring together all the > GNU/Linux developers onto a common platform and start > working on good projects. > > Linux is a big success in China. > > If such an initiative materializes, pls inform for we > would surely join hands minds for the same. > > -- > Santhosh(99055) > santhosh@gdit.iiit.net > "GNU/Linux opens doors, not windows" > > ____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > For regular News updates go to http://in.news.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 16:21:36 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:51:36 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> References: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> Message-ID: <20010802215136.A2040@debianut.ekmnet> [Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 04:27:16PM +0530] Ramakrishnan M. : > ragu who is near the college Had been to the MeC and started an rsync session for the .dk mirror today at about 1530 HRS IST. You have to follow up with Ole and get a feedback from him as to what is happening. Please ask him whether his files have been synced properly. Shall I send a CD copy given to me by the MeC to Radi tomorrow ? -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Keeping the Air-Waves FREE...........Amateur Radio Keeping your Software FREE.........the GNU Project Keeping the W W W FREE....Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 16:50:44 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:20:44 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <20010802215136.A2040@debianut.ekmnet> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 at 21:51, Raghavendra Bhat wrote: Shall I send a CD copy given to me by the MeC to Radi tomorrow? That would be fine. But I copied Cochin talk from the CTAN mirror to our site and is now available at: http://www.gnu.org.in/download/RMS-Cochin/ -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 17:18:11 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:48:11 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, > Yes, This is a great idea. A set of softwares for school should be > identified and if possible made available in a CD for an easy install > for the schools. For this again, I'd suggest Red Hat 6.2 as the base development flavour. Anaconda really makes installation very peaceful. > So in order to over come this a good support structure is required. > But things gets much easier if we can find people in the teacher > community to take initative. We can also place a lot more emphasis on the GUI based configuration tools. Gone are the days when you *HAD* to use a shell to do any administrative task. There are GUI applications to do most of this work. For example, GnoRPM, Disk Management, User Management, GnoSamba etc. The interface is also fairly intuitive. It's just upto us guys to keep the "geekness" aside and demonstrate the use of these tools :-). Seriously, most experienced users (includes me too) tend to use the shell a lot more than the GUI. It just gives the newbie a feeling that he has to learn lots of new "commands". Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 18:04:02 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:34:02 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, R Sai Kiran wrote: > For this again, I'd suggest Red Hat 6.2 as the base development > flavour. Anaconda really makes installation very peaceful. Hm.... Debian is also cool. But these are the last decisions to be made. Can we all work together to identify a list of softwares that can be used in schools both for basic use as well as as teaching aids raj From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 17:38:05 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 23:08:05 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fastwebspace. References: Message-ID: <3B698FFD.2CFA7892@eth.net> Hello You cannot, unless GNU/Linux machine permits you. Install Debian GNU/Linux or any other distribution. It is very easy. Ofcourse you have to read the documentation, for which Debian is the best. Here in Kochi a +1 student - vipil_vicky@rediffmail.com - had installed GNU/Linux without any personal help. I think now he is learning various GNU utilities and programmes. M.Balakrishna Pillai lramesh@in.ibm.com wrote: > > Hello, > > As of now, I do not have access to a linux machine. Is there any way of > accessing those files from my windows NT machine? Or is there any > transcript available? Thanks. > > Ramesh. > > _______________________________________________ > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 17:37:40 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 23:07:40 +0530 Subject: [Life] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: <01080215274304.00761@vivek> Message-ID: <3B698FE4.4F2C6D55@eth.net> Dear Vivek It is regarding a computing utilities and operating system that a computer user can use, modify and distribute without spending money on software licences and breaking laws of any country in the world. You can setup anything including WEB servers, supercomputers etc without paying anything for the software licence and they are GNU (www.gnu.org www.gnu.org.in [india chapter]) working on the 'top' of Linux kernel. M.Balakrishna Pillai Vivek Agarwal wrote: > > Hi, > > this is vivek agarwal. I am the CEO of egurucool.com. We offer a range > courses to the students in schools through an intranet offering. This is a NT > based application..please let me know the details of what exactly you are > proposing for schools and let me see if we can hook in any way.. > > vivek > > On Tuesday 31 July 2001 11:28 pm, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > Hi, There's a LIFE mailing list, running from Mumbai. Contact > > life@mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in It's run from the Tata Institute of Fundamental > > Research by Prof Nagarajuna. > > Do send me your draft proposal too. Frederick Noronha, Freelance > > Journalist, Goa. > > > > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Satyakam Goswami wrote: > > > hi, > > > i am working on a draft proposal for use of GNU/Linux in Schools > > > anybody intrested in these kind of projects or if they are already > > > working on something like this i would be glad to learn about it. > > > > > > cheers > > > S.Goswami > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------- > > > Archean Infotech > > > Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar > > > Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com > > > Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 > > > Mobile:9849016667 > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > This email was sent using SquirrelMail. > > > "Webmail for nuts!" > > > http://squirrelmail.org/ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india > > > > _______________________________________________ > > LIFE mailing list > > LIFE@mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in > > http://mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in/mailman/listinfo/life > _______________________________________________ > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 18:02:10 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:32:10 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] What goes in In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, > > Their are four uses of computer in Schools Very interesting classification indeed. Essentially, > 1. Tools - word processors,email clients,browsers etc > 2. Learning aid - multimedia, simulation stuff etc > 3. Development - compilers etc > 4. Automation tool As I said earlier, I think this topic deserves a separate thread. I've taken the liberty of strting this one. As a first shot, I'd suggest the following stuff: Tools ------ 1. Open Office, Emacs, Vim 2. Evolution, Pine(?), Mutt 3. Netscape(?), Konqueror, Lynx, Opera Learning Aids -------------- 1. Scilab 2. Gnuplot Really dont know what to put here. Any suggestions?? Learning reminds me, we need to put in a lot of docs. Probably a few guides like the SAG, installation guide, a few good HOW-TOs etc. Development ------------ 1. K-Develop 2. All the typical compilers/interpreters anyone would ever want C,C++,Perl,Python,PHP .... 3. JDK 4. Forte4Java from Sun - IDE for developing GUI based Java progs Automation tools ----------------- No idea again .... suggestions please!! Plus, Ofcourse --------------- * Apache * MySQL/Postgres - I use MySQL and I love it * XMMS * Everybuddy * Obviously, GNOME + KDE - but, which versions?? Ximian and KDE 2.0 are both *very* resource hungry and we're talking of schools with slow computers. What should be done ? Let's pile up the list of softwares. If you think there's something in the list above which should not be included, let me know. And I'm really very sure there's far too much stuff I've missed out. Please keep adding to the list. Having more really does'nt hurt. We can always have a 2-CD distribution. The point is to give the people everything they'll ever need on the CD(s) so they'll never have to download anything on their dial-up lines. Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 15:52:27 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:22:27 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: ; from ch98086@che.iitm.ac.in on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 07:24:03PM +0530 References: <3B6926FD.CB02FB5B@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: <20010802212227.A10536@mailandnews.com> On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 07:24:03PM +0530, R Sai Kiran wrote: > > I mean, some of the members of the list may have objections in including > stuff whivh is not 'GPL'ed. But, I think that any Linux distro which > does'nt have, say, Pine, is BAD (just a personal opinion, I *love* Pine). The answer to this can be found in any of RMS's speech on free software. People who have objections in including non GPL'ed stuff (me for eg.) do have valid reason for that. The primary objective here is freedom and not utility or fancy features. As RMS says, If we set our eyes on a goal, and work towards it, we will finally (may take a long time) reach it. But on the way, if we see some temptations and change our direction, we will never reach our goal (which is freedom). If we get addicted to at least one non free software, and can't live without it, all the free software can't help us. For eg: take the above quoted fact. One person can't avoid using a non free software called pine even when there exists free software like mutt that provides similar functionality. So how can we help some one out of the non free world by giving them alternate non free software to use. Recomending pine instead of outlook express is simply switching wendors of non free software. This will boil down to just anti microsoft sentiments and won't help any one achieve freedom. Please note that the goal of FSF and GNU project is not shutting down microsoft. So if we consider that it is bad to use Internet explorer, it is equally bad to use netscape communicator (not mozilla). > Yes...the main purpose is to spread the philosophy. But, we > should'nt directly attack from the philosophy point. Why >>attack<< in the first place? If people don't understand the word freedom, we can ask them to read their 10th std history text books. I once again stress that the mission is not to convert all windows users to GNU/Linux users. The mission is to tell people about FREE software and help them to start using FREE software. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 19:04:23 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:34:23 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] What goes in In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2037.192.168.0.2.996779063.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > > Hi, > >> >> Their are four uses of computer in Schools > > Very interesting classification indeed. Essentially, > >> 1. Tools - word processors,email clients,browsers etc >> 2. Learning aid - multimedia, simulation stuff etc >> 3. Development - compilers etc >> 4. Automation tool > > As I said earlier, I think this topic deserves a separate > thread. I've taken the liberty of strting this one. As a first shot, I'd > suggest the following stuff: > > Tools > ------ > 1. Open Office, Emacs, Vim > 2. Evolution, Pine(?), Mutt > 3. Netscape(?), Konqueror, Lynx, Opera Mozilla > > Learning Aids > -------------- > 1. Scilab > 2. Gnuplot > > Really dont know what to put here. Any suggestions?? > > Learning reminds me, we need to put in a lot of docs. Probably a > few guides like the SAG, installation guide, a few good HOW-TOs etc. Whole of the LDP ,this will go on the intranet. > > Development > ------------ > 1. K-Develop > 2. All the typical compilers/interpreters anyone would ever want > C,C++,Perl,Python,PHP .... pascal is widely used, cobal too.. > 3. JDK > 4. Forte4Java from Sun - IDE for developing GUI based Java progs i think we can find better alternative than that Free Ones i mean. > > Automation tools > ----------------- > No idea again .... suggestions please!! what automation tools are we talkin about here... > > Plus, Ofcourse > --------------- > * Apache > * MySQL/Postgres - I use MySQL and I love it Mysql with uncertain future and licensing issues we better avoid it. > * XMMS > * Everybuddy > * Obviously, GNOME + KDE - but, which versions?? Ximian and KDE > 2.0 are both *very* resource hungry and we're talking of schools with > slow computers. What should be done ? blackbox,fvwm or windowmaker > > Let's pile up the list of softwares. If you think there's > something in the list above which should not be included, let me know. And > I'm really very sure there's far too much stuff I've missed out. Please > keep adding to the list. Having more really does'nt hurt. We can always > have a 2-CD distribution. The point is to give the people everything > they'll ever need on the CD(s) so they'll never have to download anything > on their dial-up lines. i think they are pretty much there in any distribution ,its just a matter of showing them where and howto of the stuff + the FREEDOM. cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 01:45:24 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:15:24 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: References: <20010802215136.A2040@debianut.ekmnet> Message-ID: <20010803071524.A2945@debianut.ekmnet> [Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:20:44PM +0530] Radhakrishnan: > I copied Cochin talk from the CTAN mirror to our site > and is now available at: > > http://www.gnu.org.in/download/RMS-Cochin/ An md5checksum file has to be generated and put up along-with the Ogg-Vorbis files. This would be most helpful for people wanting to check the files after downloading the Kochi talks. -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Keeping the Air-Waves FREE...........Amateur Radio Keeping your Software FREE.........the GNU Project Keeping the W W W FREE....Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 03:06:26 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Abhas Abhinav) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:36:26 +0430 (AFT) Subject: [FSF-India] Anybody doing Free Software Projects in India In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Rajkumar S. wrote... >to talk to Ms Amba Kulkarni of IIIT-Hyd about this and she was >interested in doing some localization for Star Office. May be you >should talk to her if you are interested. Guys at NCST, Bangalore are already working on this and have been at it for at least three months now - their project is called vartalaap - and its about have an indianised version of OpenOffice. The last time i talked to one of the developers, they had mnaged to compile the wholeof Open Office on their own and were getting down to understanding the code and customising it... IIT, Madras also has a similar project where they are trying to localise the interface - i don't know what their approach is but they are also doing something about it.... The NCST guys are pretty much ahead on this, though.. cheers, abhas. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 03:30:58 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 09:00:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. References: Message-ID: <3B6A1AF2.F75BB075@ti.com> Radhakrishnan C V wrote: > > That would be fine. > > But I copied Cochin talk from the CTAN mirror to our site and is now > available at: > > http://www.gnu.org.in/download/RMS-Cochin/ Thanks to everyone. I have intimated the people who asked me for the files the new locations. Ragu, can you anyway send the files to CVR? Because as you said, the md5sums may differ. It's better to have the original files hosted at gnu.org.in website. I have also intimated audio-recordings@gnu.org the location of the files, so that they can mirror them. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:51:12 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:21:12 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: ; from mohit@cfdlab.aero.iisc.ernet.in on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:19:30AM +0530 References: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: <20010802162112.A778@orion> On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:19:30AM +0530, Mohit Agarwal wrote: > M$ windoughs `word' perfectly! Have you ever heard of something called > TeX or LaTeX? A program called `lyx' -- distributed under the GNU GPL -- LyX cant be used in a completely Free System since it links with non-free XForms libs. There is a KDE version available may be thats free. Abiword can export in LaTeX. Arun. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 04:50:07 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:20:07 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: Message-ID: <3B6A2D7F.36BACCF8@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5F9B306ED8281CABF44E61D9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit R Sai Kiran wrote: > Hi, > > > What you should do is write to the heads of few colleges and schools about > > Free software offering a talk and demonstration. > > We've actually got lot more work to do before that. I'd seriously > suggest that the "GNU/Linux for Schools Project" be added to the FSF-I > Projects page in the FSF-I website. We *need* volunteers. What I think we > should do is decide upon a set of software most relevant to schools and What I wrote is based on my personal experience. We cannot decide what is needed for the scools and colleges on a mailing list or in a closed group. Two years back I gave a talk on GNU/Linux at a college in Calicut. Demonstrated the installation procedure. Got few of the teachers interested after a while. Dept. of physics needs to do some work in C -- it is in the university syllabus -- and they were using Borland C++ IDE. I send them a copy of RHIDE IDE and they were about to change but another problem cropped up. The output of their programs require graphics. It is simple but they have to learn X-window graphics to do that. I have been doing all my work using Motif but something like gtk, with glade, seems to be a better choice today. Now i am trying to write some small example programs to get them started. The point i am trying to make is, you have to interact with the schools and colleges first to find out what they need. That must be provided if they are concerned about them. The approch of "Take this package. this is good for you" may not work. You need a very practical approach here. I am developing programs for physics research on GNU/Linux systems from 1994 onwards and have a strong attachment to it. But that is not a selling point. We need to help others solving their problems using free software along with talking about the philosophy of free software. I am attaching the C code I received and need to be converted into X-Windows. I dont think going back to SVGA LIB is a nice idea. If anybody think this particular topic is taking too much of this list please dont hesitate to point out. ajith > pack it up into a CD. What should be included and what should'nt can be > the subject of an interesting thread. I mean, some of the members of the > list may have objections in including stuff whivh is not 'GPL'ed. But, I > think that any Linux distro which does'nt have, say, Pine, is BAD (just a > personal opinion, I *love* Pine). > > > Talk should stress more on the philosophy of 'freedom' and demo should > > talk about the technical merits. If you can rent an LCD projector and > > show something like 'gimp', even the diehard Window user will have > > second thoughts. > > Oh, there are far too many things we can talk about, which I'm > sure will impress the Windows guys. I was actually asked to give a talk on > GNU/Linux during my summer job. Unfortunately, that got packed due to the > political happenings in Tamilnadu that weekend :-(. I had prepared a good > list of stuff to talk about. GIMP is definitely one of the best > examples. Others would be the ability of Abiword, Gnumeric etc. to save > files in PDF format, the X-window system, the KOffice suite (I have'nt > really used it extensively, but it's cool. You can embed a doc in a chart > If you gave a demo today using Kword, you are in for surprices. It dumps core very often. Great features but more work needed to make it reliable. Abiword is small but very reliable. > etc.), the Apache webserver (which Microsoft still uses on the Hotmail > servers) ... the list just keeps going on and on and ..... > > > If you don't talk about the philosophy behind 'free sofware', always > > there will be people trying to compare MS with GNU/Linux by bringing > > out irrelevent details. It is difficult to convince an average user > > about the quality and reliability of an OS but he will easily see the > > 'advantage ' of having two more fonts supported by his word processor. > > Yes...the main purpose is to spread the philosophy. But, we > should'nt directly attack from the philosophy point. Talk about ths > different software tools you get and how the "freedom" makes life happier > to you. Also, a small comparison between the MS End User License Agreement > and the GPL will drive the point home *very* elegantly :-) > > Please feel free to condemn my opinions. > > Regards, > > Sai > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Recursion n: > See Recursion > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 > > _______________________________________________ > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india --------------5F9B306ED8281CABF44E61D9 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------5F9B306ED8281CABF44E61D9-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 05:10:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:40:08 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] gtk help Message-ID: <3B6A3230.BF167E4@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F77F8E5E7110A8E56215B3DB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello can anyone help in converting this to gtk undel GNU/Linux. ajith --------------F77F8E5E7110A8E56215B3DB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="cfm.c" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="cfm.c" //PROG.001: MOTION OF A PARTICLE IN CENTRAL FORCE FILELD // Program name: CFM.C #include #include #include #define PI 3.141 main() { int gd=DETECT,gm,maxx,maxy,xpt,ypt,i; float vel,dir_rad,dir_theta,ax,ay,t,Tmax,dt=0.01; float vx,vy,x,y,dx,dy,dvx,dvy,r,k=-25,m=0.10; float accel(float,float,float,float); printf("\nEnter position x,y "); scanf("%f,%f",&x,&y); printf("\nEnter velocity and direction "); scanf("%f,%f",&vel,&dir_theta); printf("\nEnter max. time of study (s)"); scanf("%f",&Tmax); dir_rad=dir_theta*PI/180.0; vx=vel*cos(dir_rad); vy=vel*sin(dir_rad); initgraph(&gd,&gm,"d:\\tc\\bgi"); maxx=getmaxx(); maxy=getmaxy(); setcolor(GREEN); setviewport(120,40,520,440,1); rectangle(0,0,400,400); putpixel(200,200,RED); for(i=0;i<=400;i=i+5) { putpixel(i,200,BLUE); putpixel(200,i,BLUE); } for(t=0;t<=Tmax;t=t+dt) { r=sqrt(x*x + y*y); ax=accel(x,r,k,m); ay=accel(y,r,k,m); vx=vx+ax*dt; vy=vy+ay*dt; x=x+vx*dt; y=y+vy*dt; xpt=(x+20)*400/40; ypt=400-(y+20)*400/40; putpixel(xpt,ypt,YELLOW); delay(10); } printf("\n PARTICLE MOVING IN A CENTRAL FORCE FIELD"); printf("\nk=%4.2f(SIu)",k); printf("\nV=%4.2fm/s",vel); printf("\nang=%4.2fd",dir_theta); printf("\nmass=%4.2fkg",m); sound(100); delay(100); nosound(); getch(); restorecrtmode(); } // Modify this function for differet types of // central forces float accel(float a, float d, float fk, float mass) { float acc; acc=fk*a/(mass*d*d*d); return(acc); } --------------F77F8E5E7110A8E56215B3DB Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------F77F8E5E7110A8E56215B3DB-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 06:02:43 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:32:43 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Sublists Message-ID: It seems that we need to have more sublists based on themes now under extensive deliberation like: 1. Free Software in Education 2. Programming and technical 3. Projects, developer coordination 4. General (philosophy, events, licence, etc) 5. ... I would request the opinion of all on the question of whether we shall have separate lists for the above and other items that may come up in future. The point is that some of our subscribers might be least interested to receive post that has no direct influence in their lives and we run the risk of unsubscribing owing to the vast number of mails to their boxes. Sublists have yet another distinction of systematically separating the topics and anyone who wants to see the archives in future can easily locate the posts relating to a specific theme. We might keep the root list as a general discussion forum and an announcement list for the major resolutions made in the sublists and other matters relevant to the Free Software community. Any thoughts? -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 06:14:43 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (KG Kumar) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:44:43 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] RMS profiled Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010803114243.00a4ec60@mail.myiris.com> --=======64402212======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-13544852; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed RMS has been profiled in the 30 July issue of BusinessWorld (2 pages) and in the current, 3 August issue of the Malayalam weekly, Malayalam Varika (5.5 pages). --=======64402212======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-13544852 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/01 --=======64402212=======-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 09:00:38 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Sojish K) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 02:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] unsuscribe In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010803114243.00a4ec60@mail.myiris.com> Message-ID: <20010803090038.18365.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> please unsuscribe me from mailing list ===== //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // SOJISH K. // // homepage: www.sojishk.com // //--------------------------------------------------------// // "Ki tikk gayi ho jab nazar kisiki manzil // // Use hai wasta kya rasto.n ke dero.n se." // //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 09:05:31 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:35:31 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <20010802212227.A10536@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: Hi, > and not utility or fancy features. As RMS says, If we set our eyes on > a goal, and work towards it, we will finally (may take a long time) > reach it. But on the way, if we see some temptations and change our > direction, we will never reach our goal (which is freedom). > Please note that the goal of FSF and GNU project is not shutting down > microsoft. So if we consider that it is bad to use Internet explorer, > it is equally bad to use netscape communicator (not mozilla). Well, I have a slightly different point of view here. I claim that, you first get the people to start using the GNU/Linux systems, and very soon, the whole *philosophy* behind the movement becomes clear to them. The GNU + GPL is a rather new thing. We are in the initial phases of a huge revolution to come. I believe, the best idea now is to get people to start using GNU/Linux systems. I'm *NOT* supporting non-"free" software. I'm just saying that, we'll give them the GNU stuff. But, let's not pack the non-free stuff either. Probably, we can put all the non-free software in a separate path, or, the second CD, if we need to go for a 2-CD distro. Please note, all I'm saying is we really need people to start using GNU/Linux first. When I first started off with Linux, I had no idea of the philosophy, just knew that it was free (in the free beer sense of "free"). Over a short period of time after that, I came to know the background stuff, the philosopy. And now, I'm pretty much in love with it. It's the same with most people, I guess. I convinced one of my Professors here in campus to start using GNU/Linux. Initially, I just gave him a brief idea of the philosophy and told him that all tools he'd require (like code-libraries etc.) are free. Once he started using it, he really "felt" the difference. He advises students to use GNU/Linux these days. > > Yes...the main purpose is to spread the philosophy. But, > > we should'nt directly attack from the philosophy point. > Why >>attack<< in the first place? If people don't understand the > word freedom, we can ask them to read their 10th std history text > books. I once again stress that the mission is not to convert all > windows users to GNU/Linux users. The mission is to tell people > about FREE software and help them to start using FREE software. I totally accept. But, converting the Windows users to GNU/Linus users is the first step in making them use FREE software. Just my thoughts. Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 09:25:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:55:06 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <014b01c14b7e$93e97e40$d600a8c0@administrator> Message-ID: Hi, > Dont we feel this is the way (by using GUI exesively) Proprieteries have > handicapped lots of users around world? > I agree that we are trying to make it easier for them to use the Free > Software with it , but on the other hand we are making it more possible for > them not to look under the Hood, and the the real freedom lies there..... Nice arguement :-) Well, the point I was trying to make is, let's first get the users to feel to surface and they'll dig deeper themselves. Once you start using powerful applications, *LOTS* of them, which come free of cost (free as in "free" beer), you'd definitely wonder why so many people are giving their code free, even allowing people to make modifications to it. Further, there's the big question on "How does the developer survive". Atleast a good percentage of people would go to the GNU website to find out more. This curiosity, plus a realisation of the power of the "Free Software" philosophy would attract the people more. All these are just MY OPINIONS. Further, more the GNU users, more would be the funding, development etc. So, making the new user comfortable with the OS is central to the whole plan. > Again havnt prop. retained their command over the users by simply not > allowing them to use the "commands" on computers? More people I know have learnt their GNU/Linux principles, administration etc. reading the docs rather than attending Courses in professional coaching academies. It's the other way around for Windows. When the user suddenly realises there's something he's not able to do with the GUI, he'd get back to the docs. As long as the GUI does the job it is intended to, I think it's performing well and there's no reason to condemn it. It only makes it easier for people to *start* using GNU. When the needs increase, and if they find it necessary, they'll definitely get back to the command line. Again, these are just, my thoughts and I'd love to know others' opinions. Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 09:36:15 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:06:15 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <3B6A2D7F.36BACCF8@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: Hi, > The point i am trying to make is, you have to interact with the schools and > colleges first to find out what they need. That must be provided if they are > concerned about them. The approch of "Take this package. this is good for you" > may not work. You need a very practical approach here. That's a very neat suggestion. What's on my mind right now?? - as you suggested, I think we should first get the requirements right. How many people do we have here, and from which parts of the country. To my knowledge, there are a good chunk of people from Trivandrum and I'm from Chennai. What we could do is, decide upon a standard format questionnaire kind of a thing. A few simple questions like what software is currently being used in their machines (the most obvious one ofcourse, but I'm sure we can get a lot more). Basically, what we could call a "market survey" :-). Identify the top, say 10 or 20 schools in cities where we have volunteers and actually, PHYSICALLY go to the school give them the forms and get the responses. I think email/snail mail will not work. It might be a little painful for the volunteers, but, I think it's necessary. I'm ready to do this in Chennai. Any better ideas .. or think this one is stupid, please let me know. Also, anybody and everybody on the list interested in helping, please come forward and tell us. We need more ideas. The way the discussions are progressing, we might be onto something *GOOD*. :-) Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 10:49:23 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:19:23 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: ; from ch98086@che.iitm.ac.in on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 02:35:31PM +0530 References: <20010802212227.A10536@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: <20010803161923.A18113@mailandnews.com> On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 02:35:31PM +0530, R Sai Kiran wrote: > > Well, I have a slightly different point of view here. I claim > that, you first get the people to start using the GNU/Linux systems, and > very soon, the whole *philosophy* behind the movement becomes clear to > them. I have seen this strategy fail miserably in many places. Now a days you have many >>Linux<< users groups in India who openly refuse to listen or talk about GNU or freedom. There are lots mailing lists where you will be banned if you try to speak of GNU or freedom (I would have been) thrown out of by now if I this thread was on one of them). The moment we leave out the phylosophy and go after just the technology, we loose all our strength. > The GNU + GPL is a rather new thing. We are in the initial phases of > a huge revolution to come. This revolution is atleast 17 years old. It is growing at a good pace. Better grow slowly rather than explode and die away. > I believe, the best idea now is to get people > to start using GNU/Linux systems. I'm *NOT* supporting > non-"free" software. I'm just saying that, we'll give them the GNU > stuff. But, let's not pack the non-free stuff either. Probably, we can put > all the non-free software in a separate path, or, the second CD, if we > need to go for a 2-CD distro. This is a good idea and is actually practiced by the debian distribution. But I still believe that stressing on phylosophy is the only way we can promote free software. By not doing so, we may be able to get a much bigger number of users but the majority will never even think of the freedom part. Please note that for the majority of people in India, getting the software they need without paying money is no big deal. So if we don't put phylosophy first, our attempts will reduce to a mere anti microsoft campaign. > > Please note, all I'm saying is we really need people to start > using GNU/Linux first. When I first started off with Linux, I had no idea > of the philosophy, just knew that it was free (in the free beer sense of > "free"). Over a short period of time after that, I came to know the > background stuff, the philosopy. And now, I'm pretty much in love with > it. It's the same with most people, I guess. NO. It is not so for the majority. The example of ilug is applicable here. > I convinced one of my Professors here in campus to start using GNU/Linux. > Initially, I just gave him a brief idea of the philosophy and told him that > all tools he'd require (like code-libraries etc.) are free. Once he > started using it, he really "felt" the difference. He advises students to > use GNU/Linux these days. Does he stress on the phylosophy now? If no, then we have a loss. If yes, may be because this person is a Professor (thinks a lot), he found the true value. But what about 90% of college students who just want to watch vcds and ** stuff? They don't and won't care about phylosophy unless we start with that. > I totally accept. But, converting the Windows users to GNU/Linus > users is the first step in making them use FREE software. Can't we try the other way round? ie. we make them free software users and so they automatically become non non-free software users. I insist on this because the failure of the other strategy that I have noticed. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 10:54:50 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:24:50 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] RMS' speech at Kochi Message-ID: <3B6A82FA.2F470A69@ti.com> Mirrors of RMS speech in India 2001-07-28 * http://bubblegum.homeip.net/rks/ (not updated) * http://ole.tange.dk/linux/rms/ * http://www.sslug.dk/~tange/ole.tange.dk/linux/rms/ * http://cvs.sslug.dk/~tange/ole.tange.dk/linux/rms/ Note that these are the exact replica of the files at MEC with no md5 checksum errors. The link is pretty fast. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 11:02:43 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Modern Book Centre, TVM) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:32:43 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] unsuscribe References: <20010803090038.18365.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B6A84D3.49E46F22@techpark.net> unsubsribe modern@techpark.net From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 11:11:05 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:41:05 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. References: Message-ID: <3B6A86C9.26C0A5E2@ti.com> Radhakrishnan C V wrote: > > Our own http://www.gnu.org.in has sufficient space (2GB) is based in > UK. We shall use it for the above purpose. Just out of curiosity, I remember reading somewhere that the physical location of *.{com,org,net}.in should be India? do we violate this? I am not sure whether this rule is changed now. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 11:46:32 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:16:32 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <3B6A86C9.26C0A5E2@ti.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 at 16:41, Ramakrishnan M wrote: Radhakrishnan C V wrote: > > Our own http://www.gnu.org.in has sufficient space (2GB) is based in > UK. We shall use it for the above purpose. Just out of curiosity, I remember reading somewhere that the physical location of *.{com,org,net}.in should be India? do we violate this? I am not sure whether this rule is changed now. Server can be anywhere, but the primary nameserver where the entry of the server is made *should* be in India. Previously it was insisted for the secondary name server too located in India, but now NCST advise to have it in some other part of the world. They seem to have learnt a lot from experience.:) -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 13:32:19 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (ravi gangavarapu) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:32:19 Subject: [FSF India] Re: Contents of FSF-India digest..." Message-ID: Hi Everybody: Sai's experience is interesting. Some suggestions regarding spreading GNU/Linux in schools. It is a good idea to develop interface with all the educational bodies (both governament and non-governament such as teachers federations or organizations including non-profit organizations). Explain them (by sending letters) how it is costly to use commercial software and the effect they have on Indian foreign currency reserves (note that Microsoft is from US and you pay for it in foriegn currency) and how they can save money on license fee. The focus should be on using free software to avoid legal problems with the use of unlicensed software. Also, highlight free community support they get for free software. Explain how free software like Apache is robust on security front compared to Microsoft web server becuase of open source and community activity. Ravi Gangavarapu. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 19:55:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 01:25:52 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Media materials on RMS's visit. Message-ID: <20010804012552.E1038@orion> Hi friends, It would be very helpful if the members of this list can get media materials relating to RMS's visit for FSF India, especially outside Kerala. Those who can send them please inform before sending so that we can avoid duplicate efforts. KG could you please inform about the materials we already have. Arun. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 09:00:11 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Varun Sinha) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:30:11 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] GNU/Linux in Schools from a guy in school References: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> <20010802162112.A778@orion> Message-ID: <001101c11c9d$2714c3c0$0cc96565@dreammachine> Hi all!! I have been following the discussion about GNU systems in schools with great interest, but haven't been able to put my two cents in, cuz I'm in XII and the week gets really busy. But it's a Friday afternoon, so I can give myself a little time off...:-) I think GNU systems would be a great idea for a simple reason: the cost. Yes, I know that it is mainly about freedom and I greatly appreciate that. But the truth is my principal isn't all that concerned about free software; he is much more interested in setting up a full-fledged computer system at a fraction of the cost it would cost him to do so using proprietary software (we don't have one right now). Besides the fact that the software itself is a lot more cost-effective, the hardware costs would also be greatly reduced. I think another interesting effect it would have would be that awareness would be created among students about free software. What better ways to learn about it's philosophy that using it itself!! The only downside I can think of is training and support. People who know about proprietary software are dime-a-dozen but people with knowledge of GNU systems are not that easy to find. Or as least that is my perception, I may be wrong. I think the reason the KVs teach Fox-Pro and Word and Excel et al is because it is so easy to find people to teach them. GNU systems are a whole new world for vast majority and I really don't know how easy it would be to find people to teach. One idea is that people from a local GNU user group could come and teach, but is that a feasible idea? The point about using GUI for most tasks seems to make sense. It would be alot easier for people, especially teachers (students might be able to) to work with GUI. I think they would rather spend their time on work rather than learning shell commands (I'm not saying that learning shell commands is not "work", but I feel that they might find it slightly wasteful)I'm sure that at some point some of them might become quite proficient with the systems, but most of them would be more comfortable with a GUI. My entire opinion is based mainly with my school in mind, maybe the situation is different in other places. Just some of my thoughts. Please let me know if you think I am wrong. And also let me know if you think I am right.....;-) Regards, Varun Sinha -------------------------------------------------------------- Cosmic Information and Technology Ltd, Ahmedabad, India From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 06:11:26 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Suraj Kumar S.) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 11:41:26 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Sublists In-Reply-To: ; from cvr@gnu.org.in on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 11:32:43AM +0530 References: Message-ID: <20010804114126.B2623@in.inapp.com> I think i would be ideal to have different lists. We usually see that some threads become very large and the contents of the mails sometimes have no relavence with the actual subject. Hence some mails may become junk mails form someone. Maybe you can subscribe us into all of these different lists. Those who would not be interested in one of them, can unsubscribe from that specific list and not from the main list. -Suraj On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 11:32:43AM +0530, Radhakrishnan C V wrote: > It seems that we need to have more sublists based on themes now > under extensive deliberation like: > > > 1. Free Software in Education > 2. Programming and technical > 3. Projects, developer coordination > 4. General (philosophy, events, licence, etc) > 5. ... From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 06:47:12 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Jayan S R) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:17:12 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] gtk help In-Reply-To: <3B6A3230.BF167E4@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Ajith Kumar wrote: > Hello > can anyone help in converting this to gtk undel GNU/Linux. > > ajith > I am giving it a try. I will just convert it and send it, but I do not know how it should look like :-) I could not compile it since it uses dos graphics functions. one question- can you please tell me why did u set the viewport to these magic numbers? setviewport(120,40,520,440,1); so that it will be easier for me. regards -- Jayan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 09:10:39 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (keshava kumar) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 02:10:39 -0700 Subject: [FSF India] New person onf list Message-ID: <200108040910.CAA24325@mail8.bigmailbox.com> Hi Friends, Tahnking you all for welcoming me as one of you in this mailing list. It would be helpful if you send you e-mail ids indivually to me , have good day, Keshava G. ------------------------------------------------------------ <==James (Spike) Masters, Live In Sydney==> Check out our site for more info Email thats fast, free and spamless!! http://mail.fsf.com.au From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 11:07:31 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Jayan S R) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 16:37:31 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] gtk help In-Reply-To: <3B6A3230.BF167E4@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --1489653231-37675009-996923251=:13639 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Ajith Kumar wrote: > Hello > can anyone help in converting this to gtk undel GNU/Linux. here is the gtk version of your MOTION OF A PARTICLE IN CENTRAL FORCE FILELD It looks really cool. I bet it looks better than the dos version, let me know If u have any trouble in compiling or running this program. warm regards -- Jayan --1489653231-37675009-996923251=:13639 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="cfmgtk.c" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="cfmgtk.c" LypQUk9HLjAwMTogTU9USU9OIE9GIEEgUEFSVElDTEUgSU4gQ0VOVFJBTCBG T1JDRSBGSUxFTEQNCiogUHJvZ3JhbSBuYW1lOiBDRk0uQyANCiogaGFja2Vk IGJ5IEpheWFuLiBTLiBSIFNhdCBBdWcgIDQgMTU6MjM6MTMgSVNUIDIwMDEN CiogYmFzZWQgb24gc2NyaWJibGUtc2ltcGxlLmMgZnJvbSBndGsgZGVtbyBl eGFtcGxlcw0KKg0KKiBjb21waWxlIHVzaW5nICBnY2MgY2ZtZ3RrLmMgYGd0 ay1jb25maWcgLS1jZmxhZ3NgIGBndGstY29uZmlnIC0tbGlic2AgLW8gY2Zt DQoqIA0KKiANCiovDQoNCg0KDQojaW5jbHVkZSA8bWF0aC5oPg0KLyojaW5j bHVkZSA8Z3JhcGhpY3MuaD4gKi8NCiNpbmNsdWRlIDxndGsvZ3RrLmg+DQoN CiNpbmNsdWRlIDxzdGRpby5oPg0KI2luY2x1ZGUgPHN0ZGxpYi5oPg0KI2Rl ZmluZSBQSSAzLjE0MQ0KDQpzdGF0aWMgR2RrUGl4bWFwICpwaXhtYXAgPSBO 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So the skills and techniques he learned form the school could be used freely and without any restrictions for the betterment of the society. For example a medical student, on successful completion of his course can practice his acquired skills without any license from any one other than the Government. Same is the case all other fields of education - he can practice and share his knowledge with his neighbours, friends and the like. So the knowledge one gets from the educational institutions should be practiced and shared without any restrictions and licenses (Government-license is excluded because it only confirms the required skills). As such teaching anything that requires license or permision from anyone other than the concerned Educational institution and or the Government for practicing is illegeal (according to my belief). M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 12:32:40 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 18:02:40 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] gtk help References: Message-ID: <3B6BEB68.31390311@eth.net> Jayan S R wrote: > MOTION OF A PARTICLE IN CENTRAL FORCE FILELD It looks really cool. I bet it looks better than the dos version, > let me know If u have any trouble in compiling or running this program. Jayan Thank you Jayan, it is working. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 15:06:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Varun Sinha) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 20:36:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> <20010802162112.A778@orion> <001101c11c9d$2714c3c0$0cc96565@dreammachine> Message-ID: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> WB Govt ties up with MSFT http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010804/tc/india_microsoft_dc_1.html One would think they would be better off tying up with RedHat or SuSE or the FSF Who wants a government that has to be patched every week....? -------------------------------------------------------------- Cosmic Information and Technology Ltd, Ahmedabad, India From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 16:34:24 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:04:24 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> Message-ID: <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> FSF wake up this news comes at a bad time there are efforts from different directions to make WB a Free Software State. Can we all make a presentation on this immediately at least the board members can write somethin to this senior official in WBEIDC and explain them that they are getting a one way ticket. A senior official at the West Bengal Electronics Industry Development Corp (Webel) said the deal with Microsoft would help the state woo investments in the information technology sector. the closest contact info i could get was the following. http://www.wbidc.com/contact.htm the Westbengal.com site did not list email id's of Ministers and the CM, they had phone numbers listed what a ridiculous thing to do. I urge we should have a strong presentation from FSF on the follwing issues 1)Investment Promises which never come, tell them to learn from the mistake of others. 2)You have to help yourself there will be nobody else helping you. 3)How,Why and where Free Software can help achieve there objectives. 4)Who is making $$ in this SLACK phase?? cheers S.Goswami > WB Govt ties up with MSFT > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010804/tc/india_microsoft_dc_1.html > > One would think they would be better off tying up with RedHat or SuSE or > the FSF > > Who wants a government that has to be patched every week....? > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Cosmic Information and Technology Ltd, Ahmedabad, India > > > _______________________________________________ > http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 16:50:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:20:28 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> Message-ID: <1160.192.168.0.2.996943828.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> in continuation to the last mail tell them 1)As the old saying goes A penny Saved is Penny Made. 2)The M$ has lost its Lusture , and this trick has been tried many a times and it did not work very well for the other states, tell them to try a radi cally new concept like Free Software it will definetly will not cause any brain damage to anyone. 3)Tell them we know it take lots of efforts and guts to do it but in long run its worth taking it Lemme quote one of our local dailies deccan.com poor thing does not maintain Archives may be i should approach them too ;-) "Naidu's Global Consultants fail to bring in a single paisa" >From CR Gowri Shanker Hyderabad july 27 : Six international consultants hired by the state government last year to formulate industrial policy and boost investment are in deep trouble for their failure to attract major foreign companies. At a recent review of invetments in the state , the government expressed its displeasure to the six consultants for their failure to attaract investment worth the name. The consultants on the CM's firing line are Ernest and Young,KPMG,Pricewaterhouse Coopers,A F Ferguson and Co, Mega Ace Consultanct and Alpic Finance. and it goes on and on in bashing the consultants.. cheers S.Goswami > WB Govt ties up with MSFT > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010804/tc/india_microsoft_dc_1.html > > One would think they would be better off tying up with RedHat or SuSE or > the FSF > > Who wants a government that has to be patched every week....? > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Cosmic Information and Technology Ltd, Ahmedabad, India > > > _______________________________________________ > http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 16:42:38 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:12:38 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] [simputer@yahoogroups.com: [simputer] Digest Number 139] Message-ID: <20010804221238.B1904@orion> ----- Forwarded message from simputer@yahoogroups.com ----- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:07:03 +0500 (GMT) From: V Vinay Subject: The tax payer and other issues Hi all, Warning: This is a long mail. Please do not respond to this email, especially if you are not prepared to think through and believe you require any additional clarifications. Our energies are better spent elsewhere. > I have been reading the mails and I think that one oft > the original posters had pointed out that the initial > development of the Simputer was carried out in IISc, > banglore. That institute is funded by the tax payers > money. So, the question arises why does the license > fee not go to IISc but a private firm. > > I have not seen this one answered. Indeed, this has not been answered. And it seems many other questions. First, a general comment on the lack of understanding of how publically financed institutions work. Technologies are not thrown open just because institutions takes money from the tax payer. On the contrary, they are protected rigorously. Take the case of path breaking technologies that have emerged from IIT-Madras; are they in the open? Do you know that some of the query optimization algorithms and code that is part of Microsoft's database server is from IIT-Bombay? The list is virtually endless. Non-disclosure is a norm; it is not the exception. Speaking for the IISc team, the four of us got together as individuals working on something beyond our brief. This means that we have not received any direct funding from any agency (tax paying or otherwise) to subsidise our efforts. In fact, most of the money put in by the IISc team came at the cost of our *personal renumeration* from several consultancy projects. But nevertheless IISc, at best could have got only part of any license fee as Encore, as employer of the other three trustees, is an equal partner. This is the reason for setting a non-profit trust. With great wisdom and sagacity, and what should be regarded as a unique experiment in academic-industrial interaction, IISc and Encore have deposited any intellectual property on the Simputer from their respective sides with the Trust. You should also know that a non-profit trust is not a private firm! Of course, any money that comes into the trust cannot go to the pockets of the trustees. You can sleep in peace, the state has enough mechanisms in place to guarantee this. IISc is also interested in commercializing the Simputer effort. It took a major step by allowing, for the first time in India, faculty entrepreneurship. It has a equity stake in the company so started. (Three years ago, we probably would have signed an NDA with Encore and got a small personal compensation for that.) Now to the economics: it is not worthwhile for anyone to get into commercial activity in this space unless they have a market for about 100,000 to 200,000 Simputers; until that point the economics does not work out. The total revenue at say, 2000,000 Simputers is $40 million. And $25,000 will be steep price for this manufacturer?? (This is rhetoric, I am not looking for your answer.) A manufacturer can pay this fee and make as many boards as they want, supply them to different "assemblers" or even deliver different assembled Simputers. Or a company can get into contract manufacturing agreement in which case it pays the license fee and the manufacturer does not have to. I hope I will not see anymore of the incredible questions about paying license for selling Simputer to 30 friends etc as if the trust is composed of some robots with the intelligence of a moron. The trust, let me assure you, is made of very smart thinking people, thank you. You should recognize by now that the hardware and software on the Simputer has been thrown open *by choice*; we gave up our monoplistic position on the Simputer. In doing so, we have only invited competition to our own companies. TIME Asia, in its coverage, called this move naive. Hmmm. Were we really smart here! Maybe, maybe not. But what is the support we get for this decision? Well, we get ill-informed, shrill and venomous comments by our so-called tax payers and others, with zero understanding of how a trust functions and of any underlying economics. And some of these emails even comes with a line that the information contained in the email is proprietary to a private company! So I suppose I cannot comment any further :-) The success of the Simputer does not depend on its licensing model, or who its trustees are, or what technologies it uses. It depends on the change it can make to the people around us. People around the world are excited about the Simputer for its vision, for offering hope. But we all realize that no single technology can transform the strata of societies we are looking at. There are a thousand other things to be done to get this and other countries out of their sorry present state. That effort is being strengthened by like minded people who are quitely contributing behind the scenes. Thank God some of them exist! If any of you think you can contribute, please lend your hand in your own unique way. Let a thousand ideas bloom! This is what we require of each one of us. If the only role you can play is adversial, you can atleast contribute by bringing silence, golden silence!! Regards Vinay ---- Prof. V. Vinay, Trustee, Simputer Trust ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:55:23 -0400 From: Ozakil Azim Subject: Re: The tax payer and other issues Vinay, I beg to disagree with you. I am not writing this mail to seek clarification from you or your colleagues. This is an 'open' forum and until such time that you keep this forum open, I will give vent to 'my' opinions. we all know that you could opt to retain complete IP rights to the simputer and license it any way you want to your potential licensees. and that nobody is stopping you from doing that. and that you could potentially make millions of dollars personally. and that you are getting incensed at all the 'unmerited' criticism. you know what? if you had kept the rights to yourself, you probably wouldn't have gotten this level of criticism from the 'open-source' believers. Please understand that open source rhetoric will sound shrill at times. did you think the open source path will be easy? that the open source philosophy is something that can be customized for varying degrees of openness? let's all agree to disagree and move on. you guys are doing a good job. nobody thinks ill of you or your achievements. everybody has gone on record appreciating your work. just ignore the criticism if you don't like it. moderate this forum and delete posts that you don't agree with, if you like. but please do not think that people in this forum are 'robots with the intelligence of a moron', either. you need to a build a team of developers who will be willing to spend their time, as you have done, freely, to the ongoing development and the success of the simputer; as hundreds of developers have done for apache etc. already. do not alienate them before they even get started. -azim V Vinay wrote: > > Please do not respond to this email, especially if you are not > prepared to think through and believe you require any additional > clarifications. > > > > I hope I will not see anymore of the incredible questions about paying > license for selling Simputer to 30 friends etc as if the trust is > composed of some robots with the intelligence of a moron. > > > > Well, we get ill-informed, shrill and venomous comments by our > so-called tax payers and others, with zero understanding of how a > trust functions and of any underlying economics. > > > > If the only role you can play is adversial, you can atleast contribute by > bringing silence, golden silence!! > ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----- End forwarded message ----- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 20:39:14 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 02:09:14 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: Hi People, Seriously, this is crazy!! Who's taking all these decisions. I see far too many problems: 1) Proprietary software, is in a sense, against the principles of democracy. Just consider using free software for administrative purposes. The people have access to the code the govt uses and know exactly how things related are functioning. For example, software used in elections etc. I actually read this article sometime back about a country deciding to focus on using Free Software for all administrative purposes. Can't trace the URL now :-(. 2) The article says that West Bengal plans to setup a state-wide computer network connecting the secretariat and the district headquarters. This is serious business. I mean, your key word would be SECURITY. In such a case, why would anyone ever want to use Windows. Microsoft itself "tried" Windows sometime back on its Hotmail servers when it was hacked (I'm not entirely sure of the part of being hacked, but they definitely dropped the plans of using Windows very soon). It's now gone back to FreeBSD + Apache. Just consider, one intruder on the network could mean sooooo much trouble. We are talking about *SENSITIVE* data here. > 1)Investment Promises which never come, tell them to learn from the > mistake of others. > 2)You have to help yourself there will be nobody else helping you. > 3)How,Why and where Free Software can help achieve there objectives. > 4)Who is making $$ in this SLACK phase?? You're sooo right... somebody has to talk with the guys about this stuff. And soon, the deal is going to be signed on 16th!! Are we having any plan yet?? Who're the ones taking all the decisions out there. For some time, I thought it might be Bihar :-) Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 02:29:39 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 07:59:39 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] gtk help References: Message-ID: <3B6CAF93.FA25A5A6@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CE41367EFA5938E2A069FBC4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jayan S R wrote: > On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Ajith Kumar wrote: > > > Hello > > can anyone help in converting this to gtk undel GNU/Linux. > > here is the gtk version of your MOTION OF A PARTICLE IN CENTRAL FORCE > FILELD It looks really cool. I bet it looks better than the dos version, > let me know If u have any trouble in compiling or running this program. > Thank you Jayan. It works well. ajith > > warm regards > > -- > Jayan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: cfmgtk.c > cfmgtk.c Type: Plain Text (TEXT/PLAIN) > Encoding: BASE64 --------------CE41367EFA5938E2A069FBC4 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------CE41367EFA5938E2A069FBC4-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 03:53:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:23:00 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] New person onf list In-Reply-To: <200108040910.CAA24325@mail8.bigmailbox.com> References: <200108040910.CAA24325@mail8.bigmailbox.com> Message-ID: <15212.49948.52928.356656@mail.linux-delhi.org> Why? >>>>> "keshava" == keshava kumar writes: keshava> Hi Friends, keshava> Tahnking you all for welcoming me as one of you in this keshava> mailing list. keshava> It would be helpful if you send you e-mail ids indivually keshava> to me , keshava> have good day, keshava> Keshava G. -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 03:53:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:23:00 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] New person onf list In-Reply-To: <200108040910.CAA24325@mail8.bigmailbox.com> References: <200108040910.CAA24325@mail8.bigmailbox.com> Message-ID: <15212.49948.52928.356656@mail.linux-delhi.org> Why? >>>>> "keshava" == keshava kumar writes: keshava> Hi Friends, keshava> Tahnking you all for welcoming me as one of you in this keshava> mailing list. keshava> It would be helpful if you send you e-mail ids indivually keshava> to me , keshava> have good day, keshava> Keshava G. -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 18:11:34 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:41:34 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <1421.192.168.0.8.996747456.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Satyakam Goswami wrote: > > U might be aware of Life (linux for education) which was started by > > Nagarjuna G. at Tata institute of Fund. Research. > > > > There are few gathered at mailing list for the purpose and all would be > > able to find more like minded over there. > There site is down and i tried calling nagarjun's number in Mumbai, nobody > responded. > > S.Goswami > > ________________________________________ > Archean Infotech > Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar > Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com > Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 > Mobile:9849016667 IN A 'SOFTWARE SUPER-POWER', RURAL KIDS LACK THE CODE TO LEARN... By Frederick Noronha -------------------- WHY IS it easier for Indian school students to use the computer to study the geography of the United States, rather than know the states of their own country better? What is the fate of students in non-English schools who want to learn how to use computers optimally? In a word, are we producing suitable software to cope with the needs of our own schools? These issues come up regularly to haunt educationists keen to give school-children better access to computers. More so, when the students come from underprivileged or poor backgrounds, are familiar only with regional languages, and study in resource-poor government schools. "Availability of suitable (educational software) material in the Kannada language is next to nil," complains engineer S. Jayaraman. He is a consultant to the Azim Premji Foundation (APF), a philanthropic network started by Bangalore's prominent IT house. The APF has plans to computerise around a thousand rural schools, attended mainly by children of the poor. So far it has managed around three dozen. This too has not been problem-free. Plans to set up these 'community learning centres' which could be used in the evenings by general villagers have, among other things, been hit by a lack of relevant software. "Some of the (commercial software producers) are offering syllabus-based learning," says Jayaram. Much of the 'educational software' available is in English, and better suited to foreign students rather than Indian needs. Others firms have simply taken textbooks and dumped it onto a CD. Some of the other problems the Azim Premji Foundation has to struggle with include finding sufficiently motivated teachers close-by, difficult infrastructure (high and ultra low-voltage power), reluctance of school authorities to open access to villagers outside school hours, and the like. But the Foundation is already reporting that putting computers in rural schools has boosted attendance, and that admissions to otherwise-ignored government schools has also improved. APF has been able to make use of two specific software -- one a Karnataka-based treasure hunt, giving information on the state's various districts; and the other called 'Brainstorm' that helps students practise simple Arithmetic concepts. C.V.Madhukar of the APF stresses that the foundation has taken up "primary education as our target, not so much as philanthropy but more as problem-solving". He said the possible agenda on this front could revolve around computer-based content creation (either teacher-centered or child-centered content); TV-based content; setting up Community Learning Centres; and facilitate the donation of used PCs from companies to schools. Tia Sircar of the Bangalore-based TeLC (The e-Learning Consortium) also stresses the need to look at the 'content needs' of the Indian rural masses. She points to the success of some experiments like the Pratham initiative of computer training in Mumbai, which Sircar says has been a "vast success". Sircar concedes that students across the country feel the need to study English. But without regional language software, the aim of making India a computer-literate nation would simply not happen, as educationists agree. Others wanting to promote computers in schools have also faced similar problems. From the west coast, the Goa Computers-in-Schools Project (GCSP) is an Internet-based alliance between overseas Goans and those here to help spur on attempts to give schools in the state access to more computers. Recently, the GCSP managed to finally get the Central government to allow Customs-free import of once-used computers from abroad to non-elitist, non-commercial privately run schools. This is particularly relevant in Goa, a state where much of school education is privately managed. Such measures could allow overseas expats to send in donated and once-used computers by the containerful, on just paying the freight charges. But software questions remain. In the past too, some linked to this network have raised questions about the ethics of using pirated proprietorial software in schools, where students are supposed to be taught to follow a principled approach to life. Other approaches are being tried out. Aware of this acute lack of educational software, the small but active network across India that promotes Open Source and 'free' software is also beginning to pay some attention to the issue. Prof Nagarjuna G of the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research in Mumbai has set up a Internet based mailing-list to study the potential in school education of GNU-Linux, the Open Source and 'free' software. Life can be contacted via Life-admin@hbcse.tifr.res.in while the website is at http://hbcse.tifr.res.in/mailman/listinfo/life There are other global websites like linuxforkids.com which offer megabytes for education software on a CD for prices ranges between three to six dollars. Programs offered include First_math (a maths quiz game), Anton (a challenging maths game), Cindrella (commercial interactive geometry software), Linux Letters (learning game for children from 2-up for letters and numbers), TuxType (typing tutor), Gnerudite (a Scrabble-clone), Across (to generate your own crossword puzzles), Qvocab (to increase your foreign language vocabulary), Lingoteach (to learn foreign languages), Atomix (a molecule-creation game), LOGO (tool for children to learn programming). This might be helpful, but doesn't quite solve the main problem at hand. Linux is still, unfortunately, seen as a "geeks' operating system". So, support available is relatively limited, specially in remote rural areas. In addition, again the problem of having relevant, local-language educational software remains. On the positive side, there are some signs of hope. Local GNU-Linux enthusiasts are showing signs of growing interest to build India-relevant software applications, and the educational sector could benefit too. Committed supporters of Linux do appreciate that for their Operating System to grow in popularity, it should have something specifically relevant to Indian needs. Bangalore incidentally could be called one of the Linux capitals of India, with its active network of supporters and enthusiasts who showcase their work through events like the IT.com in November and the Bang!inux held in early summer each year. Others are also trying out their own initiatives. Dr Pavanaja, a scientist who was earlier with the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre in Mumbai and now devotes his time to promoting computer usage in Kannada through the Kannada Ganaka Parishad (see vishwakannada.com), agrees that relevant software is sorely lacking in regional languages. "The only field IT has failed to change dramatically is education. Computers can remake education. It is indeed time to begin," says he. He points to his own initiatives. 'Kannada-Kali' is a software that generates a jig-saw puzzle from Kannada alphabets. One has to fit the pieces in the right place, thus enabling youngsters or those not knowing the Kannada language to practise on its alphabet. "I don't claim you can learn Kannada using this. But it is an entry point," says Dr Pavanaja. He has also put together a Kannada version of LOGO, the logic-oriented, graphic-oriented software that is used as a tool to teach young children the basic concepts needed for programming. It is still under development. So far, only a few keywords required for the LOGO program have been completed. Some 300 more keywords are yet to be done. Dr Pavanaja is more than open to the idea of freely sharing his 'intellectual property'. In fact, the Kannada-Kali program has a prominently distributed message: "Feel free to distribute this among your Kannada friends." In such a situation of scarcity, it is indeed laudable to see some of those working on such themes to be more than willing to share the fruit of their labour generously, without thinking about monetary gain. Of course, at the end of the day, much of the Indian educational software scarcity simply boils down to a question of economics. In spite of their millions-strong numbers, the rural dweller simply doesn't have the purchasing power. So why should anyone bother with writing software specifically for him? Even if this is a country that is increasingly claiming the status of being the world's software superpower. (ENDS) -------------------------------------------------- | Frederick Noronha, Freelance Journalist | | 784, Near Lourdes Convent, Saligao 403511 Goa | | Tel 0091.832.409490/409783 Mobile: 9822.12 24 36 | | E-mail: fred@bytesforall.org or fred@vsnl.com | /) URL-http://www.bytesforall.org | / URL-http://www.goacom.com/news/ \\ _( (+-------------------------------------------------+) ) /| (((\ \) /_) /^) / /))/ (\\\\ \_/ / \ \_ / / // \ / \ / \ __/ \__ / | | | | /*******\ /*******\ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 05:18:54 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (K.R.Srivathsan) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 10:48:54 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: Message-ID: <3B6CD73E.1020604@iiitmk.org> Dear all, The best way to promote FS is through a constructive approach. Pointing out failures of non-FS to deliver and how we are being taken for a ride is not going to take us far. We must highlight FS successes, educate the yougsters, the decision makers, etc. Decision makers often have little time and work under all kinds of pressures. They often need experts to advice and this they dont get. Instead of projecting Fredom, Democracy, etc. , we have to educate on what is in the national and society's interests. If it sounds too much of an ideology, many well meaning people will quietly distance themselves. They need guidelines to promote natonal interests - ones that are whetted by well respected experts, mot by that of a group perceived by them having some colour. We can evolve some healWe have to remember that being in this world, free and 'not-free' will continue to exist - as humans there will always be some possessive and some enlightened with varying proportions in everyone of us. Here I am proposing a set of guidelines that we can opine upon and participate in a National Seminar on this issue. In any services projects of the Government, preference may be given in the following order, with due weightage for the backup services support capability. i) Free Software based developments with professional services support. ii) Open software with professional services support. iii) Any relevant mix of (i), (ii); or (i), (ii) and (iv) as second priority. iv) Proporietory solutions that guarantee freedom from undesirable cookies and with known input and output formats. so that these systems can be expanded by intergration with other systems. v) Proprietory solutions with unknown input / output formats and guarantee of freedom from user unknown cookies. vi) Proprietory software with unknown cookies should have the lowest priority in the category. Project sponsors should demand from software and services suppliers the open specifications of the products they offer as per the above guidelines. We also msut oppose (as the Europeans are doing) software patents. It is a minefield not unlike the issues under bioiversity and traditional herbal medicine practices. we must develop a national consensus and against software patents. If we do that, even organizations like NASSCOM, will respect our contribution. Otherwise they will continue to be under the clutches of multinational lobbies. We also must constructively assist FS based industries by evolving services backups for FS solutions. In fact it is because of the ---------------------------------------------------------------- I NEED ONE MORE ASISTANCE in the following. I am opening an Authoring Web site at iiitmk.ac.in We shall start posing a number issues concerning specific learning modules. Experts may send us contents that we shall titch together as courses. Send me any amount of problems, solutions, mini-projects (for students practice) in FS that I can use for classrooms and freely distribute to others. Let us give a FS learning platform for colleges to use. In particular I am looking for the following courses. 1. Data Structures and Algorithms. 2. Programming Languages - with examples from C, C++ and Java. (Big US Schools use Scheme as the base languages as best suited for teaching. Java may be as good. Give your opinion). 3. Operating Systems - with text as Applied Operating Systems by Silbetschatz, et al - and prefer GNU/Linux and C as the learning support. 4. Web Technologies - over Apache, Sun Java, Mozilla, etc. 5. RDBMS, ODBC based applications, OODB - what FS? We also need to prepare a School Learning Platforms over FS. Need to define some role for IT in school. Not of the kind it is today. Can any one help? The developed courses will be available a Free Courseware. Unless we begin teaching young impressionable age group the technology using, we shall not have the stamina to do the long-distance. Remeber there are many applied areas of Software where Free aproaches are yet to touch. Best wishes, srivathsan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof. K.R. Srivathsan Tel: (+91 471) 527567(O); Director 324258(R) Indian Institute of Information Technology Fax: 527568 and Management - Kerala Park Centre, Technopark Email: director@iiitmk.org Thiruvananthapuram - 695 581 Home : www.iiitmk.org Kerala, India ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 06:53:59 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 12:23:59 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State government which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I am making it as general-purpose as possible so that more people are willing to sign it: this is not a time for family squabbles. I'd appreciate any additions/enhancements which can be made to this letter. URL's highlighting the points discussed would also be a great idea. Not being an activist, I cannot suggest the proper methods for getting this letter signed and circulated to the right authorities. Dear We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom proponents in India are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans to base your complete e-governance infrastructure on a single foreign company's products. The history of Microsoft has shown that it has very little regard for serving any objectives except its own, which does not augur well for the future of in particular and our country in general. We request you to kindly consider the following points before making this relationship permanent: 1. Security. Microsoft products have time and again demonstrated a regrettable lack of basic security features. Recent incidents which have affected a sizeable portion of Microsoft-based servers and client systems on the Internet have served to highlight the fact that Microsoft makes Insecure Products. The Code Red worm (computer virus) infected millions of servers on the Internet in June 2001 and coordinated them (without their administrators consent) to simultaneously attack the US White House web site. The worm is still alive though dormant and no one knows exactly where and when it will strike again. Needless to say, this worm only affects computers running Microsoft's most popular web server. Only a few days after the infamous Code Red attacks (on August 5, 2001), another worm which infects Microsoft-based web servers has been discovered and is at the time of writing being analysed to discover its potential to disrupt the world's computing and networking infrstructure. The SIRCAM virus which replicates itself using e-mail as the medium has been deemed such a major threat to computing infrastructure that Microsoft and the FBI have taken the unprecendented step of releasing a joint warning notice against it to all computer users in July 2001. Again, the SIRCAM virus only affects e-mail users who use Microsoft's products -- all other software is immune to this threat. These are but two symptoms of the general malaise that Microsoft's products suffer from. Each time a product is fixed using patches from Microsoft, new security holes in the product are uncovered, leading to another wave of infection. In fact, there have been cases of a problem fix from Microsoft uncovering older (previously-fixed) problems and making them active again; there are no signs that these issues will ever be completely resolved. 2. Total cost of ownership (TCO) The Total Cost of Ownership of Microsoft's products is much higher than that of other, equivalent, better technologies. With their new licensing model, Microsoft has ensured that those unfortunate enough to invest in their products keep paying for the product, not only at purchase time but throughout the lifetime of the product on an annual basis. We believe that it is possible to save this outflow and redeploy it in other areas in the state which need investments. In addition hardware requirements for running Microsoft are substantially higher than those of competing products from other sources. In many cases a computer running a competing product will cost half of and handle ten times the load that a computer configuration running Microsoft products would. 3. Internal security Microsoft is a company owned by American citizens, having its base of operations in the USA and subject to US laws. A clear effect of this was evidenced in 1999 when it was discovered that some of the security and cryptography functions built into Microsoft's operating systems were subject to be used by the US National Security Agency (NSA) without explicit permission from either Microsoft or the user of the software. This is one lone ``feature'' of Microsoft software which came to light due to the vigilance of a concerned individual. However it is quite possible (indeed, likely) that there are other ways in which Microsoft products are designed and constructed to permit illegal access by US security agencies. As concerned Indians, we would wish to be secure in the knowledge that the software handling our critical information about Government and individuals will not permit foreign Governments to spy upon, or, even worse, arbitrarily modify it without the consent or knowledge of our elected representatives and the Government machine. 4. Flexibility India being a unique country it is very likely that we will wish to adapt the software managing our Government information flows to our specific requirements from time to time. With Microsoft products it will not be possible to do this in any sort of time-bound manner, if it is possible at all. For instance, we may want to create cheap Intel 486-based computers for members of the bureaucracy which they can use to access their e-mail. Building such a low-cost computer with Microsoft software would be impossible since the building blocks of the software (the ``source code'', which is the blueprint for the software) is only available with Microsoft. As users, we will not be able to customise and modify the software to our requirements. To take another example, Microsoft is subject to US Government rules which prohibit the export of some forms of strong data encryption and decryption (scrambling and descrambling) technologies to India except under special conditions. As long as we are using Microsoft products, these technologies will not be available to us and we will be forced to use sub-standard, easily breakable techniques to protect our critical data. 5. Alternatives Given these facts, we strongly urge you to consider alternative technologies and sources for software for mission- and government-critical functions like State e-governance. The GNU/Linux operating system (sometimes also called just ``Linux'') suffers from none of the defects of Microsoft operating systems and applications detailed above and is already the fastest-growing server operating system in the world today. Some of the features of GNU/Linux which make it a viable and desirable component of any Government infrastructure are: - GNU/Linux has not to date been subject to any virus attacks anywhere near the severity of the worms and virii which are infecting Microsoft systems on a nearly daily basis. - The operating system itself and all the applications required to build a safe, secure and efficient infrastructure are available free of cost and can even be downloaded from the Internet. The hardware configuration of systems required to run GNU/Linux is much lower than that of corresponding systems required to run Microsoft products. There is no fee at all -- neither one-time nor recurring -- for using GNU/Linux. - The source code for the operating system and applications is available for perusal and modification. Using GNU/Linux, the Government can be assured that there are they are not at the mercy of any foreign government which can arm-twist Microsoft into putting hidden back-doors into their products. The Government can also give this assurance to the electorate. - Since the source code (i.e. the building blocks) of GNU/Linux is generally available, the Government can, if it so chooses, modify, extend and customise the software for its specific requirements. For instance, it is quite feasible to replace existing encryption techniques in GNU/Linux with those certified by the DRDO, leading to much better and auditable levels of security. Such enhancemente are not possible with Microsoft software. - Many national governments have blacklisted Microsoft products and specifically selected GNU/Linux to host applications managing and monitoring State and Central functions. We request you to critically consider any decision to purchase Microsoft products in the light of the information given above, and to give serious consideration to using alternative technologies which have a much lower cost, are more reliable and secure, and can be easily enhanced to fit in with our national objectives. >>>>> "Satyakam" == Satyakam Goswami writes: Satyakam> FSF wake up this news comes at a bad time there are Satyakam> efforts from different directions to make WB a Free Satyakam> Software State. Can we all make a presentation on this Satyakam> immediately at least the board members can write Satyakam> somethin to this senior official in WBEIDC and explain Satyakam> them that they are getting a one way ticket. Satyakam> A senior official at the West Bengal Electronics Satyakam> Industry Development Corp (Webel) said the deal with Satyakam> Microsoft would help the state woo investments in the Satyakam> information technology sector. Satyakam> the closest contact info i could get was the following. Satyakam> http://www.wbidc.com/contact.htm Satyakam> the Westbengal.com site did not list email id's of Satyakam> Ministers and the CM, they had phone numbers listed what Satyakam> a ridiculous thing to do. Satyakam> I urge we should have a strong presentation from FSF on Satyakam> the follwing issues Satyakam> 1)Investment Promises which never come, tell them to Satyakam> learn from the mistake of others. 2)You have to help Satyakam> yourself there will be nobody else helping you. Satyakam> 3)How,Why and where Free Software can help achieve there Satyakam> objectives. 4)Who is making $$ in this SLACK phase?? Satyakam> cheers S.Goswami >> WB Govt ties up with MSFT >> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010804/tc/india_microsoft_dc_1.html >> >> One would think they would be better off tying up with RedHat >> or SuSE or the FSF >> >> Who wants a government that has to be patched every week....? -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:14:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:44:08 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Interview with RMS Message-ID: <3B6E1990.D1EBFEE7@ti.com> http://juraj.bednar.sk/work/prace/computer/freesoft/stallman.php -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 04:01:55 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 05 Aug 2001 09:31:55 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86hevnyx1o.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> R Sai Kiran writes: > Well, I have a slightly different point of view here. I claim > that, you first get the people to start using the GNU/Linux systems, and > very soon, the whole *philosophy* behind the movement becomes clear to > them. It won't work. This is like suggesting that people who use Microsoft, or any other proprietary software for that matter, automatically, and "very soon," understand the whole philosophy behind *those* companies, which is profit-at-any-cost, to-hell-with-the-users'-rights, die-hard capitalism. You can't just start people off with GNU/Linux and *hope* that somehow, *magically*, the philosophy of Free Software will dawn on them just by using GNU/Linux. This is clearly putting the proverbial cart before the horse. I've noticed in this thread the emphasis on spreading GNU/Linux, the operating system, in schools without any mention about spreading the *concept* of Free Software. Somebody seems to be forgetting that GNU/Linux is NOT the goal, the end-all and be-all of Free Software. At best, it can be shown as a good example of Free Software while advocating the philosophy. > The GNU + GPL is a rather new thing. Don't let RMS hear you saying this; he's been at it for more than 15 years now. > Please note, all I'm saying is we really need people to start > using GNU/Linux first. When I first started off with Linux, I had no idea > of the philosophy, just knew that it was free (in the free beer sense of > "free"). Over a short period of time after that, I came to know the > background stuff, the philosopy. And now, I'm pretty much in love with > it. It's the same with most people, I guess. It's definitely NOT the same with most people! You were just an exception, that's all. You came to "know the background stuff, the philosophy" probably because you made an *attempt* to know it, or somebody else made an attempt advocating it. You did not dream about it, surely. > > > Yes...the main purpose is to spread the philosophy. But, > > > we should'nt directly attack from the philosophy point. > > Why >>attack<< in the first place? If people don't understand the > > word freedom, we can ask them to read their 10th std history text > > books. I once again stress that the mission is not to convert all > > windows users to GNU/Linux users. The mission is to tell people > > about FREE software and help them to start using FREE software. > > I totally accept. But, converting the Windows users to GNU/Linus > users is the first step in making them use FREE software. Oh no, this approach to spreading Free Software is not only flawed but downright suicidal! You are falling into the same trap that the "Open Source" folks did -- "just tempt the users with the "practical" merits of our software and they will automatically switch to our camp!" This is downright bizarre! Dear Sai, you seem to be a man in a hurry, probably because you are young and full of life. Please take a break, sit back, and try to take a more holistic view of Free Software. Try to look at the bigger picture. I repeat, GNU/Linux is not the raison d'etre of Free Software -- the Movement, the Philosophy, is much, much bigger than one operating system. I envy your enthusiasm and energy -- makes me wish I was 20 years younger -- but please don't waste it simply running around installing GNU/Linux boxes in schools. Instead, go around explaining the philosophy. Give lectures, play recordings of RMS's speeches. The acceptance and installation of GNU/Linux, or any other Free Operating System for that matter, will follow as the logical and automatic next step. Create the conditions so that the schools *ask* for Free Operating Systems instead of proprietary ones. Just taking GNU/Linux to them and saying "Here, this is a nice free operating system; we assure you that it is good for you and is better than the competition; we hope you will *soon* understand the philosophy behind it!" simply won't do! The Free Software Movement is not in the Marketing business. We are in the Advocacy business, lest we forget. Trying to compete with the proprietary software *Establishment* on *their* terms and using *their* methods is, as I said earlier, downright suicidal. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:45:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satish Babu) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:15:28 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <01080610152800.11300@athena> I believe that there should be a local group who can take up this issue and lobby the government. Are we aware of any individual or groups in WB who can highlight the dangers of this tie-up? Can we operate through local NGOs? After working in NGOs for long, I think NGOs can be powerful allies in this struggle. I also think that FSF-India should be prepared, with appropriate tools (at the very least, a dossier of documents that explain our position, and quoting examples of governments of other provinces and countries) to respond to such situations at short notice. Raju's letter is powerfully drafted. I wonder if such a letter should be sent by snail-mail or e-mail? Would clogging up the CM's mailbox brand us as cyber terrorists? Ciao Satish From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:54:20 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (viswanath nukala) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 21:54:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] hi, How to find network portin & Host portion of a ip address Message-ID: <20010806045420.80134.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> hi, Friends, i'm newly joined to this mailing list and i dont know where should i post my doubt because i badly looking for some info i'm mailing ! please excuse me if i'm wrong!! Is there any way to find Network portion & Host portion of Given IP address under LInux & c platform. I know there are some funcions like getnetbyname() etc which is used for this, but this function is not supporting under linux! so is there any alternative for this? or so, how should i go forward ! can any one please help me!! with regards viswanath __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:45:34 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:15:34 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] NGOs and Free Software Message-ID: Development, Ethical Trading, and Free Software Danny Yee Last modified November 21, 1999 Abstract This paper makes the political and ethical case for the adoption of free software by Community Aid Abroad and other members of Oxfam International. It should be applicable to development agencies generally and to other organisations with similar values. Free software has obvious pragmatic advantages for community development processes, most notably in its empowerment of users. But the ideological foundations and social structure of the free software movement are also consistent with community development at a theoretical level. Feedback on this document would be appreciated: additional case studies would be particularly useful. A Community Aid Abroad appropriate information technology group has been set up, including a mailing list for discussions in this area. Contents * Introduction * Software: Drawbacks and Dangers * The Advantages of Free Software * Free Software in Action * Conclusion and Recommendations Introduction Informational goods make up a sizeable and increasing fraction of the world's trade - and an even larger fraction of profits, since margins tend to be higher (Compare Microsoft's profit/turnover ratio with General Electrics'). This trend towards an "information economy" is continuing. Ethical trading and appropriate technology policies should therefore cover informational products. With some goods the major ethical concerns are in their manufacture or the effects on the environment of their use. Examples are wheat, iron, refrigerators, and so forth. Such goods are covered by a draft Oxfam GB Ethical Purchasing Policy, which advocates products that "are produced and delivered under conditions that do not involve the abuse or exploitation of any persons" and "have the least negative impact on the environment". The policy mentioned considers weapons and baby milk powder as special cases. But there are many products other than weapons and baby milk powder whose production and delivery may raise no or only minor environmental and ethical concerns, but which may still have effects of major concern in the way they affect the autonomy and independence of users. It is the contention of this paper that software falls into this category. This paper addresses only computer software. Other intellectual property issues are also of great importance. Control of genetic variability through gene patents is one example; World Intellectual Property Organisation treaties on copyright are another. (The latter ought to receive the same sort of critical response that the Multilateral Agreement on Investment did.) This is the context for intellectual property rights enforcement. This world market in knowledge is a major and profoundly anti-democratic new stage of capitalist development. The transformation of knowledge into property necessarily implies secrecy: common knowledge is no longer private. In this new and chilling stage, communication itself violates property rights. The WTO is transforming what was previously a universal resource of the human race - its collectively, historically and freely-developed knowledge of itself and nature - into a private and marketable force of production. (Allan Freeman, Fixing up the world? GATT and the World Trade Organisation) A good deal of the world's primary resources are located in the poorer countries of the world's "South", even if their exploitation is often in the hands of external corporations. Systems for controlling the distribution of information, on the other hand, are (like possession of capital) overwhelmingly centralised in the rich "North". This should be of great concern to organisations such as Oxfam International members which take a long-term perspective in their attempts to reduce the inequitable distribution of resources. As the United Nations Sustainable Development Networking Program says: Information and Communication Technologies are now fundamental to dealing with all development issues in developing countries. An Oxfam International Education Now report presents some of the consequences of an information economy for educational equity. _________________________________________________________________ Software: Drawbacks and Dangers The following analysis of potential political and ethical dangers in software is not meant to be complete. Nor is it an analysis which applies equally to all kinds of software. There are certain key components, such as operating systems, application programming interfaces, and software with mass deployment, on which many implementations and many other software systems depend. These are more critical than software systems with peripheral roles. The Expense Software is often prohibitively expensive. The standard price for an ordinary office package might be a year's income for most of the world's people. As one Mexican project adopting free software wrote: The primary reason for reaching this decision was the kind of money we would have had to pay if we went for proprietary software: at US$55 for each machine with Win98 and Office, US$500 for every NT license and an average of 6 workstations and one server for 140000 labs, that's a lot of money. Though "discounts" are often available on software, these tend to either be in exchange for accepting a local monopoly for the vendor's products, or an attempt to gain market share at the expense of competitors. Consider, for example, Microsoft's attempts to bribe universities and colleges into using NT. So called software "piracy" is obviously an option for those unable or unwilling to purchase software, and indeed it is a common choice throughout the South, where copyright law is often poorly enforced. But this places users at the mercy of the law, increasing their vulnerability to those rich and powerful enough to use it to their own advantage. Also, development organisations themselves are vulnerable to enforcement in their home countries, so they can not support or encourage such practices. As well as the up-front costs of software, there are usually hidden costs. Often licensing is per-user, so costs will increase with the size of the user base and inhibit growth. Support for proprietary software is almost always prohibitively expensive. Frequent software upgrades may be required to maintain compatibility and functionality (consider the deliberate modification by Microsoft of the file format in successive versions of Word, in order to force users to upgrade to newer versions). And software tends, especially with upgrades, to require more powerful, and hence more expensive, hardware. These hidden costs are often recurrent. Lack of Openness Open standards and protocols are in the interests of consumers, and indeed of most businesses: they allow genuine market competition, giving users options and choices. Closed standards and protocols and technical secrets, on the contrary, benefit only those seeking to maintain or attain monopoly control of markets by decommoditizing software. (Proprietary software can, of course, use open standards and protocols, but much of it doesn't.) Security and Privacy The use of black-box proprietary software without source code creates security risks, since it makes the detection of Trojan horses rather difficult. One high-profile case is the Melissa Virus. An extreme case is government surveillance: an Australian government report (the Walsh Report, see sections 6.2.10 and 6.2.11) has recommended that security agencies arrange for back doors to be inserted into mass-market commercial software to allow eavesdropping. Perhaps it is paranoia to think that the United States National Security Agency has already arranged for this to be done, but when peoples' lives are at stake, can one really trust (say) Microsoft Word when vulnerable West Papuan or East Timorese activists are involved? >From a privacy point of view, some worrying features are known to have been built into popular proprietary software packages. Microsoft Windows and recent versions of Office include a unique computer identifier in all documents - an identifier which is sent to Microsoft on registration of software, as well as in cookies set by Microsoft's web site. The implications of this for anyone trying to maintain anonymous - whistle-blowers and activists most obviously - are frightening. (See analysis and a news report from CNET; Paul Ferris points the obvious argument for free software in "Of Corporations, Privacy, and Open Source Software".) The Creation of New Dependencies Proprietary software increases the dependence of individuals, organisations, and communities on external forces - typically large corporations with a very poor track record on acting in the public interest. There are dependencies for support, installation and problem fixing, sometimes in critical systems. There are dependencies for upgrades and compatibility. There are dependencies when modification or extended functionality is required. And there are ongoing financial dependencies if licensing is recurrent. Political dependencies can result from the use of proprietary software, too. For example, an Irish ISP under attack for hosting the top level East Timor domain .tp was helped out by hackers and community activists (setting up a secure Linux installation). Given that this attack was probably carried out with the connivance of elements of the Indonesian government, it is hard to see a commercial vendor with a significant market presence in Indonesia being so forthcoming with support. Nearly exact parallels to this exist in agriculture, where the patenting of seed varieties and genome sequences and the creation of non-seeding varieties are used to impose long-term dependencies on farmers. An Analogy: Baby-milk Powder The effects of baby-milk powder on poor infants (which has sparked a Nestle campaign/boycott) provide an analogy to the effects of proprietary software. Sending information in Microsoft Word format to correspondents in Eritrea is analagous to Nestle advertising baby milk powder to Indian mothers. It encourages the recipients to go down a path which is not in their best interests, and from which it is not easy for them to recover. The apparent benefits (the doctor recommended it; we will be able to read the documents sent to us) may be considerable and the initial costs involved (to stop breast-feeding and switch to milk powder; to start using Microsoft Office) may be subsidised, hidden, or zero (with "piracy"), but the long-term effects are to make the recipients dependent on expensive recurrent inputs, and to burden them with ultimately very high costs. Moreover, because documents can be easily copied and because there are strong pressures to conform to group/majority standards in document formats, pushing individuals towards proprietary software and document formats can snowball to affect entire communities, not just the individuals initially involved. Restrictions on Self-help Proprietary software not only creates new dependencies: it actively hinders self-help, mutual aid, and community development. * Users cannot freely share software with others in the community, or with other communities. * The possibilities for building local support and maintainance systems are limited. * Modification of software to fit local needs is not possible, leaving communities with software designed to meet the needs of wealthy Northern users and companies, which may not be appropriate for them. An Example: Language Support Language support provides a good example of the advantages of free software in allowing people to adapt products to their own ends and take control of their lives. Operating systems and word processing software support only a limited range of languages. Iceland, in order to help preserve its language, wants Icelandic support added to Microsoft Windows - and is even willing to pay for it. But without access to the source code - and the right to modify it - they are totally dependent on Microsoft's cooperation. (See an article in the Seattle Times and an article by Martin Vermeer which argues that lack of software localisation is a threat to cultural diversity.) Whatever the outcome of this particular case, it must be noted that Iceland is hardly a poor or uninfluential nation. There is absolutely no hope of Windows being modified to support Aymara or Lardil or other indigenous languages: the spread of such proprietary software will continue to contribute to their marginalisation. In contrast, the source code to the GNU/Linux operating system is available and can be freely modified, so groups are able to add support for their languages. See, as an example, the KDE Internationalization Page (KDE is a desktop for GNU/Linux) or a project to localise GNU/Linux for Indian languages. Another example of the kind of thing that access to source code allows is the Omega Typesetting System, a modification of the free TeX typesetting system "designed for printing all of the world's languages, modern or ancient, common or rare"; this sort of extension or modification is simply not possible with proprietary word-processing packages. Unsustainable Sustainable development should favour unlimited resources over finite ones. But while software appears to be a renewable resource, its control by profit-making corporations, as Intellectual Property, effectively turns it into a finite resource. _________________________________________________________________ The Advantages of Free Software What is Free Software? The Free Software Foundation's "What is Free Software?" provides a good introduction to free software. `Free software'' refers to the users' freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. More precisely, it refers to three levels of freedom: * The freedom to study how the program works and adapt it to your needs. * The freedom to redistribute copies so you can share with your neighbor. * The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits. A key point is that "free" refers to liberty, not price. Software is only "free" if users have the freedom to copy, modify, and distribute it, and to share it with others. A key necessity for this is access to the source code. Prominent examples of free software are the Linux kernel and the GNU system environment, which together constitute a complete operating system (an alternative to Windows or MacOS), and the Apache web server and sendmail mail transport agent, which between them provide more than 50% of the Internet's web sites and handle perhaps 80% of the world's email. Pragmatic Advantages Quite independently of any ethical and political considerations, there are also pragmatic and technical arguments for the deployment of free software systems. * Some free software products are widely recognised as more reliable and robust, more powerful, and more secure than their proprietary counterparts, and a plausible argument can be made that this is not just accidental, but a consequence of their open development, implementation, and testing. Rob Bos puts it well in 32bitsonline Free software is better than non-free software. It works better, it works faster, it works longer. Open source programs are tried and proven, they are constantly pressed from every direction to do specific tasks, and do them well; and for the simple reason that they are written to work, not simply to sell copies. Free software doesn't just work better, it works orders of magnitude better. Open sourcing an application gives the source code to a large number of developers, instead of a small, tight group. Free software projects have a pool of developers and an effective budget multiple times higher than an equivalent proprietary development project, and will, given all other equal things, advance at a rate many times faster because of their access to an much larger development team. Peer review of code isn't just a pipe dream, it is an essential means to writing superior applications, no matter where they are written. * Free software can typically be obtained for the cost of the media (typically a few dollars for a CD) or network traffic (for distribution via computer networks). It can always be freely distributed. The pragmatic benefits of this should be obvious, but in some contexts the price of free software can also take on political significance: I live in India, one of the poorest countries in the world, with a large number of awfully bright, poor people. In India, today, the entry-level programmer (C knowledge but no work experience) earns $100 a month, and it is not routine for him to have a computer at home. Entry-level computers at $250 and below will attract millions of buyers in India, who will find the difference between $250 and $750 to be a massive one. Industry experts look at around 200 million existing computers, 80% of which run Microsoft OSes. It's useful to focus on the next billion computer sales. In this, I see the price-tag of $0 as being a critical product feature. Ajay Shah - Unix on a billion desktops? * Free software is often less demanding of resources, extending the lifespan of older hardware. As an example of what this allows, consider Project Computer Bank, an Australian venture to supply old computer equipment running GNU/Linux to low income earners, community groups, and disadvantaged schools. Freedom From Dependencies ``Community Aid Abroad's vision is for a fair world in which people control their own lives, their basic rights are achieved and the environment is sustained.'' (emphasis added) Free software does not create dependencies on multinational corporations. Support commonly comes from user groups and online communities, which often provide vastly better support than commercial alternatives. Commercial support is available for free software systems, but users of free software can not be tied to single suppliers or vendors. Access to the source code greatly increases users' options. It allows not just the unrestricted sharing of software packages but also their easy modification to suit local needs and requirements. The value of free software in avoiding dependencies has been recognised by businesses and by governments. Let's say you are a chief technical officer (CTO) at a Fortune 500 company and you have just spent millions of dollars on a strategic business system with software you cannot see inside and cannot modify, software that depends on a single vendor to service. Now are those systems going to change to serve your business plan or your vendor's business plan? ...it probably will not be long before buying closed-source software for your key infrastructure is considered the height of irresponsibility. Eric S. Raymond in Intellectual Capital "Scandinavia, Germany, and France are some of the main centers of Linux use. Some people say that this is because companies and the government want to avoid becoming too dependent on U.S. -- read Microsoft -- products." Kalle Dalheimer, quoted in OSS Europe Development of free software is done by those who have the necessary skills and resources - the resulting products are available for use by whoever needs it. With Linux, the people who use the system get to [affect the way] the system [develops]. It's democracy in the sense that you don't surrender control. Anybody can do anything. It boils down to [the fact that] you must be [competent], but that's a good way of separating the people who do the work. And even the [people who] don't make changes can make suggestions and can do testing and things like that. Linus Torvalds, interview with upsidedown.com. Shared Values Most free software has been produced through decentralised, community-based development processes which are usually open to anyone with the right technical skills (or a willingness to learn) who is prepared to do the work. Users of free software can join software development communities and participate in the refinement and improvement of existing software, or in the development of entirely new programs, building on what already exists. Many free software development projects are almost model community development projects. They are based on open communication, inclusiveness, personal relationships, and working for the good of the community as a whole. In a paper Technology and Pleasure, Gisle Hannemyr describes the history of the "hacker" community, placing it in the artisan tradition and in opposition to Taylorism. He describes its imperatives as: * reject hierarchies * mistrust authority * promote decentralization * share information * serve your community and includes among its position statements: * when creating computer artifacts, not only the observable results, but the craftsmanship in execution matters * practice is superior to theory * people should only be judged on merit (not by appearance, age, race or position) * you can create art and beauty by the means of a computer The long-term effects of free software and associated changes are likely to be significant: Oscar Wilde says somewhere that the problem with socialism is that it takes up too many evenings. The problems with anarchism as a social system are also about transaction costs. But the digital revolution alters two aspects of political economy that have been otherwise invariant throughout human history. All software has zero marginal cost in the world of the Net, while the costs of social coordination have been so far reduced as to permit the rapid formation and dissolution of large-scale and highly diverse social groupings entirely without geographic limitation. Such fundamental change in the material circumstances of life necessarily produces equally fundamental changes in culture. Ebden Moglen, Anarchism Triumphant: Free Software and the Death of Copyright In many ways the ethics of free software reflect that of the Internet community more generally - a community which is still resisting commercialisation of the Net. Education and Technology Transfer Free software both encourages learning and experimentation and in turn benefits from it. Free software is widespread in educational institutions, since access to the source code makes free software an ideal tool for teaching: indeed much free software began as learning exercises. Due to low start-up costs and rapid change, software development and the information economy more generally offer a possible way for the South to build high value industries, leapfrogging older technologies and even modes of production. The flourishing Indian software industry provides an obvious example. But if these industries are built on proprietary products and protocols owned by multinational corporations, then this will only reinforce one-sided dependencies. Free software has obvious advantages here. Free software lends itself to collaborative, community-based development at all scales from cottage industry to world-wide efforts involving the collaboration of thousands of people. Internet access potentially offers the poor the ability to communicate directly with the rest of the world, to directly present their own ideas and perspectives. Combined with the free software development model, it allows them to participate in creating and moulding the technologies and systems that will determine their future. _________________________________________________________________ Free Software in Action The advantages of free software for community and development organisations have been recognised by others: The arguments sketched above apply not just to development organisations but to governments and to some extent even to businesses. The United Nations UNESCO is handing out free Linux CDROMs to community, scientific, and educational projects in Latin America. We believe LINUX can play a very important role in Latin American and Caribbean modernisation, constructing networks to permit a great number of universities, colleges, schools and educational centers, to connect to Internet in order to use this fabulous tool to improve their scientific and cultural levels. In a few words, LINUX is the tool which permits to reduce the "technological gap" between the countries. LINUX permits the acces to "the informatics the most advanced" implemented according to the reduced economic capacities in our region. LINUX is a new way to make informatics, where the most important thing is "the technical quality and people solidarity" And the UNDP is running a Sustainable Development Networking Program, with support from the Linux vendor Red Hat. Mexico's Scholar Net (http://www.linux.org.mx/arturo/scholar/) I work as the project leader of the "Scholar Net", a program that aims to bring computers and the net to every elementary and mid-level school in Mexico. We expect to install from 20 to 35 thousand labs per year to a total of 140,000 centers in the next five years. Due to matters of cost, reliability and configurability, we plan to use GNU/Linux to replace the proprietary server options and, now thanks to GNOME, the proprietary desktop application options. SatelLife SatelLife is an international not-for-profit organization employing satellite, telephone and radio networking technology to serve the health communication and information needs of countries in the developing world. http://www.data.com/issue/981021/people.html For starters, the staff of Satellife had to seek out and master technologies cheap enough for users in the world's poorest countries but reliable enough to deliver vital medical information fast. And the organization didn't have the funds that corporate IT departments have for equipment and software-so it used free and open-source software to link users to forums. And as the Internet became a more vital tool, Satellife had to make sure that users without browsers could still get information via the Web. It also used second-hand gear where possible and relied on research institutes and discussion groups, rather than high-priced consultants, for advice. The Littlefish Health Project Project Vision: "To create a user friendly patient information and recall system on an open source basis with the focus on use by community based primary health care health organisations in the developing world or remote and rural areas or areas of need. (And Daniel L. Johnson has written a paper on free software in medical information management.) The Community Broadcasting Association of Australia (CBAA) An impassioned but carefully put together argument for use of Linux by the CBAA. Arguing on both technical and ethical grounds, most of this is directly relevant to development organisations. The open source movement, and Linux is particular, are massive volunteer non-profit projects which share the spirit of community media. It's a radical alternative movement creating successful mainstream software. In fact, it's the same movement that produced the software that the internet revolution depends on. Now the movement has produced a cutting edge technology which suits the CBAA's needs far better than the commercial competition. The technology is Linux. A Linux server is one the CBAA could be proud of. (Also mentioned in a Newswire story on the politics of software.) _________________________________________________________________ Conclusion and Recommendations The free software movement embodies principles consistent with those of Community Aid Abroad and Oxfam International. Free software products are tools which fit the needs of Oxfam International members, in many cases better than alternative proprietary products. It is therefore recommended that: * Development organisations should include software in their policies on ethical purchasing and appropriate technology; such policies should encourage the use of free software and open protocols. * Development organisations should encourage and assist project partners in the deployment of software systems that will enable them to "take control of their own destiny", and to reduce their dependence on the developed world. They should consider the major advantages free software has in this area. * Development organisations should ultimately try to free themselves from the shackles of proprietary software. Danny Yee (danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au) _________________________________________________________________ The author is one of the Community Aid Abroad webmasters, a board member of Electronic Frontiers Australia, and an employee of Sydney University. But the opinions expressed in this paper are personal and do not necessarily reflect the policies of any of these organisations. Thanks to Cameron Tampion, Mike Gifford, Charlie Brady, Greg Taylor, Ronni Martin, and Richard Stallman for feedback on this document. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 05:49:40 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rejin NS) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:19:40 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] e-governance Message-ID: <001701c11e3b$97e2a000$0e00a8c0@PITSOL> Hello, It is disturbing to note that e-governance initiatives are taken without visualising the whole picture. I think the Kerala IT Mission is using GNU/Linux. Andhra Pradesh has also e-governance systems in place. So at the end, will we have another e-governance initiative for India as a whole? Is it not logical for us to develop interoperable systems? Obviously there will be common functionality. Who is the right agency for overseeing this? Who will set standards? Along with communicating our thoughts to the Govt. of WB, should we not impress upon the Central Govt.? Regards, Rejin. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 06:01:54 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:31:54 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <86hevnyx1o.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> References: <86hevnyx1o.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <20010806113154.A1590@debianut.ekmnet> [Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 09:31:55AM +0530] Khuzaima A. Lakdawala : > The Free Software Movement is not in the Marketing business. > We are in the Advocacy business, lest we forget. Well put, we now need people talking more about *free* software. The Open Source guys say that talk is nonsensical, they say show us the code...a sure fire recipe for disaster ! Shall we go to the schools and colleges and talk about the GNU, about *freedom and computing* ? -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 05:10:46 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:40:46 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <01080610152800.11300@athena> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 at 10:15, Satish Babu wrote: In the first place, I should thank Raju for coming out with a powerful letter. I believe that there should be a local group who can take up this issue and lobby the government. Are we aware of any individual or groups in WB who can highlight the dangers of this tie-up? Can we operate through local NGOs? After working in NGOs for long, I think NGOs can be powerful allies in this struggle. This seems to be a viable method in the local level to put pressure on the WB government. I also think that FSF-India should be prepared, with appropriate tools (at the very least, a dossier of documents that explain our position, and quoting examples of governments of other provinces and countries) to respond to such situations at short notice. Exactly. Raju's letter is powerfully drafted. I wonder if such a letter should be sent by snail-mail or e-mail? Would clogging up the CM's mailbox brand us as cyber terrorists? Why not we have a web page for all those interested to sign? We shall keep the page for a period of one week or ten days and propagate the news to all the mailing lists inviting people to sign the document. After the specified period, we can submit a mass memorandum to the WB government. In the meantime, FSF Board can work out the dossier of documents. Any thoughts? -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 06:02:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:32:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] GNU/Linux in Schools from a guy in school In-Reply-To: <001101c11c9d$2714c3c0$0cc96565@dreammachine>; from varun@cilmail.com on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 02:30:11PM +0530 References: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> <20010802162112.A778@orion> <001101c11c9d$2714c3c0$0cc96565@dreammachine> Message-ID: <20010806113257.A13907@mailandnews.com> On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 02:30:11PM +0530, Varun Sinha wrote: > > But the truth is my principal isn't all that concerned about free software; > he is much more interested in setting up a full-fledged computer system at a > fraction of the cost it would cost him to do so using proprietary software > (we don't have one right now). A school is a place where people are supposed to learn some thing. What is the use of having all the non free software in the world in a school, when you are not even free to find out how it works (you are a pirate if you try). Ofcource, the school can boast of a >>full-fledged computer system<<, but students are not going to benefit. So I feel that your principal is wrong. FREEDOM is the main (and only reason for a private school atleast) to switch to free software. > Besides the fact that the software itself is > a lot more cost-effective, the hardware costs would also be greatly reduced. True, but suppose someone donates a whole lab to the school, but with non free software. It is going to be of very little use to students. > > The only downside I can think of is training and support. People who know > about proprietary software are dime-a-dozen You mean people who know to click a mouse button and cause a drop down menu to drop down. Such knowlege is not worth teaching in a school. > The point about using GUI for most tasks seems to make sense. It would be > alot easier for people, especially teachers (students might be able to) to > work with GUI. I feel that the choice of interface should be left to the user. > > My entire opinion is based mainly with my school in mind, maybe the > situation is different in other places. A school is not more important at the students who expect to learn something from the school. It may be good to be patriotic about a school but not at the cost of its students. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 08:34:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:04:52 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <3B6CD73E.1020604@iiitmk.org>; from director@iiitmk.org on Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 10:48:54AM +0530 References: <3B6CD73E.1020604@iiitmk.org> Message-ID: <20010806140451.C1207@orion> > The best way to promote FS is through a constructive approach. Pointing > out failures of non-FS to deliver and how we are being taken for a ride > is not going to take us far. We must highlight FS successes, educate the > yougsters, the decision makers, etc. True. > Decision makers often have little time and work under all kinds of > pressures. They often need experts to advice and this they dont get. > Instead of projecting Fredom, Democracy, etc. , we have to educate on > what is in the national and society's interests. If it sounds too much Freedom and Democracy are two major interests of our nation. > We can evolve some healWe have to remember that being in this world, > free and 'not-free' will continue to exist - as humans there will always Fight for freedom never ends. > iv) Proporietory solutions that guarantee freedom from undesirable > cookies and with known input and output formats. so that these systems > can be expanded by intergration with other systems. > v) Proprietory solutions with unknown input / output formats and > guarantee of freedom from user unknown cookies. > vi) Proprietory software with unknown cookies should have the lowest > priority in the category. Is it ever possible to make sure that Proprietory solutions doesnt have 'undesirable cookies' ? Especially if the solution comes from US. (Which has got a very 'clean' history of putting malicious components in what they export.) > guidelines. We also msut oppose (as the Europeans are doing) software > patents. It is a minefield not unlike the issues under bioiversity and > traditional herbal medicine practices. we must develop a national > consensus and against software patents. Yes, we must. And consensus against NDA in educational institutions. > I am opening an Authoring Web site at iiitmk.ac.in > > We shall start posing a number issues concerning specific learning > modules. Experts may send us contents that we shall titch together as > courses. > > Send me any amount of problems, solutions, mini-projects (for students > practice) in FS that I can use for classrooms and freely distribute to > others. Let us give a FS learning platform for colleges to use. In > particular I am looking for the following courses. It is an excellent idea and there are few other initiatives like this. They may also join. www.andamooka.org is one of them. > 1. Data Structures and Algorithms. > 2. Programming Languages - with examples from C, C++ and Java. (Big US > Schools use Scheme as the base languages as best suited for teaching. > Java may be as good. Give your opinion). I prefer Scheme/Guile and Python. Python is excellent learning tool. > 3. Operating Systems - with text as Applied Operating Systems by > Silbetschatz, et al - and prefer GNU/Linux and C as the learning support. > 4. Web Technologies - over Apache, Sun Java, Mozilla, etc. > 5. RDBMS, ODBC based applications, OODB - what FS? PostgresSQL and MySQL > We also need to prepare a School Learning Platforms over FS. Need to > define some role for IT in school. Not of the kind it is today. Yes it is an important area of work. > Can any one help? The developed courses will be available a Free Courseware. (Under GNU FDL ?) > Unless we begin teaching young impressionable age group the technology > using, we shall not have the stamina to do the long-distance. True. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:42:59 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:12:59 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] Microsoft and GPL Message-ID: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 | Last Updated 11:19am Why is Microsoft Attacking the GPL? by Bryan Pfaffenberger , 27-June-2001 Microsoft sees a threat to its underlying business model, which explains the virulence of this particular round of FUD. First it was "un-American"; now it's a "virus", a "cancer" and -- are you ready for this -- "Pac-Man". Microsoft's high-profile, expensive and carefully planned attack on open-source software is swinging into high gear; so is speculation about exactly what the company hopes to achieve. Typical is the conclusion of an analyst quoted by CNET News.com: Linux has emerged as a "spoiler that will prevent Microsoft from achieving a dominant position" in the server operating system market. By means of an especially virulent FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) campaign, Microsoft hopes to scare companies away from Linux and toward Microsoft's newest offering, Windows XP. So far as it goes, this analysis is surely correct. Viewed from the perspective of business history, however, this FUD campaign seems mysteriously out of proportion with the threat actually posed by its supposed object, Linux. Sure, Linux is a threat, and that's especially true now that Linux is being so strongly backed by Microsoft's remaining market opponents, including IBM. But the FUD campaign isn't directed against Linux. Aside from occasional digs at Linux, the campaign is directed against the licensing scheme, called the General Public License (GPL), that Linux uses. To be sure, the analysts have an explanation for this, too. The GPL is controversial even within the Open Source community, so you attack Linux by attacking the GPL. But I think there's more to it. Here's my argument, in a nutshell: Business history teaches the following lesson: When a market-dominating firm engages in a FUD campaign of this magnitude, it's not merely because they're scared of competition from a new market entrant. Often, it's because the new market entrant is seen to challenge the business model that has enabled the market-dominant firm to make huge gobs of money. I believe the GPL does pose a threat to Microsoft's business model, and that's why the free software licensing scheme is under such concerted attack. Specifically, the GPL threatens Microsoft's ability to preserve what economists and legal scholars (as well as the judge in the Microsoft antitrust case) call the "application barrier to entry" -- the primary means by which Microsoft has been able to establish and preserve commanding dominance in its core markets. I'll make this argument by recounting the story of the archetypical FUD campaign, IBM's 1970s-era effort to discredit the upstart Amdahl Corporation. I'll also examine some of the evidence that's come to light -- some of it from the lips of none other than Gates himself -- since Microsoft's FUD campaign started. Let me apologize in advance for the length of this essay; the issues are too important to be glossed over. But I've included lots of subheadings so you can skim around, if you like. Classical FUD: IBM vs. Amdahl When ex-IBM executive Gene Amdahl founded Amdahl Corporation in 1970, he reflected gloomily that the new company would soon become the target of an aggressive IBM marketing strategy, which Amdahl termed "fear, uncertainty, and doubt" (FUD). As subsequent events affirmed, Amdahl's prediction was right on the money, and IBM's FUD campaign nearly put Amdahl out of business. IBM in the 1970s was huge profits with little incentive to innovate. Here's the background. IBM's mid-century executives, like those of other manufacturing firms, knew perfectly well that maximum profits follow from a "leasing-only, no-sales" policy; as economists have since theoretically demonstrated, such a policy maximizes revenues because it keeps secondary goods off the market. But US antitrust prosecution, culminating in a 1956 consent decree, forced IBM to sell as well as lease its computers. For federal regulators, the consent decree was a hollow victory. IBM neatly side-stepped the regulatory framework by means of measures such as net pricing, in which the cost of IBM installation labor was bundled into the price of IBM computer systems; customers who wished to purchase non-IBM, third-party peripherals were thus forced to pay two installation fees -- which meant that most of them chose to stay with IBM's equipment. And when IBM installed new equipment, the company generally required its customers to surrender the old equipment for "rehabilitation". Measures such as net pricing were combined with a quiet, low-level FUD campaign, which was carried out by the firm's salespeople while they were in the field. IT managers were told, "Sure, you can switch to the competitor's product, but we can't guarantee your system any more, you'll have to pay the highest per-incident charges for repairs, and we can't guarantee that our components will function correctly in the future." In other words, you're taking a dive off a cliff into the unknown, and it's going to cost your company money, and later it may cost you your job. These well-honed tactics led more than a few computing managers to agree with the famous dictum, "You'll never lose your job by choosing IBM." By means of net pricing and FUD, IBM managed to side-step antitrust regulation and retained control of the secondary market. With almost obscene profits and rapid growth, all was well at IBM, except there was little incentive to innovate. Amdahl Forms his own Company As Amdahl watched IBM's processors fall behind the technical curve, he grew increasingly concerned. At the same time that IBM was encouraging companies to move more of their business operations to IBM mainframes, the company was failing to deliver the processing horsepower that would be needed to meet customer's needs. Amdahl proposed a series of new, higher performance processors, but failed to win approval from IBM executives to develop them. Intimately familiar with IBM's processor design, Amdahl knew that it was possible to create a new generation of processors that beat IBM's products in price as well as performance. So the young engineer quit IBM and started his own company -- which still exists, incidentally, even though Amdahl is no longer associated with it. Amdahl's plans must have terrified IBM executives. Unlike IBM's ineffective and increasingly marginalized competitors, Amdahl was intimately familiar with IBM technology and proposed to manufacture IBM-compatible CPUs. If Amdahl succeeded, IBM would be transformed, in effect, into a peripheral manufacturer -- and with the loss of its control over the central processing unit would come a concomitant destruction of its highly profitable business model. The Microcode Factor What was wrong with IBM's processors? In case it has been a while since your last electrical engineering class, here's the background. A computer's central processing unit (CPU) is designed to perform a fixed number of computational operations; the list of such operations is called the CPU's instruction set. At the time, the fastest processors implemented their instruction sets by means of "hard-wired" circuits, that is, circuits built into the physical structure of the processor. When IBM designed the new series of System/360 computers, the first product line to include a range of compatible machines, the decision was made to implement the instruction set by means of microcode. In brief, microcode uses software, typically encoded in a bank of read-only memory, to implement the lion's share of the CPU's instruction set. The use of microcode enabled IBM engineers to design a single processor that could be used in all the System/360 products, from small to large. The marketing potential was enormous. For example, one of the earliest System/360 computers was offered with a microcode adjustment that enabled the computer to emulate an earlier IBM machine, the 1401. However, the use of microcode came at a price: diminished processor efficiency. Amdahl knew that he could easily beat IBM's processor performance by creating processors hard-wired with the System/360's instruction set. Amdahl Corporation's processors, accordingly, did not use IBM's microcode architecture; instead, the firm created less expensive and more powerful processors that gained economy and efficiency from hard-wiring the instruction set into the CPU. Employing an efficient, low-cost implementation of IBM's System/360 instruction set, Amdahl's first processors appeared in 1975; they undercut IBM's price-performance points yet they were fully compatible with IBM software, in which the firm's customers had made significant investments. The result was tremendous enthusiasm among Amdahl's potential customers who were quite ready to break with IBM -- even to the extent of paying IBM for components and services that weren't actually received -- if the result meant they had the processing power they needed. In 1976, Amdahl released the V/6 processor, which offered three times the performance of IBM's most powerful CPU. FUD Kicks into High Gear Faced with a threat to its underlying business model, IBM took its FUD campaign to an unprecedented level, one that involved public statements, a host of new product announcements and technological changes that seem to have been aimed squarely at Amdahl's upstart processors. In 1977, just as Amdahl Corporation seemed poised to take over a significant percentage of the processor market, IBM announced the 3033, a processor that -- IBM claimed -- would go head-to-head with the best Amdahl could offer. But IBM did not merely announce a new processor. The firm also announced revisions to the System/360 instruction set. In attempting to address the Amdahl factor, IBM scientists discovered they could improve processor efficiency by adding fourteen instructions to the System/360 instruction set. (This is quite an interesting "discovery," since it has been proven time and again since then that reducing the instruction set, not expanding it, is the best way to improve processor performance.) IBM executives and engineers vehemently denied that the microcode changes originated with Amdahl in mind, but the changes certainly had an anti-Amdahl effect. The planned changes meant that Amdahl's hard-wired processors would not continue to be compatible until Amdahl discovered the changes that IBM actually made and figured out a way to implement them. At the worst, Amdahl would have to go through the very expensive and time-consuming process of redesigning his processors. For its part, IBM made it abundantly clear to all concerned that the firm had no intention of disclosing the technical specifications of the fourteen new instructions. Amdahl would have to wait until the 3033 appeared, when he could legally obtain one of the processors and discover the nature of the new instructions through reverse engineering. From that point, it could be months or years before Amdahl would be able to release a new processor that would be compatible with the 3033. As if to pour salt in the wounds, IBM warned darkly, and publicly, that the firm felt quite free to implement additional microcode changes whenever doing so made sense for its customers. The 3033's preannouncement took the wind out of Amdahl's sails. Orders plummeted, and the few remaining customers demanded contractual guarantees that Amdahl's processors would remain compatible with IBM's. Most customers decided to sit tight until the 3033 hit the market, one year later. When the 3033 was released in 1978, the processor turned out to be inferior to Amdahl's V/6, but it did offer better performance than previous IBM processors, and it was an IBM processor. The pent-up demand for high-performance processors unleashed a deluge of orders, to the tune of $6 billion, and IBM was forced for the first time to develop a lottery program so that it could parcel out the scarce processors fairly. Although the new processor turned out to be technically inferior to Amdahl's products -- in fact, IBM's processors did not equal Amdahl's price/performance points until five years later -- Amdahl's sales declined sharply. By 1979, Amdahl was but a niche player in the mainframe industry, surviving only by means of a capital infusion from Fujitsu, Inc. Meanwhile IBM's System/370 mainframes had captured 97 percent of the market. Why the GPL Terrifies Microsoft My analysis of the 1970s IBM campaign against Amdahl suggests the following: FUD campaigns step up in virulence when the FUD-perpetrating firm sees a threat to its core business model. What's Microsoft's core business model, and how could the GPL, a mere licensing scheme, pose a meaningful threat to such a gigantic, powerful corporation? My take on Microsoft's business model is, in brief: * * Microsoft's core business model relies on an at-all-costs defense of its overwhelming market dominance in end-user operating systems, because this dominance is the lever by which the company hopes to achieve all of its myriad other ambitions, including its ambitions in the server market. * * To defend its overwhelming market dominance in end-user operating systems, Microsoft must discourage or prevent the formation of a critical-mass pool of non-Microsoft end-user applications. People don't switch to a different end-user operating system until there's a sufficiently large pool of applications from which to draw. * * To prevent pools of non-Microsoft applications from forming, Microsoft likes to appropriate what it calls "commodity protocols" (off-the-shelf, public protocols such as HTML, JavaScript, CSS and many more), and add proprietary extensions that prevent the formation of competing application pools. To grasp this model's implications firmly, consider Judge Jackson's findings in the Microsoft antitrust case. Jackson did not rule against Microsoft -- as so many people unfortunately think -- because Microsoft made a better browser, gave it away for free and trounced Netscape in the marketplace. Sure, Microsoft wants the browser platform, for all kinds of reasons. But what really terrified Microsoft executives, I believe, were the all-but-forgotten, pie-in-the-sky plans that Andreesen & Co. once made to use Netscape as the foundation for a new, network-savvy, non-Microsoft operating system and application pool. (I'll bet you didn't know this, but Netscape came up with what amounts to the .NET idea long before it ever occurred to those master innovators in Redmond.) Equally terrifying to Microsoft executives was Java, and for the same reason -- it could be used to create a non-Microsoft application pool. In both cases, noted Judge Jackson, Microsoft used "embrace and extend" not only to discourage a competitor but, more importantly, to prevent the formation of a competing application pool. Why the GPL Threatens Microsoft's Core Business Model Still with me? Here's why Microsoft is attacking the GPL: * * Microsoft can't play its "embrace and extend" game with GPL-licensed software because the company can't appropriate and modify the code. If Linux had been released under the BSD license, Microsoft would have probably already released a version of Linux, Linux++ or Linux# or L-Nux, with a variety of maddeningly incompatible oddities that taken together would make it even more difficult to develop applications for Linux. * * A GPL-licensed application pool is indeed forming around Linux, and Microsoft can't figure out how to attack it. You can't attack the companies, because -- as Eazel recently proved -- the software's still around, even if the company shuts down or gives up on the product. >From the Microsoft perspective, GPL-licensed software is like those monsters from "The Night of the Living Dead": they just keep coming back at you. Doubtful? Read this: Mr. Gates made the following statement last week to a CNET News.com reporter: "The ecosystem where you have free software and commercial software -- and customers always get to decide which they use -- that's a very important and healthy ecosystem", Gates told the interviewer. But the GPL, Gates says, "breaks that cycle -- that is, it makes it impossible for a commercial company to use any of that work or build on any of that work. So what you saw with TCP/IP or Sendmail or the browser could never happen. We believe there should be free software and commercial software; there should be a rich ecosystem that works around that." If Mr. Gates can forgive me for putting words in his mouth, here's my translation: "There should be free software that we can appropriate and modify -- we just love BSD stuff -- as well as Microsoft software. That's very healthy (for us), because we can use this system and our embrace and extend tricks to keep competing application pools from forming. But we can't do that with GPL-licensed software. GPL-licensed software is not enriching for Microsoft; it scares the living daylights out of us, in fact." In the coming weeks, you're likely to see Microsoft pressure to force the U.S. government to disallow the use of the GPL as a license for software created with public funds. If my analysis is correct, the decision should go the other way -- the government should require anyone developing software with government funds to release the software under the GPL. It's the only way to ensure there's a meaningful public commons of freely available software that can't be manipulated for predatory purposes. Bryan Pfaffenberger is Associate Professor of Technology, Culture and Communication at the University of Virginia, in Charlottesville, VA. Copyright 2001 Specialized Systems Consultants, Inc. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 08:30:37 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Joy Chatterjee) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 14:00:37 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [Reader-list] Re: [LIG] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <01080612485801.00795@krishna> References: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010806134757.009fc060@mail.sarai.net> "Where as in case of GNU/Linux anyone can add the Indian Language layer depending on the needs." Its all theory but in reality MS Office has a hindi version but any Linux software do not have any hindi version, Quark Express is also working on a hindi version but Linux doesn't even have any publishing software like QuarkExpress (and also web designing software), forget about Indian versions. It is more over frustrating to see that there is no alternative of server end bitstream technology for easy viewing of indian web pages in Linux. But truth is IE has! So I don't know how Linux people claim that Linux has more scope in Indian language, where as proprietary models are already working on it !!! Joy At 12:48 PM 8/6/01 +0530, Prakash Advani wrote: >Dear Raju, > >This is execellent if everyone can send out this document to their respective >state goverments. I hope modifications to the documents are allowed and >encouraged GPL ? ;-) > >I would also recommend you add something about localisation issues. In case >of Proprietory operating systems localisation is decided by the company only >if they see $$$$ coming in not in the interest of the people. Where as in >case of GNU/Linux anyone can add the Indian Language layer depending on the >needs. In fact all the localisation efforts so far have been started with >Goverments funds (CDAC/NCST). By putting their efforts GNU/Linux they funds >would be better utilised. > >Regards >Prakash > >On Sunday 05 August 2001 12:23, Raju Mathur wrote: > > Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State government > > which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I am making it as > > general-purpose as possible so that more people are willing to sign > > it: this is not a time for family squabbles. I'd appreciate any > > additions/enhancements which can be made to this letter. URL's > > highlighting the points discussed would also be a great idea. Not > > being an activist, I cannot suggest the proper methods for getting > > this letter signed and circulated to the right authorities. > > >_______________________________________________ >Reader-list mailing list >Reader-list@sarai.net >http://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 02:43:40 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajagopal C.V) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:13:40 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Raju Mathur wrote: : We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom proponents : in India are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans : to base your complete e-governance infrastructure on a single foreign : company's products. The history of Microsoft has shown that it has : very little regard for serving any objectives except its own, which : does not augur well for the future of in particular : and our country in general. : : We request you to kindly consider the following points before making : this relationship permanent: : : 3. Internal security : : Microsoft is a company owned by American citizens, having its base of : operations in the USA and subject to US laws. A clear effect of this : was evidenced in 1999 when it was discovered that some of the security : and cryptography functions built into Microsoft's operating systems : were subject to be used by the US National Security Agency (NSA) : without explicit permission from either Microsoft or the user of the : software. : : This is one lone ``feature'' of Microsoft software which came to light : due to the vigilance of a concerned individual. However it is quite : possible (indeed, likely) that there are other ways in which Microsoft : products are designed and constructed to permit illegal access by US : security agencies. As concerned Indians, we would wish to be secure : in the knowledge that the software handling our critical information : about Government and individuals will not permit foreign Governments : to spy upon, or, even worse, arbitrarily modify it without the consent : or knowledge of our elected representatives and the Government : machine. The FSF-India should immediately respond to this challenge posed by the MS in placing the WB people in a software trap. Since the FSF India has its office in Trivandrum where a lot of Central Committee members of the Communist Party of India are also staying, the FSF office bears can meet these top party functionaries and explain the points raised in the Raju Mathur's letter to them. The party leaders, I hope, will definitely prevail upon the left government in West Bengal and persuade the latter to desist from its latest move. Most of the politicians are totally unaware of the threats a proprietary software can pose to the public. If need be the FSF-India can immediately convene a press conference to alert( or enlighten) the press on the points highlighted by Raju Mathur. -- Rajagopal CV ____________________________________________________________________ GPG - Fingerprint: 87CF B2EE BE47 A69E 97F4 F891 96C2 90D4 F568 438A GPG - public key http://www.river-valley.com/gpg/cvr3.gpg ____________________________________________________________________ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:40:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:10:56 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] MIT's Open Courseware Message-ID: MIT to make nearly all course materials available free on the World Wide Web Unprecedented step challenges 'privatization of knowledge' APRIL 4, 2001 CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- The Massachusetts Institute of Technology--in an unprecedented step in world-wide education--announced today it plans to make the materials for nearly all its courses freely available on the Internet over the next ten years. The website for the project--MIT OpenCourseWare--would include material such as lecture notes, course outlines, reading lists, and assignments for each course. Over the next decade, the project expects to provide materials for over 2,000 courses across MIT's entire curriculum--in architecture and planning, engineering, humanities, arts, social sciences, management, and science. MIT President Charles M. Vest said of the program: "MIT OpenCourseWare is a bold move that will change the way the Web is used in higher education. With the content posted for all to use, it will provide an extraordinary resource, free of charge, which others can adapt to their own needs. We see it as source material that will support education worldwide, including innovations in the process of teaching and learning itself." Professor Steven Lerman, chair of the MIT faculty, said that the project stemmed both from enthusiasm for the opportunities that the Internet affords for wide-spread sharing of educational ideas, and from concern over the growing "privatization of knowledge." He noted that many universities, including MIT, see the Internet as a means of delivering revenue-generating distance education. But, he said, "we also need to take advantage of the tremendous power of the Internet to build on the tradition at MIT and in American higher education of open dissemination of educational materials and innovations in teaching." The project would begin as a large-scale pilot program over the next two years, starting with the design of the software and services needed to support such a large endeavor, as well as protocols to monitor and assess its utilization by faculty and students at MIT and throughout the world. By the end of the two-year period, it is expected that materials for more than 500 courses would be available on the MIT OpenCourseWare (OCW) site. MIT sees a variety of benefits coming from the MIT OCW project: * Institutions around the world could make direct use of the MIT OCW materials as references and sources for curriculum development. These materials might be of particular value in developing countries that are trying to expand their higher education systems rapidly. * Individual learners could draw upon the materials for self-study or supplementary use. * The MIT OCW infrastructure could serve as a model for other institutions that choose to make similar content open and available. * Over time, if other universities adopt this model, a vast collection of educational resources will develop and facilitate widespread exchange of ideas about innovative ways to use those resources in teaching and learning. * MIT OCW will serve as a common repository of information and channel of intellectual activity that can stimulate educational innovation and cross-disciplinary educational ventures. The program will continue the tradition of MIT's leadership in educational innovation, as exemplified by the engineering science revolution in the 1960s. At that time, MIT engineering faculty radically revised their curricula and produced new textbooks that brought the tools of modern science, mathematics, and computing into the core of the engineering curriculum. As their students joined the engineering faculties of universities throughout the country, they took with them their own course notes from MIT, and spread the new approach to engineering education. In similar spirit, but with new technologies, MIT OCW will make it possible to quickly disseminate new knowledge and educational content in a wide range of fields. President Vest commented that the idea of OpenCourseWare is particularly appropriate for a research university such as MIT, where ideas and information move quickly from the laboratory into the educational program, even before they are published in textbooks. MIT believes that implementation of OCW will complement and stimulate innovation in ways that may not even be envisioned at this point. "We expect that MIT OCW will raise the tide of educational innovation within MIT and elsewhere," said MIT Provost Robert A. Brown. "By making up-to-date educational content widely available," he said, "OCW will focus faculty efforts on teaching and learning on their campuses. It also will facilitate a new style of national and global collaboration in education through the sharing of educational content and the potential of telecommunications for real-time interactions." The concept of MIT OpenCourseWare was born from deliberations of a study group chartered by MIT's Council on Educational Technology. The Council, a group of educational leaders from throughout MIT, asked the study group to consider ways to use Internet technology to enhance education within MIT as well as MIT's influence on education on a global scale. The group was composed of faculty and staff from MIT, and was assisted by consultants from Booz-Allen & Hamilton (BAH), who are helping with organizational aspects of the project. The Booz-Allen team was led by BAH Vice President Reginald Van Lee. Mr. Van Lee, an MIT alumnus, said "MIT continues its role as the preeminent, global leader in the development and dissemination of new ideas and knowledge. We are excited to have contributed to this innovative and important step in the advancement of higher education." CONTACT: Patti Richards MIT Lab for Computer Science Phone: 617-253-8923 prichards@lcs.mit.edu _________________________________________________________________ MIT OpenCourseWare - Fact Sheet 1. What is MIT OpenCourseWare? The idea behind MIT OpenCourseWare (MIT OCW) is to make MIT course materials that are used in the teaching of almost all undergraduate and graduate subjects available on the web, free of charge, to any user anywhere in the world. MIT OCW will radically alter technology-enhanced education at MIT, and will serve as a model for university dissemination of knowledge in the Internet age. Such a venture will continue the tradition at MIT and in American higher education of open dissemination of educational materials, philosophy, and modes of thought, and will help lead to fundamental changes in the way colleges and universities engage the web as a vehicle for education. MIT OpenCourseWare will provide the content of, but is not a substitute for, an MIT education. The most fundamental cornerstone of the learning process at MIT is the interaction between faculty and students in the classroom, and amongst students themselves on campus. 2. What course materials would be available on OpenCourseWare? MIT OCW will make available the core teaching materials that are used in MIT classes. Depending on the particular class or the style in which the course is taught, this could include material such as lecture notes, course outlines, reading lists, and assignments for each course. More technically sophisticated content will be encouraged. 3. In what format will the course materials be placed on the web? The MIT OCW website will be coherent in design but flexible enough to accommodate many different types of courses, lectures, seminars, etc. The design and searching capabilities will help users locate materials by discipline and subject area, type of materials, name of individual faculty or author, and type of instruction. 4. How does OpenCourseWare differ from other types of web-based education, including distance learning? Many individual faculty at MIT and other universities already use the web extensively to make standard course materials available to their students. Some colleges and universities now require a website for every class. But, to a large extent, these websites are designed for and access is provided only to the students of these institutions. MIT OCW is an unprecedented institutional effort of a much broader magnitude, as the goal is to provide the course materials free and open to the world. Nothing of this scale has ever been attempted before. MIT OCW is not a distance learning initiative. Distance learning involves the active exchange of information between faculty and students, with the goal of obtaining some form of a credential. Increasingly, distance learning is also limited to those willing and able to pay for materials or course delivery. MIT OCW is not meant to replace degree granting higher education. Rather, the goal is to provide the content that supports an education. 5. Who will use OpenCourseWare and what are the potential benefits? The materials on the OCW site will be open and freely available worldwide for non-commercial purposes such as research and education, providing an extraordinary resource, free of charge, which others can adapt to their own needs. Some of the anticipated benefits are: * Faculty at colleges and universities around the world can use the OCW materials to develop new curricula and specific courses. These materials might be of particular value in developing countries that are trying to expand their higher education systems rapidly. * Individual learners could draw upon the materials for self-study or supplementary use. * The OCW infrastructure could serve as a model for other institutions that choose to make similar content open and available. * Over time, if other universities adopt this model, a vast collection of educational resources would develop and could facilitate widespread exchange of ideas about innovative ways to use those resources in teaching and learning. * Within MIT, OCW would serve as a common repository of information and a channel of intellectual activity that would stimulate educational innovation and cross-disciplinary educational ventures. 6. Are faculty required to participate in MIT OCW? Participation of MIT faculty in MIT OCW will be voluntary, although judging by the number who already actively utilize the web as part of their teaching, we expect that within 10 years, over 2000 MIT courses will be available on the MIT OCW website. Resources will be available to provide teaching assistants and professional production support for developing and maintaining the MIT OCW website. MIT will commit to the continuous support of the MIT OCW educational environment. 7. Are there other experiments in educational technology at MIT? MIT is undertaking a number of ambitious projects to enhance and potentially transform the educational experience through the use of new technologies. These projects are stimulated and supported by MIT's Council on Educational Technology and by Project I-Campus, a collaboration between MIT and Microsoft Research. Listed below are examples of such projects: * TEAL: The TEAL Project will establish a technology enabled active learning environment for large enrollment physics courses, which will serve as a national model for such instruction. Building on the experience of other universities, TEAL will merge lectures, recitations, and hands-on laboratory experience into a technologically and collaboratively rich experience. Software and teaching materials developed in this effort will be made available nationally at little or no cost, in the hopes of motivating a national effort along these lines. * WebLab: MIT students can now test and probe fragile, microscopic electronic structures via a novel online lab that can be accessed from dorm rooms and other locations 24 hours a day. Although the lab's focus is the study of microelectronic devices, WebLab has the potential to revolutionize science and engineering education by providing online access to state-of-the-art labs. * ArchNet: The ArchNet project is based on the idea that educational technology should be employed to create and enhance learning communities. All community members will have individual workspaces in ArchNet which provide them with personalized entry points to the system, and which also allow them to represent themselves and their work to other members of the community. Learning community environments of this sort will be very widely used in professional education in the coming years. MIT is also engaged in several collaborative and distance learning projects around the world. In the future the technologies that are being developed to support these efforts will also be utilized to enhance OCW materials. Some of these projects include: * MIT's Design Studio of the Future (DSOF): The DSOF is an interdisciplinary effort between the School of Architecture and Planning and the School of Engineering that focuses on geographically distributed electronic design and work group collaboration. As a design project moves along, aspects of the work can be shared, discussed, changed, and implemented through electronic means. * MIT-Singapore Alliance: In November 1998, MIT joined in an alliance with the two leading research universities in Singapore--the National University of Singapore and Nanyang Technological University--to explore the application of information technology in the creation of a new global model for long-distance engineering education and collaborative research. * MIT's System Design and Management Program (SDM): MIT's first degree granting program offered through distance education, SDM provides students with expertise in both management sciences and engineering, specifically in the areas of system design and new product development. * Cambridge-MIT Institute: This is a new enterprise between MIT and Cambridge University in England that will develop educational and research programs designed to stimulate the development of new technologies, to encourage entrepreneurship, and to improve productivity and competitiveness. A key component will be an undergraduate student exchange program. 8. What intellectual property policies will govern OCW materials? The policies toward the intellectual property created for MIT OCW will be clear and consistent with other policies for scholarly material used in education. Faculty will retain ownership of most materials prepared for MIT OCW, following the MIT policy on textbook authorship. MIT will retain ownership only when significant use has been made of the Institute's resources. If student course work is placed on the MIT OCW site, then copyright in the work remains with the student. 9. What is the projected timetable for OpenCourseWare? If funding comes through as hoped for, we would begin a pilot program in the fall of 2001, with a goal of making over 500 courses available on the World Wide Web over the next 2 1/2 years. Over the next decade, the project expects to provide over 2000 courses across MIT's entire curriculum--in architecture and planning, engineering, humanities, arts, social sciences, management, and science. 10. How will OpenCourseWare be funded? We are currently seeking outside funding partners to help cover the start-up and annual costs of the project for the first decade of operation. We anticipate that development costs during the initial phase of the project will be between $7.5 million and $10 million per year. _________________________________________________________________ MIT OpenCourseWare - Faculty Views Paul Penfield, Jr. Dugald C. Jackson Professor of Electrical Engineering in the Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, and affiliated with MIT's Microsystems Technology Laboratories. Comment from Professor Penfield: Everybody knows that the way to make progress in science is by using the best results of others -- "standing on the shoulders of giants" is one way of expressing this idea. That's why we publish scientific results. OCW will let the same thing happen in education. I'm personally looking forward to having my ideas used and improved on by others. _________________________________________________________________ Jonathan A. King Professor of Molecular Biology Comment from Professor King: This initiative is particularly valuable for courses covering emerging new areas of knowledge, as well as intersecting disciplines. Having spent many years developing a course on protein folding that served the needs of biochemists, chemists, chemical engineers and computational biologists, I am delighted that this work will be made available to a far broader audience. _________________________________________________________________ Olivier J. Blanchard Class of 1941 Professor Deparment Head, Department of Economics Comment from Professor Blanchard: A clear case of a small effort, and large benefits. I very much hope that our collective lecture notes become the most popular net destination. _________________________________________________________________ Shigeru Miyagawa Professor of Linguistics and Kochi Prefecture-John Manjiro Professor of Japanese Language and Culture Comment from Professor Miyagawa: OCW reflects the idea that, as scholars and teachers, we wish to share freely the knowledge we generate through our research and teaching. While MIT may be better known for our research, with OCW, we wish to showcase the quality of our teaching. _________________________________________________________________ John Lienhard Professor of Mechanical Engineering Comment from Professor Lienhard: Why do I support OpenCourseWare? Last year, I posted my undergraduate heat transfer textbook on the web for no-charge distribution. It is a 700 page pdf file, fully hyperlinked, and also properly typeset. In the domestic book market, the cost for this book would be $85 for the hardback or $45 for the paperback. My aim, however, is to provide the knowledge to those who can't afford to buy the book. The book has been downloaded by users from around the globe. Those users include many professors and students at remote universities in the third world. But the book is also being downloaded by students at universities in the United States and engineers in domestic industry. So the reach of my ebook has been quite broad. I therefore have every reason to believe that MIT's OpenCourseWare Initiative will immediately gain such a worldwide reach, and that it will allow MIT to expand its influence to students, teachers, and technical professionals, domestically and, especially, in less-developed nations. _________________________________________________________________ Stephen C. Graves Abraham J. Siegel Professor of Management & Engineering Systems Co-director, Leaders for Manufacturing Program & System Design and Management Program Comment from Professor Graves: The OpenCourseWare initiative is a bold act of leadership by MIT to apply technology to foster a global learning community that conceivably will strengthen all components of our higher education system. =========================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:38:23 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:08:23 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] FAX Numbers of WB GOVT. Message-ID: <1055.192.168.0.4.997090703.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 at 10:15, Satish Babu wrote: > > > In the first place, I should thank Raju for coming out > with a > powerful letter. > > I believe that there should be a local group who can > take up > this issue and lobby the government. Are we aware of any > individual or groups in WB who can highlight the > dangers of > this tie-up? Can we operate through local NGOs? After > working > in NGOs for long, I think NGOs can be powerful allies > in this > struggle. > > This seems to be a viable method in the local level to > put pressure on the > WB government. > > I also think that FSF-India should be prepared, with > appropriate tools (at the very least, a dossier of > documents > that explain our position, and quoting examples of > governments > of other provinces and countries) to respond to such > situations at short notice. > > Exactly. > > Raju's letter is powerfully drafted. I wonder if such > a letter > should be sent by snail-mail or e-mail? Would clogging > up the > CM's mailbox brand us as cyber terrorists? > > Why not we have a web page for all those interested to > sign? We > shall keep the page for a period of one week or ten days > and > propagate the news to all the mailing lists inviting > people to sign the > document. > > After the specified period, we can submit a mass > memorandum to the WB > government. In the meantime, FSF Board can work out the > dossier of > documents. i posted this message two hours ago i donna what happened i am sending it again. Well we can Fax the letter signed by FSF india board Members to the higher officials immedialtely. Buddhadev Bhattacharya (Chief Minister): 0332215480 Mr Sitaram Yechuri in Delhi : 0113747483 conatacts on Linux-india site as coordinators Indranil Das Gupta :indradg@cal.vsnl.net.in Darshan Shah :darshan_shah@vsnl.com cheers S.Goswami ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:35:21 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:05:21 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] Korea Govt. Supports Linux Message-ID: Free Software in Korea: Part One -- The Microsoft Connection (Oct 4th, 06:05:46 ) By Randy Leganza, Special Korea Correspondent for Linux Today When Dwight Johnson of Linux Today asked in late July if I'd consider a doing an article on Linux in Korea, I had no idea the amount of time or the countless e-mails it would require. Even though there had been several recent stories in the Korean English press and the government's announced support for Linux in July, I grossly underestimated the "Linux in Korea" story. When the Korean government's Ministry of Information and Communication announced in late July that it would "provide government support for the development and proliferation of Linux," it was not only one of the first official endorsements by a national government of the free operating system but one of the largest defeats ever for Microsoft. To appreciate the Microsoft connection to the Korean government's embracing Linux requires relating events extending over two years. In the end, despite its best efforts, Microsoft Korea would not only fail to dominate the local word processor market it had targeted, it would suspend its "campus license" program and see its president suddenly resign. These days hardly a week goes by without Microsoft's local ventures being mentioned in the English language Korean dailies. But Microsoft's interest in Korea extends back at least 15 years with a partnership agreement in 1984 and a branch office opening in 1992. Over the years, Microsoft developed relationships with numerous Korean companies. Bill Gates has traveled to Korea several times. In 1994 Gates traveled to Korea to sign a source code licensing agreement with the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST). Then in June 1997 he traveled to Korea again to address the CIO Forum, a support group for Korea's CIOs organized by the Federation of Korean Information Industries. Microsoft's trouble with the Korean government first began to surface in October 1997 when the Korean Fair Trade Commission announced an investigation into Microsoft's business practices. This investigation mirrored that of the U.S. Department of Justice. (No resolution of this investigation has yet been seen in the local English language press.) While Korea was struggling in May 1998 to recover from its worst financial crisis in history, Steve Ballmer, then a Microsoft vice president, announced a $77 million software donation to Korean schools and institutions. Although Microsoft's gift was graciously accepted, some thought it mostly an attempt to get Korean students on the Microsoft gravy train. When queried at the time about making an investment comparable to those made by Hewlett-Packard and Intel, Ballmer reportedly said, "We think that an investment in knowledge is more important than any factory." Little did Korea know then what was up Ballmer's sleeve, nor did Ballmer then suspect that Microsoft would end up with egg on its face. At the time of Ballmer's announcement, the maker of the country's only indigenous word processor, Hangul and Computer Company (H & C), was nearly bankrupt because of the bootleg software market for its product, Hangul. Microsoft negotiated a bailout plan for the ailing company -- in exchange for a Microsoft investment, H & C announced it would cease development of the Hangul word processor and end support for it a year later. Only a month after Ballmer's announcement of the software gift, the deal was scheduled to be closed when, according to the plan, Bill Gates would fly in for a two day promotional tour. But as soon as it was announced, there was an immediate public outcry and the deal ran afoul of both the Korean populace and the Korean Fair Trade Commission. Suddenly Koreans saw Microsoft's offer for what it was -- an attempt to monopolize the local word processor market. They took it as an assault on their national pride, a sort of "cultural colonization". The Koreans had more than just their ire for Microsoft's business tactics on their side. The indigenous Hangul word processor could correctly display more than 11,000 combinations of the Korean language's phonetic characters, as contrasted with Microsoft Word's 2,500. And the Korean word processor could display western fonts as well. Bill Gates still flew in but left empty handed after a meeting with the Korean President. A grass roots fund raising campaign quickly began to revive H & C. The Korean Venture Business Association (KVBA) offered $7.3 million to save the company. Approximately two thirds of the investment would come from association members, and the remaining one third would come from contributions by Korean individuals. The company accepted the KVBA offer, wisely created a limited license version with a slashed price to encourage paying customers and called for the Korean government, itself a flagrant violator, to began a campaign against bootleg software. H & C survived and in September 1998 announced its plan to raise $7.3 million dollars in a public stock offering. Facing mounting opposition, but not to be out done, Microsoft continued with its aggressive drive to inundate Korean educational institutions with artificially cheap software. In August 1998, Microsoft released a Korean version of Windows 98 to an eager, but often disappointed, public and reported 27,000 copies sold within only the first four days, a figure comparable to Windows 95's sales. Although Microsoft had not been able to buy out its chief word processing Korean competitor, its marketing machine was undaunted. It vowed to improve the Korean Microsoft Word's ability to display the older Korean characters and began to hype its Korean Microsoft Word 2000 in January 1999. But Microsoft made a disastrous marketing miscalculation. While the schools and universities were getting bargain basement discounts to entice students onto the Microsoft gravy train, individual software buyers were still paying full price. In early 1999, local software resellers, squeezed mercilessly from both sides, denounced Microsoft's pricing strategy. The Korean retail marketplace is still mostly a mom and pop operation. These small chains and individual stores could not turn enough volume to warrant the large discounts that retail giants and OEMs obtain. In addition, these resellers were the target of a crackdown on bootleg software. They objected to Microsoft's alleged entrapment of bootleg resellers, a charge denied by Microsoft. The resellers went so far as to hold a rally to protest Microsoft's pricing policy. Then in mid May, the Korea Times published the results of a survey which reported that "87.2 percent said the Windows operating system is ``unsatisfactory'' but that they have no choice but to use it." The May 1999 resellers anti-Microsoft protest was accented when Hangul and Computer charged that Microsoft was "dumping," selling its wares at 10% of its market price. To this accusation, Microsoft responded (according to the Korea Herald), "We introduced the site license program, in which we sell our software package at cheap prices, to the Korean market to help spread the use of genuine software products among students." Microsoft also countered that H & C was guilty of its own accusations because they had slashed their price to less than $10 for their one year license version. The government said it would investigate. Microsoft finally relented and withdrew its "campus license" policy pending a final decision by the Korean government. Microsoft Korea had now suffered its second setback in its drive to dominate the Korean word processor market. Amidst all this negative attention, in June 1999, Microsoft released its Korean Microsoft Office 2000. As an answer to H & C's discounted one year license version of Hangul, Microsoft offered the Korean Microsoft Word 2000 with an annual subscription option of under $10. A Korea Herald article claimed it could now process 11,172 Korean syllables, 1.6 million old Korean characters and 27,000 Chinese characters. Meanwhile, the Korean government continued its crackdown on bootleg software. Even though government agencies were as guilty as everyone else, the crackdown on bootleg software was hurting Korea's schools far more than the government. Many schools were forced to suspend computer classes because they could not afford the software license fees. The Korean government was under pressure from all sides. Consumers and resellers complained that Microsoft's products were too expensive and that there was no alternative to Windows. The software industry wanted its license fees -- yet this unbudgeted expense was a monstrous burden on both small business and the educational system. Koreans wanted Hangul and Computer to survive -- yet they didn't want to appear anti-Microsoft and alienate another foreign business when their economy badly needed foreign investment. The logical alternative seemed to be software without burdensome license fees -- enter Linux! In July 1999, the very same day the Korean Ministry of Information and Communication announced it had formed a group to discuss support for Linux, the JoongAng Ilbo reported Microsoft Korea's President Kim Jae-min had abruptly resigned. Microsoft said the resignation was voluntary but some believed that he was held responsible for Microsoft Korea's failures over the past year. The government soon confirmed its support for Linux saying it would promote its use in public organizations. Ironically, hard on the heals of this announcement came the release of a Federation of Korean Industries' survey picking Microsoft as the number one business role model, followed by General Electric and Ford. Was it merely a coincidence that Microsoft Korea's president resigned at the same time the government announced its interest in Linux? No one is saying. Regardless of the government's motivation for supporting Linux, the support is there. Linux and Free Software in Korea is on the move. ----------------------------------- Free Software in Korea: Part Two -- The Linux Side (Conclusion) Oct 10, 1999, 07:15 UTC By Randy Leganza, Special Korea Correspondent for Linux Today Korean Government Support for Linux A most promising development for the free software movement in Korea is the government's Ministry of Information and Communication announcement in late July that it will "provide government support for the development and proliferation of Linux." The Korea Herald, among others, reported that the ministry "will establish a Linux consultative body composed of software experts from the government, academic and industry sectors to standardize Korean versions of Linux and develop a variety of programs based on the operating system." At the forefront of the Korean government's support for Linux is the Electronics and Telecommunications Research Institute (ETRI). According to Kim Hae-jin (family names are first in Korean), who is heading the ETRI Linux project, ETRI's plan is to "provide a highly scalable, highly available, single system server image cluster [technology]... adaptable from Internet [servers] to [the] mission critical enterprise." A non-profit organization called the "Linux Council" has been established. Four committees within the Council have been designated: 1. Standardization -- standardize Linux's Hangul terminology and documentation. 2. R & D -- promote research in and development of Linux software. 3. Supply and Support -- support Linux in end-user markets, schools and government offices. 4. Education and Training -- promote Linux education and training. Kim adds that they will also sponsor more Linux forums like a recent one held in July 1999, which was attended by Linux International's John "maddog" Hall. A Long History of Free Software Use Korea has been involved with the free software movement for over twelve years. An obscure reference on the GNU web site reveals that in April of 1987, Richard Stallman visited the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST) in Taejon. More recently, in May of this year, Tim Ney of the Free Software Foundation visited Korea with a Massachusetts Software Delegation and "met with a number of young software start-up companies..." According to Tim, "many of the companies [he] saw were predominantly writing software for the Windows platform, yet responded quite positively when [he] spoke about free software and opportunities with GNU/Linux." Free Software Projects Ongoing free software projects in Korea include: * Hanterm 3.1 from the KAIST, a Korean language (Hangul) xterm * OpenHWP, reported to be an almost defunct Korean free word-processor * And a team of at least four package maintainers contribute to the Korean Debian Project. The Korean Debian project has members from both the academic and business communities. Park Chu-yeon, current leader of the project, is working on the Korean Debian Bible with other project members. They maintain nearly 50 Korean Debian packages. Linux is not the only project associated with the free software movement in Korea. FreeBSD also has a following. Choi Jun-ho is the leader of both the Korea FreeBSD Users Group and the GNU Free Translation Project. Choi reports that he first used GNU/Linux in 1993, then moved to FreeBSD in 1995. Korean Companies That Market Linux Products WebDataBank Choi is developing a unique Linux distribution, qLinux, at his company, WebDataBank. According to Choi Jun-ho, qLinux will be bootable from a large ext2 file image on an existing Windows FAT partition via a loop-back device. He says qLinux will also be able to "utilize" the Windows Registry to configure X Windows, network cards, etc. WebDataBank is in the Linux Internet server hosting and groupware development business. They will soon release a Korean version of TurboLinux 4.0. MIZI Research Another Korean company, MIZI Research markets MiziOS, its own Linux version and HWPX-R4, a Linux/Unix Hangul word processor that is a close cousin to Hangul and Computers (H & C) Hangul Windows version (Hangul means the "Korean written language"). MIZI's head, Seo Young-jin, was the UNIX HWPX-R4 team leader at H & C before H & C decided to drop the UNIX version in 1997 and focus on their Windows version. Seo then licensed HWPX-R4's source code and started MIZI. Microsoft's subsequent failed attempt to shut the H & C Hangul word processor out of the Korean market was a pivotal event in the rise of free software in Korea. See Free Software in Korea: Part One -- The Microsoft Connection. HWPX-R4 is included on the MiziOS CDs, as either a demo version or an official bundle. MIZI also supports the Free Software movement with: * ManIM, which enables Hangul fonts in Netscape on X * a Hangul font server * some document viewers that will soon fall under the GPL * four Korean TrueType fonts under the BSD license MIZI's decision whether to publish under the GPL or a commercial license is level-of-effort based. According to Seo Young-jin, "Some software is attractive and fun and others [requires] endless maintenance. The latter [we license] commercial." Under commercial licensing, MIZI is currently working on an architectural CAD application that will be available in Hangul and English. Seo said that he hoped to "shareware" the English version, explaining that part of the code was licensed from another company and MIZI needed to recover the cost. Zion Systems Zion Systems develops Accel, a Korean distribution based on Red Hat. In developing Accel, Zion Systems uses the latest kernel version and libraries, builds their packages optimized for Pentiums and is working on a Korean GUI installation package. In partnership with Samsung, Zion Systems markets a line of high availability Alpha and Xeon SMP servers that can support clustering and further plans to market a sub $1,000 Linux PC in October. Currently Zion is working on GPLing their audio drivers and high availability management software. Zion is also setting up an "after service" center for its product line. 3R Soft 3R Soft produces MailStudio, a Linux/Unix Web-based e-mail server. MailStudio's user interface runs inside the Web browser, like Netscape and Yahoo's mail servers. MailStudio is compatible with Sendmail, SMTP, POP, and qPopper. In their upcoming 3.0 version, 3R Soft plans to offer IMAP, LDAP, and spell checking support. While 3R Soft does not produce any GPL software, they are compatible with Red Hat, Caldera, TurboLinux and Apache. Other Korean Linux Companies At least three other Korean companies produce seperate Korean versions of Linux: * Linux Korea markets the Power Linux distribution and the Netspirit 2000 and 3000 Linux-based servers. * Korea Linux sells the Alzaa Korean version of Red Hat. * ClassData offers the Class 6.0 Enterprise Linux distribution, which has an interesting glass bottle logo and the catchy slogan, "stop paying your Bills." In addition, Informix Korea has a series of Korean pages devoted to Linux, including links to downloads. Linux Use Growing Rapidly According to Denis Havlik: "I have been witnessing an enormous growth of "registered Linux users" in Korea for quite some time. (Take a look at "the Linux Counter", under "Denis Havlik's report"...) The growth is not so dramatic any more, but still rather fast: 156% annually." "Registered users" probably account for less than 1% of the Linux user base(*) -- currently there are more than 3,000 registered users. Therefore, my estimate is "more than 300,000 Linux users in South Korea" today. Greater than 500,000 would not surprise me, either." The Fight for the Linux Trademark Sadly, all the positive news about Linux in Korea is not without its controversy. The last week of August, a fight broke out over the Linux trademark, when a lawyer for Kwon Yong-tae, who holds a Korean trademark for 'Linux', demanded that the Kyobo Books bookstore stop selling books with Linux in the title. Three days later, the incident became a hot topic on Korea's popular Linux bulletin board and it made the English Linux news sites the following weekend. Allegedly, the trademark was applied for in 1995 and granted in 1997. Korean publishers, business and other interested parties are still working to resolve the issue. For those interested, Lee Kyong-ho is maintaining an event time line at the bottom of his Web page on the problem, with a link to an English version of a petition. --------- Randy lives in Taegu, Korea and is on his third, most fun and least stressful career. He's the QA/Test guy on a small team supporting a large Solaris WAN integration project, with a few Linux boxes scattered about. He gets to play with computers all day and intentionally break them -- then complain about it, and usually see things get fixed. When he can, he likes to fly airplanes, lift weights, hunt and fish. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:50:38 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 15:20:38 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> Raju Mathur wrote: > > We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom proponents > in India are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans I suggest avoiding the term Open Source, and use only the other two. Because, you see, it sends out wrong impressions outside. If a press release based on this letter comes out, FSF-India will be termed as a group Open Source proponents. Of course, the rest of the document is brilliantly drafted. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 08:05:47 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:35:47 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt (FaX Numbers of WB officials)Urgent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3081.192.168.0.4.997085147.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 at 10:15, Satish Babu wrote: > > > In the first place, I should thank Raju for coming out with a > powerful letter. > > I believe that there should be a local group who can take up > this issue and lobby the government. Are we aware of any > individual or groups in WB who can highlight the dangers of > this tie-up? Can we operate through local NGOs? After working > in NGOs for long, I think NGOs can be powerful allies in this > struggle. > > This seems to be a viable method in the local level to put pressure on the > WB government. > > I also think that FSF-India should be prepared, with > appropriate tools (at the very least, a dossier of documents > that explain our position, and quoting examples of governments > of other provinces and countries) to respond to such > situations at short notice. > > Exactly. > > Raju's letter is powerfully drafted. I wonder if such a letter > should be sent by snail-mail or e-mail? Would clogging up the > CM's mailbox brand us as cyber terrorists? > > Why not we have a web page for all those interested to sign? We > shall keep the page for a period of one week or ten days and > propagate the news to all the mailing lists inviting people to sign the > document. > > After the specified period, we can submit a mass memorandum to the WB > government. In the meantime, FSF Board can work out the dossier of > documents. Well we can Fax the letter signed by FSF india board Members to the higher officials immedialtely. Buddhadev Bhattacharya (Chief Minister): 0332215480 Mr Sitaram Yechuri in Delhi : 0113747483 conatacts on Linux-india site as coordinators Indranil Das Gupta :indradg@cal.vsnl.net.in Darshan Shah :darshan_shah@vsnl.com cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:32:50 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:02:50 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] Linux in Education Message-ID: Troubleshooters.Com Presents Troubleshooting Professional Magazine Volume 3, Issue 4, April 1999 The Education Revolution Copyright (C) 1999 by Steve Litt. _________________________________________________________________ Editors Desk What a difference a decade makes. In April 1989 the 386 chip was three years old, and was just getting to a price point affordable for individual computer users. 286 technology had been around for seven years, and you could still buy a new 286 computer. And if you used a PC compatible, you had DOS. Sure, it was version 5, but it was almost identical to the DOS 3.1 you'd used in 1984. PC Programmers used teen-age C or the baby on the block, five year old Dbase III. You could take a year or two to learn a computer language, and spend a year or two writing the program. You had to be a genius to access the internet, and even then you still had to be at a major university or the military. And unless you were trying to reproduce Robert Morris' Internet Worm virus that had appeared the year before, why would you even want to get on the internet? And so we continued on our leisurely path, oblivious to the wildly accelerating technological changes the 90's would bring. Now technologies come and go in two years. Time to market has shrunk to months or weeks. The successful companies and technologists have shrunk their learning times to days or weeks. College and trade school don't cut it. Even those week long training courses can't do the job. New learning methods are needed. Luckily, free software, the Internet, and the documentation of the Rapid Learning process allow us to keep up. This issue of Troubleshooting Professional Magazine is devoted to the Education Revolution. We've even given the articles political names. After all, learning is the most vital component of our careers, and ultimately our corporations and our nations. So kick back and relax as you read this issue. And remember, if you're a Troubleshooter, this is your magazine. Enjoy! Rapid Learning: A Key to Universal Education If you hang out with leading edge technologists long enough, you see they all use similar learning techniques. They use the 'net, trade mags and their acquaintences to learn the terminology and its definitions. Armed with that, they achieve a theoretical understanding. They then do incremental/differential learning, often using free software (free as in speech) to verify their understanding and learn more. All of this is done within the context of their work, not separate from it. They've mastered the technology long before their co-workers have gotten clearance to take the course. They make the big bucks. I'm trying very hard to document this process, which I've dubbed Rapid Learning. I'm ten percent done with my new book, "Rapid Learning: Secret Weapon of the Successful Technologist". It looks like it will weigh in at 42 chapters and a little over 200 pages. I hope to have it available for sale in about a month, assuming more pressing projects don't interfere. Using Rapid Learning, a technologist can learn new technologies quicker, cheaper, and easier than their counterparts taking training, trade school, or college. Rapid Learning has been used for decades, but the advent of the Internet as a research tool and free software for setting up a kitchen table lab have supercharged Rapid Learning's advantages. The de-facto class restrictions on technical education are crumbling. Steve Litt is the author of the upcoming book "Rapid Learning: Secret Weapon of the Successful Technologist". Power to the People Some cynical days I wonder if this whole thing is just class warfare. "Buffy, we simply cannot allow these lower classes to program. They work so cheap the profession will be ruined". "Precisely, Skip. We must make sure the lower classes have no contact with programming. Expensive compilers, expensive computers, and just in case some rif-raf gets his hands on one, we'll require a $100,000.00 college education, and make sure a computer training lab costs six figures. Remember your first computer lab? The minicomputer cost nearly a hundred thousand, with each terminal $500. Or, if it was later, maybe an $8000.00 PC server with a $4000.00 NOS (Netware) and each workstation costing $2000.00. But that wasn't the big thing. The big thing was the software. Compilers were probably $100.00 to $500.00 per seat. And the big-iron compilers like Cobol -- if you have to ask you can't afford it. And remember the cost of the DBMS? That was sure to keep the small entrapeneur out of the game. Any way you looked at it, setting up a computer lab would set you back over $60,000.00 -- probably much more. If there are such a Buffy and Skip, they're certainly tearing their hair out today. Anyone with a spare two hundred square feet can set up a respectable computer lab for less than a good used car -- maybe a lot less. Let's start with buying everything new: Item Nos. Unit Price Total Cost Server OS 1 $49.00 $50.00 Desktop OS 1 $49.00 $50.00 Server 1 $2000.00 $2000.00 Client PCs 15 $600.00 $9000.00 8 port Hubs 2 $200.00 $400.00 Network Cabling n/a home made $100.00 Server Software: DNS, Sendmail, Proxy Server, FTP Server, Web Server, Print Server, .... 0.0 0.0 Educational Software: (GNU) C compiler 15 0.0 0.0 (GNU) C++ compiler 15 0.0 0.0 Perl Interpreter 15 0.0 0.0 Python Interpreter 15 0.0 0.0 Tcl/TK Interpreter 15 0.0 0.0 Java 15 0.0 0.0 (PostgreSQL) DBMS 15 0.0 0.0 (DBI) Middleware 15 0.0 0.0 (PHP) Web App RAD 15 0.0 0.0 Web Authoring Tool 15 0.0 0.0 (GIMP) Graphics SW 15 0.0 0.0 Web Browser 15 0.0 0.0 Text Editors 15 0.0 0.0 (Pine) Email Read 15 0.0 0.0 So that's it. For $11,600.00 anybody can set up a 15 workstation computer lab. But wait. There's more. If 15 people decide to set up the lab for themselves, and each brings an old, Linux GUI capable computer (low grade Pentium with 32Meg of ram, 1 gig disk), and one person contributes a server (low grade Pentium, 32 meg of ram, 6.4 Gig drive), the cost goes down to $600.00. That's not each, mind you. That's divided among the fifteen. That's right, $40.00 each. What do they get for the money? Here are the classes that can be offered: Programming 101: Algorithms (Python) Programming 102: OOP (Python) Intro to C Intermediate C Advanced C OS Programming in C Driver Writing in C Linux Internals in C TCP/IP Programming in C Basic Network Configuration Intermediate Network Configuration Network Design and Architecture Network Troubleshooting DNS Configuration Web Host Configuration Email Server Configuration Advanced Webmastering Intro to C++ Intermediate C++ Advanced C++ Web Design (Netscape Composer, GIMP) Advanced Web Graphics (GIMP) Intro to Web Programming (Perl) Web Forms Programming (Perl) Database Web Programming (Perl, PHP, PostgreSQL) Programming for Electronic Commerce (Perl, PHP, PostgreSQL) So just in case it isn't clear, fifteen people without money for college can get together, pony up a PC each and less than $50.00 each, $2.00 each per month for an internet connection (which they can share simultaneously real-time via Linux IP-masquerading). For that tiny investment they'll gain theoretical and hands-on mastery of C, C++, Web authoring, Web applications, Web database applications, Electronic Commerce, network administration, network troubleshooting, network architecture, webmastering. Who will teach the classes? Using Rapid Learning techniques, they can teach themselves. Then pass on the information in the form of Rapid Teaching tutorials. Those original 15 can charge ten percent of university prices, and recoup their investment in a year. They can expand and teach thousands of folks unable to afford a college education. Buffy and Skip, like it or not you have some serious competition. Viva La Revolucion Nowhere is the education revolution stronger than in Mexico. Their Scholar Net program is installing a nationwide network of computer labs using free software including Linux and Gnome. Over the next few years, they will be installing 140,000 computer labs (not computers -- labs) at a rate of 20-35,000 per year. These students will have all the advantages enumerated in the previous article. If this sounds unbelievable, I've reprinted the words of the Scholar Net project head, Arturo Espinosa Aldama. >From the Horse's Mouth ============================ >From arturo@estadistica.unam.mx Thu Oct 29 21:46:11 1998 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:54:25 -0600 (CST) From: Arturo Espinosa Aldama To: gnome-list@gnome.org, gnome-hackers@gnome.org Subject: Mexico's Educative System Goes for GNU/Linux + GNOME Greetings, beloved GNOME users and developers. I work as the project leader of the "Scholar Net", a program that aims to bring computers and the net to every elementary and mid-level school in Mexico. We expect to install from 20 to 35 thousand labs per year to a total of 140,000 centers in the next five years. Due to matters of cost, reliability and configurability, we plan to use GNU/Linux to replace the proprietary server options and, now thanks to GNOME, the proprietary desktop application options. We will develop GNOME to a point where we can get a useful and friendly enough desktop for the elementary and high school student. There are some aspects of GNOME, such as uniformity, Spanish translation, bug fixing and application development which we will address to achieve this. At an average of 20 users per machine, and being all of them school children and teachers, GNU/Linux will become, at the long term, a major influence in Mexico. In the short term, GNOME will get an additional impulse from us and those who will contribute following our guidelines, and GNU/Linux will prove to be a real-world option for the end user. For further information and details on the Scholar Net and, specially for GNOME developers, on how to contribute to GNOME for us to arrive to deployment stage, please contact Arturo Espinosa . Arturo Espinosa Aldama Project Leader Academic Services Coordination National Autonomous University of Mexico The text above may be copied in any way provided that it stays with this paragraph and unmodified. ============================= Note: The original source URL of this document is contained in the URL's section of this magazine. My Fellow Americans My fellow Americans, we're in another race every bit as vital as the space race of the 1960's. Once again it's time to get moving. The race is no longer to the moon, but instead to technological dominance. Our competitor is no longer the Soviet Union, but instead every nation on earth. The threat is no longer nuclear obliteration, but technological and economic obliteration. Our neighbors to the south are attacking this challenge head on. Mexico is installing 140,000 computer labs using the best (but not the most expensive) technology available. Soon they will field a fleet of millions of superiorly trained technologists. Mexico has taken a page from America's pioneering spirit. Free thinking, they went with the right choice, not the politically expediant one. They worked to get results. They stood up for their children. Contrast this with America's response. We hesitate over lab installation because it's too "expensive". Expensive because we pay per-seat licenses. Expensive because Windows desktops requires more expensive hardware. Expensive because NT Server is *fabulously* expensive. Expensive because Windows requires constant attention to keep running. Our children languish while Microsoft stockholders get rich. My fellow Americans, the choice is ours. We can change course to the better plan instituted by Mexico, continuing our leadership position well into the next century. Or we can remain in our present comfort zone, making Microsoft stockholders rich while our children receive inferior educations and our nation's technological leadership fades. I ask you to follow Mexico's lead. Stand up for our children. Stand up for our nation. Use free software in our schools. Fellow Americans, my critics will tell you there will always be work for Americans who want to work. They are absolutely correct. The question before us today is whether that work will be charting the worlds technological course, rather than serving at resorts, hotels, gas stations and restaraunts, hoping we'll be tipped in Pesos. Richard Stallman, Architect of the Revolution In 1984 Richard Stallman wrote the GNU Manifesto, which advocated free software, specifically a free UNIX workalike. In the Manifesto, Stallman prophetically described the process of getting this to happen, including ideas in licensing (must pass on source and all rights to the receiver, etc). In 1991 he copyrighted the GNU General Public License (otherwise known as GPL). That license provided a framework allowing a developer to guarantee that his work would never be co-opted or subverted by an unscrupulous corporation. Software authors began to license their software using GPL. It worked. Linus Torvalds and his crew wrote the Linux kernal, combined it with many of the already developed GNU utilities, to come up with the GNU/Linux operating system, which was absolutely free to anyone. Other software followed. Others started licensing software under non-GPL licenses that nevertheless guaranteed source availability, ability to modify, and passing on of rights. Others had licenses that didn't do all that, but managed to make the product free and standard. And now you can get, absolutely free of charge, the GNU/Linux OS, Netscape browser and authoring tool, GIMP graphic software, Apache web server, sendmail email server, GNU C and C++ compilers, Python, Perl and Tcl interpreters, Java, and several editors. Or, if you don't want to download them, you can purchase them for as little as $1.99 plus shipping. Much of the Internet runs off these free tools, especially Apache. And the web can replace any 30 technical textbooks, and it's always up to date. This has cut the cost of setting up a computer lab or computer school by a factor of 10 or more. Once only the upper middle and upper classes could get an excellent computer education. Now almost anyone can do it. Richard Stallman: hero or rabble rouser? I guess the answer depends on whether you're a normal working person, or the president of an expensive and elite university. Linux Log: The Redmond Tea Party (Linux Log is now a regular column in Troubleshooting Professional Magazine. Each month we'll explore a facet of Linux as it relates to that month's theme). Few grudge anyone the right to make an honest living. I haven't heard one person question the cost of (Borland) Turbo Pascal or Turbo C. Few objected to the price of the DOS or Windows operating systems. There were some problems with Mac pricing, but those wanting a cheaper product simply bought one. Trouble is, sooner or later certain commercial outfits get greedy. I don't know whether they forgot history and then repeated it, or whether they felt the lessons learned didn't apply. But these commercial outfits (and it wasn't just Microsoft) gouged us blind. The insane prices and even crazier licensing provisions erected an entry barrier few could penetrate. So we went elsewhere. To Linux, to free software in general. And we found it to be better. So we snuck in the corporate back door with superior free software systems, and got free software on the corporate agenda. It's humorous that now the commercial biggies find themselves subject the the same type of FUD they used to dish out. "I'm not buying the Microsoft product -- a superior free software product is expected any time now". The Mexican government is building a nationwide computer lab network using Linux and Gnome. It hasn't happened yet in the US, but it will. Throngs march on Redmond to dump not tea but Windows, not into Boston Harbor but into the Microsoft campus. I predict that Windows 2000 will fail miserably, as the masses shift to the technically superior, and probably by that time more user friendly, Linux. The other gouge and grab software outfits will get theirs soon after. Let's hope Caldera, Slackware, SuSe, Pacific HiTech (TurboLinux), Red Hat, Star, Corel and Applix learn from their predecessors' mistakes. URLs Mentioned in this Issue * http://www.troubleshooters.com: Steve Litt's website, Troubleshooters.Com. * http://www.troubleshooters.com/umenu: The website for the Universal Menu System Open Source Project * http://www.troubleshooters.com/umenu/download/index.htm: The download site for the (free, Open Source) Universal Menu System (this version works only on Linux, but upcoming versions will work with Windows and with UNIX). * http://luthien.nuclecu.unam.mx/~arturo/scholar/: Mexico's Scholar Net program, an installation of 140,000 computer labs throughout Mexico. * http://www.gnu.org/people/rms.html: Richard Stallman's home page. * http://www.calderasystems.com: Caldera's OpenLinux home page. * http://www.suse.com: SuSe Linux distro home page. * http://www.Slackware.com: Official home of the Slackware Linux project. * http://www.turbolinux.com: Website of Pacific HiTech, makers of the TurboLinux distro. * http://www.redhat.com: Home of Red Hat Software, makers of the Red Hat Linux distro. * http://linux.corel.com/: Corel's Linux product website. * http://www.applix.com/appware/linux/index.htm: Applixware for Linux. * http://www.microsoft.com: The guys who make Windows NT, a very nice server OS that would be as good as Linux if it was faster and more reliable. ========================================================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:37:07 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:07:07 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] Open Source in China Message-ID: A new IT website, www.oso.com.cn, was launched to proliferate the adoption of Open-Source in China Oct 19th, 2000 08:24 UTC OSO offers industry outlooks, lectures, source codes, program downloads and forums to members at all levels of computer literacy. Many forums and language-specific, especially PHP, websites regarding Open-Source pop up during the past year in China. A new and comprehensive website that focuses on Open-Source, Open Source Online (www.oso.com.cn), was launched recently in China to initiate, cultivate and provide a marketplace for Open-Source. Open Source Online (OSO), http://www.oso.com.cn, was launched to serve and promote Open-Source IT in China. OSO offers industry outlooks, lectures, source codes, program downloads and forums to members at all levels of computer literacy. In November, OSO will provide a free on-line computing environment and disk space for its member to learn all about Internet computing using Open-Source tools and own a subdomain name for real-time usage. OSO will eventually provide a commercial platform in China that leverages on the merits of Open-Source. For details, please visit: http://www.oso.com.cn From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 07:18:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Prakash Advani) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:48:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [LIG] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <01080612485801.00795@krishna> Dear Raju, This is execellent if everyone can send out this document to their respective state goverments. I hope modifications to the documents are allowed and encouraged GPL ? ;-) I would also recommend you add something about localisation issues. In case of Proprietory operating systems localisation is decided by the company only if they see $$$$ coming in not in the interest of the people. Where as in case of GNU/Linux anyone can add the Indian Language layer depending on the needs. In fact all the localisation efforts so far have been started with Goverments funds (CDAC/NCST). By putting their efforts GNU/Linux they funds would be better utilised. Regards Prakash On Sunday 05 August 2001 12:23, Raju Mathur wrote: > Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State government > which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I am making it as > general-purpose as possible so that more people are willing to sign > it: this is not a time for family squabbles. I'd appreciate any > additions/enhancements which can be made to this letter. URL's > highlighting the points discussed would also be a great idea. Not > being an activist, I cannot suggest the proper methods for getting > this letter signed and circulated to the right authorities. > From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:34:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:04:52 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] French Senators Ask Government to Support Open Source Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- French senators propose making open source compulsory Posted 24/10/99 2:47pm by John Lettice French senators Pierre Laffitte and Rene Tragout are proposing that national and local government and administrative systems should only use open source software. Arguing in favour of their proposed law number 495, they say ease of communication and free access by citizens to information can only be achieved if the administration is not dependent on the goodwill of the publishers of the software. "Open systems whose evolution can be guaranteed via the free availability of source code are needed," they say. The two senators have set up a discussion forum for the proposed law at the French Senate Web site, and put forward the text, and their own explanation of why the move is needed. They see the Internet as becoming the primary way for government and citizens to communicate, and propose a period of transition prior to a switchover to wholly electronic communications. According to Article 3 of law 495, "State administration, local government and administrative services... can only use software free of [IP] rights and whose source code is available. A decree will fix the terms of transition from the current situation." In addition, the senators see the switch to open source by the state as providing the engine to drive a far broader movement. Private companies dealing with the state, in bidding for contracts, for example, will tend to switch to open source to make it easier to do so electronically, while those who supply the state with computer systems will have to redouble their open source efforts. Impressively, neither Windows nor Linux is mentioned in their proposed law and its supporting documentation, but it's pretty clear what the effect will be if it passes. Time for another Bill Gates visit to Lionel Jospin and Jacques Chirac, we fear. We're not sure what law 495's chances are, but perhaps a French reader can help us out with some further information. And while they're about it, could they explain to us why it's only number 495? Whenever we've been in France we've got the impression that there are a hell of a lot more than just 494 laws. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:36:24 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:06:24 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] German Govt. Says Use Open Source Software Message-ID: After the UK, French, Korean, and Chinese governments, it is now the turn of the German government which has recommended the use of Open Source Software (OSS) for use in their offices. I hope you find this interesting reading. -- Raj ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ German Governmental Agency Says: Use Open Source An official team of the German Ministry of the Interior has released a statement which examines the possible use of Open Source software in the German administration. The statement concludes: "Linux and FreeBSD and accompanying Free or commercial software provide a stable, cheap, low-on-resources, safe and sufficiently supported environment even for professional offices." =============== Some Readers Comments ================ Of course they should use open source instead of commercial software since it's saving tax payer money and is ultimately more reliable (which means more efficient employees). I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you just forgot to put the smileys at the right places, but this undoubtedly there are some of us here that actually think this statement has any truth in it. The fact that one uses open or closed source software doesn't mean anything in itself when it comes to costs. True, with open source there is generally no fee that needs to be paid, but to see this as a major cost saver is incorrect. The costs in any IT-related project within organisations is generally not associated with software nor hardware, but with the amount of man-hours needed to complete the project. Espescially when specialist knowledge needs to be hired from third parties the costs are rising like the amount of Guinness in an Irishman on Saint Patricks day. After the roll-out of a project the cost is in the ease of use for the user and in the cost of keeping everything up and running. At the moment the cost of running open source based software on server(-like) configurations is probably tied with that of various closed source alternatives. It all depends on what you want, who you have working for you and what kind of other systems you use. The cost of open source on user-systems is probably still higher then that of various closed source alternatives. Most notably MS-Windows based products, but for some uses the Mac comes to mind. Even if one accounts for BSOD's and related stress issues, loss of working hours etc. A properly configured system is still a cheaper option then Open Source because the money for an organisation is in the applications and in the added value that a worker gets from those apps. Yup, it all boils down to apps again. Though i must say that in certain areas this gap could be bridged quite easily. Especially there where users are doing data entry, where all data goes to a large database (eg: call-centers), most screens are designed espescially for that database. With that in mind, new systems in this area could be as easily build to work with an open as a closed source environment. ---- It means that the German Federal offices can use Open Source products. So, if you work for the German Federal government, you can go ahead and use Open Source software now. ---- The German Goverment "Gets It" -- the use of open source helps in keeping certain cost down. Allows you to add extentions to the software you use. Also allows you to audit the software you are using at the source so there are no question about certain things. ---- Governments are composed of many, many, individuals; they perform many, many jobs. Some people in the German government have the job of recommending the ways in which technology, specifically computers, should be used within federal offices. These ones are recommending Open Source. You should have realised they're saying a lot more than: 'Use Linux/BSD 'cuz they're cheap!' As a matter of fact, they present a very detailed accounting of the advantages of OSS, including the key arguments of better security (through transparency) and freedom from control by any one corporation (never named, but in my opinion implied), as well as a detailed plan of how Linux and friends could be installed at all levels of the government. I don't know if this document carries any weight with the decision-makers, but it is a ringing endorsement of free software of all stripes. ---- Strange. I'm a German and I'm fascinated by the progress our government has made since it was elected in 1998. But now, I'll leave this great country because of monetary reasons (hi USA!). I'll certainly miss the open and liberal minds of our politicians. The old government was crying for more control of the Internet while the new one gives money to Open Source cryptology projects and even recommends the use of encrypted communication channels. ---- When I was a govt contractor, we were using the GNU tools and perl on several Department of Defense projects because the were the most portable around. Of course these were Unix based projects. Is anyone out there actively lobbying the government to officially endorse OSS solutions rather than proprietary software? It seems to me as a taxpayer that I would like to see the vast number of government projects out there actively evaluate Linux as well as Solaris and NT as platforms. Not only would they be getting a high quality, low cost platform, the code that the government contractors develop could be fed back into the community. The govt develops a considerable amount of software and while much of it is specific to its needs, there are other areas such as infrastructure where having an OSS solution makes sense. If they used OSS software as the basis of building their systems, it would prevent a lot of the reinventing of the wheel and proprietary lock-in that occurs now. ---- Alot of us are trying, believe me. Most of us have OSS snuck in the background but contributing none the less... The more "public" uses are seen at NASA with their Beowulf cluster and at NIST. There's a FOSE conference coming up next month and one of the seminar tracks includes a session on Linux. However I wish that more on OSS was scheduled to be discussed at this. The timing of FOSE is really good considering all that's going on right now, but seems no one in the D.C./MD/VA area appeared to push it for this year's conference... ---- Using open-source products is good government. In fact, I think it helps to mollify one of the real problems of most modern states. usually, when the government spends money on a project, only one group in the population benefits. Although this is often a large group, there are almost always some people who are left out. But with OSS, when the government works on a special program designed for one group, the whole community benefits, because the whole community gets free source. And more, since in the course of the project it's highly likely that the government-employed programmers will contribute patches, code, ideas, etc. to other projects. So, not only is OSS good for government, it also constitutes good government. =================================================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 11:36:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:06:30 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> Message-ID: <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org> Good idea. In fact, let's all create one version each of the letter (GPL enthusiasts, BSD License enthusiasts, Open Source enthusiasts, Electronic Freedom enthusiasts, etc); that way we'll be able to achieve much more. Even if we don't, it doesn't matter since, after all, what you /might/ get called by a misinformed press is more important than what you do, isn't it? Ever hear the term ``knee-jerk reaction''? *Disgusted* -- Raju >>>>> "RK" == Ramakrishnan M writes: RK> Raju Mathur wrote: >> We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom >> proponents in India are deeply distressed to learn about your >> Government's plans RK> I suggest avoiding the term Open Source, and use only the RK> other two. Because, you see, it sends out wrong impressions RK> outside. If a press release based on this letter comes out, RK> FSF-India will be termed as a group Open Source proponents. RK> Of course, the rest of the document is brilliantly drafted. RK> -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 RK> Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: RK> http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ RK> _______________________________________________ RK> http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 11:37:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:07:00 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] Argentina Govt. Discussing Free Software Law Message-ID: Free Software Law for Argentina There's presently (last week of April, 2001) a law being discussed at the Congress in Argentina, that would make mandatory the use of and migration to Free Software when possible within the government units. That law was originally proposed by a Congressmen, but he contacted people from the Free Software Community in Argentina (non-profit organizations, LUGs, etc.), and we have already suggested many changes that are making into the law. This is a translation of the law being discussed. It's already in discussion at the Argentina's congress, and moving on Note: all uses of the "free" word are for Spanish "libre", i.e, free as in free speech, not free beer. Policy for Free Software use for the Federal State Article 1: The National Public Administration, Decentralized Organizations and corporations where the State is a majoritary shareholder will only use free programs (software) for their IT systems and equipments. Article 2: "free program (software)", will be understood as software with a license of use that guarantees the user, without an extra fee, the following rights: 1. Non-restricted use of the program for any purpose 2. Exhaustive inspection of the internal program operation. 3. Use of the internal working, and of arbitrary segments of the program, to adaptate them to user needs 4. Production and distribution of copies of the program 5. Modification of the program, and free distribution of the modifications and the resulting new program, under these same conditions. Article 3: The source program of any free program must be the primary resource used by the programmer for modifying and inspecting it. Therefore, no program categorized as free can contain any restriction difficulting its access, or intermediate stages as output from a non-free pre-processor or compiler. Article 4: Licenses for free programs used by the National Public Administration, Decentralized Organizations, and corporations where the State is a majoritary shareholder, will have, in all cases, to allow explicitly modification and derived works, as well as non-restricted distribution of these works with the same license as the original program. Article 5: The Executive Power will set in a term of 180 days, the conditions, timelines, and ways to implement the transition from present systems to free programs as defined in Articles 1 to 4; and will move future licitations and contracting of computer programs (software) in that direction. Artice 6: From the date established by the Executive Power on, Public National Organizations mentioned in article 1 of this law, will not be allowed to use programs that store data in non-public format, or with licenses which: 1. Imply any form of discrimination to people or groups. 2. Don't fulfill of the preceding Article 2. 3. Are specific or exclusive for only one product. Article 7: Once finished the transition term, with a duration regulated by the National Executive Power as expressed in Article 5, there will be exclusively contracting and use of free computer programs. Article 8: The Public State Universities, the Provincial and the City Governments, and the Autonomous Government of the city of Buenos Aires are invited to adhere to this initiative. Article 9: Communicate this to the National Executive Power. ====================== Some Comments ======================= The financial savings are not the biggest benefit. I realize that there will be a huge price to pay in training and development, that could be similar to the cost of propietary licenses. But there are strong arguments for government use fo free software, like "National Security" (because the ability to guarantee no backdoors), "Technological independence" (remember that this is a 3rd world country, and propietary software involves depending on a foreign corporation), and "Control of information" (Citizens may be harmed when their public records are stored ("kidnapped") into propietary file formats). ---- This law is very well written - with good intent behind it. This law basically states that if the government or government owned institutions are to use software, it must be examinable by the people of that country. What a wonderful idea - one that most Americans are familiar with. We are allowed to observe almost all areas of government, comment upon it, and change it as needed. I'm glad that at least some governments realize that this should apply to software as well. ---- Laws that require the use of Free Software are about as inspiring as laws that require the use of Windows 2000. IMHO, this doesn't seem to be an appropriate use of government. Choose the best software for the task, and may the best software win in the marketplace. ---- This law as written is beautiful. It's a simple, to the point, expression of the will of the legislature that the government convert to open software wherever possible, as rapidly as is convenient. In my opinion, any changes are more likely to break it than improve it. I'd be inclined to leave it just as it is for now. A rule of thumb for any system design - government law or software - is to see what would happen if a deliberate attempt to misconstrue or circumvent its intent were made by the operator or outside parties. (The only operational difference between malice and mistake is that malice usually exercises the bugs and crashes the system a little sooner - so you look for system flaws as if you were looking for a way someone could deliberately break things, without implying that malice is actually present even if the system does crash later.) The only potential hole I see is that the timetable is left open. So if both a division head and the chief executive were opposed, or if the chief executive didn't push subordinates who dragged their feet, the timetable could slip out indefinitely. But it's appropriate to leave the timetable to the executive, rather than to try to micro-manage from the legislature. Execution is the executive's job. And I'd bet the chief executive is also in favor of this, or at least willing to go along with the will of the legislature. So I'd leave it as it is for now and revisit it in a few years to see how the conversion is coming. If you're really concerned that something might fall through the cracks you might have the executive branch report every few years on the progress of the conversion, including a list of what hasn't been converted and why. After five or ten years if there's anything unconverted that the legislature hasn't been convinced SHOULDN'T be converted, then it might want to make changes to the law to give them a push. And I'd leave military systems up to the executive branch. Which I expect will insist on having source code for everything they commission, and on reverse-engineering any turnkey weapons systems they got from their allies. ---- In order to maintain an open and free government, the people must be able to understand all governmental processes (including limitations with their computers). It is not safe for any government to run software which it does not know how it operates... being able to review the source code and compile it yourself ensures security. Also, since the government pays for all software with tax money, why shouldn't the people have access to that software? If I pay for the government to use software on its computers... I want access to that software I paid for. Society has it embedded into its mind that "Corporations are always good, they always have the best interests of the market in mind" when that is not true. They instead have the best interests of their wallet in mind. Software companies do take bribes to modify software to suit certain people's needs... I would not doubt that the NSA has never paid MS for certain code changes to Windows that make spying easier. ---- As a law that would force only the government to use Free Software, which would give the government and the people full knowledge of the workings of important government software, I think it is very reasonable. ---- Calling this a "law" is technically accurate, but misleading. To the layperson, the word "law" implies a regulation that affects private citizens, which this isn't. Really, it's just an internal government policy decision, stating that the government will use free software whenever possible (assuming it gets passed, of course). It doesn't regulate what individuals and private companies can do. ---- Think about it: most of the countries in the world produce their own weapons: they don't want to depend on others. The same starts to come true about software, as it's importance in running the government/military is understood. ====================================================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 07:19:26 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:49:26 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: References: <01080610152800.11300@athena> Message-ID: <15214.17662.822934.812755@mail.linux-delhi.org> Hi CVR, Once the letter has been re- and re-re-drafted, I'd be glad to put it up on my host (kandalaya.org) for signatories along with fsf.org.in. Please don't take offence, but many people in the Open Source movement are not keen on GNU and Free Software. We need the support of these people too if we want to have one potent movement rather than multiple, small, ineffective ones. Keeping this in mind, it's my opinion that it'd be a good idea to display the letter on a ``license-neutral'' site in addition to the FSF India site. Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "CVR" == Radhakrishnan CV writes: CVR> [snip] CVR> Why not we have a web page for all those interested to sign? CVR> We shall keep the page for a period of one week or ten days CVR> and propagate the news to all the mailing lists inviting CVR> people to sign the document. CVR> After the specified period, we can submit a mass memorandum CVR> to the WB government. In the meantime, FSF Board can work out CVR> the dossier of documents. CVR> Any thoughts? CVR> -- Radhakrishnan -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:28:29 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:58:29 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] US PITAC Recos Message-ID: PITAC: U.S. Government Should Foster Development of Open Source/Free Software By Tony Stanco, Sep 14, 2000, 20 :44 UTC Earlier this week the President's Information Technology Advisory Committee (PITAC) issued its "Recommendations of the Panel on Open Source Software For High End Computing." This is a very important event for Free/Open Source software, because it signals that the U.S. Federal government is finally ready to invest heavily in free software. This, along with the interest shown by the governments of China, Japan, Brazil and France to move away from proprietary software for national security reasons, goes a long way to legitimize free/open software development worldwide (as if that was an issue any more). Still, the thought that the U.S. Federal government is considering pumping potentially billions of dollars into free software has to count for something. The cover letter to the report says that PITAC "believes the open source development model represents a viable strategy for producing high quality software." A promising start. The committee was charged with: * 1. Charting a vision of how the Federal government can support the developing Open Source software activities for high-end computing; * 2. Defining a policy framework for accomplishing these goals; * 3. Identifying policy, legal, and administrative barriers to the widespread adoption of open source software efforts; and * 4. Identifying potential roles for public institutions in Open Source software economic models. The report makes three recommendations: 1. The Federal government should aggressively (!) encourage the development of Open Source software for high end computing; 2. A "level playing field" must be created within the government procurement process to facilitate Open Source development; and 3. An analysis of Open Source licensing agreements is needed, with an ultimate goal of agreeing upon a single common licensing agreement for Open Source software development. So, there are some promising things that may come out of the report. But there are also some troubling things that are apparent if you read carefully between the lines. 1. How does a report to the President on Free/Open software development not even mention Richard Stallman? The man who almost single-handedly brought the world to this point. Without RMS standing up to the ridicule and laughter from all quarters for 16 years as he preached an alternative to proprietary software development, would the world even know now there was an alternative to proprietary? That the Presidential committee doesn't include RMS as a member puts the whole report under a dark cloud, in my opinion. Also, when you look at who is actually on the committee, you quickly see all the usual suspects, so that uneasy feeling doesn't go away, but is actually reinforced. When I spoke to RMS about his noninvolvement, he said he wasn't even aware that the report was in the works. 2. This raises another question: who knew in the community that this committee was working on the report? When working on a report about the Internet-inspired democracy/meritocracy of free software development, does it take that much imagination to use the same Internet-inspired democracy/meritocracy to prepare the report? Where's the community involvement in this report? After the initial euphoria of what this report may have promised, one quickly fears that this group simply misses the whole point of free software, even if they now realize that something important is going on. Obviously, old biases are hard to replace. This report comes from people who have the same, old, corporate, command and control hierarchical mindset. 3. Did anyone notice recommendation No. 3. the ultimate goal of which is "agreeing upon a single common licensing agreement"? While there are some interesting things in this report, there are also some dark clouds on the horizon. It is hard to say at this point whether this is going to be ultimately good or bad for free software. But it does show more community involvement is warranted to address where powerful people are trying to take us. See: http://www.ccic.gov/ac/pitac_ltr_sep11.html (given below) ===================================================================== President's Information Technology Advisory Committee September 11, 2000 Co-Chairs: Raj Reddy Irving Wladawsky-Berger Members: Eric A. Benhamou Vinton Cerf Ching-chih Chen David Cooper Steven D. Dorfman David Dorman Robert Ewald Sherrilynne S. Fuller Hector Garcia-Molina Susan L. Graham James N. Gray W. Daniel Hillis Robert E. Kahn Ken Kennedy John P. Miller David C. Nagel Edward H. Shortliffe Larry Smarr Joe F. Thompson Leslie Vadasz Andrew J. Viterbi Steven J. Wallach The Honorable William J. Clinton President of the United States The White House Washington, DC 20500 Dear Mr. President: The President's Information Technology Advisory Committee (PITAC) is very pleased to submit the second report in the series of follow-ups to our February 1999 report to the President, Information Technology Research: Investing in Our Future. Open Source Software for High End Computing highlights our recommendations for a research strategy that uses open source software development as the new model for answering America's high end computing software needs. In our February 1999 report, we noted with concern a growing national vulnerability based on the inadequacies of the current system to build reliable and secure software while the diversity and sophistication of the software base becomes increasingly pervasive in society. The PITAC believes the open source development model represents a viable strategy for producing high quality software through a mixture of public, private, and academic partnerships. This open source approach permits new software to be openly shared, possibly under certain conditions determined by a licensing agreement, and allows users to modify, study, or augment the software's functionality, and then redistribute the modified software under similar licensing restrictions. By its very nature, this approach offers government the additional promise of leveraging its software research investments with expertise in academia and the private sector. In the attached report, we focus exclusively on software development for high end computing (sometimes referred to as high-performance computing or supercomputing) because of its critical importance to U. S. national security and science and engineering research. Our 1999 analysis revealed that while there were a number of high end applications ripe for exploration, the field was in need of substantial innovations in application-development software, algorithms, programming methods, component technologies, and architecture. The report makes three recommendations. First, the Federal government should aggressively encourage the development of open source software for high end computing. Adopting this recommendation will require a technical assessment of the software needs for high end computing as well as an innovative management plan and funding model for supporting this development. Second, a "level playing field" must be created within the government procurement process to facilitate open source development. Third, an analysis of open source licensing agreements is needed, with an ultimate goal of agreeing upon a single common licensing agreement for open source software applications. Exploring alternative software development models for high end applications will allow the Nation to make significant progress towards addressing the growing national need to ensure software development practices and techniques which will result in reliable and secure systems. We are encouraged to see some high end computing and reliable software development research topics among the priorities in your proposed FY2001 budget for Information Technology Research and Development. However, we urge you to implement the strategy outlined in our report in order to strengthen the effectiveness of federal investments and policies in this arena. Thank you for the continued opportunity to advise you on these and other important issues for America's information technology-driven economy. Sincerely, Raj Reddy, Ph.D. PITAC, Co-Chair Irving Wladawsky-Berger, Ph.D. PITAC, Co-Chair ========================================================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:24:11 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:54:11 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] Why Govt. Should Promote Open Source Software Message-ID: The enclosed feature article is US Government specific. Surely, this can be adpated for India too. I was planning to write something similar, but dropped that when I came across this article. The last section of the article is missing (I could not download it presently). -- Raj ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This document is located at: http://www.netaction.org/opensrc/oss-report.txt Date last modified: 11 Feb 99 <> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Case for Government Promotion of Open Source Software A NetAction White Paper By Mitch Stoltz mitch@netaction.org Abstract An alternative method of software development, called open source software, creates robust, secure software through a process of widespread peer review. This paper explains the open source concept and attempts to show how government can use open source as a vehicle for promoting economic development and as a policy tool which could assist the Justice Department in its antitrust action against Microsoft. Contents: * Introduction * What is Open Source? * History of the Idea * Private and Public Advantages * Recommendations for Government Action * Conclusions * End Notes NetAction Phone: (415) 775-8674 601 Van Ness Ave., #631 Fax: (415) 673-3813 San Francisco, CA 94102 Web: http://www.netaction.org This paper is also available as a regular HTML document, a text file, an RTF file, a postscript file, a PDF file, and a MS Word 5.1 file. About the Author: Mitch Stoltz is currently finishing his senior year as a Computer Science and Public Policy Analysis major at Pomona College, outside of Los Angeles. His interests are computer networking, encryption, consumer privacy issues and equitable access to technology. His next project is a senior thesis on Open Source as a social movement. Copyright 1999 by NetAction/The Tides Center. All rights reserved. Material may be reposted or reproduced for non-commercial use provided NetAction is cited as the source. NetAction is a project of The Tides Center, a 501 (c)(3) non-profit organization. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Case for Government Promotion of Open Source Software Introduction Computers and the Internet have changed the way we work, study, and interact, yet there are many things about computers and software which we find dissatisfying. Proprietary software is increasingly expensive and memory-hungry. Bugs, security flaws, and other errors appear in even the most trusted programs. Microsoft's monopoly control of the operating system market stifles innovation. Many computer systems are not equipped to handle the upcoming turn of the century, creating a multi billion-dollar problem and dire predictions of a global electronics breakdown. An alternative method of software development exists, called open source software, which offers a very low cost solution to all of these problems. Open source is not a technology, but rather a different way of thinking about and organizing the software development process. Whereas traditional proprietary software development (which created most of the programs we use daily) adheres to the principle of strict protection of intellectual property found in the publishing industry, open source software (OSS) development is more of a collaborative process that has evolved along with the Internet. Open source software is growing its market share in a few key areas because of its natural strengths of reliability, security, and low cost. However, open source has advantages on a broader level as well: it eliminates economic waste caused by the duplication of work, and it presents a challenge to harmful monopoly power in the software industry, such as the anticompetitive practices which are under scrutiny now in the Justice Department's antitrust case against Microsoft. It also provides a cost-effective solution to the Year 2000 problem. For these reasons, increased use of open source software serves more than private economic gain -- it serves a public good as well. This paper will describe open source software, including a brief history of the idea, discuss its inherent strengths as both a private and a public good, explain why the government should be involved in promoting open source software development, and offer some recommendations for government action. What is Open Source? The most basic definition of open source software is software for which the source code is distributed along with the executable program, and which includes a license allowing anyone to modify and redistribute the software. Source code is the actual instructions which programmers write to create a piece of software, the "recipe" for the program. Once a program has been "compiled" into a form which can be installed and run on a computer, its source code is irretrievable. It is practically impossible to make changes to a program without having a copy of its source code. If a program's license includes the right to modify the program, this right is meaningless unless the source code is readily available. Actual licenses for OSS vary between different companies and development projects, but they have certain characteristics in common. The Open Source Initiative, a group of developers who disseminate information on the benefits of open source,[1] has posted on its web site a "meta-definition" of basic conditions which they feel should be included in an OSS license.[2] These include: * Allowing free redistribution of the software without royalties or other fees to the author. * Requiring that source code be distributed with the software or otherwise made available for no more than the cost of distribution. * Allowing anyone to modify the software or derive other software from it, and to redistribute the modified software under the same license terms. Any software which is distributed under a license which conforms to these requirements is open source software, according to the Open Source Initiative.[3] Proprietary software, which makes up the majority of the software we use on a daily basis, is distributed under much different conditions. A proprietary license prohibits modification, copying, or redistribution without the company's permission. It ensures that only one entity -- the company or individual that created the software -- has the right to make changes or even see the software's internal structure. In addition to its legal definition, another distinction between OSS and proprietary software is the way in which it is developed. Proprietary software is created by a relatively small group of developers within a particular company, often working under deadline pressure. They complete a program and then try to remove as many flaws (software errors or "bugs," and security "holes") as possible before the software goes to market. Any flaws which remain after shipping time become the consumer¹s problem, leading to lost work and frustration. Purchasers of proprietary software become involuntary testers. What's more, if users find a flaw, even if they know how to solve it, the software license prohibits them from making the fix themselves. Open source software, in contrast, is often developed by loosely organized communities of programming enthusiasts, collaborating via the Internet. Anyone with an interest and some requisite degree of ability is welcome to contribute sections of the program or to look for errors in existing sections. Because no one is excluded from the development process, potentially hundreds of people can contribute to a project, providing a diverse group of talents and techniques. If a particular company has a financial interest in the success of an open-source project (through strengthening its brand name, increasing demand for related products, or through sales of technical support), they will often hire programmers to work on the project. Other contributors (and for some projects, all contributors) may be individuals working in their spare time, out of interest rather than for compensation. Open source enthusiast Eric Raymond describes a successful OSS development project in his essay "The Cathedral and the Bazaar.[4]" Good OSS projects, he says, reuse as much code from other projects as possible to avoid duplicated work. They rely heavily on feedback and suggestions from users of the software, operating under the principle of "release early, release often, and listen to your customers."[5] This intense peer review process, shared among a potentially large group of developers and testers, finds and eliminates errors in software faster than any proprietary effort could. In Raymond's words, "Given a large enough beta-tester and co-developer base, almost every problem will be characterized quickly and the fix obvious to someone. Or, less formally, 'Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow.'"[6] Open source software is closely connected to open communications standards (or protocols), such as the Internet standards, which allow many types of computer equipment to communicate over networks. Both are developed through widespread informal collaboration. Any communications protocols used in open source software are inherently open, since an implementation of the protocol is revealed in the open source code. The existence of an open source implementation of a communications protocol ensures the openness of the protocol. Conversely, proprietary software allows for proprietary protocols, since details of the protocol can be hidden in the secret source code. The Apache project, makers of an open source web server which serves over half of all World Wide Web pages, explains this relationship well: To the extent that the protocols of the World Wide Web remain "unowned" by a single company, the Web will remain a level playing field for companies large and small. Thus, "ownership" of the protocol must be prevented, and the existence of a robust reference implementation of the protocol [in the form of working software], available absolutely for free to all companies, is a tremendously good thing.[7] Though anyone can contribute to them, open source projects often have some form of central authority which collects and combines the changes which others make. These authorities, whether an individual, a corporation, or a nonprofit, work to maintain compatibility and conformance to standards in balance with improvements from the community of developers. This keeps open source software compatible with the Internet and other important standards, and prevents "fracturing," the divergence of several concurrent versions of the same software to the point of incompatibility. An example of this sort of informal coordination can be seen in the Linux operating system: though a large group of developers contribute to new versions, Linus Torvalds, Linux's original creator, has final say over what code is included. Similarly, the Apache web server is overseen by the Apache Group, a self-selected group of programmers. Open source software is economically viable and presents numerous opportunities for profit. This seems counterintuitive, since the availability of source code allows the user to obtain a piece of software at no cost. But many companies have already realized substantial profit from their OSS efforts. Red Hat Software has become a fast-growing and profitable company selling boxed versions of the Linux operating system, complete with manuals, technical support via telephone, and a simple installer program. Red Hat customers, some 7.5 million by the company's estimate, chose to pay about $50 for the added value which the company provides to Linux users -- even though the company itself gives Linux away for free. As the company says: "Most of the software is available -- at no charge -- to anyone with the time and inclination to download it. But not everyone has that much time...A company's distribution has its own feature set, and some are geared towards specific types of computer systems. Like many other such groups, our approach is to bundle all the necessary bits and pieces into a cohesive distribution."[8] Both individuals and businesses are willing to pay for this convenience. Additionally, the software itself retains some economic value even if it is given away for free. The Open Source Initiative web site explains this way: "If having a program written is a net economic gain for a customer over not having it written, a programmer will get paid whether or not the program is going to be free after it's done."[9] An eloquent testimonial to the effectiveness of OSS comes improbably from one of its opponents, the Microsoft Corporation. An internal Microsoft memo now known as the "Halloween Document," which was leaked to Eric Raymond and subsequently posted on the Internet, says the following about OSS: "The ability of the OSS process to collect and harness the collective IQ of thousands of individuals across the Internet is simply amazing. More importantly, OSS evangelization scales with the size of the Internet much faster than our own evangelization efforts appear to scale."[10] History of the Idea Although the term "open source software" was coined rather recently, the idea has existed for many years. In the 1960's, when computers were cumbersome and esoteric, all software was essentially "open source." As all computer users at the time were effectively also software developers, whose work required them to make changes to the software they used on a regular basis, the computers made by manufacturers such as IBM were generally shipped with source code included. In the close-knit community of computer scientists, programs and ideas were shared freely. Beginning in the 1970's, when many types of businesses (and later, individuals) began using computers for more diverse tasks, software became proprietary in the interest of profit. With only a small fraction of computer users actually writing software, it became profitable to limit source code access and modification rights to within a single company. The one area where OSS has thrived in the period of proprietary software development is in the creation of the Internet. The programs on which the Internet depends are for the most part open source software. The Apache web server, the Sendmail mail-forwarding program, and BIND, which manages Internet addresses, are all open source, and each dominates its market. Many developers who had done work in the earlier period of software development felt that a sense of collaboration and cooperation had been lost, and that software quality would suffer as a result. One of these was Richard Stallman, who in 1983 founded the Free Software Foundation (FSF)[11] to promote collaborative, open software development. Today the FSF remains a key player in the open source initiative. Another major event in the re-emergence of OSS occurred in 1991 when Linus Torvalds, a college student in Finland, created an open source version of the Unix operating system. This operating system, called Linux, is now a mature product, claiming over 7.5% of the 3.5 million installed server operating systems (compared to Microsoft Windows NT's 36%).[12] It is among the top five operating systems in use worldwide. Many people consider Linux to be faster and more error-free than Windows NT or other proprietary operating systems. A large group of developers from almost every continent, as well as several commercial companies,[13] maintain and update Linux. Development of Linux occurs very fast. During periods of intense development work, new versions are sometimes released as often as once a day. When new features are added, they are scrutinized by the development community, which finds and corrects all manner of errors. New versions of Linux often evolve to shipping quality in a matter of weeks, rather than the months or even years of testing which are common in proprietary software development. In March of 1998, Netscape Communications, makers of the most popular Internet browser, shocked the software community by announcing that they would release the source code to their browser and begin to accept changes and improvements from the Internet community. In essence, the Netscape browser was changed from proprietary to open source. This decision arguably made Netscape the first well-known, mass marketable piece of software to embrace the open source model. Though Netscape will soon cease to exist as an independent company, having been acquired by America Online, the browser code it released belongs permanently to the open source community (through the independent entity mozilla.org) and can never be returned to its proprietary state. Private and Public Advantages Open source software has several distinct advantages over proprietary software. As described above, the widespread peer review process involved in open source development creates software which is more error-free and resource-efficient than proprietary software. In addition, OSS is a must for security-critical applications. As computer security expert Bruce Schneier points out, true security is never achieved by attempting to conceal any security defects that a program may have, but rather by allowing anyone interested to seek out these flaws and eliminate them.[14] Open source software makes this possible. Many government agencies will not use a piece of software in a security-critical application unless the agency itself can examine the source code for flaws; in the case of proprietary software, this often means difficult and costly negotiations allowing the agency access to the source code. If open source software is available to fill such a need, source code is available at no extra cost to the government, and in many cases the software is already more secure. These advantages to the individual customer which are provided by open source software obviously benefit government users as well. Low cost, reliability, security, and the ability to modify software to suit specific needs are all important priorities to government purchasing authorities. However, these benefits do not make a case for specific government action to promote OSS. In Raymond's words, "The open-source culture will triumph not because cooperation is morally right or software "hoarding" is morally wrong, ...but simply because the closed-source world cannot win an evolutionary arms race with open-source communities that can put orders of magnitude more skilled time into a problem."[15] However, the widespread use of OSS would benefit the U.S. economy as a whole in several ways, and it is for these reasons that government policy which facilitates and promotes open source software development would serve a public good, and is therefore a justifiable and beneficial government endeavor. The first public benefit of OSS is that it eliminates the economic loss which results from duplicated work. The vast majority of all code (a standard estimate is 75%)[16] written for a specific task by a single company, government agency, or military branch, and is never used for any other purpose. Many problems in computer engineering show up in multiple fields and applications. If a private company creating software for scientific research, for example, must spend its cash and programmer time to create a specific tool from scratch when a military research facility has already written software which performs the same function, economic waste occurs which hurts U.S. productivity as a whole. If source code developed for a specific government application is made publicly available, corporations can spend their resources to improve this software, add value, and find new markets for it, rather than recreating it from scratch. The reverse is true as well: government and military agencies could use source code developed by corporations at no cost, allowing huge savings in government procurement and R&D expenditures. Another area which the government has already identified as a public interest is working to solve the Year 2000 (Y2K) problem. This refers to the errors which may occur when many computer systems' clocks reach January 1, 2000. Since many important systems store years by their last two digits only, these systems will read 2000 as 1900. This could cause many critical computer systems at banks, hospitals, and in government, to stop working, with the potential for catastrophic failure. President Clinton and Congress have taken an interest in working to prevent such failures, including the passage of legislation which allocates funds to the solution of the problem and encourages private companies to begin working towards a solution as well. If more computer systems utilized open source software, a solution to the Y2K problem would be much simpler and less expensive. This is because the Y2K problem is uniquely suited to solution by an open source effort -- the problem is extremely widespread but each individual solution is simple. For many programs, solving the problem requires a programmer to find each reference to a date and each calculation performed on dates, and expand it to allow for four-digit year references. The difficulty is finding all references to the date in very large programs. Doing so requires a massively cooperative effort to see that no reference is overlooked. If software is proprietary, the number of people with access to source code, and therefore the number of people available to find and correct all date references, is severely limited. With open source software, on the other hand, an almost unlimited group of programmers can share this work, allowing for a much more effective solution. In addition, access to source code allows a government agency or company to verify for itself that Y2K problems have been solved, without having to trust the manufacturer's claims.[17] Because the solution to the Y2K problem is easy in the context of open source development, almost all commercial quality open source software on the market today, such as the Linux operating system, is already Y2K-ready. Perhaps the most compelling reason why the promotion of open source software serves a public good is that OSS is inherently anti-monopolistic, and may serve as an effective antidote for the monopolistic tendencies which some economists believe exist in the software industry. The market for computer operating systems and other key applications is currently dominated by the Microsoft Corporation. In its ongoing antitrust lawsuit against Microsoft, the Justice Department has claimed that Microsoft is using illegal methods to maintain and extend its monopoly in a way which hinders competition and stifles innovation[18]. Economist Brian Arthur theorized that the phenomenon of network externalities (also called "increasing returns") creates monopolies in high-tech industries and allows inferior products to maintain market dominance at the expense of consumers. In software, according to his theory, "there is no presumption...that superior technology wins."[19] Network externalities means that the value of a product increases with the number of people using it. This is often true in software, since the more people using a particular operating system, the more incentive developers have to write applications for that operating system and not others, which in turn reinforces the market dominance of the operating system. A small initial advantage can lead to a virtually unbreakable monopoly.[20] This phenomenon can also occur in other product relationships besides the operating system-application relationship, such as software which interacts over a network using a particular protocol. Monopoly control through network externalities depends on keeping the underlying structure of software, and the details of how it interacts with other software, a secret. Because only Microsoft has access to and control over the software interface through which application programs interact with the Windows operating system, it would be nearly impossible for any other company to design an operating system which could run programs designed for Windows. Microsoft's exclusive control of the Windows programming interface is what has allowed it to exclude other operating system competitors, such as IBM's OS/2. The open source operating system Linux, on the other hand, does not allow this sort of monopolistic exclusion. Because the source code of Linux is open and freely available, anyone can distribute Linux or write another operating system which can run Linux application programs. Thus, application developers would have no need to favor a particular operating system manufacturer, and the cycle of monopoly "lock-in" would be broken. Even if Linux captured a majority of the market for operating systems, no single company would be able to erect barriers to competition. In fact, there are several companies and organizations developing professional-quality Linux systems, and the vast majority of software written for any of these systems will run on any other. Microsoft is well aware of how OSS eliminates monopoly power. In the "Halloween Document," the internal Microsoft memo previously mentioned, Microsoft technician Vinod Valloppillil observes that: "OSS poses a direct, short-term revenue and platform threat to Microsoft... Additionally, the intrinsic parallelism and free idea exchange in OSS has benefits that are not replicable with our current licensing model and therefore present a long term developer mindshare threat."[21] Valloppillil also acknowledges that OSS prevents monopoly control because it guarantees the availability of open protocols for software interaction. "Linux can win," he says, "as long as services/protocols are commodities,"[22] referring to the open communications standards which Linux uses. Government, through the Justice Department and other agencies, is already committing resources to correct the apparent problems caused by monopoly power in the software industry. A program of OSS promotion and encouragement would be a cost-effective contribution to this effort. Recommendations for Government Action There are several inexpensive ways in which government could help the open source effort: * Being the world's largest consumer of computer software, the U.S. Government has the ability to promote the widespread use and continued development of open source software through its purchasing policies. Not only would many government agencies benefit from the added reliability and security which OSS products provide, but the increased demand for these products would encourage more corporations and independent programmers to embrace OSS methods. This trend has already begun on a small scale: the U.S. Postal Service, for example, uses a highly modified version of Linux to read addresses on envelopes electronically. Many other agencies use Linux for network administration tasks, as it is considerably more affordable then the competing Windows NT software. A risk-free way to assess the benefits of OSS to particular government agencies would be for Congress to initiate a study by the General Accounting Office. The conclusions of such a study could serve as a road map for future software procurement. The study could address the following questions: 1. Does open source software deliver more reliability and security relative to its cost than proprietary software? 2. Which government agencies could benefit from a transition to open source software, such as the Linux operating system? 3. Would it be feasible for these agencies to begin a transition to the use of open source software? * Another possible government action involves the vast pool of software created for internal tasks within the government and the military. Collecting nonclassified source code in a series of repositories for the purpose of allowing public access would benefit both government and the public. Companies and individuals will have access to the expertise of government and military software engineers, obviating the need to solve software problems which have already been solved. Additionally, if some individual or group takes an interest in improving some piece of software in use in a government agency, the agency will reap the benefit, at no cost to taxpayers. Many agencies would no doubt object to the perceived security risk involved in disclosing government source code. As mentioned above, computer security experts consider this argument fallacious. A determined attacker can find security flaws in software with or without the source code, so concealing the source is actually more of a hindrance to those who could seek out and correct security flaws than to those who would exploit them. To put it simply, concealing source code leads to a false sense of security. Opening source code to the public, though it may create short-term apprehensions, will result in more secure software in the long run. * These actions can be addressed in terms of the ongoing effort to eliminate the Year 2000 Problem from government systems. Using nearly any recently developed OSS software assures Y2K readiness, and opening the source code of internally developed software allows for easier modification of that software to solve the problem. These issues should be brought to the attention of the Council on Year 2000 Conversion recently established by President Clinton. * Finally, as discussed above, open source and open standards go hand in hand. Simple, open communications protocols and standards of compatibility facilitate OSS development, as they form a fundamental building block of any OSS project. "OSS projects have been able to gain a foothold in many server applications because of the wide utility of highly commoditized, simple protocols," writes Microsoft's Valloppillil. Significantly, the strategy proposed in that document for competing against OSS is "extending these protocols and developing new protocols,"[23] which implies replacing open standards with proprietary ones. It is precisely this sort of predatory practice which the government should oppose, both on antitrust grounds and specifically to prevent Microsoft from using its control of protocols to interfere with OSS development. The government should more vigorously lend its support to the open standards developed by industry, such as the Internet Engineering Task Force's standard set. ========================================================================= From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:35:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:05:06 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] UK Government Adopts Linux WebServers Message-ID: UK Government Chooses Linux Wednesday, 20th October 1999 When the time came to replace the ageing Sun Solaris machines that the British Government employed to run its web sites, the CCTA (Central Computer and Telecommunications Agency) the agency that advises UK Government departments on the use of technology, and which also runs the web sites, chose Linux. The fact was noticed by Netcraft , which has a service that can detect which OS and Web Server are in use on any site. In actual fact NetCraft picked up the fact that the British Royal Family are now Linux users, but this does not imply partiality by Her Royal Highness to the open source movement. The CCTA actually switched all UK Government web sites over to Linux following internal tests. The Government Information Service systems manager Mick Morgan described the decision as a "no-brainer". He was impressed by the reliability that was evident from the tests that were done and remarked that "the Linux on Intel combination blew Sun out of the water". So now the 85 web sites run by the CCTA run on five Dell 23000 Dual Pentium II 450 machines with 512 MB RAM each and 27 Gigabytes of disk. The Linux version is Red Hat 5.2 with Apache 1.3.3. All of this has to be very sobering for both Sun and Microsoft. Microsoft cannot realistically pursue the line that Linux is not enterprise ready when it is the choice under test, by the official government agency, for the largest user of computers in the UK - the Government. The work by the CCTA confirms our own research in this area, just as we go to press. Linux is robust and it is reliable and it scales well enough to run a very very large web site. In case you wondered, the Royal web site is one of the most active government sites in the world often clocking a million visitors a day and accommodating much more than that when there is some compelling royal news. ======================================================================= See http://www.open.gov.uk/ for more information. open.gov.uk is a service provided by the Central Computer and Telecommunications Agency (CCTA). History of service CCTA began work on investigating the possibilities for the development of information superhighways in March 1994 with a feasibility study. In mid 1994 CCTA published a consultative report, "Information Superhighways, Opportunities for public sector applications in the UK". This report outlined potential applications that would be made possible by the advent of digital information superhighways. This stimulated useful debate within the UK and CCTA received much positive feedback on the report. As a result of this response CCTA held a meeting in November 1994 in order to develop the consultative process and lay the foundations for the UK exploitation of the "Information Superhighway". At this meeting the CCTA Government Information Service (CGIS) - www.open.gov.uk - was launched as a pilot Internet service to investigate the technological and information issues associated with the electronic delivery of information and services to the public. The service was launched with the following objectives to: * support the objectives of the Citizen's Charter and Open Government * publish government information * provide a single point of entry for people who want access to government information * provide a service which is simple to use * provide low cost access * provide a means by which government departments could gain experience of publishing information on the internet. The service still has these objectives but is now available to any public sector organisation. The advent of Modernising Government has added greater importance to, and expanded on, these objectives. Since 1994 we have developed considerable expertise in all aspects of running a web site and publishing on the World Wide Web. Our site is now one of the largest and busiest public sector sites in Europe and is highly regarded throughout the world. In the UK its position as a leader in the field of World Wide Web publishing and developments has been recognised by many in the public and private sectors. The service has been awarded many prizes and commendations in acknowledgement of this achievement. One Award committee commented that 'this project has set the guidelines for the use of the Internet within Government for the next few years'. The Internet arena has continued to move forward at quite a speed. More recently we have seen more sophisticated and efficient video and audio technologies, the use of dynamic applications to serve web-based information, Internet shopping and more secure methods of carrying out transactions across the web, to name but a few of the new developments. We have been keeping pace with many of these advances, reflected by our ever increasing range of products. Here are some of the key milestones which this service has gone through in this time. August 1994 comencment of service December 1994 service receives 35,000 accesses a week April 1995 service receives 1,000,000 total accesses since launch May 1995 service receives 2,000,000 total accesses since launch. We stop counting total accesses at this point and just record weekly statistics! August 1997 over the course of 10 calander days the service receives 35,000,000 accesses, mainly due to the death of Princess Diana August 1999 service averages 14,000,000 accesses a week Awards CCTA has collected a number of awards over the years for the open.gov.uk web site. here is just a brief summary of the major ones. Computing UK internet user of the year Computing UK Internet User of the Year John Horam, then Minister for Public Service, said: "I am delighted that 'Computing' has recognised CCTA's achievement in providing this service. The Government Centre for Information Systems deserves credit for opening up the Information Superhighway and providing information to people electronically. Increasingly, organisations and individuals are able to access government information around the clock. This award demonstrates the Government's commitment to using leading edge technology to improve service to the public." Magellan 4-Star Award The highest rated UK Government site on the World Wide Web. magellan says: "Vast Web sites are rarely better organized and navigable than this one created by Great Britain's Central Computer and Telecommunications Agency. The CCTA Government Information Service Web site allows users to effortlessly locate an enormous range of UK government information and services. Searches can be performed through a number of indices, news updates are readily available and linked to relevant sites, and government online projects are showcased. There is also a server information page containing tips on how to create a Web site and an eminently useful help page." Lycos top 5% web site in the world It's a good thing the United Kingdom isn't as big as, say, the United States, because then this list of government sites would be enormous. As it is, the listing (indexed alphabetically or by subject) is pretty large. Whether you're looking for acts of parliament, the Metropolitan Police of London or the "Andrew" (that's the Royal Navy), you'll find the pages of scores of organizations here. And we're not talking about a few lines of fluff at these sites -- many offer statistics, pictures and otherwise hard-to-find info. Just browsing through the list is fun, too: you'll come across great agency names, like "Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Pollution." Excite 3 star site The highest rated UK Government site on the World Wide Web. Excite says: The British Government and all its appendages are here. You will find the upmarket Cabinet Office, the decidedly downmarket Hertfordshire County Council and everything in between. Links to the Royal Observatory and museums too. Useful. NetGuide gold site, the highest rated UK Government site on the World Wide Web. If you really want to track the royals on a daily basis or read what Scotland Yard has to say about the death of a police prisoner, here's where you access the UK government's handouts. You can tap into other information from the Bank of England, Cabinet Office, Crown Prosecution Service, Department of National Heritage, Lord Chancellor's Department, Ministry of Defence, Office of Telecommunications, National Criminal Intelligence Service, and others that take the somewhat irregular pulse of the sceptred isle. Innovation in electronic government CCTA are pleased to announce the following awards received from 'Government Computing' magazine. * CCTA Government Information Service received the 'Innovation in Electronic Government Award 1996'. * The Government On-Line Project received the 'Special Award for Innovation for Electronic Government Award 1996' jointly with the Treasury Board of Canada. * The Award for Electronic Government for Central Government Suppliers for GCAT, the Government Purchasing Catalogue for IT equipment, shared with EDS and ICL Networking industry awards 1996. The judges said: "It's not often the Government comes up with an innovative use of technology but the CCTA project was the winner. Easily the most ambitious development that was entered into this category, this project has set the guidelines for the use of the Internet within Government for the next few years." Copyright 1999, CCTA From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 13:52:13 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 19:22:13 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <3B6EA10D.F81E2E62@ti.com> Raju Mathur wrote: > > all, what you /might/ get called by a misinformed press is more > important than what you do, isn't it? > > Ever hear the term ``knee-jerk reaction''? Sorry, I am not interested in debating this, as you said in your later mail, if you are hosting your letter on non-FSF-I site, I don't see any point in debating this issue. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 14:25:39 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Suraj Kumar S.) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:55:39 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org>; from raju@linux-delhi.org on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 05:06:30PM +0530 References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <20010806195538.A30198@in.inapp.com> > Ever hear the term ``knee-jerk reaction''? > > *Disgusted* I completely agree with RK that, we *should not* have opensource anywhere in our written materials/site. No need to be disgusted Raju. Your letter is really enlightening and whoever reads it will stop and think before opting for propritory. But, as FSF-India our goal should be "Freedon first !". There are many people out there to talk about opensource, but not Freedom. We have to highlight that. -suraj -- GNU/Linux rulz! From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 13:23:02 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:53:02 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] Why Govt. Should Promote Open Source Software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 at 14:54, Raj Singh wrote: The enclosed feature article is US Government specific. Surely, this can be adpated for India too. I was planning to write something similar, but dropped that when I came across this article. The last section of the article is missing (I could not download it presently). [...] Raj, you are doing a great service, however, I wonder, instead of sending the whole document to the list, you could have posted the URL of a document that you think will be of useful to the subscribers. That will save a lot of bandwidth, diskspace and mailserver load, please be kind enough to appreciate these constraints. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 15:05:11 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 20:35:11 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: Message-ID: <3B6EB227.20448ED5@eth.net> "Rajagopal C.V" wrote: > need be the FSF-India can immediately convene a press conference to > alert( or enlighten) the press on the points highlighted by Raju Mathur. I FEEL IT IS A MUST. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 14:59:20 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Suraj Kumar S.) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:29:20 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [Reader-list] Re: [LIG] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010806134757.009fc060@mail.sarai.net>; from joy@sarai.net on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 02:00:37PM +0530 References: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <01080612485801.00795@krishna> <5.1.0.14.2.20010806134757.009fc060@mail.sarai.net> Message-ID: <20010806202920.B30198@in.inapp.com> Hello Mr. Chatterjee, First of all, let me take this opportunity to educate you that, there is no operating system called Linux. IT IS ONLY A KERNEL. The operating system which is popular as Linux is actually GNU/Linux. please visit gnu.org.in (or) gnu.org for more details. On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 02:00:37PM +0530, Joy Chatterjee wrote: > "Where as in case of GNU/Linux anyone can add the Indian Language layer > depending on the needs." > Its all theory but in reality MS Office has a hindi version but any Linux > software do not have any hindi version, Quark Express is also working on a > hindi version but Linux doesn't even have any publishing software like > QuarkExpress (and also web designing software), forget about Indian versions. > It is more over frustrating to see that there is no alternative of server > end bitstream technology for easy viewing of indian web pages in Linux. But > truth is IE has! The support that you are talking about in the above mentioned propritory softwares is little. And let me tell you that, even if they give some support, you will have to remain confined to that - zero enhancements, zero customization , zero room for additions. You will be in a JAIL. > So I don't know how Linux people claim that Linux has more scope in Indian > language, where as proprietary models are already working on it !!! There are a number of FreeSoftware projects running aimed at creating softwares for GNU/Linux in Indian Languages. Iam myself involved in one called Project Indigo - a project aimed at making GNU-Linux a viable platform for Indic computing. As part of the project, developments are in progress for creating/adopting various tools like - editor, browser etc. (Refer: inapp.com/indigo for more details). -suraj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 17:34:27 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:04:27 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] ARIS worm notification Message-ID: <15214.54563.883563.376656@mail.linux-delhi.org> Hi, As you're aware, the ARIS worm is spreading real fast on the Internet. My dial-up machine has received nearly 200 ARIS probes from infected machines since this morning, in about 6 hours of uptime. SecurityFocus has setup an ARIS notification address. They will notify the administrators of infected systems given the IP's of these systems, which will help curb the spread of the virus. This is a request to please cull your HTTP logs (if you're running HTTPD) and send the appropriate information to SecurityFocus. The command to do this is: fgrep ".ida?XXXXX" /var/log/httpd/access_log | \ cut -d" " -f1,4,5 | \ sed -e 's/[][]//g' | \ Mail -s "ARIS Infection Report from httpd access_log" aris-report@securityfocus.com [Line may have wrapped] This would work on a RH 6.2 system. Please use the appropriate path to your Apache logfile for other systems. Regards, -- Raju -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 18:35:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Devang Patel) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:35:06 -0700 Subject: [FSF India] Purchasing Power [Was ... Re: GNU/Linux in Schools] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thursday, August 2, 2001, at 11:11 AM, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > > IN A 'SOFTWARE SUPER-POWER', RURAL KIDS LACK THE CODE TO LEARN... > > By Frederick Noronha > -------------------- Really well covered article with lots of good points. > Of course, at the end of the day, much of the Indian educational > software > scarcity simply boils down to a question of economics. In spite of their > millions-strong numbers, the rural dweller simply doesn't have the > purchasing power. So why should anyone bother with writing software > specifically for him? Even if this is a country that is increasingly > claiming the status of being the world's software superpower. (ENDS) > I think, today or tomorrow, we need to get over this myth of purchasing power. On the paper the rural india does not have the purchasing power, but - Somebody managed to sell Millions of Bajaj Scooters/ Hero Honda/ Yamaha/ Suzuki... - Somebody managed to sell thousands of Maruties - Somebody managed to sell many many Television sets (did anybody count?) - Somebody managed to sell many many Refrigerators - Even on newest electronic appliance in the market -- "Washing Machine" -- somebody is making money... - Half of the total population (I do not have exact number) do not get fresh/pure drinking water, but somehow Pepsi/Coca-cola seems to make lots of money... Bottom line is -- if one gives enough reason to buy he will always find a market to survive in India. My thoughts, Devang From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 00:54:20 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Mathias Koerber) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:54:20 +0800 Subject: [FSF India] Fw: CodeRedII worm.. Message-ID: <004c01c11edb$7f177780$f4db7fcb@dean.koerber.org> -----Original Message----- From: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu To: nanog@merit.edu ; bugtraq@merit.edu ; incidents@merit.edu Date: Sunday, August 05, 2001 4:30 PM Subject: CodeRedII worm.. | |Given that initial analysis of the CodeRedII worm indicates that it leaves |a backdoor laying around, I hereby request that those people who made |lists of infected hosts available last time *NOT* do so again. | |Although said lists *were* helpful in the analysis and study of the worm's |tactics, the benefits are certainly outweighted by the fact that the new |worm creates a known backdoor. I'm certain that both the CodeRedII author |and other black hats would love for us to compile a list of afflicted hosts |for them to use. | |So please everybody - if you're sending IP's in to be added to a table, |make sure you're sending them to a white hat, not to a black hat who's |managed to social-engineer you. If you're a white had compiling a list, |make sure the guy's hat is at least a light grey before you give them |a copy. ;) | | Valdis Kletnieks | Operating Systems Analyst | Virginia Tech | From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 18:18:54 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:48:54 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] ARIS worm notification In-Reply-To: <15214.54563.883563.376656@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, Raju Mathur wrote: > As you're aware, the ARIS worm is spreading real fast on the > Internet. My dial-up machine has received nearly 200 ARIS probes > from infected machines since this morning, in about 6 hours of > uptime. Thanks for the notification. I had 241 probes from 154 unique IPs. I have notified my ISP also about this raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 04:30:05 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:00:05 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] Web Sites Related Free/OpenSource/OpenContent Message-ID: OPEN SOURCE/CONTENT SITES

Software Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Debian's Social Contract
  • Free Software Organization
  • Free Software Foundation (FSF)
  • GNU (GNU is Not Unix) Stuff
  • GNU in India
  • Open Source Research Team (OSRT) at UNC/iBiblio
  • ESR's Open Source Software (OSS) Site
  • Open Source It
  • Open Office
  • Open Source Development Network (OSDN)
  • Advogato : Free Software Developer's Advocate
  • Be Open Source
  • My Open Source
  • Free Source Code (Andover Net)
  • Open Resources Initiative (Free Software Related)
  • EarthWeb's Open Resources IT
  • Mozilla Site
  • Lycos/Netscape's Open Directory (earlier New Hoo!)
  • Open Object Directory Services
  • OpenSSH (Secure Shell)
  • Open Code (Harvard's Berkman Center Initiative)
  • Open Content Site
  • Open Source Writer's Group (OSWG)
  • Open Source Writer's Group (OSWG)
  • Open Projects Network
  • Software in Public Interest (SPI)
  • OpenDWG Alliance : AutoCAD DWG Format Reverse Engineering
  • NuPedia : Open Content Encyclopedia
  • OpenAvenue Portal on Open Source
  • Open Certification Authority (OpenCA)
  • Open Source Security Tools
  • Open Source CRM Tools
  • Free E-Commerce Software (FECS)
  • Music in Public-Domain
  • OpenVerse Chat Program

    Resources for Open Source/Content Software

  • Cooperative Funding for Open Source Software (CoSourceCom)
  • Source Forge
  • SourceXchange Closed ?
  • Free Software Com
  • Open Codex : Making Compression Free
  • DivX News
  • Apple's Public Source Site
  • Kaivo : Open Source Marketplace
  • O'Reilly Open Books
  • NetAction's Open Source Site
  • Salon's Open Source Special
  • Ziff-Davis Open Source Site

    Hardware Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Open Cores
  • European Space Agency's Leon (SPARC-like) Core
  • Open Hardware
  • Freedom CPU Project
  • Knuth's MMIX Processor
  • Knuth's MMIX Processor Masters
  • Sun's Technology Community Resources (picoJava and SPARC)

    Telecom/Networking Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Open H323 Software for VoIP
  • OpenPhone Software for VoIP
  • Open Telecom Software

    Science Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Open Science Org
  • Open Source in Open Science (BNL)
  • Open Astrophysics (LANL)
  • Open Collaboratory of Molecular Bioinformatics

    Medicine/Medical Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Open Health Resource Site
  • Open Med Resource Site
  • GNU Med
  • Linux+Medical Software News

    Law Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Open Law (OSS Concept Applied to Law Cases)

    Literature Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Bartleby Literature Resource Site
  • Project Gutenberg
  • On-line Books Resource Page
  • Belinus Press
  • Classic Books Bookshelf

    Government Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Public Policy Library From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 05:23:14 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:53:14 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Public-Funded Knowledge : Free v/s Commercial Message-ID: I have been advocating sharing of information (data, software, ...) among the various educational institutes/CSIR/ISRO/DRDO/BARC/CDAC/CDOT etc. -- particularly if we want to raise the academic teaching standards of RECs and State/Private Engineering Colleges within our country. I feel that public-funded institutes have the obligation to share and give freely their contributions to all who ask for it -- obviously barring the security-related strategic stuff. An example of this kind that springs to the mind is CDAC's word-processing software for Indian languages. It should have been given freely to all government departments, goverment-funded institutes, etc. as it was developed with "public" money. CDAC should have been in turn supported to further enhance this software by the money which was otherwise spent on commercial word-processing software by these bodies -- this is a very large amount if one totals up all that has been already spent on this type of procurement till date. In contrast, CDAC was "forced" to ask money for it from others as they had to "commercially" justify the development of this package. Similarly for NCST developed Hindi software. I understand that NCST subsequently tied-up with Microsoft and this formed the kernel of Indian language support touted by Microsoft for MS-Word in 1999. So, now the government and Indian public is paying Microsoft for what (in some sense) was developed with public money and "belongs" to them ! -- Raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 05:07:09 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:37:09 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Possible OpenAcademic Action Message-ID: Perhaps something on these lines should be adopted by the academic community in India too. I expect IITs/IISc/IIITs would need to take the lead. ============ We seek to -- * develop interoperable, open pedagogical software that can be used for teaching and learning over the Net, and for which its code can be viewed and extended by anyone in the public interest; * be a platform for the use of that software for the production of rich, open educational content; * develop new means of open academic research. ============= Picked the above from http://www.opencode.org/, which is a consortium of entrepreneurial people and institutions wanting to create a space for open software, open research, and open content. -- Raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 05:51:44 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:21:44 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] NetAction Site : Worth a Visit Message-ID: <> (http://www.netaction.org/) site is worth a visit. Extracts from [1999:ARTICLE] On MS Monopolizing US Education Market follow. -- Raj ==================================================================== Microsoft Goes to College: The US Education Software Market and Microsoft's Expanding Monopoly Editor's Note: This issue features an in-depth analysis by Nathan Newman of Microsoft's strategy for monopolizing the U.S. higher education market. As Nathan explains, if Microsoft succeeds in capturing the campus software market, it could effectively turn our state university systems into private workforce training programs. To help students mobilize against Microsoft's campus software deals, NetAction intern Mitch Stoltz has created a Campus Action Tool Kit, with samples of letters and petitions, a flyer which can be printed for campus distribution, and tips for campus organizing. You will find the Tool Kit at: http://www.netaction.org/msoft/edu/. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 17:55:17 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:25:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15214.17662.822934.812755@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: I've forwarded a version of this letter to Goa IT minister Ramakant Khalap. On behalf of www.bytesforall.org, we would like to add our name as a signatory to this appeal to. BytesForAll is a total unfunded, GNU/Linux-inspired project that currently has 15 volunteers in six South Asian countries (Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Nepal, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka). We are small in number, but try to act as a force-multiplier by spreading around ideas that could be useful to our part of the globe. Best wishes in your work, Frederick. On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, Raju Mathur wrote: > Hi CVR, > Once the letter has been re- and re-re-drafted, I'd be glad to put it > up on my host (kandalaya.org) for signatories along with fsf.org.in. -------------------------------------------------- | Frederick Noronha, Freelance Journalist | | 784, Near Lourdes Convent, Saligao 403511 Goa | | Tel 0091.832.409490/409783 Mobile: 9822.12 24 36 | | E-mail: fred@bytesforall.org or fred@vsnl.com | /) URL-http://www.bytesforall.org | / URL-http://www.goacom.com/news/ \\ _( (+-------------------------------------------------+) ) /| (((\ \) /_) /^) / /))/ (\\\\ \_/ / \ \_ / / // \ / \ / \ __/ \__ / | | | | /*******\ /*******\ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 09:23:16 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 14:53:16 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Public-Funded Knowledge : Free v/s Commercial References: Message-ID: <3B6FB384.44F0D392@ti.com> Raj Singh wrote: > > I have been advocating sharing of information (data, software, ...) among > the various educational institutes/CSIR/ISRO/DRDO/BARC/CDAC/CDOT etc. -- > particularly if we want to raise the academic teaching standards of RECs > and State/Private Engineering Colleges within our country. I heard that in places like ISRO/DRDO, even internal sharing doesn't happen(reportedly due to internal politics and unhealthy competition). So people endup doing the same thing ad-infinitum from scratch. Here in ISRO satellite center, I heard that they don't even have a proper intranet in place. I wonder how sharing can happen without proper communication facilities and proper mentality. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 16:03:46 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:33:46 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] ARIS -- Oops! Message-ID: <15216.4450.733833.864351@mail.linux-delhi.org> Umm, with regard to my earlier post regarding the worm, the Worm is actually called Code Red II and the reporting tool is called ARIS. Sorry about the confusion. Regards, -- Raju -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 17:38:55 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 23:08:55 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Violation of Fundamental Rights. Message-ID: <3B7027AF.B836D166@eth.net> Dear brothers and sisters Sorry for disturbing you. Is it legitimate to teach softwares that requires a license to practice? - at least in schools. It actually violate the Fundamental Rights. Folowing are my argumnents. 1. (i) Right to freedom of speach and expression . The word "expression" is a method of communicating your feelings and thought to others. I can use a pen and paper to write this letter. I can also user a computer and printer to write this letter. These things are taught at school level. The main difference between these two methods is that the later one requires a license (if tools taught in schools are used) from somebody else - a clear cut violation of our Fundamental Rights. 2. Cultural and Educational Rights. 3. Right to Constitutional Remedies Students are not informed of the fact that they require a license from a third party to use and practice what they are learning. They are kept in dark about this part. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 05:43:43 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:13:43 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] gnu.org.in Message-ID: The delta.christnagar.ac.in which is the primary nameserver for our domain is down from midnight yesterday. I have notified the concerned persons early this morning. I guess, there is a problem with their DOT link and I dont know when this is going to be fixed. Your posts will not appear till the nameserver is up. Apologies for the inconveniences caused in this respect. -- Radhakrishnan List Owner From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 08:54:32 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:24:32 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] Scientists Demand Open Access to Research Papers Message-ID: Public Library of Science (http://www.plos.org/) Should the record of scientific research be privately owned and controlled? We believe that the permanent, archival record of scientific research and ideas should neither be owned nor controlled by publishers, but should belong to the public, and should be made freely available. We support the establishment of international online public libraries of science that contain the complete text of all published scientific articles in searchable and interlinked formats. If you agree, we ask you to join 16,842 of your colleagues from 139 countries in signing an open letter that urges publishers to allow the research reports that have appeared in their journals to be included in electronic archives and to be read and used without obstruction. Open Letter We support the establishment of an online public library that would provide the full contents of the published record of research and scholarly discourse in medicine and the life sciences in a freely accessible, fully searchable, interlinked form. Establishment of this public library would vastly increase the accessibility and utility of the scientific literature, enhance scientific productivity, and catalyze integration of the disparate communities of knowledge and ideas in biomedical sciences. We recognize that the publishers of our scientific journals have a legitimate right to a fair financial return for their role in scientific communication. We believe, however, that the permanent, archival record of scientific research and ideas should neither be owned nor controlled by publishers, but should belong to the public, and should be freely available through an international online public library. To encourage the publishers of our journals to support this endeavor, we pledge that, beginning in September, 2001, we will publish in, edit or review for, and personally subscribe to, only those scholarly and scientific journals that have agreed to grant unrestricted free distribution rights to any and all original research reports that they have published, through PubMed Central and similar online public resources, within 6 months of their initial publication date. ======================= Related News Item ====================== Publish Free or Perish Life scientists are urging publishers to grant free access to archived research articles When a molecular biologist or a biochemist has made a discovery -- often after many months or even years of tedious experiments -- they tell the rest of the world by publishing their results in a scientific journal. So far, these journals have controlled who can read them and who cannot -- but maybe not for much longer. E-mail, Internet discussion groups, electronic databases and pre- or e-print servers have already transformed the way scientists openly exchange their results. And in the life sciences, researchers are now demanding that their work be included in at least one free central electronic archive of published literature, challenging the traditional ownership of publishers. The demand has sparked widespread discussions among scientists, publishers, scientific societies and librarians about the future of scientific publishing. The outcome may be nothing short of a revolution in the scientific publishing world. It all started last fall, when an advocacy group called the Public Library of Science (PLoS) distributed an electronic open letter urging scientific publishers to hand over all research articles from their journals to public online archives for free within six months of publication. To add weight to their demands, the authors threatened a boycott starting in September 2001, pledging to "publish in, edit or review for, and personally subscribe to, only those scholarly and scientific journals" that agreed. As of April 21, 2001 some 15,817 life scientists from 138 countries had signed the letter, among them several Nobel laureates. The authors of the letter feel they have every right to make these demands. After all, it is the scientists who supply the journals with their productsthe manuscriptsfor free. Scientists also help journals by reviewing and judging the quality of each others work, a process called "peer review," without pay. Publishers, in exchange, edit the articles, organize the review process and provide news items and other content. Finally, they produce, market and distribute a printed or electronic journal. In the eyes of Michael Eisen, one of the initiators of the Public Library of Science initiative, the work that publishers do, however, does not justify that they then own the copyrights to the articles. "We think of the publishers as being like a midwife," he says. "They are paid for their role, and at the end of the day, they give the baby back to the parents." Publishers argue that unless they own the copyright, they cannot protect articles from misuse. And scientific publishing is big business: like other scientific societies, the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), for example, finances most of its activities with income from its publication, Science magazine. "I think scientists all over would be shocked to realize what a phenomenally lucrative business scientific publishing can be," Nicholas Cozzarelli, editor-in-chief of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA (PNAS), says. "There are huge sums of money to be had in this field." Journals Don't Play the Game What urged the authors of the open letter into action was the slow progress of PubMed Central, a free electronic full-text archive of research articles started by the National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) at the NIH in early 2000. By storing articles in a common format on a single site, PubMed Central wants to facilitate sophisticated literature searchesfor instance, those restricted to certain parts of a paper, such as the figure legends. Ultimately it also wants to link the literature to other online databases. PubMed Central asks journals to contribute their articles voluntarily as soon as possible after publication -- at most after a year -- giving the journals time to offer exclusive access to make a profit (studies have shown that the demand for research papers decreases sharply after only a few months). But so far, only seven journals, including PNAS and a collection of e-journals, are participating, and a few additional journals have signed up. Even though some journals make their back issues freely available at their own Web sites, they are reluctant to give them away elsewhere. "Journals have just not wanted to play the game," Eisen says. In physics, free electronic archives are old hat. Scientists have been submitting their own research papers -- both before and after publication -- to the Los Alamos e-print archive since 1991, without the participation of publishers, which simply had to accept the practice. Yet the American Physical Society, for example, still sells subscriptions to three journals that publish 14,000 research articles a year. Perhaps not surprisingly, though, many publishers, threatened with either financial losses or a boycott, have been overtly hostile to the open letter. A number of scientific societies depend on the income from their journals to support their activities. But some scientists liken this system to a tax on their papers and think societies should subsidize their activities in other ways. Also, some journals worry that outside archives hosting their articles will introduce errors into the files, lowering the reliability of the information. What if a ug (microgram) suddenly becomes a mg (milligram)? PubMed Central actually detected errors in some of the papers they were given, thereby increasing the overall quality. "The more eyes to look at it and fingers trying to work with it, the more things you can find," says David Lipman, director of the NCBI. On another level, some publishers resent a central, NIH-run archive like PubMed Central because they fear that technical failures would affect all users at once, and because the government might impose restrictions in the future, for example, by ruling not to publish certain kinds of research. On the other hand, PubMed, another NIH-managed database that grants free access to references and abstracts from 4,300 biomedical journals and links back to their Web sites, has been extremely successful and popular among both scientists and publishers. Moreover, publishers point out that a commercial electronic archive, managed by HighWirePress and including nearly 250 journals from many scientific disciplines, already exists and that government money is wasted. Unlike access to PubMed Central, however, most of the HighWire Press journals are not free. As a group, commercial publishers appear unsure about the recent developments and do not seem to have formulated their policies yet. Elsevier Science, Nature Publishing Group (a sister company to Scientific American, which is not a peer-reviewed journal), Cell Press and Academic Press declined interview requests, and Springer Verlag, as well as Allen Press, did not return phone calls. In a written statement, Annette Thomas, managing director of the Nature Publishing Group, commented that "many complex issues have been raised, and we are currently soliciting feedback from scientists, librarians, and other interested parties." Charging Authors, Not Readers One of the main questions to come from the current controversy is, Who will pay for publishing original research articles in the future if subscriptions decline? Only a small fraction of the publication costs of a print journal -- some estimate as little as 10 percent -- covers the editorial and peer review process. Many journals produce a costly print edition and add news, review articles and other valuable information, for which they have to pay. To offset their costs, journals derive income largely from subscriptions, as well as from advertisements, both in print and online, and reprints. But since subscriber numbers may decrease if the access to journal information becomes free elsewhere, various publishers are thinking about changing their business model: instead of billing readers, they plan to bill authors, a practice that is already common in the form of page charges. Overall, these submission charges would amount to only a small fraction of a scientist's total research costs, they say, and could easily be included in research budgets. Libraries, freed from subscription charges, could also chip in on behalf of authors at their institutions. Publishers would make exceptions for researchers from poor countries to ensure that no one is excluded for economic reasons. "We feel it is probably a better system to put the charges on the authors than the other way round," says Peter Newark, editorial director at BioMed Central, a commercial publisher from the U.K. But steep submission charges could steer budget-conscious scientists away from these publications. Many libraries seem to be in favor of open access archives like PubMed Central. "I think these are important efforts, and the library community is very supportive of them," says Joseph Branin, director of the Ohio State University libraries. In recent years, rapidly rising subscription rates for scientific journals have forced libraries to cancel many titles. Most of them now negotiate for electronic access to large sets of journals in consortia, giving them greater bargaining power. If journal articles became freely available after a while, some libraries might stop subscribing to them. But for many scientists, instant access to the literature is crucial to keep up with current developments, so libraries will probably keep subscribing to the most important titles. "Because its available freely over the Internet after the first year of publication does not necessarily mean we are going to cancel our subscriptions to those," Branin remarks. Smaller, specialist journals, however, might be in danger of going out of business. Libraries hope that subscription rates for the first few months -- before free access takes hold -- will come down. But the opposite might be true: if many libraries opted out, publishers might try to recover their costs from the remaining ones. "And for those institutions, my own surely included, this free information could be very expensive indeed," writes Ann Okerson, a librarian at Yale University, in a contribution to a Nature Web debate. Scientists and libraries in developing countries, which often cannot afford subscriptions, would probably benefit most from free electronic archives. A Possible Compromise on the Horizon Come September, will the scientists who signed the open letter really go through with a boycott? Journals depend on their authors, but equally, researchers in the life sciencesespecially young investigatorsneed to publish in "brand name" journals, such as Cell, Nature and Science, to advance their careers. "I can't afford to boycott these journals because my career is not established yet," says an assistant professor from a New York medical school, who asked to remain unnamed. Nobel Prize winners, on the other hand, may find it easier to divert their papers to less established publications. One of the practical problems of a boycott would be providing enough alternative journals for scientists to publish in. Some are thinking about starting their own journals. In mathematics, for example, some editorial boards in Europe have already left their commercial publishers and created new titles at their own institutions. "They are finding that while it does cost money, the costs are actually quite minimal," notes Mary Case of the Association of Research Libraries. BioMed Central also offers to provide the logistics for scientists who want to start their own journals. quote That said, a possible compromise has recently appeared on the horizon: only two weeks ago, PubMed Central announced it would allow participating publishers to link back to their own Web sites, rather than insist that they display full-text articles on the NIH server. PubMed Central would still obtain a full-text copy for search purposes, but they would hide it from public view. Many publishers are currently considering this solution. "I think lots of publishers will grant free access after a period of time on the basis proposed in this compromise," says Donald Kennedy, editor-in-chief of Science. He also thinks that "under those circumstances, the threat of a boycott will vanish." But for Eisen and many others, such an arrangement doesn't go far enough. Eisen still wants to see free access to alternative archives as well: "I remain absolutely convinced that the real future of publishing, five years out, is one in which nobody controls the literature." Whatever the outcome, the scientific publishing world is in turmoil. Both Nature and Science have started e-debates on their Web sites, and contributions from many sides are pouring in. "It [the open letter] was not an unreasonable proposal," Kennedy comments. "It has gotten a good conversation started." In the end, it will probably be the authors who decide the issue. As Case puts it, "It is the scientists who are going to have to figure out how they want their work to be available." ================================================================= Scientists Demand Open Access to Research Over 16,500 scientists from across the world have threatened to boycott all journals that refuse to provide free public online access to their articles within 6 months of publication. After all, the scientists provide the articles free of charge. What's the excuse the journals use? They claim that public archives introduce errors into the articles, making them unreliable! It sounds like scientists are getting a bit peeved now -- good for them. The lesson that "No, you don't have to give up all your rights to your work in exchange for publication anymore". ================================================================= From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 03:29:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 08 Aug 2001 08:59:06 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <863d73mdq5.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raju Mathur writes: > >>>>> "RK" == Ramakrishnan M writes: > > RK> Raju Mathur wrote: > >> We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom > >> proponents in India are deeply distressed to learn about your > >> Government's plans > > RK> I suggest avoiding the term Open Source, and use only the > RK> other two. Because, you see, it sends out wrong impressions > RK> outside. If a press release based on this letter comes out, > RK> FSF-India will be termed as a group Open Source proponents. > > Good idea. In fact, let's all create one version each of the letter > (GPL enthusiasts, BSD License enthusiasts, Open Source enthusiasts, > Electronic Freedom enthusiasts, etc); that way we'll be able to > achieve much more. Even if we don't, it doesn't matter since, after > all, what you /might/ get called by a misinformed press is more > important than what you do, isn't it? Yes, it is *very* important! Propagating the term "Open Source" keeps a "misinformed press" just that, misinformed. We *must* inform the press that the term Open Source is not interchangeable with Free Software and that, in fact, Open Source is nothing but a *dumbing down* of Free Software intended for people who do not understand such *complicated* things like FREEDOM! But a Free Press knows everything about freedom, doesn't it? A Free Press can be the most powerful ally of Free Software. Just calling them "misinformed" and leaving it at that is the worst approach. Enlightening the press about Free Software should be our topmost priority. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 03:57:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 08 Aug 2001 09:27:56 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raju Mathur writes: > Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State government > which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I am making it as > general-purpose as possible so that more people are willing to sign > it: this is not a time for family squabbles. I'd appreciate any > additions/enhancements which can be made to this letter. This otherwise well-crafted draft letter is incomplete if it does not mention the most important point about Free Software, namely FREEDOM. After all, it is being written to a democratically elected State Government and the "Right to Freedom" is a fundamental right enshrined in our Constitution; in particular, article 19, Freedom of Speech and Expression. The letter must impress upon the Government how proprietary software takes away our freedom. It must also advise the Government to ask its legal department to go through the notorious MS "End User License Agreement" to see if it is legal for a democratically elected Government to accept such a horrendous agreement on behalf of its people! As for the rest of the points which lucidly explain all the technical and monetary benefits of Free Software, let us not be naive and forget that we are up against a huge corporation which has a well-oiled and highly efficient marketing machine at its disposal. They can effectively come up with a point-by-point rebuttal of all these points which might look very convincing to a non-tech-savvy civil servant. However, when we talk about FREEDOM, they have no answer! Even their Head Honcho, who may be otherwise a very intelligent man, starts blabbering childishly and incoherently (words like "pacman," "un-American" etc come to mind) when confronted with the freedom argument. Without stressing on Freedom, we have very little chance. The first point of the letter should be Freedom. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 15:13:57 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Tapas Ray) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:43:57 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] MS-WB Message-ID: <006001c11f54$11ef64a0$cea9c8cb@b5m9z2> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C11F81.ADF150C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi. I'm a journalist based in Calcutta. I'd appreciate it if you could = let me know if the protest letter has been e-mailed to the WB Govt. If = so, could you copy it to me? Thanks. Tapas Ray ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C11F81.ADF150C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi. I'm a journalist based = in Calcutta.=20 I'd appreciate it if you could let me know if the protest letter has = been=20 e-mailed to the WB Govt. If so, could you copy it to me?
    Thanks.
    Tapas = Ray
    ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C11F81.ADF150C0-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 05:12:48 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:42:48 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> Khuzaima, While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. If you notice, I have tried to stay away from any of the following: - Controversial issues (e.g. MS' ongoing court case(s)) - Un-verifiable data - Philosophy - Opinions The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which cannot be debated away. Philosophy and opinions, by definition, are debatable, and I had no intention of letting anyone use one single point in the document as a lever to draw attention away from the others and make the whole exercise meaningless. Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "Khuzaima" == Khuzaima A Lakdawala writes: Khuzaima> Raju Mathur writes: >> Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State >> government which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I >> am making it as general-purpose as possible so that more people >> are willing to sign it: this is not a time for family >> squabbles. I'd appreciate any additions/enhancements which can >> be made to this letter. Khuzaima> This otherwise well-crafted draft letter is incomplete Khuzaima> if it does not mention the most important point about Khuzaima> Free Software, namely FREEDOM. After all, it is being Khuzaima> written to a democratically elected State Government and Khuzaima> the "Right to Freedom" is a fundamental right enshrined Khuzaima> in our Constitution; in particular, article 19, Freedom Khuzaima> of Speech and Expression. Khuzaima> [snip] -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 14:03:37 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 19:33:37 +0530 Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org>; from raju@linux-delhi.org on Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:42:48AM +0530 References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <20010808193337.A1855@mailandnews.com> On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:42:48AM +0530, Raju Mathur wrote: > The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which > cannot be debated away. Philosophy and opinions, by definition, are > debatable, and I had no intention of letting anyone use one single > point in the document as a lever to draw attention away from the > others and make the whole exercise meaningless. On the other hand, I feel that if we don't speak of freedom or hide it behind the other facts, the whole exercise becomes meaningless. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 15:22:41 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 20:52:41 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <1043.192.168.0.4.997284161.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> I agree with raju,and hey your arguments with Arun on various lists about GPL and BSD licenses are paying off ;-), good draft, i personally could have not done it better. cheers S.Goswami > Khuzaima, > > While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free > Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. If you > notice, I have tried to stay away from any of the following: > > - Controversial issues (e.g. MS' ongoing court case(s)) > - Un-verifiable data > - Philosophy > - Opinions > > The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which > cannot be debated away. Philosophy and opinions, by definition, are > debatable, and I had no intention of letting anyone use one single point in > the document as a lever to draw attention away from the > others and make the whole exercise meaningless. > > Regards, > > -- Raju -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 05:37:31 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:07:31 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Violation of Fundamental Rights. In-Reply-To: <3B7027AF.B836D166@eth.net> References: <3B7027AF.B836D166@eth.net> Message-ID: <20010808110731.B2124@debianut.ekmnet> [Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 11:08:55PM +0530] M Balakrishna: > Sorry for disturbing you Not at all. > Students are not informed of the fact that they require > a license from a third party to use and practice what > they are learning. They are kept in dark about this part. And also that they are indirectly made to make copies of these *proprietary* programs thereby exposing themselves to the 'information police'. They risk arrest and detention for no fault of theirs. They are led to violate laws which are of not their making ! There is a good cause of action here..... If we intend to take this to task at all, stressing on this aspect of the Syllabi; we have to frame the teachers who fix these Syllabi for our schools/colleges. The teachers who have recommended the use of these *proprietary* material have to be made answerable, they have to be literally sued in a Court of Law for their irresponsible behavior. The scope of getting this remedied is very high. The intent of these syllabus-setters can be questioned, in that they may be having a pecuniary/monetary benefit from the *non-free* software companies. The remedy lies in the recommendation of the use of *free* software which can be *legally* copied and exchanged. The use of *non-free* software in school/college syllabi should be banned by a Court of Law. Now someone has to bell the Cat ! -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 16:41:42 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:11:42 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Violation of Fundamental Rights. Message-ID: <3B716BC6.307689BE@eth.net> Dear brothers and sisters Sorry for disturbing you. Is it legitimate to teach softwares that requires a license to practice? - at least in schools. It actually violate the Fundamental Rights. Folowing are my argumnents. 1. (i) Right to freedom of speach and expression . The word "expression" is a method of communicating your feelings and thought to others. I can use a pen and paper to write this letter. I can also user a computer and printer to write this letter. These things are taught at school level. The main difference between these two methods is that the later one requires a license (if tools taught in schools are used) from somebody else - a clear cut violation of our Fundamental Rights. 2. Cultural and Educational Rights. 3. Right to Constitutional Remedies Students are not informed of the fact that they require a license from a third party to use and practice what they are learning. They are kept in dark about this part. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 18:12:10 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:42:10 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] LINK: Linux in Education mailing list... (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Want to subscribe to an Indian mailing-list focussing on Linux in Education? Please check the following instructions... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Use the following link for subscribing. ->LIFE mailing list ->LIFE@mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in ->http://mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in/mailman/listinfo/life This list is run by Prof Nagarjuna of the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research in Mumbai, India. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nagarjuna G. HBCSE, TIFR, V.N.Purav Marg, Mankhurd, Mumbai 400088 India. Phone: 5567711 Res: 2155604 nagarjun@hbcse.tifr.res.in www.hbcse.tifr.res.in ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 05:13:10 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 09 Aug 2001 10:43:10 +0530 Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Dear Raju, Raju Mathur writes: > While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free > Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. What kind of a compromise is this? We might as well shut down FSF-I then. If we are *deliberately* not going to talk about freedom, FSF-I loses it reason to exist. It just becomes an Open Source body. RMS wouldn't even have agreed to come here for its inauguration if he knew that we were going to *deliberately* omit mentioning freedom in our arguments. > The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which > cannot be debated away. How can our fundamental rights be debated away? It makes no sense! Pappu definitely hit the bull's eye when he said: On the other hand, I feel that if we don't speak of freedom or hide it behind the other facts, the whole exercise becomes meaningless. If you must go ahead with the letter as it is, *deliberately* leaving out "the most important facet of Free Software", please do, but please be kind enough to remove the terms Free Software and Electronic Freedom from its opening line to read: We, the Open Source proponents in India... It's a pity, because the letter states and explains many of the *other* benefits of Free Software so nicely and lucidly. If only it did not shy away from stating the *main point* of Free Software, it would have made a powerful letter. Best regards, Khuzaima -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 05:35:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:05:28 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Sublists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1118.192.168.0.4.997335328.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> I am one for it , provided the posting guidelines are clearly mentioned somewhere so that people know what lists they are subscribing to. S.Goswami > It seems that we need to have more sublists based on themes now > under extensive deliberation like: > > > 1. Free Software in Education > 2. Programming and technical > 3. Projects, developer coordination > 4. General (philosophy, events, licence, etc) > 5. ... > -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 05:59:18 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:29:18 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> References: <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <1170.192.168.0.4.997336758.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > Dear Raju, > > Raju Mathur writes: > >> While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free >> Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. > > What kind of a compromise is this? We might as well shut down FSF-I then. > If we are *deliberately* not going to talk about freedom, FSF-I loses it > reason to exist. It just becomes an Open Source body. RMS wouldn't even > have agreed to come here for its inauguration if he knew that we were going > to *deliberately* omit mentioning freedom in our arguments. RMS is smarter than he looks. He knows what he is doing and why he has come to India.you are over reacting to what he meant and said cool down. >> The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which >> cannot be debated away. > > How can our fundamental rights be debated away? It makes no sense! Why don't you draft one so that we can choose the best one or do some alterations to the existing one.You are Free to do that :) > Pappu definitely hit the bull's eye when he said: > > On the other hand, I feel that if we don't speak of freedom or hide > it behind the other facts, the whole exercise becomes meaningless. Nobody is trying to hide anything , its just a matter of experiece leaving in a physical as well as the virtual world that's speaking from Raju's point of view. GodDammit this guy is a pro and he makes a living out of Free Software Services.I would like you to be in his shoes for a while and imagine, that's all. > > If you must go ahead with the letter as it is, *deliberately* leaving out > "the most important facet of Free Software", please do, but please be kind > enough to remove the terms Free Software and Electronic Freedom from its > opening line to read: Why is it TM too :-) > > We, the Open Source proponents in India... > > It's a pity, because the letter states and explains many of the > *other* benefits of Free Software so nicely and lucidly. If only it did not > shy away from stating the *main point* of Free Software, it would have made > a powerful letter. cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 06:06:36 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:36:36 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <15218.10348.617799.590822@mail.linux-delhi.org> Hi Khuzaima, You are welcome to do any or all of the following: - Ignore my original posting and all follow-ups. - Shut down FSF-I - Use the letter as it is - Use the letter after modification under the terms of the GNU Documentation License - Remove or add any terms you want to the letter Please do remember, however: - You, the FSF-I, FSF and GNU are not the only proponents of Electronic Freedom in the world. Please do not try to take that mantle upon yourselves or try to shoulder that burden solo -- your shoulders will not take it. - My objective in writing the letter was to stop the alliance of MS with State Governments. If your objective is different, please write/advocate whatever you please. If you feel that the original objective can be met with a different approach, please feel free to go ahead with that. Do not confuse issues -- other people (e.g. MS executives) will be glad enough to do that for you for free. - I am not sending the letter to anyone: other people are. I feel I have done my bit with drafting it and releasing it. If you have further issues please take them up with the people who're redrafting and sending the letter. - *Really mad* If I can help stop the WB and other State Governments from tying up with MS for e-governance, I don't give a sh*t whether RMS, LT, Tom Christiansen or God Himself comes to inaugurate the FSF-I. That may have been the most important event in the lives of many people, but this is more important to me. Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "Khuzaima" == Khuzaima A Lakdawala writes: Khuzaima> Dear Raju, Raju Mathur writes: >> While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free >> Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. Khuzaima> What kind of a compromise is this? We might as well shut Khuzaima> down FSF-I then. If we are *deliberately* not going to Khuzaima> talk about freedom, FSF-I loses it reason to exist. It Khuzaima> just becomes an Open Source body. RMS wouldn't even have Khuzaima> agreed to come here for its inauguration if he knew that Khuzaima> we were going to *deliberately* omit mentioning freedom Khuzaima> in our arguments. >> The idea was to create a document which would present hard >> facts which cannot be debated away. Khuzaima> How can our fundamental rights be debated away? It makes Khuzaima> no sense! Khuzaima> Pappu definitely hit the bull's eye when he said: Khuzaima> On the other hand, I feel that if we don't speak Khuzaima> of freedom or hide it behind the other facts, the whole Khuzaima> exercise becomes meaningless. Khuzaima> If you must go ahead with the letter as it is, Khuzaima> *deliberately* leaving out "the most important facet of Khuzaima> Free Software", please do, but please be kind enough to Khuzaima> remove the terms Free Software and Electronic Freedom Khuzaima> from its opening line to read: Khuzaima> We, the Open Source proponents in India... Khuzaima> It's a pity, because the letter states and explains many Khuzaima> of the *other* benefits of Free Software so nicely and Khuzaima> lucidly. If only it did not shy away from stating the Khuzaima> *main point* of Free Software, it would have made a Khuzaima> powerful letter. Khuzaima> Best regards, Khuzaima -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 06:22:46 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:52:46 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <1170.192.168.0.4.997336758.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 at 11:29, Satyakam Goswami wrote: > What kind of a compromise is this? We might as well shut down > FSF-I then. If we are *deliberately* not going to talk about > freedom, FSF-I loses it reason to exist. It just becomes an > Open Source body. RMS wouldn't even have agreed to come here > for its inauguration if he knew that we were going to > *deliberately* omit mentioning freedom in our arguments. RMS is smarter than he looks. He knows what he is doing and why he has come to India.you are over reacting to what he meant and said cool down. It is a practical problem and let us not flame on it. I will agree with Raju on the draft letter since we are talking to the political leadership of a state government who are all well aware of the values of freedom and democracy. It might be a nice idea to add a paragraph on software freedom too which might be missing in the draft letter, but software freedom without software merits is not a convincing factor for the leadership to adopt it for governance, for, you might not have dared to send this letter five years back when this very freedom was available then too in the same magnitude and dimension as we have now. Therefore, let us make the draft letter complete with necessary addition of the paragraph(s) on freedom (Pappu, Satyakam: please contribute) and other missing/relevant philosophical issues, let us make it ready at the earliest to send it to the WB government, instead of nitpicking on a finely drafter letter which was meant for adoption/modification by a wider spectrum of software enthusiasts to suit their philosophy and subsequent despatch to the WB goverment. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 07:41:16 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satish Babu) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 00:41:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010809074116.15209.qmail@web5102.mail.yahoo.com> I agree with this suggestion. What is imperative now is to get cracking on a course of action. Let's put in what is left out in the letter ASAP and get working on talking to the WB government. Cheers Satish --- Radhakrishnan CV wrote: > Therefore, let us make the draft letter complete > with necessary > addition of the paragraph(s) on freedom (Pappu, > Satyakam: please > contribute) and other missing/relevant philosophical > issues, let us > make it ready at the earliest to send it to the WB > government, > instead of nitpicking on a finely drafter letter > which was meant for > adoption/modification by a wider spectrum of > software enthusiasts > to suit their philosophy and subsequent despatch to > the WB > goverment. > > > -- > Radhakrishnan > > _______________________________________________ > http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 08:37:03 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 09 Aug 2001 14:07:03 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Our debate In-Reply-To: <15218.10348.617799.590822@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15218.10348.617799.590822@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <86elql634g.fsf_-_@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raju Mathur writes: > - *Really mad* If I can help stop the WB and other State Governments > from tying up with MS for e-governance, I don't give a sh*t whether > RMS, LT, Tom Christiansen or God Himself comes to inaugurate the > FSF-I. That may have been the most important event in the lives of > many people, but this is more important to me. Dear Raju, My apologies for having generated such bitterness. We were having a debate and a debate need not end on such a bitter note. I do not wish to take away any credit from you for having drafted the original letter and I am sure the final letter will owe a lot to you. Best regards, Khuzaima -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 09:29:24 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 14:59:24 +0530 Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: ; from cvr@river-valley.org on Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:52:46AM +0530 References: <1170.192.168.0.4.997336758.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: <20010809145924.A11542@mailandnews.com> On Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:52:46AM +0530, Radhakrishnan CV wrote: > > It is a practical problem and let us not flame on it. I will agree > with Raju on the draft letter since we are talking to the political > leadership of a state government who are all well aware of the > values of freedom and democracy. May be. But by planning to use non free software, they don't prove their awareness. Or may be, they don't know much about the freedom (or lack of freedom) when it comes to software. If this is the case, freedom is what we should talk of. Technical merrits of free software can always be easily debated (non free world has some of the best lawyers trained to do just that). We can always talk of 60% (?) websites in the world running on apache and all such statistics, but people are ready with other statistics to counter this. > > It might be a nice idea to add a paragraph on software freedom too > which might be missing in the draft letter, Please don't reduce it to just another paragraph. > but software freedom > without software merits is not a convincing factor for the > leadership to adopt it for governance, I feel that we should demand freedom, and just show the government that ree alternatives exist. It is the duty of the government to verify the technical merrits (we can help). If they think that free software can't be used, then we should demand (as citizens of India) to delay this e-governance stuff until they feel otherwise. The government has no right to impose non free stuff on us. In summary, we should demand that the government use free software, just for the sake of freedom. If they need help in verifying the technical merrits of free software, it should be provided. But these should not be (and cannot be IMHO) used as reasons for using free software. The reason is always FREEDOM. > for, you might not have dared > to send this letter five years back when this very freedom was > available then too in the same magnitude and dimension as we have > now. If e-governance is not possible with free software, it should not be implemented. > Therefore, let us make the draft letter complete with necessary > addition of the paragraph(s) on freedom And removal of terms like open source.. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 10:44:12 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:14:12 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <20010809145924.A11542@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Pappu wrote: > The government has no right to impose non free stuff on us. ...... > we should demand that the government use free software, just for > the sake of freedom. ....... > If e-governance is not possible with free software, it should not > be implemented. ..... While we all feel strongly about the Free Software philosophy, taking such fundamentalist positions has a chance to do more harm that good. Pappu, Can you come up with a text to be included in Raju's letter about freedom? > And removal of terms like open source.. When the term Open Source is included it actually does imply that Free Software movement and Open Source movement are similar but different. So why remove it. FSF should always co-operate with other like minded orgs where ever possible with out loosing its individuality. That will only do good to the goals of FSF. raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 13:31:25 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 19:01:25 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: Message-ID: <3B7290AD.E3518184@ti.com> "Rajkumar S." wrote: > > While we all feel strongly about the Free Software philosophy, taking > such fundamentalist positions has a chance to do more harm that good. RMS achieved his goal, without compromising his fundamentalistic position. Imagine what would have happened if he had compromised his philosophy at any point of time in the last 18 years? > FSF should always co-operate with other like minded orgs where ever > possible with out loosing its individuality. That will only do good to > the goals of FSF. Could you please elaborate how FSF should co-operate with other like minded orgs without loosing it's individuality? By being a signatory of a letter which doesn't mention about Freedom? -- Ramakrishnan M World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 14:38:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Geoffrey Williams) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 07:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] MSFT and e-governance In-Reply-To: <3B7290AD.E3518184@ti.com> Message-ID: <20010809143806.29744.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Even more significant than a one-off with West Bengal... PwC, Microsoft to organise roadshows on e-governance Kolkata, August 08, 2001 In what appears to be first of its kind, PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) and Microsoft Corp (India) Pvt Ltd have decided to organise jointly roadshows on e-governance in Indian cities. http://www.zdnetindia.com/news/national/stories/35034.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 16:49:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 22:19:06 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] One more template letter to the Govt Message-ID: Hi all, I am attaching one more letter which was drafted quite some time back for the Govt of Kerala by the then Trivandrum "Linux" user group. I guess it has some important points we can add to the Raju's letter. Please understand that this is quite old letter and some facts may be outdated. raj \documentclass[a4paper,12pt]{article} \usepackage{hyperref} %\usepackage{garamond} \begin{document} \section{TODO ( not in the order of importance)} \begin{enumerate} \item Support options \item Training \item A profile about the business practices of Bill Gates and MS \end {enumerate} \section{Introduction} On 8th June there was a news item in the press stating, as part of computerisation in different institutions under the Govt of Kerala, the Public sector undertaking C-DIT had made contract with the Microsoft Corp India Ltd. It will be a huge project involving large amount of money and having long term effects. In fact the project can be implemented with lesser cost using a technologically superior product named Linux. Linux is an operating system that was initially created as a hobby by a young student, Linus Torvalds, at the University of Helsinki in Finland. Linux is often considered an excellent, low-cost alternative to other more expensive operating systems. In addition to being cost-effective, it is constantly being updated and refined with the latest technologies. As Linux gains greater acceptance throughout the computing industry, more and more companies are supporting Linux via both application and hardware compatibility. \section{Technical Superiority} The days of ``one size fit all'' are gone. IS mgrs should choose the right tools to do the right job. So all the platforms should be able to interact with each other seamlessly and there is not a single platform including Linux that is the right solution. None other than Microsoft knows this better. Since they are using Apache (The most popular web server in the world) to power Hotmail, Microsoft's online portal. This is a transcript of a web client with the Hotmail server which proves the point. \begin {verbatim} HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:50:58 GMT Server: Apache/1.3.6 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.8 SSLeay/0.9.0b Cache-Control: no-cache Expires: Mon, 01 Jan 1999 00:00:00 GMT Pragma: no-cache Connection: close Content-Type: text/html Hotmail - The World's FREE Web-based Email \end{verbatim} Three main char that a business OS should have are \begin{itemize} \item stability \item security \item support \end{itemize} \subsection{Stability} Unices has been around for more than 3 decades and is widely field tested. Linux boxes have reported uptimes in years \footnote{(any egs/citations? } and are very mature. Linux do not belive in the policy of ``Put out bad SW, Have users sufer, make them pay for support''. Linux software, due to the open nature under go extensive peer review and beta testing so that chances of bug is limited. Once any bugs are found the chances are that they are fixed faster than a similar bug in a proprietary software. \subsection{Completeness} Linux is almost a complete out-of-the box solution. with almost all the tools you need to do most of your requirments from Internet and Intranet to mail to File Server. Due to its ability to emulate a Unix machine or a Windows NT or Netware machine Linux is the ideal file server. Using the Samba \url{http://www.samba.org} Service Linux can mimic as a NT server. Users will still be connected to an NT server except that NT magically performs faster with no blue-screen of death. \subsection{Hardware requirement} Linux can run on ridiculously low end hardware. So this would not require the Govt. to ``junk'' the costly hardware every few months to install the upgraded software. \footnote{(We can put in the min HW requirement of Linux/NT for some common applications. Also we can trace the increse in the HW requirement for NT over the versions) } Another important fallout of this is that Linux will beat many of the OS on identical HW by margins that no longer seems funny. \section{Social and Economic Factors}\footnote{or a better title} Linux is a completely free reimplementation of the POSIX specification, with SYSV and BSD extensions (which means it looks like Unix, but does not come from the same source code base), which is available in both source code and binary form. Its copyright is owned by Linus Torvalds, \url{torvalds@transmeta.com} and other contributors, and is freely redistributable under the terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL). A copy of the GPL is included with the Linux source; you can also get a copy from \url{ftp://prep.ai.mit.edu/pub/gnu/COPYING} \subsection{Meaning of FREE software} Linux is not public domain, nor is it ``shareware''. It is ``free'' software, commonly called freeware, and you may give away or sell copies, but you must include the source code or make it available in the same way as any binaries you give or sell. If you distribute any modifications, you are legally bound to distribute the source for those modifications. See the GNU General Public License for details. Linux is still free as of version 2.0, and will continue to be free. Because of the nature of the GPL to which Linux is subject, it would be illegal for it to be made not free. Note carefully: the ``free'' part involves access to the source code rather than money; it is perfectly legal to charge money for distributing Linux, so long as you also distribute the source code. Their are many implications for the access to the source code. These do not matter much for an individual but when a government is using this it assumes serious proportions. \footnote{Can some one write a para about this} \subsection{ Perils of Monopoly} The main revenue source of many companies are the corporate and govt institutions which buys software in large quantities. Business savvy companies will first give away software in a reduced or in a subsidized rate. They are doing this in order to entice the clients in to their net. Buying software is not like buying any other product. It involves along with lot of money a larger investment in the form of training and other custom made software. So once the govt decides on the core OS for the computerization program it cannot change it let us say after 5 or 10 years. At this point we will get to see the real face of the software company. It will then start to act as a typical monopoly since it is very sure that we do not have any other option other than to succumb to its commands. It starts to ask for exorbitant prices for the software upgrades. It will force us to use its other software by changing the protocols of its servers. Microsoft is particularly notorious in this regard. They are known to use their monopoly in one field of computer industry to kill the competition in the other field. An anti trust case is already going on in this regard in the US courts and MS was ordered to pay a huge amount of money to Netscape communications as damages it faced due to the illegal and monopolistic trade practices of Microsoft. \subsection{Catch them early} One of the highlites of the contract with the Microsoft is their offer for training of the faculty of the colleges. Although this may be seen as some thing very useful for us we should be aware of the hidden danger of behind this. The people whom the MS is going to train are the people who are going to mould the future of this country. So if they can be brain washed into the MS fold then half the battle of MS will be won. All the professors and lectures of this state will have their minds clogged with the MS propaganda. This will ensure that the generations of students who are going to pass out of our institutions will not be able to see any thing beyond Microsoft. Such a situation has the potential of propelling us back to old colonialism in the information age. Linux has support for all the computer languages that one can think about and more. In a situation where we could not satisfy basic needs in most of our schools how can we justify spending large sum for the latest hardware so that Windows 98 will run. The ``outdated'' computer is a computer which became outdated since the most of the main stream software like Windows 98 are not working on them. Even then it is power full enough to satisfy the computing needs in college and schools. The MS products are designed such that that user will be unaware of most of the inner working of the system. This will be helpful for a casual user but Students must have this knowledge. Other wise we will be creating users for MS products. In schools and colleges in some western countries even students works as system administrators under linux( see LG 32). What about our students are they not brilliant ? \subsection{Adherence to open standards} Internet is used by everybody in the world, using many different products. For these products to interact Internet community has produced some standards. With the help of these open standards (ie any one can get a copy of these stds) any product from any company can interact with any other product from any other company. This is very much like the socket and plug. We are having an open standard in this. Now consider the case of a very big company which makes all electric accessories and sockets. Its sockets are much cheaper to buy but you cannot put any other companies instruments in that socket. Would you buy this socket when you build your home ? No since if you buy this then forever you are bound to the socket producing company. This is same situation faced by the Internet community also. Microsoft is one of the company which is secretly sabotaging the openness of the Internet community. \footnote{See the the Halloween documents at \url{http://www.opensource.org/halloween}} The rise of the Internet has been both a threat to Microsoft's empire and an opportunity to expand it to a degree impossible before. With various forecasters expecting between \$80 and \$160 billion in electronic commerce by the year 2000, the Internet had become the decisive realm of computer competition for the future.\footnote{``In search of the perfect market'' The Economist. May 10, 1997.} The threat of the Internet was obvious: with a twenty-year tradition of open computing standards connecting computers of all kinds, the Internet looked ready to make proprietary operating systems for individual machines an anachronism. The first action by MS to capture internet and the open world was the creation of proprietary MS -online which failed miserably. Then came the browser war. The browser is the main tool used for communicating information on internet. Through its dominance in the desktop computers it tried to destroy the competitors like netscape in creating browsers. And thus it hoped to control the internet and by using its very deep pockets it was able to succeed to a limited extent. Microsoft follows the policy of embrace and kill. It adopts an open standard then brings a propriety extension to the std and comes out with the clients that can understand this. This will lock out others from the service provided by the MS servers and they will be forced to buy the MS products which will be sold at high price. \subsection{Training and Education } In the networked world of computing the trained professionals are prime requirement for the success of a Software. India is traditionally known as a UNIX country. All our major educational institutions will include atlest a single module on UNIX. Any person who knows how to work under Unix can migrate to Linux with just few days working knowledge. Linux complies to Unix standards. Self training is also possible since most of the required information are available with the package itself. Help is available in plenty from global Linux community through Internet. As the Internet becoming more popular this will be interesting and informative than conventional methods. Linux complies to all the relevent open standards. Since you are working with only the products using open standards it will be easy to migrate from Linux to all the systems which adhere to these standards. Even MS uses these standards but as the part of their strategy they will ``embrace and extend'' it to make it their own. \subsection{Archival of old Information} With the advent of computerisation and paperless office one inportant issue people tend to overlook is the archival of old information. Today we will be able to obtain a copy of any government document which was brought out let us say 50 years back, and this will remain so for future also. Once we achive full computerisation we will not have any paper document as paper is not the best mediun for storing data and also people will tend to ignore the printouts as they can always be genarated. So the original source document becomes very important, and it has to be stored very carefully. Consider a sample document, the Kerala budjet, it will invariably be type set in some wordprocessor like say MS Word. We will think that we can copy it in some tape or write the file in some CD. With this the document will be safe for let us say 2 years, since new versons of software always comes out and it may introduce some new file format which is incompatable with the old budget which we have written in CD. So we may write the software also in the CD, in that case the the document will be safe for another 5 more years. New and new changes happens in the OS market and no one can be sure of the fact that OS after 5 years will be able to run the software which we have written in the CD. So we may think to write the OS also but by now you may have got a feeling that this is not the solution. The solution is again to go back to the open standards. All the problems in the above para occur due to the fact that the file format of the software is propriety. That is the reason why that particular program was needed to read that file. If \section{Economic viability} \subsection{Requirments of an Operating System} \begin{itemize} \item File \& print \item Application Server \item E-Mail \item Internet Access \item Intranet Services \end{itemize} Linux can be configured to provide all the above on the single server. NT would require 3 separate dedicated servers for e-mail,RDBMS and File \& print and Intanet Linux comes bundled with all the software needed for all these NT requires separate products to provide e-mail \& Internet access(Exchange and IIS ). File and print is provided with base OS. Linux can be customized to the needs of the user. \footnote{ The price comparison is given on page 94 of the march 99 PCQ ( the same one which carried the 5.2 CD-ROM)} \section{Successful Linux Installations in India and around the world} ToDo \end{document} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 17:03:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 22:33:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: References: <20010809145924.A11542@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: <20010809223358.A1534@debianut.ekmnet> [Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 04:14:12PM +0530] Rajkumar S. : > taking such fundamentalist positions has a chance > to do more harm that good. Yours is a naive stand which is not going to do us any good. Can you ever think of winning the battle without the *freedom* shield, forget about winning the war ? We are going to stress more on the Freedom aspect in the letter we are going to send to the West Bengal Govt. We are going to articulate the position espoused by Pappu/Khuzaima and of Raju's well trashed out technical aspects. Khuzaima and Pappu have debated out the basic and ethical stand of the GNU, the positions for which RMS has stood for and shown us. This fundamentalist position has a chance to do us more good in the long run and is going to win us the war..... > Can you come up with a text to be included in Raju's > letter about freedom ? Maybe you should also chip in and get the letter out fast. We have to get our act together, before these M$ guys take out the Bengalee sahibs out for a treat at the Presidency ;-) Can we ever hope to match these M$ guys in their PR work ? So, Raju's letter would be about *freedom* and the technical superiority model brought about by its open-ness. > When the term Open Source is included it actually does > imply that Free Software movement and Open Source > movement are similar but different Can you say what the Open Source movement stand for ? No goal, "shunyam". These Open source guys have already started groping in the dark, not knowing what to say in reply to M$ attack on the GPL. We shall in no way include the word 'Open Source' in our letter. Please understand that the M$ guys are going/have already prepared to attack the GNU and the GNU GPL in the corridors of the Bengal Vidhan Sabha. The Open Source guys have got no 'arm-parts' to be trampled on.....we in the *free software* movement are going to be hurt more :( > So why remove it It has to be removed. The Free Software movement is different and we have to make this very clear. We shall not lend our signatures to a document/petition which includes the word 'Open Source'. > FSF should always co-operate with other like minded orgs > where ever possible with out loosing its individuality. The FSF should do things individualistic-ally; if the Open Source guys come around wanting to co-operate with us...good. All of us walk the last mile together....Freedom First ! -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 18:01:32 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:31:32 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <20010809223358.A1534@debianut.ekmnet> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Raghavendra Bhat wrote: > Yours is a naive stand which is not going to do us any good. Can > you ever think of winning the battle without the *freedom* shield, > forget about winning the war ? I was just referring to some statements by pappu which I quoted, not against the freedom. Sorry if my mail caused confusion. > This fundamentalist position has a chance to do us more good in > the long run and is going to win us the war..... The stance of FSF is not fundamentalist, it is ethical. but if we take any ethical stance too far it becomes fundamentalist and that has to be checked. > Maybe you should also chip in and get the letter out fast. We have > to get our act together I have mailed one letter which has touched some of the points which were missing from Raju's letter like the open standards, meaning of Free, Perils of a Monopoly etc. I will add more. > We shall not lend our signatures to a document/petition which > includes the word 'Open Source'. > The FSF should do things individualistic-ally; I do not know if such a position is good for us. May be it is..... raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 19:03:27 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Hannu Puttonen) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 22:03:27 +0300 (EEST) Subject: [FSF India] Gnu/Linux film Message-ID: Hi. I´m Hannu Puttonen, a Finnish film director and writer from Helsinki. I have just completed a one hour long documentary film on Gnu/Linux, open source & free software movement. It is called The Code and includes Linus Torvalds, Richard Stallman, Eric Raymond, Alan Cox, Jon 'maddog' Hall, Miguel de Icaza, Alan Cox, Theodore Ts´o, David S. Miller, Andrew Leonard, Robert 'Bob' Young, Larry Augustin and Eric Allman, to mention a few. It´s about the time to show the film for the world, and that is why I send this e-mail. I´ve been in contact with Sarai (Jeebesh Bagchi jeebech@sarai.net), and they are keen on to arrange a few screenings in India for the audiences interested in the topic in question. I can take different formats of the film on video (PAL). VHS and mini-DV anyway. Betacam SP too, if needed. On 17th of September it will be the 10th anniversary of the moment, when Linus Torvalds put his Linux 0.01 -version of the kernel code on Internet from his tiny flat in Helsinki, Finland. I´d like "the world premiere" to be on that day. But not necessarily in my home country, because in a small country (only 5,1 million people in the fifth largest country in Europe) the few local, internationally known celebrities are over-exposed out of all proportions in the media. So has happened with both mr. Torvalds and Gnu/Linux. It is already a known fact, that the real change and possible revolution in terms of Gnu/Linux and the whole free software/open source will happen in the countries like India. The whole IT culture and business in your country looks very interesting from a Finnish point of view (there was a documentary about it on our tv a week ago). So, after completing this film, I´d still like to learn something new about the phenomenon called free software, before starting a new film on something totally different subject matter. So, we are trying to arrange at least that one screening with Sarai in Delhi on 17th of September. The other possible screenings could take place during the same week. My travel expenses will be covered from Finland and back, and I don´t need any fee, but a local accommodation would be fine. Mail me or call me, if you have an interest to arrange for the local people in India an opportunity to see the documentary before anyone else. Yours, Hannu Puttonen Director, writer Bulevardi 34B a6 FIN-00120 Helsinki E-mail: puttonen@kaapeli.fi Mobile: +358-(0)40-558 3086 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 20:24:44 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:54:44 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Modified letter to the Govt. Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ---1463810806-2078030940-997388684=:7561 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all, I have made some modification to Raju's letter. Kindly read them and send your comments. i have the full letter and attaching a diff with the old to see the difference. raj We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom proponents in India are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans to base your complete e-governance infrastructure on a single foreign company's products. The history of Microsoft has shown that it has very little regard for serving any objectives except its own, which does not augur well for the future of in particular and our country in general. We request you to kindly consider the following points before making this relationship permanent: 1. Security. Microsoft products have time and again demonstrated a regrettable lack of basic security features. Recent incidents which have affected a sizeable portion of Microsoft-based servers and client systems on the Internet have served to highlight the fact that Microsoft makes Insecure Products. The Code Red worm (computer virus) infected millions of servers on the Internet in June and August 2001 and coordinated them (without their administrators consent) to simultaneously attack the US White House web site. The affected servers include that of hotmail.com which is owned by Microsoft itself. The worm is still alive though dormant and no one knows exactly where and when it will strike again. Needless to say, this worm only affects computers running Microsoft's most popular web server. The SIRCAM virus which replicates itself using e-mail as the medium has been deemed such a major threat to computing infrastructure that Microsoft and the FBI have taken the unprecedented step of releasing a joint warning notice against it to all computer users in July 2001. Again, the SIRCAM virus only affects e-mail users who use Microsoft's products -- all other software is immune to this threat. These are but two symptoms of the general malaise that Microsoft's products suffer from. Each time a product is fixed using patches from Microsoft, new security holes in the product are uncovered, leading to another wave of infection. In fact, there have been cases of a problem fix from Microsoft uncovering older (previously-fixed) problems and making them active again; there are no signs that these issues will ever be completely resolved. Note to Raju: Can you give a link to the exact incident? 2. Total cost of ownership (TCO) The Total Cost of Ownership of Microsoft's products is much higher than that of other, equivalent, better technologies. Microsoft is already making moves to make licensing valid for only 3 years, so that one has to pay them again at the end of 3 years. This will also make sure that you cannot keep using the old software, but rather be forced to upgrade. Both hardware and software, as the newer software will not run on the old hardware, even if you do want to. This will place an additional burden to cash strapped Govts and more still to schools. In addition hardware requirements for running Microsoft are substantially higher than those of competing products from other sources. In many cases a computer running a competing product will cost half of and handle ten times the load that a computer configuration running Microsoft products would. 3. Internal security Microsoft is a company owned by American citizens, having its base of operations in the USA and subject to US laws. A clear effect of this was evidenced in 1999 when it was discovered that some of the security and cryptography functions built into Microsoft's operating systems were subject to be used by the US National Security Agency (NSA) without explicit permission from either Microsoft or the user of the software. This is one lone ``feature'' of Microsoft software which came to light due to the vigilance of a concerned individual. However it is quite possible (indeed, likely) that there are other ways in which Microsoft products are designed and constructed to permit illegal access by US security agencies. As concerned Indians, we would wish to be secure in the knowledge that the software handling our critical information about Government and individuals will not permit foreign Governments to spy upon, or, even worse, arbitrarily modify it without the consent or knowledge of our elected representatives and the Government machine. This problem is going to increase when the Windows XP comes out. All XP machines will have to be registered online with the Microsoft, and each machine sends data about itself to MS Hq in US. This will enable MS to keep track of the machines that are owned by the Govt. 4. Flexibility India being a unique country it is very likely that we will wish to adapt the software managing our Government information flows to our specific requirements from time to time. With Microsoft products it will not be possible to do this in any sort of time-bound manner, if it is possible at all. For instance, we may want to create cheap Intel 486-based computers for members of the bureaucracy which they can use to access their e-mail. Building such a low-cost computer with Microsoft software would be impossible since the building blocks of the software (the ``source code'', which is the blueprint for the software) is only available with Microsoft. As users, we will not be able to customise and modify the software to our requirements. To take another example, Microsoft is subject to US Government rules which prohibit the export of some forms of strong data encryption and decryption (scrambling and descrambling) technologies to India except under special conditions. As long as we are using Microsoft products, these technologies will not be available to us and we will be forced to use sub-standard, easily breakable techniques to protect our critical data. This is also the case with multi lingual computing. If the Microsoft do not see enough market potential for the language, They will not bother to create a version for that language. Since the source code is closed no one other than Microsoft will be able to add the necessary support. Perils of Monopoly The main revenue source of many companies are the corporate and govt institutions which buys software in large quantities. Business savvy companies will first give away software in a reduced or in a subsidized rate. They are doing this in order to entice the clients in to their net. Buying software is not like buying any other product. It involves along with lot of money a larger investment in the form of training and other custom made software. So once the govt decides on the core OS for the computerization program it cannot change it let us say after 5 or 10 years. At this point we will get to see the real face of the software company. It will then start to act as a typical monopoly since it is very sure that we do not have any other option other than to succumb to its commands. It starts to ask for exorbitant prices for the software upgrades. It will force us to use its other software by changing the protocols of its servers. Microsoft is particularly notorious in this regard. They are known to use their monopoly in one field of computer industry to kill the competition in the other field. An anti trust case is already going on in this regard in the US courts and MS was ordered to pay a huge amount of money to Netscape communications as damages it faced due to the illegal and monopolistic trade practices of Microsoft. Adherence to open standards Internet is used by everybody in the world, using many different products. For these products to interact Internet community has produced some standards. With the help of these open standards (ie any one can get a copy of these stds) any product from any company can interact with any other product from any other company. This is very much like the socket and plug. We are having an open standard in this. Now consider the case of a very big company which makes all electric accessories and sockets. Its sockets are much cheaper to buy but you cannot put any other companies instruments in that socket. Would you buy this socket when you build your home ? No since if you buy this then forever you are bound to buying equipments from the socket producing company. This is same situation faced by the Internet community also. Microsoft is one of the company which is secretly sabotaging the openness of the Internet community. See the the Halloween documents at http://www.opensource.org/halloween. In fact this was evident when they build the UK government's web site. All other browsers except the latest Internet Explorer were locked out from the site. See http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/19239.html for more information. 5. Alternatives Given these facts, we strongly urge you to consider alternative technologies and sources for software for mission- and government-critical functions like State e-governance. The GNU/Linux operating system (sometimes also called just ``Linux'') suffers from none of the defects of Microsoft operating systems and applications detailed above and is already the fastest-growing server operating system in the world today. Linux kernel is a completely Free re-implementation of the POSIX specification, with SYSV and BSD extensions (which means it looks like Unix, but does not come from the same source code base), which is available in both source code and binary form. Its copyright is owned by Linus Torvalds, \url{torvalds@transmeta.com} and other contributors, and is freely redistributable under the terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL). A copy of the GPL is included with the GNU/Linux source; you can also get a copy from \url{ftp://prep.ai.mit.edu/pub/gnu/COPYING} 5.1 Meaning of FREE software GNU/Linux is not public domain, nor is it ``shareware''. It is ``free'' software, and you may give away or sell copies, but you must include the source code or make it available in the same way as any binaries you give or sell. If you distribute any modifications, you are legally bound to distribute the source for those modifications. See the GNU General Public License for details. GNU/Linux is still free as of version 2.4, and will continue to be free. Because of the nature of the GPL to which GNU/Linux is subject, it would be illegal for it to be made not free. Note carefully: the ``free'' part involves access to the source code rather than money; it is perfectly legal to charge money for distributing GNU/Linux, so long as you also distribute the source code. Their are many implications for this free access to the source code. These do not matter much for an individual but when a government is using this it assumes serious proportions. ****More needs to come here.**** Some of the features of GNU/Linux which make it a viable and desirable component of any Government infrastructure are: - GNU/Linux has not to date been subject to any virus attacks anywhere near the severity of the worms and virii which are infecting Microsoft systems on a nearly daily basis. - The operating system itself and all the applications required to build a safe, secure and efficient infrastructure are available free of cost and can even be downloaded from the Internet. The hardware configuration of systems required to run GNU/Linux is much lower than that of corresponding systems required to run Microsoft products. There is no fee at all -- neither one-time nor recurring -- for using GNU/Linux. - The source code for the operating system and applications is available for perusal and modification. Using GNU/Linux, the Government can be assured that there are they are not at the mercy of any foreign government which can arm-twist Microsoft into putting hidden back-doors into their products. The Government can also give this assurance to the electorate. - Since the source code (i.e. the building blocks) of GNU/Linux is Freely available, the Government can, if it so chooses, modify, extend and customise the software for its specific requirements. For instance, it is quite feasible to replace existing encryption techniques in GNU/Linux with those certified by the DRDO, leading to much better and auditable levels of security. Such enhancements are not possible with Microsoft software. - Many national governments have blacklisted Microsoft products and specifically selected GNU/Linux to host applications managing and monitoring State and Central functions. We request you to critically consider any decision to purchase Microsoft products in the light of the information given above, and to give serious consideration to using alternative technologies which have a much lower cost, are more reliable and secure, and can be easily enhanced to fit in with our national objectives. ---1463810806-2078030940-997388684=:7561 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name=diff Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=diff MjFjMjENCjwgSW50ZXJuZXQgaW4gSnVuZSBhbmQgQXVndXN0IDIwMDEgYW5k IGNvb3JkaW5hdGVkIHRoZW0gKHdpdGhvdXQgdGhlaXINCi0tLQ0KPiBJbnRl cm5ldCBpbiBKdW5lIDIwMDEgYW5kIGNvb3JkaW5hdGVkIHRoZW0gKHdpdGhv dXQgdGhlaXINCjIzLDI3YzIzLDMyDQo8IHdlYiBzaXRlLiBUaGUgYWZmZWN0 ZWQgc2VydmVycyBpbmNsdWRlIHRoYXQgb2YgaG90bWFpbC5jb20gd2hpY2gg aXMNCjwgb3duZWQgYnkgTWljcm9zb2Z0IGl0c2VsZi4gVGhlIHdvcm0gaXMg c3RpbGwgYWxpdmUgdGhvdWdoIGRvcm1hbnQgYW5kDQo8IG5vIG9uZSBrbm93 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IHNlY3VyaXR5LiAgU3VjaCBlbmhhbmNlbWVudGUgYXJlDQo= ---1463810806-2078030940-997388684=:7561-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 23:22:18 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 04:52:18 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: References: <20010809223358.A1534@debianut.ekmnet> Message-ID: <20010810045218.A954@debianut.ekmnet> [Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:31:32PM +0530] Rajkumar S. : > but if we take any ethical stance too far it becomes > fundamentalist and that has to be checked. The ethical bedrock anchors our foundation and we can never dilute it for your/xyz's liking. So your suggestion of a check on this is downright flawed. -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 07:18:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Prakash Advani) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:48:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [LIG] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <01080612485801.00795@krishna> Dear Raju, This is execellent if everyone can send out this document to their respective state goverments. I hope modifications to the documents are allowed and encouraged GPL ? ;-) I would also recommend you add something about localisation issues. In case of Proprietory operating systems localisation is decided by the company only if they see $$$$ coming in not in the interest of the people. Where as in case of GNU/Linux anyone can add the Indian Language layer depending on the needs. In fact all the localisation efforts so far have been started with Goverments funds (CDAC/NCST). By putting their efforts GNU/Linux they funds would be better utilised. Regards Prakash On Sunday 05 August 2001 12:23, Raju Mathur wrote: > Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State government > which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I am making it as > general-purpose as possible so that more people are willing to sign > it: this is not a time for family squabbles. I'd appreciate any > additions/enhancements which can be made to this letter. URL's > highlighting the points discussed would also be a great idea. Not > being an activist, I cannot suggest the proper methods for getting > this letter signed and circulated to the right authorities. > _______________________________________________ Linux-india-general mailing list Linux-india-general@lists.sourceforge.net http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-india-general From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 02:41:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:11:08 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] One more template letter to the Govt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15219.18884.181097.46116@mail.linux-delhi.org> Hi Rajkumar, Great document. I specially liked the parts about incompatible standards and document archiving, and in retrospect wish I'd included those in my original document :-) Can still do so if enough people feel that they're relevant (at the risk of raising some more hackles among the community and blood pressure at my end ;-) Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "Rajkumar" == Rajkumar S writes: Rajkumar> Hi all, I am attaching one more letter which was drafted Rajkumar> quite some time back for the Govt of Kerala by the then Rajkumar> Trivandrum "Linux" user group. I guess it has some Rajkumar> important points we can add to the Raju's letter. Rajkumar> Please understand that this is quite old letter and some Rajkumar> facts may be outdated. Rajkumar> raj Rajkumar> \documentclass[a4paper,12pt]{article} Rajkumar> \usepackage{hyperref} %\usepackage{garamond} Rajkumar> \begin{document} Rajkumar> \section{TODO ( not in the order of importance)} Rajkumar> \begin{enumerate} \item Support options \item Training Rajkumar> \item A profile about the business practices of Bill Rajkumar> Gates and MS \end {enumerate} Rajkumar> \section{Introduction} On 8th June there was a news item Rajkumar> in the press stating, as part of computerisation in Rajkumar> different institutions under the Govt of Kerala, the Rajkumar> Public sector undertaking C-DIT had made contract with Rajkumar> the Microsoft Corp India Ltd. It will be a huge project Rajkumar> involving large amount of money and having long term Rajkumar> effects. In fact the project can be implemented with Rajkumar> lesser cost using a technologically superior product Rajkumar> named Linux. Rajkumar> [snip] -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 03:57:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 10 Aug 2001 09:27:08 +0530 Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <863d70va7f.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Hi, There were other things which I wanted to say before I lost my balance yesterday. Please bear with me: > The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which > cannot be debated away. I think I mentioned in an earlier post about the well-oiled and efficient marketing machine at MS's disposal. They employ some of the best (albeit, misguided) brains in the business whose *full time* job is to debate these "hard facts" about security, flexibility, total cost etc. It is a well-known fact, even more well-known in OUR community, that Microsoft reached where it did not because of any technical merit but entirely on its marketing merits. They will depute their best marketing guys to refute all these hard facts and convince the civil servants (or even ministers) that their product is in fact better! Don't expect the poor civil servant to differentiate fact from FUD. Microsoft is the *MASTER* of these techniques. We *cannot* beat them at their own game. Organisations having far more resources then us, and having far superior products then Microsoft's, have tried this game and failed. Just stressing on GNU/Linux's technical superiority, flexibility, security etc is not only insufficient, but *futile*! If, at this late stage when the WB Government has apparently already decided to go ahead with its tie-up with MS, we cannot convince them *solely* on the basis of the *philosophy* of Free Software, on the basis of *Freedom*, then let it be so. One state lost to MS, one battle lost. But let us not fall into this trap of discussing only the "hard facts". If tomorrow, another state decides to tie up with, say, Adobe or Oracle, are we going to write up another document describing all the "technical demerits" of their software vis-a-vis Free Software alternatives? You see the futility of this approach? You see how "knee-jerk" it is? It will simply constantly keep us on our toes without achieving anything. It will magnify every small battle into a large unfightable one. I would like to address all the "practical" folks out there. The only practical approach to fighting proprietary software is the one based on *freedom*. You don't even have to be an "idealist" to appreciate this. It is so obvious! Instead of expending our energies writing individual anti-MS, anti-Adobe, anti-Oracle etc. letters of questionable value, let us endeavour to write one generic anti-proprietary-software letter addressed to Governments, describing all the ills of proprietary software and all the benefits (in their entirety) of Free Software. Let us not wait till another State Government decides to tie up with another proprietary software company before we send this letter. Let us draft it and send it now! Most of the material required for such a letter can be easily gleaned from the FSF web site. - Khuzaima Raju Mathur writes: > Khuzaima, > > While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free > Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. If you > notice, I have tried to stay away from any of the following: > > - Controversial issues (e.g. MS' ongoing court case(s)) > - Un-verifiable data > - Philosophy > - Opinions > > The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which > cannot be debated away. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 05:09:09 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:39:09 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <863d70va7f.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: On 10 Aug 2001, Khuzaima A. Lakdawala wrote: > letters of questionable value, let us endeavour to write one > generic anti-proprietary-software letter Can you write that and send the draft to the list raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 05:11:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 10 Aug 2001 10:41:52 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Modified letter to the Govt. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86ofpo7b3b.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> > The history of Microsoft has shown that it has > very little regard for serving any objectives except its own That is the history of most multinational corporations. This is a "virtue" of global capitalism. This is far beyond the ambit of the Free Software movement. The above may be changed to: The history of Microsoft has shown that it has nothing but contempt for its users' rights. By going ahead with your tie-up and subsequently accepting Microsoft's licensing agreement, you will be surrendering some of the rights which are otherwise guaranteed to us by our Constitution. Considering that it is the Governments *duty* to protect the constitutional rights of its citizens, it is unthinkable that the Government *itself* would surrender some of these rights to a foreign corporation. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 05:13:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:43:56 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] Mark Summerfield : A Letter From 2020 Message-ID: Letter from 2020 By Mark Summerfield 9/18/00 Dear Me, I'm not sure if reading this letter is illegal. I thought it only fair to warn you; it might be better to just destroy it. The actual writing has been a bit of a chore. Word.NET isn't what it used to be. Even Microsoft.NET couldn't afford to patent everything, so whilst I can do Find, there's no Replace anymore. One good thing about having only one legal operating system is that it's very stable. I'm glad they never update Windows.NET; anyone can live with three or four crashes a day and the hourly rent is less than I pay for my apartment. I try to remember what it was like when I was a kid but it's really difficult; the world has changed so much since then. I found a paper book the other day that described the rise and fall of something called the "Internet". It started out with people putting up links on computers so that they could follow the link and read things on other computers for free. After it got to be popular, companies started to create machines with lots of links that you could search to find things of interest. But someone put up a link to something illegal and got sued and had their machine shut down. This happened a few times and people started to take the links off their machines. The search engine companies were the first to go and without them, you couldn't find anything. Eventually no one put up links anymore because the legal risk was too great. The important thing is that it reduced terrorism. I'm not sure how it could have worked anyway. Anything I write on my computer or any music I create gets stored by Word.NET and Music.NET in encrypted formats to protect my privacy. No one but me, Microsoft.NET and the National Corporation can read or hear my stuff even if they could link to it. I shouldn't admit it, but sometimes I go to certain places and speak to the subversives. I know its wrong but their warped views on things have some kind of morbid fascination. For example, I spoke to someone who claimed to be a historian the other day. She had courage all right, admitting to an illegal activity like that. I hadn't understood why it was illegal until she explained. History, she told me, gives you context. You can compare today with some time in the past; ask questions like, "are people better off", "look at the different forms of doing business", "compare corporate records or the rights of citizens" (I think she meant employees). But what interested her was that future generations will know nothing about us; all our records and art are stored digitally, most of it will simply disappear when no one rents it anymore -- remember the sadness when the last digital copy of Sgt. Pepper was accidentally erased? And the data that does survive will all be encrypted and in proprietary formats anyway -- even if there were historians they'd have no right to reverse engineer the formats. I can vaguely remember that people used to have physical copies of music and films, although I'm not sure how that was possible, or what the point was when we can rent whatever we like from the air interface. I don't think it matters that those who come after us can't read our writings or hear our music or see our films; these things are temporal anyway, if no one rents them then they can't be worth keeping. The saddest subversive I met claimed to be a programmer. He said that he was writing a program using Basic.NET. He must have been insane. Even if his program worked he wouldn't be allowed to run it. How could one person possibly check every possible patent infringement in a program they wrote? And even if he hadn't infringed he couldn't sell it without buying a compatibility license from Microsoft.NET and who could possibly afford that? He had said something about gippling the software, which apparently means giving it away, but mad as he was, even he knew that under WUCITA that would be illegal. These subversives really don't seem to understand that a few restrictions are necessary for the sake of innovation. And progress has been made. We don't have spam since most people can't afford an email license due to the expensive patent royalties. Our computer systems all have the same operating system, user interface and applications so everyone knows how to use them, and although they crash and don't work very well, we all know the limitations and can live with them. We have no piracy of intellectual property since we rent it as we want it and have no means of storing it. It was the USA that showed the world the way of course. First the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, then more and more software patents. The Japanese followed suit. The Europeans were a problem, which is only to be expected, with their anti-business un-Christian socialist tendencies. Fortunately, common sense prevailed, helped along by the good old dollar I've no doubt and they accepted both software patents and a redefinition of copyright to suit global corporations. Once the USA, Japan and Europe had uniform intellectual property laws to protect our corporations and our way of life, everyone else had to play ball or they couldn't trade. The result has been that every algorithm and computer program and every piece of music and film (after all music and film can be put into digital form and are therefore a form of software) have been patented. No more variations on Beethoven (unless you've got the patentees approval). No more amateur participation in music or film which might risk lowering standards. No more challenge to established business and business practices. I'm crazy to have written I know. But I am so happy in the world and I remember how unhappy I used to be. I wanted to somehow pass back to you the knowledge that its all going to be okay, that the world really is getting better. Sincerely, Mark. (c) 2000 Triad Commerce Group, LLC. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 05:30:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:00:56 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [Q&A] Gates and Dertouzos Message-ID: Titans Talk Tech : Bill G. and Michael D. Michael Dertouzos and Bill Gates ponder open-source software and the future of the computing industry. DERTOUZOS: It is ironic to me that in the United States, the bastion of capitalism, where people have given of their work lives and capital to create a huge industrial economy, we are now asked to surrender the very same factors of production -- our labor and our capital -- to develop software that will be open and free for all. I do see some qualified benefits to open software, but I wanted to get your views on the big picture before going any deeper. GATES: Most of the people and companies that create intellectual property will continue to want to get some payment for it, as with any creative area. The beauty of all intellectual property compared to physical property is that there is no marginal cost of production. The world benefits immensely from this, whether it's from a great book or a new drug or a new piece of software. There are fixed costs, so most work will cost something, but for software sold on a high-volume low-price model the price is very small compared to the value. There's always been a role for open-source software, and there always will be. Free software has been around for a long time. Likewise there is commercial software where the source is easy to access so the pricing and the source availability are two different things. Ideally, software should be componentized enough that you could extend it without having to read and rebuild the source code of the product. For any software to gain widespread acceptance and use to be popular with consumers and corporate customers it has to possess the infrastructure and support that make it efficient and easy to deploy. So just as the car became popular only when there was a network of gas stations, repair shops, dealerships, paved roads and so on, the same is true for software and most other products. The role of common standards in intellectual property is central here. Thanks to a common operating system standard -- Windows -- a whole industry got created, one that employs more than five million people worldwide. When both hardware companies and independent software vendors have a common standard to work with, the end result is enormous choice for consumers. Open-source software's strength is massive customization but this works against consistency. Consumers don't know what to expect when they load the software; corporate customers find it hard to stay current as each version is customized; developers don't get a volume market because there are multiple flavors of the same product. A lot of software that started out as university software -- like browsers -- transitioned to become commercial software when customers asked for rich features and broad support. In the case of browsers they stayed free because of the advertising value and additional demand for complementary products that they create. DERTOUZOS: I agree with you that there is a role for all three -- commercial, open, and free software -- and add to the list another important benefit of open software : It accumulates for everyone's use code contributed by many programmers. But what of commercial software, that has the potential of becoming a standard for millions of people? To be used widely, it will be given away initially, and sold later when it has taken hold. In the long term, after the software has stabilized and returned its development cost and a good profit, software developers may find it increasingly difficult to charge for it. I suspect that such software, and maybe most software, will, after a commercial period, become very low-cost, and in some cases, even free. Do you think this is likely? GATES: One of the key characteristics of the software industry is that, because of incredibly rapid technological change, products must be continuously modified to reflect innovations. For example, software will need to change to support speech input, which will be fantastic for users. So development costs are ongoing. With the high-volume, low-cost model adopted by Microsoft and the PC software industry, such costs are spread widely, so consumers pay a very low price to benefit from billions of dollars of R&D. The key is in value and utility -- if consumers get both, they will be willing to pay for them and, if the software is good enough, it will be used widely from the outset. So the world you are describing already exists : Consumers already get an amazing amount of functionality from their software at a very low cost. Contrast the old proprietary computing model, where software accounted for a high proportion of system cost, with the PC model, where software is only a tiny percentage of overall cost. That comparison makes much of today's PC software seem almost free. DERTOUZOS: In the commercial period, when the software is still evolving, a successful strategy for maintaining revenue is, increasingly, the annual upgrade, which, incidentally, adds to the "feature shock" of users. This practice, together with an evolving Web, suggests that we'll move from buying shrink-wrapped software to simply buying upgrades through periodic downloads at a monthly fee. Do you see Microsoft and other software developers becoming such "service" organizations? GATES: Regular upgrades are clearly necessary in an industry that is changing as fast as the software business -- just as they are in, say, the auto industry. I can't ever imagine a time when software will not continue to evolve in this way. With the high-volume, low-cost model, you have to make the software as attractive as possible to as many computer users as possible, and that means lots of features. And clearly not all of them will be used by every buyer. But in general I think you are right that, in order to "hide" the complexity and adaptability of software from the average user, upgrades will increasingly be carried out transparently and automatically, without users having to do anything. So rather than having to ensure that your software is always up-to-date, the software will do it for you -- you'll wake up in the morning and the latest version of the software will have been installed overnight. To that extent, software will evolve into even more of a service business than it already is, and in the long term there will probably be a move toward a subscription-style model. DERTOUZOS: Browsers and operating systems will merge in functionality, simply because people need to have the same commands for dealing with information, regardless of whether it is local or distant. On this, you and I agree. However, we disagree on how to get there: I dream of a system built from scratch that gets rid of layers of old software and brings a new truly easy-to-use metaphor to the Web-centric world, as important as the desktop was earlier. I believe that you want to get there gradually, by upgrading Windows. Recall that the Web itself was created by a small team of people, yet ended up on millions of computers. Could something like that happen here, with a new system that might spring out of nowhere? Would you consider replacing your own baby, ahead of a competitive threat, with a brand-new, simple, super-efficient browser-operating system? GATES: Whenever a new word is added to a computer language or a new feature to an operating system there is a question of whether it would be better to start from scratch. We actually did start from scratch with Windows NT and I am sure we will do so again. In the meantime, we are evolving every version of our operating system. We have made the browser and HTML the primary display language, replacing the old style help and folder display. There are new operating systems that integrate the browser like BeOS but none have done as much as Windows has. For every new advance there will be many new competitors, including people who compete with a whole new operating system and people who compete using middleware to run on top of the operating system. If we do our job well, giving people the new capabilities and compatibility, we can make a big contribution. With Windows running on well over 200 million computers worldwide, we constantly think about the customer base and how we get them from here to there. A lot of the "layers of old software" you refer to do get eliminated we're constantly stripping out redundant code or replacing it with faster ways of doing what the old code did. DERTOUZOS: The millions of users of all operating systems and browsers, worldwide, appreciate the need for system stability. Yet the incremental changes that have ensured it have also led to today's difficult-to-use systems and I mean the systems of all software developers, without exception. Novices and experts alike kneel (I sometimes even cry) as we try to fend off a tangle of intertwined lizards and thousands of moving parts within these systems and the many applications that use them until we luck in on a fix. We'll have to clean up this mess if we are to provide the true ease of use that will enable people to achieve the 300 percent productivity gains we envision in the 21st century. People will have to rise above battling low-level details, to access the knowledge they need, collaborate with others, customize their systems to their own human needs and automate their own repetitive tasks. I think the time has come to bridge local and distant computation and support these much-needed capabilities in a new breed of system; applications will then be freed up to use all this new power in medicine, education, business, recreation, commerce and so on. I can't see us getting there incrementally. GATES: The danger here is that we may simply dismiss the progress that the computer software and hardware industries have already made. Twenty years ago nobody used a computer unless they were a hobbyist or employed by a corporate IT department. Now, even a child can use a PC to carry out computing tasks that were actually beyond the capabilities of those 1970s IT departments. We've already seen huge gains in productivity as a result of the PC, and enormous strides in education, medicine, recreation and commerce. Four years ago you couldn't buy a book online; now you can buy almost anything online. And the gulf between remote and local computers is already being bridged, both by the Web and by other networking technologies. Clearly, we're only at the start of the Digital Age, and our future progress will undoubtedly dwarf our past achievements. But we shouldn't underestimate how far we've already come. We also shouldn't underestimate how much work remains to be done. Simplicity is a key goal, but it's a constantly moving target. Both hardware and software are constantly becoming ever more sophisticated, we want to add more and different types of devices to our computers, and we want all this to work perfectly and easily and be simple to upgrade too. Plus we're trying to drive computer usage toward less-technical consumers deep into the mass market. And that's a huge challenge for the industry, but one we undoubtedly have to meet if we are to drive future growth. DERTOUZOS: The Agrarian Revolution with its plow, the Industrial Revolution with its steam engine and the Information Revolution with its computer have all improved our economic lives. Maybe the time has come for a new revolution, not about things, but about the most precious resource on this planet -- ourselves? What role and purpose do you see for human beings in the Information Age? GATES: I'm very optimistic about the role of human beings in the Information Age, because this is an era where people their knowledge, and their ability to put that knowledge to work will be more important than ever before. There are great dangers to thinking that just because manual labor -- whether on the land or in factories -- is playing a relatively smaller role in wealth creation, then people are also playing a smaller role. In fact, the Information Age is enabling people who were previously forced to pursue a single means of wealth creation those, for example, who lived in remote areas had no option but to work on the land to choose from a far wider range of work. Technology such as the PC, the Internet and cheap telecommunications have brought amazing mobility to the factors of production. The Information Age has brought people together in even more fundamental ways. The increasing speed and flow of information has opened up closed economies and helped democratize the most repressive regimes. You can close geographic borders but you can't build effective borders in cyberspace. So technology is giving people more freedom, and the power to do more with that freedom. And technology will never replace the wonders of human interaction no matter how good PCs get at recognizing voice or handwriting, they'll never read body language or smile back at you. DERTOUZOS: I fully share your views and optimism on human beings and the future uses of the technologies we are developing. However, I am concerned about a split that started 300 years ago in the Enlightenment that busted up faith and reason, man and nature, which until that time were united. The liberation of reason caused science to blossom and led to the Industrial Revolution, which made our part of the world wealthy. By now, this split has taken hold, and each of us goes through life in a compartment, labeled technologist or humanist, rational or spiritual, logical or emotional. I don't see the Information Revolution curing this split. It may even aggravate it by increasing our reliance on virtual encounters and machine knowledge. Meanwhile, the world around us is becoming explosively complex with a myriad of intertwined challenges and problems that straddle these divisions and cannot be handled with such partial mind sets. To cope with this new world, but also to enrich ourselves, I believe we need to unite our divided selves and try to become whole again. That's what I mean by a fourth revolution aimed at understanding, beyond things, ourselves. Any thoughts along these lines? GATES: If the Information Revolution did lead to a reliance on virtual encounters and machine knowledge, then I would agree with you. In reality, though, the computer is increasingly a gateway to knowledge, to the arts, to new cultures, and so on, that were simply not accessible before. It is creating communities that, far from being mere virtual entities, serve as the foundation for real relationships. So to the extent that the computer can link people with knowledge and cultures and each other more efficiently than any other past technology, it can help push them toward healing the rift you see. But technology is only a Toland, like all tools, its effectiveness depends on the skill and intentions of the user. In the end, you have to put your faith in human nature. If you think the invention of the book was bad, then you will feel the same way about the changes that are coming. If the book was a good thing, then these advances carry the empowerment even further. DERTOUZOS: I agree with you on this last point: The angels and the devils are definitely within us, not within the machines we use. And so are our divided selves. That's why I view this as a human problem in need of a human revolution. Speaking of human problems, I believe that left to its own devices, the new world of information will increase the gap between rich and poor people, simply because computers make the rich more productive and hence richer, while the poor are standing still. Do you agree? GATES: The power of cheap software and cheap computing has brought enormous economic power to millions of people who in the past lacked it. It has helped democratize nations and economies around the world. It is bringing about the death of distance, as high-speed telecommunications link people, companies and countries faster and cheaper than ever before. And while this Information Revolution hasn't yet reached deeply into the poorest regions of the world, it will look at what is happening in India and China, for example. The Industrial Age did in many ways bypass poorer countries; the Information Age actually gives those countries a chance to compete on equal footing with richer countries. In fact many of the poorer countries have a comparative advantage in that they can now leverage their cheaper labor around the world not just locally using the power of the PC, the Internet and cheap telecommunications. The poor are not standing still; they are catching up faster than they ever did in the Industrial Age. DERTOUZOS: I share the view that the poor could rise out of poverty, by using the new world of information to learn how to read and write, take care of their health, cultivate the land, and acquire language and other skills that they may use to sell services in the information marketplace. However, for this to happen, the poor will need communications, workstations and training all of which cost a great deal, and therefore cannot materialize spontaneously. The people you allude to, in Bangalore and elsewhere, who deliver software services over the Net, speak English and know how to program. They are but a drop in the ocean of six billion people on Earth, barely 2 percent of whom are interconnected. My point is that all the benefits that we envision will not become available to the poor if we leave the Information Revolution to its own devices. We need to take an active role as individuals, companies and governments of the industrially rich world to help the poor ascend along this path. How can you disagree, in light of all you have done along these lines? GATES: Unfortunately, the benefits of every new technology tend to trickle down slowly. Even the earliest tools of the communications revolution the auto, the airplane, the telephone have yet to benefit some poorer parts of the world. But what will clearly help the spread of information technology is the amazing speed at which computing costs have dropped, along with information technology's ability to break down borders. We're already seeing examples of how cheap PCs can transform companies and government agencies in poorer countries, and the benefits of these changes feed directly to the population. But generally, you are right: companies and individuals in rich countries will have to contribute technology and cash to kick-start a truly global Information Revolution. I am a big believer in philanthropy, and I'm excited about the impact it can have. I think it is also important to consider priorities. I have chosen to focus on making sure that children in poor countries get access to vaccines so they can live a healthy life. This has to come before making sure they have access to computers. I have put more than $6 billion into my two foundations because of my enthusiasm for taking the great advances in medicine and information technology and giving more people access. We can do some great things here. DERTOUZOS: I wish other people and organizations would follow your philanthropic lead. And thanks for this enjoyable and informative discussion. ============================================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 14:39:19 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:09:19 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] SOVEREIGN STATUS OF INDIA Message-ID: <3B73F217.214320C8@eth.net> Dear brothers and sisters Dear brothers and sisters, Kindly refer to the End User License Agreement (EULA) comes with microsoft products. I had gone through the ELUA of Microsoft Windows 98. It is clearly mentioned that the Software product is licensed, not sold. Please check up with other other Microsoft product. Government using software products and/or anything that requires a licence from a third party is a challenge to the SOVEREIGN status of INDIA and so is violation of THE CONSTITUTION OF INDIA. We must approach a court of law and retain the SOVEREIGN status of INDIA in accordance with our CONSTITUTION. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 14:32:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Anil Kumar) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 07:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] SOVEREIGN STATUS OF INDIA In-Reply-To: <3B73F217.214320C8@eth.net> Message-ID: Excellent point. This should be mentioned with due importance in FSF promotional materials prepared for India with enough references to substantiate it. On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, M Balakrishna Pillai wrote: > Dear brothers and sisters > Dear brothers and sisters, > > Kindly refer to the End User License Agreement (EULA) comes with > microsoft products. I had gone through the ELUA of Microsoft Windows > 98. It is clearly mentioned that the Software product is licensed, not > sold. Please check up with other other Microsoft product. > > > Government using software products and/or anything that requires a > licence from a third party is a challenge to the SOVEREIGN status of > INDIA and so is violation of THE CONSTITUTION OF INDIA. > > We must approach a court of law and retain the SOVEREIGN status of INDIA > in accordance with our CONSTITUTION. > > M.Balakrishna Pillai > _______________________________________________ > http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india > -- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 02:12:39 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 07:42:39 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [Q&A] Gates and Dertouzos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 at 11:00, Raj Singh wrote: Titans Talk Tech : Bill G. and Michael D. [...] Raj, Please be kind enough to restrain yourself from posting large chunks of quoted text to this list. Many users have by this time privately written to me to take some steps to prevent this. While we all believe in the freedom of expression and sharing of knowledge, this should seldom be construed as a licence to thrust upon unsolicited material on others in the pretext of the highest ideals of freedom and sharing. Your quest for sharing information with the community is all the more appreciated, but should you stoop to the level of spamming is a questionable thing, especially when internet provides for sharing information with least effort and resources by the simple intimation of the related URL. It might also be remembered that the search engines are at the disposal of all the subscribers in this list as you. Please dont take on the burden of teaching the community singularly on your shoulders, for, your shoulders will simply not bear it. Obviously, you need a thorough introspection of your strategies of community service. Dont get offended with the above, you make me reminded that I'm an old man mentally and chronologically.:) -- Radhakrishnan List Owner From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 07:26:17 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (K G Kumar) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:56:17 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Raj Singh's posts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010811124837.02e747f0@mail.myiris.com> --=======471F259======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7367626F; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed At 07:42 AM 8/11/01 +0530, Radi wrote: >Many users have by this time privately >written to me to take some steps to prevent this. Equally, there are others who have silently welcomed Raj Singh's posts which I, for one, find useful and informative. And is it really such a deluge as to clog up bandwidth? And terming his posts "spam" is a mite unfair. For those who don't agree, isn't it just a matter of deleting or filtering his posts? --=======471F259======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7367626F Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/01 --=======471F259=======-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 07:37:09 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:07:09 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Raj Singh's posts In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010811124837.02e747f0@mail.myiris.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 at 12:56, K G Kumar wrote: At 07:42 AM 8/11/01 +0530, Radi wrote: >Many users have by this time privately >written to me to take some steps to prevent this. Equally, there are others who have silently welcomed Raj Singh's posts which I, for one, find useful and informative. And is it really such a deluge as to clog up bandwidth? And Yes, an average post is 5K multiplied by 200 subscribers, again multiplied by 5 posts a day raising the mailserver load to 5000 K of 1000 mails in all. Cant this be reduced to 1K post with all five URL's which means 200K and 200 mails which serves the purpose well enough? KG: do you find the difference now? terming his posts "spam" is a mite unfair. For those who don't Perceptions differ, but verbatim quoting of whole documents already available in the internet is obviously not the optimal usage of the net and is aimed at spoiling the bandwidth, subscribers' diskspace that might derive juvenile pleasure for the poster. agree, isn't it just a matter of deleting or filtering his posts? True, people will be doing the very same thing, but even for that one has to pay to the ISP and DOT. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 08:36:19 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Mohit Agarwal) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 14:06:19 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Raj Singh's posts Message-ID: Today AT 12:56 +0530, K G Kumar wrote: > At 07:42 AM 8/11/01 +0530, Radi wrote: > >Many users have by this time privately > >written to me to take some steps to prevent this. > > Equally, there are others who have silently welcomed Raj Singh's > posts which I, for one, find useful and informative. And is it Well, it's not fair to conclude that those were silent did welcome his posts[*]. They were silent, after all, and you never know what was going on inside their *THICK* heads. > really such a deluge as to clog up bandwidth? And terming his posts IM(NS)HO, *YES*. > "spam" is a mite unfair. For those who don't agree, isn't it just a > matter of deleting or filtering his posts? Nice idea, thanks! Procmail is great, and GPL'd too ;-) mohit [*] Including the entire text in a message, esp. when it's available on the internet, is not a wise thing to do. And it becomes really foolish if somebody repeats it after being requested not to do so. You'll find several messages in the archives where somebody would just mention the URL, and that's it; e.g. http://gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-india/2001-August/000311.html and many more .. Quoting the entire text is not a bright idea. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 10:02:10 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Parag Mehta) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 03:02:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Raj Singh's posts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, my 2 cents : you cannot say the person is spamming. well the only thing here is the person should understand how valuable the bandwidth is. also the person should have some netiquettes. well i would suggest if there could be s et of list guidelines that can be put forth to the lsit and also as part of the welcome mail. if a user fails to follow the list rules he is banned from the list or something like that. i think for list rules Raju Manthur can forward the lig/lih list rules. best regards, parag mehta #exclude From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 10:52:47 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:22:47 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] HELP SOUGHT: Software for reading clubs... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear FSF-Indiaers: This may be a tall order. Was wondering if one could get some help from anyone on this list to build a small software program to help us with our tiny Magazines Initiative, a not-for-profit venture that is carried on here on a voluntary basis. This Initiative seeks to put local schools and clubs in touch with potential supporters abroad, who would donate about $100 per year (to any school or club of their choice) to enable the latter to get access to useful magazines. We calculate that with a $100 equivalent donation, any school can subscribe to 25-27 magazines each month, for one full year. This means that the students or club members have access to a wide range of quality reading material (general knowledge, science education, current affairs, news magazines, sports, even IT mags without CDs). The end goal is to widen the reading habit locally and give people access to useful and inexpensive information in this information-driven age. We are still at an early stage of the project. It has been going on intermittently for the past two years. So far, about half a dozen schools have been covered. Due to the considerable paperwork involved, it is difficult to replicate this scheme to more schools/clubs. Inspite of the fact that there are many willing to come forward with support for such institutions, when we put out appeals via the Internet, it takes time and energy to manually complete the paperwork... update the list of magazines, their subscription prices, etc. We feel that if we had some software, our work would be more effective, and coverage could be possibly increased. Does anyone agree with our goals? What is required is a software to undertake the following tasks: * Build a simple list (database?) of magazines available, their current subscription, address to where subscription money is to be sent, whether to be sent as DD/MO/etc, and special temporary subscription offers if any. (See details enlisted below.) * Build a 'DD-drafting software'. After a list of magazines is selected from the above module, it would immediately generate a statement to the bank, instructing the bank to create DDs in favour of specific parties (i.e. the magazine publishers), the amount of the DD, on which centres (Bombay, Delhi, etc) and the commission being charged by the bank. * Further, another module could keep a list of the schools/clubs being currently supported, list of the magazines they are receiving and uptil which date the magazines are subscribed till. This is for our records. * Lastly, another module could generate a report for the school -- intimating them which magazines they would be receiving, the details of the DD by which the payment was made (DD number and date) and when the DD was despatched by post. This is meant to ensure that the schools/clubs could take up cases of non-receipt of magazines, if any, directly with the publishers. Could any kind soul help us generate such a program? Our preferences are for a Linux-based software, and one that runs without XWindows (in terminal mode). I'm not a technical person, so don't know whether what I'm asking for makes sense in the first place. But if some students could take up this challenge as their college project, it would be great. Possibly, this software could be used by others in the country who want to take advantage of the large number of inexpensive magazines available across India... and also the crying need for people to get access to reading material at public centres. We could perhaps be able to offer a limited amount of financial support for those undertaking this work. Kindly note that ours is a wholly unfunded project, and zero-funds is spend on administrative charges for the same. Funding received is sent directly to the schools or clubs, and the aim is that every rupee goes towards a magazine subscription. We chose magazines instead of books because these tend to be more contemporary, have more utilitarian value, and are above all more inexpensive. If you feel this idea is worth persuing, do get in touch with me via fred@bytesforall.org Regards, Frederick Noronha Goa. PS: Below is a suggestion for the formats of some of the forms generated by the 'MagIni' (Magazine Initiative) software: #1 ========================================================================== LIST OF MAGAZINES AVAILABLE (This is a easy-to-read listing) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Serial No. Name of mag Address Description Price Special rates ========================================================================== NOTE: This requires to be updated regularly, as the subscription prices change without notice. In addition, one should have the facility to choose mags from this list, which would then generate the form below... This form should be printable (possibly as a txt file, or even generated into an email) so that it could be sent to schools who are not part of the project yet, and might want to understand what it involves. #2 ========================================================================== BANK DEMAND DRAFT 'DRAFTING' PRINTOUT -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Draft in favour of Place Rs Bank's commission TOTAL Rs Rs ========================================================================== NOTE: This form is generated after the magazines are ticked off (or selected in any other way) from the list above. This would minimise the monotony involved in calculating the budget required for a particular school, and also calculating the amount to be paid to the bank for the DDs and the bank's commission. This form too needs to be printable, or despatched via email to the bank. #3 ========================================================================== LIST OF SCHOOLS CURRENTLY PART OF THE MAGS. INITIATIVE SCHEME Name of school Magazines received Subscription valid till ========================================================================== NOTE: This is for our records. There could be some additional feature for alerting (via email?) when the mag subscriptions are drawing to an end. #4 ========================================================================== REPORT FOR INDIVIDUAL SCHOOLS Mags being subscribed DD No DD Date Posted to mag on date: ========================================================================== That's it. Simple or asking for too much? FN cls From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 12:33:43 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun Kumar.D) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:03:43 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Security concern for Free Softwares. Message-ID: <002901c12261$e0902640$0200a8c0@asianetindia.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C1228F.F5144AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, When the source code is distributed along with a software, anyone = can examine it. But if there are any security holes in them, won't they = be exploited by hackers? Won't this issue make free softwares insecure = for the common user?=20 Happy hacking :-) Best regards, Arun Kumar.D, Trivandrum. MSN - arun_k_d@msn.com ICQ - 113777906 ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C1228F.F5144AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
     
    Hi,
          When the = source code=20 is distributed along with a software, anyone can examine it. But if = there are=20 any security holes in them, won't they be exploited by hackers? Won't = this issue=20 make free softwares insecure for the common user?
     
    Happy hacking :-)
     
     
    Best regards,
     
    Arun Kumar.D,
    Trivandrum.
     
    MSN - arun_k_d@msn.com
    ICQ - 113777906
     
    ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C1228F.F5144AA0-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 13:33:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:03:08 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Korean Air Mission Critical Systems Moved to GNU/Linux Message-ID: Hi all, Korean Air has decided to move its flight-crew scheduling and daily accounting systems to GNU/Linux running on an IBM mainframe, and 5000 users will access this information through their browsers starting in September. This is a good anecdote for large implementation of a GNU/Linux. More details at http://www.zdnet.com/filters/printerfriendly/0,6061,2797645-35,00.html raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 14:12:22 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:42:22 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] My Apologies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Please be kind enough to restrain yourself from posting large chunks of > quoted text to this list. Done. For most of them, I did not have the URLs. -- Raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 14:56:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 11 Aug 2001 20:26:08 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Security concern for Free Softwares. In-Reply-To: <002901c12261$e0902640$0200a8c0@asianetindia.com> References: <002901c12261$e0902640$0200a8c0@asianetindia.com> Message-ID: <863d6yve5z.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> "Arun Kumar.D" writes: > Hi, When the source code is distributed along with a software, > anyone can examine it. But if there are any security holes in them, > won't they be exploited by crackers? Won't this issue make free > softwares insecure for the common user? On the contrary. Because of its very nature, Free Software gets subjected to a process of Peer Review far more robust than that for Proprietary Software. You see, because "anyone can examine" the source code, possible security holes in Free Software are detected and fixed far earlier, quicker and sooner than in Proprietary Software. Besides, looking at the source is not the only way of detecting security holes. Unless you have been hibernating for quite some time, you must be familiar with the recent and not-so-recent news reports of the numerous security holes detected in the products of a particularly notorious Proprietary Software company. The source code of these compromised products is not available and still the detection of security holes (by third parties) in these products has become a matter of routine. In addition, when a security hole is detected in any Free Software, it invariably gets fixed immediately, by anyone. Whereas, for a Proprietary Software program to be fixed, you are at the complete mercy of the program's manufacturer to fix it. In fact, if the hole in question is detected internally within the Proprietary Software company, they may not even bother to fix it unless the hole gets exploited! For more on the security risks of using Proprietary Software, please see: http://www.complete.org/fs/fsethics/html/node9.html -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 17:36:42 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:06:42 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Security concern for Free Softwares. References: <002901c12261$e0902640$0200a8c0@asianetindia.com> Message-ID: <3B756D2A.15CBBAFA@eth.net> > "Arun Kumar.D" wrote: When the source code is distributed along with a software, > anyone can examine it. But if there are any security holes in them, > won't they be exploited by hackers? > > Arun Kumar.D, > Trivandrum. Practical experience shows that they are fixed immediately in the case of FREE SOFTWARES and you have the liberty to rectify it. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 13 07:50:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Suraj Kumar S.) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:20:06 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] HELP SOUGHT: Software for reading clubs... In-Reply-To: ; from fred@bytesforall.org on Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 04:22:47PM +0530 References: Message-ID: <20010813132006.A23877@in.inapp.com> Hi all, The project proposed by Frederick Noronha would be really useful for a lot of educational institutions in India. He has put most of the requirements very clearly. Why don't we commission a project and start some system study on it, so that all the requirements are made clear. Iam ready to volunteer my spare time into it. -suraj -- GNU/Linux rulz! On Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 04:22:47PM +0530, Frederick Noronha wrote: > Dear FSF-Indiaers: > > This may be a tall order. Was wondering if one could get some help from > anyone on this list to build a small software program to help us with our > tiny Magazines Initiative, a not-for-profit venture that is carried on here > on a voluntary basis. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 13 08:12:45 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:42:45 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] A draft letter focusing on freedom Message-ID: <86bslk9y4i.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> --=-=-= Here's a draft of a letter which can be sent to the WB government. With slight modifications, this letter can be used to address any government planning a tie-up with any proprietary software company. Also, with slight modifications, this letter can be sent to editors of various newspapers. Please note that most newspapers give priority to printed letters either posted to or dropped at their offices. - Khuzaima --=-=-= Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=draft-letter Content-Description: Draft of a letter opposing the use of proprietary software We, the members of the Free Software community in India, are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans to base your complete e-governance infrastructure on a Proprietary Software company's products. The company in question is Microsoft (India), a wholly owned subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation based in Redmond, USA. The history of Microsoft has shown that it has nothing but contempt for its customers' rights. When you become a Microsoft customer, you surrender certain rights which are otherwise guaranteed by the constitutions of most democracies of the world. Since the Government has the duty to protect its citizens' constitutional rights, it would be unthinkable that your Government is about to surrender some of these rights to this multinational corporation. We urge you to consider our arguments presented in the rest of this letter in favour of adopting Free Software rather than Proprietary Software for all your e-governance and in fact all your Information Technology needs. In the rest of this letter, we will be referring to the term "Proprietary Software company" and "Microsoft" interchangeably, in the hope of conveying that all the ills and demerits which plague entering into a relationship with Microsoft also apply to any other Proprietary Software company. 1. Proprietary Software companies take away your freedom to access and modify the source code of the software or to modify the software in any other manner. This is akin to an automobile manufacturer selling you a car and telling you that it is illegal for you to open the bonnet and look at the engine's inner working. And that it is illegal for you to hire a private mechanic to service the engine. And that it is illegal for you to modify the car in any other manner. Would your Government buy a car with such restrictions? When applied to computer software, the above restriction has some very grave repercussions. In case of a flaw in the software (all computer software has flaws; and even more so with Proprietary Software) you are at the complete and total mercy of the Proprietary Software manufacturer. You do not have the option of hiring software engineers who may be capable of fixing the flaw. You do not even have the guarantee that the flaw will be fixed. All you can do is wait for the Proprietary Software manufacturer to fix the flaw (if at all) and release an updated version at a time of its own choosing. And then you have to pay for the entire updated version rather than just having to pay the cost of fixing the flaw. The other repercussion of the above restriction is related to customisation. Proprietary Software companies take away your right to customise the software as per your needs. It is unthinkable that a project as vast as state-wide e-governance can be accomplished without continuous customisation as per the changing needs of the Government and the people. Although a Proprietary Software company may initially supply you with a customised version of the software, you are again at the mercy of the company for any subsequent customisations that may be required. The Proprietary Software license forbids you to hire capable software engineers to do the customisation. Instead, you must request the company to provide the required customisation, offer large amounts of money unrelated to the task at hand and *hope* that the company will undertake the customisation work. Thus, the restriction on access to source code and modification of the software in any form, *permanently* binds you to the Proprietary Software company in a completely one-sided business relationship which has you at the complete mercy of the company. Considering that an e-Governance infrastructure is a public asset and that the company in this case, Microsoft, is a multinational corporation with profit as its sole motive and with no respect for its customers' rights, the above restrictions by themselves should make your proposed relationship with the said corporation unacceptable. Free Software does not have the above restrictions. All Free Software comes with full access to source code and with full permissions to modify or customise the software as you deem fit. 2. Proprietary Software companies have propagated the idea of software as a material object. They completely disregard the fact that the ability to access, copy and modify information is in fact the greatest boon of the Information Technology age. As a bizarre consequence of the Proprietary Software industry's idea of software as material object, obsolete copyright laws, which predate the IT age, are applied to software making it illegal to copy Proprietary Software. Besides the obvious economic ramification of the Proprietary Software company charging for each and every copy of the same piece of software, this also criminalises the otherwise absolutely innocent task of making a copy for another person's use. For instance, this makes a criminal out of a person who wishes to help his neighbour by copying and giving him a piece of software which he (the neighbour) needs for accomplishing some task. Proprietary Software, in effect, takes away an individual's freedom to do what he wishes to do with his software. We strongly feel that the State should have nothing to do with a business model which criminalises its citizens' innocent activities. Free Software does not place any legal restrictions on copying and distribution of software and, in fact, encourages the modification and redistribution of software for the betterment of society. 3. Most Proprietary Software uses "patented" technology and proprietary, non-standard, file and data formats. Some even forbid the reverse-engineering of their file formats, let alone reverse-engineering of the software itself. This is a grave risk with many repercussions. Proprietary file formats again put your Government at the total mercy of the Proprietary Software company. This implies that the stored data, which is otherwise the property of the Government, can only be accessed by the said Proprietary Software. This is totally unacceptable. At any given time, at the whims of the Proprietary Software company, you can lose your right to access your own data. Proprietary file and data formats are an impediment to the smooth and efficient exchange of information. It places undue hurdles in the process of exchanging information between diverse computing environments. Proprietary file formats are, by definition, non-transparent. Transparency should be the bedrock of an e-Governance infrastructure. In contrast to Proprietary Software, Free Software only uses open standards based file and data formats compatible across diverse computing environments. In addition to all the primary advantages of Free Software vis-a-vis Proprietary Software listed above, there are many other *derived* advantages such as security, reliability, stability and last but not the least, affordability. References for further information on Free Software: http://www.fsf.org http://www.fsf.org.in --=-=-=-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 13 08:45:50 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:15:50 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Photoes of RMS' visit Message-ID: <3B7793BE.2173C7D8@ti.com> I have uploaded some of the photoes of RMS' visit to Kerala. They are accessible from http://photos.yahoo.com/rkrishnan_m/ Click on rms-visit. -- Ramakrishnan M World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 13 16:30:36 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:00:36 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Govt Using GNU/Linux Message-ID: The city of Largo, Florida, USA is using GNU/Linux in all it's computer and saving bucket loads of tax payers money. more at http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/08/10/1441239 This has a pretty neat reports of the problems they faced and how they solved them. Good read to any one trying to get GNU system in offices. raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 13 19:47:36 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 01:17:36 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Sublists Message-ID: The following lists have been created: 1. fsf-edu@gnu.org.in Free Software in Education Please subscribe at: http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-edu 2. fsf-prog@gnu.org.in For programmers and technical discussion Please subscribe at: http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-prog 3. fsf-dev@gnu.org.in For projects and developer coordination Please subscribe at: http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-dev All are requested to direct posts relating to the above themes to the respective sublists and let us keep the main list for general announcement and discussion relating to philosphy, licences, etc., and of course flame wars. Hope this is OK for the moment. Any comments are welcome. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 14 05:08:46 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:38:46 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] DMCA Message-ID: <3B78B25E.739D9D1C@ti.com> http://www.anti-dmca.org/ -- Ramakrishnan M World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 14 06:33:23 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 14 Aug 2001 12:03:23 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Public-Funded Knowledge : Free v/s Commercial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86g0av5ex8.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raj Singh writes: > Similarly for NCST developed Hindi software. I understand that NCST > subsequently tied-up with Microsoft and this formed the kernel of Indian > language support touted by Microsoft for MS-Word in 1999. So, now the > government and Indian public is paying Microsoft for what (in some sense) > was developed with public money and "belongs" to them ! It's official. Microsoft launches Office XP in nine [Indian] languages. NCST is among the organisations which "worked with Microsoft on this initiative." http://www.hinduonnet.com/stories/0214000n.htm [Please note that the above URL will be valid only for today, Aug 14. The story can subsequently be accessed from The Hindu's archives.] -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 14 07:03:15 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satish Babu) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:33:15 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Another FUD tactic? Message-ID: This article says that Windows XP has a deliberately botched security model so that things will get worse (..than Code Red, I suppose), enabling M$ to say, "Hey, it is this TCP/IP that's the real problem. How about a new protocol, TCP/M$?"... http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010802.html From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 14 12:52:23 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Kanti Jadia) Date: 14 Aug 2001 12:52:23 -0000 Subject: [FSF India] Re:Draft Letter by Khuzaima A. Lakdawala Message-ID: <20010814125223.2478.qmail@mailweb32.rediffmail.com> We, the members of the Free Software community in India, are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans to base your complete e-governance infrastructure on a Proprietary Software company's products. The company in question is Microsoft (India), a wholly owned subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation based in Redmond, USA. The history of Microsoft has shown that it has nothing but contempt for its customers' rights. When you become a Microsoft customer, you surrender certain rights which are otherwise guaranteed by the constitutions of most democracies of the world. Since the Government has the duty to protect its citizens' constitutional rights, it would be unthinkable that your Government is about to surrender some of these rights to this multinational corporation. We urge you to consider our arguments presented in the rest of this letter in favour of adopting Free Software rather than Proprietary Software for all your e-governance and in fact all your Information Technology needs. In the rest of this letter, we will be referring to the term "Proprietary Software company" and "Microsoft" interchangeably, in the hope of conveying that all the ills and demerits which plague entering into a relationship with Microsoft also apply to any other Proprietary Software company. 1. Proprietary Software companies take away your freedom to access and modify the source code of the software or to modify the software in any other manner. This is akin to an automobile manufacturer selling you a car and telling you that it is illegal for you to open the bonnet and look at the engine's inner working. And that it is illegal for you to hire a private mechanic to service the engine. And that it is illegal for you to modify the car in any other manner. Would your Government buy a car with such restrictions? When applied to computer software, the above restriction has some very grave repercussions. In case of a flaw in the software (all computer software has flaws; and even more so with Proprietary Software) you are at the complete and total mercy of the Proprietary Software manufacturer. You do not have the option of hiring software engineers who may be capable of fixing the flaw. You do not even have the guarantee that the flaw will be fixed. All you can do is wait for the Proprietary Software manufacturer to fix the flaw (if at all) and release an updated version at a time of its own choosing. And then you have to pay for the entire updated version rather than just having to pay the cost of fixing the flaw. The other repercussion of the above restriction is related to customisation. Proprietary Software companies take away your right to customise the software as per your needs. It is unthinkable that a project as vast as state-wide e-governance can be accomplished without continuous customisation as per the changing needs of the Government and the people. Although a Proprietary Software company may initially supply you with a customised version of the software, you are again at the mercy of the company for any subsequent customisations that may be required. The Proprietary Software license forbids you to hire capable software engineers to do the customisation. Instead, you must request the company to provide the required customisation, offer large amounts of money unrelated to the task at hand and *hope* that the company will undertake the customisation work. Thus, the restriction on access to source code and modification of the software in any form, *permanently* binds you to the Proprietary Software company in a completely one-sided business relationship which has you at the complete mercy of the company. Considering that an e-Governance infrastructure is a public asset and that the company in this case, Microsoft, is a multinational corporation with profit as its sole motive and with no respect for its customers' rights, the above restrictions by themselves should make your proposed relationship with the said corporation unacceptable. Free Software does not have the above restrictions. All Free Software comes with full access to source code and with full permissions to modify or customise the software as you deem fit. --Shouldn't we specify that the changes have to be reverted back. Rest all is fine Kanti _________________________________________________________ For Rs. 2,000,000 worth of Aptech scholarships click below http://clients.rediff.com/clients/aptechsch/index.htm From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 14 17:57:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (T-Online) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:57:30 +0200 Subject: [FSF India] FSF/GNU Message-ID: <3B79668A.A0E3E1BB@T-Online.de> Please let me know what is FSF and GNU. I am ignorant of this short form or acronym. Once your explain I will react to engage with you or not. With best wishes, William From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 07:12:48 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (mcjayan) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:42:48 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Can we reduce number of mails? Message-ID: <003001c12559$b1ee8340$03000004@Chaithanya> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C12587.CA24B320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! Can we think of a way to reduce the number of mails coming to FSF = mailing list? I have recieved 4 mails before afternoon today from the FSF mailing = list. =20 It will be very useful if we can combine all these into a single = mail and send as one mail per day. This will help in consolidating all articles, news and = comments for a day in a single mail. Regards Jayakrishnan ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C12587.CA24B320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi!
     
        Can we think of a = way to reduce=20 the number of mails coming to FSF mailing list?
        I have recieved 4 = mails before=20 afternoon today from the FSF mailing list.
       
        It will be very = useful if=20 we can combine all these into a = single mail and=20 send as one
        mail per day. This = will help in=20 consolidating all articles, news and comments for a day
        in a single = mail.
     
    Regards
    Jayakrishnan
     
    ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C12587.CA24B320-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 07:04:11 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:34:11 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Can we reduce number of mails? In-Reply-To: <003001c12559$b1ee8340$03000004@Chaithanya> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 at 12:42, mcjayan wrote: It will be very useful if we can combine all these into a single mail and send as one mail per day. This will help in consolidating all articles, news and comments for a day in a single mail. You can reconfigure your subscription options and change to digest mode so that mailman will send you all the posts as a daily digest. Please check at: http://gnu.org.in/listinfo/fsf-india and go the the bottom where you need to enter your email id in the textbox against the edit options button. Click it and follow the instructions. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 08:14:40 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Suraj Kumar S.) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:44:40 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Can we reduce number of mails? In-Reply-To: <003001c12559$b1ee8340$03000004@Chaithanya>; from mcjayan@sify.com on Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 12:42:48PM +0530 References: <003001c12559$b1ee8340$03000004@Chaithanya> Message-ID: <20010815134440.A29562@in.inapp.com> Hello, The possible option would be that you subscribe to daily digest, so that you get only one mail a day. You can change your settings at http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india Go to the end of this page and login with your email address, and change the "Set Digest Mode" setting to ON. -suraj On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 12:42:48PM +0530, mcjayan wrote: > Hi! > > Can we think of a way to reduce the number of mails coming to FSF mailing list? > I have recieved 4 mails before afternoon today from the FSF mailing list. > > It will be very useful if we can combine all these into a single mail and send as one > mail per day. This will help in consolidating all articles, news and comments for a day > in a single mail. > > Regards > Jayakrishnan > From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 07:39:49 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:09:49 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] FSF/GNU In-Reply-To: <3B79668A.A0E3E1BB@T-Online.de> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, T-Online wrote: > Please let me know what is FSF and GNU. Please see www.gnu.org for an explanation. > Once your explain I will react to engage with you or not. This list is basically for the issues wrt FSF and India. raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 10:22:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Sathya) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Tv Program on Stallman Message-ID: <20010815102228.37832.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, We have produced a 1 hour special programme on Richard stallman and his ideals. the programme is called "st.INGUcious in India". The programme will be telecast in the following times on following days, fotrward the mail to the concerned. Original telecast - 19th august 9:10 PM Repeat telecast - 20 th August 1:10 AM, 8:10 AM and 5:10 PM and one more last telecast will be on 21 August at 5:10 AM. I thank FSF-India people who co-operated with our corresondent David in trivandrum. Sathya Prakash Peddy News Producer TMG Enter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 10:47:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Sathya) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Stallman Tv programme ..more details Message-ID: <20010815104706.85615.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Sorry i forgot to give tye crucial detail.. the programme willl be telecast on TMG Enter television channel, the only technology channel in south asia. if you are not gettingbthe channel now, coax your cable operator to give it to you. We have produced a 1 hour special programme on Richard stallman and his ideals. the programme is called "st.INGUcious in India". The programme will be telecast in the following times on following days, fotrward the mail to the concerned. Original telecast - 19th august 9:10 PM Repeat telecast - 20 th August 1:10 AM, 8:10 AM and 5:10 PM and one more last telecast will be on 21 August at 5:10 AM. I thank FSF-India people who co-operated with our corresondent David in trivandrum. Sathya Prakash Peddy News Producer TMG Enter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 05:04:07 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (narayanan sathya) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Public-Funded Knowledge : Free v/s Commercial Message-ID: <20010816050407.63206.qmail@web14202.mail.yahoo.com> It is distressing to know how MNCs like Microsoft to control the rest of the software economy of the world. The HINDI software is just one example. Similar is the story of most of the software exporters in India. We are always confined to some kind of software services. Even software design and coding is ultimately become a service to the MNCs who always anjoys the long term benefits by integrating the bricks made by high caliber software coolies of India. Even for a software patent (if at all required) we need to go to U.S! See more thought on this topic at http://indiaforward.com/knsabu1.htm It is certain that to counter the crooked designs of such political economy, we need teamwork of openminded intelligentsia who believe that technology and knowledge is for solving problems and not creating just money and wealth alone, without addressing the basic human issues. K N Sabu ER&DCI (T) ===== ........................................................ We make a living by what we get; a life by what we give. ........................................................ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 06:54:50 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Varghese B George) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:24:50 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] (no subject) Message-ID: <200108160654.f7G6so224962@mailhub.xstreamindia.co.in> From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 05:56:49 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 16 Aug 2001 11:26:49 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re:Draft Letter by Khuzaima A. Lakdawala In-Reply-To: <20010814125223.2478.qmail@mailweb32.rediffmail.com> References: <20010814125223.2478.qmail@mailweb32.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <86bslglf8e.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> "Kanti Jadia" writes: > Free Software does not have the above restrictions. All Free Software > comes with full access to source code and with full permissions to > modify or customise the software as you deem fit. > > --Shouldn't we specify that the changes have to be reverted back. Dear Kanti, Further down, at the end of point 2, the letter states: Free Software does not place any legal restrictions on copying and distribution of software and, in fact, encourages the modification and redistribution of software for the betterment of society. Does this reasonably address your query? Yes, I know I am *fudging* it a little by not mentioning the GPL and its requirement "that the changes *have* to be" given back to the Free Software community. If you feel very strongly about this, please feel free to add/insert this requirement in the letter before using it. Regards, Khuzaima From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 07:20:48 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Varghese B George) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:50:48 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Linux'ising Kerala's Villages Message-ID: <200108160720.f7G7Kmk25065@mailhub.xstreamindia.co.in> Hello All. There has been lots of mails and discussion to stop M$'ising WB. How about convincing "Gods Own Country"-Kerala's villagers to start using Linux? A District Co-operative Bank in Pathanamthitta is going to start computerising. Their requirements are modest, a 4 client computer and a server network configuration to run a custom banking software for their dily needs. They do not have any knowledge in using computers, so they dont need to 'unlearn' M$ Windows. Once this bank has been succesfully computerised, other similar banks will follow suit. A representative of this bank had asked me for advice on these matters. I would like to know how to proceed from here. They would also need a Customised Banking Software (in Malayam maybe???) to manage their accounts. -- Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware. Varghese B George XStream Software From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 08:19:02 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:49:02 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re:Draft Letter by Khuzaima A. Lakdawala In-Reply-To: <86bslglf8e.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in>; from klak@giasbm01.vsnl.net.in on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:26:49AM +0530 References: <20010814125223.2478.qmail@mailweb32.rediffmail.com> <86bslglf8e.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <20010816134902.A638@mailandnews.com> On Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:26:49AM +0530, Khuzaima A. Lakdawala wrote: > > its requirement "that the changes *have* to be" given back to the Free > Software community. Only if you want to publish (distribute) the changed software. GPL dosen't insist that all modifications be distributed in the first place, although it is encouraged (and a very good thing to do). bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 09:53:20 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 16 Aug 2001 15:23:20 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re:Draft Letter by Khuzaima A. Lakdawala In-Reply-To: <20010816134902.A638@mailandnews.com> References: <20010814125223.2478.qmail@mailweb32.rediffmail.com> <86bslglf8e.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <20010816134902.A638@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: <86snescovj.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Pappu writes: > > its requirement "that the changes *have* to be" given back to the Free > > Software community. > Only if you want to publish (distribute) the changed software. GPL dosen't > insist that all modifications be distributed in the first place, although > it is encouraged (and a very good thing to do). I stand corrected. Also, (this is addressed to Kanti) there are many other non-copyleft licenses (http://www.fsf.org/licenses/license-list.html) which are perfectly *good* Free Software licenses from a user's perspective. Hence, it is best to keep our letter license-neutral and not mention the GPL and its requirements. - Khuzaima From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 17 05:54:47 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:24:47 +0530 Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: References: <1170.192.168.0.4.997336758.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: <20010817112447.A2145@debianut.ekmnet> [Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:52:46AM +0530] Radhakrishnan CV : > I will agree with Raju on the draft letter since we are > talking to the political leadership of a state government > who are all well aware of the values of freedom and democracy. You are patently wrong ! Yesterday the deal was signed by the West Bengal Govt. and M$. We have to talk to the political leadership about the value of *free* software and the *freedom* that it brings along, all the more. The technical issues can wait and are not that pressing :( Better still, we shall not go on talking to the political leadership; we shall go to the schools and start our work amongst the students. We shall tell them about recipes, elephants and a small peg on the ground, about the jailing of Dmitry, about Prof. Felten and more. -- GPG: 1024D/F1624A6E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 07:35:47 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:05:47 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Can we reduce number of mails? In-Reply-To: <003001c12559$b1ee8340$03000004@Chaithanya> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, mcjayan wrote: > It will be very useful if we can combine all these into a single > mail and send as one mail per day. This will help in consolidating > all articles, news and comments for a day in a single mail. Please visit http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india and select the digest mode raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 17 13:56:09 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (TUGIndia) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:26:09 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] TUG 2002 Message-ID: Please visit: http://www.tugindia.org.in/tug2002/ which has more information on the International Conference of TeX Users Group, here in Trivandrum during September 2002. Trivandrum happens to witness more events relating to Free Software.:) Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 18 04:16:05 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 18 Aug 2001 09:46:05 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Friends in unexpected places Message-ID: <868zgim29m.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> It seems we have friends in the most unexpected places: A resolution adopted by the BSNL Employees Union State formation conference in Kannur, Kerala, [also] urged the BSNL as well as the State and Central Governments to use and encourage the use of free non patented softwares with open source code as part of developing practical alternatives to colonial interests in the sector. Extremely heart warming, to say the least! I couldn't find the full story on The Hindu's web site. It's on Page 4, today's Kochi edition. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 05:34:37 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 21 Aug 2001 11:04:37 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Code Red: it can happen here Message-ID: <868zge0ydu.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Here is an example of the dangers of citing "security" *benefits* while advocating the use of Free Software: http://www.securityfocus.com/frames/?content=/templates/column.html?id=17 The marketing types from the Proprietary Software industry will easily *rubbish* our arguments based on these "hard facts." It is of paramount importance that our advocacy be based on Freedom First! -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 09:34:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (KG Kumar) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:34:56 -0000 Subject: [FSF India] (no subject) Message-ID: <200108210934.PAA17094@myiris.com> Check out Brad Kuhn's and RMS' response ("Freedom or Power" http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/08/15/free_software.html) to Tim O'Reilly's "Freedom Zero" in the O'Reilly Network (http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/526) followed by Eric Raymond on "Freedom, Power, or Confusion?" ________________________________________________________________ This message was sent using Myiris Mail For more information visit http://mail.myiris.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 09:38:34 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (KG Kumar) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:38:34 -0000 Subject: [FSF India] FS debate Message-ID: <200108210938.PAA17397@myiris.com> Check out Brad Kuhn's and RMS' response ("Freedom or Power" http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/08/15/free_software.html) to Tim O'Reilly's "Freedom Zero" in the O'Reilly Network (http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/526) followed by Eric Raymond on "Freedom, Power, or Confusion?" ________________________________________________________________ This message was sent using Myiris Mail For more information visit http://mail.myiris.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 13:59:17 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:29:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Malayalam support for GNU/Linux Message-ID: GNU/Linux system can now support Malayalam. Today a team of developers in FreeDevelopers.net (India) have successfully implemented Malayalam support in Pango and an input module for gtk which can support Hellingman's Malayalam Transliteration Schema. Jeroen Hellingman is the man who wrote a TeX package, input scheme and a free Malayalam font using Metafont language. However, the metafont sources can only create rastor fonts that are fit for usage in a TeX system, we need to write our own fonts for using in GNU/Linux. The software used are gtk+-1.3.5, pango-0.16. The sources will be released soon. A screen shot can be had at: http://www.tugindia.org.in/malayalam/malayalam.jpg Its is just in alpha stage and you can expect a few bugs. Comments are welcome. Congratulations to the young developers of FD (India). -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 15:16:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Titty Jacob) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Wired News :Linux Comes to the Big Screen Message-ID: <200108211516.IAA06089@fastbreak.hotwired.com> From Wired News, available online at: http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,41536,00.html Linux Comes to the Big Screen by Michelle Delio 2:00 a.m. Feb. 1, 2001 PST Linux is more than just an alternative operating system. It's also a culture with its own ethics, gods, myths and heroes. A new film, Revolution O.S., explores the human side of the open source and free software movements, telling the inside story of the hackers and programmers rebelling against the corporate machine. Revolution O.S. also depicts the culture of the open source movement by documenting the Installfest parties where people can bring their computers to get free, expert Linux tech support, and the Refund Day protest marches, where Linux users demand reimbursement of the extra fees that get tacked onto the purchase price of new computers for pre-installed Microsoft applications. Revolution O.S. was made by J.T.S. Moore, who was totally unfamiliar with the open source community when he started the project. "It wasn't my idea," Moore said. "One day in June 1999, I was talking on the phone to a good friend from Stanford, Doug Bone. He had seen my various films and videos over the years, and out of the blue, he jokingly suggested I make a documentary about the history of Linux." Moore looked into it and decided there was a great tale to be told about the people behind the software, a story rich with colorful personalities, creation and conflicts. In an attempt to reflect the complicated culture he captured in his project, Moore bills Revolution O.S. as an "epic movie," and said that his one regret was that he didn't have enough money to hire Charlton Heston to narrate the film. "Charlton Heston is a national treasure," Moore said. "I think any man who had the vision to star in Planet of the Apes, Omega Man and Soylent Green deserves respect. The bottom line is that if you love individual liberty you have to admire Charlton Heston." Not that the movie needs Heston to establish itself as a bona fide epic, said Moore, because at its core, "the open source movement is about hundreds of thousands of hackers and programmers around the world trying to throw off the yoke of the most powerful corporation on Earth." "If that's not epic, I don't know what is." To capture what he saw as the nature of open source's ideas and struggle, Moore worked with the old Hollywood epic format of anamorphic 35mm film (Cinemascope). Most documentaries are shot in a square format to fit TV screens, but Revolution O.S. is shot in the wide, rectangle format of the movie theater. Moore chose to work with film because "despite the delusional hype of the digital video community," he believes that 35mm film is superior to DV, at least for the intermediate future. "Also, shooting in DV breeds bad habits and yields an inferior image," Moore said. "Filmmakers shooting in DV tend to shoot staggering amounts of footage because it's cheap -- not because it's necessary. Ultimately, DV will probably trump 35mm film, but I will wait to use the format until it is undeniably better in terms of quality." "Don't get me wrong, no one is gonna mistake my cinematography in Revolution O.S. for a slick Hollywood film, but at least it doesn't have the amateur porno aesthetic of DV." The 90-minute film begins with Richard Stallman's quest to create a free operating system. It then follows the movement through its two decades-long evolution in interviews with Stallman, Linus Torvalds, Eric Raymond (author of The Cathedral and The Bazaar), Bruce Perens, (author of the Open Source Definition), Brian Behlendorf (leader of the Apache Web server project), Michael Tiemann (founder of the first open source company) and Larry Augustin (founder of VA Linux Systems). Moore has worked as a screenwriter for Disney and has had his work appear at the Telluride Film Festival and on the Encore cable channel. Revolution O.S. is his first feature-length documentary and, Moore said, it was the most challenging creative project. He wrote, directed, produced, photographed, and edited Revolution O.S. At the end of the project Moore found he'd turned into an open source advocate –- but with some reservations. Moore thinks the open source development model is here to stay, but is not convinced it will become completely dominant. He believes that it will probably co-exist with the closed source model. Eric Raymond, in a piece of writing that is widely acknowledged to define the ethics and rational of the open source and free software community, uses two cultural structures, the cathedral and the bazaar as a metaphor to describe the virtues of open source. Comparing the isolated model of the cathedral with the "babbling complexity" of the bazaar, Raymond makes a case for the seemingly chaotic marketplace as the cornerstone of a stable and resourceful economy and society. But Moore also sees in Raymond's metaphor an example of the virtue of the closed source model. "While bazaars are vibrant, fast-paced, evolving environments, a cathedral can be a stunningly beautiful creation of enduring purpose that lasts 1,000 years. As someone who approaches intellectual property rights from the artistic side, the cathedral model has its appeal," Moore said. Moore thinks the biggest threat to the success of the open source movement is piracy, not Microsoft. "If the voluntary ideals of the open source movement are further corrupted by a subculture of intellectual property theft, then the whole movement will be tainted. The owners of intellectual property will continue to fight the movement rather than cooperate with it." Moore believes that while many are convinced open source will give rise to new business models based on service and a culture of celebrity, the creators of intellectual property should have the option to participate in these new business models rather than being forced into "a communist manner because some people figure that if they can copy something then it's fair game to steal it." Revolution O.S. will be sneak-previewed Thursday night at Manhattan's AMC Empire 25 Theater, at 8:30. Those attending LinuxWorld this week can pick up tickets at the OSDN booth (#3000) in the dot-org pavilion. The first public screening of the film will be at the SXSW Film Festival in Austin, Texas, on March 12. Moore said people who would like to see the film should feel free to call "and pester" film distributors such as Miramax, Lions Gate in Los Angeles, and Cowboy Booking International in New York. "If enough people say they want to see the film, maybe they will distribute it," Moore said. Moore also noted that most of the film was financed via his Visa card. "So, if anyone wants to buy the film and get me out of debt, know that I will entertain any reasonable offer," he said, in true open source spirit. Related Wired Links: Pirates Beware: We're Watching Jan. 3, 2001 Pirates Beware: We're Watching Jan. 3, 2001 Pirates Beware: We're Watching Jan. 3, 2001 Proud to Represent Hackers Oct. 19, 2000 Africa: The Linux Continent? Sep. 22, 2000 Africa: The Linux Continent? Sep. 22, 2000 Copyright (C) 1994-2001 Wired Digital Inc. All rights reserved. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 17:53:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Anil Kumar) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Malayalam support for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Awesome! Congratulations to the team. Radi, why don't you reveal the names of the people worked on it? Anil On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Radhakrishnan CV wrote: > > GNU/Linux system can now support Malayalam. > > Today a team of developers in FreeDevelopers.net (India) have > successfully implemented Malayalam support in Pango and an input > module for gtk which can support Hellingman's Malayalam > Transliteration Schema. Jeroen Hellingman is the man who wrote a TeX > package, input scheme and a free Malayalam font using Metafont > language. However, the metafont sources can only create rastor fonts > that are fit for usage in a TeX system, we need to write our own > fonts for using in GNU/Linux. > > The software used are gtk+-1.3.5, pango-0.16. The sources will be > released soon. A screen shot can be had at: > > http://www.tugindia.org.in/malayalam/malayalam.jpg > > Its is just in alpha stage and you can expect a few bugs. Comments > are welcome. > > Congratulations to the young developers of FD (India). > > -- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 17:22:19 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:52:19 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Malayalam support for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Radhakrishnan CV wrote: > Today a team of developers in FreeDevelopers.net (India) have > successfully implemented Malayalam support in Pango and an input > module for gtk which can support Hellingman's Malayalam > Transliteration Schema. This is a great news! Congratulations to all involved!! raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 20 19:48:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 01:18:00 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Education - success and failure Message-ID: Hi, here are ywo links, one at Fort Collins, Colorado, where they are going to install GNU/Linux, interestingly managed remotely by parents and local user group. http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,45862,00.html Next is the news that Mexican schools are embracing Windows. It is a must read to see why an ambitious experiment failed and what it can teach us http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,45737,00.html As an aside, Linux for schools project is at http://www.lfsp.org/ raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 00:00:15 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Loic Dachary) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:00:15 +0200 Subject: [FSF India] FSF France activity report Message-ID: <15234.62991.83780.393060@dachary.org> Hi, The FSF France activity report for June-July-August has just been published. You can read it at: http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-08-20-01.en.html FSF France activity report The [1]FSF Europe presence in France exists since April 12 2001, and produced an [2]activity report covering April and May 2001. This report covers June, July and August 2001. If some subjects are obscure, you can get back to the previous report to better understand them. We took care to keep the same headlines to ease cross reference. During those three months we established many contacts, informally or on actual actions, with Free Software organization or individuals around the world. All of them were possible thanks to APRIL (national), FSF (international) and FSF Europe (European). Our actions can now extend to Portugal, Spain, Italy, United Kingdom, Luxembourg, Sweden, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, Denmark, South Africa, Japan, China, Hungaria, Czech Republic, India, Korea, Mexico, United States and Canada. We attended to events, the most important being [3]LSM and produced a sustained advocacy effort coordinated with other organizations. Actions previously engaged (Savannah, Savannah and Europe, freedoms, GPL translation, GNU information, Technopole Logiciel Libre) made significant progress. New actions were also started (patents, education, science, electronic voting, press review, GNU and Debian), most of them mainly undertaken by associate organizations. Our involvement in the GNU project grew with contributions to the web standards, the fact that the machine is now used as a secondary DNS for the gnu.org domain, evaluation of candidate GNU packages and heavy contribution to the maintainance and evolution of [4]Savannah. We also benefit from the infrastructure of the GNU project since our domain, mailing lists, CVS tree etc. are hosted on other GNU machines. Political and legal actions are also doing fine since we had opportunities to stress the importance of legal protection of Free Software, met with government officials occasionally. To be completely honest we cannot really claim a noteworthy achivement on this front. Last but not least, it is now established that FSF France activity is ruled by a steady flow of volunteers, contributing their time in occasional burst and happy enthusiasm. Around ten volunteers motivated themselves to fight for Free Software with us in the past three months. This may seem very few people and yet we achieved to do a significant amount of work. Nowadays every good will counts and your action can really make the difference, as long as you can spare some time to drink a beer or relax between two sessions. We want to keep going in the long term and this requires a bit of fun from time to time. On cooperation The collaborative spirit described in the [5]previous report is certainly our most pro-eminent achievement. Our motto could be that we don't undertake actions alone. It is better not to undertake an action if we fail to actually cooperate with Free Software movement people and organizations already involved. Although this spirit makes sense in writing it requires a significant amount of effort. The syndrome of replicating effort does not only apply to software. Organizations also have a natural tendency to undertake new projects before searching for similar efforts, before actually engaging a dialog with people involved, before trying everything to cooperate. The bandwidth of the brain is significantly higher than the bandwidth of the mail. If all the dialog needed to start a new project occurs in the brain of a single person, the project will take off rapidly, the first version will be available fast and bring some results within days. When you extend the dialog to other people and organizations, it gets significantly slower at first. Only later does it become faster and stronger. Yes, union is a force but it works slower and is not fit for the impatient. A fairly good example is our involvement in the infrastructure of the GNU project. From the beginning we started with the idea that all our technical infrastructure should use and contribute to the infrastructure of the GNU project. The advantages are pretty obvious: why run and maintain Mailman, exim, ftp server, web server, CVS when those are already available and maintained by the GNU project ? The drawbacks are also pretty obvious: understanding the infrastructure of the GNU project, contribute to it so that it fits our needs introduces a significant bootstrap delay. The machine we installed in France is now fully integrated to the GNU project, meaning that it is monitored and maintained by the GNU project. This a win for us. It also runs the secondary DNS for gnu.org domains. This is a win for the GNU project. Mailing lists and web site for FSF Europe are managed by machines in Boston. This is win for us. People involved in the system administration of the machine in France know the infrastructure of the GNU project and can contribute to the maintainance of other machines. This a win for the GNU project. This may seem an example that is of no great consequence but in our eyes it reflects the essence of cooperation. It's slower but it makes us stronger. This example is also chosen on purpose because we believe that technical heterogeneity is often the first obstacle to cooperation on non technical matters. Say, for instance, that two Free Software organizations want to share their calendars to coordinate their political actions. If they use technical tools that are significantly different it may prove inconvenient for them to actually do it. We are not saying that it is a major problem, we are not saying that everybody should use the exact same tools or nothing. We only acknowledge that cooperation on a technical infrastructure is a win/win situation that also removes an obstacle for cooperation on non technical matters. Given the fact that we have scarce resources at all time, there is no reason to discard this advantage. Projects [6]Translation of the GNU GPL in French ([7]previous report). Interviews of [8]Mélanie Clément-Fontaine (french, 19 May 2001), and [9]Benjamin Drieu (french, 17 May 2001) about the translation of the GNU GPL were conducted to keep people informed of the progress made so far. Till Jaeger and Axel Metzger, two German lawyers in contact with the FSF Europe are also following and participating to this project. They are working on launching a similar effort in their country. During the [10]Libre Software Meeting in Bordeaux, Eben Moglen came to express his vision of the future of the GPL. A workshop involving Mélanie Clément Fontaine, Eben Moglen, Bradley M. Kuhn, Anne Østergaard and around twenty people interested in the subject allowed to clarify very important points. Eben Moglen stressed the fact that it is important that the translation matches the following constraints: + It must not be used as a legally binding license, it must remain informative, the English version being the only one that has a legal force. + It must not be bound to contract law Volunteers: Mélanie Clément-Fontaine, Benjamin Drieu, Frédéric Couchet, Olivier Berger, Sebastien Blondeel, Loïc Dachary, Till Jaeger, Axel Metzger. [11]Patents APRIL (FSFE associate organization) launched a call for action to encourage people to act against patents. They propose specific actions and provide all the material needed to strongly react against the report given to the french government that is in favor of software patents. Late June, Richard M. Stallman was in Paris and proposed an idea for a [12]program against software patents to Jacques Le Marois (CEO of Mandrake). On the subject of patents we follow the lead of APRIL and AFUL. Volunteers: Frédéric Couchet, Jérôme Dominguez. [13]The four freedoms ([14]previous report) A steady flow of people are participating. Volunteers: Raphaël Rousseau, Loïc Dachary. [15]Education Hilaire Fernandes and other volunteers joined the GNU project and created the [16]education section of the GNU project. They established contact with Canadian and Chinese activists involved in providing Free Software for educational purposes. Hilaire published an [17]essay (in french) about Free Software and education. Verbatim copy is permitted and encouraged. It also contains a detailed history of the Free Software movement. On the subject of education we follow the lead of OFSET. Many people are involved and their actions deserves an independent activity report. Volunteers: [18]savannah list [19]Science Joris Van der Hoven initiated an APRIL working group to support Free Software in science. He works for a french university himself and advocates that software made while conducting a research financed by the government should be released as Free Software. The very spirit of research does not fit well with the restrictions imposed by proprietary licenses. Besides, citizens are not too happy when they have to finance the research and buy the product when it is released. A list was created ([20]fsfe-france-sci@gnu.org) to discuss this subject. Volunteers: Joris Van der Hoven, Gilles Veillon, Jeremy Nestel, Jérôme Pansanel [21]Community Positioning System (Coposys). Olivier Berger [22]proposed a project to visualize Free Software friends around the globe. Cyril Bouthors [23]implemented and installed a first version and hundreds of people registered from all over the world. Volunteers: Cyril Bouthors, Olivier Berger. [24]Electronic Voting An information page on electronic voting issues was produced to highlight the importance of Free Software in these matter. We do not have the ambition to spend time to try to solve this enormous problem at present. We merely keep in touch with french people interested in the subject and store information. Volunteers: Olivier Berger, Loïc Dachary. [25]Press Review Nicole Ciry and Gilles Veillon launched the project of gathering french articles about Free Software. They produced a methodology, explained it in a web page and gather a copy of the first articles. Those articles are sent once a month to the FSF in Boston and the first shipment was made early July. Volunteers: Nicole Ciry, Gilles Veillon. GNU project information relay (was GNU help desk) ([26]previous report) In the previous report this was listed as GNU help desk which was kind of inaccurate. The proximity of french people involved in the GNU project makes it easier for other french people to get involved in the GNU project, in a way or another. Some developers come to us for various points related to the GNU project: + A software they wrote is being evaluated for inclusion in the GNU project. These requests are handled thru [27]the fsfe-eval@gnu.org mailing list. + They wrote a software and wonder what it means to become part of the GNU project. + They would like to help in the system administration of the GNU project. + They have an idea to improve the infrastructure of the GNU project. We had many contacts are related to these points. Here are the two most pro-eminent. Loïc Dachary got involved in the evaluation of a software that wanted to become part of the GNU project ([28]phpGroupWare). It was the occasion for him to get practical experience of this process in order to better answer questions. A pretty [29]long thread regarding the rationale of the evaluation process and other issues related to GNU was launched by Denis Barbier. His critic views and comparisons with the Debian process are very valuable, specially since he is not a member of the GNU project. To be completely honest no visible modifications of the GNU project are a direct consequence of this discussion. Mainly because Loïc Dachary is postponing this for no other reason than lack of time. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary. GNU and Debian French people involved in the GNU, Debian and FreeBSD project [30]met to drink a beer and share their experiences. This was a chance to know each other and discover possible cooperation grounds. No report of this meeting is available, unfortunately. We had another opportunity to meet and discuss during the [31]LSM since the [32]Debian conference 1 was hosted by LSM. As a direct consequence of these talks, some concrete things happened. That may not be all, but that is what we are aware of. + Loïc Dachary who is a [33]member of the GNU project also became a [34]Debian developer + Igor Genibel who is a [35]Debian developer also became a [36]member of the GNU project. + Martin Michlmayr, a leading force of the [37]Debian QA group (re)joined the [38]GNU project to improve the QA of GNU with the help of the Debian tools. Of course we discussed a lot about the philosophical issues that keep the GNU and Debian organizations apart. The GNU project would like to see the explicit support of non free software removed from the Debian social contract and identification of the software packages in the main part of Debian that do not qualify as Free Software according to GNU. Solving these issues is an on-going effort on both sides. The Debian community also has some claims for the GNU project and [39]Denis Barbier voiced some of them. Volunteers: Raphaël Rousseau, Loïc Dachary, Olivier Berger. [40]Technopole Logiciel Libre ([41]previous report) Frédéric Couchet maintains good relationships with the Technopole Logiciel Libre. A result of this cooperation was the interview of Philippe Carpentier on Internet actu video newspaper. The Technopole Logiciel Libre was also invited to [42]LSM where Philippe Carpentier made a speech to explain the goals and philosophy of the project. Philippe Carpentier proposed to launch a European contest for Free Software and is working on this idea with Frédéric Couchet. Volunteers: Frédéric Couchet, Loïc Dachary, Philippe Carpentier, Pierre Jarret [43]Savannah and Europe: CoopX ([44]previous report) The contacts we had with hosting platforms similar to [45]Savannah in France triggered the creation of a working group called [46]CoopX. The goal of this working group is to define an interchange format between hosting platforms. [47]SourceForge, [48]phpGroupWare joined the working group shortly after its creation. CoopX was also pleased to welcome [49]TuxFamily, a cooperatively run hosting facility run by french volunteers. Although we are a founding member of CoopX, the project itself is neither hosted nor ruled by us. It is a strictly cooperative effort and every group willing to participate actively is welcome. Even non free software groups, as long as the format is decided cooperatively and released under a license that has the same qualities as the GNU FDL. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary, Christian Bac, Samuel Tardieu, Dan Kuykendall, Tim Perdue and many others. Links with Free Software organizations In the network of Free Software organizations we actively worked to establish contacts in order to be able to actually do things in a coordinated way. The ideal situation would be that each organization in a given geographical location is able quickly establish contact with any other organization over the world for a given action related to education, software development or political issues. The following list is a map of the network involving at least one person from FSF France or APRIL. * [50]FSF. * [51]FSF Europe. * [52]FSF Canada. * [53]FSF India. * [54]FSF China. * FSF Japan. * [55]AFSM. * [56]GNU Spain. * [57]ABUL. * [58]ALDIL. * [59]ALL. * [60]AGIL. * [61]Associazione Software Libero. * [62]AAUL. At present we cannot claim any world wide coordinated action but we sincerely hope it will happen, on the subject of patents for instance. Do you want to take the lead ?-) FSF France is tightly bound to APRIL and we had four meetings in the past three months. Two meeting reports are available. * [63]July 23 2001 * [64]June 12 2001 A Free Software organization ([65]AGIL) is being created in Portugal. A lot of discussions with APRIL were engaged to share their experience. A similar dialog is being established with Masayuki Ida to create a Free Software organization in Japan. Masayuki Ida will be visiting France in October and he wants to meet with APRIL activists on this subject. Matthias Saou, former president of the french organization ALDIL moved to Spain recently and agreed to act as a liaison with Jose Marchesi and GNU Spain. GNU project ([66]previous report) [67]Usenix award During the 2001 Usenix conference in Boston, Robert Chassel received an award in the name of all the contributors to the GNU project. We are proud to broadcast this award to all the people who contributed to the GNU project thru FSF France recently, by installing the first machine of the GNU project outside the US (fr.fsf.org) or by contributing to the hardware upgrade of Savannah (savannah.gnu.org). [68]Sysadmin fr.fsf.org Rodolphe Quiedeville, Cedric Valignat and Jean-Louis Bergamot are also doing occasional system administration on the GNU machine in France and were very efficient when handling a minor security alert. Cedric is now taking care of the Internet connection of the GNU machine in France and is in contact with Joel N Weber II for this purpose. Volunteers: Rodolphe Quiedeville, Cedric Valignat, Jean-Louis Bergamot, Loïc Dachary, Joel N. Weber II, Frédéric Couchet. [69]Savannah ([70]previous report) The [71]installation of the new hardware allowed Savannah to grow. It is now serving more than 200 projects and around 1 500 members joined it. The most important event is that Savannah is now open to Free Software projects that do not (yet ;-) joined the GNU project. This allows candidate packages to the GNU project to develop and grow while going thru the application process. At present 87 such projects are hosted on Savannah. Now that phpGroupWare is dubbed a GNU package, the perspective of migrating the software used to run Savannah under phpGroupWare is more likely to become a reality. At present, there is no concrete plan in this direction but it is actively discussed. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary, Jaime Villate, Guillaume Morin, Joel N. Weber II, Mark H. Weaver. [72]GNU Search As of today the [73]GNU search team was created to maintain and improve the search facility of the GNU project. Cyril Bouthors, Igor Genibel and Helios de Creisquer launched this project. They started as volunteer system administrators of the GNU machine in France (fr.fsf.org). By doing simple tasks in this context they became familiar with the GNU project and proposed to become more commited to the infrastructure. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary, Cyril Bouthors, Igor Genibel, Helios de Creisquer. [74]GNU DNS Joel N. Weber II monitored the fr.fsf.org machine during a few weeks and found that it could do a reasonable secondary name server for the gnu.org domain. He installed it about a month ago and it's running fine. Should the north American continent disappear the domain will still be resolved :-} Volunteers: Joel N. Weber II, Loïc Dachary, Cyril Bouthors. Events and advocacy We would like to acknowledge the countless advocacy efforts made by people tuned on the [75]FSF France mailing list. All of them would deserve an entry in this report, laziness is the only reason why they do not show. We miss some bits such as interviews (Europe II Bordeaux for instance) we never had a chance to listen. If you heard about them, please [76]send us a note. [77]Microsoft FUD ([78]previous report) We relayed press releases. RMS speech was translated and broadcasted. We did not do anything significant at the national level. Unisys studies Free Software ([79]previous report) Unisys politely dismissed our help proposal to write the report, although they invited us to feed them with data. That was not what we wanted. Richard M. Stallman suggested that the best course of action would be to publish an article explaining why the study conducted by Unisys could be biased. Nobody took the task and the report is probably finished by now. We failed on this advocacy issue. BBC World BBC World wanted to interview a Free Software advocate for a television show in London. We proposed that Phil Hands speak in our name. A short time frame did not leave much room for cooperation and it turned out that the journalist really wanted a confrontation between the proprietary world and the Free Software world. At present it is still unclear what the result will be. If you ever see the show, let us know. Volunteers: Phil Hands, Richard M. Stallman, Frédéric Couchet, Loïc Dachary. [80]Le Journal du Net ([81]previous report) This well known french online newspaper changed their category entitled Open Source to Logiciel Libre. We are not entirely happy about the accuracy of their articles but they show a good will that we find remarkable. [82]FAQ hardware producers Marc-Aurèle Darche and Philippe Coulonges wrote a FAQ to inform hardware producers about the advantages of Free Software drivers. This is the first work that involves a cooperation between APRIL, AFUL and FSF France. Marc-Aurèle Darche deserves all the credit for making this joint effort a reality. Although FSF France will not endorse the document produced because it partially advocates for the Open Source movement, working on it allowed us to contribute to the ideas related to Free Software. We will keep the draft directory alive even after the release of the FAQ to show how it evolved. In my eyes it is a nice example of the fundamental difference between the Open Source movement and the Free Software movement. Some people claim Free Software and Open Source are two words on top of the same movement ? Check the [83]first version of the document, rather Open Source style and the [84]second version proposed, more Free Software style. You will see a visible difference in the spirit and very few differences in the wording. Volunteers: Marc-Aurèle Darche, Philippe Coulonges. [85]DCSSI and GNU PG The french government defines a list of software accredited to provide encryption. During LSM Werner Koch asked for volunteers to register GNUPG. Some people show interest to do that but the action did not start yet. [86]CEENET Sebastien Blondeel is attending CEENET in Hungaria (August 20). He will bring goodies from APRIL and FSF Europe and spread the word in our name. He will meet Shooby Ban who is potentially interested in launching a Free Software dedicated organization. People attending CEENET are not specifically interested in Free Software, that makes his mission even more interesting. Volunteers: Sebastien Blondeel. [87]Unesco We engaged a discussion with Unesco on the subject of their Free Software portal because we feel that its content is problematic in many ways. The people are responsive and we sent them a proposal to replace the license page. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary. [88]SourceForge and VA Linux We are helping VA Linux to produce a copyright assignment form for SourceForge authors. The experience of the FSF in this matter is valuable. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary. [89]Propriété intellectuelle , Copyright, Brevets, logiciels libres A special issue of the french magazine MULTITUDE was published on the subject of copyright, patents and free software. It features articles from Richard M. Stallman and Eben Moglen and many other Free Software advocates. Frédéric Couchet and Benjamin Drieu were very involved in making this special issue a reality. Volunteers: Frédéric Couchet, Benjamin Drieu. [90]Libre Software Meeting The event was far too rich to summarize in this report. To our knowledge it is the only event in the world exclusively dedicated to Free Software and organized only by volunteers. Hundreds of users and developers from all around the world attended this event. When compared to events like LinuxWord where at least half the people and organizations present are indeed interested or involved in non free software, it makes a huge difference. Some [91]pictures were taken for the record. Next year event will be organized together with the FSF France, with [92]technical help from the GNU project. We had the opportunity to [93]meet people involved in Free Software organizations from all over the world. Frédéric Couchet and Carl W. Vilbrandt organized and participated to the [94]Law, Economy, Politic and libre software session. Frédéric Couchet introduced the FSF Europe to the audience in a one hour speech. Loïc Dachary was an informal spoke-person of the [95]AFSM during the [96]AAUL meeting. Loïc Dachary shortly spoke about Savannah during the [97]Libre Software for Communication session. The FSF France actively participated to the discussions of the [98]APRIL members Convention. Jaime Villate also attended the event in the name of the future Free Software organization (AGIL will be the name) that is being created in Portugal. INJEP INJEP is launching courses for administrations and non profit organizations in France. These courses are co-financed by the government and cost 500 F for one day. Benjamin Drieu and Jeremy Nestel did some work on a three days course on Free Software at the initiation level. Although not certain yet, this can lead to a cheap way for people to be introduced to the Free Software tools. This project is at a very early stage and volunteers are very needed. Volunteers: Jeremy Nestel, Benjamin Drieu, Frédéric Couchet. Information infrastructure [99]FSF Europe migration The [100]FSF Europe web was migrated to the france.fsfeurope.org machine. This was mainly done to ease the maintainance process of the web and increase the page generation rate without risking to overload the gnudist.gnu.org machine which is already hosting the [101]GNU web site. Volunteers: Frédéric Couchet, Loïc Dachary Contact Database ([102]previous report) This area was rather neglected and did not progress much. The situation improved a little since Bradley M. Kuhn explained in detail what we would need and made contacts with Dan Kuykendall on this subject. We also discovered that XML Vcard was published earlier this year by W3C and this will definitely be the format on which we will be working. Volunteers: Bradley M. Kuhn, Loïc Dachary. [103]Web standards A script repository was created so that directories on various GNU machines handling web sites can use them. The first script to enter the arena is a symbolic link builder for CVS HTML pages. The task of improving the web standards is enormous. However, it is a very rewarding since it brings results rapidly. A rather unexpected improvement comes from [104]the hardware FAQ. The authors use the technical infrastructure of the GNU project to publish their drafts. Since the source format is DocBook, we had some interesting exchanges on formating issues. It appears that the machine fr.fsf.org now has a proper set of software to produce output from DocBook sources. Since there also exist a translator from DocBook to texinfo, one might be tempted to write DocBook documents from now on. This is food for thought, there are many issues to consider, one of which being the relatively immature state of the Free Software DocBook formating tools. Volunteers: Jaime Villate, Paul Vischer, Loïc Dachary, Richard M. Stallman, Marc-Aurèle Darche [105]Audio and video repository A large audio and video repository was created. The primary purpose is to store the FSF Award 2000 video file (1.2Gb) and 400Mb audio files. There is a total of 22Gb available. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary [106]News channel The RSS based news channel of FSF France is available on FSF Europe. Olivier Berger enhanced it to display only the latest news on the front page and all the archives in the news subdirectory. They are now dispatched on a daily basis by mail on the [107]fsfe-newsfr-en@gnu.org and [108]fsfe-newsfr-fr@gnu.org mailing-lists (resp. in english, and in french). This allows people interested in Free Software movement to keep informed of FSF France activity. To subscribe to this mailing-list, [109]send a mail to fsfe-newsfr-en-request@gnu.org with the subject "subscribe" Volunteers: Olivier Berger, Loïc Dachary Administrativia [110]Donations ([111]previous report) We did not chase donations and (what a surprise ;-) nobody sent a cent to FSF France in the past months. The good news is that we did not spend any money either. Cyril Bouthors and Noémie Roche [112]worked hard on the tax deductibility issue. The papers were sent to the administration and we are waiting for their answer. Volunteers: Olivier Berger, Raphaël Rousseau, Frédéric Couchet, Loïc Dachary, Noémie Roche, Cyril Bouthors. Business Cards A new set of 200 business cards was produced for future events. Volunteers: Frédéric Couchet [113]Loïc Dachary Updated: $Date: 2001/08/21 23:47:22 $ $Author: loic $ References 1. http://france.fsfeurope.org/ 2. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html 3. http://lsm.abul.org/ 4. http://savannah.gnu.org/ 5. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html 6. http://france.fsfeurope.org/gpl/ 7. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#gplfrench 8. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-17-01.fr.html 9. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-15-01.fr.html 10. http://lsm.abul.org/ 11. http://www.april.org/actions/brevets/academie.html 12. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-06-26-01.fr.html 13. http://france.fsfeurope.org/libre.en.html 14. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#freedom 15. http://www.ofset.org/ 16. http://www.gnu.org/education/ 17. http://www.ofset.org/information/papers/free-software-and-education-fr.html 18. http://savannah.gnu.org/project/memberlist.php?group_id=200 19. http://france.fsfeurope.org/science/ 20. http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-france-sci/ 21. http://france.fsfeurope.org/coposys/ 22. http://savannah.gnu.org/pm/task.php?func=detailtask&project_task_id=156&group_id=53&group_project_id=48 23. http://france.fsfeurope.org/coposys/ 24. http://france.fsfeurope.org/voting/voting.en.html 25. http://france.fsfeurope.org/collecte.en.html 26. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#gnuinfo 27. http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-eval/ 28. http://www.phpgroupware.org/ 29. http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/fsfe-france/2001-June/000694.html 30. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-06-05-01.fr.html 31. http://lsm.abul.org/ 32. http://lsm.abul.org/program/topic20/topic20.php3 33. http://www.gnu.org/people/ 34. http://nm.debian.org/nmstatus.php?email=loic%40senga.org 35. http://www.debian.org/devel/people 36. http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gnu-search/ 37. http://qa.debian.org/people.html 38. mailto:tbm@gnu.org 39. http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/fsfe-france/2001-June/000694.html 40. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-09-01.fr.html 41. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#technopole 42. http://lsm.abul.org/ 43. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-06-14-01.en.html 44. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#savannah 45. http://savannah.gnu.org/ 46. http://coopx.eu.org/ 47. http://sf.net/ 48. http://phpgroupware.org/ 49. http://www.tuxfamily.org/ 50. http://www.fsf.org/ 51. http://www.fsfeurope.org/ 52. http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfc-discuss/ 53. http://fsf.org.in/ 54. http://www.rons.net.cn/english/Links/fsf-china/ 55. http://cyberlink.idws.com/fsm/ 56. http://es.gnu.org/ 57. http://www.abul.org/ 58. http://www.aldil.org/ 59. http://www.lastjeudi.org/ 60. http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/fsfe-portugal/ 61. http://www.softwarelibero.org/ 62. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-07-05-01.en.html 63. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-07-23-01.en.html 64. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-06-12-01.fr.html 65. http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/fsfe-portugal/ 66. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#gnu 67. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-08-20-01.en.xhtml 68. http://france.fsfeurope.org/server/ 69. http://savannah.gnu.org/ 70. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#gnusavannah 71. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-28-01.en.html 72. http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gnu-search/ 73. http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gnu-search/ 74. http://france.fsfeurope.org/server/ 75. http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/fsfe-france/ 76. mailto:fsfe-france@gnu.org 77. http://www.gnu.org/events/rms-nyu-2001-transcript.txt 78. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#microsoftfud 79. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#unisys 80. http://solutions.journaldunet.com/ 81. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#journaldunet 82. http://france.fsfeurope.org/drafts/faq-constructeurs/generated-html/FAQConstructeurs.fr.html 83. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-08-20-01.en.xhtml 84. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-08-20-01.en.xhtml 85. http://www.gnupg.org/ 86. http://www.ceenet.org/ 87. http://www.unesco.org/webworld/portal_freesoft/ 88. http://sf.net/ 89. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-06-11-01.fr.html 90. http://lsm.abul.org/ 91. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-07-09-01.en.html 92. http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/lsm 93. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-07-04-01.en.html 94. http://lsm.abul.org/program/topic16/topic16.php3 95. http://cyberlink.idws.com/fsm/ 96. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-07-05-01.en.html 97. http://lsm.abul.org/program/topic05/topic05.php3 98. http://lsm.abul.org/program/topic21/topic21.php3 99. http://www.fsfeurope.org/ 100. http://www.fsfeurope.org/ 101. http://www.gnu.org/ 102. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#contact 103. http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/www/ 104. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-08-20-01.en.xhtml#faq 105. http://audio-video.gnu.org/ 106. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/ 107. http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-newsfr-en 108. http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-newsfr-fr 109. mailto:fsfe-newsfr-en-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe 110. http://france.fsfeurope.org/donations/donations.en.html 111. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#donations 112. http://savannah.gnu.org/pm/task.php?func=detailtask&project_task_id=141&group_id=53&group_project_id=37 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 05:03:21 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:33:21 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Wired News :Linux Comes to the Big Screen In-Reply-To: <200108211516.IAA06089@fastbreak.hotwired.com> References: <200108211516.IAA06089@fastbreak.hotwired.com> Message-ID: <86k7zwptye.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> tittyjacob@sify.com (Titty Jacob) writes: > From Wired News, available online at: > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,41536,00.html > Revolution O.S. was made by J.T.S. Moore, who was totally unfamiliar > with the open source community when he started the project. He is definitely, totally, completely clueless even after completing the project: > At the end of the project Moore found he'd turned into an open source > advocate -- but with some reservations. > Moore thinks the biggest threat to the success of the open source > movement is piracy, not Microsoft. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Who will save us from "open source advocates" like Mr. Moore? -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 06:54:24 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:24:24 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [Debate] On Free Software and Freedom Message-ID: Really worth reading. To my surprise, FSF appears to be on "weaker" moral ground in this debate (a rare event). For detailed reading, please visit the _Linux Today_ site. -- Raj ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Linux Today (http://www.linuxtoday.com/) "Freedom Zero" and "Freedom or Power" : Tim O'Reilly and FSF Leaders Debate. Followed by Eric Raymond on "Freedom, Power, or Confusion?" Aug 17, 2001, 17:38 UTC Tim O'Reilly: Some people might not recognize the reference to "Freedom Zero" as a takeoff on the first of Richard Stallman's four freedoms from the Free Software Definition." Bradley Kuhn and Richard M. Stallman: Tim O'Reilly says the most fundamental software freedom is: "The freedom to choose any license you want for software you write." Unstated, but clearly implied, is that one person or corporation chooses the rules to impose on everyone else. In the world that O'Reilly proposes, a few make the basic software decisions for everyone. That is power, not freedom. He should call it "powerplay zero" in contrast with our "freedom zero". O'Reilly's Response: "Bradley clearly misunderstands my article and my argument. First off, if you accept his definition of freedom as "being able to make decisions that affect mainly you" versus power as "being able to make decisions that affect others more than you", then clearly the GPL is just as much about "power" as any Microsoft license, since it is binding on all who use the software, and has the explicit goal of "world domination." Eric Raymond: Freedom, Power, or Confusion? In a reply to Tim O'Reilly, Bradley Kuhn and Richard Stallman illustrate once again why the FSF's use of the word `freedom' is ... well, I'll say "confusing", though stronger terms suggest themselves. They begin by writing "Power is being able to make decisions that affect others more than you. If we confuse power with freedom, we will fail to uphold real freedom." Thus, far I agree with them. Tim asserts that the most fundamental software freedom is the freedom to choose any license you want for the software you write. Kuhn and Stallman reply (unstated, but clearly implied) is "that one person or corporation chooses the rules to impose on everyone else." ================================================================ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 05:35:04 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Amitabh Trehan) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] FSF/GNU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010822053505.71384.qmail@web12205.mail.yahoo.com> --0-225654398-998458504=:71376 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi, are there any spare FSF-India T-shirts? Many in Delhi have shown interest in them , even reproducing them here. Amitabh ===== ######============================############# TrYinG To TaCkLe (La)TeX & Co. #####=============================############# __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ --0-225654398-998458504=:71376-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 05:49:17 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:19:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] FSF/GNU In-Reply-To: <20010822053505.71384.qmail@web12205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 at 22:35, Amitabh Trehan wrote: are there any spare FSF-India T-shirts? Unfortunately all are sold out! Many in Delhi have shown interest in them, even reproducing them here. That will be great. I can send you all the images in pdf format. TUGIndia are going to make T-Shirt for TUG 2002 soon with Duane Bibby's graphic and along with it, we shall order a few hundred pieces of FSF India T-Shirt too. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 16:07:47 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (TUGIndia) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:37:47 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] TeXLive 6 Message-ID: TeXLive version 6 has been released and can be had from Indian TeX Users Group. TeX Live CD-ROM contains ready-to-run TeX systems for GNU/Linux, most types of Unix and Windows 95/NT, and a very complete tree of fonts and macros arranged according to the standard TeX directory structure (TDS). The TeX Live CD has been developed since 1996 by collaboration between the TeX Users Group (TUG), and the TeX user groups of the the Czech Republic, France, Germany, India, Netherlands, Poland, Slovakia and the UK. The sixth edition is based on Web2c 7.3.3 and teTeX 1.0, but contains additions and extensions to both these systems. Very many packages on the CD have changed in some way since 2000, and many new ones have been added. With TeX Live, you can either run directly off the CD, or install programs to your hard disk, using a simple install program. For more details visit: http://www.tug.org/texlive.html Please write to Shan if you want to obtain TeXLive CD with a demand draft for Rs. 500 (cost+forwarding) favouring Indian TeX Users Group on any Bank in Trivandrum. Indian TeX Users Group 3rd Floor, SJP Buildings Cottons Hills, Trivandrum 695014 Tel 0471 33 7502 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 11:59:27 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:29:27 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] FEATURE: You've got mail... WAPpop proves helpful... Message-ID: INDIA-MOBILE-SOFTWARE YOU'VE GOT MAIL... WAPpop PROVES HELPFUL TO MOBILE PHONE USERS by Frederick Noronha MUMBAI -- Mobile phone users are facing an easier task to download their e-mail, thanks to the efforts of a Indian medico from the city of Nagpur who has written a freely-distributable software program called WAPpop. It is drawing hundreds of downloads each day after an upgrade to the software program which was done some weeks back. Mobile phone users have access to phone services while on move, but they need a computer in order to have a look at their e-mail. "WAPpop was written keeping the above problem in mind. So that they can have access, to have a glance on their e-mail while on move," says Dr Tarique Sani. He told this correspondent that by using a WAP (wireless-access protocol) enabled device, like a phone, PDA, or palmtops, the software he wrote -- which is called WAPpop -- can read mail from an Internet server, reply or forward mail, even delete mail and send new messages. The paedetrician-turned-software guru says he WAPpop still remains the only OpenSource software of its kind in India. It was also the first OpenSource software doing its job listed on prestigious international website Freshmeat.net when the first version was released in July 2000. Some weeks back, the software was upgraded. OpenSource is a type of specially-licensed software code that offers its users freedom to use and adapt. This form of collaboratively writing software through the efforts of volunteers worldwide has been making news, because of some excellent products it has generated. WAPpop is an WAP based email client. "Just as Hotmail is an Web based email client and can be accessed through a web browser (by going to the web site), WAPpop can be acccessed thru a WAP device accessing a WAP site which is running WAPpop. WAPpop need not be downloaded to PDAs (personal digital assistants) or other such hand-held devices. This software program is written using PHP, which is a platform-independant server-side scripting language. The OS (operating system) used by the wireless device does not come into the picture except for display. Due to this, WAPpop is best suited for the service provider for giving value-added services from their WAPsites. Recent upgrades have also been attracting attention of computer users worldwide. Says Sani: "The response has by far surpassed expectations. Before the release of second version the downloads (by persons seeking a copy of the software) had tapered down to an average of 1000 per month. The downloads for second version have been an average of 500 per day (soon after it was upgraded in end-June this year)." Sani believes that this WAP-based software could have a lot more potential if the use of WAP devices increases. Presently, he concedes, the tiny-screen and cumbersome typing procedures are a "major hurdle" for anyone wanting to use such wireless devices to access the Internet. There is also limited bandwidth available for WAP. But this could change in the near future. What prompted the paedetrician-forensic medico to take up this unusual project? Says Sani: "When we started this project WAP was a hot technology around the world. Unfortunately most of the WAP development was centered around Microsoft's ASP." But Sani himself "loves PHP", which is the OpenSource's answer to ASP and the most popular web-scripting language around the world. "I felt that I could make a mark for PHP, OpenSource and in turn myself in the WAP world and to that extent I feel this project has been a success," says he. Sani, a doctor by education having done his post graduation in Pediatrics and Forensic Medicine, opted for becoming the CTO (chief technical officer) of his own web-engineering company called SANIsoft based in the Central Indian city of Nagpur. This small firm specialise in web development using Open Source technologies mainly PHP, MySQL/PostgreSQL, Apache running on Linux and more recently running on Windows servers. Sani says modestly that he is not the "lone author of WAPpop", but two other programmers in SANIsoft, Girish Nair and Vinay Kumar, have made "significant contributions to the code". Inspite of its immense potential as a software superpower, India's contribution to OpenSource software has still been rather small. Says Sani: "I wish that it was better. It has the potential to be much better." He feels that Indian students and professionals simply don't have the spare time to contribute enough to this international volunteer-effort at generating high-quality software code. Encouragement is lacking too, but this is beginning to change as more Indian corporates behing to take to GNU/Linux, the 'free' computer operating system, he notes. (ENDS) LINK: Contact Dr Sani at tarique@sanisoft.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 17:54:21 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 22 Aug 2001 23:24:21 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] [Debate] On Free Software and Freedom In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86ofp8yo8i.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raj Singh writes: > Really worth reading. To my surprise, FSF appears to be on "weaker" moral > ground in this debate (a rare event). Dear Raj, Please enlighten us as to why *you* think we are on "weaker moral ground in this debate." Since RMS and Brad may not have the time to monitor this list, it just *might* be that others on this list may be able to debate this with you and convince you that we are, in fact, NOT on "weaker" moral grounds. Thank you. > For detailed reading, please visit > the _Linux Today_ site. > > -- Raj > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Linux Today (http://www.linuxtoday.com/) > > "Freedom Zero" and "Freedom or Power" : Tim O'Reilly and FSF Leaders > Debate. Followed by Eric Raymond on "Freedom, Power, or Confusion?" > > Aug 17, 2001, 17:38 UTC > > Tim O'Reilly: > > Some people might not recognize the reference to "Freedom Zero" as a > takeoff on the first of Richard Stallman's four freedoms from the Free > Software Definition." > > Bradley Kuhn and Richard M. Stallman: > > Tim O'Reilly says the most fundamental software freedom is: "The freedom to > choose any license you want for software you write." Unstated, but clearly > implied, is that one person or corporation chooses the rules to impose on > everyone else. In the world that O'Reilly proposes, a few make the basic > software decisions for everyone. That is power, not freedom. He should call > it "powerplay zero" in contrast with our "freedom zero". > > O'Reilly's Response: > > "Bradley clearly misunderstands my article and my argument. First off, if > you accept his definition of freedom as "being able to make decisions that > affect mainly you" versus power as "being able to make decisions that > affect others more than you", then clearly the GPL is just as much about > "power" as any Microsoft license, since it is binding on all who use the > software, and has the explicit goal of "world domination." > > Eric Raymond: Freedom, Power, or Confusion? > > In a reply to Tim O'Reilly, Bradley Kuhn and Richard Stallman illustrate > once again why the FSF's use of the word `freedom' is ... well, I'll say > "confusing", though stronger terms suggest themselves. > > They begin by writing "Power is being able to make decisions that affect > others more than you. If we confuse power with freedom, we will fail to > uphold real freedom." Thus, far I agree with them. > > Tim asserts that the most fundamental software freedom is the freedom to > choose any license you want for the software you write. Kuhn and Stallman > reply (unstated, but clearly implied) is "that one person or corporation > chooses the rules to impose on everyone else." > > ================================================================ > > _______________________________________________ > http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india > > -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 02:39:03 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:09:03 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [Gnu-India]Re: GNU Project List In-Reply-To: <20010823020753.61760.qmail@web11703.mail.yahoo.com> References: <15236.4321.666981.264477@ab.cdclinux.com> <20010823020753.61760.qmail@web11703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15236.27847.849342.975093@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Naheed Here you go for Netfilter Port to GNU/Hurd Project ABOUT NETFILTER: ================ Netfilter is just a framework for building NAT and filtering. Netfilter base code hooks into the protocol stack at various spots. For example if you take TCP/IP stack, there are 5 hooks * LOCAL IN Packets for this(local) machine * LOCAL OUT Packets from this machine * PRE-ROUTING Packets entering this machine from network. It might be for this machine or routed thru this machine * POST-ROUTING Packets leaving this machine. May be from this machine or a packet routed thru this machine. * FORWARDING Packets routed thru ur machine. So using these hooks it provides a framework to register tables and modules. Tables contains rules passed from user space thru iptables command. These rules contain typically a match and a target. When ever a packet enters the Netfilter framework, it is passed thru these rules. If a packet is matched with a rule ,it will be passwd to the target module. The target module can decide the fate of the packet. ENVIRONMENT: ============ A real battle ground for Netfilter environment will be * a network with atleast 100+ users connected to other intranet/internet * Netfilter box with 2.4.x kernel with 2 ethernet cards * and lot of time to experiment. For a developer: Even if you don't have such an env, you can still do ur development on a single machine. You can test simple rules on loopback (127.0.0.1). You are just doing porting. Netfilter is already a proven implementation. After porting, there are users to help us in testing. FOR DEVELOPER: ============== We are very very lucky :) Because The Hurd's TCP/IP stack is port(copied:) from Linux 2.2 kernel. So it shouldn't be difficult for us to port Netfilter to Hurd. For all these steps, you have to constantly work with me. Don't ever hesitate to ask even the stupidest question. You never know how many others have the same question. Next step is: Step 1* Get urself familiarized with Netfilter usage Read NAT-HowTo and Filtering-HowTo Step 2* OK, Now you are ready for hacking Read Netfilter-Hackers Guide. Understand the design/implementation of Netfilter. Step 3* Browse the source code of TCP/IP stack and NetFilter. There are other guides of Rusty Russell. They are Kernel hackers guide and Kernel Locking guide. They are not necessary. Because in Hurd, we do it in user space. Its easy. I expect lot of mails from you here after. I've no plans for LA, But I will be in Fremont(CA) next week most probably. Best Regards ab Naheed Vora writes: > Hi ab, > I am happy to have your permission as well as sureity > of guidance for the project. I met the professor today > and he is ready to help me through. I am not sure if I > will take as my credits or else as funtime project, > but I am seriously looking forward to work on this > project. The prof. will sit along with me and discuss > the framework and architecture of Netfilter translator > may be next week. I will keep you updated with the > progress and solicit your help whenever required. > > Do let me know if you are planning to come to LA > during your visit to US. We can meet if you happen to > come to LA, > > C ya, > Bye, > Naheed -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 04:14:27 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 23 Aug 2001 09:44:27 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] [Debate] On Free Software and Freedom In-Reply-To: <86ofp8yo8i.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> References: <86ofp8yo8i.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <86ae0r9zvg.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> klak@giasbm01.vsnl.net.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) writes: > Raj Singh writes: > > > Really worth reading. To my surprise, FSF appears to be on "weaker" moral > > ground in this debate (a rare event). > > Dear Raj, > > Please enlighten us as to why *you* think we are on "weaker moral > ground in this debate." > > Since RMS and Brad may not have the time to monitor this list, it just > *might* be that others on this list may be able to debate this with > you and convince you that we are, in fact, NOT on "weaker" moral grounds. I apologize for sounding so "combative!" My feeble excuse is that it was really late late in the night when I wrote that. Sorry. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 06:31:11 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (fsf-india@gnu.org.in) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:01:11 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Free Software related Projects in India Message-ID: <20010823120111.A525@orion> Hi friends, FSF India had informed Government of West Bengal its opinion on Governments recent initiative to join hands with proprietary software companies. It would be nice if some one from West Bengal could follow up the issue and let us know what is going on. We need to make a catalogue of various Free Software related projects going on in India(not only the software development project, but relating to Freedom) and people and organisations providing services on Free Software. Any comments ? Arun. BTW Anand Babu, I've seen a list of projects sent by you to GNU-India list. Can you forward the same to this list. We will add them to www.gnu.org.in. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 13:01:57 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:31:57 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Malayalam support for GNU/Linux References: Message-ID: <3B84FEC5.E9224EB2@ti.com> Radhakrishnan CV wrote: > > The software used are gtk+-1.3.5, pango-0.16. The sources will be > released soon. A screen shot can be had at: > > http://www.tugindia.org.in/malayalam/malayalam.jpg > > Its is just in alpha stage and you can expect a few bugs. Comments > are welcome. That's really great!!! Congratulations to the team. By the way, I came accross a page, which says that NCST is doing a project called "Localisation of 'Linux'". See this page for details http://www.tdil.gov.in/ongoing_proj.html -- Ramakrishnan M World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 13:28:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (raj kumar) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 06:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF India]GNU Project List In-Reply-To: <15236.27847.849342.975093@ab.cdclinux.com> Message-ID: <20010823132830.68157.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "M.P.Anand Babu" wrote: Hi ab, nice to see you again!!! I am certainly interested in this. > Next step is: > Step 1* Get urself familiarized with Netfilter usage > Read NAT-HowTo and Filtering-HowTo > Step 2* OK, Now you are ready for hacking > Read Netfilter-Hackers Guide. > Understand the design/implementation of > Netfilter. > Step 3* Browse the source code of TCP/IP stack > and NetFilter. Once upon a time I had hacked together a masq module for H.323 for 2.0.36 kernel and I used to follow the netfilter list for quite some time. But I am quite new to hurd developement. I also do not know how much time I can spend for this. But I will certainly try to contribute some thing. Is there a mail list for this work? raj raj@gnu.org.in __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 18:12:53 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:42:53 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Free Software related Projects in India In-Reply-To: <20010823120111.A525@orion> References: <20010823120111.A525@orion> Message-ID: <15237.18341.982390.198278@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Arun > We need to make a catalogue of various Free Software related > projects going on in India(not only the software development project, > but relating to Freedom) and people and organisations providing > services on Free Software. > > Any comments ? This should be first step to proceed. Yes Not just software, any initiative towards Freedom. > BTW Anand Babu, I've seen a list of projects sent by you to > GNU-India list. Can you forward the same to this list. We will > add them to www.gnu.org.in. I have pasted the list along with this mail. This list is too informal to get into the website. I prefer a proper work structure before they all become official. A proper work structure will have * Project RoadMap * Project Admin/Coordinator, Team Members, Doc Writer, Release Technician ... * Atleast one tar ball release (atleast beta) * Documentation * GNU GPL/Equivalent License By doing this way it becomes easier for others to join the team and easily contribute either by coding or testing. All this step is required to make the first official release. Till that stage mailing list will to. I use sourceforge.net as by /tmp and when 0.1 ver is ready, I move to savannah.gnu.org This list is cutcopied from a mail. BTW lets move the gnu-india.org mailing list to FSF-I list. It takes pain to move all that 108 subscribers all of a sudden to this list. But we need to avoid duplication !! 1) GNU Messenger: by ab, Bala, Mridul Jain, Parag Mehta, Jeffrin GNU Messenger for Yahoo services with a console based geeky readline and guile interface. It started a fun project, but today its production ready. Main motivation behind the project is to spread the power of GUILE and READLINE librady. You have shown ur interest in Lisp I'm writing more about Guile here, because Guile is a dialect of Lisp and one of the most important project of GNU. Like you, we all believe that Lisp is Next Generation Language. Its going to reappear soon. Its the only answer for AI and Next Generation Computing. Guile is *Project GNU's extension language* Guile is a library designed to help programmers create flexible applications. Using Guile in an application allows programmers to write plug-ins, or modules (there are many names, but the concept is essentially the same) and users to use them to have an application fit their needs. Guile is an interpreter for the Scheme programming language, packaged as a library which can be incorporated into your programs. Your users have full access to the interpreter, so Guile itself can be extended, based on the needs of the user. The result is a scripting language tailored to your application. For more info visit http://www.gnu.org/software/guile 2) Cool Hurd Translators: Translator itself is cool concept in GNU/Hurd. Here are some translators written by college students in this list: * bzip2 translator: Ankur, Shikka and Venkat wrote this translator. This when mapped on a file, you can do bzip compressed I/O. * reverse translator: Written by Ramesh. When mapped to a file, what ever you write to it, you can read the reverse of them. * Tar file system translator: Again by Ramesh. Ramesh got the name "Tarzen" because of this TAR project. You can mount a tar file as file system using this translator. This project is still in initial stages. * Quote translator: You can map this as ur .signature, /etc/issues, /etc/motd and so on and get random quotes on the fly. Every time when you read from this file, you get random quotes from its database. 3) Visual Emacs Calculator: by Pradhap This is written in Emacs Lisp. He is currently busy with MP3 player for GNU Emacs. 4) GNU Hurd Asynchronous Message Debugger: This project is given to me by RMS. It should facilitate a mechanism to debug(record/replay) asynchronous messages between GNU Mach and GNU Hurd. 5) MiG -> CORBA: By Mridul Jain and ab MiG is obsolete interface and Mach Specific. This project replaces MiG with CORBA standards to make GNU/Hurd language independent and distributed. This is extremely big project. 6) Linux Device Drivers Emulation in Hurd Space: By ab, Bala and Mridul Emulating Linux Device Drivers in user space. GNU Mach is only a micro kernel. Santhanu Goel emulated Linux SCSI and Network drivers inside GNU Mach. But GNU Mach bloats up in size and loses the Mirco Kernel stature. But by bringing the drivers to user space we have lots of advantages like system stability, modularization ease of development/maintainability. 7) Porting Netfilter to Hurd By ab Netfilter is NAT/Firewall framework in Linux 2.4.x kernel. This should be ported to GNU Hurd/Pfinet. Hurd's TCP/IP stack is derived from Linux kernel and because of that porting Netfilter to Hurd shouldn't be difficult. 8) GNU/Hurd Distribution: By gnu-india.org team. We have stopped this project, because Philip Charles is doing it better. But still we continue the 3rd CD of this project. This CD is named "4-hackers" contains valuable documentation for GNU OS Hacking 9) GNU Geek: by Visu and Nagappan GNU Geek is GNU [G]eek [E]nabled [E]ntry [K]it Geek is a highly extensible framework for building console based data entry tools. is powered by GUILE and READLINE. -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 24 06:06:50 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:36:50 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF India]GNU Project List In-Reply-To: <20010823132830.68157.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <15236.27847.849342.975093@ab.cdclinux.com> <20010823132830.68157.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15237.61178.913208.756943@ab.cdclinux.com> Regarding Netfilter, here is the list http://us4.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/netfilter Netfilter Hompage: http://netfilter.samba.org For Netfilter->Hurd port we will have on FSF-I mailing list You can really contribute a lot to this project. Don't worry about ur limitted knowledge in Hurd. You can quickly learn them. Best Regards ab raj kumar writes: > --- "M.P.Anand Babu" wrote: > > Hi ab, nice to see you again!!! > > I am certainly interested in this. > > > Next step is: > > Step 1* Get urself familiarized with Netfilter usage > > Read NAT-HowTo and Filtering-HowTo > > Step 2* OK, Now you are ready for hacking > > Read Netfilter-Hackers Guide. > > Understand the design/implementation of > > Netfilter. > > Step 3* Browse the source code of TCP/IP stack > > and NetFilter. > > Once upon a time I had hacked together a masq module > for H.323 for 2.0.36 kernel and I used to follow the > netfilter list for quite some time. But I am quite new > to hurd developement. I also do not know how much time > I can spend for this. But I will certainly try to > contribute some thing. > > Is there a mail list for this work? > > raj > raj@gnu.org.in -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 24 10:28:29 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:58:29 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] build instructions - gnuyahoo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15238.11341.168944.143578@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Parag I have enabled moderator rights for you. Again its all yours. Do anything you want. I need some more help from you. Basically product engineering. GNUYahoo is extensible thru Scheme language with gnuyahoo bindings. We need to make some standards before we make this extension language available to the community. I will explain them in a separate mail. Parag Mehta writes: > Hi AB, > can u send me the build instructions. i hv the required lib with > me. also letme know the following : libyahoo: --------- After compiling libyahoo, I manually copy the following files manually. libyahoo.a -> /usr/lib/libyahoo.a libyahoo.h -> /usr/include/libyahoo.h libyahoo-proto.h -> /usr/include/libyahoo-proto.h This is something the libyahoo team should address. They should have "make install" support libreadline4, libreadline4-dev, libguile6, libguile6-dev -------------------------------------------------------- This installation should be straight forward. I do apt-get install . May be you will do rpm -ivh finally gnuyahoo -------- As it complies with gnu source code packaging standards all you need to do is ./configure --prefix= make make install Advanced!@% ----------- When you run gnuyahoo for first time, it will create .gnuyahoo directory in ur home. like [~/.gnuyahoo] It will also touch ~/.gnuyahoo/gnuyahoo.scm. ~/.gnuyahoo/gnuyahoo.scm is your startup file. Its optional. But ur extremely powerful. Here is my ~/.gnuyahoo/gnuyahoo.scm file ================================================== ;; [login section starts] ;; assume current userid as yahoo-id ;; (gy-set-login-id! (array-ref (getpwuid (getuid)) 0)) ;; (gy-set-login-id! "abindian") (gy-set-login-id! 'gnu_india) ;; [login section ends] ;; [password section starts] ;; set password (gy-set-password! "press-enter") ;; [password section ends] ;; history feature (define log-message (lambda (from msg) (define history-file (open-file (string-append (gy-get-config-dir) "/history/" from) "a")) (define log (string-append "[" from "] " msg "\n")) (display log history-file) (close-output-port history-file))) (add-hook! gy-msg-receive-hook log-message) (add-hook! gy-msg-send-hook log-message) ;; alias support ;; (set! gy-aliases (assoc-set! gy-aliases 'nags '(nagappanal gnu_india))) ;; (set! gy-aliases (assoc-set! gy-aliases 'bala '(balugi gnu_india))) ================================================== I have programmed my gnuyahoo to have history feature. This was done by hooking the history procedure to gy-msg-receive-hook and gy-msg-send-hook. CC-Loadable Module ------------------ You can CC yahoo messages on the fly to ur friends thru this GNUYahoo loadable CC module. This module is really simple. You can use ?load to load and unload the module ====================================================== (if (defined? 'cc-buddy) () (define cc-buddy (lambda (to msg) (and (string=? to "balugi") (gy-send-message-no-hook "nagappanal" (string-append "[To:bala, CC:] " msg))) (and (string=? to "nagappanal") (gy-send-message-no-hook "balugi" (string-append "[To:nags, CC:] " msg))) (and (string=? to "gnu_india") (gy-send-message-no-hook "gnu_india" (string-append "[To:bala, CC:] " msg)))))) (define unhooked 0) (for-each (lambda (hook-proc) (and (equal? hook-proc cc-buddy) (begin (display "Unhooking ...") (remove-hook! gy-msg-send-hook cc-buddy) (display "done") (newline) (set! unhooked 1)))) (hook->list gy-msg-send-hook)) (and (= unhooked 0) (begin (display "Hooking ...") (add-hook! gy-msg-send-hook cc-buddy) (display "done") (newline))) ====================================================== package and libguile > i hv generated a tar ball named gnuyahoo-0.1.tar.gz and uploaded it > on sf.net not yet released. how abt we releasing this and then > onwards to 1.0 which when released moves to savannah ?? Yes thats sounds workable. We will proceed that way. > awaiting release details. also if u can grant me premission to > start a ml on sf.net by setting permission to me as a moderator . done > we can than hv this kind of stuff on that ml so can hv all > virews/tips/flames etc. thre. here i feel it only happens with u & > me. :) :)) We already have two mailing lists FSF-India and GNU-India to flood ;) Ok I dumped enough on this mail to confuse all of us. Scheme extensions might look little complex to beginners, but they are extremely simple. We have to write extensive documentation to cover them all. Using this extension language you can do anything you want. Best Regards ab -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 24 16:24:18 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:54:18 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Query: FS projects by Indian programmers In-Reply-To: <15237.61178.913208.756943@ab.cdclinux.com> Message-ID: Does anyone know of interesting Free Software or GNU/Linux projects done by Indian programmers which could be written about? I'm a freelance journalist... Frederick *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Frederick Noronha | Freelance Journalist | 784 Saligao 403511 Goa India Ph [0091] 832.409490 or 832.409783 Cell 9822 12.24.36 fred@bytesforall.org *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 25 12:43:51 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:13:51 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [Gnu-India](no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15239.40327.566215.720182@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Sandeep Thanks for the encouragement. Hope to see you soon on the list. You can also see http://gnu.org.in Best Regards ab Sandeep Gopal Nijsure writes: > Namaste!! > > Today while browsing debian.org I came across gnu-india.org.. good to see > something of this sort in India. Thanks to you all, and also my best > wishes. I look forward to joining the group when I learn a bit more about > unix/linux/herd.. > > chalo > Sandeep > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnu-India mailing list > Gnu-India@gnu-india.org > http://gnu-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-india > -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 25 16:49:27 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:19:27 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] NEWS: GHAZALS ONLINE: CENTURIES-OLD POETRY GETS A LEG-UP FROM I.T. Message-ID: 'GHAZALS' ONLINE: CENTURIES-OLD POETRY GETS A LEG-UP FROM I.T. by Frederick Noronha fred@bytesforall.org MUMBAI: Modern-day powers of IT is teaming up with the age-old charm of the 'ghazal' to breathe new life and interest in these captivating poems set to music, that are widely popular in the South Asian language of Urdu. A new website just launched from the central Indian city of Nagpur called aaina-e-ghazal.com offers a trilingual dictionary of commonly used words in 'ghazals'. It is also accessible via the nagpurcity.net site. To enhance the popularity of this site and help the 'ghazals' get a wider reach, the Urdu text is written in Devnagri, the widely-used script of Hindi and other North Indian languages. Urdu is spoken by an estimated 104 million worldwide, and like Hindi have proceeded from the same Khariboli speech source from the areas sorrounding Delhi. Ghazals -- like other Indian hymns called 'Thumris' or 'Bhajans' are also -- addressed to God in terms of human love. Some trace their origins to 10th century Iran. The meanings of the words used in the Ghazals are given in English, Hindi and the regional language Marathi. Together with this, the site offers an illustrative Urdu couplet or two-lined poem (which is known as 'Sher'), according to Dr Tarique Sani. Dr Sani, a pediatrician by training who shifted over to the world of software and runs a firm called Sanisoft, is the founder of the site. Sani told IANS in an interview: "The book (of ghazals) was authored by my late parents and Dr Vinay Waikar and was in the fourth print edition when my father passed away. I designed this site as a tribute to the memory of my parents." This site is an online version of the same book but, he said, includes "a lots of enhancements, like dynamic cross-referenceing, site personalization, an ability to Romanize the Devnagri-script part and vice versa, etc." Incidentally, while undertaking this work, Dr Sani also build up a English-to-Hindi transliterator, that could give a further push to Indian language computing solutions. To render the 'ghazals' into Hindi, he was looking around for suitable software. Says he: "I was quoted Rs 250,000 for the software. I strongly felt such a basic-necessity software in a country like India should be free. So I just went ahead and designed my own and saved myself a quarter million rupees." Today, he freely distributes this software. This software Dr Sani wrote -- egged on by the peculiar needs of the site -- is a Roman-script to Devnagri transliterator. It allows you to type using English alphabets and they are converted to Devnagri equivalent. In a country like India where local-language computing is a pressing need, such products could act as a useful bridge to a solution. This product is available at the site for free download from http://www.sanisoft.com/rtod/index.php3 Other Indian sites -- like rediffmail.com, webduniya.com and mailjol.com -- also offer similar products. But unlike these products, Dr Sani's software follows the new and innovative trend of putting out 'free' software. So, he offers his own 'source-code' to anyone wanting to adapt or improve the product, encouraging a cycle of further improvements. "I am soliciting developers to modify the software for other Indian languages. Particularly Urdu, as this is the most challenging task," said Dr Sani. He says the framework is fairly modular and for someone who knows other language mapping it will be an easy job. "More needs to be done (to promote Indian-language computing)," says Dr Sani. He believes that the low-cost computing device, the Simputer being put together by scientists in Bangalore, could be an ideal device on this front. More websites are also required in Indian languages, with greater co-operation among them, rather than an urge to grab-my-share-of-the-pie, as he puts it. "India is a vast country the market is big enough for everyone but to exploit this market we need co-operation," he says. This software is available for free download from http://www.sanisoft.com/rtod/index.php3 . It is provided under LGPL, or the Lesser GNU Public License. A user is free to use the software even in his commercial products. But if any modifications are made to the original code, then the new code also has to be made public under LGPL. Sani says it took two months for him to create this software "from conceptualization to end-product". This is one in a small-but-growing trend of 'Open Source' and 'free' software products now beginning to come up in a country like India which is known to have vast software skills, but is only now beginning to see more collaborative working thanks to a recent spurt in growth of the Internet. FOOTNOTE: Contact Dr Sani at tarique@sanisoft.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Frederick Noronha | Freelance Journalist | 784 Saligao 403511 Goa India Ph [0091] 832.409490 or 832.409783 Cell 9822 12.24.36 fred@bytesforall.org *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 26 16:11:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:41:28 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] SUG: For students, Indian Open Source projects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15241.8112.567031.205307@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Frederick I have lot of projects in TODO list. If you find anybody looking for projects, please forward them to me, I will guide them and get it completed. -ab -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 26 20:03:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 01:33:52 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] SUG: For students, Indian Open Source projects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15241.22056.904938.94646@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Frederick One small correction, "Indian Free Software Projects" instead of "Indian Open Source Projects" Open Source community does not have any ethics attached. They don't really care about Freedom. Thanks ab -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 26 20:10:57 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 01:40:57 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [Gnu-India]SUG: For students, Indian Open Source projects In-Reply-To: References: <15241.8112.567031.205307@ab.cdclinux.com> Message-ID: <15241.22481.554646.51828@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Narasim Welcome to the GNU community of India. To get into the dev gang, you just need to feel you are a part of this movement, thats it. No one here can grant or revoke your rights. Its all yours. Next, Get involved in some projects, or start your own. We have plenty of ideas. If you have any, tell us. Tell us about your interests and skills to get started Best Regards ab -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) Narasimhamurthy Giridhar writes: > hi anand babu > I am interested in doing some work in Hurd. I am CS student doing my MS. > What do I need to do to get into the dev gang of Gnu-India. > Regards > Narasimhamurthy Giri, Clemson University Computer Science Dept. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Judge not lest ye be judged yourself. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, M.P.Anand Babu wrote: > > > Hi Frederick > > I have lot of projects in TODO list. > > If you find anybody looking for projects, please forward > > them to me, I will guide them and get it completed. > > > > -ab > > -- > > Addicted to GNU Emacs > > Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) > > _______________________________________________ > > Gnu-India mailing list > > Gnu-India@gnu-india.org > > http://gnu-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-india > > > > From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 27 13:16:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:46:52 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Why you should not use sourceforge for your code hosting and development. Message-ID: <3B8A4844.FAFA235F@ti.com> Hello! By now, all of you in the Free Software Community would have come to know that the VA Research supported site http://sourceforge.net/ is going commercial. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/21253.html http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=6267&group_id=1 i.e The code of sourceforge is going to be closed. Here is the relevant text "By selling proprietary software together with Open Source software, VA is making it easier for its enterprise customers to purchase and deploy SourceForge software. VA Linux will be distributing SourceForge Enterprise Edition to its corporate customers under a combination of the Mozilla Public License (version 1.1) and a proprietary software license. " This is not unexpected of a company owned by VA Linux. VA's cheif Larry Augustin, is one among the advocates of the Open Source Movement (which by the way has nothing to do with Free Software Movement). They also add that they will be coming out with the GPLed version of sourceforge code(which is already there, and is used by http://savannah.gnu.org/). But needless to say, they must be feeling that they did a bad thing when they released the code under GPL, way back when they started sourceforge. What if, tomorrow, VA says, all the code hosted on sourceforge with licences other than GPL (or less "restrictive" than GPL) are going to be owned by them? or what if they say that the operational cost is high and shut down the site? These are very much possible. They all jumped into this business, not to promote it or not to be part of the community, but for the simple reason that there is money there. And now, Eric Raymond who, some people regard as Richard Stallman of Open Source Movement, has posted the following mail asking people to calm down... http://lwn.net/daily/esr-on-va.php3 That's stupid, and is unexpected from a person like ESR. Of course I respect him as a hacker. But I think I know why he came out with this letter: He holds huge stake in VA. It's just that simple. I am not a businessman and I don't (and can't think like a businessman and so) I don't understand most of the stuff that he has written in that letter. I am concerned only about one thing. Will the end users of the software be benifited? In this case, it is the developers, who are going to use the sourceforge software. It's clear that given the motives of VA, we should expect more bad news from them. So the conclusion IMNSHO(In My Not So Humble Opinion): Boycott sourceforge, Use savannah instead! Protect your rights and freedom. Let the flamefest begin! Best Regards -- Ramakrishnan M World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 27 18:19:44 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:49:44 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] forwarded message from Narasimhamurthy Giridhar Message-ID: <15242.36672.399599.725643@ab.cdclinux.com> Return-path: Envelope-to: ab@localhost Delivery-date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:19:53 +0530 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] ident=ab) by ab.cdclinux.com with esmtp (Exim 3.31 #1 (Debian)) id 15bQWG-0004R6-00 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:19:52 +0530 Delivered-To: gnu-india.org-ab@gnu-india.org Received: from 207.189.136.128 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.3.3) for ab@localhost (single-drop); Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:19:52 +0530 (IST) Received: (qmail 15399 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2001 16:58:40 -0000 Received: from citron.cs.clemson.edu (HELO cs.clemson.edu) (130.127.48.6) by vrindavix.thisaddress.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 2001 16:58:40 -0000 Received: from comet9.cs.clemson.edu (comet9 [130.127.48.205]) by cs.clemson.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24964 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:56:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (giridhar@localhost) by comet9.cs.clemson.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12145 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:56:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: comet9.cs.clemson.edu: giridhar owned process doing -bs In-Reply-To: <15241.22481.554646.51828@ab.cdclinux.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Narasimhamurthy Giridhar To: "M.P.Anand Babu" Subject: Re: [Gnu-India]SUG: For students, Indian Open Source projects Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Hi ab Thanx for the reply. My interests are Operating Systems. I am right now studying Linux. My skills are as follows: Languages: C, C++ experiance in Compiler Construction, UNIX and Windows Socket Programming,UNIX System Programming, Windows MFC. Currently working on building a device driver for 3Dlabs Permedia2 graphics board on Linux for Pentium based machines. The compiler construction was on Solaris. So was most of the socket programming that i have done. Other than this, I am also interested in internetworking, but my knowledge in protocols is very less. This is about my skills as of now. Do you think i can help?? Regards Narasimhamurthy Giri, Clemson University Computer Science Dept. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Judge not lest ye be judged yourself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, M.P.Anand Babu wrote: > Hi Narasim > Welcome to the GNU community of India. > > To get into the dev gang, you just need to feel > you are a part of this movement, thats it. No one > here can grant or revoke your rights. Its all yours. > > Next, Get involved in some projects, or start your own. > We have plenty of ideas. If you have any, tell us. > > Tell us about your interests and skills to get started > > Best Regards > ab > -- > Addicted to GNU Emacs > Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) > > Narasimhamurthy Giridhar writes: > > hi anand babu > > I am interested in doing some work in Hurd. I am CS student doing my MS. > > What do I need to do to get into the dev gang of Gnu-India. > > Regards > > Narasimhamurthy Giri, Clemson University Computer Science Dept. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Judge not lest ye be judged yourself. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, M.P.Anand Babu wrote: > > > > > Hi Frederick > > > I have lot of projects in TODO list. > > > If you find anybody looking for projects, please forward > > > them to me, I will guide them and get it completed. > > > > > > -ab > > > -- > > > Addicted to GNU Emacs > > > Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Gnu-India mailing list > > > Gnu-India@gnu-india.org > > > http://gnu-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-india > > > > > > > > From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 28 19:43:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (harshu) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 01:13:00 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Glibc Message-ID: <20010829011300.A762@hd2.vsnl.net.in> hi Can somebody give an explantion in newbies terms as to what exactly this article means. I am refering the end where is says not so nice things. http://news.linuxprogramming.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-08-16-002-06-LT regards harsha -- ... I don't know which is more striking - the clumsy inadequacy of words, or their world-shaking power. So long as men remain emotional creatures, they will continue to be taken, like rabbits, by the ears. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 28 15:09:17 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:39:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] From the gnu wins again dept Message-ID: Hi all, IBM has taken GNU/Linux to the NewYork Stock Exchange. Read more about it at http://www.investors.com/editorial/TechP.asp raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 29 09:15:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Vivekananda Prabhu) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) Message-ID: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I have been following the "Free" vs. "Open Source" vs. "Closed Source" debate which has been raging for sometime now. The real issues here is *ethics*. The so-called Open Source guys are here to make *money* period. Though open source definition looks deceptively similar to Free Software definition including half-hearted endorsement of GPL, the real issues are more deeper & subtle (for the casual reader) 1) World Domination -- Most of the open source guys are of the type "My view is world view" including Linus Torvalds & the stupid moron ( pardon me for the strong words used but I couldn't find any political correct word to describe this guy) who has added words of poisonous vicious attack on RMS on GLIBC README!!!. They want Linux to succeed not "Freedom" How does this make them different from Bill Gate's vision of "Windows everywhere"? This is against the "Freedom of choice & collaboration" which must be available to the users & developers. Do we want to have "Linux everywhere" tommorrow & pay $s to Red Hat & VA Linux instead of to M$? I love Free software not because it will dominate the world tommorrow but it gives me the choice & power to do whatever I want to do with it today 2) Software Incubation /Marketing -- These guys give out open source not because they love freedom but as they don't have any other choice. Software incubation from alpha stage to beta & into production (as any developer knows) is a long drawn & costly process. Initial marketing when you don't have a customer requires a fat bank balance. So they do open source. Open Source automatically gives them developers for free (as in free beer), it also gives them free publicity. As more & more users download & use the software this gives them market penetration (market percentage) which they want. Remember Linus Torvalds initially released Linux as a non-free software & then used GPL. He used GPL not because he loved Freedom or had any sacred feeling for GPL (which he doesnot).But he wanted Linux to succeed. If he hadn't used GPL Linux still would have the same mindshare as FreeBSD or Minix. 3)Love for Mozilla/BSD style licences - These people love these licences not because they want to give developers more choice about licences, but these licences give them the option to turn closed source & steal other developers efforts if they have to. E.g. As X Consortium tried to turn last X release into closed source (unsuccessfully) Some of them go to the length of saying developers Read companies) should have the freedom to choose whichever licences they wish to (Notably Tim O'Reilly & seconded by Eric S. Raymond).Extending this argument even M$ Closed source/Shared Source licences are also OK for them. Isn't it? 4) B grade software - The real danger of Open Source is that it will tie those users who love freedom to B grade software, as all Professional & Enterprise Editions will be closed source. You use a open source software to do some basic thing. As your business develops you want to do more advanced things. You suddenly realise you *lose your freedom*, get a closed source software & pay through your nose. This strategy is the same as used by "Freeware" people. In this respect atleast M$ is OK. When you go with M$ you know you have pay for every feature you want to use & you lose freedom. Atleast they don't cheat the people in the name of "Open Source" (not yet). As an e.g. Can you develop JSPs/EJBs using open source Netbeans/Forte? The answer is *no*, leaving aside *early access* releases which are baits to get free developers, testers & *will* be expired once the Closed Source version becomes ready to market. That is why they love non-copyleft BSD/Mozilla licences which prevent them from doing this.They don't love (hate in their hearts) GPL as this prevents them from doing this (if they include other peoples contributions which they invariably have to). Agreed they don't say GPL is "Cancerous" & "Unamerican" the way M$ does though they would love to but scared that they might lose the free (gratis) developers/testers. But they do no lesser harm by saying OK, you can use GPL but you are equally safe using BSD, Mozilla etc.(whill will allow me to steal your efforts).Just look at the list of licences available at Open Source web site (http://www.opensource.org).You'll be surprised to find GPL at the very bottom (added half-heartedly with a sarcastic explanation). I am not surprised tommorrow if they welcome M$ with it's Shared Source licence into thier club (if M$ is ready to pump $s into thier companies).M$ may even licence some part of it's OS kernel using Mozilla/BSD style licence if it can reduce it's maintenance costs while reserving the right to add proprietory extensions Given this background we are seeing more & more "Open Source" guys turning "Closed Source" on the pretext of "Sacrifice". Please read Eric Raymonds explanation for VA going closed source ( It is alright to sacrifice principles for money). With friends like "Open Source" guys do we need enemies? An enemy who acts like a friend is more dangerous than a open foe (M$ & other closed source companies). The real definition of Open Source is "Free beer (for me) not free speech (for you)" (with due apologies to RMS) Sorry for the long winded story. But I felt that it is time somebody exposed these guys for what they are. Everyone here was saying hey we are rivals not enemies, Open Source & FSF are friends & go hand in hand etc. Before flaming me or this mailing list for my heresy of calling GNU/Linux as Linux, please understand I am talking about/exposing the thinking of Open Sourcers. (They certainly donot call Gnu/Linux as Gnu/Linux). In case anybody is still offended my apologies to them. Regards, Vivek __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 29 13:02:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Kalyan Varma) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:32:58 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Vivekananda Prabhu wrote: > Some of them go to the length of saying developers > Read companies) should have the freedom to choose > whichever licences they wish to (Notably Tim O'Reilly > & seconded by Eric S. Raymond).Extending this argument > even M$ Closed source/Shared Source licences are also > OK for them. Isn't it? You are contradicting yourself. Where the hell is my freedom if I cant choose the license I want. I agree GPL is a good thing, but you cant go around forcing people to use GPL. Its their choice. If they dont mind others using their code , then what the hell is your problem ? lets say I write a appilication. I really dont give a damn what license it is under. All I care is that my appilication works.When I use Linux I dont use it coz it is under GPL. I use it coz its the technology that I like. - kalyan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 05:51:51 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:21:51 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com>; from vivekbp@yahoo.com on Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:15:06AM -0700 References: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010830112151.A22766@mailandnews.com> On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:15:06AM -0700, Vivekananda Prabhu wrote: > > 4) B grade software - The real danger of Open Source > is that it will tie those users who love freedom to B > grade software, as all Professional & Enterprise > Editions will be closed source. > > You use a open source software to do some basic thing. > As your business develops you want to do more advanced > things. You suddenly realise you *lose your freedom*, > get a closed source software & pay through your nose. Even if we are willing to pay, we don't get the basic freedoms that we deserve. We will be forced to pay for "LESSER software" and by the time we realize that, we are trapped. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 29 17:42:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:12:28 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15245.10628.282676.90341@mail.linux-delhi.org> Hi Prabhu, >>>>> "VA" == Vivekananda Prabhu writes: VA> Hi, I have been following the "Free" vs. "Open Source" vs. VA> "Closed Source" debate which has been raging for sometime now. VA> The real issues here is *ethics*. VA> The so-called Open Source guys are here to make *money* VA> period. Though open source definition looks deceptively VA> similar to Free Software definition including half-hearted VA> endorsement of GPL, the real issues are more deeper & subtle VA> (for the casual reader) I'm in it to make money. Does that make me an outcast from the Free Software community? VA> 1) World Domination -- Most of the open source guys are of the VA> type "My view is world view" including Linus Torvalds & the VA> stupid moron ( pardon me for the strong words used but I VA> couldn't find any political correct word to describe this guy) VA> who has added words of poisonous vicious attack on RMS on VA> GLIBC README!!!. Fanaticism for any reason is a lost cause. Any reason: whether for or against GPL, for or against MS, for or against ESR or RMS or LT. VA> They want Linux to succeed not "Freedom" My definition of freedom includes the right to let other people release their software under any license they please. I'll still try to convince them to go GPL, I'd be upset if they chose another license, but I wouldn't abuse them. True freedom includes the freedom to err, and no one has the One True Definition of right and wrong. VA> [snip] Regards, -- Raju -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 08:14:15 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Vivekananda Prabhu) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 01:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Freedom to Gaurd my back & to advise others to Gaurd thiers Message-ID: <20010830081415.49178.qmail@web20005.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, This is further to my posting on "OS is as dangerous as MS" & subsequent postings. I am not pressing for a world-wide "Prevention of Non-GPL licences" law, nor am I asking for a law to prevent people from leaving their doors open when they go out or to prevent people to commit suicide My intention is just to warn others who may not understand the full implications of their decisions to use MPL/BSD & variants If any licence is OK & the basic freedom, why do "Open Source" people cry fowl when MS uses this "Freedom" to publish Shared Source/Closed Source software? Aren't they breaching MS "Freedom" to do so? I am not against people making money.But what these "Open Source" guys say is "It is alright if VA, ArsDigita, Caldera make money by writing closed source. But it is wrong if MS does so". If this is not plain hipocrisy what else is? BSD was no lesser technolgically than Linux in it's time. It gave us TCP/IP, Kerberos & what not. But why did it remain an under dog to it's offsprings Solaris, SCO etc.? Because of it's weak licence Sun, SCO etc. could easily steal any new technology from it without contributing their innovations back to it. So BSD always lagged behind these proprietary companies. It also lead these companies to develop incompatible proprietory features which ultimately fragmented Unix market & gave a lee-way for MS to capture the Server market. If Linux had been released under BSD licence it would have met the same fate as BSD for all the technical superiority of Linux for the very same reasons. I am not a "GPL zealot" or "GPL fundamentalist". I also don't hang RMS photo in my study room. Give me any licence that gives me same protection as GPL does (legally) & I have no qualms in using it. It could always be argued that GPL is un-enforcable in India. Then there is also nothing to prevent people from modifying their copy of MS MFC develop software & sell it. Just because 10 robberies happen in the city daily despite all precautions & secuity, I am not going to leave my front door open when I go out. If making money is the only issue the average computer user won't give a damn shit whether MS, VA or Red Hat makes it. If cost is the only issue he/she will not use Linux when he/she can get pirated copy of MS software for same price (which he percieves to be more user-friendly whether someone agrees or not). If technology is the only issue it doesn't matter to 80% of computer users who use MS Word to type letters & MS Excel to manage finances.If security is the only issue Apache was broken into recently (go read the article in their web site). What matters to me is the Freedom to modify the software in anyway I want without limiting the choice of other applications available to me (I or anybody else how ever brilliant cannot write every concievable software even if they write all thier life time). I want source code to all these apps so that I can customize them.For that I want my favourite Free software to have a significant market share. I don't just want this freedom now, I want it for all posterity. I don't want it to fragment or be an under dog to proprietory software & lose it's market share. That is why I recommend GPL After reading my posting if someone decides to use MPL/BSD or MS shared source licence or Closed Source licence I don't give a damn. I also don't give a damn if someone decides to leave thier front door open or decide to commit suicide But please don't question my Freedom of speech to warn others to gaurd thier back by branding me as a GPL zealot Regards, Vivek __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 14:47:45 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:17:45 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] Governments Pushing Open-Source SW Message-ID: For more details check news.com site. -- Raj ============================================================== Governments push open-source software By Paul Festa, Staff Writer, CNET News.com August 29, 2001, 4:00 a.m. PT Governments around the world have found a new rallying cry -- "Software libre!" -- and Microsoft is working overtime to quell it. A recent global wave of legislation is compelling government agencies, and in some cases government-owned companies, to use open-source or free software unless proprietary software is the only feasible option. ============================================================= From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 11:17:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Vivekananda Prabhu) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:17:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] GNU/Linux vs Linux Message-ID: <20010830111752.30953.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, To the un-initiated both GNU/Linux & Linux look one & the same. If you look at the source code or binary executables it is the same. But if you look philosophically at what these stand for they are East & West. GNU/Linux (Free Software) - Freedom first & other benefits last Linux (Open Source) - TCSA ( Technology, Cost, Security & Availability of source code) First & Freedom last But both have a common enemy MS. Which will beat MS Freedom or TCSA? TCSA can never beat MS for the following reasons 1) Technology & Security - MS can easily beat "Linux" easily by ripping off technology from FeeBSD, robustness from OpenBSD , Security from NetBSD & Aqua from Apple & calling the new OS "GATES". This is not hypothetical as MS has already stolen TCP/IP & Kerberos from FreeBSD to become an effective competitor to Unix/Linux (on the server side) 2) Cost - MS can make Windows free (gratis/cost)as it did with IE to kill Netscape, if it starts feeling the heat. It can keep Windows free (cost) for sometime to kill Linux & then start charging sky high prices to compensate the losses. Alternatively it can remove it's new licensing scheme thereby allowing piracy to thrive & kill Linux. That is how MS killed Lotus 1-2-3 , Word Perfect, Borland etc. 3) Availability of source code - People buy Windows to run MS Office, they buy Windows for it's nice GUI & not it's (un)stable kernel. In fact Kernel code is a liability for MS not an asset ( considering development, maintenance & testing costs) I am not surprised if MS makes it's Kernel open source (a la Apple Darwin). The signs are already there ( for those who can see) MS Craig Mundie attends Open Source ( not Free Software) conference. In fact he is invited there to attend FSF conference which he refuses to. Craig Mundie sings paens for BSD licences while critisizing GPL (subtly). Contrary to what most people think MS is not stupid. They are testing waters. If developers don't buy their "Shared Source" vision they will eventually go with Open Source (not Free Software) if that could cut their development, maintenance & testing costs. When that happens we will see Bill G. shaking hands with Open source hot-shots (Co-World domination??). Bill G. & ESR would be praising TCSA quality of Open Source together. After some months we hear that MS is making heavy-duty investments in VA, Read Hat etc. After all Bill G. is a businessman. It doesn't matter to him from where the money comes from Windows or Linux as long as he gets to pocket it. Infact he already *has* investments in Apple, Corel etc. (ex-MS hate club) So MS can beat "Linux" easily in TCSA area, but it cannot beat GNU/Linux in "Freedom". If there is something MS will never give us or (wish to) let us have is "Freedom" I hope this posting opens the eyes of "Linux" people (who dream of beating MS using TCSA aspects of "Linux") to the importance of "Freedom" (read GNU/Linux) But then I can wake only those who are *really* sleeping not those who *pretend* to sleep Regards, Vivek __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 13:03:15 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:33:15 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] [Fwd: he who controls the bootloader] Message-ID: <20010830183315.A1537@GNUhead> -------- Oorspronkelijk bericht -------- Onderwerp: he who controls the bootloader Van: Mark-Jan Bastian Aan: discussion@hippiesfromhell.org An interesting article about an issue that was not widely examined in the Microsoft antitrust trial: http://www.byte.com/documents/s=1115/byt20010824s0001/0827_hacker.html It's about the way Microsoft licenses it's software to OEM's like Dell and Gateway, that prevents non-microsoft OS's to be installed as a dual-boot option on newly shipped PC's. These secret MS-to-OEM licenses (not the EULA license!) have a provision that the pre-installed Microsoft-OS must be loaded by a Microsoft bootloader only. And, the license agreement of the bootloader, states that that bootloader may only be used for booting Microsoft operating systems. This prevents that any OEM can ship a dual-boot system with Windows and another OS. This is needed by alternative OS manufacturers (be it linux, FreeBSD or BeOS) to give any reasonable way to market a different OS, and allow it to gain marketshare. Most joe-sixpack users of PC's don't know that there exists something besides windows. They will only use what is preinstalled, and are not going to do extra steps to buy, download and install alternative OS's. This means that most people also won't have the chance to test alternative operating systems. Installing afterwards will also give more problems than a finetuned linux install that an OEM could deliver, where everything would work first time you turn it on. So, if a OEM like Dell or Gateway wants to give people an option to boot into either Linux or Windows, that is not possible, Microsoft will threaten them by either increasing licensing fees, withdrawing support, or whatever argument they can make to convice them to stick to a Microsoft OS only. Be, Inc, a company that made the BeOS, found this out some time ago, when giving OEM's an option to include a preinstalled BeOS installation for free, besides windows (dual boot). There was a lot of enthusiasm at the OEM's, but once the Microsoft lawyers visted the OEM, and explained their licensing terms again, they all had to refuse the offer of Be, Inc. The interesting thing is that the U.S. antitrust trial was mainly about the browser integration issue, while this bootloader control issue, is much more clear case of anticompetitive behaviour. Mark-Jan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 15:03:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:33:06 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] GNU/Linux vs Linux In-Reply-To: <20010830111752.30953.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010830111752.30953.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010830203306.A907@GNUhead> [Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 04:17:52AM -0700] Vivekananda Prabhu : > MS Craig Mundie attends Open Source ( not Free Software) > conference. In fact he is invited there to attend FSF > conference which he refuses to. Craig Mundie sings paeans > for BSD licenses while criticizing GPL (subtly). He is actually singing 'elegies' for the benefit of our Open Source guys who think that the BSD license is great ! He is doing the bidding of his master to further the goal of 'embracing & extending' all of the software under the Open Source guys' hats. There will be no money to be made by these Open Source guys/developers and by the time they realize this it will be too late and they may have to increase the contrast of their eyes :( M$ would have made 'good, clean' money by 'stealing' the code of our OSS guys; M$ brand of innovation. Craig Mundie cannot answer questions of the Free Software Conference attendees (if he were to attend) because he will start blabbering when the issue of *Software Freedom* is raised. He very well knows that only the GPL can protect an ordinary developer. He fears the GPL and its *fundamentalist brigade* for giving us (the developer and the end-user) *Software Freedom*. The FreeBSD license is a 'black hole' trap because it neither protects the Developer nor makes life easier for the End User. -- GPG: 1024D/F1624A6E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 06:27:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 30 Aug 2001 11:57:56 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86snearrir.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Kalyan Varma writes: > On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Vivekananda Prabhu wrote: > > > Some of them go to the length of saying developers > > Read companies) should have the freedom to choose > > whichever licences they wish to (Notably Tim O'Reilly > > & seconded by Eric S. Raymond).Extending this argument > > even M$ Closed source/Shared Source licences are also > > OK for them. Isn't it? > > You are contradicting yourself. Where the hell is my freedom if I cant > choose the license I want. That is a very naive (and dangerously misleading) interpretation of the word "freedom" propagated by the Open Source camp. In effect, you are accepting a definition of "freedom" formulated by people who themselves don't care about freedom :) Now *there's* your contradiction! Any freedom, the exercising of which takes away the freedom of others is no freedom at all. When a developer chooses to publish his (original) software under a non-copyleft license, he consciously accepts that someone down the line is sooner or later going to lose one or more of the four basic freedoms of Free Software. On the other hand, for an end user with no interest in further development and publishing of the software in question, a non-copyleft but GPL-compatible Free Software license is perfectly fine. > I agree GPL is a good thing, but you cant > go around forcing people to use GPL. Its their choice. The Free Software movement can only advocate the use of particular licenses; it cannot *force* anybody; it does not have the *power* to force. Unless, of course, you are basing your work on a previously GPL'd work in which case you are bound by the "laws of freedom." The word "force" does not apply here. You are under moral and legal obligations to pass on the same freedoms that you received. > mind others using their code , then what the hell is your problem ? > lets say I write a appilication. I really dont give a damn what license > it is under. All I care is that my appilication works.When I use Linux > I dont use it coz it is under GPL. I use it coz its the technology that I > like. I sincerely hope that this mailing list plays some part, however small, in changing this view of yours. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 16:53:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Kalyan Varma) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:23:30 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: <86snearrir.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: On 30 Aug 2001, Khuzaima A. Lakdawala wrote: > That is a very naive (and dangerously misleading) interpretation of > the word "freedom" propagated by the Open Source camp. In effect, you > are accepting a definition of "freedom" formulated by people who > themselves don't care about freedom :) Now *there's* your > contradiction! > > Any freedom, the exercising of which takes away the freedom of others is > no freedom at all. According to the Oxford Dictonary Freedom = Condition of being free and unrestricted Freedom = Having personal rights and social and political liberty When I write code ( original from scratch ) I own the code. If my main aim is to make money, I sell it as a proprietary software like any of the traditional company. If I want to make money and still want people to see the code, I release it under the Open Source License. If I want other to take and , modify it, and redistribute it then I would release it under GPL. The choice is mine. So I have my personal rights on the code and am unrestricted by any other licenses. So I have freedom here. Now you are saying I *must* release it under GPL to give freedom to others. So dont I loose my freedom to choose now ??? If I personally at some point write code I will release it under GPL. I believe it it. However just coz someone does not release code under GPL, you cant point at him and say he is taking away everyones freedom. - -kalyan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 31 12:15:31 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Vivekananda Prabhu) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 05:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Making money from GPLed (Free) Software Message-ID: <20010831121531.61888.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, One of the common refrains I hear about GPL from Open Source/Closed Source guys is you cannot make money by writing GPLed software. You need a proprietory licence or Open Source MPL/BSD to make money. Ofcourse you can make money writing GPLed software. But the business model is different than making money using MPL/BSD or proprietory licenses. Proprietory/ Open Source models depend on "Branding" to get VC funding & run the business profitably (1). To have an effective branding you need USPs (Unique Selling Propositions). This ultimately leads to some really useful modules being Closed source ( irrespective of the licence claiming to be Open Source) In GPL model you make money by offering Services (not selling software alone). You could sell "Free" software but your USP will be the quality of service (QOS) you offer in installing/setting up software, software customization, training, maintenance & technical support. The only difference will be some high-flying VC will not be funding you. You really need to sweat it out. Anyway it is not bad as you won't have a black-suited guy who doesn't know ABCD of software controlling your every action.There is no danger that he (VC) will pull-out his investments when things are not green & your Co. joins the long list of Dot.gone companies You can win & keep clients only by offering first-class services. Any second-class, third-class service will not do (otherwise he will go to others GPL grants him the freedom to do so).Word of mouth is very important. Nobody can lock-in customers by offering third-class proprietory solutions (you actually are *stealing* customers freedom in doing so by using BSD/MPL) & denying him & others from improving the software beyond what you have given ( You might have given him A grade product but he wants A+ one & doesn't like to pay you. May be he doesn't like your QOS or price) Considering the Freedom GPL gives to end-users I am beginning to wonder why doesn't a Consumer Forum (not FSF/RMS) ask for a ban on Non-GPL software to safe guard consumer interests Increasingly we are seeing BSD/MPL being used as sugar-coated "poison candy" by companies to trap & lock-in users. I suggest that a law be passed that these software carry a warning "B grade. Expect Non-Free 'A' grade software soon which is injurious to your freedom " the way cigarette packs carry the message "Smoking cigarettes is injurious to health". After reading this message if someone decides to use such S/W ar smoke cigarettes it is thier funeral (freedom), but let us guard their "Freedom for Information" (Just joking don't brand me as a person conspiring to steal others freedom which I am not) Well developing GPLed software you can still make money. But you cannot make money sacrificing ethics (stealing customer freedom) as GPL will not allow you to do it the way MPL/BSD do. You really do need to sweat it out. Do you have it in you? GPLed software will give money to meet everyones needs but not everyones greeds. Come on, we leave in a country where people buy cars, houses & make a posh living selling Idlis & Dosas which donot carry any IP or licence in roadside shops. There are companies that package it in vaccuum packs & make money. It is the quality of service that brings in (more) money. Software is also a commodity to be sold in bulk in the Bazaar (Both RMS & ESR agree to this point). The only difference is that these shops or packaging companies do not intend to make proprietory extensions to Idli & patent/copy right it. That is why we don't need GPL here.But in S/W there are M$ & others waiting to steal our freedom & choices, so we need GPL. Infact there is lot of opportunity for making money using GPLed software in India. Around 90% people don't own PCs yet (aren't addicted to Windows yet).When our stupid government removes import duties on H/W making the PCs cheaper a whole lot of people will be buying it. This is an opportunity for us to grow. Around 60%-70% of our population donot know English. They want software in local languages.They cannot afford XP (because of WPA & price), Win XX doesn't give this choice to them. We can give them that choice using Indigo A whole lot of people do not know installing/setting up software. There is money to be made here. A whole lot of home users, companies need Financial software (GnuCash) which is customized to their taste & requirements. Any software including supposedly user friendly M$ Office needs training. There is money *here*. You only need to keep you eyes & ears open If you go to Banta Singh (sorry for racial stereo stypes you can even read it as Banta Prabhu if you are offended) from Jhumri Talaiyya & tell him about "linux" technology & security, IBM clustering, loadable Kernel modules etc. He will say "Duh!". He is more than happy using Windowz. You give him an assembled PC pre-loaded with GNU/Linux, any software customized or otherwise in his own language, any training he needs & maintenance he needs he will buy it. But even OSS guys can do it or even pirated software guys selling Windowz. So what is Free Software USP? We say to Banta "Look Boss (customer is our king). I am not locking-in or trapping you in anyway. I am giving you *complete* source (code). If tommorrow I close shop or you don't like my source you can go to any XYZ to do anything you want with the software". He will be amazed & ask you "How do you plan to make money in the future?". You smile & say "By giving you a better quality of service & offering you reasonable prices". He will then trust you & tell these OSS & pirated software guys to scoot. They can't tell him the same thing without telling lies(fully or partially).Even if they lie they cannot fool all the people all the time. So hackers start writing code in GPL & close your ears for all MPL/BSD marketing & FUD Regards, Vivek __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 31 13:03:34 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Kalyan Varma) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:33:34 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Making money from GPLed (Free) Software In-Reply-To: <20010831121531.61888.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Vivekananda Prabhu wrote: > Ofcourse you can make money writing GPLed software. > But the business model is different than making money > using MPL/BSD or proprietory licenses. > In GPL model you make money by offering Services (not > selling software alone). You could sell "Free" > software but your USP will be the quality of service > (QOS) you offer in installing/setting up software, > software customization, training, maintenance & > technical support. I dont really see anything wrong selling GPL based software. I mean Red Hat for example, gives you the OS free, However the box pack with the printed manuals and stuff is expensive. Red Hat does make money on those Box Packs still being GPLed. RMS himself used to sell early versions of emacs, but had also make a copy of it avilable on the web for free. He did make living by selloing emacs on those old tapes. > Considering the Freedom GPL gives to end-users I am > beginning to wonder why doesn't a Consumer Forum (not > FSF/RMS) ask for a ban on Non-GPL software to safe > guard consumer interests You do have to realise that not all Computer companies can survive by just offering servies. Lets say MS releases windows under GPL, knowing MS it would make windowz *not so user friendly*. Only that way people will come back to these companies for services. IF the software works fine, why would anyone need service..... So the quality of the software will suffer in this case. So if you ban all non-GPL software... many companies will fall. So instead of banning, we spread awareness , telling people, the kind of freedom the people will enjoy using GPL sofware. - -kalyan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 31 13:27:14 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:57:14 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Making money from GPLed (Free) Software In-Reply-To: <20010831121531.61888.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com>; from vivekbp@yahoo.com on Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 05:15:31AM -0700 References: <20010831121531.61888.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010831185714.C587@orion> Hi vivek, I feel that in all of your writings you confuses between GNU GPL, BSD, Free Software, Open Source etc. GNU GPL != Free Software, BSD is not anti Free Software. Open Source I dont think is about anti GNU GPL even if its not primarily about Fredom and Free Software. > One of the common refrains I hear about GPL from Open > Source/Closed Source guys is you cannot make money by > writing GPLed software. You need a proprietory licence > or Open Source MPL/BSD to make money. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 31 13:09:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:39:00 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: ; from kalyan@exocore.com on Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:23:30PM +0530 References: <86snearrir.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <20010831183900.B587@orion> > According to the Oxford Dictonary > > Freedom = Condition of being free and unrestricted > Freedom = Having personal rights and social and political liberty Sure, and your 'personal rights' ends where it can hurt another persons Freedom. (Hope you wont ask for Freedom to shoot your friend. ;) ) > When I write code ( original from scratch ) I own the code. > If my main aim is to make money, I sell it as a proprietary software like > any of the traditional company. If I want to make money and still want > people to see the code, I release it under the Open Source License. > If I want other to take and , modify it, and redistribute it then I would > release it under GPL. The choice is mine. So I have my personal rights on > the code and am unrestricted by any other licenses. So I have freedom > here. Now you are saying I *must* release it under GPL to give freedom to > others. I will say you *must* release it as Free Software (FreeSoftware != GPL) since I think that is the right way to go. But I am not going to point a gun at you and ask to do the same. > So dont I loose my freedom to choose now ??? Shouldnt you, if it hurt some others Freedom ? From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 16:20:20 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 30 Aug 2001 21:50:20 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: <15245.10628.282676.90341@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> <15245.10628.282676.90341@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <86ae0hh64b.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raju Mathur writes: > >>>>> "VA" == Vivekananda Prabhu writes: > > VA> The real issues here is *ethics*. > > VA> The so-called Open Source guys are here to make *money* > VA> period. Though open source definition looks deceptively > VA> similar to Free Software definition including half-hearted > VA> endorsement of GPL, the real issues are more deeper & subtle > VA> (for the casual reader) > > I'm in it to make money. Does that make me an outcast from the Free > Software community? It has been stressed repeatedly by many in the Free Software community that "Free Software is not anti-business." Nobody is implying that you can't be "in it to make money." However, you cannot compromise on the basic principles of freedom, justify these compromises on the basis of financial considerations, and still claim to be part of the community. This is *precisely* what VA Linux just did, ESR's feeble "clarifications" notwithstanding. When money becomes the sole concern and making money becomes the *only* goal, then no movement can succeed. What the Free Software Movement needs from the business community are ethical and morally upright business persons who can come up with business models which can sustain themselves without compromising on the basic principles of freedom. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 31 13:48:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:18:08 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [Commercial] Sysdmins and Tech Support Guys needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1053.192.168.0.2.999265688.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> hi, Archean is looking out for *nix Sys Admins/Network Admins ,Anyone out there who want to work on *nix ;-) Knowledge in any one or more of below *nix Clusters. Mail Servers. Web Servers. Maintaining heterogeneous networks. Anyone interested can mail to career@archeanit.com or call at the given no's anytime of the day. P.S : Please dont post ur resumes/enquiries to the list. Kind regards S.Goswami --------------------------------------------- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Wed Aug 1 03:54:50 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Kalyan Varma) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:24:50 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] (DMCA) In-Reply-To: <3B66F024.8EDFC28E@eth.net> Message-ID: There will be no big impact with a protest here. However we have to make sure a law like DMCA is not passed in our country. - -kalyan On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, M Balakrishna Pillai wrote: > > dear freedom fighters > > I think we should chart out and execute protest. Some body come > forward and co-ordinate it. > > M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Wed Aug 1 10:16:16 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 15:46:16 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Debian Multimedia Project (DeMuDi) Message-ID: <3B67D6F0.51751E14@ti.com> May be of interest to some one in this list.. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ The Debian Multimedia Distribution[1] (DeMuDi) project is an effort to build a Linux distribution for the purpose of multimedia work. The Debian GNU/Linux distribution already contains the tools for building and maintaining such a distribution and will serve as the basis for this distribution. Current Linux distributions either target web applications and services or on desktop machines. Multimedia and specifically multimedia production capabilities have only recently been well integrated into the Linux kernel. Curently, people who are interested in using the power of Linux to do multimedia and artistic work must compile programs on their own and face issues such as incompatible interfaces, availability of hardware drivers and several other related issues, lowering to a considerable amount artistic productivity. The Debian Multimedia Distribution tries to overcome these problems by providing a customized distribution specifically for this kind of user. The package list[2] contains prepackaged programs chosen by DeMuDi that the user can easily install onto his system to have a fully-functional multimedia workspace. Many packages targeted for integration into DeMuDi are already packaged and part of the Debian distribution. DeMuDi is supported by the following organizations: . Free Software Foundation Europe[3] . Computer Music Institute[4], Firenze . Verein für experimentelle Datenverarbeitung[5], Vienna Links: 1. http://www.demudi.org/ 2. http://gige.xdv.org/pages/DeMuDi/pages/packages 3. http://www.fsfeurope.org/ 4. http://www.centrotemporeale.it/ 5. http://www.xdv.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Wed Aug 1 15:00:34 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R.Lakshmikanth) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 20:30:34 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Video CD Player for Linux.... Message-ID: <011301c11a9a$dd62a5c0$23b409ca@eth.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C11AC8.D0F6C860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi folks, I'm a new entrant in the mailing list. I work in Odyssey technologies = Ltd., Chennai. I'm using Linux for the past three years. RH 7.1 is my flavour now. I'm actually looking for a good Video CD Player for Linux.=20 Please gimme links from where I can download the player. Thanx in = advance. With Warm Regards, R.Lakshmikanth. ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C11AC8.D0F6C860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi folks,
     
     I'm a new entrant = in the mailing=20 list. I work in Odyssey technologies Ltd., = Chennai.
     
     I'm using Linux for the past = three years. RH=20 7.1 is my flavour now.
     
     I'm actually looking for a good = Video CD=20 Player for Linux.
     
     Please gimme links from where I = can download=20 the player. Thanx in advance.
     
    With Warm=20 Regards,
    R.Lakshmikanth.
    ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C11AC8.D0F6C860-- From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Wed Aug 1 16:27:23 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 21:57:23 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Video CD Player for Linux.... In-Reply-To: <011301c11a9a$dd62a5c0$23b409ca@eth.net> References: <011301c11a9a$dd62a5c0$23b409ca@eth.net> Message-ID: <20010801215723.A2756@debianut.ekmnet> [Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:30:34PM +0530] R.Lakshmikanth : > actually looking for a good Video CD Player for Linux. Get hold of Xine, the best one around. The URL for this is http://xine.sourceforge.net/ Xine plays MPEG system streams (ie. MPEG videos with sound). In contrast to many other players, it does its best to synchronize audio and video. This wonderful program is getting better & better, tnx to the GNU GPL... -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Keeping the Air-Waves FREE...........Amateur Radio Keeping your Software FREE.........the GNU Project Keeping the W W W FREE....Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 03:52:50 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:22:50 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: <3B665625.1A038AF2@nsc.ernet.in> <2136.192.168.0.2.996591370.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9E04AF44A64EE27E38C1B13B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Satyakam Goswami wrote: > hi, > i am working on a draft proposal for use of GNU/Linux in Schools anybody > intrested in these kind of projects or if they are already working on something > like this i would be glad to learn about it. This is a very important step. Probably the first thing to be done is to provide help for installing GNU/Linux in schools having computers already. Present status at many places is, they just have MSWindows running and the "Educational Software" is MS-Office. But without an easy to use word processor, many won't switch over. I use 'abiword' and find it very good. Another aspect is the kind of machines owned by achools. Many may have Pentium-I machines still running. RedHat 7.1 or any latest distributions are not going to run on it comfortably. They can run as good X-terminals. One good place to look for is the Linux Terminal Server Project homepage. www.ltsp.org. A networked system is anyway a must in schools to have teacher-student interaction. ajith --------------9E04AF44A64EE27E38C1B13B Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------9E04AF44A64EE27E38C1B13B-- From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 03:54:49 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:24:49 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: <3B66E628.46056B57@eth.net> Message-ID: <3B68CF09.380A7CB0@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0D66FED829084C40913E7C5A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit M Balakrishna Pillai wrote: > Probably for SuSE advantage. Here in Kochi raoo is distributing Debian > GNU/Linux at Rs.100/- for 3 CDS (this man, I think, is not taking any > profit.) > like to get the address of the place in Cochin. Does he sent it by post. Like to know the details. ajith --------------0D66FED829084C40913E7C5A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------0D66FED829084C40913E7C5A-- From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 04:49:30 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Mohit Agarwal) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:19:30 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: Today at 09:22 +0530, Ajith Kumar wrote: : Present status at many places is, they just have MSWindows running and : the "Educational Software" is MS-Office. But without an easy to use : word processor, many won't switch over. I use 'abiword' and find it : very good. Another aspect is the kind of machines owned by achools. I looked at `abiword' for the first time today. It seems to resemble the M$ windoughs `word' perfectly! Have you ever heard of something called TeX or LaTeX? A program called `lyx' -- distributed under the GNU GPL -- is aimed aimed specifically for those who haven't heard of LaTeX, or are afraid to learn it. It's provides a WYSYWYG interface to LaTeX, and is indeed very simple, and much less frustrating than the windoughs `word'. mohit From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 05:09:01 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:39:01 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, A quick intro - I'm 20 yr chap doing my 4th year Chemical Engg. at IIT Madras. > This is a very important step. Probably the first thing to be done is to provide > help for installing GNU/Linux in schools having computers already. Present Accept every word. The problem is, as most of you will accept, a lack of awareness about Linux and "fundaes" in general. I was in Trichy recently, doing my summer job in BHEL there. They use all Windows 2K machines. I started talking with the people about trying out Linux and they'd ask me questions like after I have Linux can I still boot into Windows, how can there be two different OSes on the same machine, won't it delete all my files, and worst of all, IS IT SECURE!! It took me one hour to convince them to finally try Linux and the guys there are actually pretty happy about it. The point is, inspite of the huge media attention Linux is getting these days, *LOTS* of people still have no idea about it. So, getting people to try out Linux implies that you'll have to spend quite some time discussing the various issues in favour of Linux, get the teachers familiarised with it, lots of patience etc. It would be great if we could get more volunteers in this regard. I'm ready from Chennai (and places in and around it .. I love driving :-) > status at many places is, they just have MSWindows running and the > "Educational Software" is MS-Office. But without an easy to use word processor, > many won't switch over. I use 'abiword' and find it very good. > Another aspect is the kind of machines owned by achools. Many may have > Pentium-I machines still running. RedHat 7.1 or any latest distributions are > not going to run on it comfortably. They can run as good X-terminals. One > good place to look for is the Linux Terminal Server Project homepage. > www.ltsp.org. A networked system is anyway a must in schools to have > teacher-student interaction. Abiword is good. I'd actually suggest Star-Office. The nice thing about having people start off with Star-Office is the ability to have them save their files in native Windows formats like .doc, .ppt etc. I mean, if a teacher has to, say, give a presentation, the machine she'd use to give it would more probably than not, have Win on it. Until and unless they have Linux on all machines, we'd rather not assume so. Regarding the OS flavour, I'm pretty much in favour of LTSP. On the server, personally, I'd say Red Hat 6.2 over 7.1. Don't aske me why ... I just find it a *LOT* more comfortable, and definitely so for a newbie. Just a personal opinion. I might have made some extremely stupid/WRONG statements in the paragraphs above. If you find something wrong, feel free to flame me :-). Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 05:32:29 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:02:29 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: ; from ch98086@che.iitm.ac.in on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:39:01AM +0530 References: Message-ID: <20010802110229.B5656@mailandnews.com> On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:39:01AM +0530, R Sai Kiran wrote: > > Accept every word. The problem is, as most of you will accept, a > lack of awareness about Linux .... The most important fact that people have to be aware of is that the operating system is GNU and not linux. Popularity of this OS or the number of people using it is not, and never was the objective behind developing a free OS. If people are not aware of their freedoms, what do they benefit from this free OS. (forget technical merrits, since all OSes have their technical merrits). Please make it a practice to say GNU/Linux (or just GNU if GNU/Linux is too long) when you speak of the OS. Otherwise we will be defeating its fundamental goal. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 05:46:59 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:16:59 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1067.192.168.0.8.996731219.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > > Hi, > > A quick intro - I'm 20 yr chap doing my 4th year Chemical Engg. at > IIT Madras. > >> This is a very important step. Probably the first thing to be done is to >> provide help for installing GNU/Linux in schools having computers already. >> Present > > Accept every word. The problem is, as most of you will accept, a > lack of awareness about Linux and "fundaes" in general. I was in Trichy > recently, doing my summer job in BHEL there. They use all Windows 2K > machines. I started talking with the people about trying out Linux and > they'd ask me questions like after I have Linux can I still boot into > Windows, how can there be two different OSes on the same machine, won't it > delete all my files, and worst of all, IS IT SECURE!! It took me one hour > to convince them to finally try Linux and the guys there are actually > pretty happy about it. The point is, inspite of the huge media attention > Linux is getting these days, *LOTS* of people still have no idea about it. > So, getting people to try out Linux implies that you'll have to spend quite > some time discussing the various issues in favour of Linux, get the > teachers familiarised with it, lots of patience etc. It would be great if > we could get more volunteers in this regard. I'm ready from Chennai (and > places in and around it .. I love driving :-) this is a good approach, it works every time for mee too :) As for the volunteers there are two fellas from the local lug who have shown intrest lets see how many like minded ppl can get together and work for the cause. > >> status at many places is, they just have MSWindows running and the >> "Educational Software" is MS-Office. But without an easy to use word >> processor, many won't switch over. I use 'abiword' and find it very good. >> Another aspect is the kind of machines owned by achools. Many may have >> Pentium-I machines still running. RedHat 7.1 or any latest distributions >> are not going to run on it comfortably. They can run as good X-terminals. >> One good place to look for is the Linux Terminal Server Project homepage. >> www.ltsp.org. A networked system is anyway a must in schools to have >> teacher-student interaction. i will have a look at it. > > Abiword is good. I'd actually suggest Star-Office. The nice thing > about having people start off with Star-Office is the ability to have them > save their files in native Windows formats like .doc, .ppt etc. I mean, if > a teacher has to, say, give a presentation, the machine she'd use to give > it would more probably than not, have Win on it. Until and unless they have > Linux on all machines, we'd rather not assume so. Regarding the OS flavour, > I'm pretty much in favour of LTSP. On the server, personally, I'd say Red > Hat 6.2 over 7.1. Don't aske me why ... I just find it a *LOT* more > comfortable, and definitely so for a newbie. Just a personal opinion. i think we will stick on with Open Office in the true spirit of Free Software. > > I might have made some extremely stupid/WRONG statements in > the paragraphs above. If you find something wrong, feel free to flame me > :-). cheers S.Goswami ------------------------------------- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 05:53:28 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:23:28 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: <3B665625.1A038AF2@nsc.ernet.in> <2136.192.168.0.2.996591370.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> Satyakam Goswami wrote: > > i am working on a draft proposal for use of GNU/Linux in Schools anybody > intrested in these kind of projects or if they are already working on something > like this i would be glad to learn about it. I think LTSP is the way to go. There is also a K12-LTSP project specifically aimed at schools. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 06:15:53 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:45:53 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> References: <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> Message-ID: <1375.192.168.0.2.996732953.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > i am working on a draft proposal for use of GNU/Linux in Schools >> anybody >> intrested in these kind of projects or if they are already working on >> something like this i would be glad to learn about it. > > I think LTSP is the way to go. There is also a K12-LTSP project > specifically aimed at schools. > i will check that cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 06:16:25 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Jayan S R) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:46:25 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] Windoze syllabus for +2 In-Reply-To: <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> Message-ID: what can we do about this? The KV school syllabus for Computer Science 11th and 12th have changed last year from C ans C++ to the following. 11 Std consists of Fox pro programming and M$ Word 12 Std consists of Fox pro advanced programming and Advanced -:) Windoze Word and Excel. something should be done about this or else all the students will be brain damaged. regards -- jsr From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 06:38:33 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:08:33 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <1067.192.168.0.8.996731219.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: Hi, > i think we will stick on with Open Office in the true spirit of Free > Software. I have'nt yet tried the Open Office. Will download it today. If it is pretty much the same as Star Office, except for the licensing, I guess it would be just GREAT. And Pappu, point noted. Thanks. The GNU is the way to go :-) Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 09:17:57 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:47:57 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] Windoze syllabus for +2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1204.192.168.0.8.996743877.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > 11 Std consists of Fox pro programming and M$ Word > > 12 Std consists of Fox pro advanced programming and Advanced -:) Windoze > Word and Excel. > > something should be done about this or else all the students will be brain > damaged. We can contact the Kendriya Vidyalaya Sangathan in delhi may be FSF can pursue this issue. cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 09:54:11 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 15:24:11 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Windoze syllabus for +2 References: Message-ID: <3B692343.BF272DA6@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------383C0F3949D5490482B38CEE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jayan S R wrote: > what can we do about this? > > The KV school syllabus for Computer Science 11th and 12th have changed > last year from C ans C++ to the following. > > 11 Std consists of Fox pro programming and M$ Word > > 12 Std consists of Fox pro advanced programming and Advanced -:) Windoze > Word and Excel. > Including the products from specific vendors in the syllabus of a course only shows the lack of understanding of those who did it. It is perfectly okey to teach a language like C or C++ but instead of Fox-Pro, it should have been RDBMS systems and SQL with example systems. It is a waste of time to comment on the logic of including Word or Excel in a syllabus. Anyway this should bu pointed out to the attention of those who are responsible. ajith --------------383C0F3949D5490482B38CEE Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------383C0F3949D5490482B38CEE-- From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:10:05 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 15:40:05 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: Message-ID: <3B6926FD.CB02FB5B@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8AEB0696164008BE8547E240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit R Sai Kiran wrote: > Hi, > > A quick intro - I'm 20 yr chap doing my 4th year Chemical Engg. at > IIT Madras. > So, getting people to try out Linux implies that you'll have to spend > quite some time discussing the various issues in favour of Linux, get the > teachers familiarised with it, lots of patience etc. It would be great if > we could get more volunteers in this regard. I'm ready from Chennai (and > places in and around it .. I love driving :-) > What you should do is write to the heads of few colleges and schools about Free software offering a talk and demonstration. Talk should stress more on the philosophy of 'freedom' and demo should talk about the technical merits. If you can rent an LCD projector and show something like 'gimp', even the diehard Window user will have second thoughts. If you don't talk about the philosophy behind 'free sofware', always there will be people trying to compare MS with GNU/Linux by bringing out irrelevent details. It is difficult to convince an average user about the quality and reliability of an OS but he will easily see the 'advantage ' of having two more fonts supported by his word processor. Anyway these are my personal *untested* opinion only. ajith > > > status at many places is, they just have MSWindows running and the > > "Educational Software" is MS-Office. But without an easy to use word processor, > > many won't switch over. I use 'abiword' and find it very good. > > Another aspect is the kind of machines owned by achools. Many may have > > Pentium-I machines still running. RedHat 7.1 or any latest distributions are > > not going to run on it comfortably. They can run as good X-terminals. One > > good place to look for is the Linux Terminal Server Project homepage. > > www.ltsp.org. A networked system is anyway a must in schools to have > > teacher-student interaction. > > Abiword is good. I'd actually suggest Star-Office. The nice thing > about having people start off with Star-Office is the ability to have them > save their files in native Windows formats like .doc, .ppt etc. I mean, if > a teacher has to, say, give a presentation, the machine she'd use to give > it would more probably than not, have Win on it. Until and unless they > have Linux on all machines, we'd rather not assume so. Regarding the OS > flavour, I'm pretty much in favour of LTSP. On the server, personally, I'd > say Red Hat 6.2 over 7.1. Don't aske me why ... I just find it a *LOT* > more comfortable, and definitely so for a newbie. Just a personal opinion. > > I might have made some extremely stupid/WRONG statements in > the paragraphs above. If you find something wrong, feel free to flame me > :-). > > Regards, > > Sai > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Recursion n: > See Recursion > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 > > _______________________________________________ > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india --------------8AEB0696164008BE8547E240 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------8AEB0696164008BE8547E240-- From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 09:57:43 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Vivek Agarwal) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:27:43 +0530 Subject: [Life] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01080215274304.00761@vivek> Hi, this is vivek agarwal. I am the CEO of egurucool.com. We offer a range courses to the students in schools through an intranet offering. This is a NT based application..please let me know the details of what exactly you are proposing for schools and let me see if we can hook in any way.. vivek On Tuesday 31 July 2001 11:28 pm, Frederick Noronha wrote: > Hi, There's a LIFE mailing list, running from Mumbai. Contact > life@mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in It's run from the Tata Institute of Fundamental > Research by Prof Nagarajuna. > Do send me your draft proposal too. Frederick Noronha, Freelance > Journalist, Goa. > > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Satyakam Goswami wrote: > > hi, > > i am working on a draft proposal for use of GNU/Linux in Schools > > anybody intrested in these kind of projects or if they are already > > working on something like this i would be glad to learn about it. > > > > cheers > > S.Goswami > > > > > > --------------------------------------- > > Archean Infotech > > Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar > > Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com > > Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 > > Mobile:9849016667 > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > This email was sent using SquirrelMail. > > "Webmail for nuts!" > > http://squirrelmail.org/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india > > _______________________________________________ > LIFE mailing list > LIFE@mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in > http://mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in/mailman/listinfo/life From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:17:36 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:47:36 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <00cb01c119d5$2123b040$2600a8c0@2> References: <00cb01c119d5$2123b040$2600a8c0@2> Message-ID: <1421.192.168.0.8.996747456.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > U might be aware of Life (linux for education) which was started by > Nagarjuna G. at Tata institute of Fund. Research. > > There are few gathered at mailing list for the purpose and all would be > able to find more like minded over there. There site is down and i tried calling nagarjun's number in Mumbai, nobody responded. S.Goswami ________________________________________ Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:31:48 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Parag Mehta) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 03:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <1421.192.168.0.8.996747456.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: Hi Satyakam, well nagarjuna is in hyderabad currently. his father is seriously ill and nobody other than him knows much about the serves and the mailing lists he runs in hbcse. regards, parag mehta. PS: i'll try to check as to what is wrong in life ml. i have access to that. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:38:05 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Parag Mehta) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 03:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <1421.192.168.0.8.996747456.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: Hi, i don't think the mailing list of LIFE is down. i just checked and it seems to be working fine. regards, parag mehta From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:57:16 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:27:16 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. Message-ID: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> Hello ever since I posted the MEC link (of RMS' talk at MEC) to linuxtoday.com and LWN, there had been a lot of activity, and people around the world are trying to download the Ogg files. Unfortunately the MEC website is terribly slow, and I had been getting mails asking me to setup a fast mirror. Since I have nothing to do with the recordings (I have those files with me though, I downloaded it before announcing it to the world anticipating problem), I had been redirecting those requests to other people in the college, and also to ragu who is near the college. I would like to have those files put on some fast webspace setup somewhere. I can put those files on a CD and send them to anyone (though it will occupy only small space of that CD). It is around 85MB. Some people in the US are trying to make a mirror, but they too couldn't download the whole thing due to bad connection. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 11:37:57 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (kiron v) Date: 2 Aug 2001 11:37:57 -0000 Subject: [FSF-India] Hi Message-ID: <20010802113757.22686.qmail@mailFA2.rediffmail.com> Hello, I am a new member in this mailing list. I am Kiron, a 3rd year Computer Science & Engg. student of the College of Engineering, Trivandrum. _________________________________________________________ For Rs. 2,000,000 worth of Aptech scholarships click below http://events.rediff.com/aptechsch/scholarship.htm From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:23:19 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Santhosh=20Narayana?=) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:23:19 +0100 (BST) Subject: [FSF-India] Anybody doing Free Software Projects in India Message-ID: <20010802102319.19569.qmail@web8005.mail.in.yahoo.com> Hi there, I'm a newbie to the list. Doing V Semester, GDIT, IIIT-Hyd. In IIIT-Hyd, 70% of programming is in Linux. Establishment of FSF-India is a brilliant move. Now its time to open a GNU/Linux Software Development Pool with in the FSF-India. Yes we should actively spread GNU/Linux solutions in India for their mere reliability alone. Affordability is an added reason. It's been long we keep using developed packages from the west. SuSe has a total german distribution of GNU/Linux. Aryabhatta Linux, an ambitious project reg the same was started by some members of ilughyd. May be we need to coordinate and bring together all the GNU/Linux developers onto a common platform and start working on good projects. Linux is a big success in China. If such an initiative materializes, pls inform for we would surely join hands minds for the same. -- Santhosh(99055) santhosh@gdit.iiit.net "GNU/Linux opens doors, not windows" ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? For regular News updates go to http://in.news.yahoo.com From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 11:48:21 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:18:21 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 at 16:27, Ramakrishnan M wrote: I would like to have those files put on some fast webspace setup somewhere. I can put those files on a CD and send them to anyone (though it will occupy only small space of that CD). It is around 85MB. Some people in the US are trying to make a mirror, but they too couldn't download the whole thing due to bad connection. I can help, please send me the CD. We can put these in the FSF site which is an independent server in UK and fast. No worries on space, we have enough. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 12:39:24 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satish Babu) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 05:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> Message-ID: <20010802123924.17169.qmail@web5105.mail.yahoo.com> I can offer this space on our US server, provided an IP-based URL is OK (something like http://203.200.144.114/rms_talk.ogg). It'll take me until tomorrow to get permission from the Administrators, though. Ciao Satish --- Ramakrishnan M wrote: > I would like to have those files put on some fast > webspace setup somewhere. I > can put those files on a CD and send them to anyone > (though it will occupy only > small space of that CD). It is around 85MB. Some __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 12:59:58 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Jeffrin Jose T.) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:29:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> References: <3B665625.1A038AF2@nsc.ernet.in> <2136.192.168.0.2.996591370.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> Message-ID: <20010802182958.C1366@msservices.org> Hello , GNU/Linux Terminal Server for schools. A package for easy GNU/Linux terminal server installation. http://freshmeat.net/redir/termserv/16721/url_homepage/ For Debian GNU/Linux user's deb http://termserv.berlios.de/debian stable main can help. -- Jeffrin Jose T. Mission System's and Services. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 13:02:57 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:32:57 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Anybody doing Free Software Projects in India In-Reply-To: <20010802102319.19569.qmail@web8005.mail.in.yahoo.com>; from santhosh2708@yahoo.co.in on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:23:19AM +0100 References: <20010802102319.19569.qmail@web8005.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010802183257.A9602@mailandnews.com> On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:23:19AM +0100, Santhosh Narayana wrote: > Yes we should actively spread GNU/Linux solutions in > India for their mere reliability alone. Affordability > is an added reason. Freedom is the primary reason. Others just comes along. > > GNU/Linux. Aryabhatta Linux, an ambitious project reg > the same was started by some members of ilughyd. May > be we need to coordinate and bring together all the > GNU/Linux developers onto a common platform and start > working on good projects. Are you hinting towards a new distribution? > > If such an initiative materializes, pls inform for we > would surely join hands minds for the same. If you are talking of free software development, check out On the other hand, if you are talking of yet another distribution, is it really required? bye, pappu. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 13:27:57 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Mohit Agarwal) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:57:57 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> Message-ID: Today at 16:27 +0530, Ramakrishnan M wrote: : ever since I posted the MEC link (of RMS' talk at MEC) to linuxtoday.com and : LWN, there had been a lot of activity, and people around the world are trying : to download the Ogg files. Unfortunately the MEC website is terribly slow, and [...] : I would like to have those files put on some fast webspace setup somewhere. I Well, you can access the files at: http://ramanujan.aero.iisc.ernet.in/RMS-Jul2001/ ftp://ramanujan.aero.iisc.ernet.in/RMS-Jul2001/ mohit From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 13:48:31 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:18:31 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GPL to be tested in court (maybe) Message-ID: <15209.23087.239375.788934@mail.linux-delhi.org> http://www.linuxgram.com/article.pl?sid=01/07/24/1456206 [Excerpt] NuSphere Sued for Breaking GPL Tuesday, July 24th, 2001 by G2News Relations between NuSphere and MySQL have come a cropper. MySQL AB, the Swedish software house that developed the MySQL database, has terminated its distribution arrangement with NuSphere. NuSphere says it can?t. NuSphere is suing MySQL for breach of contract and MySQL has countersued for trademark infringement, slapping NuSphere with a secondary, but very incendiary, claim of breaking the GPL. Regards, -- Raju -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 13:54:03 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:24:03 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <3B6926FD.CB02FB5B@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: Hi, > What you should do is write to the heads of few colleges and schools about > Free software offering a talk and demonstration. We've actually got lot more work to do before that. I'd seriously suggest that the "GNU/Linux for Schools Project" be added to the FSF-I Projects page in the FSF-I website. We *need* volunteers. What I think we should do is decide upon a set of software most relevant to schools and pack it up into a CD. What should be included and what should'nt can be the subject of an interesting thread. I mean, some of the members of the list may have objections in including stuff whivh is not 'GPL'ed. But, I think that any Linux distro which does'nt have, say, Pine, is BAD (just a personal opinion, I *love* Pine). > Talk should stress more on the philosophy of 'freedom' and demo should > talk about the technical merits. If you can rent an LCD projector and > show something like 'gimp', even the diehard Window user will have > second thoughts. Oh, there are far too many things we can talk about, which I'm sure will impress the Windows guys. I was actually asked to give a talk on GNU/Linux during my summer job. Unfortunately, that got packed due to the political happenings in Tamilnadu that weekend :-(. I had prepared a good list of stuff to talk about. GIMP is definitely one of the best examples. Others would be the ability of Abiword, Gnumeric etc. to save files in PDF format, the X-window system, the KOffice suite (I have'nt really used it extensively, but it's cool. You can embed a doc in a chart etc.), the Apache webserver (which Microsoft still uses on the Hotmail servers) ... the list just keeps going on and on and ..... > If you don't talk about the philosophy behind 'free sofware', always > there will be people trying to compare MS with GNU/Linux by bringing > out irrelevent details. It is difficult to convince an average user > about the quality and reliability of an OS but he will easily see the > 'advantage ' of having two more fonts supported by his word processor. Yes...the main purpose is to spread the philosophy. But, we should'nt directly attack from the philosophy point. Talk about ths different software tools you get and how the "freedom" makes life happier to you. Also, a small comparison between the MS End User License Agreement and the GPL will drive the point home *very* elegantly :-) Please feel free to condemn my opinions. Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 14:12:34 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:42:34 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. Message-ID: Hello, As of now, I do not have access to a linux machine. Is there any way of accessing those files from my windows NT machine? Or is there any transcript available? Thanks. Ramesh. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 14:32:20 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:02:20 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <20010802123924.17169.qmail@web5105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 at 05:39, Satish Babu wrote: I can offer this space on our US server, provided an IP-based URL is OK (something like http://203.200.144.114/rms_talk.ogg). It'll take me until tomorrow to get permission from the Administrators, though. Our own http://www.gnu.org.in has sufficient space (2GB) is based in UK. We shall use it for the above purpose. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 15:16:34 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:46:34 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, R Sai Kiran wrote: > We've actually got lot more work to do before that. I'd seriously > suggest that the "GNU/Linux for Schools Project" be added to the > FSF-I Projects page in the FSF-I website. Yes, This is a great idea. A set of softwares for school should be identified and if possible made available in a CD for an easy install for the schools. We the Trivandrum GNU/Linux group had a chance to install the GNU system in one of the schools here some time before. In that school the person who was overall in charge was in favor of a GNU system but we had to face opposition from the staff, whose attitude was like "we had a great difficulty learning windows, and now you want us to forget all these and learn a new thing with lots of command huh? All the GNU stuff is great but find some one else to teach all these". This I believe will be the typical problem that we are going to face in most schools where the staff may not have core education in computers. She may be having basic qualification in some other subject with some certification in Computers and basic knowledge to use Winxx and MS Office, and computers may be one of the subj that is thought by her. So in order to over come this a good support structure is required. But things gets much easier if we can find people in the teacher community to take initative. > What I think we should do is decide upon a set of software most > relevant to schools and pack it up into a CD. What should be > included and what shouldn't can be the subject of an interesting > thread. Their are four uses of computer in Schools one to learn to effectively use a computer as a tool. In this skills like word processing, emailing, web browsing etc are imparted. Then the use of computer as a learning aid. The computer is used as a supplement to the various classes, assignments and other learning aids. Some of the tools required are multimedia CDs, Simulation of molecular structures etc.... Third the use of computer to learn to program a computer. The general languages databases etc.. Finally the use of computer as an office automation tool like any other office for the school admin. All the three may not be exclusive but require separate attention. These are some of my random thoughts... raj From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 15:44:17 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:14:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1248.192.168.0.2.996767057.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > Hello, > > As of now, I do not have access to a linux machine. Is there any way of > accessing those files from my windows NT machine? Or is there any > transcript available? Thanks. Winamp, maybe freeamp i din't check with that or may be good old media player (/me doub'ts if its calledby the same name now ). cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 15:58:14 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:28:14 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] Anybody doing Free Software Projects in India In-Reply-To: <20010802102319.19569.qmail@web8005.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, [iso-8859-1] Santhosh Narayana wrote: > I'm a newbie to the list. Doing V Semester, GDIT, > IIIT-Hyd. In IIIT-Hyd, 70% of programming is in Linux. Hello!! > Aryabhatta Linux, an ambitious project reg the same was started by > some members of ilughyd. We have started in Trivandrum a similar project to enable non trivial computation in local languages called project Indigo. (www.inapp.com/tuxila). We stated off on Jan and I was working on rendering Malayalam using Pango. Devanagiri and Tamil already has modules to take care of this. Our final aim is to have a distribution of GNU system where it is possible to use Local languages, like the German SuSe. I had a chance to talk to Ms Amba Kulkarni of IIIT-Hyd about this and she was interested in doing some localization for Star Office. May be you should talk to her if you are interested. CDAC was also interested in getting Mozilla localized. As of our own progress we were going pretty nicely but most of the core team members were involved in the Inauguration of FSF India and thus the project suffered. We are starting from where we left off now. Hope fully you can expect some result from us soon raj From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 14:15:19 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:45:19 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] [Fwd: RE: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer] Message-ID: <3B696077.57B5466B@eth.net> hi What should we obey. Indian Laws or US Laws ? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:03:39 -0400 From: "Peter" To: "Paul Callahan" , Probably they have some part-time students sitting there and sending out already made e-mails :-))) Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org My response to Senator Botster: Dear Senator Boxer: I appreciate your timely response. You may be unaware that my letter did not concern Napster, but in fact concerned Dmitry Sklyarov, a visiting scholar who is being held in federal custody by our government. His home is in Russia and he is currently being held far from his family despite having committed no crime in his own country, despite that he poses no danger to our society, and despite the fact that his original accusers Adobe Software have disavowed any support of his arrest. As a computer scientist who has presented research both here and abroad, I take a great interest in our treatment of visiting computer researchers. I also consider the anti-circumvention provision of DMCA to be an unworkable law, and its criminal prosecution to be a gross injustice. If you have not done so already, please inform yourself on the implications of DMCA to the longstanding notion of fair use in copyright law. Rep. Rick Boucher (D-VA) has written on this topic: http://www.house.gov/boucher/docs/fairuse.htm I eagerly await any relevant information you can supply regarding your stance on DMCA and the Dmitry Sklyarov case in particular. Sincerely, Paul Callahan --- Paul Callahan wrote: > Gotta wonder what kind of bot they have responding > to > Senator Boxer's email. Here's the response to a > letter > I sent "regrading" Sklyarov and DMCA: > > Dear Mr. Callahan: > > Thank you for your recent communication > regrading Napster. As you may already know, both > the United States District Court and a United > States Court of Appeals have ruled that Napster > encourages and assists copyright infringement of > copyrighted music. This decision restates the > important fact that in our country we value > property rights, whether its music that a writer > has created or the car that you drive. Neither > can legally be taken from you without > compensation. > > I strongly support the advancement of > technology and innovation on the Internet and > desire that all consumers be able to get music in > the electronic marketplace. But such advances must > also accompany respect for others' creations. > Those who invest in the creation of music, whether > it be an artist or record label, deserve to be paid > for the use of their music. > > The technology Napster employs holds great > promise. It is my hope that such peer to peer > technology will be available legitimately and that > the idea that Napster has invented will become > available to consumers in a legal manner very soon. > > Thank you for contacting me on this important > issue. > > --Paul > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 15:39:27 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 21:09:27 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Anybody doing Free Software Projects in India References: <20010802102319.19569.qmail@web8005.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B69742F.AFEA9B78@eth.net> hi I think we should have a word processor in Indian Languages. M.Balakrishna Pillai Santhosh Narayana wrote: > > Hi there, > I'm a newbie to the list. Doing V Semester, GDIT, > IIIT-Hyd. In IIIT-Hyd, 70% of programming is in Linux. > Establishment of FSF-India is a brilliant move. > Now its time to open a GNU/Linux Software Development > Pool with in the FSF-India. > > Yes we should actively spread GNU/Linux solutions in > India for their mere reliability alone. Affordability > is an added reason. > > It's been long we keep using developed packages from > the west. SuSe has a total german distribution of > GNU/Linux. Aryabhatta Linux, an ambitious project reg > the same was started by some members of ilughyd. May > be we need to coordinate and bring together all the > GNU/Linux developers onto a common platform and start > working on good projects. > > Linux is a big success in China. > > If such an initiative materializes, pls inform for we > would surely join hands minds for the same. > > -- > Santhosh(99055) > santhosh@gdit.iiit.net > "GNU/Linux opens doors, not windows" > > ____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > For regular News updates go to http://in.news.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 16:21:36 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:51:36 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> References: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> Message-ID: <20010802215136.A2040@debianut.ekmnet> [Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 04:27:16PM +0530] Ramakrishnan M. : > ragu who is near the college Had been to the MeC and started an rsync session for the .dk mirror today at about 1530 HRS IST. You have to follow up with Ole and get a feedback from him as to what is happening. Please ask him whether his files have been synced properly. Shall I send a CD copy given to me by the MeC to Radi tomorrow ? -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Keeping the Air-Waves FREE...........Amateur Radio Keeping your Software FREE.........the GNU Project Keeping the W W W FREE....Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 16:50:44 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:20:44 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <20010802215136.A2040@debianut.ekmnet> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 at 21:51, Raghavendra Bhat wrote: Shall I send a CD copy given to me by the MeC to Radi tomorrow? That would be fine. But I copied Cochin talk from the CTAN mirror to our site and is now available at: http://www.gnu.org.in/download/RMS-Cochin/ -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 17:18:11 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:48:11 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, > Yes, This is a great idea. A set of softwares for school should be > identified and if possible made available in a CD for an easy install > for the schools. For this again, I'd suggest Red Hat 6.2 as the base development flavour. Anaconda really makes installation very peaceful. > So in order to over come this a good support structure is required. > But things gets much easier if we can find people in the teacher > community to take initative. We can also place a lot more emphasis on the GUI based configuration tools. Gone are the days when you *HAD* to use a shell to do any administrative task. There are GUI applications to do most of this work. For example, GnoRPM, Disk Management, User Management, GnoSamba etc. The interface is also fairly intuitive. It's just upto us guys to keep the "geekness" aside and demonstrate the use of these tools :-). Seriously, most experienced users (includes me too) tend to use the shell a lot more than the GUI. It just gives the newbie a feeling that he has to learn lots of new "commands". Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 18:04:02 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:34:02 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, R Sai Kiran wrote: > For this again, I'd suggest Red Hat 6.2 as the base development > flavour. Anaconda really makes installation very peaceful. Hm.... Debian is also cool. But these are the last decisions to be made. Can we all work together to identify a list of softwares that can be used in schools both for basic use as well as as teaching aids raj From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 17:38:05 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 23:08:05 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fastwebspace. References: Message-ID: <3B698FFD.2CFA7892@eth.net> Hello You cannot, unless GNU/Linux machine permits you. Install Debian GNU/Linux or any other distribution. It is very easy. Ofcourse you have to read the documentation, for which Debian is the best. Here in Kochi a +1 student - vipil_vicky@rediffmail.com - had installed GNU/Linux without any personal help. I think now he is learning various GNU utilities and programmes. M.Balakrishna Pillai lramesh@in.ibm.com wrote: > > Hello, > > As of now, I do not have access to a linux machine. Is there any way of > accessing those files from my windows NT machine? Or is there any > transcript available? Thanks. > > Ramesh. > > _______________________________________________ > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 17:37:40 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 23:07:40 +0530 Subject: [Life] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: <01080215274304.00761@vivek> Message-ID: <3B698FE4.4F2C6D55@eth.net> Dear Vivek It is regarding a computing utilities and operating system that a computer user can use, modify and distribute without spending money on software licences and breaking laws of any country in the world. You can setup anything including WEB servers, supercomputers etc without paying anything for the software licence and they are GNU (www.gnu.org www.gnu.org.in [india chapter]) working on the 'top' of Linux kernel. M.Balakrishna Pillai Vivek Agarwal wrote: > > Hi, > > this is vivek agarwal. I am the CEO of egurucool.com. We offer a range > courses to the students in schools through an intranet offering. This is a NT > based application..please let me know the details of what exactly you are > proposing for schools and let me see if we can hook in any way.. > > vivek > > On Tuesday 31 July 2001 11:28 pm, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > Hi, There's a LIFE mailing list, running from Mumbai. Contact > > life@mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in It's run from the Tata Institute of Fundamental > > Research by Prof Nagarajuna. > > Do send me your draft proposal too. Frederick Noronha, Freelance > > Journalist, Goa. > > > > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Satyakam Goswami wrote: > > > hi, > > > i am working on a draft proposal for use of GNU/Linux in Schools > > > anybody intrested in these kind of projects or if they are already > > > working on something like this i would be glad to learn about it. > > > > > > cheers > > > S.Goswami > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------- > > > Archean Infotech > > > Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar > > > Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com > > > Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 > > > Mobile:9849016667 > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > This email was sent using SquirrelMail. > > > "Webmail for nuts!" > > > http://squirrelmail.org/ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india > > > > _______________________________________________ > > LIFE mailing list > > LIFE@mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in > > http://mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in/mailman/listinfo/life > _______________________________________________ > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 18:02:10 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:32:10 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] What goes in In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, > > Their are four uses of computer in Schools Very interesting classification indeed. Essentially, > 1. Tools - word processors,email clients,browsers etc > 2. Learning aid - multimedia, simulation stuff etc > 3. Development - compilers etc > 4. Automation tool As I said earlier, I think this topic deserves a separate thread. I've taken the liberty of strting this one. As a first shot, I'd suggest the following stuff: Tools ------ 1. Open Office, Emacs, Vim 2. Evolution, Pine(?), Mutt 3. Netscape(?), Konqueror, Lynx, Opera Learning Aids -------------- 1. Scilab 2. Gnuplot Really dont know what to put here. Any suggestions?? Learning reminds me, we need to put in a lot of docs. Probably a few guides like the SAG, installation guide, a few good HOW-TOs etc. Development ------------ 1. K-Develop 2. All the typical compilers/interpreters anyone would ever want C,C++,Perl,Python,PHP .... 3. JDK 4. Forte4Java from Sun - IDE for developing GUI based Java progs Automation tools ----------------- No idea again .... suggestions please!! Plus, Ofcourse --------------- * Apache * MySQL/Postgres - I use MySQL and I love it * XMMS * Everybuddy * Obviously, GNOME + KDE - but, which versions?? Ximian and KDE 2.0 are both *very* resource hungry and we're talking of schools with slow computers. What should be done ? Let's pile up the list of softwares. If you think there's something in the list above which should not be included, let me know. And I'm really very sure there's far too much stuff I've missed out. Please keep adding to the list. Having more really does'nt hurt. We can always have a 2-CD distribution. The point is to give the people everything they'll ever need on the CD(s) so they'll never have to download anything on their dial-up lines. Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 15:52:27 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:22:27 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: ; from ch98086@che.iitm.ac.in on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 07:24:03PM +0530 References: <3B6926FD.CB02FB5B@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: <20010802212227.A10536@mailandnews.com> On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 07:24:03PM +0530, R Sai Kiran wrote: > > I mean, some of the members of the list may have objections in including > stuff whivh is not 'GPL'ed. But, I think that any Linux distro which > does'nt have, say, Pine, is BAD (just a personal opinion, I *love* Pine). The answer to this can be found in any of RMS's speech on free software. People who have objections in including non GPL'ed stuff (me for eg.) do have valid reason for that. The primary objective here is freedom and not utility or fancy features. As RMS says, If we set our eyes on a goal, and work towards it, we will finally (may take a long time) reach it. But on the way, if we see some temptations and change our direction, we will never reach our goal (which is freedom). If we get addicted to at least one non free software, and can't live without it, all the free software can't help us. For eg: take the above quoted fact. One person can't avoid using a non free software called pine even when there exists free software like mutt that provides similar functionality. So how can we help some one out of the non free world by giving them alternate non free software to use. Recomending pine instead of outlook express is simply switching wendors of non free software. This will boil down to just anti microsoft sentiments and won't help any one achieve freedom. Please note that the goal of FSF and GNU project is not shutting down microsoft. So if we consider that it is bad to use Internet explorer, it is equally bad to use netscape communicator (not mozilla). > Yes...the main purpose is to spread the philosophy. But, we > should'nt directly attack from the philosophy point. Why >>attack<< in the first place? If people don't understand the word freedom, we can ask them to read their 10th std history text books. I once again stress that the mission is not to convert all windows users to GNU/Linux users. The mission is to tell people about FREE software and help them to start using FREE software. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 19:04:23 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:34:23 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] What goes in In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2037.192.168.0.2.996779063.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > > Hi, > >> >> Their are four uses of computer in Schools > > Very interesting classification indeed. Essentially, > >> 1. Tools - word processors,email clients,browsers etc >> 2. Learning aid - multimedia, simulation stuff etc >> 3. Development - compilers etc >> 4. Automation tool > > As I said earlier, I think this topic deserves a separate > thread. I've taken the liberty of strting this one. As a first shot, I'd > suggest the following stuff: > > Tools > ------ > 1. Open Office, Emacs, Vim > 2. Evolution, Pine(?), Mutt > 3. Netscape(?), Konqueror, Lynx, Opera Mozilla > > Learning Aids > -------------- > 1. Scilab > 2. Gnuplot > > Really dont know what to put here. Any suggestions?? > > Learning reminds me, we need to put in a lot of docs. Probably a > few guides like the SAG, installation guide, a few good HOW-TOs etc. Whole of the LDP ,this will go on the intranet. > > Development > ------------ > 1. K-Develop > 2. All the typical compilers/interpreters anyone would ever want > C,C++,Perl,Python,PHP .... pascal is widely used, cobal too.. > 3. JDK > 4. Forte4Java from Sun - IDE for developing GUI based Java progs i think we can find better alternative than that Free Ones i mean. > > Automation tools > ----------------- > No idea again .... suggestions please!! what automation tools are we talkin about here... > > Plus, Ofcourse > --------------- > * Apache > * MySQL/Postgres - I use MySQL and I love it Mysql with uncertain future and licensing issues we better avoid it. > * XMMS > * Everybuddy > * Obviously, GNOME + KDE - but, which versions?? Ximian and KDE > 2.0 are both *very* resource hungry and we're talking of schools with > slow computers. What should be done ? blackbox,fvwm or windowmaker > > Let's pile up the list of softwares. If you think there's > something in the list above which should not be included, let me know. And > I'm really very sure there's far too much stuff I've missed out. Please > keep adding to the list. Having more really does'nt hurt. We can always > have a 2-CD distribution. The point is to give the people everything > they'll ever need on the CD(s) so they'll never have to download anything > on their dial-up lines. i think they are pretty much there in any distribution ,its just a matter of showing them where and howto of the stuff + the FREEDOM. cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 01:45:24 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:15:24 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: References: <20010802215136.A2040@debianut.ekmnet> Message-ID: <20010803071524.A2945@debianut.ekmnet> [Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:20:44PM +0530] Radhakrishnan: > I copied Cochin talk from the CTAN mirror to our site > and is now available at: > > http://www.gnu.org.in/download/RMS-Cochin/ An md5checksum file has to be generated and put up along-with the Ogg-Vorbis files. This would be most helpful for people wanting to check the files after downloading the Kochi talks. -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Keeping the Air-Waves FREE...........Amateur Radio Keeping your Software FREE.........the GNU Project Keeping the W W W FREE....Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 03:06:26 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Abhas Abhinav) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:36:26 +0430 (AFT) Subject: [FSF-India] Anybody doing Free Software Projects in India In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Rajkumar S. wrote... >to talk to Ms Amba Kulkarni of IIIT-Hyd about this and she was >interested in doing some localization for Star Office. May be you >should talk to her if you are interested. Guys at NCST, Bangalore are already working on this and have been at it for at least three months now - their project is called vartalaap - and its about have an indianised version of OpenOffice. The last time i talked to one of the developers, they had mnaged to compile the wholeof Open Office on their own and were getting down to understanding the code and customising it... IIT, Madras also has a similar project where they are trying to localise the interface - i don't know what their approach is but they are also doing something about it.... The NCST guys are pretty much ahead on this, though.. cheers, abhas. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 03:30:58 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 09:00:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. References: Message-ID: <3B6A1AF2.F75BB075@ti.com> Radhakrishnan C V wrote: > > That would be fine. > > But I copied Cochin talk from the CTAN mirror to our site and is now > available at: > > http://www.gnu.org.in/download/RMS-Cochin/ Thanks to everyone. I have intimated the people who asked me for the files the new locations. Ragu, can you anyway send the files to CVR? Because as you said, the md5sums may differ. It's better to have the original files hosted at gnu.org.in website. I have also intimated audio-recordings@gnu.org the location of the files, so that they can mirror them. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:51:12 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:21:12 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: ; from mohit@cfdlab.aero.iisc.ernet.in on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:19:30AM +0530 References: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: <20010802162112.A778@orion> On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:19:30AM +0530, Mohit Agarwal wrote: > M$ windoughs `word' perfectly! Have you ever heard of something called > TeX or LaTeX? A program called `lyx' -- distributed under the GNU GPL -- LyX cant be used in a completely Free System since it links with non-free XForms libs. There is a KDE version available may be thats free. Abiword can export in LaTeX. Arun. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 04:50:07 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:20:07 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: Message-ID: <3B6A2D7F.36BACCF8@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5F9B306ED8281CABF44E61D9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit R Sai Kiran wrote: > Hi, > > > What you should do is write to the heads of few colleges and schools about > > Free software offering a talk and demonstration. > > We've actually got lot more work to do before that. I'd seriously > suggest that the "GNU/Linux for Schools Project" be added to the FSF-I > Projects page in the FSF-I website. We *need* volunteers. What I think we > should do is decide upon a set of software most relevant to schools and What I wrote is based on my personal experience. We cannot decide what is needed for the scools and colleges on a mailing list or in a closed group. Two years back I gave a talk on GNU/Linux at a college in Calicut. Demonstrated the installation procedure. Got few of the teachers interested after a while. Dept. of physics needs to do some work in C -- it is in the university syllabus -- and they were using Borland C++ IDE. I send them a copy of RHIDE IDE and they were about to change but another problem cropped up. The output of their programs require graphics. It is simple but they have to learn X-window graphics to do that. I have been doing all my work using Motif but something like gtk, with glade, seems to be a better choice today. Now i am trying to write some small example programs to get them started. The point i am trying to make is, you have to interact with the schools and colleges first to find out what they need. That must be provided if they are concerned about them. The approch of "Take this package. this is good for you" may not work. You need a very practical approach here. I am developing programs for physics research on GNU/Linux systems from 1994 onwards and have a strong attachment to it. But that is not a selling point. We need to help others solving their problems using free software along with talking about the philosophy of free software. I am attaching the C code I received and need to be converted into X-Windows. I dont think going back to SVGA LIB is a nice idea. If anybody think this particular topic is taking too much of this list please dont hesitate to point out. ajith > pack it up into a CD. What should be included and what should'nt can be > the subject of an interesting thread. I mean, some of the members of the > list may have objections in including stuff whivh is not 'GPL'ed. But, I > think that any Linux distro which does'nt have, say, Pine, is BAD (just a > personal opinion, I *love* Pine). > > > Talk should stress more on the philosophy of 'freedom' and demo should > > talk about the technical merits. If you can rent an LCD projector and > > show something like 'gimp', even the diehard Window user will have > > second thoughts. > > Oh, there are far too many things we can talk about, which I'm > sure will impress the Windows guys. I was actually asked to give a talk on > GNU/Linux during my summer job. Unfortunately, that got packed due to the > political happenings in Tamilnadu that weekend :-(. I had prepared a good > list of stuff to talk about. GIMP is definitely one of the best > examples. Others would be the ability of Abiword, Gnumeric etc. to save > files in PDF format, the X-window system, the KOffice suite (I have'nt > really used it extensively, but it's cool. You can embed a doc in a chart > If you gave a demo today using Kword, you are in for surprices. It dumps core very often. Great features but more work needed to make it reliable. Abiword is small but very reliable. > etc.), the Apache webserver (which Microsoft still uses on the Hotmail > servers) ... the list just keeps going on and on and ..... > > > If you don't talk about the philosophy behind 'free sofware', always > > there will be people trying to compare MS with GNU/Linux by bringing > > out irrelevent details. It is difficult to convince an average user > > about the quality and reliability of an OS but he will easily see the > > 'advantage ' of having two more fonts supported by his word processor. > > Yes...the main purpose is to spread the philosophy. But, we > should'nt directly attack from the philosophy point. Talk about ths > different software tools you get and how the "freedom" makes life happier > to you. Also, a small comparison between the MS End User License Agreement > and the GPL will drive the point home *very* elegantly :-) > > Please feel free to condemn my opinions. > > Regards, > > Sai > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Recursion n: > See Recursion > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 > > _______________________________________________ > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india --------------5F9B306ED8281CABF44E61D9 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------5F9B306ED8281CABF44E61D9-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 05:10:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:40:08 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] gtk help Message-ID: <3B6A3230.BF167E4@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F77F8E5E7110A8E56215B3DB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello can anyone help in converting this to gtk undel GNU/Linux. ajith --------------F77F8E5E7110A8E56215B3DB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="cfm.c" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="cfm.c" //PROG.001: MOTION OF A PARTICLE IN CENTRAL FORCE FILELD // Program name: CFM.C #include #include #include #define PI 3.141 main() { int gd=DETECT,gm,maxx,maxy,xpt,ypt,i; float vel,dir_rad,dir_theta,ax,ay,t,Tmax,dt=0.01; float vx,vy,x,y,dx,dy,dvx,dvy,r,k=-25,m=0.10; float accel(float,float,float,float); printf("\nEnter position x,y "); scanf("%f,%f",&x,&y); printf("\nEnter velocity and direction "); scanf("%f,%f",&vel,&dir_theta); printf("\nEnter max. time of study (s)"); scanf("%f",&Tmax); dir_rad=dir_theta*PI/180.0; vx=vel*cos(dir_rad); vy=vel*sin(dir_rad); initgraph(&gd,&gm,"d:\\tc\\bgi"); maxx=getmaxx(); maxy=getmaxy(); setcolor(GREEN); setviewport(120,40,520,440,1); rectangle(0,0,400,400); putpixel(200,200,RED); for(i=0;i<=400;i=i+5) { putpixel(i,200,BLUE); putpixel(200,i,BLUE); } for(t=0;t<=Tmax;t=t+dt) { r=sqrt(x*x + y*y); ax=accel(x,r,k,m); ay=accel(y,r,k,m); vx=vx+ax*dt; vy=vy+ay*dt; x=x+vx*dt; y=y+vy*dt; xpt=(x+20)*400/40; ypt=400-(y+20)*400/40; putpixel(xpt,ypt,YELLOW); delay(10); } printf("\n PARTICLE MOVING IN A CENTRAL FORCE FIELD"); printf("\nk=%4.2f(SIu)",k); printf("\nV=%4.2fm/s",vel); printf("\nang=%4.2fd",dir_theta); printf("\nmass=%4.2fkg",m); sound(100); delay(100); nosound(); getch(); restorecrtmode(); } // Modify this function for differet types of // central forces float accel(float a, float d, float fk, float mass) { float acc; acc=fk*a/(mass*d*d*d); return(acc); } --------------F77F8E5E7110A8E56215B3DB Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------F77F8E5E7110A8E56215B3DB-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 06:02:43 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:32:43 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Sublists Message-ID: It seems that we need to have more sublists based on themes now under extensive deliberation like: 1. Free Software in Education 2. Programming and technical 3. Projects, developer coordination 4. General (philosophy, events, licence, etc) 5. ... I would request the opinion of all on the question of whether we shall have separate lists for the above and other items that may come up in future. The point is that some of our subscribers might be least interested to receive post that has no direct influence in their lives and we run the risk of unsubscribing owing to the vast number of mails to their boxes. Sublists have yet another distinction of systematically separating the topics and anyone who wants to see the archives in future can easily locate the posts relating to a specific theme. We might keep the root list as a general discussion forum and an announcement list for the major resolutions made in the sublists and other matters relevant to the Free Software community. Any thoughts? -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 06:14:43 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (KG Kumar) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:44:43 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] RMS profiled Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010803114243.00a4ec60@mail.myiris.com> --=======64402212======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-13544852; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed RMS has been profiled in the 30 July issue of BusinessWorld (2 pages) and in the current, 3 August issue of the Malayalam weekly, Malayalam Varika (5.5 pages). --=======64402212======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-13544852 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/01 --=======64402212=======-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 09:00:38 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Sojish K) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 02:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] unsuscribe In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010803114243.00a4ec60@mail.myiris.com> Message-ID: <20010803090038.18365.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> please unsuscribe me from mailing list ===== //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // SOJISH K. // // homepage: www.sojishk.com // //--------------------------------------------------------// // "Ki tikk gayi ho jab nazar kisiki manzil // // Use hai wasta kya rasto.n ke dero.n se." // //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 09:05:31 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:35:31 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <20010802212227.A10536@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: Hi, > and not utility or fancy features. As RMS says, If we set our eyes on > a goal, and work towards it, we will finally (may take a long time) > reach it. But on the way, if we see some temptations and change our > direction, we will never reach our goal (which is freedom). > Please note that the goal of FSF and GNU project is not shutting down > microsoft. So if we consider that it is bad to use Internet explorer, > it is equally bad to use netscape communicator (not mozilla). Well, I have a slightly different point of view here. I claim that, you first get the people to start using the GNU/Linux systems, and very soon, the whole *philosophy* behind the movement becomes clear to them. The GNU + GPL is a rather new thing. We are in the initial phases of a huge revolution to come. I believe, the best idea now is to get people to start using GNU/Linux systems. I'm *NOT* supporting non-"free" software. I'm just saying that, we'll give them the GNU stuff. But, let's not pack the non-free stuff either. Probably, we can put all the non-free software in a separate path, or, the second CD, if we need to go for a 2-CD distro. Please note, all I'm saying is we really need people to start using GNU/Linux first. When I first started off with Linux, I had no idea of the philosophy, just knew that it was free (in the free beer sense of "free"). Over a short period of time after that, I came to know the background stuff, the philosopy. And now, I'm pretty much in love with it. It's the same with most people, I guess. I convinced one of my Professors here in campus to start using GNU/Linux. Initially, I just gave him a brief idea of the philosophy and told him that all tools he'd require (like code-libraries etc.) are free. Once he started using it, he really "felt" the difference. He advises students to use GNU/Linux these days. > > Yes...the main purpose is to spread the philosophy. But, > > we should'nt directly attack from the philosophy point. > Why >>attack<< in the first place? If people don't understand the > word freedom, we can ask them to read their 10th std history text > books. I once again stress that the mission is not to convert all > windows users to GNU/Linux users. The mission is to tell people > about FREE software and help them to start using FREE software. I totally accept. But, converting the Windows users to GNU/Linus users is the first step in making them use FREE software. Just my thoughts. Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 09:25:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:55:06 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <014b01c14b7e$93e97e40$d600a8c0@administrator> Message-ID: Hi, > Dont we feel this is the way (by using GUI exesively) Proprieteries have > handicapped lots of users around world? > I agree that we are trying to make it easier for them to use the Free > Software with it , but on the other hand we are making it more possible for > them not to look under the Hood, and the the real freedom lies there..... Nice arguement :-) Well, the point I was trying to make is, let's first get the users to feel to surface and they'll dig deeper themselves. Once you start using powerful applications, *LOTS* of them, which come free of cost (free as in "free" beer), you'd definitely wonder why so many people are giving their code free, even allowing people to make modifications to it. Further, there's the big question on "How does the developer survive". Atleast a good percentage of people would go to the GNU website to find out more. This curiosity, plus a realisation of the power of the "Free Software" philosophy would attract the people more. All these are just MY OPINIONS. Further, more the GNU users, more would be the funding, development etc. So, making the new user comfortable with the OS is central to the whole plan. > Again havnt prop. retained their command over the users by simply not > allowing them to use the "commands" on computers? More people I know have learnt their GNU/Linux principles, administration etc. reading the docs rather than attending Courses in professional coaching academies. It's the other way around for Windows. When the user suddenly realises there's something he's not able to do with the GUI, he'd get back to the docs. As long as the GUI does the job it is intended to, I think it's performing well and there's no reason to condemn it. It only makes it easier for people to *start* using GNU. When the needs increase, and if they find it necessary, they'll definitely get back to the command line. Again, these are just, my thoughts and I'd love to know others' opinions. Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 09:36:15 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:06:15 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <3B6A2D7F.36BACCF8@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: Hi, > The point i am trying to make is, you have to interact with the schools and > colleges first to find out what they need. That must be provided if they are > concerned about them. The approch of "Take this package. this is good for you" > may not work. You need a very practical approach here. That's a very neat suggestion. What's on my mind right now?? - as you suggested, I think we should first get the requirements right. How many people do we have here, and from which parts of the country. To my knowledge, there are a good chunk of people from Trivandrum and I'm from Chennai. What we could do is, decide upon a standard format questionnaire kind of a thing. A few simple questions like what software is currently being used in their machines (the most obvious one ofcourse, but I'm sure we can get a lot more). Basically, what we could call a "market survey" :-). Identify the top, say 10 or 20 schools in cities where we have volunteers and actually, PHYSICALLY go to the school give them the forms and get the responses. I think email/snail mail will not work. It might be a little painful for the volunteers, but, I think it's necessary. I'm ready to do this in Chennai. Any better ideas .. or think this one is stupid, please let me know. Also, anybody and everybody on the list interested in helping, please come forward and tell us. We need more ideas. The way the discussions are progressing, we might be onto something *GOOD*. :-) Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 10:49:23 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:19:23 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: ; from ch98086@che.iitm.ac.in on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 02:35:31PM +0530 References: <20010802212227.A10536@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: <20010803161923.A18113@mailandnews.com> On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 02:35:31PM +0530, R Sai Kiran wrote: > > Well, I have a slightly different point of view here. I claim > that, you first get the people to start using the GNU/Linux systems, and > very soon, the whole *philosophy* behind the movement becomes clear to > them. I have seen this strategy fail miserably in many places. Now a days you have many >>Linux<< users groups in India who openly refuse to listen or talk about GNU or freedom. There are lots mailing lists where you will be banned if you try to speak of GNU or freedom (I would have been) thrown out of by now if I this thread was on one of them). The moment we leave out the phylosophy and go after just the technology, we loose all our strength. > The GNU + GPL is a rather new thing. We are in the initial phases of > a huge revolution to come. This revolution is atleast 17 years old. It is growing at a good pace. Better grow slowly rather than explode and die away. > I believe, the best idea now is to get people > to start using GNU/Linux systems. I'm *NOT* supporting > non-"free" software. I'm just saying that, we'll give them the GNU > stuff. But, let's not pack the non-free stuff either. Probably, we can put > all the non-free software in a separate path, or, the second CD, if we > need to go for a 2-CD distro. This is a good idea and is actually practiced by the debian distribution. But I still believe that stressing on phylosophy is the only way we can promote free software. By not doing so, we may be able to get a much bigger number of users but the majority will never even think of the freedom part. Please note that for the majority of people in India, getting the software they need without paying money is no big deal. So if we don't put phylosophy first, our attempts will reduce to a mere anti microsoft campaign. > > Please note, all I'm saying is we really need people to start > using GNU/Linux first. When I first started off with Linux, I had no idea > of the philosophy, just knew that it was free (in the free beer sense of > "free"). Over a short period of time after that, I came to know the > background stuff, the philosopy. And now, I'm pretty much in love with > it. It's the same with most people, I guess. NO. It is not so for the majority. The example of ilug is applicable here. > I convinced one of my Professors here in campus to start using GNU/Linux. > Initially, I just gave him a brief idea of the philosophy and told him that > all tools he'd require (like code-libraries etc.) are free. Once he > started using it, he really "felt" the difference. He advises students to > use GNU/Linux these days. Does he stress on the phylosophy now? If no, then we have a loss. If yes, may be because this person is a Professor (thinks a lot), he found the true value. But what about 90% of college students who just want to watch vcds and ** stuff? They don't and won't care about phylosophy unless we start with that. > I totally accept. But, converting the Windows users to GNU/Linus > users is the first step in making them use FREE software. Can't we try the other way round? ie. we make them free software users and so they automatically become non non-free software users. I insist on this because the failure of the other strategy that I have noticed. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 10:54:50 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:24:50 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] RMS' speech at Kochi Message-ID: <3B6A82FA.2F470A69@ti.com> Mirrors of RMS speech in India 2001-07-28 * http://bubblegum.homeip.net/rks/ (not updated) * http://ole.tange.dk/linux/rms/ * http://www.sslug.dk/~tange/ole.tange.dk/linux/rms/ * http://cvs.sslug.dk/~tange/ole.tange.dk/linux/rms/ Note that these are the exact replica of the files at MEC with no md5 checksum errors. The link is pretty fast. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 11:02:43 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Modern Book Centre, TVM) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:32:43 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] unsuscribe References: <20010803090038.18365.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B6A84D3.49E46F22@techpark.net> unsubsribe modern@techpark.net From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 11:11:05 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:41:05 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. References: Message-ID: <3B6A86C9.26C0A5E2@ti.com> Radhakrishnan C V wrote: > > Our own http://www.gnu.org.in has sufficient space (2GB) is based in > UK. We shall use it for the above purpose. Just out of curiosity, I remember reading somewhere that the physical location of *.{com,org,net}.in should be India? do we violate this? I am not sure whether this rule is changed now. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 11:46:32 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:16:32 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <3B6A86C9.26C0A5E2@ti.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 at 16:41, Ramakrishnan M wrote: Radhakrishnan C V wrote: > > Our own http://www.gnu.org.in has sufficient space (2GB) is based in > UK. We shall use it for the above purpose. Just out of curiosity, I remember reading somewhere that the physical location of *.{com,org,net}.in should be India? do we violate this? I am not sure whether this rule is changed now. Server can be anywhere, but the primary nameserver where the entry of the server is made *should* be in India. Previously it was insisted for the secondary name server too located in India, but now NCST advise to have it in some other part of the world. They seem to have learnt a lot from experience.:) -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 13:32:19 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (ravi gangavarapu) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:32:19 Subject: [FSF India] Re: Contents of FSF-India digest..." Message-ID: Hi Everybody: Sai's experience is interesting. Some suggestions regarding spreading GNU/Linux in schools. It is a good idea to develop interface with all the educational bodies (both governament and non-governament such as teachers federations or organizations including non-profit organizations). Explain them (by sending letters) how it is costly to use commercial software and the effect they have on Indian foreign currency reserves (note that Microsoft is from US and you pay for it in foriegn currency) and how they can save money on license fee. The focus should be on using free software to avoid legal problems with the use of unlicensed software. Also, highlight free community support they get for free software. Explain how free software like Apache is robust on security front compared to Microsoft web server becuase of open source and community activity. Ravi Gangavarapu. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 19:55:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 01:25:52 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Media materials on RMS's visit. Message-ID: <20010804012552.E1038@orion> Hi friends, It would be very helpful if the members of this list can get media materials relating to RMS's visit for FSF India, especially outside Kerala. Those who can send them please inform before sending so that we can avoid duplicate efforts. KG could you please inform about the materials we already have. Arun. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 09:00:11 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Varun Sinha) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:30:11 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] GNU/Linux in Schools from a guy in school References: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> <20010802162112.A778@orion> Message-ID: <001101c11c9d$2714c3c0$0cc96565@dreammachine> Hi all!! I have been following the discussion about GNU systems in schools with great interest, but haven't been able to put my two cents in, cuz I'm in XII and the week gets really busy. But it's a Friday afternoon, so I can give myself a little time off...:-) I think GNU systems would be a great idea for a simple reason: the cost. Yes, I know that it is mainly about freedom and I greatly appreciate that. But the truth is my principal isn't all that concerned about free software; he is much more interested in setting up a full-fledged computer system at a fraction of the cost it would cost him to do so using proprietary software (we don't have one right now). Besides the fact that the software itself is a lot more cost-effective, the hardware costs would also be greatly reduced. I think another interesting effect it would have would be that awareness would be created among students about free software. What better ways to learn about it's philosophy that using it itself!! The only downside I can think of is training and support. People who know about proprietary software are dime-a-dozen but people with knowledge of GNU systems are not that easy to find. Or as least that is my perception, I may be wrong. I think the reason the KVs teach Fox-Pro and Word and Excel et al is because it is so easy to find people to teach them. GNU systems are a whole new world for vast majority and I really don't know how easy it would be to find people to teach. One idea is that people from a local GNU user group could come and teach, but is that a feasible idea? The point about using GUI for most tasks seems to make sense. It would be alot easier for people, especially teachers (students might be able to) to work with GUI. I think they would rather spend their time on work rather than learning shell commands (I'm not saying that learning shell commands is not "work", but I feel that they might find it slightly wasteful)I'm sure that at some point some of them might become quite proficient with the systems, but most of them would be more comfortable with a GUI. My entire opinion is based mainly with my school in mind, maybe the situation is different in other places. Just some of my thoughts. Please let me know if you think I am wrong. And also let me know if you think I am right.....;-) Regards, Varun Sinha -------------------------------------------------------------- Cosmic Information and Technology Ltd, Ahmedabad, India From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 06:11:26 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Suraj Kumar S.) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 11:41:26 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Sublists In-Reply-To: ; from cvr@gnu.org.in on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 11:32:43AM +0530 References: Message-ID: <20010804114126.B2623@in.inapp.com> I think i would be ideal to have different lists. We usually see that some threads become very large and the contents of the mails sometimes have no relavence with the actual subject. Hence some mails may become junk mails form someone. Maybe you can subscribe us into all of these different lists. Those who would not be interested in one of them, can unsubscribe from that specific list and not from the main list. -Suraj On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 11:32:43AM +0530, Radhakrishnan C V wrote: > It seems that we need to have more sublists based on themes now > under extensive deliberation like: > > > 1. Free Software in Education > 2. Programming and technical > 3. Projects, developer coordination > 4. General (philosophy, events, licence, etc) > 5. ... From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 06:47:12 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Jayan S R) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:17:12 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] gtk help In-Reply-To: <3B6A3230.BF167E4@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Ajith Kumar wrote: > Hello > can anyone help in converting this to gtk undel GNU/Linux. > > ajith > I am giving it a try. I will just convert it and send it, but I do not know how it should look like :-) I could not compile it since it uses dos graphics functions. one question- can you please tell me why did u set the viewport to these magic numbers? setviewport(120,40,520,440,1); so that it will be easier for me. regards -- Jayan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 09:10:39 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (keshava kumar) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 02:10:39 -0700 Subject: [FSF India] New person onf list Message-ID: <200108040910.CAA24325@mail8.bigmailbox.com> Hi Friends, Tahnking you all for welcoming me as one of you in this mailing list. It would be helpful if you send you e-mail ids indivually to me , have good day, Keshava G. ------------------------------------------------------------ <==James (Spike) Masters, Live In Sydney==> Check out our site for more info Email thats fast, free and spamless!! http://mail.fsf.com.au From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 11:07:31 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Jayan S R) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 16:37:31 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] gtk help In-Reply-To: <3B6A3230.BF167E4@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --1489653231-37675009-996923251=:13639 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Ajith Kumar wrote: > Hello > can anyone help in converting this to gtk undel GNU/Linux. here is the gtk version of your MOTION OF A PARTICLE IN CENTRAL FORCE FILELD It looks really cool. 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So the skills and techniques he learned form the school could be used freely and without any restrictions for the betterment of the society. For example a medical student, on successful completion of his course can practice his acquired skills without any license from any one other than the Government. Same is the case all other fields of education - he can practice and share his knowledge with his neighbours, friends and the like. So the knowledge one gets from the educational institutions should be practiced and shared without any restrictions and licenses (Government-license is excluded because it only confirms the required skills). As such teaching anything that requires license or permision from anyone other than the concerned Educational institution and or the Government for practicing is illegeal (according to my belief). M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 12:32:40 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 18:02:40 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] gtk help References: Message-ID: <3B6BEB68.31390311@eth.net> Jayan S R wrote: > MOTION OF A PARTICLE IN CENTRAL FORCE FILELD It looks really cool. I bet it looks better than the dos version, > let me know If u have any trouble in compiling or running this program. Jayan Thank you Jayan, it is working. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 15:06:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Varun Sinha) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 20:36:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> <20010802162112.A778@orion> <001101c11c9d$2714c3c0$0cc96565@dreammachine> Message-ID: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> WB Govt ties up with MSFT http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010804/tc/india_microsoft_dc_1.html One would think they would be better off tying up with RedHat or SuSE or the FSF Who wants a government that has to be patched every week....? -------------------------------------------------------------- Cosmic Information and Technology Ltd, Ahmedabad, India From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 16:34:24 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:04:24 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> Message-ID: <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> FSF wake up this news comes at a bad time there are efforts from different directions to make WB a Free Software State. Can we all make a presentation on this immediately at least the board members can write somethin to this senior official in WBEIDC and explain them that they are getting a one way ticket. A senior official at the West Bengal Electronics Industry Development Corp (Webel) said the deal with Microsoft would help the state woo investments in the information technology sector. the closest contact info i could get was the following. http://www.wbidc.com/contact.htm the Westbengal.com site did not list email id's of Ministers and the CM, they had phone numbers listed what a ridiculous thing to do. I urge we should have a strong presentation from FSF on the follwing issues 1)Investment Promises which never come, tell them to learn from the mistake of others. 2)You have to help yourself there will be nobody else helping you. 3)How,Why and where Free Software can help achieve there objectives. 4)Who is making $$ in this SLACK phase?? cheers S.Goswami > WB Govt ties up with MSFT > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010804/tc/india_microsoft_dc_1.html > > One would think they would be better off tying up with RedHat or SuSE or > the FSF > > Who wants a government that has to be patched every week....? > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Cosmic Information and Technology Ltd, Ahmedabad, India > > > _______________________________________________ > http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 16:50:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:20:28 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> Message-ID: <1160.192.168.0.2.996943828.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> in continuation to the last mail tell them 1)As the old saying goes A penny Saved is Penny Made. 2)The M$ has lost its Lusture , and this trick has been tried many a times and it did not work very well for the other states, tell them to try a radi cally new concept like Free Software it will definetly will not cause any brain damage to anyone. 3)Tell them we know it take lots of efforts and guts to do it but in long run its worth taking it Lemme quote one of our local dailies deccan.com poor thing does not maintain Archives may be i should approach them too ;-) "Naidu's Global Consultants fail to bring in a single paisa" From CR Gowri Shanker Hyderabad july 27 : Six international consultants hired by the state government last year to formulate industrial policy and boost investment are in deep trouble for their failure to attract major foreign companies. At a recent review of invetments in the state , the government expressed its displeasure to the six consultants for their failure to attaract investment worth the name. The consultants on the CM's firing line are Ernest and Young,KPMG,Pricewaterhouse Coopers,A F Ferguson and Co, Mega Ace Consultanct and Alpic Finance. and it goes on and on in bashing the consultants.. cheers S.Goswami > WB Govt ties up with MSFT > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010804/tc/india_microsoft_dc_1.html > > One would think they would be better off tying up with RedHat or SuSE or > the FSF > > Who wants a government that has to be patched every week....? > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Cosmic Information and Technology Ltd, Ahmedabad, India > > > _______________________________________________ > http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 16:42:38 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:12:38 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] [simputer@yahoogroups.com: [simputer] Digest Number 139] Message-ID: <20010804221238.B1904@orion> ----- Forwarded message from simputer@yahoogroups.com ----- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:07:03 +0500 (GMT) From: V Vinay Subject: The tax payer and other issues Hi all, Warning: This is a long mail. Please do not respond to this email, especially if you are not prepared to think through and believe you require any additional clarifications. Our energies are better spent elsewhere. > I have been reading the mails and I think that one oft > the original posters had pointed out that the initial > development of the Simputer was carried out in IISc, > banglore. That institute is funded by the tax payers > money. So, the question arises why does the license > fee not go to IISc but a private firm. > > I have not seen this one answered. Indeed, this has not been answered. And it seems many other questions. First, a general comment on the lack of understanding of how publically financed institutions work. Technologies are not thrown open just because institutions takes money from the tax payer. On the contrary, they are protected rigorously. Take the case of path breaking technologies that have emerged from IIT-Madras; are they in the open? Do you know that some of the query optimization algorithms and code that is part of Microsoft's database server is from IIT-Bombay? The list is virtually endless. Non-disclosure is a norm; it is not the exception. Speaking for the IISc team, the four of us got together as individuals working on something beyond our brief. This means that we have not received any direct funding from any agency (tax paying or otherwise) to subsidise our efforts. In fact, most of the money put in by the IISc team came at the cost of our *personal renumeration* from several consultancy projects. But nevertheless IISc, at best could have got only part of any license fee as Encore, as employer of the other three trustees, is an equal partner. This is the reason for setting a non-profit trust. With great wisdom and sagacity, and what should be regarded as a unique experiment in academic-industrial interaction, IISc and Encore have deposited any intellectual property on the Simputer from their respective sides with the Trust. You should also know that a non-profit trust is not a private firm! Of course, any money that comes into the trust cannot go to the pockets of the trustees. You can sleep in peace, the state has enough mechanisms in place to guarantee this. IISc is also interested in commercializing the Simputer effort. It took a major step by allowing, for the first time in India, faculty entrepreneurship. It has a equity stake in the company so started. (Three years ago, we probably would have signed an NDA with Encore and got a small personal compensation for that.) Now to the economics: it is not worthwhile for anyone to get into commercial activity in this space unless they have a market for about 100,000 to 200,000 Simputers; until that point the economics does not work out. The total revenue at say, 2000,000 Simputers is $40 million. And $25,000 will be steep price for this manufacturer?? (This is rhetoric, I am not looking for your answer.) A manufacturer can pay this fee and make as many boards as they want, supply them to different "assemblers" or even deliver different assembled Simputers. Or a company can get into contract manufacturing agreement in which case it pays the license fee and the manufacturer does not have to. I hope I will not see anymore of the incredible questions about paying license for selling Simputer to 30 friends etc as if the trust is composed of some robots with the intelligence of a moron. The trust, let me assure you, is made of very smart thinking people, thank you. You should recognize by now that the hardware and software on the Simputer has been thrown open *by choice*; we gave up our monoplistic position on the Simputer. In doing so, we have only invited competition to our own companies. TIME Asia, in its coverage, called this move naive. Hmmm. Were we really smart here! Maybe, maybe not. But what is the support we get for this decision? Well, we get ill-informed, shrill and venomous comments by our so-called tax payers and others, with zero understanding of how a trust functions and of any underlying economics. And some of these emails even comes with a line that the information contained in the email is proprietary to a private company! So I suppose I cannot comment any further :-) The success of the Simputer does not depend on its licensing model, or who its trustees are, or what technologies it uses. It depends on the change it can make to the people around us. People around the world are excited about the Simputer for its vision, for offering hope. But we all realize that no single technology can transform the strata of societies we are looking at. There are a thousand other things to be done to get this and other countries out of their sorry present state. That effort is being strengthened by like minded people who are quitely contributing behind the scenes. Thank God some of them exist! If any of you think you can contribute, please lend your hand in your own unique way. Let a thousand ideas bloom! This is what we require of each one of us. If the only role you can play is adversial, you can atleast contribute by bringing silence, golden silence!! Regards Vinay ---- Prof. V. Vinay, Trustee, Simputer Trust ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:55:23 -0400 From: Ozakil Azim Subject: Re: The tax payer and other issues Vinay, I beg to disagree with you. I am not writing this mail to seek clarification from you or your colleagues. This is an 'open' forum and until such time that you keep this forum open, I will give vent to 'my' opinions. we all know that you could opt to retain complete IP rights to the simputer and license it any way you want to your potential licensees. and that nobody is stopping you from doing that. and that you could potentially make millions of dollars personally. and that you are getting incensed at all the 'unmerited' criticism. you know what? if you had kept the rights to yourself, you probably wouldn't have gotten this level of criticism from the 'open-source' believers. Please understand that open source rhetoric will sound shrill at times. did you think the open source path will be easy? that the open source philosophy is something that can be customized for varying degrees of openness? let's all agree to disagree and move on. you guys are doing a good job. nobody thinks ill of you or your achievements. everybody has gone on record appreciating your work. just ignore the criticism if you don't like it. moderate this forum and delete posts that you don't agree with, if you like. but please do not think that people in this forum are 'robots with the intelligence of a moron', either. you need to a build a team of developers who will be willing to spend their time, as you have done, freely, to the ongoing development and the success of the simputer; as hundreds of developers have done for apache etc. already. do not alienate them before they even get started. -azim V Vinay wrote: > > Please do not respond to this email, especially if you are not > prepared to think through and believe you require any additional > clarifications. > > > > I hope I will not see anymore of the incredible questions about paying > license for selling Simputer to 30 friends etc as if the trust is > composed of some robots with the intelligence of a moron. > > > > Well, we get ill-informed, shrill and venomous comments by our > so-called tax payers and others, with zero understanding of how a > trust functions and of any underlying economics. > > > > If the only role you can play is adversial, you can atleast contribute by > bringing silence, golden silence!! > ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----- End forwarded message ----- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 20:39:14 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 02:09:14 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: Hi People, Seriously, this is crazy!! Who's taking all these decisions. I see far too many problems: 1) Proprietary software, is in a sense, against the principles of democracy. Just consider using free software for administrative purposes. The people have access to the code the govt uses and know exactly how things related are functioning. For example, software used in elections etc. I actually read this article sometime back about a country deciding to focus on using Free Software for all administrative purposes. Can't trace the URL now :-(. 2) The article says that West Bengal plans to setup a state-wide computer network connecting the secretariat and the district headquarters. This is serious business. I mean, your key word would be SECURITY. In such a case, why would anyone ever want to use Windows. Microsoft itself "tried" Windows sometime back on its Hotmail servers when it was hacked (I'm not entirely sure of the part of being hacked, but they definitely dropped the plans of using Windows very soon). It's now gone back to FreeBSD + Apache. Just consider, one intruder on the network could mean sooooo much trouble. We are talking about *SENSITIVE* data here. > 1)Investment Promises which never come, tell them to learn from the > mistake of others. > 2)You have to help yourself there will be nobody else helping you. > 3)How,Why and where Free Software can help achieve there objectives. > 4)Who is making $$ in this SLACK phase?? You're sooo right... somebody has to talk with the guys about this stuff. And soon, the deal is going to be signed on 16th!! Are we having any plan yet?? Who're the ones taking all the decisions out there. For some time, I thought it might be Bihar :-) Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 02:29:39 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 07:59:39 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] gtk help References: Message-ID: <3B6CAF93.FA25A5A6@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CE41367EFA5938E2A069FBC4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jayan S R wrote: > On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Ajith Kumar wrote: > > > Hello > > can anyone help in converting this to gtk undel GNU/Linux. > > here is the gtk version of your MOTION OF A PARTICLE IN CENTRAL FORCE > FILELD It looks really cool. I bet it looks better than the dos version, > let me know If u have any trouble in compiling or running this program. > Thank you Jayan. It works well. ajith > > warm regards > > -- > Jayan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: cfmgtk.c > cfmgtk.c Type: Plain Text (TEXT/PLAIN) > Encoding: BASE64 --------------CE41367EFA5938E2A069FBC4 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------CE41367EFA5938E2A069FBC4-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 03:53:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:23:00 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] New person onf list In-Reply-To: <200108040910.CAA24325@mail8.bigmailbox.com> References: <200108040910.CAA24325@mail8.bigmailbox.com> Message-ID: <15212.49948.52928.356656@mail.linux-delhi.org> Why? >>>>> "keshava" == keshava kumar writes: keshava> Hi Friends, keshava> Tahnking you all for welcoming me as one of you in this keshava> mailing list. keshava> It would be helpful if you send you e-mail ids indivually keshava> to me , keshava> have good day, keshava> Keshava G. -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 03:53:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:23:00 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] New person onf list In-Reply-To: <200108040910.CAA24325@mail8.bigmailbox.com> References: <200108040910.CAA24325@mail8.bigmailbox.com> Message-ID: <15212.49948.52928.356656@mail.linux-delhi.org> Why? >>>>> "keshava" == keshava kumar writes: keshava> Hi Friends, keshava> Tahnking you all for welcoming me as one of you in this keshava> mailing list. keshava> It would be helpful if you send you e-mail ids indivually keshava> to me , keshava> have good day, keshava> Keshava G. -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 18:11:34 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:41:34 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <1421.192.168.0.8.996747456.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Satyakam Goswami wrote: > > U might be aware of Life (linux for education) which was started by > > Nagarjuna G. at Tata institute of Fund. Research. > > > > There are few gathered at mailing list for the purpose and all would be > > able to find more like minded over there. > There site is down and i tried calling nagarjun's number in Mumbai, nobody > responded. > > S.Goswami > > ________________________________________ > Archean Infotech > Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar > Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com > Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 > Mobile:9849016667 IN A 'SOFTWARE SUPER-POWER', RURAL KIDS LACK THE CODE TO LEARN... By Frederick Noronha -------------------- WHY IS it easier for Indian school students to use the computer to study the geography of the United States, rather than know the states of their own country better? What is the fate of students in non-English schools who want to learn how to use computers optimally? In a word, are we producing suitable software to cope with the needs of our own schools? These issues come up regularly to haunt educationists keen to give school-children better access to computers. More so, when the students come from underprivileged or poor backgrounds, are familiar only with regional languages, and study in resource-poor government schools. "Availability of suitable (educational software) material in the Kannada language is next to nil," complains engineer S. Jayaraman. He is a consultant to the Azim Premji Foundation (APF), a philanthropic network started by Bangalore's prominent IT house. The APF has plans to computerise around a thousand rural schools, attended mainly by children of the poor. So far it has managed around three dozen. This too has not been problem-free. Plans to set up these 'community learning centres' which could be used in the evenings by general villagers have, among other things, been hit by a lack of relevant software. "Some of the (commercial software producers) are offering syllabus-based learning," says Jayaram. Much of the 'educational software' available is in English, and better suited to foreign students rather than Indian needs. Others firms have simply taken textbooks and dumped it onto a CD. Some of the other problems the Azim Premji Foundation has to struggle with include finding sufficiently motivated teachers close-by, difficult infrastructure (high and ultra low-voltage power), reluctance of school authorities to open access to villagers outside school hours, and the like. But the Foundation is already reporting that putting computers in rural schools has boosted attendance, and that admissions to otherwise-ignored government schools has also improved. APF has been able to make use of two specific software -- one a Karnataka-based treasure hunt, giving information on the state's various districts; and the other called 'Brainstorm' that helps students practise simple Arithmetic concepts. C.V.Madhukar of the APF stresses that the foundation has taken up "primary education as our target, not so much as philanthropy but more as problem-solving". He said the possible agenda on this front could revolve around computer-based content creation (either teacher-centered or child-centered content); TV-based content; setting up Community Learning Centres; and facilitate the donation of used PCs from companies to schools. Tia Sircar of the Bangalore-based TeLC (The e-Learning Consortium) also stresses the need to look at the 'content needs' of the Indian rural masses. She points to the success of some experiments like the Pratham initiative of computer training in Mumbai, which Sircar says has been a "vast success". Sircar concedes that students across the country feel the need to study English. But without regional language software, the aim of making India a computer-literate nation would simply not happen, as educationists agree. Others wanting to promote computers in schools have also faced similar problems. From the west coast, the Goa Computers-in-Schools Project (GCSP) is an Internet-based alliance between overseas Goans and those here to help spur on attempts to give schools in the state access to more computers. Recently, the GCSP managed to finally get the Central government to allow Customs-free import of once-used computers from abroad to non-elitist, non-commercial privately run schools. This is particularly relevant in Goa, a state where much of school education is privately managed. Such measures could allow overseas expats to send in donated and once-used computers by the containerful, on just paying the freight charges. But software questions remain. In the past too, some linked to this network have raised questions about the ethics of using pirated proprietorial software in schools, where students are supposed to be taught to follow a principled approach to life. Other approaches are being tried out. Aware of this acute lack of educational software, the small but active network across India that promotes Open Source and 'free' software is also beginning to pay some attention to the issue. Prof Nagarjuna G of the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research in Mumbai has set up a Internet based mailing-list to study the potential in school education of GNU-Linux, the Open Source and 'free' software. Life can be contacted via Life-admin@hbcse.tifr.res.in while the website is at http://hbcse.tifr.res.in/mailman/listinfo/life There are other global websites like linuxforkids.com which offer megabytes for education software on a CD for prices ranges between three to six dollars. Programs offered include First_math (a maths quiz game), Anton (a challenging maths game), Cindrella (commercial interactive geometry software), Linux Letters (learning game for children from 2-up for letters and numbers), TuxType (typing tutor), Gnerudite (a Scrabble-clone), Across (to generate your own crossword puzzles), Qvocab (to increase your foreign language vocabulary), Lingoteach (to learn foreign languages), Atomix (a molecule-creation game), LOGO (tool for children to learn programming). This might be helpful, but doesn't quite solve the main problem at hand. Linux is still, unfortunately, seen as a "geeks' operating system". So, support available is relatively limited, specially in remote rural areas. In addition, again the problem of having relevant, local-language educational software remains. On the positive side, there are some signs of hope. Local GNU-Linux enthusiasts are showing signs of growing interest to build India-relevant software applications, and the educational sector could benefit too. Committed supporters of Linux do appreciate that for their Operating System to grow in popularity, it should have something specifically relevant to Indian needs. Bangalore incidentally could be called one of the Linux capitals of India, with its active network of supporters and enthusiasts who showcase their work through events like the IT.com in November and the Bang!inux held in early summer each year. Others are also trying out their own initiatives. Dr Pavanaja, a scientist who was earlier with the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre in Mumbai and now devotes his time to promoting computer usage in Kannada through the Kannada Ganaka Parishad (see vishwakannada.com), agrees that relevant software is sorely lacking in regional languages. "The only field IT has failed to change dramatically is education. Computers can remake education. It is indeed time to begin," says he. He points to his own initiatives. 'Kannada-Kali' is a software that generates a jig-saw puzzle from Kannada alphabets. One has to fit the pieces in the right place, thus enabling youngsters or those not knowing the Kannada language to practise on its alphabet. "I don't claim you can learn Kannada using this. But it is an entry point," says Dr Pavanaja. He has also put together a Kannada version of LOGO, the logic-oriented, graphic-oriented software that is used as a tool to teach young children the basic concepts needed for programming. It is still under development. So far, only a few keywords required for the LOGO program have been completed. Some 300 more keywords are yet to be done. Dr Pavanaja is more than open to the idea of freely sharing his 'intellectual property'. In fact, the Kannada-Kali program has a prominently distributed message: "Feel free to distribute this among your Kannada friends." In such a situation of scarcity, it is indeed laudable to see some of those working on such themes to be more than willing to share the fruit of their labour generously, without thinking about monetary gain. Of course, at the end of the day, much of the Indian educational software scarcity simply boils down to a question of economics. In spite of their millions-strong numbers, the rural dweller simply doesn't have the purchasing power. So why should anyone bother with writing software specifically for him? Even if this is a country that is increasingly claiming the status of being the world's software superpower. (ENDS) -------------------------------------------------- | Frederick Noronha, Freelance Journalist | | 784, Near Lourdes Convent, Saligao 403511 Goa | | Tel 0091.832.409490/409783 Mobile: 9822.12 24 36 | | E-mail: fred@bytesforall.org or fred@vsnl.com | /) URL-http://www.bytesforall.org | / URL-http://www.goacom.com/news/ \\ _( (+-------------------------------------------------+) ) /| (((\ \) /_) /^) / /))/ (\\\\ \_/ / \ \_ / / // \ / \ / \ __/ \__ / | | | | /*******\ /*******\ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 05:18:54 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (K.R.Srivathsan) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 10:48:54 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: Message-ID: <3B6CD73E.1020604@iiitmk.org> Dear all, The best way to promote FS is through a constructive approach. Pointing out failures of non-FS to deliver and how we are being taken for a ride is not going to take us far. We must highlight FS successes, educate the yougsters, the decision makers, etc. Decision makers often have little time and work under all kinds of pressures. They often need experts to advice and this they dont get. Instead of projecting Fredom, Democracy, etc. , we have to educate on what is in the national and society's interests. If it sounds too much of an ideology, many well meaning people will quietly distance themselves. They need guidelines to promote natonal interests - ones that are whetted by well respected experts, mot by that of a group perceived by them having some colour. We can evolve some healWe have to remember that being in this world, free and 'not-free' will continue to exist - as humans there will always be some possessive and some enlightened with varying proportions in everyone of us. Here I am proposing a set of guidelines that we can opine upon and participate in a National Seminar on this issue. In any services projects of the Government, preference may be given in the following order, with due weightage for the backup services support capability. i) Free Software based developments with professional services support. ii) Open software with professional services support. iii) Any relevant mix of (i), (ii); or (i), (ii) and (iv) as second priority. iv) Proporietory solutions that guarantee freedom from undesirable cookies and with known input and output formats. so that these systems can be expanded by intergration with other systems. v) Proprietory solutions with unknown input / output formats and guarantee of freedom from user unknown cookies. vi) Proprietory software with unknown cookies should have the lowest priority in the category. Project sponsors should demand from software and services suppliers the open specifications of the products they offer as per the above guidelines. We also msut oppose (as the Europeans are doing) software patents. It is a minefield not unlike the issues under bioiversity and traditional herbal medicine practices. we must develop a national consensus and against software patents. If we do that, even organizations like NASSCOM, will respect our contribution. Otherwise they will continue to be under the clutches of multinational lobbies. We also must constructively assist FS based industries by evolving services backups for FS solutions. In fact it is because of the ---------------------------------------------------------------- I NEED ONE MORE ASISTANCE in the following. I am opening an Authoring Web site at iiitmk.ac.in We shall start posing a number issues concerning specific learning modules. Experts may send us contents that we shall titch together as courses. Send me any amount of problems, solutions, mini-projects (for students practice) in FS that I can use for classrooms and freely distribute to others. Let us give a FS learning platform for colleges to use. In particular I am looking for the following courses. 1. Data Structures and Algorithms. 2. Programming Languages - with examples from C, C++ and Java. (Big US Schools use Scheme as the base languages as best suited for teaching. Java may be as good. Give your opinion). 3. Operating Systems - with text as Applied Operating Systems by Silbetschatz, et al - and prefer GNU/Linux and C as the learning support. 4. Web Technologies - over Apache, Sun Java, Mozilla, etc. 5. RDBMS, ODBC based applications, OODB - what FS? We also need to prepare a School Learning Platforms over FS. Need to define some role for IT in school. Not of the kind it is today. Can any one help? The developed courses will be available a Free Courseware. Unless we begin teaching young impressionable age group the technology using, we shall not have the stamina to do the long-distance. Remeber there are many applied areas of Software where Free aproaches are yet to touch. Best wishes, srivathsan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof. K.R. Srivathsan Tel: (+91 471) 527567(O); Director 324258(R) Indian Institute of Information Technology Fax: 527568 and Management - Kerala Park Centre, Technopark Email: director@iiitmk.org Thiruvananthapuram - 695 581 Home : www.iiitmk.org Kerala, India ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 06:53:59 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 12:23:59 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State government which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I am making it as general-purpose as possible so that more people are willing to sign it: this is not a time for family squabbles. I'd appreciate any additions/enhancements which can be made to this letter. URL's highlighting the points discussed would also be a great idea. Not being an activist, I cannot suggest the proper methods for getting this letter signed and circulated to the right authorities. Dear We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom proponents in India are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans to base your complete e-governance infrastructure on a single foreign company's products. The history of Microsoft has shown that it has very little regard for serving any objectives except its own, which does not augur well for the future of in particular and our country in general. We request you to kindly consider the following points before making this relationship permanent: 1. Security. Microsoft products have time and again demonstrated a regrettable lack of basic security features. Recent incidents which have affected a sizeable portion of Microsoft-based servers and client systems on the Internet have served to highlight the fact that Microsoft makes Insecure Products. The Code Red worm (computer virus) infected millions of servers on the Internet in June 2001 and coordinated them (without their administrators consent) to simultaneously attack the US White House web site. The worm is still alive though dormant and no one knows exactly where and when it will strike again. Needless to say, this worm only affects computers running Microsoft's most popular web server. Only a few days after the infamous Code Red attacks (on August 5, 2001), another worm which infects Microsoft-based web servers has been discovered and is at the time of writing being analysed to discover its potential to disrupt the world's computing and networking infrstructure. The SIRCAM virus which replicates itself using e-mail as the medium has been deemed such a major threat to computing infrastructure that Microsoft and the FBI have taken the unprecendented step of releasing a joint warning notice against it to all computer users in July 2001. Again, the SIRCAM virus only affects e-mail users who use Microsoft's products -- all other software is immune to this threat. These are but two symptoms of the general malaise that Microsoft's products suffer from. Each time a product is fixed using patches from Microsoft, new security holes in the product are uncovered, leading to another wave of infection. In fact, there have been cases of a problem fix from Microsoft uncovering older (previously-fixed) problems and making them active again; there are no signs that these issues will ever be completely resolved. 2. Total cost of ownership (TCO) The Total Cost of Ownership of Microsoft's products is much higher than that of other, equivalent, better technologies. With their new licensing model, Microsoft has ensured that those unfortunate enough to invest in their products keep paying for the product, not only at purchase time but throughout the lifetime of the product on an annual basis. We believe that it is possible to save this outflow and redeploy it in other areas in the state which need investments. In addition hardware requirements for running Microsoft are substantially higher than those of competing products from other sources. In many cases a computer running a competing product will cost half of and handle ten times the load that a computer configuration running Microsoft products would. 3. Internal security Microsoft is a company owned by American citizens, having its base of operations in the USA and subject to US laws. A clear effect of this was evidenced in 1999 when it was discovered that some of the security and cryptography functions built into Microsoft's operating systems were subject to be used by the US National Security Agency (NSA) without explicit permission from either Microsoft or the user of the software. This is one lone ``feature'' of Microsoft software which came to light due to the vigilance of a concerned individual. However it is quite possible (indeed, likely) that there are other ways in which Microsoft products are designed and constructed to permit illegal access by US security agencies. As concerned Indians, we would wish to be secure in the knowledge that the software handling our critical information about Government and individuals will not permit foreign Governments to spy upon, or, even worse, arbitrarily modify it without the consent or knowledge of our elected representatives and the Government machine. 4. Flexibility India being a unique country it is very likely that we will wish to adapt the software managing our Government information flows to our specific requirements from time to time. With Microsoft products it will not be possible to do this in any sort of time-bound manner, if it is possible at all. For instance, we may want to create cheap Intel 486-based computers for members of the bureaucracy which they can use to access their e-mail. Building such a low-cost computer with Microsoft software would be impossible since the building blocks of the software (the ``source code'', which is the blueprint for the software) is only available with Microsoft. As users, we will not be able to customise and modify the software to our requirements. To take another example, Microsoft is subject to US Government rules which prohibit the export of some forms of strong data encryption and decryption (scrambling and descrambling) technologies to India except under special conditions. As long as we are using Microsoft products, these technologies will not be available to us and we will be forced to use sub-standard, easily breakable techniques to protect our critical data. 5. Alternatives Given these facts, we strongly urge you to consider alternative technologies and sources for software for mission- and government-critical functions like State e-governance. The GNU/Linux operating system (sometimes also called just ``Linux'') suffers from none of the defects of Microsoft operating systems and applications detailed above and is already the fastest-growing server operating system in the world today. Some of the features of GNU/Linux which make it a viable and desirable component of any Government infrastructure are: - GNU/Linux has not to date been subject to any virus attacks anywhere near the severity of the worms and virii which are infecting Microsoft systems on a nearly daily basis. - The operating system itself and all the applications required to build a safe, secure and efficient infrastructure are available free of cost and can even be downloaded from the Internet. The hardware configuration of systems required to run GNU/Linux is much lower than that of corresponding systems required to run Microsoft products. There is no fee at all -- neither one-time nor recurring -- for using GNU/Linux. - The source code for the operating system and applications is available for perusal and modification. Using GNU/Linux, the Government can be assured that there are they are not at the mercy of any foreign government which can arm-twist Microsoft into putting hidden back-doors into their products. The Government can also give this assurance to the electorate. - Since the source code (i.e. the building blocks) of GNU/Linux is generally available, the Government can, if it so chooses, modify, extend and customise the software for its specific requirements. For instance, it is quite feasible to replace existing encryption techniques in GNU/Linux with those certified by the DRDO, leading to much better and auditable levels of security. Such enhancemente are not possible with Microsoft software. - Many national governments have blacklisted Microsoft products and specifically selected GNU/Linux to host applications managing and monitoring State and Central functions. We request you to critically consider any decision to purchase Microsoft products in the light of the information given above, and to give serious consideration to using alternative technologies which have a much lower cost, are more reliable and secure, and can be easily enhanced to fit in with our national objectives. >>>>> "Satyakam" == Satyakam Goswami writes: Satyakam> FSF wake up this news comes at a bad time there are Satyakam> efforts from different directions to make WB a Free Satyakam> Software State. Can we all make a presentation on this Satyakam> immediately at least the board members can write Satyakam> somethin to this senior official in WBEIDC and explain Satyakam> them that they are getting a one way ticket. Satyakam> A senior official at the West Bengal Electronics Satyakam> Industry Development Corp (Webel) said the deal with Satyakam> Microsoft would help the state woo investments in the Satyakam> information technology sector. Satyakam> the closest contact info i could get was the following. Satyakam> http://www.wbidc.com/contact.htm Satyakam> the Westbengal.com site did not list email id's of Satyakam> Ministers and the CM, they had phone numbers listed what Satyakam> a ridiculous thing to do. Satyakam> I urge we should have a strong presentation from FSF on Satyakam> the follwing issues Satyakam> 1)Investment Promises which never come, tell them to Satyakam> learn from the mistake of others. 2)You have to help Satyakam> yourself there will be nobody else helping you. Satyakam> 3)How,Why and where Free Software can help achieve there Satyakam> objectives. 4)Who is making $$ in this SLACK phase?? Satyakam> cheers S.Goswami >> WB Govt ties up with MSFT >> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010804/tc/india_microsoft_dc_1.html >> >> One would think they would be better off tying up with RedHat >> or SuSE or the FSF >> >> Who wants a government that has to be patched every week....? -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:14:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:44:08 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Interview with RMS Message-ID: <3B6E1990.D1EBFEE7@ti.com> http://juraj.bednar.sk/work/prace/computer/freesoft/stallman.php -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 04:01:55 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 05 Aug 2001 09:31:55 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86hevnyx1o.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> R Sai Kiran writes: > Well, I have a slightly different point of view here. I claim > that, you first get the people to start using the GNU/Linux systems, and > very soon, the whole *philosophy* behind the movement becomes clear to > them. It won't work. This is like suggesting that people who use Microsoft, or any other proprietary software for that matter, automatically, and "very soon," understand the whole philosophy behind *those* companies, which is profit-at-any-cost, to-hell-with-the-users'-rights, die-hard capitalism. You can't just start people off with GNU/Linux and *hope* that somehow, *magically*, the philosophy of Free Software will dawn on them just by using GNU/Linux. This is clearly putting the proverbial cart before the horse. I've noticed in this thread the emphasis on spreading GNU/Linux, the operating system, in schools without any mention about spreading the *concept* of Free Software. Somebody seems to be forgetting that GNU/Linux is NOT the goal, the end-all and be-all of Free Software. At best, it can be shown as a good example of Free Software while advocating the philosophy. > The GNU + GPL is a rather new thing. Don't let RMS hear you saying this; he's been at it for more than 15 years now. > Please note, all I'm saying is we really need people to start > using GNU/Linux first. When I first started off with Linux, I had no idea > of the philosophy, just knew that it was free (in the free beer sense of > "free"). Over a short period of time after that, I came to know the > background stuff, the philosopy. And now, I'm pretty much in love with > it. It's the same with most people, I guess. It's definitely NOT the same with most people! You were just an exception, that's all. You came to "know the background stuff, the philosophy" probably because you made an *attempt* to know it, or somebody else made an attempt advocating it. You did not dream about it, surely. > > > Yes...the main purpose is to spread the philosophy. But, > > > we should'nt directly attack from the philosophy point. > > Why >>attack<< in the first place? If people don't understand the > > word freedom, we can ask them to read their 10th std history text > > books. I once again stress that the mission is not to convert all > > windows users to GNU/Linux users. The mission is to tell people > > about FREE software and help them to start using FREE software. > > I totally accept. But, converting the Windows users to GNU/Linus > users is the first step in making them use FREE software. Oh no, this approach to spreading Free Software is not only flawed but downright suicidal! You are falling into the same trap that the "Open Source" folks did -- "just tempt the users with the "practical" merits of our software and they will automatically switch to our camp!" This is downright bizarre! Dear Sai, you seem to be a man in a hurry, probably because you are young and full of life. Please take a break, sit back, and try to take a more holistic view of Free Software. Try to look at the bigger picture. I repeat, GNU/Linux is not the raison d'etre of Free Software -- the Movement, the Philosophy, is much, much bigger than one operating system. I envy your enthusiasm and energy -- makes me wish I was 20 years younger -- but please don't waste it simply running around installing GNU/Linux boxes in schools. Instead, go around explaining the philosophy. Give lectures, play recordings of RMS's speeches. The acceptance and installation of GNU/Linux, or any other Free Operating System for that matter, will follow as the logical and automatic next step. Create the conditions so that the schools *ask* for Free Operating Systems instead of proprietary ones. Just taking GNU/Linux to them and saying "Here, this is a nice free operating system; we assure you that it is good for you and is better than the competition; we hope you will *soon* understand the philosophy behind it!" simply won't do! The Free Software Movement is not in the Marketing business. We are in the Advocacy business, lest we forget. Trying to compete with the proprietary software *Establishment* on *their* terms and using *their* methods is, as I said earlier, downright suicidal. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:45:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satish Babu) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:15:28 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <01080610152800.11300@athena> I believe that there should be a local group who can take up this issue and lobby the government. Are we aware of any individual or groups in WB who can highlight the dangers of this tie-up? Can we operate through local NGOs? After working in NGOs for long, I think NGOs can be powerful allies in this struggle. I also think that FSF-India should be prepared, with appropriate tools (at the very least, a dossier of documents that explain our position, and quoting examples of governments of other provinces and countries) to respond to such situations at short notice. Raju's letter is powerfully drafted. I wonder if such a letter should be sent by snail-mail or e-mail? Would clogging up the CM's mailbox brand us as cyber terrorists? Ciao Satish From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:54:20 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (viswanath nukala) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 21:54:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] hi, How to find network portin & Host portion of a ip address Message-ID: <20010806045420.80134.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> hi, Friends, i'm newly joined to this mailing list and i dont know where should i post my doubt because i badly looking for some info i'm mailing ! please excuse me if i'm wrong!! Is there any way to find Network portion & Host portion of Given IP address under LInux & c platform. I know there are some funcions like getnetbyname() etc which is used for this, but this function is not supporting under linux! so is there any alternative for this? or so, how should i go forward ! can any one please help me!! with regards viswanath __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:45:34 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:15:34 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] NGOs and Free Software Message-ID: Development, Ethical Trading, and Free Software Danny Yee Last modified November 21, 1999 Abstract This paper makes the political and ethical case for the adoption of free software by Community Aid Abroad and other members of Oxfam International. It should be applicable to development agencies generally and to other organisations with similar values. Free software has obvious pragmatic advantages for community development processes, most notably in its empowerment of users. But the ideological foundations and social structure of the free software movement are also consistent with community development at a theoretical level. Feedback on this document would be appreciated: additional case studies would be particularly useful. A Community Aid Abroad appropriate information technology group has been set up, including a mailing list for discussions in this area. Contents * Introduction * Software: Drawbacks and Dangers * The Advantages of Free Software * Free Software in Action * Conclusion and Recommendations Introduction Informational goods make up a sizeable and increasing fraction of the world's trade - and an even larger fraction of profits, since margins tend to be higher (Compare Microsoft's profit/turnover ratio with General Electrics'). This trend towards an "information economy" is continuing. Ethical trading and appropriate technology policies should therefore cover informational products. With some goods the major ethical concerns are in their manufacture or the effects on the environment of their use. Examples are wheat, iron, refrigerators, and so forth. Such goods are covered by a draft Oxfam GB Ethical Purchasing Policy, which advocates products that "are produced and delivered under conditions that do not involve the abuse or exploitation of any persons" and "have the least negative impact on the environment". The policy mentioned considers weapons and baby milk powder as special cases. But there are many products other than weapons and baby milk powder whose production and delivery may raise no or only minor environmental and ethical concerns, but which may still have effects of major concern in the way they affect the autonomy and independence of users. It is the contention of this paper that software falls into this category. This paper addresses only computer software. Other intellectual property issues are also of great importance. Control of genetic variability through gene patents is one example; World Intellectual Property Organisation treaties on copyright are another. (The latter ought to receive the same sort of critical response that the Multilateral Agreement on Investment did.) This is the context for intellectual property rights enforcement. This world market in knowledge is a major and profoundly anti-democratic new stage of capitalist development. The transformation of knowledge into property necessarily implies secrecy: common knowledge is no longer private. In this new and chilling stage, communication itself violates property rights. The WTO is transforming what was previously a universal resource of the human race - its collectively, historically and freely-developed knowledge of itself and nature - into a private and marketable force of production. (Allan Freeman, Fixing up the world? GATT and the World Trade Organisation) A good deal of the world's primary resources are located in the poorer countries of the world's "South", even if their exploitation is often in the hands of external corporations. Systems for controlling the distribution of information, on the other hand, are (like possession of capital) overwhelmingly centralised in the rich "North". This should be of great concern to organisations such as Oxfam International members which take a long-term perspective in their attempts to reduce the inequitable distribution of resources. As the United Nations Sustainable Development Networking Program says: Information and Communication Technologies are now fundamental to dealing with all development issues in developing countries. An Oxfam International Education Now report presents some of the consequences of an information economy for educational equity. _________________________________________________________________ Software: Drawbacks and Dangers The following analysis of potential political and ethical dangers in software is not meant to be complete. Nor is it an analysis which applies equally to all kinds of software. There are certain key components, such as operating systems, application programming interfaces, and software with mass deployment, on which many implementations and many other software systems depend. These are more critical than software systems with peripheral roles. The Expense Software is often prohibitively expensive. The standard price for an ordinary office package might be a year's income for most of the world's people. As one Mexican project adopting free software wrote: The primary reason for reaching this decision was the kind of money we would have had to pay if we went for proprietary software: at US$55 for each machine with Win98 and Office, US$500 for every NT license and an average of 6 workstations and one server for 140000 labs, that's a lot of money. Though "discounts" are often available on software, these tend to either be in exchange for accepting a local monopoly for the vendor's products, or an attempt to gain market share at the expense of competitors. Consider, for example, Microsoft's attempts to bribe universities and colleges into using NT. So called software "piracy" is obviously an option for those unable or unwilling to purchase software, and indeed it is a common choice throughout the South, where copyright law is often poorly enforced. But this places users at the mercy of the law, increasing their vulnerability to those rich and powerful enough to use it to their own advantage. Also, development organisations themselves are vulnerable to enforcement in their home countries, so they can not support or encourage such practices. As well as the up-front costs of software, there are usually hidden costs. Often licensing is per-user, so costs will increase with the size of the user base and inhibit growth. Support for proprietary software is almost always prohibitively expensive. Frequent software upgrades may be required to maintain compatibility and functionality (consider the deliberate modification by Microsoft of the file format in successive versions of Word, in order to force users to upgrade to newer versions). And software tends, especially with upgrades, to require more powerful, and hence more expensive, hardware. These hidden costs are often recurrent. Lack of Openness Open standards and protocols are in the interests of consumers, and indeed of most businesses: they allow genuine market competition, giving users options and choices. Closed standards and protocols and technical secrets, on the contrary, benefit only those seeking to maintain or attain monopoly control of markets by decommoditizing software. (Proprietary software can, of course, use open standards and protocols, but much of it doesn't.) Security and Privacy The use of black-box proprietary software without source code creates security risks, since it makes the detection of Trojan horses rather difficult. One high-profile case is the Melissa Virus. An extreme case is government surveillance: an Australian government report (the Walsh Report, see sections 6.2.10 and 6.2.11) has recommended that security agencies arrange for back doors to be inserted into mass-market commercial software to allow eavesdropping. Perhaps it is paranoia to think that the United States National Security Agency has already arranged for this to be done, but when peoples' lives are at stake, can one really trust (say) Microsoft Word when vulnerable West Papuan or East Timorese activists are involved? From a privacy point of view, some worrying features are known to have been built into popular proprietary software packages. Microsoft Windows and recent versions of Office include a unique computer identifier in all documents - an identifier which is sent to Microsoft on registration of software, as well as in cookies set by Microsoft's web site. The implications of this for anyone trying to maintain anonymous - whistle-blowers and activists most obviously - are frightening. (See analysis and a news report from CNET; Paul Ferris points the obvious argument for free software in "Of Corporations, Privacy, and Open Source Software".) The Creation of New Dependencies Proprietary software increases the dependence of individuals, organisations, and communities on external forces - typically large corporations with a very poor track record on acting in the public interest. There are dependencies for support, installation and problem fixing, sometimes in critical systems. There are dependencies for upgrades and compatibility. There are dependencies when modification or extended functionality is required. And there are ongoing financial dependencies if licensing is recurrent. Political dependencies can result from the use of proprietary software, too. For example, an Irish ISP under attack for hosting the top level East Timor domain .tp was helped out by hackers and community activists (setting up a secure Linux installation). Given that this attack was probably carried out with the connivance of elements of the Indonesian government, it is hard to see a commercial vendor with a significant market presence in Indonesia being so forthcoming with support. Nearly exact parallels to this exist in agriculture, where the patenting of seed varieties and genome sequences and the creation of non-seeding varieties are used to impose long-term dependencies on farmers. An Analogy: Baby-milk Powder The effects of baby-milk powder on poor infants (which has sparked a Nestle campaign/boycott) provide an analogy to the effects of proprietary software. Sending information in Microsoft Word format to correspondents in Eritrea is analagous to Nestle advertising baby milk powder to Indian mothers. It encourages the recipients to go down a path which is not in their best interests, and from which it is not easy for them to recover. The apparent benefits (the doctor recommended it; we will be able to read the documents sent to us) may be considerable and the initial costs involved (to stop breast-feeding and switch to milk powder; to start using Microsoft Office) may be subsidised, hidden, or zero (with "piracy"), but the long-term effects are to make the recipients dependent on expensive recurrent inputs, and to burden them with ultimately very high costs. Moreover, because documents can be easily copied and because there are strong pressures to conform to group/majority standards in document formats, pushing individuals towards proprietary software and document formats can snowball to affect entire communities, not just the individuals initially involved. Restrictions on Self-help Proprietary software not only creates new dependencies: it actively hinders self-help, mutual aid, and community development. * Users cannot freely share software with others in the community, or with other communities. * The possibilities for building local support and maintainance systems are limited. * Modification of software to fit local needs is not possible, leaving communities with software designed to meet the needs of wealthy Northern users and companies, which may not be appropriate for them. An Example: Language Support Language support provides a good example of the advantages of free software in allowing people to adapt products to their own ends and take control of their lives. Operating systems and word processing software support only a limited range of languages. Iceland, in order to help preserve its language, wants Icelandic support added to Microsoft Windows - and is even willing to pay for it. But without access to the source code - and the right to modify it - they are totally dependent on Microsoft's cooperation. (See an article in the Seattle Times and an article by Martin Vermeer which argues that lack of software localisation is a threat to cultural diversity.) Whatever the outcome of this particular case, it must be noted that Iceland is hardly a poor or uninfluential nation. There is absolutely no hope of Windows being modified to support Aymara or Lardil or other indigenous languages: the spread of such proprietary software will continue to contribute to their marginalisation. In contrast, the source code to the GNU/Linux operating system is available and can be freely modified, so groups are able to add support for their languages. See, as an example, the KDE Internationalization Page (KDE is a desktop for GNU/Linux) or a project to localise GNU/Linux for Indian languages. Another example of the kind of thing that access to source code allows is the Omega Typesetting System, a modification of the free TeX typesetting system "designed for printing all of the world's languages, modern or ancient, common or rare"; this sort of extension or modification is simply not possible with proprietary word-processing packages. Unsustainable Sustainable development should favour unlimited resources over finite ones. But while software appears to be a renewable resource, its control by profit-making corporations, as Intellectual Property, effectively turns it into a finite resource. _________________________________________________________________ The Advantages of Free Software What is Free Software? The Free Software Foundation's "What is Free Software?" provides a good introduction to free software. `Free software'' refers to the users' freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. More precisely, it refers to three levels of freedom: * The freedom to study how the program works and adapt it to your needs. * The freedom to redistribute copies so you can share with your neighbor. * The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits. A key point is that "free" refers to liberty, not price. Software is only "free" if users have the freedom to copy, modify, and distribute it, and to share it with others. A key necessity for this is access to the source code. Prominent examples of free software are the Linux kernel and the GNU system environment, which together constitute a complete operating system (an alternative to Windows or MacOS), and the Apache web server and sendmail mail transport agent, which between them provide more than 50% of the Internet's web sites and handle perhaps 80% of the world's email. Pragmatic Advantages Quite independently of any ethical and political considerations, there are also pragmatic and technical arguments for the deployment of free software systems. * Some free software products are widely recognised as more reliable and robust, more powerful, and more secure than their proprietary counterparts, and a plausible argument can be made that this is not just accidental, but a consequence of their open development, implementation, and testing. Rob Bos puts it well in 32bitsonline Free software is better than non-free software. It works better, it works faster, it works longer. Open source programs are tried and proven, they are constantly pressed from every direction to do specific tasks, and do them well; and for the simple reason that they are written to work, not simply to sell copies. Free software doesn't just work better, it works orders of magnitude better. Open sourcing an application gives the source code to a large number of developers, instead of a small, tight group. Free software projects have a pool of developers and an effective budget multiple times higher than an equivalent proprietary development project, and will, given all other equal things, advance at a rate many times faster because of their access to an much larger development team. Peer review of code isn't just a pipe dream, it is an essential means to writing superior applications, no matter where they are written. * Free software can typically be obtained for the cost of the media (typically a few dollars for a CD) or network traffic (for distribution via computer networks). It can always be freely distributed. The pragmatic benefits of this should be obvious, but in some contexts the price of free software can also take on political significance: I live in India, one of the poorest countries in the world, with a large number of awfully bright, poor people. In India, today, the entry-level programmer (C knowledge but no work experience) earns $100 a month, and it is not routine for him to have a computer at home. Entry-level computers at $250 and below will attract millions of buyers in India, who will find the difference between $250 and $750 to be a massive one. Industry experts look at around 200 million existing computers, 80% of which run Microsoft OSes. It's useful to focus on the next billion computer sales. In this, I see the price-tag of $0 as being a critical product feature. Ajay Shah - Unix on a billion desktops? * Free software is often less demanding of resources, extending the lifespan of older hardware. As an example of what this allows, consider Project Computer Bank, an Australian venture to supply old computer equipment running GNU/Linux to low income earners, community groups, and disadvantaged schools. Freedom From Dependencies ``Community Aid Abroad's vision is for a fair world in which people control their own lives, their basic rights are achieved and the environment is sustained.'' (emphasis added) Free software does not create dependencies on multinational corporations. Support commonly comes from user groups and online communities, which often provide vastly better support than commercial alternatives. Commercial support is available for free software systems, but users of free software can not be tied to single suppliers or vendors. Access to the source code greatly increases users' options. It allows not just the unrestricted sharing of software packages but also their easy modification to suit local needs and requirements. The value of free software in avoiding dependencies has been recognised by businesses and by governments. Let's say you are a chief technical officer (CTO) at a Fortune 500 company and you have just spent millions of dollars on a strategic business system with software you cannot see inside and cannot modify, software that depends on a single vendor to service. Now are those systems going to change to serve your business plan or your vendor's business plan? ...it probably will not be long before buying closed-source software for your key infrastructure is considered the height of irresponsibility. Eric S. Raymond in Intellectual Capital "Scandinavia, Germany, and France are some of the main centers of Linux use. Some people say that this is because companies and the government want to avoid becoming too dependent on U.S. -- read Microsoft -- products." Kalle Dalheimer, quoted in OSS Europe Development of free software is done by those who have the necessary skills and resources - the resulting products are available for use by whoever needs it. With Linux, the people who use the system get to [affect the way] the system [develops]. It's democracy in the sense that you don't surrender control. Anybody can do anything. It boils down to [the fact that] you must be [competent], but that's a good way of separating the people who do the work. And even the [people who] don't make changes can make suggestions and can do testing and things like that. Linus Torvalds, interview with upsidedown.com. Shared Values Most free software has been produced through decentralised, community-based development processes which are usually open to anyone with the right technical skills (or a willingness to learn) who is prepared to do the work. Users of free software can join software development communities and participate in the refinement and improvement of existing software, or in the development of entirely new programs, building on what already exists. Many free software development projects are almost model community development projects. They are based on open communication, inclusiveness, personal relationships, and working for the good of the community as a whole. In a paper Technology and Pleasure, Gisle Hannemyr describes the history of the "hacker" community, placing it in the artisan tradition and in opposition to Taylorism. He describes its imperatives as: * reject hierarchies * mistrust authority * promote decentralization * share information * serve your community and includes among its position statements: * when creating computer artifacts, not only the observable results, but the craftsmanship in execution matters * practice is superior to theory * people should only be judged on merit (not by appearance, age, race or position) * you can create art and beauty by the means of a computer The long-term effects of free software and associated changes are likely to be significant: Oscar Wilde says somewhere that the problem with socialism is that it takes up too many evenings. The problems with anarchism as a social system are also about transaction costs. But the digital revolution alters two aspects of political economy that have been otherwise invariant throughout human history. All software has zero marginal cost in the world of the Net, while the costs of social coordination have been so far reduced as to permit the rapid formation and dissolution of large-scale and highly diverse social groupings entirely without geographic limitation. Such fundamental change in the material circumstances of life necessarily produces equally fundamental changes in culture. Ebden Moglen, Anarchism Triumphant: Free Software and the Death of Copyright In many ways the ethics of free software reflect that of the Internet community more generally - a community which is still resisting commercialisation of the Net. Education and Technology Transfer Free software both encourages learning and experimentation and in turn benefits from it. Free software is widespread in educational institutions, since access to the source code makes free software an ideal tool for teaching: indeed much free software began as learning exercises. Due to low start-up costs and rapid change, software development and the information economy more generally offer a possible way for the South to build high value industries, leapfrogging older technologies and even modes of production. The flourishing Indian software industry provides an obvious example. But if these industries are built on proprietary products and protocols owned by multinational corporations, then this will only reinforce one-sided dependencies. Free software has obvious advantages here. Free software lends itself to collaborative, community-based development at all scales from cottage industry to world-wide efforts involving the collaboration of thousands of people. Internet access potentially offers the poor the ability to communicate directly with the rest of the world, to directly present their own ideas and perspectives. Combined with the free software development model, it allows them to participate in creating and moulding the technologies and systems that will determine their future. _________________________________________________________________ Free Software in Action The advantages of free software for community and development organisations have been recognised by others: The arguments sketched above apply not just to development organisations but to governments and to some extent even to businesses. The United Nations UNESCO is handing out free Linux CDROMs to community, scientific, and educational projects in Latin America. We believe LINUX can play a very important role in Latin American and Caribbean modernisation, constructing networks to permit a great number of universities, colleges, schools and educational centers, to connect to Internet in order to use this fabulous tool to improve their scientific and cultural levels. In a few words, LINUX is the tool which permits to reduce the "technological gap" between the countries. LINUX permits the acces to "the informatics the most advanced" implemented according to the reduced economic capacities in our region. LINUX is a new way to make informatics, where the most important thing is "the technical quality and people solidarity" And the UNDP is running a Sustainable Development Networking Program, with support from the Linux vendor Red Hat. Mexico's Scholar Net (http://www.linux.org.mx/arturo/scholar/) I work as the project leader of the "Scholar Net", a program that aims to bring computers and the net to every elementary and mid-level school in Mexico. We expect to install from 20 to 35 thousand labs per year to a total of 140,000 centers in the next five years. Due to matters of cost, reliability and configurability, we plan to use GNU/Linux to replace the proprietary server options and, now thanks to GNOME, the proprietary desktop application options. SatelLife SatelLife is an international not-for-profit organization employing satellite, telephone and radio networking technology to serve the health communication and information needs of countries in the developing world. http://www.data.com/issue/981021/people.html For starters, the staff of Satellife had to seek out and master technologies cheap enough for users in the world's poorest countries but reliable enough to deliver vital medical information fast. And the organization didn't have the funds that corporate IT departments have for equipment and software-so it used free and open-source software to link users to forums. And as the Internet became a more vital tool, Satellife had to make sure that users without browsers could still get information via the Web. It also used second-hand gear where possible and relied on research institutes and discussion groups, rather than high-priced consultants, for advice. The Littlefish Health Project Project Vision: "To create a user friendly patient information and recall system on an open source basis with the focus on use by community based primary health care health organisations in the developing world or remote and rural areas or areas of need. (And Daniel L. Johnson has written a paper on free software in medical information management.) The Community Broadcasting Association of Australia (CBAA) An impassioned but carefully put together argument for use of Linux by the CBAA. Arguing on both technical and ethical grounds, most of this is directly relevant to development organisations. The open source movement, and Linux is particular, are massive volunteer non-profit projects which share the spirit of community media. It's a radical alternative movement creating successful mainstream software. In fact, it's the same movement that produced the software that the internet revolution depends on. Now the movement has produced a cutting edge technology which suits the CBAA's needs far better than the commercial competition. The technology is Linux. A Linux server is one the CBAA could be proud of. (Also mentioned in a Newswire story on the politics of software.) _________________________________________________________________ Conclusion and Recommendations The free software movement embodies principles consistent with those of Community Aid Abroad and Oxfam International. Free software products are tools which fit the needs of Oxfam International members, in many cases better than alternative proprietary products. It is therefore recommended that: * Development organisations should include software in their policies on ethical purchasing and appropriate technology; such policies should encourage the use of free software and open protocols. * Development organisations should encourage and assist project partners in the deployment of software systems that will enable them to "take control of their own destiny", and to reduce their dependence on the developed world. They should consider the major advantages free software has in this area. * Development organisations should ultimately try to free themselves from the shackles of proprietary software. Danny Yee (danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au) _________________________________________________________________ The author is one of the Community Aid Abroad webmasters, a board member of Electronic Frontiers Australia, and an employee of Sydney University. But the opinions expressed in this paper are personal and do not necessarily reflect the policies of any of these organisations. Thanks to Cameron Tampion, Mike Gifford, Charlie Brady, Greg Taylor, Ronni Martin, and Richard Stallman for feedback on this document. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 05:49:40 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rejin NS) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:19:40 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] e-governance Message-ID: <001701c11e3b$97e2a000$0e00a8c0@PITSOL> Hello, It is disturbing to note that e-governance initiatives are taken without visualising the whole picture. I think the Kerala IT Mission is using GNU/Linux. Andhra Pradesh has also e-governance systems in place. So at the end, will we have another e-governance initiative for India as a whole? Is it not logical for us to develop interoperable systems? Obviously there will be common functionality. Who is the right agency for overseeing this? Who will set standards? Along with communicating our thoughts to the Govt. of WB, should we not impress upon the Central Govt.? Regards, Rejin. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 06:01:54 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:31:54 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <86hevnyx1o.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> References: <86hevnyx1o.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <20010806113154.A1590@debianut.ekmnet> [Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 09:31:55AM +0530] Khuzaima A. Lakdawala : > The Free Software Movement is not in the Marketing business. > We are in the Advocacy business, lest we forget. Well put, we now need people talking more about *free* software. The Open Source guys say that talk is nonsensical, they say show us the code...a sure fire recipe for disaster ! Shall we go to the schools and colleges and talk about the GNU, about *freedom and computing* ? -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 05:10:46 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:40:46 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <01080610152800.11300@athena> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 at 10:15, Satish Babu wrote: In the first place, I should thank Raju for coming out with a powerful letter. I believe that there should be a local group who can take up this issue and lobby the government. Are we aware of any individual or groups in WB who can highlight the dangers of this tie-up? Can we operate through local NGOs? After working in NGOs for long, I think NGOs can be powerful allies in this struggle. This seems to be a viable method in the local level to put pressure on the WB government. I also think that FSF-India should be prepared, with appropriate tools (at the very least, a dossier of documents that explain our position, and quoting examples of governments of other provinces and countries) to respond to such situations at short notice. Exactly. Raju's letter is powerfully drafted. I wonder if such a letter should be sent by snail-mail or e-mail? Would clogging up the CM's mailbox brand us as cyber terrorists? Why not we have a web page for all those interested to sign? We shall keep the page for a period of one week or ten days and propagate the news to all the mailing lists inviting people to sign the document. After the specified period, we can submit a mass memorandum to the WB government. In the meantime, FSF Board can work out the dossier of documents. Any thoughts? -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 06:02:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:32:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] GNU/Linux in Schools from a guy in school In-Reply-To: <001101c11c9d$2714c3c0$0cc96565@dreammachine>; from varun@cilmail.com on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 02:30:11PM +0530 References: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> <20010802162112.A778@orion> <001101c11c9d$2714c3c0$0cc96565@dreammachine> Message-ID: <20010806113257.A13907@mailandnews.com> On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 02:30:11PM +0530, Varun Sinha wrote: > > But the truth is my principal isn't all that concerned about free software; > he is much more interested in setting up a full-fledged computer system at a > fraction of the cost it would cost him to do so using proprietary software > (we don't have one right now). A school is a place where people are supposed to learn some thing. What is the use of having all the non free software in the world in a school, when you are not even free to find out how it works (you are a pirate if you try). Ofcource, the school can boast of a >>full-fledged computer system<<, but students are not going to benefit. So I feel that your principal is wrong. FREEDOM is the main (and only reason for a private school atleast) to switch to free software. > Besides the fact that the software itself is > a lot more cost-effective, the hardware costs would also be greatly reduced. True, but suppose someone donates a whole lab to the school, but with non free software. It is going to be of very little use to students. > > The only downside I can think of is training and support. People who know > about proprietary software are dime-a-dozen You mean people who know to click a mouse button and cause a drop down menu to drop down. Such knowlege is not worth teaching in a school. > The point about using GUI for most tasks seems to make sense. It would be > alot easier for people, especially teachers (students might be able to) to > work with GUI. I feel that the choice of interface should be left to the user. > > My entire opinion is based mainly with my school in mind, maybe the > situation is different in other places. A school is not more important at the students who expect to learn something from the school. It may be good to be patriotic about a school but not at the cost of its students. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 08:34:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:04:52 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <3B6CD73E.1020604@iiitmk.org>; from director@iiitmk.org on Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 10:48:54AM +0530 References: <3B6CD73E.1020604@iiitmk.org> Message-ID: <20010806140451.C1207@orion> > The best way to promote FS is through a constructive approach. Pointing > out failures of non-FS to deliver and how we are being taken for a ride > is not going to take us far. We must highlight FS successes, educate the > yougsters, the decision makers, etc. True. > Decision makers often have little time and work under all kinds of > pressures. They often need experts to advice and this they dont get. > Instead of projecting Fredom, Democracy, etc. , we have to educate on > what is in the national and society's interests. If it sounds too much Freedom and Democracy are two major interests of our nation. > We can evolve some healWe have to remember that being in this world, > free and 'not-free' will continue to exist - as humans there will always Fight for freedom never ends. > iv) Proporietory solutions that guarantee freedom from undesirable > cookies and with known input and output formats. so that these systems > can be expanded by intergration with other systems. > v) Proprietory solutions with unknown input / output formats and > guarantee of freedom from user unknown cookies. > vi) Proprietory software with unknown cookies should have the lowest > priority in the category. Is it ever possible to make sure that Proprietory solutions doesnt have 'undesirable cookies' ? Especially if the solution comes from US. (Which has got a very 'clean' history of putting malicious components in what they export.) > guidelines. We also msut oppose (as the Europeans are doing) software > patents. It is a minefield not unlike the issues under bioiversity and > traditional herbal medicine practices. we must develop a national > consensus and against software patents. Yes, we must. And consensus against NDA in educational institutions. > I am opening an Authoring Web site at iiitmk.ac.in > > We shall start posing a number issues concerning specific learning > modules. Experts may send us contents that we shall titch together as > courses. > > Send me any amount of problems, solutions, mini-projects (for students > practice) in FS that I can use for classrooms and freely distribute to > others. Let us give a FS learning platform for colleges to use. In > particular I am looking for the following courses. It is an excellent idea and there are few other initiatives like this. They may also join. www.andamooka.org is one of them. > 1. Data Structures and Algorithms. > 2. Programming Languages - with examples from C, C++ and Java. (Big US > Schools use Scheme as the base languages as best suited for teaching. > Java may be as good. Give your opinion). I prefer Scheme/Guile and Python. Python is excellent learning tool. > 3. Operating Systems - with text as Applied Operating Systems by > Silbetschatz, et al - and prefer GNU/Linux and C as the learning support. > 4. Web Technologies - over Apache, Sun Java, Mozilla, etc. > 5. RDBMS, ODBC based applications, OODB - what FS? PostgresSQL and MySQL > We also need to prepare a School Learning Platforms over FS. Need to > define some role for IT in school. Not of the kind it is today. Yes it is an important area of work. > Can any one help? The developed courses will be available a Free Courseware. (Under GNU FDL ?) > Unless we begin teaching young impressionable age group the technology > using, we shall not have the stamina to do the long-distance. True. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:42:59 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:12:59 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] Microsoft and GPL Message-ID: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 | Last Updated 11:19am Why is Microsoft Attacking the GPL? by Bryan Pfaffenberger , 27-June-2001 Microsoft sees a threat to its underlying business model, which explains the virulence of this particular round of FUD. First it was "un-American"; now it's a "virus", a "cancer" and -- are you ready for this -- "Pac-Man". Microsoft's high-profile, expensive and carefully planned attack on open-source software is swinging into high gear; so is speculation about exactly what the company hopes to achieve. Typical is the conclusion of an analyst quoted by CNET News.com: Linux has emerged as a "spoiler that will prevent Microsoft from achieving a dominant position" in the server operating system market. By means of an especially virulent FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) campaign, Microsoft hopes to scare companies away from Linux and toward Microsoft's newest offering, Windows XP. So far as it goes, this analysis is surely correct. Viewed from the perspective of business history, however, this FUD campaign seems mysteriously out of proportion with the threat actually posed by its supposed object, Linux. Sure, Linux is a threat, and that's especially true now that Linux is being so strongly backed by Microsoft's remaining market opponents, including IBM. But the FUD campaign isn't directed against Linux. Aside from occasional digs at Linux, the campaign is directed against the licensing scheme, called the General Public License (GPL), that Linux uses. To be sure, the analysts have an explanation for this, too. The GPL is controversial even within the Open Source community, so you attack Linux by attacking the GPL. But I think there's more to it. Here's my argument, in a nutshell: Business history teaches the following lesson: When a market-dominating firm engages in a FUD campaign of this magnitude, it's not merely because they're scared of competition from a new market entrant. Often, it's because the new market entrant is seen to challenge the business model that has enabled the market-dominant firm to make huge gobs of money. I believe the GPL does pose a threat to Microsoft's business model, and that's why the free software licensing scheme is under such concerted attack. Specifically, the GPL threatens Microsoft's ability to preserve what economists and legal scholars (as well as the judge in the Microsoft antitrust case) call the "application barrier to entry" -- the primary means by which Microsoft has been able to establish and preserve commanding dominance in its core markets. I'll make this argument by recounting the story of the archetypical FUD campaign, IBM's 1970s-era effort to discredit the upstart Amdahl Corporation. I'll also examine some of the evidence that's come to light -- some of it from the lips of none other than Gates himself -- since Microsoft's FUD campaign started. Let me apologize in advance for the length of this essay; the issues are too important to be glossed over. But I've included lots of subheadings so you can skim around, if you like. Classical FUD: IBM vs. Amdahl When ex-IBM executive Gene Amdahl founded Amdahl Corporation in 1970, he reflected gloomily that the new company would soon become the target of an aggressive IBM marketing strategy, which Amdahl termed "fear, uncertainty, and doubt" (FUD). As subsequent events affirmed, Amdahl's prediction was right on the money, and IBM's FUD campaign nearly put Amdahl out of business. IBM in the 1970s was huge profits with little incentive to innovate. Here's the background. IBM's mid-century executives, like those of other manufacturing firms, knew perfectly well that maximum profits follow from a "leasing-only, no-sales" policy; as economists have since theoretically demonstrated, such a policy maximizes revenues because it keeps secondary goods off the market. But US antitrust prosecution, culminating in a 1956 consent decree, forced IBM to sell as well as lease its computers. For federal regulators, the consent decree was a hollow victory. IBM neatly side-stepped the regulatory framework by means of measures such as net pricing, in which the cost of IBM installation labor was bundled into the price of IBM computer systems; customers who wished to purchase non-IBM, third-party peripherals were thus forced to pay two installation fees -- which meant that most of them chose to stay with IBM's equipment. And when IBM installed new equipment, the company generally required its customers to surrender the old equipment for "rehabilitation". Measures such as net pricing were combined with a quiet, low-level FUD campaign, which was carried out by the firm's salespeople while they were in the field. IT managers were told, "Sure, you can switch to the competitor's product, but we can't guarantee your system any more, you'll have to pay the highest per-incident charges for repairs, and we can't guarantee that our components will function correctly in the future." In other words, you're taking a dive off a cliff into the unknown, and it's going to cost your company money, and later it may cost you your job. These well-honed tactics led more than a few computing managers to agree with the famous dictum, "You'll never lose your job by choosing IBM." By means of net pricing and FUD, IBM managed to side-step antitrust regulation and retained control of the secondary market. With almost obscene profits and rapid growth, all was well at IBM, except there was little incentive to innovate. Amdahl Forms his own Company As Amdahl watched IBM's processors fall behind the technical curve, he grew increasingly concerned. At the same time that IBM was encouraging companies to move more of their business operations to IBM mainframes, the company was failing to deliver the processing horsepower that would be needed to meet customer's needs. Amdahl proposed a series of new, higher performance processors, but failed to win approval from IBM executives to develop them. Intimately familiar with IBM's processor design, Amdahl knew that it was possible to create a new generation of processors that beat IBM's products in price as well as performance. So the young engineer quit IBM and started his own company -- which still exists, incidentally, even though Amdahl is no longer associated with it. Amdahl's plans must have terrified IBM executives. Unlike IBM's ineffective and increasingly marginalized competitors, Amdahl was intimately familiar with IBM technology and proposed to manufacture IBM-compatible CPUs. If Amdahl succeeded, IBM would be transformed, in effect, into a peripheral manufacturer -- and with the loss of its control over the central processing unit would come a concomitant destruction of its highly profitable business model. The Microcode Factor What was wrong with IBM's processors? In case it has been a while since your last electrical engineering class, here's the background. A computer's central processing unit (CPU) is designed to perform a fixed number of computational operations; the list of such operations is called the CPU's instruction set. At the time, the fastest processors implemented their instruction sets by means of "hard-wired" circuits, that is, circuits built into the physical structure of the processor. When IBM designed the new series of System/360 computers, the first product line to include a range of compatible machines, the decision was made to implement the instruction set by means of microcode. In brief, microcode uses software, typically encoded in a bank of read-only memory, to implement the lion's share of the CPU's instruction set. The use of microcode enabled IBM engineers to design a single processor that could be used in all the System/360 products, from small to large. The marketing potential was enormous. For example, one of the earliest System/360 computers was offered with a microcode adjustment that enabled the computer to emulate an earlier IBM machine, the 1401. However, the use of microcode came at a price: diminished processor efficiency. Amdahl knew that he could easily beat IBM's processor performance by creating processors hard-wired with the System/360's instruction set. Amdahl Corporation's processors, accordingly, did not use IBM's microcode architecture; instead, the firm created less expensive and more powerful processors that gained economy and efficiency from hard-wiring the instruction set into the CPU. Employing an efficient, low-cost implementation of IBM's System/360 instruction set, Amdahl's first processors appeared in 1975; they undercut IBM's price-performance points yet they were fully compatible with IBM software, in which the firm's customers had made significant investments. The result was tremendous enthusiasm among Amdahl's potential customers who were quite ready to break with IBM -- even to the extent of paying IBM for components and services that weren't actually received -- if the result meant they had the processing power they needed. In 1976, Amdahl released the V/6 processor, which offered three times the performance of IBM's most powerful CPU. FUD Kicks into High Gear Faced with a threat to its underlying business model, IBM took its FUD campaign to an unprecedented level, one that involved public statements, a host of new product announcements and technological changes that seem to have been aimed squarely at Amdahl's upstart processors. In 1977, just as Amdahl Corporation seemed poised to take over a significant percentage of the processor market, IBM announced the 3033, a processor that -- IBM claimed -- would go head-to-head with the best Amdahl could offer. But IBM did not merely announce a new processor. The firm also announced revisions to the System/360 instruction set. In attempting to address the Amdahl factor, IBM scientists discovered they could improve processor efficiency by adding fourteen instructions to the System/360 instruction set. (This is quite an interesting "discovery," since it has been proven time and again since then that reducing the instruction set, not expanding it, is the best way to improve processor performance.) IBM executives and engineers vehemently denied that the microcode changes originated with Amdahl in mind, but the changes certainly had an anti-Amdahl effect. The planned changes meant that Amdahl's hard-wired processors would not continue to be compatible until Amdahl discovered the changes that IBM actually made and figured out a way to implement them. At the worst, Amdahl would have to go through the very expensive and time-consuming process of redesigning his processors. For its part, IBM made it abundantly clear to all concerned that the firm had no intention of disclosing the technical specifications of the fourteen new instructions. Amdahl would have to wait until the 3033 appeared, when he could legally obtain one of the processors and discover the nature of the new instructions through reverse engineering. From that point, it could be months or years before Amdahl would be able to release a new processor that would be compatible with the 3033. As if to pour salt in the wounds, IBM warned darkly, and publicly, that the firm felt quite free to implement additional microcode changes whenever doing so made sense for its customers. The 3033's preannouncement took the wind out of Amdahl's sails. Orders plummeted, and the few remaining customers demanded contractual guarantees that Amdahl's processors would remain compatible with IBM's. Most customers decided to sit tight until the 3033 hit the market, one year later. When the 3033 was released in 1978, the processor turned out to be inferior to Amdahl's V/6, but it did offer better performance than previous IBM processors, and it was an IBM processor. The pent-up demand for high-performance processors unleashed a deluge of orders, to the tune of $6 billion, and IBM was forced for the first time to develop a lottery program so that it could parcel out the scarce processors fairly. Although the new processor turned out to be technically inferior to Amdahl's products -- in fact, IBM's processors did not equal Amdahl's price/performance points until five years later -- Amdahl's sales declined sharply. By 1979, Amdahl was but a niche player in the mainframe industry, surviving only by means of a capital infusion from Fujitsu, Inc. Meanwhile IBM's System/370 mainframes had captured 97 percent of the market. Why the GPL Terrifies Microsoft My analysis of the 1970s IBM campaign against Amdahl suggests the following: FUD campaigns step up in virulence when the FUD-perpetrating firm sees a threat to its core business model. What's Microsoft's core business model, and how could the GPL, a mere licensing scheme, pose a meaningful threat to such a gigantic, powerful corporation? My take on Microsoft's business model is, in brief: * * Microsoft's core business model relies on an at-all-costs defense of its overwhelming market dominance in end-user operating systems, because this dominance is the lever by which the company hopes to achieve all of its myriad other ambitions, including its ambitions in the server market. * * To defend its overwhelming market dominance in end-user operating systems, Microsoft must discourage or prevent the formation of a critical-mass pool of non-Microsoft end-user applications. People don't switch to a different end-user operating system until there's a sufficiently large pool of applications from which to draw. * * To prevent pools of non-Microsoft applications from forming, Microsoft likes to appropriate what it calls "commodity protocols" (off-the-shelf, public protocols such as HTML, JavaScript, CSS and many more), and add proprietary extensions that prevent the formation of competing application pools. To grasp this model's implications firmly, consider Judge Jackson's findings in the Microsoft antitrust case. Jackson did not rule against Microsoft -- as so many people unfortunately think -- because Microsoft made a better browser, gave it away for free and trounced Netscape in the marketplace. Sure, Microsoft wants the browser platform, for all kinds of reasons. But what really terrified Microsoft executives, I believe, were the all-but-forgotten, pie-in-the-sky plans that Andreesen & Co. once made to use Netscape as the foundation for a new, network-savvy, non-Microsoft operating system and application pool. (I'll bet you didn't know this, but Netscape came up with what amounts to the .NET idea long before it ever occurred to those master innovators in Redmond.) Equally terrifying to Microsoft executives was Java, and for the same reason -- it could be used to create a non-Microsoft application pool. In both cases, noted Judge Jackson, Microsoft used "embrace and extend" not only to discourage a competitor but, more importantly, to prevent the formation of a competing application pool. Why the GPL Threatens Microsoft's Core Business Model Still with me? Here's why Microsoft is attacking the GPL: * * Microsoft can't play its "embrace and extend" game with GPL-licensed software because the company can't appropriate and modify the code. If Linux had been released under the BSD license, Microsoft would have probably already released a version of Linux, Linux++ or Linux# or L-Nux, with a variety of maddeningly incompatible oddities that taken together would make it even more difficult to develop applications for Linux. * * A GPL-licensed application pool is indeed forming around Linux, and Microsoft can't figure out how to attack it. You can't attack the companies, because -- as Eazel recently proved -- the software's still around, even if the company shuts down or gives up on the product. From the Microsoft perspective, GPL-licensed software is like those monsters from "The Night of the Living Dead": they just keep coming back at you. Doubtful? Read this: Mr. Gates made the following statement last week to a CNET News.com reporter: "The ecosystem where you have free software and commercial software -- and customers always get to decide which they use -- that's a very important and healthy ecosystem", Gates told the interviewer. But the GPL, Gates says, "breaks that cycle -- that is, it makes it impossible for a commercial company to use any of that work or build on any of that work. So what you saw with TCP/IP or Sendmail or the browser could never happen. We believe there should be free software and commercial software; there should be a rich ecosystem that works around that." If Mr. Gates can forgive me for putting words in his mouth, here's my translation: "There should be free software that we can appropriate and modify -- we just love BSD stuff -- as well as Microsoft software. That's very healthy (for us), because we can use this system and our embrace and extend tricks to keep competing application pools from forming. But we can't do that with GPL-licensed software. GPL-licensed software is not enriching for Microsoft; it scares the living daylights out of us, in fact." In the coming weeks, you're likely to see Microsoft pressure to force the U.S. government to disallow the use of the GPL as a license for software created with public funds. If my analysis is correct, the decision should go the other way -- the government should require anyone developing software with government funds to release the software under the GPL. It's the only way to ensure there's a meaningful public commons of freely available software that can't be manipulated for predatory purposes. Bryan Pfaffenberger is Associate Professor of Technology, Culture and Communication at the University of Virginia, in Charlottesville, VA. Copyright 2001 Specialized Systems Consultants, Inc. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 08:30:37 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Joy Chatterjee) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 14:00:37 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [Reader-list] Re: [LIG] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <01080612485801.00795@krishna> References: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010806134757.009fc060@mail.sarai.net> "Where as in case of GNU/Linux anyone can add the Indian Language layer depending on the needs." Its all theory but in reality MS Office has a hindi version but any Linux software do not have any hindi version, Quark Express is also working on a hindi version but Linux doesn't even have any publishing software like QuarkExpress (and also web designing software), forget about Indian versions. It is more over frustrating to see that there is no alternative of server end bitstream technology for easy viewing of indian web pages in Linux. But truth is IE has! So I don't know how Linux people claim that Linux has more scope in Indian language, where as proprietary models are already working on it !!! Joy At 12:48 PM 8/6/01 +0530, Prakash Advani wrote: >Dear Raju, > >This is execellent if everyone can send out this document to their respective >state goverments. I hope modifications to the documents are allowed and >encouraged GPL ? ;-) > >I would also recommend you add something about localisation issues. In case >of Proprietory operating systems localisation is decided by the company only >if they see $$$$ coming in not in the interest of the people. Where as in >case of GNU/Linux anyone can add the Indian Language layer depending on the >needs. In fact all the localisation efforts so far have been started with >Goverments funds (CDAC/NCST). By putting their efforts GNU/Linux they funds >would be better utilised. > >Regards >Prakash > >On Sunday 05 August 2001 12:23, Raju Mathur wrote: > > Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State government > > which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I am making it as > > general-purpose as possible so that more people are willing to sign > > it: this is not a time for family squabbles. I'd appreciate any > > additions/enhancements which can be made to this letter. URL's > > highlighting the points discussed would also be a great idea. Not > > being an activist, I cannot suggest the proper methods for getting > > this letter signed and circulated to the right authorities. > > >_______________________________________________ >Reader-list mailing list >Reader-list@sarai.net >http://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 02:43:40 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajagopal C.V) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:13:40 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Raju Mathur wrote: : We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom proponents : in India are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans : to base your complete e-governance infrastructure on a single foreign : company's products. The history of Microsoft has shown that it has : very little regard for serving any objectives except its own, which : does not augur well for the future of in particular : and our country in general. : : We request you to kindly consider the following points before making : this relationship permanent: : : 3. Internal security : : Microsoft is a company owned by American citizens, having its base of : operations in the USA and subject to US laws. A clear effect of this : was evidenced in 1999 when it was discovered that some of the security : and cryptography functions built into Microsoft's operating systems : were subject to be used by the US National Security Agency (NSA) : without explicit permission from either Microsoft or the user of the : software. : : This is one lone ``feature'' of Microsoft software which came to light : due to the vigilance of a concerned individual. However it is quite : possible (indeed, likely) that there are other ways in which Microsoft : products are designed and constructed to permit illegal access by US : security agencies. As concerned Indians, we would wish to be secure : in the knowledge that the software handling our critical information : about Government and individuals will not permit foreign Governments : to spy upon, or, even worse, arbitrarily modify it without the consent : or knowledge of our elected representatives and the Government : machine. The FSF-India should immediately respond to this challenge posed by the MS in placing the WB people in a software trap. Since the FSF India has its office in Trivandrum where a lot of Central Committee members of the Communist Party of India are also staying, the FSF office bears can meet these top party functionaries and explain the points raised in the Raju Mathur's letter to them. The party leaders, I hope, will definitely prevail upon the left government in West Bengal and persuade the latter to desist from its latest move. Most of the politicians are totally unaware of the threats a proprietary software can pose to the public. If need be the FSF-India can immediately convene a press conference to alert( or enlighten) the press on the points highlighted by Raju Mathur. -- Rajagopal CV ____________________________________________________________________ GPG - Fingerprint: 87CF B2EE BE47 A69E 97F4 F891 96C2 90D4 F568 438A GPG - public key http://www.river-valley.com/gpg/cvr3.gpg ____________________________________________________________________ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:40:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:10:56 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] MIT's Open Courseware Message-ID: MIT to make nearly all course materials available free on the World Wide Web Unprecedented step challenges 'privatization of knowledge' APRIL 4, 2001 CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- The Massachusetts Institute of Technology--in an unprecedented step in world-wide education--announced today it plans to make the materials for nearly all its courses freely available on the Internet over the next ten years. The website for the project--MIT OpenCourseWare--would include material such as lecture notes, course outlines, reading lists, and assignments for each course. Over the next decade, the project expects to provide materials for over 2,000 courses across MIT's entire curriculum--in architecture and planning, engineering, humanities, arts, social sciences, management, and science. MIT President Charles M. Vest said of the program: "MIT OpenCourseWare is a bold move that will change the way the Web is used in higher education. With the content posted for all to use, it will provide an extraordinary resource, free of charge, which others can adapt to their own needs. We see it as source material that will support education worldwide, including innovations in the process of teaching and learning itself." Professor Steven Lerman, chair of the MIT faculty, said that the project stemmed both from enthusiasm for the opportunities that the Internet affords for wide-spread sharing of educational ideas, and from concern over the growing "privatization of knowledge." He noted that many universities, including MIT, see the Internet as a means of delivering revenue-generating distance education. But, he said, "we also need to take advantage of the tremendous power of the Internet to build on the tradition at MIT and in American higher education of open dissemination of educational materials and innovations in teaching." The project would begin as a large-scale pilot program over the next two years, starting with the design of the software and services needed to support such a large endeavor, as well as protocols to monitor and assess its utilization by faculty and students at MIT and throughout the world. By the end of the two-year period, it is expected that materials for more than 500 courses would be available on the MIT OpenCourseWare (OCW) site. MIT sees a variety of benefits coming from the MIT OCW project: * Institutions around the world could make direct use of the MIT OCW materials as references and sources for curriculum development. These materials might be of particular value in developing countries that are trying to expand their higher education systems rapidly. * Individual learners could draw upon the materials for self-study or supplementary use. * The MIT OCW infrastructure could serve as a model for other institutions that choose to make similar content open and available. * Over time, if other universities adopt this model, a vast collection of educational resources will develop and facilitate widespread exchange of ideas about innovative ways to use those resources in teaching and learning. * MIT OCW will serve as a common repository of information and channel of intellectual activity that can stimulate educational innovation and cross-disciplinary educational ventures. The program will continue the tradition of MIT's leadership in educational innovation, as exemplified by the engineering science revolution in the 1960s. At that time, MIT engineering faculty radically revised their curricula and produced new textbooks that brought the tools of modern science, mathematics, and computing into the core of the engineering curriculum. As their students joined the engineering faculties of universities throughout the country, they took with them their own course notes from MIT, and spread the new approach to engineering education. In similar spirit, but with new technologies, MIT OCW will make it possible to quickly disseminate new knowledge and educational content in a wide range of fields. President Vest commented that the idea of OpenCourseWare is particularly appropriate for a research university such as MIT, where ideas and information move quickly from the laboratory into the educational program, even before they are published in textbooks. MIT believes that implementation of OCW will complement and stimulate innovation in ways that may not even be envisioned at this point. "We expect that MIT OCW will raise the tide of educational innovation within MIT and elsewhere," said MIT Provost Robert A. Brown. "By making up-to-date educational content widely available," he said, "OCW will focus faculty efforts on teaching and learning on their campuses. It also will facilitate a new style of national and global collaboration in education through the sharing of educational content and the potential of telecommunications for real-time interactions." The concept of MIT OpenCourseWare was born from deliberations of a study group chartered by MIT's Council on Educational Technology. The Council, a group of educational leaders from throughout MIT, asked the study group to consider ways to use Internet technology to enhance education within MIT as well as MIT's influence on education on a global scale. The group was composed of faculty and staff from MIT, and was assisted by consultants from Booz-Allen & Hamilton (BAH), who are helping with organizational aspects of the project. The Booz-Allen team was led by BAH Vice President Reginald Van Lee. Mr. Van Lee, an MIT alumnus, said "MIT continues its role as the preeminent, global leader in the development and dissemination of new ideas and knowledge. We are excited to have contributed to this innovative and important step in the advancement of higher education." CONTACT: Patti Richards MIT Lab for Computer Science Phone: 617-253-8923 prichards@lcs.mit.edu _________________________________________________________________ MIT OpenCourseWare - Fact Sheet 1. What is MIT OpenCourseWare? The idea behind MIT OpenCourseWare (MIT OCW) is to make MIT course materials that are used in the teaching of almost all undergraduate and graduate subjects available on the web, free of charge, to any user anywhere in the world. MIT OCW will radically alter technology-enhanced education at MIT, and will serve as a model for university dissemination of knowledge in the Internet age. Such a venture will continue the tradition at MIT and in American higher education of open dissemination of educational materials, philosophy, and modes of thought, and will help lead to fundamental changes in the way colleges and universities engage the web as a vehicle for education. MIT OpenCourseWare will provide the content of, but is not a substitute for, an MIT education. The most fundamental cornerstone of the learning process at MIT is the interaction between faculty and students in the classroom, and amongst students themselves on campus. 2. What course materials would be available on OpenCourseWare? MIT OCW will make available the core teaching materials that are used in MIT classes. Depending on the particular class or the style in which the course is taught, this could include material such as lecture notes, course outlines, reading lists, and assignments for each course. More technically sophisticated content will be encouraged. 3. In what format will the course materials be placed on the web? The MIT OCW website will be coherent in design but flexible enough to accommodate many different types of courses, lectures, seminars, etc. The design and searching capabilities will help users locate materials by discipline and subject area, type of materials, name of individual faculty or author, and type of instruction. 4. How does OpenCourseWare differ from other types of web-based education, including distance learning? Many individual faculty at MIT and other universities already use the web extensively to make standard course materials available to their students. Some colleges and universities now require a website for every class. But, to a large extent, these websites are designed for and access is provided only to the students of these institutions. MIT OCW is an unprecedented institutional effort of a much broader magnitude, as the goal is to provide the course materials free and open to the world. Nothing of this scale has ever been attempted before. MIT OCW is not a distance learning initiative. Distance learning involves the active exchange of information between faculty and students, with the goal of obtaining some form of a credential. Increasingly, distance learning is also limited to those willing and able to pay for materials or course delivery. MIT OCW is not meant to replace degree granting higher education. Rather, the goal is to provide the content that supports an education. 5. Who will use OpenCourseWare and what are the potential benefits? The materials on the OCW site will be open and freely available worldwide for non-commercial purposes such as research and education, providing an extraordinary resource, free of charge, which others can adapt to their own needs. Some of the anticipated benefits are: * Faculty at colleges and universities around the world can use the OCW materials to develop new curricula and specific courses. These materials might be of particular value in developing countries that are trying to expand their higher education systems rapidly. * Individual learners could draw upon the materials for self-study or supplementary use. * The OCW infrastructure could serve as a model for other institutions that choose to make similar content open and available. * Over time, if other universities adopt this model, a vast collection of educational resources would develop and could facilitate widespread exchange of ideas about innovative ways to use those resources in teaching and learning. * Within MIT, OCW would serve as a common repository of information and a channel of intellectual activity that would stimulate educational innovation and cross-disciplinary educational ventures. 6. Are faculty required to participate in MIT OCW? Participation of MIT faculty in MIT OCW will be voluntary, although judging by the number who already actively utilize the web as part of their teaching, we expect that within 10 years, over 2000 MIT courses will be available on the MIT OCW website. Resources will be available to provide teaching assistants and professional production support for developing and maintaining the MIT OCW website. MIT will commit to the continuous support of the MIT OCW educational environment. 7. Are there other experiments in educational technology at MIT? MIT is undertaking a number of ambitious projects to enhance and potentially transform the educational experience through the use of new technologies. These projects are stimulated and supported by MIT's Council on Educational Technology and by Project I-Campus, a collaboration between MIT and Microsoft Research. Listed below are examples of such projects: * TEAL: The TEAL Project will establish a technology enabled active learning environment for large enrollment physics courses, which will serve as a national model for such instruction. Building on the experience of other universities, TEAL will merge lectures, recitations, and hands-on laboratory experience into a technologically and collaboratively rich experience. Software and teaching materials developed in this effort will be made available nationally at little or no cost, in the hopes of motivating a national effort along these lines. * WebLab: MIT students can now test and probe fragile, microscopic electronic structures via a novel online lab that can be accessed from dorm rooms and other locations 24 hours a day. Although the lab's focus is the study of microelectronic devices, WebLab has the potential to revolutionize science and engineering education by providing online access to state-of-the-art labs. * ArchNet: The ArchNet project is based on the idea that educational technology should be employed to create and enhance learning communities. All community members will have individual workspaces in ArchNet which provide them with personalized entry points to the system, and which also allow them to represent themselves and their work to other members of the community. Learning community environments of this sort will be very widely used in professional education in the coming years. MIT is also engaged in several collaborative and distance learning projects around the world. In the future the technologies that are being developed to support these efforts will also be utilized to enhance OCW materials. Some of these projects include: * MIT's Design Studio of the Future (DSOF): The DSOF is an interdisciplinary effort between the School of Architecture and Planning and the School of Engineering that focuses on geographically distributed electronic design and work group collaboration. As a design project moves along, aspects of the work can be shared, discussed, changed, and implemented through electronic means. * MIT-Singapore Alliance: In November 1998, MIT joined in an alliance with the two leading research universities in Singapore--the National University of Singapore and Nanyang Technological University--to explore the application of information technology in the creation of a new global model for long-distance engineering education and collaborative research. * MIT's System Design and Management Program (SDM): MIT's first degree granting program offered through distance education, SDM provides students with expertise in both management sciences and engineering, specifically in the areas of system design and new product development. * Cambridge-MIT Institute: This is a new enterprise between MIT and Cambridge University in England that will develop educational and research programs designed to stimulate the development of new technologies, to encourage entrepreneurship, and to improve productivity and competitiveness. A key component will be an undergraduate student exchange program. 8. What intellectual property policies will govern OCW materials? The policies toward the intellectual property created for MIT OCW will be clear and consistent with other policies for scholarly material used in education. Faculty will retain ownership of most materials prepared for MIT OCW, following the MIT policy on textbook authorship. MIT will retain ownership only when significant use has been made of the Institute's resources. If student course work is placed on the MIT OCW site, then copyright in the work remains with the student. 9. What is the projected timetable for OpenCourseWare? If funding comes through as hoped for, we would begin a pilot program in the fall of 2001, with a goal of making over 500 courses available on the World Wide Web over the next 2 1/2 years. Over the next decade, the project expects to provide over 2000 courses across MIT's entire curriculum--in architecture and planning, engineering, humanities, arts, social sciences, management, and science. 10. How will OpenCourseWare be funded? We are currently seeking outside funding partners to help cover the start-up and annual costs of the project for the first decade of operation. We anticipate that development costs during the initial phase of the project will be between $7.5 million and $10 million per year. _________________________________________________________________ MIT OpenCourseWare - Faculty Views Paul Penfield, Jr. Dugald C. Jackson Professor of Electrical Engineering in the Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, and affiliated with MIT's Microsystems Technology Laboratories. Comment from Professor Penfield: Everybody knows that the way to make progress in science is by using the best results of others -- "standing on the shoulders of giants" is one way of expressing this idea. That's why we publish scientific results. OCW will let the same thing happen in education. I'm personally looking forward to having my ideas used and improved on by others. _________________________________________________________________ Jonathan A. King Professor of Molecular Biology Comment from Professor King: This initiative is particularly valuable for courses covering emerging new areas of knowledge, as well as intersecting disciplines. Having spent many years developing a course on protein folding that served the needs of biochemists, chemists, chemical engineers and computational biologists, I am delighted that this work will be made available to a far broader audience. _________________________________________________________________ Olivier J. Blanchard Class of 1941 Professor Deparment Head, Department of Economics Comment from Professor Blanchard: A clear case of a small effort, and large benefits. I very much hope that our collective lecture notes become the most popular net destination. _________________________________________________________________ Shigeru Miyagawa Professor of Linguistics and Kochi Prefecture-John Manjiro Professor of Japanese Language and Culture Comment from Professor Miyagawa: OCW reflects the idea that, as scholars and teachers, we wish to share freely the knowledge we generate through our research and teaching. While MIT may be better known for our research, with OCW, we wish to showcase the quality of our teaching. _________________________________________________________________ John Lienhard Professor of Mechanical Engineering Comment from Professor Lienhard: Why do I support OpenCourseWare? Last year, I posted my undergraduate heat transfer textbook on the web for no-charge distribution. It is a 700 page pdf file, fully hyperlinked, and also properly typeset. In the domestic book market, the cost for this book would be $85 for the hardback or $45 for the paperback. My aim, however, is to provide the knowledge to those who can't afford to buy the book. The book has been downloaded by users from around the globe. Those users include many professors and students at remote universities in the third world. But the book is also being downloaded by students at universities in the United States and engineers in domestic industry. So the reach of my ebook has been quite broad. I therefore have every reason to believe that MIT's OpenCourseWare Initiative will immediately gain such a worldwide reach, and that it will allow MIT to expand its influence to students, teachers, and technical professionals, domestically and, especially, in less-developed nations. _________________________________________________________________ Stephen C. Graves Abraham J. Siegel Professor of Management & Engineering Systems Co-director, Leaders for Manufacturing Program & System Design and Management Program Comment from Professor Graves: The OpenCourseWare initiative is a bold act of leadership by MIT to apply technology to foster a global learning community that conceivably will strengthen all components of our higher education system. =========================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:38:23 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:08:23 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] FAX Numbers of WB GOVT. Message-ID: <1055.192.168.0.4.997090703.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 at 10:15, Satish Babu wrote: > > > In the first place, I should thank Raju for coming out > with a > powerful letter. > > I believe that there should be a local group who can > take up > this issue and lobby the government. Are we aware of any > individual or groups in WB who can highlight the > dangers of > this tie-up? Can we operate through local NGOs? After > working > in NGOs for long, I think NGOs can be powerful allies > in this > struggle. > > This seems to be a viable method in the local level to > put pressure on the > WB government. > > I also think that FSF-India should be prepared, with > appropriate tools (at the very least, a dossier of > documents > that explain our position, and quoting examples of > governments > of other provinces and countries) to respond to such > situations at short notice. > > Exactly. > > Raju's letter is powerfully drafted. I wonder if such > a letter > should be sent by snail-mail or e-mail? Would clogging > up the > CM's mailbox brand us as cyber terrorists? > > Why not we have a web page for all those interested to > sign? We > shall keep the page for a period of one week or ten days > and > propagate the news to all the mailing lists inviting > people to sign the > document. > > After the specified period, we can submit a mass > memorandum to the WB > government. In the meantime, FSF Board can work out the > dossier of > documents. i posted this message two hours ago i donna what happened i am sending it again. Well we can Fax the letter signed by FSF india board Members to the higher officials immedialtely. Buddhadev Bhattacharya (Chief Minister): 0332215480 Mr Sitaram Yechuri in Delhi : 0113747483 conatacts on Linux-india site as coordinators Indranil Das Gupta :indradg@cal.vsnl.net.in Darshan Shah :darshan_shah@vsnl.com cheers S.Goswami ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:35:21 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:05:21 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] Korea Govt. Supports Linux Message-ID: Free Software in Korea: Part One -- The Microsoft Connection (Oct 4th, 06:05:46 ) By Randy Leganza, Special Korea Correspondent for Linux Today When Dwight Johnson of Linux Today asked in late July if I'd consider a doing an article on Linux in Korea, I had no idea the amount of time or the countless e-mails it would require. Even though there had been several recent stories in the Korean English press and the government's announced support for Linux in July, I grossly underestimated the "Linux in Korea" story. When the Korean government's Ministry of Information and Communication announced in late July that it would "provide government support for the development and proliferation of Linux," it was not only one of the first official endorsements by a national government of the free operating system but one of the largest defeats ever for Microsoft. To appreciate the Microsoft connection to the Korean government's embracing Linux requires relating events extending over two years. In the end, despite its best efforts, Microsoft Korea would not only fail to dominate the local word processor market it had targeted, it would suspend its "campus license" program and see its president suddenly resign. These days hardly a week goes by without Microsoft's local ventures being mentioned in the English language Korean dailies. But Microsoft's interest in Korea extends back at least 15 years with a partnership agreement in 1984 and a branch office opening in 1992. Over the years, Microsoft developed relationships with numerous Korean companies. Bill Gates has traveled to Korea several times. In 1994 Gates traveled to Korea to sign a source code licensing agreement with the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST). Then in June 1997 he traveled to Korea again to address the CIO Forum, a support group for Korea's CIOs organized by the Federation of Korean Information Industries. Microsoft's trouble with the Korean government first began to surface in October 1997 when the Korean Fair Trade Commission announced an investigation into Microsoft's business practices. This investigation mirrored that of the U.S. Department of Justice. (No resolution of this investigation has yet been seen in the local English language press.) While Korea was struggling in May 1998 to recover from its worst financial crisis in history, Steve Ballmer, then a Microsoft vice president, announced a $77 million software donation to Korean schools and institutions. Although Microsoft's gift was graciously accepted, some thought it mostly an attempt to get Korean students on the Microsoft gravy train. When queried at the time about making an investment comparable to those made by Hewlett-Packard and Intel, Ballmer reportedly said, "We think that an investment in knowledge is more important than any factory." Little did Korea know then what was up Ballmer's sleeve, nor did Ballmer then suspect that Microsoft would end up with egg on its face. At the time of Ballmer's announcement, the maker of the country's only indigenous word processor, Hangul and Computer Company (H & C), was nearly bankrupt because of the bootleg software market for its product, Hangul. Microsoft negotiated a bailout plan for the ailing company -- in exchange for a Microsoft investment, H & C announced it would cease development of the Hangul word processor and end support for it a year later. Only a month after Ballmer's announcement of the software gift, the deal was scheduled to be closed when, according to the plan, Bill Gates would fly in for a two day promotional tour. But as soon as it was announced, there was an immediate public outcry and the deal ran afoul of both the Korean populace and the Korean Fair Trade Commission. Suddenly Koreans saw Microsoft's offer for what it was -- an attempt to monopolize the local word processor market. They took it as an assault on their national pride, a sort of "cultural colonization". The Koreans had more than just their ire for Microsoft's business tactics on their side. The indigenous Hangul word processor could correctly display more than 11,000 combinations of the Korean language's phonetic characters, as contrasted with Microsoft Word's 2,500. And the Korean word processor could display western fonts as well. Bill Gates still flew in but left empty handed after a meeting with the Korean President. A grass roots fund raising campaign quickly began to revive H & C. The Korean Venture Business Association (KVBA) offered $7.3 million to save the company. Approximately two thirds of the investment would come from association members, and the remaining one third would come from contributions by Korean individuals. The company accepted the KVBA offer, wisely created a limited license version with a slashed price to encourage paying customers and called for the Korean government, itself a flagrant violator, to began a campaign against bootleg software. H & C survived and in September 1998 announced its plan to raise $7.3 million dollars in a public stock offering. Facing mounting opposition, but not to be out done, Microsoft continued with its aggressive drive to inundate Korean educational institutions with artificially cheap software. In August 1998, Microsoft released a Korean version of Windows 98 to an eager, but often disappointed, public and reported 27,000 copies sold within only the first four days, a figure comparable to Windows 95's sales. Although Microsoft had not been able to buy out its chief word processing Korean competitor, its marketing machine was undaunted. It vowed to improve the Korean Microsoft Word's ability to display the older Korean characters and began to hype its Korean Microsoft Word 2000 in January 1999. But Microsoft made a disastrous marketing miscalculation. While the schools and universities were getting bargain basement discounts to entice students onto the Microsoft gravy train, individual software buyers were still paying full price. In early 1999, local software resellers, squeezed mercilessly from both sides, denounced Microsoft's pricing strategy. The Korean retail marketplace is still mostly a mom and pop operation. These small chains and individual stores could not turn enough volume to warrant the large discounts that retail giants and OEMs obtain. In addition, these resellers were the target of a crackdown on bootleg software. They objected to Microsoft's alleged entrapment of bootleg resellers, a charge denied by Microsoft. The resellers went so far as to hold a rally to protest Microsoft's pricing policy. Then in mid May, the Korea Times published the results of a survey which reported that "87.2 percent said the Windows operating system is ``unsatisfactory'' but that they have no choice but to use it." The May 1999 resellers anti-Microsoft protest was accented when Hangul and Computer charged that Microsoft was "dumping," selling its wares at 10% of its market price. To this accusation, Microsoft responded (according to the Korea Herald), "We introduced the site license program, in which we sell our software package at cheap prices, to the Korean market to help spread the use of genuine software products among students." Microsoft also countered that H & C was guilty of its own accusations because they had slashed their price to less than $10 for their one year license version. The government said it would investigate. Microsoft finally relented and withdrew its "campus license" policy pending a final decision by the Korean government. Microsoft Korea had now suffered its second setback in its drive to dominate the Korean word processor market. Amidst all this negative attention, in June 1999, Microsoft released its Korean Microsoft Office 2000. As an answer to H & C's discounted one year license version of Hangul, Microsoft offered the Korean Microsoft Word 2000 with an annual subscription option of under $10. A Korea Herald article claimed it could now process 11,172 Korean syllables, 1.6 million old Korean characters and 27,000 Chinese characters. Meanwhile, the Korean government continued its crackdown on bootleg software. Even though government agencies were as guilty as everyone else, the crackdown on bootleg software was hurting Korea's schools far more than the government. Many schools were forced to suspend computer classes because they could not afford the software license fees. The Korean government was under pressure from all sides. Consumers and resellers complained that Microsoft's products were too expensive and that there was no alternative to Windows. The software industry wanted its license fees -- yet this unbudgeted expense was a monstrous burden on both small business and the educational system. Koreans wanted Hangul and Computer to survive -- yet they didn't want to appear anti-Microsoft and alienate another foreign business when their economy badly needed foreign investment. The logical alternative seemed to be software without burdensome license fees -- enter Linux! In July 1999, the very same day the Korean Ministry of Information and Communication announced it had formed a group to discuss support for Linux, the JoongAng Ilbo reported Microsoft Korea's President Kim Jae-min had abruptly resigned. Microsoft said the resignation was voluntary but some believed that he was held responsible for Microsoft Korea's failures over the past year. The government soon confirmed its support for Linux saying it would promote its use in public organizations. Ironically, hard on the heals of this announcement came the release of a Federation of Korean Industries' survey picking Microsoft as the number one business role model, followed by General Electric and Ford. Was it merely a coincidence that Microsoft Korea's president resigned at the same time the government announced its interest in Linux? No one is saying. Regardless of the government's motivation for supporting Linux, the support is there. Linux and Free Software in Korea is on the move. ----------------------------------- Free Software in Korea: Part Two -- The Linux Side (Conclusion) Oct 10, 1999, 07:15 UTC By Randy Leganza, Special Korea Correspondent for Linux Today Korean Government Support for Linux A most promising development for the free software movement in Korea is the government's Ministry of Information and Communication announcement in late July that it will "provide government support for the development and proliferation of Linux." The Korea Herald, among others, reported that the ministry "will establish a Linux consultative body composed of software experts from the government, academic and industry sectors to standardize Korean versions of Linux and develop a variety of programs based on the operating system." At the forefront of the Korean government's support for Linux is the Electronics and Telecommunications Research Institute (ETRI). According to Kim Hae-jin (family names are first in Korean), who is heading the ETRI Linux project, ETRI's plan is to "provide a highly scalable, highly available, single system server image cluster [technology]... adaptable from Internet [servers] to [the] mission critical enterprise." A non-profit organization called the "Linux Council" has been established. Four committees within the Council have been designated: 1. Standardization -- standardize Linux's Hangul terminology and documentation. 2. R & D -- promote research in and development of Linux software. 3. Supply and Support -- support Linux in end-user markets, schools and government offices. 4. Education and Training -- promote Linux education and training. Kim adds that they will also sponsor more Linux forums like a recent one held in July 1999, which was attended by Linux International's John "maddog" Hall. A Long History of Free Software Use Korea has been involved with the free software movement for over twelve years. An obscure reference on the GNU web site reveals that in April of 1987, Richard Stallman visited the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST) in Taejon. More recently, in May of this year, Tim Ney of the Free Software Foundation visited Korea with a Massachusetts Software Delegation and "met with a number of young software start-up companies..." According to Tim, "many of the companies [he] saw were predominantly writing software for the Windows platform, yet responded quite positively when [he] spoke about free software and opportunities with GNU/Linux." Free Software Projects Ongoing free software projects in Korea include: * Hanterm 3.1 from the KAIST, a Korean language (Hangul) xterm * OpenHWP, reported to be an almost defunct Korean free word-processor * And a team of at least four package maintainers contribute to the Korean Debian Project. The Korean Debian project has members from both the academic and business communities. Park Chu-yeon, current leader of the project, is working on the Korean Debian Bible with other project members. They maintain nearly 50 Korean Debian packages. Linux is not the only project associated with the free software movement in Korea. FreeBSD also has a following. Choi Jun-ho is the leader of both the Korea FreeBSD Users Group and the GNU Free Translation Project. Choi reports that he first used GNU/Linux in 1993, then moved to FreeBSD in 1995. Korean Companies That Market Linux Products WebDataBank Choi is developing a unique Linux distribution, qLinux, at his company, WebDataBank. According to Choi Jun-ho, qLinux will be bootable from a large ext2 file image on an existing Windows FAT partition via a loop-back device. He says qLinux will also be able to "utilize" the Windows Registry to configure X Windows, network cards, etc. WebDataBank is in the Linux Internet server hosting and groupware development business. They will soon release a Korean version of TurboLinux 4.0. MIZI Research Another Korean company, MIZI Research markets MiziOS, its own Linux version and HWPX-R4, a Linux/Unix Hangul word processor that is a close cousin to Hangul and Computers (H & C) Hangul Windows version (Hangul means the "Korean written language"). MIZI's head, Seo Young-jin, was the UNIX HWPX-R4 team leader at H & C before H & C decided to drop the UNIX version in 1997 and focus on their Windows version. Seo then licensed HWPX-R4's source code and started MIZI. Microsoft's subsequent failed attempt to shut the H & C Hangul word processor out of the Korean market was a pivotal event in the rise of free software in Korea. See Free Software in Korea: Part One -- The Microsoft Connection. HWPX-R4 is included on the MiziOS CDs, as either a demo version or an official bundle. MIZI also supports the Free Software movement with: * ManIM, which enables Hangul fonts in Netscape on X * a Hangul font server * some document viewers that will soon fall under the GPL * four Korean TrueType fonts under the BSD license MIZI's decision whether to publish under the GPL or a commercial license is level-of-effort based. According to Seo Young-jin, "Some software is attractive and fun and others [requires] endless maintenance. The latter [we license] commercial." Under commercial licensing, MIZI is currently working on an architectural CAD application that will be available in Hangul and English. Seo said that he hoped to "shareware" the English version, explaining that part of the code was licensed from another company and MIZI needed to recover the cost. Zion Systems Zion Systems develops Accel, a Korean distribution based on Red Hat. In developing Accel, Zion Systems uses the latest kernel version and libraries, builds their packages optimized for Pentiums and is working on a Korean GUI installation package. In partnership with Samsung, Zion Systems markets a line of high availability Alpha and Xeon SMP servers that can support clustering and further plans to market a sub $1,000 Linux PC in October. Currently Zion is working on GPLing their audio drivers and high availability management software. Zion is also setting up an "after service" center for its product line. 3R Soft 3R Soft produces MailStudio, a Linux/Unix Web-based e-mail server. MailStudio's user interface runs inside the Web browser, like Netscape and Yahoo's mail servers. MailStudio is compatible with Sendmail, SMTP, POP, and qPopper. In their upcoming 3.0 version, 3R Soft plans to offer IMAP, LDAP, and spell checking support. While 3R Soft does not produce any GPL software, they are compatible with Red Hat, Caldera, TurboLinux and Apache. Other Korean Linux Companies At least three other Korean companies produce seperate Korean versions of Linux: * Linux Korea markets the Power Linux distribution and the Netspirit 2000 and 3000 Linux-based servers. * Korea Linux sells the Alzaa Korean version of Red Hat. * ClassData offers the Class 6.0 Enterprise Linux distribution, which has an interesting glass bottle logo and the catchy slogan, "stop paying your Bills." In addition, Informix Korea has a series of Korean pages devoted to Linux, including links to downloads. Linux Use Growing Rapidly According to Denis Havlik: "I have been witnessing an enormous growth of "registered Linux users" in Korea for quite some time. (Take a look at "the Linux Counter", under "Denis Havlik's report"...) The growth is not so dramatic any more, but still rather fast: 156% annually." "Registered users" probably account for less than 1% of the Linux user base(*) -- currently there are more than 3,000 registered users. Therefore, my estimate is "more than 300,000 Linux users in South Korea" today. Greater than 500,000 would not surprise me, either." The Fight for the Linux Trademark Sadly, all the positive news about Linux in Korea is not without its controversy. The last week of August, a fight broke out over the Linux trademark, when a lawyer for Kwon Yong-tae, who holds a Korean trademark for 'Linux', demanded that the Kyobo Books bookstore stop selling books with Linux in the title. Three days later, the incident became a hot topic on Korea's popular Linux bulletin board and it made the English Linux news sites the following weekend. Allegedly, the trademark was applied for in 1995 and granted in 1997. Korean publishers, business and other interested parties are still working to resolve the issue. For those interested, Lee Kyong-ho is maintaining an event time line at the bottom of his Web page on the problem, with a link to an English version of a petition. --------- Randy lives in Taegu, Korea and is on his third, most fun and least stressful career. He's the QA/Test guy on a small team supporting a large Solaris WAN integration project, with a few Linux boxes scattered about. He gets to play with computers all day and intentionally break them -- then complain about it, and usually see things get fixed. When he can, he likes to fly airplanes, lift weights, hunt and fish. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:50:38 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 15:20:38 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> Raju Mathur wrote: > > We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom proponents > in India are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans I suggest avoiding the term Open Source, and use only the other two. Because, you see, it sends out wrong impressions outside. If a press release based on this letter comes out, FSF-India will be termed as a group Open Source proponents. Of course, the rest of the document is brilliantly drafted. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 08:05:47 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:35:47 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt (FaX Numbers of WB officials)Urgent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3081.192.168.0.4.997085147.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 at 10:15, Satish Babu wrote: > > > In the first place, I should thank Raju for coming out with a > powerful letter. > > I believe that there should be a local group who can take up > this issue and lobby the government. Are we aware of any > individual or groups in WB who can highlight the dangers of > this tie-up? Can we operate through local NGOs? After working > in NGOs for long, I think NGOs can be powerful allies in this > struggle. > > This seems to be a viable method in the local level to put pressure on the > WB government. > > I also think that FSF-India should be prepared, with > appropriate tools (at the very least, a dossier of documents > that explain our position, and quoting examples of governments > of other provinces and countries) to respond to such > situations at short notice. > > Exactly. > > Raju's letter is powerfully drafted. I wonder if such a letter > should be sent by snail-mail or e-mail? Would clogging up the > CM's mailbox brand us as cyber terrorists? > > Why not we have a web page for all those interested to sign? We > shall keep the page for a period of one week or ten days and > propagate the news to all the mailing lists inviting people to sign the > document. > > After the specified period, we can submit a mass memorandum to the WB > government. In the meantime, FSF Board can work out the dossier of > documents. Well we can Fax the letter signed by FSF india board Members to the higher officials immedialtely. Buddhadev Bhattacharya (Chief Minister): 0332215480 Mr Sitaram Yechuri in Delhi : 0113747483 conatacts on Linux-india site as coordinators Indranil Das Gupta :indradg@cal.vsnl.net.in Darshan Shah :darshan_shah@vsnl.com cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:32:50 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:02:50 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] Linux in Education Message-ID: Troubleshooters.Com Presents Troubleshooting Professional Magazine Volume 3, Issue 4, April 1999 The Education Revolution Copyright (C) 1999 by Steve Litt. _________________________________________________________________ Editors Desk What a difference a decade makes. In April 1989 the 386 chip was three years old, and was just getting to a price point affordable for individual computer users. 286 technology had been around for seven years, and you could still buy a new 286 computer. And if you used a PC compatible, you had DOS. Sure, it was version 5, but it was almost identical to the DOS 3.1 you'd used in 1984. PC Programmers used teen-age C or the baby on the block, five year old Dbase III. You could take a year or two to learn a computer language, and spend a year or two writing the program. You had to be a genius to access the internet, and even then you still had to be at a major university or the military. And unless you were trying to reproduce Robert Morris' Internet Worm virus that had appeared the year before, why would you even want to get on the internet? And so we continued on our leisurely path, oblivious to the wildly accelerating technological changes the 90's would bring. Now technologies come and go in two years. Time to market has shrunk to months or weeks. The successful companies and technologists have shrunk their learning times to days or weeks. College and trade school don't cut it. Even those week long training courses can't do the job. New learning methods are needed. Luckily, free software, the Internet, and the documentation of the Rapid Learning process allow us to keep up. This issue of Troubleshooting Professional Magazine is devoted to the Education Revolution. We've even given the articles political names. After all, learning is the most vital component of our careers, and ultimately our corporations and our nations. So kick back and relax as you read this issue. And remember, if you're a Troubleshooter, this is your magazine. Enjoy! Rapid Learning: A Key to Universal Education If you hang out with leading edge technologists long enough, you see they all use similar learning techniques. They use the 'net, trade mags and their acquaintences to learn the terminology and its definitions. Armed with that, they achieve a theoretical understanding. They then do incremental/differential learning, often using free software (free as in speech) to verify their understanding and learn more. All of this is done within the context of their work, not separate from it. They've mastered the technology long before their co-workers have gotten clearance to take the course. They make the big bucks. I'm trying very hard to document this process, which I've dubbed Rapid Learning. I'm ten percent done with my new book, "Rapid Learning: Secret Weapon of the Successful Technologist". It looks like it will weigh in at 42 chapters and a little over 200 pages. I hope to have it available for sale in about a month, assuming more pressing projects don't interfere. Using Rapid Learning, a technologist can learn new technologies quicker, cheaper, and easier than their counterparts taking training, trade school, or college. Rapid Learning has been used for decades, but the advent of the Internet as a research tool and free software for setting up a kitchen table lab have supercharged Rapid Learning's advantages. The de-facto class restrictions on technical education are crumbling. Steve Litt is the author of the upcoming book "Rapid Learning: Secret Weapon of the Successful Technologist". Power to the People Some cynical days I wonder if this whole thing is just class warfare. "Buffy, we simply cannot allow these lower classes to program. They work so cheap the profession will be ruined". "Precisely, Skip. We must make sure the lower classes have no contact with programming. Expensive compilers, expensive computers, and just in case some rif-raf gets his hands on one, we'll require a $100,000.00 college education, and make sure a computer training lab costs six figures. Remember your first computer lab? The minicomputer cost nearly a hundred thousand, with each terminal $500. Or, if it was later, maybe an $8000.00 PC server with a $4000.00 NOS (Netware) and each workstation costing $2000.00. But that wasn't the big thing. The big thing was the software. Compilers were probably $100.00 to $500.00 per seat. And the big-iron compilers like Cobol -- if you have to ask you can't afford it. And remember the cost of the DBMS? That was sure to keep the small entrapeneur out of the game. Any way you looked at it, setting up a computer lab would set you back over $60,000.00 -- probably much more. If there are such a Buffy and Skip, they're certainly tearing their hair out today. Anyone with a spare two hundred square feet can set up a respectable computer lab for less than a good used car -- maybe a lot less. Let's start with buying everything new: Item Nos. Unit Price Total Cost Server OS 1 $49.00 $50.00 Desktop OS 1 $49.00 $50.00 Server 1 $2000.00 $2000.00 Client PCs 15 $600.00 $9000.00 8 port Hubs 2 $200.00 $400.00 Network Cabling n/a home made $100.00 Server Software: DNS, Sendmail, Proxy Server, FTP Server, Web Server, Print Server, .... 0.0 0.0 Educational Software: (GNU) C compiler 15 0.0 0.0 (GNU) C++ compiler 15 0.0 0.0 Perl Interpreter 15 0.0 0.0 Python Interpreter 15 0.0 0.0 Tcl/TK Interpreter 15 0.0 0.0 Java 15 0.0 0.0 (PostgreSQL) DBMS 15 0.0 0.0 (DBI) Middleware 15 0.0 0.0 (PHP) Web App RAD 15 0.0 0.0 Web Authoring Tool 15 0.0 0.0 (GIMP) Graphics SW 15 0.0 0.0 Web Browser 15 0.0 0.0 Text Editors 15 0.0 0.0 (Pine) Email Read 15 0.0 0.0 So that's it. For $11,600.00 anybody can set up a 15 workstation computer lab. But wait. There's more. If 15 people decide to set up the lab for themselves, and each brings an old, Linux GUI capable computer (low grade Pentium with 32Meg of ram, 1 gig disk), and one person contributes a server (low grade Pentium, 32 meg of ram, 6.4 Gig drive), the cost goes down to $600.00. That's not each, mind you. That's divided among the fifteen. That's right, $40.00 each. What do they get for the money? Here are the classes that can be offered: Programming 101: Algorithms (Python) Programming 102: OOP (Python) Intro to C Intermediate C Advanced C OS Programming in C Driver Writing in C Linux Internals in C TCP/IP Programming in C Basic Network Configuration Intermediate Network Configuration Network Design and Architecture Network Troubleshooting DNS Configuration Web Host Configuration Email Server Configuration Advanced Webmastering Intro to C++ Intermediate C++ Advanced C++ Web Design (Netscape Composer, GIMP) Advanced Web Graphics (GIMP) Intro to Web Programming (Perl) Web Forms Programming (Perl) Database Web Programming (Perl, PHP, PostgreSQL) Programming for Electronic Commerce (Perl, PHP, PostgreSQL) So just in case it isn't clear, fifteen people without money for college can get together, pony up a PC each and less than $50.00 each, $2.00 each per month for an internet connection (which they can share simultaneously real-time via Linux IP-masquerading). For that tiny investment they'll gain theoretical and hands-on mastery of C, C++, Web authoring, Web applications, Web database applications, Electronic Commerce, network administration, network troubleshooting, network architecture, webmastering. Who will teach the classes? Using Rapid Learning techniques, they can teach themselves. Then pass on the information in the form of Rapid Teaching tutorials. Those original 15 can charge ten percent of university prices, and recoup their investment in a year. They can expand and teach thousands of folks unable to afford a college education. Buffy and Skip, like it or not you have some serious competition. Viva La Revolucion Nowhere is the education revolution stronger than in Mexico. Their Scholar Net program is installing a nationwide network of computer labs using free software including Linux and Gnome. Over the next few years, they will be installing 140,000 computer labs (not computers -- labs) at a rate of 20-35,000 per year. These students will have all the advantages enumerated in the previous article. If this sounds unbelievable, I've reprinted the words of the Scholar Net project head, Arturo Espinosa Aldama. From the Horse's Mouth ============================ >From arturo@estadistica.unam.mx Thu Oct 29 21:46:11 1998 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:54:25 -0600 (CST) From: Arturo Espinosa Aldama To: gnome-list@gnome.org, gnome-hackers@gnome.org Subject: Mexico's Educative System Goes for GNU/Linux + GNOME Greetings, beloved GNOME users and developers. I work as the project leader of the "Scholar Net", a program that aims to bring computers and the net to every elementary and mid-level school in Mexico. We expect to install from 20 to 35 thousand labs per year to a total of 140,000 centers in the next five years. Due to matters of cost, reliability and configurability, we plan to use GNU/Linux to replace the proprietary server options and, now thanks to GNOME, the proprietary desktop application options. We will develop GNOME to a point where we can get a useful and friendly enough desktop for the elementary and high school student. There are some aspects of GNOME, such as uniformity, Spanish translation, bug fixing and application development which we will address to achieve this. At an average of 20 users per machine, and being all of them school children and teachers, GNU/Linux will become, at the long term, a major influence in Mexico. In the short term, GNOME will get an additional impulse from us and those who will contribute following our guidelines, and GNU/Linux will prove to be a real-world option for the end user. For further information and details on the Scholar Net and, specially for GNOME developers, on how to contribute to GNOME for us to arrive to deployment stage, please contact Arturo Espinosa . Arturo Espinosa Aldama Project Leader Academic Services Coordination National Autonomous University of Mexico The text above may be copied in any way provided that it stays with this paragraph and unmodified. ============================= Note: The original source URL of this document is contained in the URL's section of this magazine. My Fellow Americans My fellow Americans, we're in another race every bit as vital as the space race of the 1960's. Once again it's time to get moving. The race is no longer to the moon, but instead to technological dominance. Our competitor is no longer the Soviet Union, but instead every nation on earth. The threat is no longer nuclear obliteration, but technological and economic obliteration. Our neighbors to the south are attacking this challenge head on. Mexico is installing 140,000 computer labs using the best (but not the most expensive) technology available. Soon they will field a fleet of millions of superiorly trained technologists. Mexico has taken a page from America's pioneering spirit. Free thinking, they went with the right choice, not the politically expediant one. They worked to get results. They stood up for their children. Contrast this with America's response. We hesitate over lab installation because it's too "expensive". Expensive because we pay per-seat licenses. Expensive because Windows desktops requires more expensive hardware. Expensive because NT Server is *fabulously* expensive. Expensive because Windows requires constant attention to keep running. Our children languish while Microsoft stockholders get rich. My fellow Americans, the choice is ours. We can change course to the better plan instituted by Mexico, continuing our leadership position well into the next century. Or we can remain in our present comfort zone, making Microsoft stockholders rich while our children receive inferior educations and our nation's technological leadership fades. I ask you to follow Mexico's lead. Stand up for our children. Stand up for our nation. Use free software in our schools. Fellow Americans, my critics will tell you there will always be work for Americans who want to work. They are absolutely correct. The question before us today is whether that work will be charting the worlds technological course, rather than serving at resorts, hotels, gas stations and restaraunts, hoping we'll be tipped in Pesos. Richard Stallman, Architect of the Revolution In 1984 Richard Stallman wrote the GNU Manifesto, which advocated free software, specifically a free UNIX workalike. In the Manifesto, Stallman prophetically described the process of getting this to happen, including ideas in licensing (must pass on source and all rights to the receiver, etc). In 1991 he copyrighted the GNU General Public License (otherwise known as GPL). That license provided a framework allowing a developer to guarantee that his work would never be co-opted or subverted by an unscrupulous corporation. Software authors began to license their software using GPL. It worked. Linus Torvalds and his crew wrote the Linux kernal, combined it with many of the already developed GNU utilities, to come up with the GNU/Linux operating system, which was absolutely free to anyone. Other software followed. Others started licensing software under non-GPL licenses that nevertheless guaranteed source availability, ability to modify, and passing on of rights. Others had licenses that didn't do all that, but managed to make the product free and standard. And now you can get, absolutely free of charge, the GNU/Linux OS, Netscape browser and authoring tool, GIMP graphic software, Apache web server, sendmail email server, GNU C and C++ compilers, Python, Perl and Tcl interpreters, Java, and several editors. Or, if you don't want to download them, you can purchase them for as little as $1.99 plus shipping. Much of the Internet runs off these free tools, especially Apache. And the web can replace any 30 technical textbooks, and it's always up to date. This has cut the cost of setting up a computer lab or computer school by a factor of 10 or more. Once only the upper middle and upper classes could get an excellent computer education. Now almost anyone can do it. Richard Stallman: hero or rabble rouser? I guess the answer depends on whether you're a normal working person, or the president of an expensive and elite university. Linux Log: The Redmond Tea Party (Linux Log is now a regular column in Troubleshooting Professional Magazine. Each month we'll explore a facet of Linux as it relates to that month's theme). Few grudge anyone the right to make an honest living. I haven't heard one person question the cost of (Borland) Turbo Pascal or Turbo C. Few objected to the price of the DOS or Windows operating systems. There were some problems with Mac pricing, but those wanting a cheaper product simply bought one. Trouble is, sooner or later certain commercial outfits get greedy. I don't know whether they forgot history and then repeated it, or whether they felt the lessons learned didn't apply. But these commercial outfits (and it wasn't just Microsoft) gouged us blind. The insane prices and even crazier licensing provisions erected an entry barrier few could penetrate. So we went elsewhere. To Linux, to free software in general. And we found it to be better. So we snuck in the corporate back door with superior free software systems, and got free software on the corporate agenda. It's humorous that now the commercial biggies find themselves subject the the same type of FUD they used to dish out. "I'm not buying the Microsoft product -- a superior free software product is expected any time now". The Mexican government is building a nationwide computer lab network using Linux and Gnome. It hasn't happened yet in the US, but it will. Throngs march on Redmond to dump not tea but Windows, not into Boston Harbor but into the Microsoft campus. I predict that Windows 2000 will fail miserably, as the masses shift to the technically superior, and probably by that time more user friendly, Linux. The other gouge and grab software outfits will get theirs soon after. Let's hope Caldera, Slackware, SuSe, Pacific HiTech (TurboLinux), Red Hat, Star, Corel and Applix learn from their predecessors' mistakes. URLs Mentioned in this Issue * http://www.troubleshooters.com: Steve Litt's website, Troubleshooters.Com. * http://www.troubleshooters.com/umenu: The website for the Universal Menu System Open Source Project * http://www.troubleshooters.com/umenu/download/index.htm: The download site for the (free, Open Source) Universal Menu System (this version works only on Linux, but upcoming versions will work with Windows and with UNIX). * http://luthien.nuclecu.unam.mx/~arturo/scholar/: Mexico's Scholar Net program, an installation of 140,000 computer labs throughout Mexico. * http://www.gnu.org/people/rms.html: Richard Stallman's home page. * http://www.calderasystems.com: Caldera's OpenLinux home page. * http://www.suse.com: SuSe Linux distro home page. * http://www.Slackware.com: Official home of the Slackware Linux project. * http://www.turbolinux.com: Website of Pacific HiTech, makers of the TurboLinux distro. * http://www.redhat.com: Home of Red Hat Software, makers of the Red Hat Linux distro. * http://linux.corel.com/: Corel's Linux product website. * http://www.applix.com/appware/linux/index.htm: Applixware for Linux. * http://www.microsoft.com: The guys who make Windows NT, a very nice server OS that would be as good as Linux if it was faster and more reliable. ========================================================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:37:07 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:07:07 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] Open Source in China Message-ID: A new IT website, www.oso.com.cn, was launched to proliferate the adoption of Open-Source in China Oct 19th, 2000 08:24 UTC OSO offers industry outlooks, lectures, source codes, program downloads and forums to members at all levels of computer literacy. Many forums and language-specific, especially PHP, websites regarding Open-Source pop up during the past year in China. A new and comprehensive website that focuses on Open-Source, Open Source Online (www.oso.com.cn), was launched recently in China to initiate, cultivate and provide a marketplace for Open-Source. Open Source Online (OSO), http://www.oso.com.cn, was launched to serve and promote Open-Source IT in China. OSO offers industry outlooks, lectures, source codes, program downloads and forums to members at all levels of computer literacy. In November, OSO will provide a free on-line computing environment and disk space for its member to learn all about Internet computing using Open-Source tools and own a subdomain name for real-time usage. OSO will eventually provide a commercial platform in China that leverages on the merits of Open-Source. For details, please visit: http://www.oso.com.cn From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 07:18:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Prakash Advani) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:48:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [LIG] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <01080612485801.00795@krishna> Dear Raju, This is execellent if everyone can send out this document to their respective state goverments. I hope modifications to the documents are allowed and encouraged GPL ? ;-) I would also recommend you add something about localisation issues. In case of Proprietory operating systems localisation is decided by the company only if they see $$$$ coming in not in the interest of the people. Where as in case of GNU/Linux anyone can add the Indian Language layer depending on the needs. In fact all the localisation efforts so far have been started with Goverments funds (CDAC/NCST). By putting their efforts GNU/Linux they funds would be better utilised. Regards Prakash On Sunday 05 August 2001 12:23, Raju Mathur wrote: > Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State government > which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I am making it as > general-purpose as possible so that more people are willing to sign > it: this is not a time for family squabbles. I'd appreciate any > additions/enhancements which can be made to this letter. URL's > highlighting the points discussed would also be a great idea. Not > being an activist, I cannot suggest the proper methods for getting > this letter signed and circulated to the right authorities. > From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:34:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:04:52 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] French Senators Ask Government to Support Open Source Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- French senators propose making open source compulsory Posted 24/10/99 2:47pm by John Lettice French senators Pierre Laffitte and Rene Tragout are proposing that national and local government and administrative systems should only use open source software. Arguing in favour of their proposed law number 495, they say ease of communication and free access by citizens to information can only be achieved if the administration is not dependent on the goodwill of the publishers of the software. "Open systems whose evolution can be guaranteed via the free availability of source code are needed," they say. The two senators have set up a discussion forum for the proposed law at the French Senate Web site, and put forward the text, and their own explanation of why the move is needed. They see the Internet as becoming the primary way for government and citizens to communicate, and propose a period of transition prior to a switchover to wholly electronic communications. According to Article 3 of law 495, "State administration, local government and administrative services... can only use software free of [IP] rights and whose source code is available. A decree will fix the terms of transition from the current situation." In addition, the senators see the switch to open source by the state as providing the engine to drive a far broader movement. Private companies dealing with the state, in bidding for contracts, for example, will tend to switch to open source to make it easier to do so electronically, while those who supply the state with computer systems will have to redouble their open source efforts. Impressively, neither Windows nor Linux is mentioned in their proposed law and its supporting documentation, but it's pretty clear what the effect will be if it passes. Time for another Bill Gates visit to Lionel Jospin and Jacques Chirac, we fear. We're not sure what law 495's chances are, but perhaps a French reader can help us out with some further information. And while they're about it, could they explain to us why it's only number 495? Whenever we've been in France we've got the impression that there are a hell of a lot more than just 494 laws. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:36:24 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:06:24 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] German Govt. Says Use Open Source Software Message-ID: After the UK, French, Korean, and Chinese governments, it is now the turn of the German government which has recommended the use of Open Source Software (OSS) for use in their offices. I hope you find this interesting reading. -- Raj ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ German Governmental Agency Says: Use Open Source An official team of the German Ministry of the Interior has released a statement which examines the possible use of Open Source software in the German administration. The statement concludes: "Linux and FreeBSD and accompanying Free or commercial software provide a stable, cheap, low-on-resources, safe and sufficiently supported environment even for professional offices." =============== Some Readers Comments ================ Of course they should use open source instead of commercial software since it's saving tax payer money and is ultimately more reliable (which means more efficient employees). I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you just forgot to put the smileys at the right places, but this undoubtedly there are some of us here that actually think this statement has any truth in it. The fact that one uses open or closed source software doesn't mean anything in itself when it comes to costs. True, with open source there is generally no fee that needs to be paid, but to see this as a major cost saver is incorrect. The costs in any IT-related project within organisations is generally not associated with software nor hardware, but with the amount of man-hours needed to complete the project. Espescially when specialist knowledge needs to be hired from third parties the costs are rising like the amount of Guinness in an Irishman on Saint Patricks day. After the roll-out of a project the cost is in the ease of use for the user and in the cost of keeping everything up and running. At the moment the cost of running open source based software on server(-like) configurations is probably tied with that of various closed source alternatives. It all depends on what you want, who you have working for you and what kind of other systems you use. The cost of open source on user-systems is probably still higher then that of various closed source alternatives. Most notably MS-Windows based products, but for some uses the Mac comes to mind. Even if one accounts for BSOD's and related stress issues, loss of working hours etc. A properly configured system is still a cheaper option then Open Source because the money for an organisation is in the applications and in the added value that a worker gets from those apps. Yup, it all boils down to apps again. Though i must say that in certain areas this gap could be bridged quite easily. Especially there where users are doing data entry, where all data goes to a large database (eg: call-centers), most screens are designed espescially for that database. With that in mind, new systems in this area could be as easily build to work with an open as a closed source environment. ---- It means that the German Federal offices can use Open Source products. So, if you work for the German Federal government, you can go ahead and use Open Source software now. ---- The German Goverment "Gets It" -- the use of open source helps in keeping certain cost down. Allows you to add extentions to the software you use. Also allows you to audit the software you are using at the source so there are no question about certain things. ---- Governments are composed of many, many, individuals; they perform many, many jobs. Some people in the German government have the job of recommending the ways in which technology, specifically computers, should be used within federal offices. These ones are recommending Open Source. You should have realised they're saying a lot more than: 'Use Linux/BSD 'cuz they're cheap!' As a matter of fact, they present a very detailed accounting of the advantages of OSS, including the key arguments of better security (through transparency) and freedom from control by any one corporation (never named, but in my opinion implied), as well as a detailed plan of how Linux and friends could be installed at all levels of the government. I don't know if this document carries any weight with the decision-makers, but it is a ringing endorsement of free software of all stripes. ---- Strange. I'm a German and I'm fascinated by the progress our government has made since it was elected in 1998. But now, I'll leave this great country because of monetary reasons (hi USA!). I'll certainly miss the open and liberal minds of our politicians. The old government was crying for more control of the Internet while the new one gives money to Open Source cryptology projects and even recommends the use of encrypted communication channels. ---- When I was a govt contractor, we were using the GNU tools and perl on several Department of Defense projects because the were the most portable around. Of course these were Unix based projects. Is anyone out there actively lobbying the government to officially endorse OSS solutions rather than proprietary software? It seems to me as a taxpayer that I would like to see the vast number of government projects out there actively evaluate Linux as well as Solaris and NT as platforms. Not only would they be getting a high quality, low cost platform, the code that the government contractors develop could be fed back into the community. The govt develops a considerable amount of software and while much of it is specific to its needs, there are other areas such as infrastructure where having an OSS solution makes sense. If they used OSS software as the basis of building their systems, it would prevent a lot of the reinventing of the wheel and proprietary lock-in that occurs now. ---- Alot of us are trying, believe me. Most of us have OSS snuck in the background but contributing none the less... The more "public" uses are seen at NASA with their Beowulf cluster and at NIST. There's a FOSE conference coming up next month and one of the seminar tracks includes a session on Linux. However I wish that more on OSS was scheduled to be discussed at this. The timing of FOSE is really good considering all that's going on right now, but seems no one in the D.C./MD/VA area appeared to push it for this year's conference... ---- Using open-source products is good government. In fact, I think it helps to mollify one of the real problems of most modern states. usually, when the government spends money on a project, only one group in the population benefits. Although this is often a large group, there are almost always some people who are left out. But with OSS, when the government works on a special program designed for one group, the whole community benefits, because the whole community gets free source. And more, since in the course of the project it's highly likely that the government-employed programmers will contribute patches, code, ideas, etc. to other projects. So, not only is OSS good for government, it also constitutes good government. =================================================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 11:36:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:06:30 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> Message-ID: <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org> Good idea. In fact, let's all create one version each of the letter (GPL enthusiasts, BSD License enthusiasts, Open Source enthusiasts, Electronic Freedom enthusiasts, etc); that way we'll be able to achieve much more. Even if we don't, it doesn't matter since, after all, what you /might/ get called by a misinformed press is more important than what you do, isn't it? Ever hear the term ``knee-jerk reaction''? *Disgusted* -- Raju >>>>> "RK" == Ramakrishnan M writes: RK> Raju Mathur wrote: >> We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom >> proponents in India are deeply distressed to learn about your >> Government's plans RK> I suggest avoiding the term Open Source, and use only the RK> other two. Because, you see, it sends out wrong impressions RK> outside. If a press release based on this letter comes out, RK> FSF-India will be termed as a group Open Source proponents. RK> Of course, the rest of the document is brilliantly drafted. RK> -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 RK> Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: RK> http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ RK> _______________________________________________ RK> http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 11:37:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:07:00 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] Argentina Govt. Discussing Free Software Law Message-ID: Free Software Law for Argentina There's presently (last week of April, 2001) a law being discussed at the Congress in Argentina, that would make mandatory the use of and migration to Free Software when possible within the government units. That law was originally proposed by a Congressmen, but he contacted people from the Free Software Community in Argentina (non-profit organizations, LUGs, etc.), and we have already suggested many changes that are making into the law. This is a translation of the law being discussed. It's already in discussion at the Argentina's congress, and moving on Note: all uses of the "free" word are for Spanish "libre", i.e, free as in free speech, not free beer. Policy for Free Software use for the Federal State Article 1: The National Public Administration, Decentralized Organizations and corporations where the State is a majoritary shareholder will only use free programs (software) for their IT systems and equipments. Article 2: "free program (software)", will be understood as software with a license of use that guarantees the user, without an extra fee, the following rights: 1. Non-restricted use of the program for any purpose 2. Exhaustive inspection of the internal program operation. 3. Use of the internal working, and of arbitrary segments of the program, to adaptate them to user needs 4. Production and distribution of copies of the program 5. Modification of the program, and free distribution of the modifications and the resulting new program, under these same conditions. Article 3: The source program of any free program must be the primary resource used by the programmer for modifying and inspecting it. Therefore, no program categorized as free can contain any restriction difficulting its access, or intermediate stages as output from a non-free pre-processor or compiler. Article 4: Licenses for free programs used by the National Public Administration, Decentralized Organizations, and corporations where the State is a majoritary shareholder, will have, in all cases, to allow explicitly modification and derived works, as well as non-restricted distribution of these works with the same license as the original program. Article 5: The Executive Power will set in a term of 180 days, the conditions, timelines, and ways to implement the transition from present systems to free programs as defined in Articles 1 to 4; and will move future licitations and contracting of computer programs (software) in that direction. Artice 6: From the date established by the Executive Power on, Public National Organizations mentioned in article 1 of this law, will not be allowed to use programs that store data in non-public format, or with licenses which: 1. Imply any form of discrimination to people or groups. 2. Don't fulfill of the preceding Article 2. 3. Are specific or exclusive for only one product. Article 7: Once finished the transition term, with a duration regulated by the National Executive Power as expressed in Article 5, there will be exclusively contracting and use of free computer programs. Article 8: The Public State Universities, the Provincial and the City Governments, and the Autonomous Government of the city of Buenos Aires are invited to adhere to this initiative. Article 9: Communicate this to the National Executive Power. ====================== Some Comments ======================= The financial savings are not the biggest benefit. I realize that there will be a huge price to pay in training and development, that could be similar to the cost of propietary licenses. But there are strong arguments for government use fo free software, like "National Security" (because the ability to guarantee no backdoors), "Technological independence" (remember that this is a 3rd world country, and propietary software involves depending on a foreign corporation), and "Control of information" (Citizens may be harmed when their public records are stored ("kidnapped") into propietary file formats). ---- This law is very well written - with good intent behind it. This law basically states that if the government or government owned institutions are to use software, it must be examinable by the people of that country. What a wonderful idea - one that most Americans are familiar with. We are allowed to observe almost all areas of government, comment upon it, and change it as needed. I'm glad that at least some governments realize that this should apply to software as well. ---- Laws that require the use of Free Software are about as inspiring as laws that require the use of Windows 2000. IMHO, this doesn't seem to be an appropriate use of government. Choose the best software for the task, and may the best software win in the marketplace. ---- This law as written is beautiful. It's a simple, to the point, expression of the will of the legislature that the government convert to open software wherever possible, as rapidly as is convenient. In my opinion, any changes are more likely to break it than improve it. I'd be inclined to leave it just as it is for now. A rule of thumb for any system design - government law or software - is to see what would happen if a deliberate attempt to misconstrue or circumvent its intent were made by the operator or outside parties. (The only operational difference between malice and mistake is that malice usually exercises the bugs and crashes the system a little sooner - so you look for system flaws as if you were looking for a way someone could deliberately break things, without implying that malice is actually present even if the system does crash later.) The only potential hole I see is that the timetable is left open. So if both a division head and the chief executive were opposed, or if the chief executive didn't push subordinates who dragged their feet, the timetable could slip out indefinitely. But it's appropriate to leave the timetable to the executive, rather than to try to micro-manage from the legislature. Execution is the executive's job. And I'd bet the chief executive is also in favor of this, or at least willing to go along with the will of the legislature. So I'd leave it as it is for now and revisit it in a few years to see how the conversion is coming. If you're really concerned that something might fall through the cracks you might have the executive branch report every few years on the progress of the conversion, including a list of what hasn't been converted and why. After five or ten years if there's anything unconverted that the legislature hasn't been convinced SHOULDN'T be converted, then it might want to make changes to the law to give them a push. And I'd leave military systems up to the executive branch. Which I expect will insist on having source code for everything they commission, and on reverse-engineering any turnkey weapons systems they got from their allies. ---- In order to maintain an open and free government, the people must be able to understand all governmental processes (including limitations with their computers). It is not safe for any government to run software which it does not know how it operates... being able to review the source code and compile it yourself ensures security. Also, since the government pays for all software with tax money, why shouldn't the people have access to that software? If I pay for the government to use software on its computers... I want access to that software I paid for. Society has it embedded into its mind that "Corporations are always good, they always have the best interests of the market in mind" when that is not true. They instead have the best interests of their wallet in mind. Software companies do take bribes to modify software to suit certain people's needs... I would not doubt that the NSA has never paid MS for certain code changes to Windows that make spying easier. ---- As a law that would force only the government to use Free Software, which would give the government and the people full knowledge of the workings of important government software, I think it is very reasonable. ---- Calling this a "law" is technically accurate, but misleading. To the layperson, the word "law" implies a regulation that affects private citizens, which this isn't. Really, it's just an internal government policy decision, stating that the government will use free software whenever possible (assuming it gets passed, of course). It doesn't regulate what individuals and private companies can do. ---- Think about it: most of the countries in the world produce their own weapons: they don't want to depend on others. The same starts to come true about software, as it's importance in running the government/military is understood. ====================================================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 07:19:26 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:49:26 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: References: <01080610152800.11300@athena> Message-ID: <15214.17662.822934.812755@mail.linux-delhi.org> Hi CVR, Once the letter has been re- and re-re-drafted, I'd be glad to put it up on my host (kandalaya.org) for signatories along with fsf.org.in. Please don't take offence, but many people in the Open Source movement are not keen on GNU and Free Software. We need the support of these people too if we want to have one potent movement rather than multiple, small, ineffective ones. Keeping this in mind, it's my opinion that it'd be a good idea to display the letter on a ``license-neutral'' site in addition to the FSF India site. Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "CVR" == Radhakrishnan CV writes: CVR> [snip] CVR> Why not we have a web page for all those interested to sign? CVR> We shall keep the page for a period of one week or ten days CVR> and propagate the news to all the mailing lists inviting CVR> people to sign the document. CVR> After the specified period, we can submit a mass memorandum CVR> to the WB government. In the meantime, FSF Board can work out CVR> the dossier of documents. CVR> Any thoughts? CVR> -- Radhakrishnan -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:28:29 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:58:29 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] US PITAC Recos Message-ID: PITAC: U.S. Government Should Foster Development of Open Source/Free Software By Tony Stanco, Sep 14, 2000, 20 :44 UTC Earlier this week the President's Information Technology Advisory Committee (PITAC) issued its "Recommendations of the Panel on Open Source Software For High End Computing." This is a very important event for Free/Open Source software, because it signals that the U.S. Federal government is finally ready to invest heavily in free software. This, along with the interest shown by the governments of China, Japan, Brazil and France to move away from proprietary software for national security reasons, goes a long way to legitimize free/open software development worldwide (as if that was an issue any more). Still, the thought that the U.S. Federal government is considering pumping potentially billions of dollars into free software has to count for something. The cover letter to the report says that PITAC "believes the open source development model represents a viable strategy for producing high quality software." A promising start. The committee was charged with: * 1. Charting a vision of how the Federal government can support the developing Open Source software activities for high-end computing; * 2. Defining a policy framework for accomplishing these goals; * 3. Identifying policy, legal, and administrative barriers to the widespread adoption of open source software efforts; and * 4. Identifying potential roles for public institutions in Open Source software economic models. The report makes three recommendations: 1. The Federal government should aggressively (!) encourage the development of Open Source software for high end computing; 2. A "level playing field" must be created within the government procurement process to facilitate Open Source development; and 3. An analysis of Open Source licensing agreements is needed, with an ultimate goal of agreeing upon a single common licensing agreement for Open Source software development. So, there are some promising things that may come out of the report. But there are also some troubling things that are apparent if you read carefully between the lines. 1. How does a report to the President on Free/Open software development not even mention Richard Stallman? The man who almost single-handedly brought the world to this point. Without RMS standing up to the ridicule and laughter from all quarters for 16 years as he preached an alternative to proprietary software development, would the world even know now there was an alternative to proprietary? That the Presidential committee doesn't include RMS as a member puts the whole report under a dark cloud, in my opinion. Also, when you look at who is actually on the committee, you quickly see all the usual suspects, so that uneasy feeling doesn't go away, but is actually reinforced. When I spoke to RMS about his noninvolvement, he said he wasn't even aware that the report was in the works. 2. This raises another question: who knew in the community that this committee was working on the report? When working on a report about the Internet-inspired democracy/meritocracy of free software development, does it take that much imagination to use the same Internet-inspired democracy/meritocracy to prepare the report? Where's the community involvement in this report? After the initial euphoria of what this report may have promised, one quickly fears that this group simply misses the whole point of free software, even if they now realize that something important is going on. Obviously, old biases are hard to replace. This report comes from people who have the same, old, corporate, command and control hierarchical mindset. 3. Did anyone notice recommendation No. 3. the ultimate goal of which is "agreeing upon a single common licensing agreement"? While there are some interesting things in this report, there are also some dark clouds on the horizon. It is hard to say at this point whether this is going to be ultimately good or bad for free software. But it does show more community involvement is warranted to address where powerful people are trying to take us. See: http://www.ccic.gov/ac/pitac_ltr_sep11.html (given below) ===================================================================== President's Information Technology Advisory Committee September 11, 2000 Co-Chairs: Raj Reddy Irving Wladawsky-Berger Members: Eric A. Benhamou Vinton Cerf Ching-chih Chen David Cooper Steven D. Dorfman David Dorman Robert Ewald Sherrilynne S. Fuller Hector Garcia-Molina Susan L. Graham James N. Gray W. Daniel Hillis Robert E. Kahn Ken Kennedy John P. Miller David C. Nagel Edward H. Shortliffe Larry Smarr Joe F. Thompson Leslie Vadasz Andrew J. Viterbi Steven J. Wallach The Honorable William J. Clinton President of the United States The White House Washington, DC 20500 Dear Mr. President: The President's Information Technology Advisory Committee (PITAC) is very pleased to submit the second report in the series of follow-ups to our February 1999 report to the President, Information Technology Research: Investing in Our Future. Open Source Software for High End Computing highlights our recommendations for a research strategy that uses open source software development as the new model for answering America's high end computing software needs. In our February 1999 report, we noted with concern a growing national vulnerability based on the inadequacies of the current system to build reliable and secure software while the diversity and sophistication of the software base becomes increasingly pervasive in society. The PITAC believes the open source development model represents a viable strategy for producing high quality software through a mixture of public, private, and academic partnerships. This open source approach permits new software to be openly shared, possibly under certain conditions determined by a licensing agreement, and allows users to modify, study, or augment the software's functionality, and then redistribute the modified software under similar licensing restrictions. By its very nature, this approach offers government the additional promise of leveraging its software research investments with expertise in academia and the private sector. In the attached report, we focus exclusively on software development for high end computing (sometimes referred to as high-performance computing or supercomputing) because of its critical importance to U. S. national security and science and engineering research. Our 1999 analysis revealed that while there were a number of high end applications ripe for exploration, the field was in need of substantial innovations in application-development software, algorithms, programming methods, component technologies, and architecture. The report makes three recommendations. First, the Federal government should aggressively encourage the development of open source software for high end computing. Adopting this recommendation will require a technical assessment of the software needs for high end computing as well as an innovative management plan and funding model for supporting this development. Second, a "level playing field" must be created within the government procurement process to facilitate open source development. Third, an analysis of open source licensing agreements is needed, with an ultimate goal of agreeing upon a single common licensing agreement for open source software applications. Exploring alternative software development models for high end applications will allow the Nation to make significant progress towards addressing the growing national need to ensure software development practices and techniques which will result in reliable and secure systems. We are encouraged to see some high end computing and reliable software development research topics among the priorities in your proposed FY2001 budget for Information Technology Research and Development. However, we urge you to implement the strategy outlined in our report in order to strengthen the effectiveness of federal investments and policies in this arena. Thank you for the continued opportunity to advise you on these and other important issues for America's information technology-driven economy. Sincerely, Raj Reddy, Ph.D. PITAC, Co-Chair Irving Wladawsky-Berger, Ph.D. PITAC, Co-Chair ========================================================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:24:11 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:54:11 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] Why Govt. Should Promote Open Source Software Message-ID: The enclosed feature article is US Government specific. Surely, this can be adpated for India too. I was planning to write something similar, but dropped that when I came across this article. The last section of the article is missing (I could not download it presently). -- Raj ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This document is located at: http://www.netaction.org/opensrc/oss-report.txt Date last modified: 11 Feb 99 <> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Case for Government Promotion of Open Source Software A NetAction White Paper By Mitch Stoltz mitch@netaction.org Abstract An alternative method of software development, called open source software, creates robust, secure software through a process of widespread peer review. This paper explains the open source concept and attempts to show how government can use open source as a vehicle for promoting economic development and as a policy tool which could assist the Justice Department in its antitrust action against Microsoft. Contents: * Introduction * What is Open Source? * History of the Idea * Private and Public Advantages * Recommendations for Government Action * Conclusions * End Notes NetAction Phone: (415) 775-8674 601 Van Ness Ave., #631 Fax: (415) 673-3813 San Francisco, CA 94102 Web: http://www.netaction.org This paper is also available as a regular HTML document, a text file, an RTF file, a postscript file, a PDF file, and a MS Word 5.1 file. About the Author: Mitch Stoltz is currently finishing his senior year as a Computer Science and Public Policy Analysis major at Pomona College, outside of Los Angeles. His interests are computer networking, encryption, consumer privacy issues and equitable access to technology. His next project is a senior thesis on Open Source as a social movement. Copyright 1999 by NetAction/The Tides Center. All rights reserved. Material may be reposted or reproduced for non-commercial use provided NetAction is cited as the source. NetAction is a project of The Tides Center, a 501 (c)(3) non-profit organization. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Case for Government Promotion of Open Source Software Introduction Computers and the Internet have changed the way we work, study, and interact, yet there are many things about computers and software which we find dissatisfying. Proprietary software is increasingly expensive and memory-hungry. Bugs, security flaws, and other errors appear in even the most trusted programs. Microsoft's monopoly control of the operating system market stifles innovation. Many computer systems are not equipped to handle the upcoming turn of the century, creating a multi billion-dollar problem and dire predictions of a global electronics breakdown. An alternative method of software development exists, called open source software, which offers a very low cost solution to all of these problems. Open source is not a technology, but rather a different way of thinking about and organizing the software development process. Whereas traditional proprietary software development (which created most of the programs we use daily) adheres to the principle of strict protection of intellectual property found in the publishing industry, open source software (OSS) development is more of a collaborative process that has evolved along with the Internet. Open source software is growing its market share in a few key areas because of its natural strengths of reliability, security, and low cost. However, open source has advantages on a broader level as well: it eliminates economic waste caused by the duplication of work, and it presents a challenge to harmful monopoly power in the software industry, such as the anticompetitive practices which are under scrutiny now in the Justice Department's antitrust case against Microsoft. It also provides a cost-effective solution to the Year 2000 problem. For these reasons, increased use of open source software serves more than private economic gain -- it serves a public good as well. This paper will describe open source software, including a brief history of the idea, discuss its inherent strengths as both a private and a public good, explain why the government should be involved in promoting open source software development, and offer some recommendations for government action. What is Open Source? The most basic definition of open source software is software for which the source code is distributed along with the executable program, and which includes a license allowing anyone to modify and redistribute the software. Source code is the actual instructions which programmers write to create a piece of software, the "recipe" for the program. Once a program has been "compiled" into a form which can be installed and run on a computer, its source code is irretrievable. It is practically impossible to make changes to a program without having a copy of its source code. If a program's license includes the right to modify the program, this right is meaningless unless the source code is readily available. Actual licenses for OSS vary between different companies and development projects, but they have certain characteristics in common. The Open Source Initiative, a group of developers who disseminate information on the benefits of open source,[1] has posted on its web site a "meta-definition" of basic conditions which they feel should be included in an OSS license.[2] These include: * Allowing free redistribution of the software without royalties or other fees to the author. * Requiring that source code be distributed with the software or otherwise made available for no more than the cost of distribution. * Allowing anyone to modify the software or derive other software from it, and to redistribute the modified software under the same license terms. Any software which is distributed under a license which conforms to these requirements is open source software, according to the Open Source Initiative.[3] Proprietary software, which makes up the majority of the software we use on a daily basis, is distributed under much different conditions. A proprietary license prohibits modification, copying, or redistribution without the company's permission. It ensures that only one entity -- the company or individual that created the software -- has the right to make changes or even see the software's internal structure. In addition to its legal definition, another distinction between OSS and proprietary software is the way in which it is developed. Proprietary software is created by a relatively small group of developers within a particular company, often working under deadline pressure. They complete a program and then try to remove as many flaws (software errors or "bugs," and security "holes") as possible before the software goes to market. Any flaws which remain after shipping time become the consumer¹s problem, leading to lost work and frustration. Purchasers of proprietary software become involuntary testers. What's more, if users find a flaw, even if they know how to solve it, the software license prohibits them from making the fix themselves. Open source software, in contrast, is often developed by loosely organized communities of programming enthusiasts, collaborating via the Internet. Anyone with an interest and some requisite degree of ability is welcome to contribute sections of the program or to look for errors in existing sections. Because no one is excluded from the development process, potentially hundreds of people can contribute to a project, providing a diverse group of talents and techniques. If a particular company has a financial interest in the success of an open-source project (through strengthening its brand name, increasing demand for related products, or through sales of technical support), they will often hire programmers to work on the project. Other contributors (and for some projects, all contributors) may be individuals working in their spare time, out of interest rather than for compensation. Open source enthusiast Eric Raymond describes a successful OSS development project in his essay "The Cathedral and the Bazaar.[4]" Good OSS projects, he says, reuse as much code from other projects as possible to avoid duplicated work. They rely heavily on feedback and suggestions from users of the software, operating under the principle of "release early, release often, and listen to your customers."[5] This intense peer review process, shared among a potentially large group of developers and testers, finds and eliminates errors in software faster than any proprietary effort could. In Raymond's words, "Given a large enough beta-tester and co-developer base, almost every problem will be characterized quickly and the fix obvious to someone. Or, less formally, 'Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow.'"[6] Open source software is closely connected to open communications standards (or protocols), such as the Internet standards, which allow many types of computer equipment to communicate over networks. Both are developed through widespread informal collaboration. Any communications protocols used in open source software are inherently open, since an implementation of the protocol is revealed in the open source code. The existence of an open source implementation of a communications protocol ensures the openness of the protocol. Conversely, proprietary software allows for proprietary protocols, since details of the protocol can be hidden in the secret source code. The Apache project, makers of an open source web server which serves over half of all World Wide Web pages, explains this relationship well: To the extent that the protocols of the World Wide Web remain "unowned" by a single company, the Web will remain a level playing field for companies large and small. Thus, "ownership" of the protocol must be prevented, and the existence of a robust reference implementation of the protocol [in the form of working software], available absolutely for free to all companies, is a tremendously good thing.[7] Though anyone can contribute to them, open source projects often have some form of central authority which collects and combines the changes which others make. These authorities, whether an individual, a corporation, or a nonprofit, work to maintain compatibility and conformance to standards in balance with improvements from the community of developers. This keeps open source software compatible with the Internet and other important standards, and prevents "fracturing," the divergence of several concurrent versions of the same software to the point of incompatibility. An example of this sort of informal coordination can be seen in the Linux operating system: though a large group of developers contribute to new versions, Linus Torvalds, Linux's original creator, has final say over what code is included. Similarly, the Apache web server is overseen by the Apache Group, a self-selected group of programmers. Open source software is economically viable and presents numerous opportunities for profit. This seems counterintuitive, since the availability of source code allows the user to obtain a piece of software at no cost. But many companies have already realized substantial profit from their OSS efforts. Red Hat Software has become a fast-growing and profitable company selling boxed versions of the Linux operating system, complete with manuals, technical support via telephone, and a simple installer program. Red Hat customers, some 7.5 million by the company's estimate, chose to pay about $50 for the added value which the company provides to Linux users -- even though the company itself gives Linux away for free. As the company says: "Most of the software is available -- at no charge -- to anyone with the time and inclination to download it. But not everyone has that much time...A company's distribution has its own feature set, and some are geared towards specific types of computer systems. Like many other such groups, our approach is to bundle all the necessary bits and pieces into a cohesive distribution."[8] Both individuals and businesses are willing to pay for this convenience. Additionally, the software itself retains some economic value even if it is given away for free. The Open Source Initiative web site explains this way: "If having a program written is a net economic gain for a customer over not having it written, a programmer will get paid whether or not the program is going to be free after it's done."[9] An eloquent testimonial to the effectiveness of OSS comes improbably from one of its opponents, the Microsoft Corporation. An internal Microsoft memo now known as the "Halloween Document," which was leaked to Eric Raymond and subsequently posted on the Internet, says the following about OSS: "The ability of the OSS process to collect and harness the collective IQ of thousands of individuals across the Internet is simply amazing. More importantly, OSS evangelization scales with the size of the Internet much faster than our own evangelization efforts appear to scale."[10] History of the Idea Although the term "open source software" was coined rather recently, the idea has existed for many years. In the 1960's, when computers were cumbersome and esoteric, all software was essentially "open source." As all computer users at the time were effectively also software developers, whose work required them to make changes to the software they used on a regular basis, the computers made by manufacturers such as IBM were generally shipped with source code included. In the close-knit community of computer scientists, programs and ideas were shared freely. Beginning in the 1970's, when many types of businesses (and later, individuals) began using computers for more diverse tasks, software became proprietary in the interest of profit. With only a small fraction of computer users actually writing software, it became profitable to limit source code access and modification rights to within a single company. The one area where OSS has thrived in the period of proprietary software development is in the creation of the Internet. The programs on which the Internet depends are for the most part open source software. The Apache web server, the Sendmail mail-forwarding program, and BIND, which manages Internet addresses, are all open source, and each dominates its market. Many developers who had done work in the earlier period of software development felt that a sense of collaboration and cooperation had been lost, and that software quality would suffer as a result. One of these was Richard Stallman, who in 1983 founded the Free Software Foundation (FSF)[11] to promote collaborative, open software development. Today the FSF remains a key player in the open source initiative. Another major event in the re-emergence of OSS occurred in 1991 when Linus Torvalds, a college student in Finland, created an open source version of the Unix operating system. This operating system, called Linux, is now a mature product, claiming over 7.5% of the 3.5 million installed server operating systems (compared to Microsoft Windows NT's 36%).[12] It is among the top five operating systems in use worldwide. Many people consider Linux to be faster and more error-free than Windows NT or other proprietary operating systems. A large group of developers from almost every continent, as well as several commercial companies,[13] maintain and update Linux. Development of Linux occurs very fast. During periods of intense development work, new versions are sometimes released as often as once a day. When new features are added, they are scrutinized by the development community, which finds and corrects all manner of errors. New versions of Linux often evolve to shipping quality in a matter of weeks, rather than the months or even years of testing which are common in proprietary software development. In March of 1998, Netscape Communications, makers of the most popular Internet browser, shocked the software community by announcing that they would release the source code to their browser and begin to accept changes and improvements from the Internet community. In essence, the Netscape browser was changed from proprietary to open source. This decision arguably made Netscape the first well-known, mass marketable piece of software to embrace the open source model. Though Netscape will soon cease to exist as an independent company, having been acquired by America Online, the browser code it released belongs permanently to the open source community (through the independent entity mozilla.org) and can never be returned to its proprietary state. Private and Public Advantages Open source software has several distinct advantages over proprietary software. As described above, the widespread peer review process involved in open source development creates software which is more error-free and resource-efficient than proprietary software. In addition, OSS is a must for security-critical applications. As computer security expert Bruce Schneier points out, true security is never achieved by attempting to conceal any security defects that a program may have, but rather by allowing anyone interested to seek out these flaws and eliminate them.[14] Open source software makes this possible. Many government agencies will not use a piece of software in a security-critical application unless the agency itself can examine the source code for flaws; in the case of proprietary software, this often means difficult and costly negotiations allowing the agency access to the source code. If open source software is available to fill such a need, source code is available at no extra cost to the government, and in many cases the software is already more secure. These advantages to the individual customer which are provided by open source software obviously benefit government users as well. Low cost, reliability, security, and the ability to modify software to suit specific needs are all important priorities to government purchasing authorities. However, these benefits do not make a case for specific government action to promote OSS. In Raymond's words, "The open-source culture will triumph not because cooperation is morally right or software "hoarding" is morally wrong, ...but simply because the closed-source world cannot win an evolutionary arms race with open-source communities that can put orders of magnitude more skilled time into a problem."[15] However, the widespread use of OSS would benefit the U.S. economy as a whole in several ways, and it is for these reasons that government policy which facilitates and promotes open source software development would serve a public good, and is therefore a justifiable and beneficial government endeavor. The first public benefit of OSS is that it eliminates the economic loss which results from duplicated work. The vast majority of all code (a standard estimate is 75%)[16] written for a specific task by a single company, government agency, or military branch, and is never used for any other purpose. Many problems in computer engineering show up in multiple fields and applications. If a private company creating software for scientific research, for example, must spend its cash and programmer time to create a specific tool from scratch when a military research facility has already written software which performs the same function, economic waste occurs which hurts U.S. productivity as a whole. If source code developed for a specific government application is made publicly available, corporations can spend their resources to improve this software, add value, and find new markets for it, rather than recreating it from scratch. The reverse is true as well: government and military agencies could use source code developed by corporations at no cost, allowing huge savings in government procurement and R&D expenditures. Another area which the government has already identified as a public interest is working to solve the Year 2000 (Y2K) problem. This refers to the errors which may occur when many computer systems' clocks reach January 1, 2000. Since many important systems store years by their last two digits only, these systems will read 2000 as 1900. This could cause many critical computer systems at banks, hospitals, and in government, to stop working, with the potential for catastrophic failure. President Clinton and Congress have taken an interest in working to prevent such failures, including the passage of legislation which allocates funds to the solution of the problem and encourages private companies to begin working towards a solution as well. If more computer systems utilized open source software, a solution to the Y2K problem would be much simpler and less expensive. This is because the Y2K problem is uniquely suited to solution by an open source effort -- the problem is extremely widespread but each individual solution is simple. For many programs, solving the problem requires a programmer to find each reference to a date and each calculation performed on dates, and expand it to allow for four-digit year references. The difficulty is finding all references to the date in very large programs. Doing so requires a massively cooperative effort to see that no reference is overlooked. If software is proprietary, the number of people with access to source code, and therefore the number of people available to find and correct all date references, is severely limited. With open source software, on the other hand, an almost unlimited group of programmers can share this work, allowing for a much more effective solution. In addition, access to source code allows a government agency or company to verify for itself that Y2K problems have been solved, without having to trust the manufacturer's claims.[17] Because the solution to the Y2K problem is easy in the context of open source development, almost all commercial quality open source software on the market today, such as the Linux operating system, is already Y2K-ready. Perhaps the most compelling reason why the promotion of open source software serves a public good is that OSS is inherently anti-monopolistic, and may serve as an effective antidote for the monopolistic tendencies which some economists believe exist in the software industry. The market for computer operating systems and other key applications is currently dominated by the Microsoft Corporation. In its ongoing antitrust lawsuit against Microsoft, the Justice Department has claimed that Microsoft is using illegal methods to maintain and extend its monopoly in a way which hinders competition and stifles innovation[18]. Economist Brian Arthur theorized that the phenomenon of network externalities (also called "increasing returns") creates monopolies in high-tech industries and allows inferior products to maintain market dominance at the expense of consumers. In software, according to his theory, "there is no presumption...that superior technology wins."[19] Network externalities means that the value of a product increases with the number of people using it. This is often true in software, since the more people using a particular operating system, the more incentive developers have to write applications for that operating system and not others, which in turn reinforces the market dominance of the operating system. A small initial advantage can lead to a virtually unbreakable monopoly.[20] This phenomenon can also occur in other product relationships besides the operating system-application relationship, such as software which interacts over a network using a particular protocol. Monopoly control through network externalities depends on keeping the underlying structure of software, and the details of how it interacts with other software, a secret. Because only Microsoft has access to and control over the software interface through which application programs interact with the Windows operating system, it would be nearly impossible for any other company to design an operating system which could run programs designed for Windows. Microsoft's exclusive control of the Windows programming interface is what has allowed it to exclude other operating system competitors, such as IBM's OS/2. The open source operating system Linux, on the other hand, does not allow this sort of monopolistic exclusion. Because the source code of Linux is open and freely available, anyone can distribute Linux or write another operating system which can run Linux application programs. Thus, application developers would have no need to favor a particular operating system manufacturer, and the cycle of monopoly "lock-in" would be broken. Even if Linux captured a majority of the market for operating systems, no single company would be able to erect barriers to competition. In fact, there are several companies and organizations developing professional-quality Linux systems, and the vast majority of software written for any of these systems will run on any other. Microsoft is well aware of how OSS eliminates monopoly power. In the "Halloween Document," the internal Microsoft memo previously mentioned, Microsoft technician Vinod Valloppillil observes that: "OSS poses a direct, short-term revenue and platform threat to Microsoft... Additionally, the intrinsic parallelism and free idea exchange in OSS has benefits that are not replicable with our current licensing model and therefore present a long term developer mindshare threat."[21] Valloppillil also acknowledges that OSS prevents monopoly control because it guarantees the availability of open protocols for software interaction. "Linux can win," he says, "as long as services/protocols are commodities,"[22] referring to the open communications standards which Linux uses. Government, through the Justice Department and other agencies, is already committing resources to correct the apparent problems caused by monopoly power in the software industry. A program of OSS promotion and encouragement would be a cost-effective contribution to this effort. Recommendations for Government Action There are several inexpensive ways in which government could help the open source effort: * Being the world's largest consumer of computer software, the U.S. Government has the ability to promote the widespread use and continued development of open source software through its purchasing policies. Not only would many government agencies benefit from the added reliability and security which OSS products provide, but the increased demand for these products would encourage more corporations and independent programmers to embrace OSS methods. This trend has already begun on a small scale: the U.S. Postal Service, for example, uses a highly modified version of Linux to read addresses on envelopes electronically. Many other agencies use Linux for network administration tasks, as it is considerably more affordable then the competing Windows NT software. A risk-free way to assess the benefits of OSS to particular government agencies would be for Congress to initiate a study by the General Accounting Office. The conclusions of such a study could serve as a road map for future software procurement. The study could address the following questions: 1. Does open source software deliver more reliability and security relative to its cost than proprietary software? 2. Which government agencies could benefit from a transition to open source software, such as the Linux operating system? 3. Would it be feasible for these agencies to begin a transition to the use of open source software? * Another possible government action involves the vast pool of software created for internal tasks within the government and the military. Collecting nonclassified source code in a series of repositories for the purpose of allowing public access would benefit both government and the public. Companies and individuals will have access to the expertise of government and military software engineers, obviating the need to solve software problems which have already been solved. Additionally, if some individual or group takes an interest in improving some piece of software in use in a government agency, the agency will reap the benefit, at no cost to taxpayers. Many agencies would no doubt object to the perceived security risk involved in disclosing government source code. As mentioned above, computer security experts consider this argument fallacious. A determined attacker can find security flaws in software with or without the source code, so concealing the source is actually more of a hindrance to those who could seek out and correct security flaws than to those who would exploit them. To put it simply, concealing source code leads to a false sense of security. Opening source code to the public, though it may create short-term apprehensions, will result in more secure software in the long run. * These actions can be addressed in terms of the ongoing effort to eliminate the Year 2000 Problem from government systems. Using nearly any recently developed OSS software assures Y2K readiness, and opening the source code of internally developed software allows for easier modification of that software to solve the problem. These issues should be brought to the attention of the Council on Year 2000 Conversion recently established by President Clinton. * Finally, as discussed above, open source and open standards go hand in hand. Simple, open communications protocols and standards of compatibility facilitate OSS development, as they form a fundamental building block of any OSS project. "OSS projects have been able to gain a foothold in many server applications because of the wide utility of highly commoditized, simple protocols," writes Microsoft's Valloppillil. Significantly, the strategy proposed in that document for competing against OSS is "extending these protocols and developing new protocols,"[23] which implies replacing open standards with proprietary ones. It is precisely this sort of predatory practice which the government should oppose, both on antitrust grounds and specifically to prevent Microsoft from using its control of protocols to interfere with OSS development. The government should more vigorously lend its support to the open standards developed by industry, such as the Internet Engineering Task Force's standard set. ========================================================================= From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:35:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:05:06 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] UK Government Adopts Linux WebServers Message-ID: UK Government Chooses Linux Wednesday, 20th October 1999 When the time came to replace the ageing Sun Solaris machines that the British Government employed to run its web sites, the CCTA (Central Computer and Telecommunications Agency) the agency that advises UK Government departments on the use of technology, and which also runs the web sites, chose Linux. The fact was noticed by Netcraft , which has a service that can detect which OS and Web Server are in use on any site. In actual fact NetCraft picked up the fact that the British Royal Family are now Linux users, but this does not imply partiality by Her Royal Highness to the open source movement. The CCTA actually switched all UK Government web sites over to Linux following internal tests. The Government Information Service systems manager Mick Morgan described the decision as a "no-brainer". He was impressed by the reliability that was evident from the tests that were done and remarked that "the Linux on Intel combination blew Sun out of the water". So now the 85 web sites run by the CCTA run on five Dell 23000 Dual Pentium II 450 machines with 512 MB RAM each and 27 Gigabytes of disk. The Linux version is Red Hat 5.2 with Apache 1.3.3. All of this has to be very sobering for both Sun and Microsoft. Microsoft cannot realistically pursue the line that Linux is not enterprise ready when it is the choice under test, by the official government agency, for the largest user of computers in the UK - the Government. The work by the CCTA confirms our own research in this area, just as we go to press. Linux is robust and it is reliable and it scales well enough to run a very very large web site. In case you wondered, the Royal web site is one of the most active government sites in the world often clocking a million visitors a day and accommodating much more than that when there is some compelling royal news. ======================================================================= See http://www.open.gov.uk/ for more information. open.gov.uk is a service provided by the Central Computer and Telecommunications Agency (CCTA). History of service CCTA began work on investigating the possibilities for the development of information superhighways in March 1994 with a feasibility study. In mid 1994 CCTA published a consultative report, "Information Superhighways, Opportunities for public sector applications in the UK". This report outlined potential applications that would be made possible by the advent of digital information superhighways. This stimulated useful debate within the UK and CCTA received much positive feedback on the report. As a result of this response CCTA held a meeting in November 1994 in order to develop the consultative process and lay the foundations for the UK exploitation of the "Information Superhighway". At this meeting the CCTA Government Information Service (CGIS) - www.open.gov.uk - was launched as a pilot Internet service to investigate the technological and information issues associated with the electronic delivery of information and services to the public. The service was launched with the following objectives to: * support the objectives of the Citizen's Charter and Open Government * publish government information * provide a single point of entry for people who want access to government information * provide a service which is simple to use * provide low cost access * provide a means by which government departments could gain experience of publishing information on the internet. The service still has these objectives but is now available to any public sector organisation. The advent of Modernising Government has added greater importance to, and expanded on, these objectives. Since 1994 we have developed considerable expertise in all aspects of running a web site and publishing on the World Wide Web. Our site is now one of the largest and busiest public sector sites in Europe and is highly regarded throughout the world. In the UK its position as a leader in the field of World Wide Web publishing and developments has been recognised by many in the public and private sectors. The service has been awarded many prizes and commendations in acknowledgement of this achievement. One Award committee commented that 'this project has set the guidelines for the use of the Internet within Government for the next few years'. The Internet arena has continued to move forward at quite a speed. More recently we have seen more sophisticated and efficient video and audio technologies, the use of dynamic applications to serve web-based information, Internet shopping and more secure methods of carrying out transactions across the web, to name but a few of the new developments. We have been keeping pace with many of these advances, reflected by our ever increasing range of products. Here are some of the key milestones which this service has gone through in this time. August 1994 comencment of service December 1994 service receives 35,000 accesses a week April 1995 service receives 1,000,000 total accesses since launch May 1995 service receives 2,000,000 total accesses since launch. We stop counting total accesses at this point and just record weekly statistics! August 1997 over the course of 10 calander days the service receives 35,000,000 accesses, mainly due to the death of Princess Diana August 1999 service averages 14,000,000 accesses a week Awards CCTA has collected a number of awards over the years for the open.gov.uk web site. here is just a brief summary of the major ones. Computing UK internet user of the year Computing UK Internet User of the Year John Horam, then Minister for Public Service, said: "I am delighted that 'Computing' has recognised CCTA's achievement in providing this service. The Government Centre for Information Systems deserves credit for opening up the Information Superhighway and providing information to people electronically. Increasingly, organisations and individuals are able to access government information around the clock. This award demonstrates the Government's commitment to using leading edge technology to improve service to the public." Magellan 4-Star Award The highest rated UK Government site on the World Wide Web. magellan says: "Vast Web sites are rarely better organized and navigable than this one created by Great Britain's Central Computer and Telecommunications Agency. The CCTA Government Information Service Web site allows users to effortlessly locate an enormous range of UK government information and services. Searches can be performed through a number of indices, news updates are readily available and linked to relevant sites, and government online projects are showcased. There is also a server information page containing tips on how to create a Web site and an eminently useful help page." Lycos top 5% web site in the world It's a good thing the United Kingdom isn't as big as, say, the United States, because then this list of government sites would be enormous. As it is, the listing (indexed alphabetically or by subject) is pretty large. Whether you're looking for acts of parliament, the Metropolitan Police of London or the "Andrew" (that's the Royal Navy), you'll find the pages of scores of organizations here. And we're not talking about a few lines of fluff at these sites -- many offer statistics, pictures and otherwise hard-to-find info. Just browsing through the list is fun, too: you'll come across great agency names, like "Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Pollution." Excite 3 star site The highest rated UK Government site on the World Wide Web. Excite says: The British Government and all its appendages are here. You will find the upmarket Cabinet Office, the decidedly downmarket Hertfordshire County Council and everything in between. Links to the Royal Observatory and museums too. Useful. NetGuide gold site, the highest rated UK Government site on the World Wide Web. If you really want to track the royals on a daily basis or read what Scotland Yard has to say about the death of a police prisoner, here's where you access the UK government's handouts. You can tap into other information from the Bank of England, Cabinet Office, Crown Prosecution Service, Department of National Heritage, Lord Chancellor's Department, Ministry of Defence, Office of Telecommunications, National Criminal Intelligence Service, and others that take the somewhat irregular pulse of the sceptred isle. Innovation in electronic government CCTA are pleased to announce the following awards received from 'Government Computing' magazine. * CCTA Government Information Service received the 'Innovation in Electronic Government Award 1996'. * The Government On-Line Project received the 'Special Award for Innovation for Electronic Government Award 1996' jointly with the Treasury Board of Canada. * The Award for Electronic Government for Central Government Suppliers for GCAT, the Government Purchasing Catalogue for IT equipment, shared with EDS and ICL Networking industry awards 1996. The judges said: "It's not often the Government comes up with an innovative use of technology but the CCTA project was the winner. Easily the most ambitious development that was entered into this category, this project has set the guidelines for the use of the Internet within Government for the next few years." Copyright 1999, CCTA From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 13:52:13 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 19:22:13 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <3B6EA10D.F81E2E62@ti.com> Raju Mathur wrote: > > all, what you /might/ get called by a misinformed press is more > important than what you do, isn't it? > > Ever hear the term ``knee-jerk reaction''? Sorry, I am not interested in debating this, as you said in your later mail, if you are hosting your letter on non-FSF-I site, I don't see any point in debating this issue. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 14:25:39 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Suraj Kumar S.) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:55:39 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org>; from raju@linux-delhi.org on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 05:06:30PM +0530 References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <20010806195538.A30198@in.inapp.com> > Ever hear the term ``knee-jerk reaction''? > > *Disgusted* I completely agree with RK that, we *should not* have opensource anywhere in our written materials/site. No need to be disgusted Raju. Your letter is really enlightening and whoever reads it will stop and think before opting for propritory. But, as FSF-India our goal should be "Freedon first !". There are many people out there to talk about opensource, but not Freedom. We have to highlight that. -suraj -- GNU/Linux rulz! From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 13:23:02 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:53:02 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] Why Govt. Should Promote Open Source Software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 at 14:54, Raj Singh wrote: The enclosed feature article is US Government specific. Surely, this can be adpated for India too. I was planning to write something similar, but dropped that when I came across this article. The last section of the article is missing (I could not download it presently). [...] Raj, you are doing a great service, however, I wonder, instead of sending the whole document to the list, you could have posted the URL of a document that you think will be of useful to the subscribers. That will save a lot of bandwidth, diskspace and mailserver load, please be kind enough to appreciate these constraints. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 15:05:11 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 20:35:11 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: Message-ID: <3B6EB227.20448ED5@eth.net> "Rajagopal C.V" wrote: > need be the FSF-India can immediately convene a press conference to > alert( or enlighten) the press on the points highlighted by Raju Mathur. I FEEL IT IS A MUST. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 14:59:20 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Suraj Kumar S.) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:29:20 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [Reader-list] Re: [LIG] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010806134757.009fc060@mail.sarai.net>; from joy@sarai.net on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 02:00:37PM +0530 References: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <01080612485801.00795@krishna> <5.1.0.14.2.20010806134757.009fc060@mail.sarai.net> Message-ID: <20010806202920.B30198@in.inapp.com> Hello Mr. Chatterjee, First of all, let me take this opportunity to educate you that, there is no operating system called Linux. IT IS ONLY A KERNEL. The operating system which is popular as Linux is actually GNU/Linux. please visit gnu.org.in (or) gnu.org for more details. On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 02:00:37PM +0530, Joy Chatterjee wrote: > "Where as in case of GNU/Linux anyone can add the Indian Language layer > depending on the needs." > Its all theory but in reality MS Office has a hindi version but any Linux > software do not have any hindi version, Quark Express is also working on a > hindi version but Linux doesn't even have any publishing software like > QuarkExpress (and also web designing software), forget about Indian versions. > It is more over frustrating to see that there is no alternative of server > end bitstream technology for easy viewing of indian web pages in Linux. But > truth is IE has! The support that you are talking about in the above mentioned propritory softwares is little. And let me tell you that, even if they give some support, you will have to remain confined to that - zero enhancements, zero customization , zero room for additions. You will be in a JAIL. > So I don't know how Linux people claim that Linux has more scope in Indian > language, where as proprietary models are already working on it !!! There are a number of FreeSoftware projects running aimed at creating softwares for GNU/Linux in Indian Languages. Iam myself involved in one called Project Indigo - a project aimed at making GNU-Linux a viable platform for Indic computing. As part of the project, developments are in progress for creating/adopting various tools like - editor, browser etc. (Refer: inapp.com/indigo for more details). -suraj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 17:34:27 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:04:27 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] ARIS worm notification Message-ID: <15214.54563.883563.376656@mail.linux-delhi.org> Hi, As you're aware, the ARIS worm is spreading real fast on the Internet. My dial-up machine has received nearly 200 ARIS probes from infected machines since this morning, in about 6 hours of uptime. SecurityFocus has setup an ARIS notification address. They will notify the administrators of infected systems given the IP's of these systems, which will help curb the spread of the virus. This is a request to please cull your HTTP logs (if you're running HTTPD) and send the appropriate information to SecurityFocus. The command to do this is: fgrep ".ida?XXXXX" /var/log/httpd/access_log | \ cut -d" " -f1,4,5 | \ sed -e 's/[][]//g' | \ Mail -s "ARIS Infection Report from httpd access_log" aris-report@securityfocus.com [Line may have wrapped] This would work on a RH 6.2 system. Please use the appropriate path to your Apache logfile for other systems. Regards, -- Raju -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 18:35:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Devang Patel) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:35:06 -0700 Subject: [FSF India] Purchasing Power [Was ... Re: GNU/Linux in Schools] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thursday, August 2, 2001, at 11:11 AM, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > > IN A 'SOFTWARE SUPER-POWER', RURAL KIDS LACK THE CODE TO LEARN... > > By Frederick Noronha > -------------------- Really well covered article with lots of good points. > Of course, at the end of the day, much of the Indian educational > software > scarcity simply boils down to a question of economics. In spite of their > millions-strong numbers, the rural dweller simply doesn't have the > purchasing power. So why should anyone bother with writing software > specifically for him? Even if this is a country that is increasingly > claiming the status of being the world's software superpower. (ENDS) > I think, today or tomorrow, we need to get over this myth of purchasing power. On the paper the rural india does not have the purchasing power, but - Somebody managed to sell Millions of Bajaj Scooters/ Hero Honda/ Yamaha/ Suzuki... - Somebody managed to sell thousands of Maruties - Somebody managed to sell many many Television sets (did anybody count?) - Somebody managed to sell many many Refrigerators - Even on newest electronic appliance in the market -- "Washing Machine" -- somebody is making money... - Half of the total population (I do not have exact number) do not get fresh/pure drinking water, but somehow Pepsi/Coca-cola seems to make lots of money... Bottom line is -- if one gives enough reason to buy he will always find a market to survive in India. My thoughts, Devang From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 00:54:20 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Mathias Koerber) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:54:20 +0800 Subject: [FSF India] Fw: CodeRedII worm.. Message-ID: <004c01c11edb$7f177780$f4db7fcb@dean.koerber.org> -----Original Message----- From: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu To: nanog@merit.edu ; bugtraq@merit.edu ; incidents@merit.edu Date: Sunday, August 05, 2001 4:30 PM Subject: CodeRedII worm.. | |Given that initial analysis of the CodeRedII worm indicates that it leaves |a backdoor laying around, I hereby request that those people who made |lists of infected hosts available last time *NOT* do so again. | |Although said lists *were* helpful in the analysis and study of the worm's |tactics, the benefits are certainly outweighted by the fact that the new |worm creates a known backdoor. I'm certain that both the CodeRedII author |and other black hats would love for us to compile a list of afflicted hosts |for them to use. | |So please everybody - if you're sending IP's in to be added to a table, |make sure you're sending them to a white hat, not to a black hat who's |managed to social-engineer you. If you're a white had compiling a list, |make sure the guy's hat is at least a light grey before you give them |a copy. ;) | | Valdis Kletnieks | Operating Systems Analyst | Virginia Tech | From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 18:18:54 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:48:54 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] ARIS worm notification In-Reply-To: <15214.54563.883563.376656@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, Raju Mathur wrote: > As you're aware, the ARIS worm is spreading real fast on the > Internet. My dial-up machine has received nearly 200 ARIS probes > from infected machines since this morning, in about 6 hours of > uptime. Thanks for the notification. I had 241 probes from 154 unique IPs. I have notified my ISP also about this raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 04:30:05 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:00:05 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] Web Sites Related Free/OpenSource/OpenContent Message-ID: OPEN SOURCE/CONTENT SITES

    Software Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Debian's Social Contract
  • Free Software Organization
  • Free Software Foundation (FSF)
  • GNU (GNU is Not Unix) Stuff
  • GNU in India
  • Open Source Research Team (OSRT) at UNC/iBiblio
  • ESR's Open Source Software (OSS) Site
  • Open Source It
  • Open Office
  • Open Source Development Network (OSDN)
  • Advogato : Free Software Developer's Advocate
  • Be Open Source
  • My Open Source
  • Free Source Code (Andover Net)
  • Open Resources Initiative (Free Software Related)
  • EarthWeb's Open Resources IT
  • Mozilla Site
  • Lycos/Netscape's Open Directory (earlier New Hoo!)
  • Open Object Directory Services
  • OpenSSH (Secure Shell)
  • Open Code (Harvard's Berkman Center Initiative)
  • Open Content Site
  • Open Source Writer's Group (OSWG)
  • Open Source Writer's Group (OSWG)
  • Open Projects Network
  • Software in Public Interest (SPI)
  • OpenDWG Alliance : AutoCAD DWG Format Reverse Engineering
  • NuPedia : Open Content Encyclopedia
  • OpenAvenue Portal on Open Source
  • Open Certification Authority (OpenCA)
  • Open Source Security Tools
  • Open Source CRM Tools
  • Free E-Commerce Software (FECS)
  • Music in Public-Domain
  • OpenVerse Chat Program

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  • Public Policy Library From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 05:23:14 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:53:14 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Public-Funded Knowledge : Free v/s Commercial Message-ID: I have been advocating sharing of information (data, software, ...) among the various educational institutes/CSIR/ISRO/DRDO/BARC/CDAC/CDOT etc. -- particularly if we want to raise the academic teaching standards of RECs and State/Private Engineering Colleges within our country. I feel that public-funded institutes have the obligation to share and give freely their contributions to all who ask for it -- obviously barring the security-related strategic stuff. An example of this kind that springs to the mind is CDAC's word-processing software for Indian languages. It should have been given freely to all government departments, goverment-funded institutes, etc. as it was developed with "public" money. CDAC should have been in turn supported to further enhance this software by the money which was otherwise spent on commercial word-processing software by these bodies -- this is a very large amount if one totals up all that has been already spent on this type of procurement till date. In contrast, CDAC was "forced" to ask money for it from others as they had to "commercially" justify the development of this package. Similarly for NCST developed Hindi software. I understand that NCST subsequently tied-up with Microsoft and this formed the kernel of Indian language support touted by Microsoft for MS-Word in 1999. So, now the government and Indian public is paying Microsoft for what (in some sense) was developed with public money and "belongs" to them ! -- Raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 05:07:09 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:37:09 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Possible OpenAcademic Action Message-ID: Perhaps something on these lines should be adopted by the academic community in India too. I expect IITs/IISc/IIITs would need to take the lead. ============ We seek to -- * develop interoperable, open pedagogical software that can be used for teaching and learning over the Net, and for which its code can be viewed and extended by anyone in the public interest; * be a platform for the use of that software for the production of rich, open educational content; * develop new means of open academic research. ============= Picked the above from http://www.opencode.org/, which is a consortium of entrepreneurial people and institutions wanting to create a space for open software, open research, and open content. -- Raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 05:51:44 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:21:44 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] NetAction Site : Worth a Visit Message-ID: <> (http://www.netaction.org/) site is worth a visit. Extracts from [1999:ARTICLE] On MS Monopolizing US Education Market follow. -- Raj ==================================================================== Microsoft Goes to College: The US Education Software Market and Microsoft's Expanding Monopoly Editor's Note: This issue features an in-depth analysis by Nathan Newman of Microsoft's strategy for monopolizing the U.S. higher education market. As Nathan explains, if Microsoft succeeds in capturing the campus software market, it could effectively turn our state university systems into private workforce training programs. To help students mobilize against Microsoft's campus software deals, NetAction intern Mitch Stoltz has created a Campus Action Tool Kit, with samples of letters and petitions, a flyer which can be printed for campus distribution, and tips for campus organizing. You will find the Tool Kit at: http://www.netaction.org/msoft/edu/. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 17:55:17 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:25:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15214.17662.822934.812755@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: I've forwarded a version of this letter to Goa IT minister Ramakant Khalap. On behalf of www.bytesforall.org, we would like to add our name as a signatory to this appeal to. BytesForAll is a total unfunded, GNU/Linux-inspired project that currently has 15 volunteers in six South Asian countries (Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Nepal, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka). We are small in number, but try to act as a force-multiplier by spreading around ideas that could be useful to our part of the globe. Best wishes in your work, Frederick. On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, Raju Mathur wrote: > Hi CVR, > Once the letter has been re- and re-re-drafted, I'd be glad to put it > up on my host (kandalaya.org) for signatories along with fsf.org.in. -------------------------------------------------- | Frederick Noronha, Freelance Journalist | | 784, Near Lourdes Convent, Saligao 403511 Goa | | Tel 0091.832.409490/409783 Mobile: 9822.12 24 36 | | E-mail: fred@bytesforall.org or fred@vsnl.com | /) URL-http://www.bytesforall.org | / URL-http://www.goacom.com/news/ \\ _( (+-------------------------------------------------+) ) /| (((\ \) /_) /^) / /))/ (\\\\ \_/ / \ \_ / / // \ / \ / \ __/ \__ / | | | | /*******\ /*******\ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 09:23:16 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 14:53:16 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Public-Funded Knowledge : Free v/s Commercial References: Message-ID: <3B6FB384.44F0D392@ti.com> Raj Singh wrote: > > I have been advocating sharing of information (data, software, ...) among > the various educational institutes/CSIR/ISRO/DRDO/BARC/CDAC/CDOT etc. -- > particularly if we want to raise the academic teaching standards of RECs > and State/Private Engineering Colleges within our country. I heard that in places like ISRO/DRDO, even internal sharing doesn't happen(reportedly due to internal politics and unhealthy competition). So people endup doing the same thing ad-infinitum from scratch. Here in ISRO satellite center, I heard that they don't even have a proper intranet in place. I wonder how sharing can happen without proper communication facilities and proper mentality. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 16:03:46 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:33:46 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] ARIS -- Oops! Message-ID: <15216.4450.733833.864351@mail.linux-delhi.org> Umm, with regard to my earlier post regarding the worm, the Worm is actually called Code Red II and the reporting tool is called ARIS. Sorry about the confusion. Regards, -- Raju -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 17:38:55 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 23:08:55 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Violation of Fundamental Rights. Message-ID: <3B7027AF.B836D166@eth.net> Dear brothers and sisters Sorry for disturbing you. Is it legitimate to teach softwares that requires a license to practice? - at least in schools. It actually violate the Fundamental Rights. Folowing are my argumnents. 1. (i) Right to freedom of speach and expression . The word "expression" is a method of communicating your feelings and thought to others. I can use a pen and paper to write this letter. I can also user a computer and printer to write this letter. These things are taught at school level. The main difference between these two methods is that the later one requires a license (if tools taught in schools are used) from somebody else - a clear cut violation of our Fundamental Rights. 2. Cultural and Educational Rights. 3. Right to Constitutional Remedies Students are not informed of the fact that they require a license from a third party to use and practice what they are learning. They are kept in dark about this part. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 05:43:43 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:13:43 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] gnu.org.in Message-ID: The delta.christnagar.ac.in which is the primary nameserver for our domain is down from midnight yesterday. I have notified the concerned persons early this morning. I guess, there is a problem with their DOT link and I dont know when this is going to be fixed. Your posts will not appear till the nameserver is up. Apologies for the inconveniences caused in this respect. -- Radhakrishnan List Owner From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 08:54:32 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:24:32 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] Scientists Demand Open Access to Research Papers Message-ID: Public Library of Science (http://www.plos.org/) Should the record of scientific research be privately owned and controlled? We believe that the permanent, archival record of scientific research and ideas should neither be owned nor controlled by publishers, but should belong to the public, and should be made freely available. We support the establishment of international online public libraries of science that contain the complete text of all published scientific articles in searchable and interlinked formats. If you agree, we ask you to join 16,842 of your colleagues from 139 countries in signing an open letter that urges publishers to allow the research reports that have appeared in their journals to be included in electronic archives and to be read and used without obstruction. Open Letter We support the establishment of an online public library that would provide the full contents of the published record of research and scholarly discourse in medicine and the life sciences in a freely accessible, fully searchable, interlinked form. Establishment of this public library would vastly increase the accessibility and utility of the scientific literature, enhance scientific productivity, and catalyze integration of the disparate communities of knowledge and ideas in biomedical sciences. We recognize that the publishers of our scientific journals have a legitimate right to a fair financial return for their role in scientific communication. We believe, however, that the permanent, archival record of scientific research and ideas should neither be owned nor controlled by publishers, but should belong to the public, and should be freely available through an international online public library. To encourage the publishers of our journals to support this endeavor, we pledge that, beginning in September, 2001, we will publish in, edit or review for, and personally subscribe to, only those scholarly and scientific journals that have agreed to grant unrestricted free distribution rights to any and all original research reports that they have published, through PubMed Central and similar online public resources, within 6 months of their initial publication date. ======================= Related News Item ====================== Publish Free or Perish Life scientists are urging publishers to grant free access to archived research articles When a molecular biologist or a biochemist has made a discovery -- often after many months or even years of tedious experiments -- they tell the rest of the world by publishing their results in a scientific journal. So far, these journals have controlled who can read them and who cannot -- but maybe not for much longer. E-mail, Internet discussion groups, electronic databases and pre- or e-print servers have already transformed the way scientists openly exchange their results. And in the life sciences, researchers are now demanding that their work be included in at least one free central electronic archive of published literature, challenging the traditional ownership of publishers. The demand has sparked widespread discussions among scientists, publishers, scientific societies and librarians about the future of scientific publishing. The outcome may be nothing short of a revolution in the scientific publishing world. It all started last fall, when an advocacy group called the Public Library of Science (PLoS) distributed an electronic open letter urging scientific publishers to hand over all research articles from their journals to public online archives for free within six months of publication. To add weight to their demands, the authors threatened a boycott starting in September 2001, pledging to "publish in, edit or review for, and personally subscribe to, only those scholarly and scientific journals" that agreed. As of April 21, 2001 some 15,817 life scientists from 138 countries had signed the letter, among them several Nobel laureates. The authors of the letter feel they have every right to make these demands. After all, it is the scientists who supply the journals with their productsthe manuscriptsfor free. Scientists also help journals by reviewing and judging the quality of each others work, a process called "peer review," without pay. Publishers, in exchange, edit the articles, organize the review process and provide news items and other content. Finally, they produce, market and distribute a printed or electronic journal. In the eyes of Michael Eisen, one of the initiators of the Public Library of Science initiative, the work that publishers do, however, does not justify that they then own the copyrights to the articles. "We think of the publishers as being like a midwife," he says. "They are paid for their role, and at the end of the day, they give the baby back to the parents." Publishers argue that unless they own the copyright, they cannot protect articles from misuse. And scientific publishing is big business: like other scientific societies, the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), for example, finances most of its activities with income from its publication, Science magazine. "I think scientists all over would be shocked to realize what a phenomenally lucrative business scientific publishing can be," Nicholas Cozzarelli, editor-in-chief of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA (PNAS), says. "There are huge sums of money to be had in this field." Journals Don't Play the Game What urged the authors of the open letter into action was the slow progress of PubMed Central, a free electronic full-text archive of research articles started by the National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) at the NIH in early 2000. By storing articles in a common format on a single site, PubMed Central wants to facilitate sophisticated literature searchesfor instance, those restricted to certain parts of a paper, such as the figure legends. Ultimately it also wants to link the literature to other online databases. PubMed Central asks journals to contribute their articles voluntarily as soon as possible after publication -- at most after a year -- giving the journals time to offer exclusive access to make a profit (studies have shown that the demand for research papers decreases sharply after only a few months). But so far, only seven journals, including PNAS and a collection of e-journals, are participating, and a few additional journals have signed up. Even though some journals make their back issues freely available at their own Web sites, they are reluctant to give them away elsewhere. "Journals have just not wanted to play the game," Eisen says. In physics, free electronic archives are old hat. Scientists have been submitting their own research papers -- both before and after publication -- to the Los Alamos e-print archive since 1991, without the participation of publishers, which simply had to accept the practice. Yet the American Physical Society, for example, still sells subscriptions to three journals that publish 14,000 research articles a year. Perhaps not surprisingly, though, many publishers, threatened with either financial losses or a boycott, have been overtly hostile to the open letter. A number of scientific societies depend on the income from their journals to support their activities. But some scientists liken this system to a tax on their papers and think societies should subsidize their activities in other ways. Also, some journals worry that outside archives hosting their articles will introduce errors into the files, lowering the reliability of the information. What if a ug (microgram) suddenly becomes a mg (milligram)? PubMed Central actually detected errors in some of the papers they were given, thereby increasing the overall quality. "The more eyes to look at it and fingers trying to work with it, the more things you can find," says David Lipman, director of the NCBI. On another level, some publishers resent a central, NIH-run archive like PubMed Central because they fear that technical failures would affect all users at once, and because the government might impose restrictions in the future, for example, by ruling not to publish certain kinds of research. On the other hand, PubMed, another NIH-managed database that grants free access to references and abstracts from 4,300 biomedical journals and links back to their Web sites, has been extremely successful and popular among both scientists and publishers. Moreover, publishers point out that a commercial electronic archive, managed by HighWirePress and including nearly 250 journals from many scientific disciplines, already exists and that government money is wasted. Unlike access to PubMed Central, however, most of the HighWire Press journals are not free. As a group, commercial publishers appear unsure about the recent developments and do not seem to have formulated their policies yet. Elsevier Science, Nature Publishing Group (a sister company to Scientific American, which is not a peer-reviewed journal), Cell Press and Academic Press declined interview requests, and Springer Verlag, as well as Allen Press, did not return phone calls. In a written statement, Annette Thomas, managing director of the Nature Publishing Group, commented that "many complex issues have been raised, and we are currently soliciting feedback from scientists, librarians, and other interested parties." Charging Authors, Not Readers One of the main questions to come from the current controversy is, Who will pay for publishing original research articles in the future if subscriptions decline? Only a small fraction of the publication costs of a print journal -- some estimate as little as 10 percent -- covers the editorial and peer review process. Many journals produce a costly print edition and add news, review articles and other valuable information, for which they have to pay. To offset their costs, journals derive income largely from subscriptions, as well as from advertisements, both in print and online, and reprints. But since subscriber numbers may decrease if the access to journal information becomes free elsewhere, various publishers are thinking about changing their business model: instead of billing readers, they plan to bill authors, a practice that is already common in the form of page charges. Overall, these submission charges would amount to only a small fraction of a scientist's total research costs, they say, and could easily be included in research budgets. Libraries, freed from subscription charges, could also chip in on behalf of authors at their institutions. Publishers would make exceptions for researchers from poor countries to ensure that no one is excluded for economic reasons. "We feel it is probably a better system to put the charges on the authors than the other way round," says Peter Newark, editorial director at BioMed Central, a commercial publisher from the U.K. But steep submission charges could steer budget-conscious scientists away from these publications. Many libraries seem to be in favor of open access archives like PubMed Central. "I think these are important efforts, and the library community is very supportive of them," says Joseph Branin, director of the Ohio State University libraries. In recent years, rapidly rising subscription rates for scientific journals have forced libraries to cancel many titles. Most of them now negotiate for electronic access to large sets of journals in consortia, giving them greater bargaining power. If journal articles became freely available after a while, some libraries might stop subscribing to them. But for many scientists, instant access to the literature is crucial to keep up with current developments, so libraries will probably keep subscribing to the most important titles. "Because its available freely over the Internet after the first year of publication does not necessarily mean we are going to cancel our subscriptions to those," Branin remarks. Smaller, specialist journals, however, might be in danger of going out of business. Libraries hope that subscription rates for the first few months -- before free access takes hold -- will come down. But the opposite might be true: if many libraries opted out, publishers might try to recover their costs from the remaining ones. "And for those institutions, my own surely included, this free information could be very expensive indeed," writes Ann Okerson, a librarian at Yale University, in a contribution to a Nature Web debate. Scientists and libraries in developing countries, which often cannot afford subscriptions, would probably benefit most from free electronic archives. A Possible Compromise on the Horizon Come September, will the scientists who signed the open letter really go through with a boycott? Journals depend on their authors, but equally, researchers in the life sciencesespecially young investigatorsneed to publish in "brand name" journals, such as Cell, Nature and Science, to advance their careers. "I can't afford to boycott these journals because my career is not established yet," says an assistant professor from a New York medical school, who asked to remain unnamed. Nobel Prize winners, on the other hand, may find it easier to divert their papers to less established publications. One of the practical problems of a boycott would be providing enough alternative journals for scientists to publish in. Some are thinking about starting their own journals. In mathematics, for example, some editorial boards in Europe have already left their commercial publishers and created new titles at their own institutions. "They are finding that while it does cost money, the costs are actually quite minimal," notes Mary Case of the Association of Research Libraries. BioMed Central also offers to provide the logistics for scientists who want to start their own journals. quote That said, a possible compromise has recently appeared on the horizon: only two weeks ago, PubMed Central announced it would allow participating publishers to link back to their own Web sites, rather than insist that they display full-text articles on the NIH server. PubMed Central would still obtain a full-text copy for search purposes, but they would hide it from public view. Many publishers are currently considering this solution. "I think lots of publishers will grant free access after a period of time on the basis proposed in this compromise," says Donald Kennedy, editor-in-chief of Science. He also thinks that "under those circumstances, the threat of a boycott will vanish." But for Eisen and many others, such an arrangement doesn't go far enough. Eisen still wants to see free access to alternative archives as well: "I remain absolutely convinced that the real future of publishing, five years out, is one in which nobody controls the literature." Whatever the outcome, the scientific publishing world is in turmoil. Both Nature and Science have started e-debates on their Web sites, and contributions from many sides are pouring in. "It [the open letter] was not an unreasonable proposal," Kennedy comments. "It has gotten a good conversation started." In the end, it will probably be the authors who decide the issue. As Case puts it, "It is the scientists who are going to have to figure out how they want their work to be available." ================================================================= Scientists Demand Open Access to Research Over 16,500 scientists from across the world have threatened to boycott all journals that refuse to provide free public online access to their articles within 6 months of publication. After all, the scientists provide the articles free of charge. What's the excuse the journals use? They claim that public archives introduce errors into the articles, making them unreliable! It sounds like scientists are getting a bit peeved now -- good for them. The lesson that "No, you don't have to give up all your rights to your work in exchange for publication anymore". ================================================================= From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 03:29:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 08 Aug 2001 08:59:06 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <863d73mdq5.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raju Mathur writes: > >>>>> "RK" == Ramakrishnan M writes: > > RK> Raju Mathur wrote: > >> We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom > >> proponents in India are deeply distressed to learn about your > >> Government's plans > > RK> I suggest avoiding the term Open Source, and use only the > RK> other two. Because, you see, it sends out wrong impressions > RK> outside. If a press release based on this letter comes out, > RK> FSF-India will be termed as a group Open Source proponents. > > Good idea. In fact, let's all create one version each of the letter > (GPL enthusiasts, BSD License enthusiasts, Open Source enthusiasts, > Electronic Freedom enthusiasts, etc); that way we'll be able to > achieve much more. Even if we don't, it doesn't matter since, after > all, what you /might/ get called by a misinformed press is more > important than what you do, isn't it? Yes, it is *very* important! Propagating the term "Open Source" keeps a "misinformed press" just that, misinformed. We *must* inform the press that the term Open Source is not interchangeable with Free Software and that, in fact, Open Source is nothing but a *dumbing down* of Free Software intended for people who do not understand such *complicated* things like FREEDOM! But a Free Press knows everything about freedom, doesn't it? A Free Press can be the most powerful ally of Free Software. Just calling them "misinformed" and leaving it at that is the worst approach. Enlightening the press about Free Software should be our topmost priority. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 03:57:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 08 Aug 2001 09:27:56 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raju Mathur writes: > Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State government > which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I am making it as > general-purpose as possible so that more people are willing to sign > it: this is not a time for family squabbles. I'd appreciate any > additions/enhancements which can be made to this letter. This otherwise well-crafted draft letter is incomplete if it does not mention the most important point about Free Software, namely FREEDOM. After all, it is being written to a democratically elected State Government and the "Right to Freedom" is a fundamental right enshrined in our Constitution; in particular, article 19, Freedom of Speech and Expression. The letter must impress upon the Government how proprietary software takes away our freedom. It must also advise the Government to ask its legal department to go through the notorious MS "End User License Agreement" to see if it is legal for a democratically elected Government to accept such a horrendous agreement on behalf of its people! As for the rest of the points which lucidly explain all the technical and monetary benefits of Free Software, let us not be naive and forget that we are up against a huge corporation which has a well-oiled and highly efficient marketing machine at its disposal. They can effectively come up with a point-by-point rebuttal of all these points which might look very convincing to a non-tech-savvy civil servant. However, when we talk about FREEDOM, they have no answer! Even their Head Honcho, who may be otherwise a very intelligent man, starts blabbering childishly and incoherently (words like "pacman," "un-American" etc come to mind) when confronted with the freedom argument. Without stressing on Freedom, we have very little chance. The first point of the letter should be Freedom. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 15:13:57 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Tapas Ray) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:43:57 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] MS-WB Message-ID: <006001c11f54$11ef64a0$cea9c8cb@b5m9z2> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C11F81.ADF150C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi. I'm a journalist based in Calcutta. I'd appreciate it if you could = let me know if the protest letter has been e-mailed to the WB Govt. If = so, could you copy it to me? Thanks. Tapas Ray ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C11F81.ADF150C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi. I'm a journalist based = in Calcutta.=20 I'd appreciate it if you could let me know if the protest letter has = been=20 e-mailed to the WB Govt. If so, could you copy it to me?
    Thanks.
    Tapas = Ray
    ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C11F81.ADF150C0-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 05:12:48 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:42:48 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> Khuzaima, While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. If you notice, I have tried to stay away from any of the following: - Controversial issues (e.g. MS' ongoing court case(s)) - Un-verifiable data - Philosophy - Opinions The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which cannot be debated away. Philosophy and opinions, by definition, are debatable, and I had no intention of letting anyone use one single point in the document as a lever to draw attention away from the others and make the whole exercise meaningless. Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "Khuzaima" == Khuzaima A Lakdawala writes: Khuzaima> Raju Mathur writes: >> Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State >> government which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I >> am making it as general-purpose as possible so that more people >> are willing to sign it: this is not a time for family >> squabbles. I'd appreciate any additions/enhancements which can >> be made to this letter. Khuzaima> This otherwise well-crafted draft letter is incomplete Khuzaima> if it does not mention the most important point about Khuzaima> Free Software, namely FREEDOM. After all, it is being Khuzaima> written to a democratically elected State Government and Khuzaima> the "Right to Freedom" is a fundamental right enshrined Khuzaima> in our Constitution; in particular, article 19, Freedom Khuzaima> of Speech and Expression. Khuzaima> [snip] -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 14:03:37 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 19:33:37 +0530 Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org>; from raju@linux-delhi.org on Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:42:48AM +0530 References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <20010808193337.A1855@mailandnews.com> On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:42:48AM +0530, Raju Mathur wrote: > The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which > cannot be debated away. Philosophy and opinions, by definition, are > debatable, and I had no intention of letting anyone use one single > point in the document as a lever to draw attention away from the > others and make the whole exercise meaningless. On the other hand, I feel that if we don't speak of freedom or hide it behind the other facts, the whole exercise becomes meaningless. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 15:22:41 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 20:52:41 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <1043.192.168.0.4.997284161.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> I agree with raju,and hey your arguments with Arun on various lists about GPL and BSD licenses are paying off ;-), good draft, i personally could have not done it better. cheers S.Goswami > Khuzaima, > > While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free > Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. If you > notice, I have tried to stay away from any of the following: > > - Controversial issues (e.g. MS' ongoing court case(s)) > - Un-verifiable data > - Philosophy > - Opinions > > The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which > cannot be debated away. Philosophy and opinions, by definition, are > debatable, and I had no intention of letting anyone use one single point in > the document as a lever to draw attention away from the > others and make the whole exercise meaningless. > > Regards, > > -- Raju -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 05:37:31 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:07:31 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Violation of Fundamental Rights. In-Reply-To: <3B7027AF.B836D166@eth.net> References: <3B7027AF.B836D166@eth.net> Message-ID: <20010808110731.B2124@debianut.ekmnet> [Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 11:08:55PM +0530] M Balakrishna: > Sorry for disturbing you Not at all. > Students are not informed of the fact that they require > a license from a third party to use and practice what > they are learning. They are kept in dark about this part. And also that they are indirectly made to make copies of these *proprietary* programs thereby exposing themselves to the 'information police'. They risk arrest and detention for no fault of theirs. They are led to violate laws which are of not their making ! There is a good cause of action here..... If we intend to take this to task at all, stressing on this aspect of the Syllabi; we have to frame the teachers who fix these Syllabi for our schools/colleges. The teachers who have recommended the use of these *proprietary* material have to be made answerable, they have to be literally sued in a Court of Law for their irresponsible behavior. The scope of getting this remedied is very high. The intent of these syllabus-setters can be questioned, in that they may be having a pecuniary/monetary benefit from the *non-free* software companies. The remedy lies in the recommendation of the use of *free* software which can be *legally* copied and exchanged. The use of *non-free* software in school/college syllabi should be banned by a Court of Law. Now someone has to bell the Cat ! -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 16:41:42 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:11:42 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Violation of Fundamental Rights. Message-ID: <3B716BC6.307689BE@eth.net> Dear brothers and sisters Sorry for disturbing you. Is it legitimate to teach softwares that requires a license to practice? - at least in schools. It actually violate the Fundamental Rights. Folowing are my argumnents. 1. (i) Right to freedom of speach and expression . The word "expression" is a method of communicating your feelings and thought to others. I can use a pen and paper to write this letter. I can also user a computer and printer to write this letter. These things are taught at school level. The main difference between these two methods is that the later one requires a license (if tools taught in schools are used) from somebody else - a clear cut violation of our Fundamental Rights. 2. Cultural and Educational Rights. 3. Right to Constitutional Remedies Students are not informed of the fact that they require a license from a third party to use and practice what they are learning. They are kept in dark about this part. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 18:12:10 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:42:10 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] LINK: Linux in Education mailing list... (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Want to subscribe to an Indian mailing-list focussing on Linux in Education? Please check the following instructions... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Use the following link for subscribing. ->LIFE mailing list ->LIFE@mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in ->http://mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in/mailman/listinfo/life This list is run by Prof Nagarjuna of the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research in Mumbai, India. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nagarjuna G. HBCSE, TIFR, V.N.Purav Marg, Mankhurd, Mumbai 400088 India. Phone: 5567711 Res: 2155604 nagarjun@hbcse.tifr.res.in www.hbcse.tifr.res.in ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 05:13:10 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 09 Aug 2001 10:43:10 +0530 Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Dear Raju, Raju Mathur writes: > While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free > Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. What kind of a compromise is this? We might as well shut down FSF-I then. If we are *deliberately* not going to talk about freedom, FSF-I loses it reason to exist. It just becomes an Open Source body. RMS wouldn't even have agreed to come here for its inauguration if he knew that we were going to *deliberately* omit mentioning freedom in our arguments. > The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which > cannot be debated away. How can our fundamental rights be debated away? It makes no sense! Pappu definitely hit the bull's eye when he said: On the other hand, I feel that if we don't speak of freedom or hide it behind the other facts, the whole exercise becomes meaningless. If you must go ahead with the letter as it is, *deliberately* leaving out "the most important facet of Free Software", please do, but please be kind enough to remove the terms Free Software and Electronic Freedom from its opening line to read: We, the Open Source proponents in India... It's a pity, because the letter states and explains many of the *other* benefits of Free Software so nicely and lucidly. If only it did not shy away from stating the *main point* of Free Software, it would have made a powerful letter. Best regards, Khuzaima -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 05:35:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:05:28 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Sublists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1118.192.168.0.4.997335328.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> I am one for it , provided the posting guidelines are clearly mentioned somewhere so that people know what lists they are subscribing to. S.Goswami > It seems that we need to have more sublists based on themes now > under extensive deliberation like: > > > 1. Free Software in Education > 2. Programming and technical > 3. Projects, developer coordination > 4. General (philosophy, events, licence, etc) > 5. ... > -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 05:59:18 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:29:18 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> References: <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <1170.192.168.0.4.997336758.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > Dear Raju, > > Raju Mathur writes: > >> While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free >> Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. > > What kind of a compromise is this? We might as well shut down FSF-I then. > If we are *deliberately* not going to talk about freedom, FSF-I loses it > reason to exist. It just becomes an Open Source body. RMS wouldn't even > have agreed to come here for its inauguration if he knew that we were going > to *deliberately* omit mentioning freedom in our arguments. RMS is smarter than he looks. He knows what he is doing and why he has come to India.you are over reacting to what he meant and said cool down. >> The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which >> cannot be debated away. > > How can our fundamental rights be debated away? It makes no sense! Why don't you draft one so that we can choose the best one or do some alterations to the existing one.You are Free to do that :) > Pappu definitely hit the bull's eye when he said: > > On the other hand, I feel that if we don't speak of freedom or hide > it behind the other facts, the whole exercise becomes meaningless. Nobody is trying to hide anything , its just a matter of experiece leaving in a physical as well as the virtual world that's speaking from Raju's point of view. GodDammit this guy is a pro and he makes a living out of Free Software Services.I would like you to be in his shoes for a while and imagine, that's all. > > If you must go ahead with the letter as it is, *deliberately* leaving out > "the most important facet of Free Software", please do, but please be kind > enough to remove the terms Free Software and Electronic Freedom from its > opening line to read: Why is it TM too :-) > > We, the Open Source proponents in India... > > It's a pity, because the letter states and explains many of the > *other* benefits of Free Software so nicely and lucidly. If only it did not > shy away from stating the *main point* of Free Software, it would have made > a powerful letter. cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 06:06:36 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:36:36 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <15218.10348.617799.590822@mail.linux-delhi.org> Hi Khuzaima, You are welcome to do any or all of the following: - Ignore my original posting and all follow-ups. - Shut down FSF-I - Use the letter as it is - Use the letter after modification under the terms of the GNU Documentation License - Remove or add any terms you want to the letter Please do remember, however: - You, the FSF-I, FSF and GNU are not the only proponents of Electronic Freedom in the world. Please do not try to take that mantle upon yourselves or try to shoulder that burden solo -- your shoulders will not take it. - My objective in writing the letter was to stop the alliance of MS with State Governments. If your objective is different, please write/advocate whatever you please. If you feel that the original objective can be met with a different approach, please feel free to go ahead with that. Do not confuse issues -- other people (e.g. MS executives) will be glad enough to do that for you for free. - I am not sending the letter to anyone: other people are. I feel I have done my bit with drafting it and releasing it. If you have further issues please take them up with the people who're redrafting and sending the letter. - *Really mad* If I can help stop the WB and other State Governments from tying up with MS for e-governance, I don't give a sh*t whether RMS, LT, Tom Christiansen or God Himself comes to inaugurate the FSF-I. That may have been the most important event in the lives of many people, but this is more important to me. Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "Khuzaima" == Khuzaima A Lakdawala writes: Khuzaima> Dear Raju, Raju Mathur writes: >> While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free >> Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. Khuzaima> What kind of a compromise is this? We might as well shut Khuzaima> down FSF-I then. If we are *deliberately* not going to Khuzaima> talk about freedom, FSF-I loses it reason to exist. It Khuzaima> just becomes an Open Source body. RMS wouldn't even have Khuzaima> agreed to come here for its inauguration if he knew that Khuzaima> we were going to *deliberately* omit mentioning freedom Khuzaima> in our arguments. >> The idea was to create a document which would present hard >> facts which cannot be debated away. Khuzaima> How can our fundamental rights be debated away? It makes Khuzaima> no sense! Khuzaima> Pappu definitely hit the bull's eye when he said: Khuzaima> On the other hand, I feel that if we don't speak Khuzaima> of freedom or hide it behind the other facts, the whole Khuzaima> exercise becomes meaningless. Khuzaima> If you must go ahead with the letter as it is, Khuzaima> *deliberately* leaving out "the most important facet of Khuzaima> Free Software", please do, but please be kind enough to Khuzaima> remove the terms Free Software and Electronic Freedom Khuzaima> from its opening line to read: Khuzaima> We, the Open Source proponents in India... Khuzaima> It's a pity, because the letter states and explains many Khuzaima> of the *other* benefits of Free Software so nicely and Khuzaima> lucidly. If only it did not shy away from stating the Khuzaima> *main point* of Free Software, it would have made a Khuzaima> powerful letter. Khuzaima> Best regards, Khuzaima -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 06:22:46 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:52:46 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <1170.192.168.0.4.997336758.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 at 11:29, Satyakam Goswami wrote: > What kind of a compromise is this? We might as well shut down > FSF-I then. If we are *deliberately* not going to talk about > freedom, FSF-I loses it reason to exist. It just becomes an > Open Source body. RMS wouldn't even have agreed to come here > for its inauguration if he knew that we were going to > *deliberately* omit mentioning freedom in our arguments. RMS is smarter than he looks. He knows what he is doing and why he has come to India.you are over reacting to what he meant and said cool down. It is a practical problem and let us not flame on it. I will agree with Raju on the draft letter since we are talking to the political leadership of a state government who are all well aware of the values of freedom and democracy. It might be a nice idea to add a paragraph on software freedom too which might be missing in the draft letter, but software freedom without software merits is not a convincing factor for the leadership to adopt it for governance, for, you might not have dared to send this letter five years back when this very freedom was available then too in the same magnitude and dimension as we have now. Therefore, let us make the draft letter complete with necessary addition of the paragraph(s) on freedom (Pappu, Satyakam: please contribute) and other missing/relevant philosophical issues, let us make it ready at the earliest to send it to the WB government, instead of nitpicking on a finely drafter letter which was meant for adoption/modification by a wider spectrum of software enthusiasts to suit their philosophy and subsequent despatch to the WB goverment. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 07:41:16 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satish Babu) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 00:41:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010809074116.15209.qmail@web5102.mail.yahoo.com> I agree with this suggestion. What is imperative now is to get cracking on a course of action. Let's put in what is left out in the letter ASAP and get working on talking to the WB government. Cheers Satish --- Radhakrishnan CV wrote: > Therefore, let us make the draft letter complete > with necessary > addition of the paragraph(s) on freedom (Pappu, > Satyakam: please > contribute) and other missing/relevant philosophical > issues, let us > make it ready at the earliest to send it to the WB > government, > instead of nitpicking on a finely drafter letter > which was meant for > adoption/modification by a wider spectrum of > software enthusiasts > to suit their philosophy and subsequent despatch to > the WB > goverment. > > > -- > Radhakrishnan > > _______________________________________________ > http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 08:37:03 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 09 Aug 2001 14:07:03 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Our debate In-Reply-To: <15218.10348.617799.590822@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15218.10348.617799.590822@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <86elql634g.fsf_-_@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raju Mathur writes: > - *Really mad* If I can help stop the WB and other State Governments > from tying up with MS for e-governance, I don't give a sh*t whether > RMS, LT, Tom Christiansen or God Himself comes to inaugurate the > FSF-I. That may have been the most important event in the lives of > many people, but this is more important to me. Dear Raju, My apologies for having generated such bitterness. We were having a debate and a debate need not end on such a bitter note. I do not wish to take away any credit from you for having drafted the original letter and I am sure the final letter will owe a lot to you. Best regards, Khuzaima -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 09:29:24 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 14:59:24 +0530 Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: ; from cvr@river-valley.org on Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:52:46AM +0530 References: <1170.192.168.0.4.997336758.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: <20010809145924.A11542@mailandnews.com> On Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:52:46AM +0530, Radhakrishnan CV wrote: > > It is a practical problem and let us not flame on it. I will agree > with Raju on the draft letter since we are talking to the political > leadership of a state government who are all well aware of the > values of freedom and democracy. May be. But by planning to use non free software, they don't prove their awareness. Or may be, they don't know much about the freedom (or lack of freedom) when it comes to software. If this is the case, freedom is what we should talk of. Technical merrits of free software can always be easily debated (non free world has some of the best lawyers trained to do just that). We can always talk of 60% (?) websites in the world running on apache and all such statistics, but people are ready with other statistics to counter this. > > It might be a nice idea to add a paragraph on software freedom too > which might be missing in the draft letter, Please don't reduce it to just another paragraph. > but software freedom > without software merits is not a convincing factor for the > leadership to adopt it for governance, I feel that we should demand freedom, and just show the government that ree alternatives exist. It is the duty of the government to verify the technical merrits (we can help). If they think that free software can't be used, then we should demand (as citizens of India) to delay this e-governance stuff until they feel otherwise. The government has no right to impose non free stuff on us. In summary, we should demand that the government use free software, just for the sake of freedom. If they need help in verifying the technical merrits of free software, it should be provided. But these should not be (and cannot be IMHO) used as reasons for using free software. The reason is always FREEDOM. > for, you might not have dared > to send this letter five years back when this very freedom was > available then too in the same magnitude and dimension as we have > now. If e-governance is not possible with free software, it should not be implemented. > Therefore, let us make the draft letter complete with necessary > addition of the paragraph(s) on freedom And removal of terms like open source.. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 10:44:12 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:14:12 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <20010809145924.A11542@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Pappu wrote: > The government has no right to impose non free stuff on us. ...... > we should demand that the government use free software, just for > the sake of freedom. ....... > If e-governance is not possible with free software, it should not > be implemented. ..... While we all feel strongly about the Free Software philosophy, taking such fundamentalist positions has a chance to do more harm that good. Pappu, Can you come up with a text to be included in Raju's letter about freedom? > And removal of terms like open source.. When the term Open Source is included it actually does imply that Free Software movement and Open Source movement are similar but different. So why remove it. FSF should always co-operate with other like minded orgs where ever possible with out loosing its individuality. That will only do good to the goals of FSF. raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 13:31:25 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 19:01:25 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: Message-ID: <3B7290AD.E3518184@ti.com> "Rajkumar S." wrote: > > While we all feel strongly about the Free Software philosophy, taking > such fundamentalist positions has a chance to do more harm that good. RMS achieved his goal, without compromising his fundamentalistic position. Imagine what would have happened if he had compromised his philosophy at any point of time in the last 18 years? > FSF should always co-operate with other like minded orgs where ever > possible with out loosing its individuality. That will only do good to > the goals of FSF. Could you please elaborate how FSF should co-operate with other like minded orgs without loosing it's individuality? By being a signatory of a letter which doesn't mention about Freedom? -- Ramakrishnan M World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 14:38:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Geoffrey Williams) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 07:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] MSFT and e-governance In-Reply-To: <3B7290AD.E3518184@ti.com> Message-ID: <20010809143806.29744.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Even more significant than a one-off with West Bengal... PwC, Microsoft to organise roadshows on e-governance Kolkata, August 08, 2001 In what appears to be first of its kind, PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) and Microsoft Corp (India) Pvt Ltd have decided to organise jointly roadshows on e-governance in Indian cities. http://www.zdnetindia.com/news/national/stories/35034.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 16:49:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 22:19:06 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] One more template letter to the Govt Message-ID: Hi all, I am attaching one more letter which was drafted quite some time back for the Govt of Kerala by the then Trivandrum "Linux" user group. I guess it has some important points we can add to the Raju's letter. Please understand that this is quite old letter and some facts may be outdated. raj \documentclass[a4paper,12pt]{article} \usepackage{hyperref} %\usepackage{garamond} \begin{document} \section{TODO ( not in the order of importance)} \begin{enumerate} \item Support options \item Training \item A profile about the business practices of Bill Gates and MS \end {enumerate} \section{Introduction} On 8th June there was a news item in the press stating, as part of computerisation in different institutions under the Govt of Kerala, the Public sector undertaking C-DIT had made contract with the Microsoft Corp India Ltd. It will be a huge project involving large amount of money and having long term effects. In fact the project can be implemented with lesser cost using a technologically superior product named Linux. Linux is an operating system that was initially created as a hobby by a young student, Linus Torvalds, at the University of Helsinki in Finland. Linux is often considered an excellent, low-cost alternative to other more expensive operating systems. In addition to being cost-effective, it is constantly being updated and refined with the latest technologies. As Linux gains greater acceptance throughout the computing industry, more and more companies are supporting Linux via both application and hardware compatibility. \section{Technical Superiority} The days of ``one size fit all'' are gone. IS mgrs should choose the right tools to do the right job. So all the platforms should be able to interact with each other seamlessly and there is not a single platform including Linux that is the right solution. None other than Microsoft knows this better. Since they are using Apache (The most popular web server in the world) to power Hotmail, Microsoft's online portal. This is a transcript of a web client with the Hotmail server which proves the point. \begin {verbatim} HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:50:58 GMT Server: Apache/1.3.6 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.8 SSLeay/0.9.0b Cache-Control: no-cache Expires: Mon, 01 Jan 1999 00:00:00 GMT Pragma: no-cache Connection: close Content-Type: text/html Hotmail - The World's FREE Web-based Email \end{verbatim} Three main char that a business OS should have are \begin{itemize} \item stability \item security \item support \end{itemize} \subsection{Stability} Unices has been around for more than 3 decades and is widely field tested. Linux boxes have reported uptimes in years \footnote{(any egs/citations? } and are very mature. Linux do not belive in the policy of ``Put out bad SW, Have users sufer, make them pay for support''. Linux software, due to the open nature under go extensive peer review and beta testing so that chances of bug is limited. Once any bugs are found the chances are that they are fixed faster than a similar bug in a proprietary software. \subsection{Completeness} Linux is almost a complete out-of-the box solution. with almost all the tools you need to do most of your requirments from Internet and Intranet to mail to File Server. Due to its ability to emulate a Unix machine or a Windows NT or Netware machine Linux is the ideal file server. Using the Samba \url{http://www.samba.org} Service Linux can mimic as a NT server. Users will still be connected to an NT server except that NT magically performs faster with no blue-screen of death. \subsection{Hardware requirement} Linux can run on ridiculously low end hardware. So this would not require the Govt. to ``junk'' the costly hardware every few months to install the upgraded software. \footnote{(We can put in the min HW requirement of Linux/NT for some common applications. Also we can trace the increse in the HW requirement for NT over the versions) } Another important fallout of this is that Linux will beat many of the OS on identical HW by margins that no longer seems funny. \section{Social and Economic Factors}\footnote{or a better title} Linux is a completely free reimplementation of the POSIX specification, with SYSV and BSD extensions (which means it looks like Unix, but does not come from the same source code base), which is available in both source code and binary form. Its copyright is owned by Linus Torvalds, \url{torvalds@transmeta.com} and other contributors, and is freely redistributable under the terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL). A copy of the GPL is included with the Linux source; you can also get a copy from \url{ftp://prep.ai.mit.edu/pub/gnu/COPYING} \subsection{Meaning of FREE software} Linux is not public domain, nor is it ``shareware''. It is ``free'' software, commonly called freeware, and you may give away or sell copies, but you must include the source code or make it available in the same way as any binaries you give or sell. If you distribute any modifications, you are legally bound to distribute the source for those modifications. See the GNU General Public License for details. Linux is still free as of version 2.0, and will continue to be free. Because of the nature of the GPL to which Linux is subject, it would be illegal for it to be made not free. Note carefully: the ``free'' part involves access to the source code rather than money; it is perfectly legal to charge money for distributing Linux, so long as you also distribute the source code. Their are many implications for the access to the source code. These do not matter much for an individual but when a government is using this it assumes serious proportions. \footnote{Can some one write a para about this} \subsection{ Perils of Monopoly} The main revenue source of many companies are the corporate and govt institutions which buys software in large quantities. Business savvy companies will first give away software in a reduced or in a subsidized rate. They are doing this in order to entice the clients in to their net. Buying software is not like buying any other product. It involves along with lot of money a larger investment in the form of training and other custom made software. So once the govt decides on the core OS for the computerization program it cannot change it let us say after 5 or 10 years. At this point we will get to see the real face of the software company. It will then start to act as a typical monopoly since it is very sure that we do not have any other option other than to succumb to its commands. It starts to ask for exorbitant prices for the software upgrades. It will force us to use its other software by changing the protocols of its servers. Microsoft is particularly notorious in this regard. They are known to use their monopoly in one field of computer industry to kill the competition in the other field. An anti trust case is already going on in this regard in the US courts and MS was ordered to pay a huge amount of money to Netscape communications as damages it faced due to the illegal and monopolistic trade practices of Microsoft. \subsection{Catch them early} One of the highlites of the contract with the Microsoft is their offer for training of the faculty of the colleges. Although this may be seen as some thing very useful for us we should be aware of the hidden danger of behind this. The people whom the MS is going to train are the people who are going to mould the future of this country. So if they can be brain washed into the MS fold then half the battle of MS will be won. All the professors and lectures of this state will have their minds clogged with the MS propaganda. This will ensure that the generations of students who are going to pass out of our institutions will not be able to see any thing beyond Microsoft. Such a situation has the potential of propelling us back to old colonialism in the information age. Linux has support for all the computer languages that one can think about and more. In a situation where we could not satisfy basic needs in most of our schools how can we justify spending large sum for the latest hardware so that Windows 98 will run. The ``outdated'' computer is a computer which became outdated since the most of the main stream software like Windows 98 are not working on them. Even then it is power full enough to satisfy the computing needs in college and schools. The MS products are designed such that that user will be unaware of most of the inner working of the system. This will be helpful for a casual user but Students must have this knowledge. Other wise we will be creating users for MS products. In schools and colleges in some western countries even students works as system administrators under linux( see LG 32). What about our students are they not brilliant ? \subsection{Adherence to open standards} Internet is used by everybody in the world, using many different products. For these products to interact Internet community has produced some standards. With the help of these open standards (ie any one can get a copy of these stds) any product from any company can interact with any other product from any other company. This is very much like the socket and plug. We are having an open standard in this. Now consider the case of a very big company which makes all electric accessories and sockets. Its sockets are much cheaper to buy but you cannot put any other companies instruments in that socket. Would you buy this socket when you build your home ? No since if you buy this then forever you are bound to the socket producing company. This is same situation faced by the Internet community also. Microsoft is one of the company which is secretly sabotaging the openness of the Internet community. \footnote{See the the Halloween documents at \url{http://www.opensource.org/halloween}} The rise of the Internet has been both a threat to Microsoft's empire and an opportunity to expand it to a degree impossible before. With various forecasters expecting between \$80 and \$160 billion in electronic commerce by the year 2000, the Internet had become the decisive realm of computer competition for the future.\footnote{``In search of the perfect market'' The Economist. May 10, 1997.} The threat of the Internet was obvious: with a twenty-year tradition of open computing standards connecting computers of all kinds, the Internet looked ready to make proprietary operating systems for individual machines an anachronism. The first action by MS to capture internet and the open world was the creation of proprietary MS -online which failed miserably. Then came the browser war. The browser is the main tool used for communicating information on internet. Through its dominance in the desktop computers it tried to destroy the competitors like netscape in creating browsers. And thus it hoped to control the internet and by using its very deep pockets it was able to succeed to a limited extent. Microsoft follows the policy of embrace and kill. It adopts an open standard then brings a propriety extension to the std and comes out with the clients that can understand this. This will lock out others from the service provided by the MS servers and they will be forced to buy the MS products which will be sold at high price. \subsection{Training and Education } In the networked world of computing the trained professionals are prime requirement for the success of a Software. India is traditionally known as a UNIX country. All our major educational institutions will include atlest a single module on UNIX. Any person who knows how to work under Unix can migrate to Linux with just few days working knowledge. Linux complies to Unix standards. Self training is also possible since most of the required information are available with the package itself. Help is available in plenty from global Linux community through Internet. As the Internet becoming more popular this will be interesting and informative than conventional methods. Linux complies to all the relevent open standards. Since you are working with only the products using open standards it will be easy to migrate from Linux to all the systems which adhere to these standards. Even MS uses these standards but as the part of their strategy they will ``embrace and extend'' it to make it their own. \subsection{Archival of old Information} With the advent of computerisation and paperless office one inportant issue people tend to overlook is the archival of old information. Today we will be able to obtain a copy of any government document which was brought out let us say 50 years back, and this will remain so for future also. Once we achive full computerisation we will not have any paper document as paper is not the best mediun for storing data and also people will tend to ignore the printouts as they can always be genarated. So the original source document becomes very important, and it has to be stored very carefully. Consider a sample document, the Kerala budjet, it will invariably be type set in some wordprocessor like say MS Word. We will think that we can copy it in some tape or write the file in some CD. With this the document will be safe for let us say 2 years, since new versons of software always comes out and it may introduce some new file format which is incompatable with the old budget which we have written in CD. So we may write the software also in the CD, in that case the the document will be safe for another 5 more years. New and new changes happens in the OS market and no one can be sure of the fact that OS after 5 years will be able to run the software which we have written in the CD. So we may think to write the OS also but by now you may have got a feeling that this is not the solution. The solution is again to go back to the open standards. All the problems in the above para occur due to the fact that the file format of the software is propriety. That is the reason why that particular program was needed to read that file. If \section{Economic viability} \subsection{Requirments of an Operating System} \begin{itemize} \item File \& print \item Application Server \item E-Mail \item Internet Access \item Intranet Services \end{itemize} Linux can be configured to provide all the above on the single server. NT would require 3 separate dedicated servers for e-mail,RDBMS and File \& print and Intanet Linux comes bundled with all the software needed for all these NT requires separate products to provide e-mail \& Internet access(Exchange and IIS ). File and print is provided with base OS. Linux can be customized to the needs of the user. \footnote{ The price comparison is given on page 94 of the march 99 PCQ ( the same one which carried the 5.2 CD-ROM)} \section{Successful Linux Installations in India and around the world} ToDo \end{document} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 17:03:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 22:33:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: References: <20010809145924.A11542@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: <20010809223358.A1534@debianut.ekmnet> [Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 04:14:12PM +0530] Rajkumar S. : > taking such fundamentalist positions has a chance > to do more harm that good. Yours is a naive stand which is not going to do us any good. Can you ever think of winning the battle without the *freedom* shield, forget about winning the war ? We are going to stress more on the Freedom aspect in the letter we are going to send to the West Bengal Govt. We are going to articulate the position espoused by Pappu/Khuzaima and of Raju's well trashed out technical aspects. Khuzaima and Pappu have debated out the basic and ethical stand of the GNU, the positions for which RMS has stood for and shown us. This fundamentalist position has a chance to do us more good in the long run and is going to win us the war..... > Can you come up with a text to be included in Raju's > letter about freedom ? Maybe you should also chip in and get the letter out fast. We have to get our act together, before these M$ guys take out the Bengalee sahibs out for a treat at the Presidency ;-) Can we ever hope to match these M$ guys in their PR work ? So, Raju's letter would be about *freedom* and the technical superiority model brought about by its open-ness. > When the term Open Source is included it actually does > imply that Free Software movement and Open Source > movement are similar but different Can you say what the Open Source movement stand for ? No goal, "shunyam". These Open source guys have already started groping in the dark, not knowing what to say in reply to M$ attack on the GPL. We shall in no way include the word 'Open Source' in our letter. Please understand that the M$ guys are going/have already prepared to attack the GNU and the GNU GPL in the corridors of the Bengal Vidhan Sabha. The Open Source guys have got no 'arm-parts' to be trampled on.....we in the *free software* movement are going to be hurt more :( > So why remove it It has to be removed. The Free Software movement is different and we have to make this very clear. We shall not lend our signatures to a document/petition which includes the word 'Open Source'. > FSF should always co-operate with other like minded orgs > where ever possible with out loosing its individuality. The FSF should do things individualistic-ally; if the Open Source guys come around wanting to co-operate with us...good. All of us walk the last mile together....Freedom First ! -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 18:01:32 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:31:32 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <20010809223358.A1534@debianut.ekmnet> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Raghavendra Bhat wrote: > Yours is a naive stand which is not going to do us any good. Can > you ever think of winning the battle without the *freedom* shield, > forget about winning the war ? I was just referring to some statements by pappu which I quoted, not against the freedom. Sorry if my mail caused confusion. > This fundamentalist position has a chance to do us more good in > the long run and is going to win us the war..... The stance of FSF is not fundamentalist, it is ethical. but if we take any ethical stance too far it becomes fundamentalist and that has to be checked. > Maybe you should also chip in and get the letter out fast. We have > to get our act together I have mailed one letter which has touched some of the points which were missing from Raju's letter like the open standards, meaning of Free, Perils of a Monopoly etc. I will add more. > We shall not lend our signatures to a document/petition which > includes the word 'Open Source'. > The FSF should do things individualistic-ally; I do not know if such a position is good for us. May be it is..... raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 19:03:27 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Hannu Puttonen) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 22:03:27 +0300 (EEST) Subject: [FSF India] Gnu/Linux film Message-ID: Hi. I´m Hannu Puttonen, a Finnish film director and writer from Helsinki. I have just completed a one hour long documentary film on Gnu/Linux, open source & free software movement. It is called The Code and includes Linus Torvalds, Richard Stallman, Eric Raymond, Alan Cox, Jon 'maddog' Hall, Miguel de Icaza, Alan Cox, Theodore Ts´o, David S. Miller, Andrew Leonard, Robert 'Bob' Young, Larry Augustin and Eric Allman, to mention a few. It´s about the time to show the film for the world, and that is why I send this e-mail. I´ve been in contact with Sarai (Jeebesh Bagchi jeebech@sarai.net), and they are keen on to arrange a few screenings in India for the audiences interested in the topic in question. I can take different formats of the film on video (PAL). VHS and mini-DV anyway. Betacam SP too, if needed. On 17th of September it will be the 10th anniversary of the moment, when Linus Torvalds put his Linux 0.01 -version of the kernel code on Internet from his tiny flat in Helsinki, Finland. I´d like "the world premiere" to be on that day. But not necessarily in my home country, because in a small country (only 5,1 million people in the fifth largest country in Europe) the few local, internationally known celebrities are over-exposed out of all proportions in the media. So has happened with both mr. Torvalds and Gnu/Linux. It is already a known fact, that the real change and possible revolution in terms of Gnu/Linux and the whole free software/open source will happen in the countries like India. The whole IT culture and business in your country looks very interesting from a Finnish point of view (there was a documentary about it on our tv a week ago). So, after completing this film, I´d still like to learn something new about the phenomenon called free software, before starting a new film on something totally different subject matter. So, we are trying to arrange at least that one screening with Sarai in Delhi on 17th of September. The other possible screenings could take place during the same week. My travel expenses will be covered from Finland and back, and I don´t need any fee, but a local accommodation would be fine. Mail me or call me, if you have an interest to arrange for the local people in India an opportunity to see the documentary before anyone else. Yours, Hannu Puttonen Director, writer Bulevardi 34B a6 FIN-00120 Helsinki E-mail: puttonen@kaapeli.fi Mobile: +358-(0)40-558 3086 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 20:24:44 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:54:44 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Modified letter to the Govt. Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ---1463810806-2078030940-997388684=:7561 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all, I have made some modification to Raju's letter. Kindly read them and send your comments. i have the full letter and attaching a diff with the old to see the difference. raj We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom proponents in India are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans to base your complete e-governance infrastructure on a single foreign company's products. The history of Microsoft has shown that it has very little regard for serving any objectives except its own, which does not augur well for the future of in particular and our country in general. We request you to kindly consider the following points before making this relationship permanent: 1. Security. Microsoft products have time and again demonstrated a regrettable lack of basic security features. Recent incidents which have affected a sizeable portion of Microsoft-based servers and client systems on the Internet have served to highlight the fact that Microsoft makes Insecure Products. The Code Red worm (computer virus) infected millions of servers on the Internet in June and August 2001 and coordinated them (without their administrators consent) to simultaneously attack the US White House web site. The affected servers include that of hotmail.com which is owned by Microsoft itself. The worm is still alive though dormant and no one knows exactly where and when it will strike again. Needless to say, this worm only affects computers running Microsoft's most popular web server. The SIRCAM virus which replicates itself using e-mail as the medium has been deemed such a major threat to computing infrastructure that Microsoft and the FBI have taken the unprecedented step of releasing a joint warning notice against it to all computer users in July 2001. Again, the SIRCAM virus only affects e-mail users who use Microsoft's products -- all other software is immune to this threat. These are but two symptoms of the general malaise that Microsoft's products suffer from. Each time a product is fixed using patches from Microsoft, new security holes in the product are uncovered, leading to another wave of infection. In fact, there have been cases of a problem fix from Microsoft uncovering older (previously-fixed) problems and making them active again; there are no signs that these issues will ever be completely resolved. Note to Raju: Can you give a link to the exact incident? 2. Total cost of ownership (TCO) The Total Cost of Ownership of Microsoft's products is much higher than that of other, equivalent, better technologies. Microsoft is already making moves to make licensing valid for only 3 years, so that one has to pay them again at the end of 3 years. This will also make sure that you cannot keep using the old software, but rather be forced to upgrade. Both hardware and software, as the newer software will not run on the old hardware, even if you do want to. This will place an additional burden to cash strapped Govts and more still to schools. In addition hardware requirements for running Microsoft are substantially higher than those of competing products from other sources. In many cases a computer running a competing product will cost half of and handle ten times the load that a computer configuration running Microsoft products would. 3. Internal security Microsoft is a company owned by American citizens, having its base of operations in the USA and subject to US laws. A clear effect of this was evidenced in 1999 when it was discovered that some of the security and cryptography functions built into Microsoft's operating systems were subject to be used by the US National Security Agency (NSA) without explicit permission from either Microsoft or the user of the software. This is one lone ``feature'' of Microsoft software which came to light due to the vigilance of a concerned individual. However it is quite possible (indeed, likely) that there are other ways in which Microsoft products are designed and constructed to permit illegal access by US security agencies. As concerned Indians, we would wish to be secure in the knowledge that the software handling our critical information about Government and individuals will not permit foreign Governments to spy upon, or, even worse, arbitrarily modify it without the consent or knowledge of our elected representatives and the Government machine. This problem is going to increase when the Windows XP comes out. All XP machines will have to be registered online with the Microsoft, and each machine sends data about itself to MS Hq in US. This will enable MS to keep track of the machines that are owned by the Govt. 4. Flexibility India being a unique country it is very likely that we will wish to adapt the software managing our Government information flows to our specific requirements from time to time. With Microsoft products it will not be possible to do this in any sort of time-bound manner, if it is possible at all. For instance, we may want to create cheap Intel 486-based computers for members of the bureaucracy which they can use to access their e-mail. Building such a low-cost computer with Microsoft software would be impossible since the building blocks of the software (the ``source code'', which is the blueprint for the software) is only available with Microsoft. As users, we will not be able to customise and modify the software to our requirements. To take another example, Microsoft is subject to US Government rules which prohibit the export of some forms of strong data encryption and decryption (scrambling and descrambling) technologies to India except under special conditions. As long as we are using Microsoft products, these technologies will not be available to us and we will be forced to use sub-standard, easily breakable techniques to protect our critical data. This is also the case with multi lingual computing. If the Microsoft do not see enough market potential for the language, They will not bother to create a version for that language. Since the source code is closed no one other than Microsoft will be able to add the necessary support. Perils of Monopoly The main revenue source of many companies are the corporate and govt institutions which buys software in large quantities. Business savvy companies will first give away software in a reduced or in a subsidized rate. They are doing this in order to entice the clients in to their net. Buying software is not like buying any other product. It involves along with lot of money a larger investment in the form of training and other custom made software. So once the govt decides on the core OS for the computerization program it cannot change it let us say after 5 or 10 years. At this point we will get to see the real face of the software company. It will then start to act as a typical monopoly since it is very sure that we do not have any other option other than to succumb to its commands. It starts to ask for exorbitant prices for the software upgrades. It will force us to use its other software by changing the protocols of its servers. Microsoft is particularly notorious in this regard. They are known to use their monopoly in one field of computer industry to kill the competition in the other field. An anti trust case is already going on in this regard in the US courts and MS was ordered to pay a huge amount of money to Netscape communications as damages it faced due to the illegal and monopolistic trade practices of Microsoft. Adherence to open standards Internet is used by everybody in the world, using many different products. For these products to interact Internet community has produced some standards. With the help of these open standards (ie any one can get a copy of these stds) any product from any company can interact with any other product from any other company. This is very much like the socket and plug. We are having an open standard in this. Now consider the case of a very big company which makes all electric accessories and sockets. Its sockets are much cheaper to buy but you cannot put any other companies instruments in that socket. Would you buy this socket when you build your home ? No since if you buy this then forever you are bound to buying equipments from the socket producing company. This is same situation faced by the Internet community also. Microsoft is one of the company which is secretly sabotaging the openness of the Internet community. See the the Halloween documents at http://www.opensource.org/halloween. In fact this was evident when they build the UK government's web site. All other browsers except the latest Internet Explorer were locked out from the site. See http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/19239.html for more information. 5. Alternatives Given these facts, we strongly urge you to consider alternative technologies and sources for software for mission- and government-critical functions like State e-governance. The GNU/Linux operating system (sometimes also called just ``Linux'') suffers from none of the defects of Microsoft operating systems and applications detailed above and is already the fastest-growing server operating system in the world today. Linux kernel is a completely Free re-implementation of the POSIX specification, with SYSV and BSD extensions (which means it looks like Unix, but does not come from the same source code base), which is available in both source code and binary form. Its copyright is owned by Linus Torvalds, \url{torvalds@transmeta.com} and other contributors, and is freely redistributable under the terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL). A copy of the GPL is included with the GNU/Linux source; you can also get a copy from \url{ftp://prep.ai.mit.edu/pub/gnu/COPYING} 5.1 Meaning of FREE software GNU/Linux is not public domain, nor is it ``shareware''. It is ``free'' software, and you may give away or sell copies, but you must include the source code or make it available in the same way as any binaries you give or sell. If you distribute any modifications, you are legally bound to distribute the source for those modifications. See the GNU General Public License for details. GNU/Linux is still free as of version 2.4, and will continue to be free. Because of the nature of the GPL to which GNU/Linux is subject, it would be illegal for it to be made not free. Note carefully: the ``free'' part involves access to the source code rather than money; it is perfectly legal to charge money for distributing GNU/Linux, so long as you also distribute the source code. Their are many implications for this free access to the source code. These do not matter much for an individual but when a government is using this it assumes serious proportions. ****More needs to come here.**** Some of the features of GNU/Linux which make it a viable and desirable component of any Government infrastructure are: - GNU/Linux has not to date been subject to any virus attacks anywhere near the severity of the worms and virii which are infecting Microsoft systems on a nearly daily basis. - The operating system itself and all the applications required to build a safe, secure and efficient infrastructure are available free of cost and can even be downloaded from the Internet. The hardware configuration of systems required to run GNU/Linux is much lower than that of corresponding systems required to run Microsoft products. There is no fee at all -- neither one-time nor recurring -- for using GNU/Linux. - The source code for the operating system and applications is available for perusal and modification. Using GNU/Linux, the Government can be assured that there are they are not at the mercy of any foreign government which can arm-twist Microsoft into putting hidden back-doors into their products. The Government can also give this assurance to the electorate. - Since the source code (i.e. the building blocks) of GNU/Linux is Freely available, the Government can, if it so chooses, modify, extend and customise the software for its specific requirements. For instance, it is quite feasible to replace existing encryption techniques in GNU/Linux with those certified by the DRDO, leading to much better and auditable levels of security. Such enhancements are not possible with Microsoft software. - Many national governments have blacklisted Microsoft products and specifically selected GNU/Linux to host applications managing and monitoring State and Central functions. 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IHNlY3VyaXR5LiAgU3VjaCBlbmhhbmNlbWVudGUgYXJlDQo= ---1463810806-2078030940-997388684=:7561-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 23:22:18 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 04:52:18 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: References: <20010809223358.A1534@debianut.ekmnet> Message-ID: <20010810045218.A954@debianut.ekmnet> [Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:31:32PM +0530] Rajkumar S. : > but if we take any ethical stance too far it becomes > fundamentalist and that has to be checked. The ethical bedrock anchors our foundation and we can never dilute it for your/xyz's liking. So your suggestion of a check on this is downright flawed. -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 07:18:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Prakash Advani) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:48:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [LIG] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <01080612485801.00795@krishna> Dear Raju, This is execellent if everyone can send out this document to their respective state goverments. I hope modifications to the documents are allowed and encouraged GPL ? ;-) I would also recommend you add something about localisation issues. In case of Proprietory operating systems localisation is decided by the company only if they see $$$$ coming in not in the interest of the people. Where as in case of GNU/Linux anyone can add the Indian Language layer depending on the needs. In fact all the localisation efforts so far have been started with Goverments funds (CDAC/NCST). By putting their efforts GNU/Linux they funds would be better utilised. Regards Prakash On Sunday 05 August 2001 12:23, Raju Mathur wrote: > Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State government > which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I am making it as > general-purpose as possible so that more people are willing to sign > it: this is not a time for family squabbles. I'd appreciate any > additions/enhancements which can be made to this letter. URL's > highlighting the points discussed would also be a great idea. Not > being an activist, I cannot suggest the proper methods for getting > this letter signed and circulated to the right authorities. > _______________________________________________ Linux-india-general mailing list Linux-india-general@lists.sourceforge.net http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-india-general From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 02:41:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:11:08 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] One more template letter to the Govt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15219.18884.181097.46116@mail.linux-delhi.org> Hi Rajkumar, Great document. I specially liked the parts about incompatible standards and document archiving, and in retrospect wish I'd included those in my original document :-) Can still do so if enough people feel that they're relevant (at the risk of raising some more hackles among the community and blood pressure at my end ;-) Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "Rajkumar" == Rajkumar S writes: Rajkumar> Hi all, I am attaching one more letter which was drafted Rajkumar> quite some time back for the Govt of Kerala by the then Rajkumar> Trivandrum "Linux" user group. I guess it has some Rajkumar> important points we can add to the Raju's letter. Rajkumar> Please understand that this is quite old letter and some Rajkumar> facts may be outdated. Rajkumar> raj Rajkumar> \documentclass[a4paper,12pt]{article} Rajkumar> \usepackage{hyperref} %\usepackage{garamond} Rajkumar> \begin{document} Rajkumar> \section{TODO ( not in the order of importance)} Rajkumar> \begin{enumerate} \item Support options \item Training Rajkumar> \item A profile about the business practices of Bill Rajkumar> Gates and MS \end {enumerate} Rajkumar> \section{Introduction} On 8th June there was a news item Rajkumar> in the press stating, as part of computerisation in Rajkumar> different institutions under the Govt of Kerala, the Rajkumar> Public sector undertaking C-DIT had made contract with Rajkumar> the Microsoft Corp India Ltd. It will be a huge project Rajkumar> involving large amount of money and having long term Rajkumar> effects. In fact the project can be implemented with Rajkumar> lesser cost using a technologically superior product Rajkumar> named Linux. Rajkumar> [snip] -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 03:57:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 10 Aug 2001 09:27:08 +0530 Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <863d70va7f.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Hi, There were other things which I wanted to say before I lost my balance yesterday. Please bear with me: > The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which > cannot be debated away. I think I mentioned in an earlier post about the well-oiled and efficient marketing machine at MS's disposal. They employ some of the best (albeit, misguided) brains in the business whose *full time* job is to debate these "hard facts" about security, flexibility, total cost etc. It is a well-known fact, even more well-known in OUR community, that Microsoft reached where it did not because of any technical merit but entirely on its marketing merits. They will depute their best marketing guys to refute all these hard facts and convince the civil servants (or even ministers) that their product is in fact better! Don't expect the poor civil servant to differentiate fact from FUD. Microsoft is the *MASTER* of these techniques. We *cannot* beat them at their own game. Organisations having far more resources then us, and having far superior products then Microsoft's, have tried this game and failed. Just stressing on GNU/Linux's technical superiority, flexibility, security etc is not only insufficient, but *futile*! If, at this late stage when the WB Government has apparently already decided to go ahead with its tie-up with MS, we cannot convince them *solely* on the basis of the *philosophy* of Free Software, on the basis of *Freedom*, then let it be so. One state lost to MS, one battle lost. But let us not fall into this trap of discussing only the "hard facts". If tomorrow, another state decides to tie up with, say, Adobe or Oracle, are we going to write up another document describing all the "technical demerits" of their software vis-a-vis Free Software alternatives? You see the futility of this approach? You see how "knee-jerk" it is? It will simply constantly keep us on our toes without achieving anything. It will magnify every small battle into a large unfightable one. I would like to address all the "practical" folks out there. The only practical approach to fighting proprietary software is the one based on *freedom*. You don't even have to be an "idealist" to appreciate this. It is so obvious! Instead of expending our energies writing individual anti-MS, anti-Adobe, anti-Oracle etc. letters of questionable value, let us endeavour to write one generic anti-proprietary-software letter addressed to Governments, describing all the ills of proprietary software and all the benefits (in their entirety) of Free Software. Let us not wait till another State Government decides to tie up with another proprietary software company before we send this letter. Let us draft it and send it now! Most of the material required for such a letter can be easily gleaned from the FSF web site. - Khuzaima Raju Mathur writes: > Khuzaima, > > While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free > Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. If you > notice, I have tried to stay away from any of the following: > > - Controversial issues (e.g. MS' ongoing court case(s)) > - Un-verifiable data > - Philosophy > - Opinions > > The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which > cannot be debated away. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 05:09:09 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:39:09 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <863d70va7f.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: On 10 Aug 2001, Khuzaima A. Lakdawala wrote: > letters of questionable value, let us endeavour to write one > generic anti-proprietary-software letter Can you write that and send the draft to the list raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 05:11:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 10 Aug 2001 10:41:52 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Modified letter to the Govt. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86ofpo7b3b.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> > The history of Microsoft has shown that it has > very little regard for serving any objectives except its own That is the history of most multinational corporations. This is a "virtue" of global capitalism. This is far beyond the ambit of the Free Software movement. The above may be changed to: The history of Microsoft has shown that it has nothing but contempt for its users' rights. By going ahead with your tie-up and subsequently accepting Microsoft's licensing agreement, you will be surrendering some of the rights which are otherwise guaranteed to us by our Constitution. Considering that it is the Governments *duty* to protect the constitutional rights of its citizens, it is unthinkable that the Government *itself* would surrender some of these rights to a foreign corporation. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 05:13:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:43:56 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] Mark Summerfield : A Letter From 2020 Message-ID: Letter from 2020 By Mark Summerfield 9/18/00 Dear Me, I'm not sure if reading this letter is illegal. I thought it only fair to warn you; it might be better to just destroy it. The actual writing has been a bit of a chore. Word.NET isn't what it used to be. Even Microsoft.NET couldn't afford to patent everything, so whilst I can do Find, there's no Replace anymore. One good thing about having only one legal operating system is that it's very stable. I'm glad they never update Windows.NET; anyone can live with three or four crashes a day and the hourly rent is less than I pay for my apartment. I try to remember what it was like when I was a kid but it's really difficult; the world has changed so much since then. I found a paper book the other day that described the rise and fall of something called the "Internet". It started out with people putting up links on computers so that they could follow the link and read things on other computers for free. After it got to be popular, companies started to create machines with lots of links that you could search to find things of interest. But someone put up a link to something illegal and got sued and had their machine shut down. This happened a few times and people started to take the links off their machines. The search engine companies were the first to go and without them, you couldn't find anything. Eventually no one put up links anymore because the legal risk was too great. The important thing is that it reduced terrorism. I'm not sure how it could have worked anyway. Anything I write on my computer or any music I create gets stored by Word.NET and Music.NET in encrypted formats to protect my privacy. No one but me, Microsoft.NET and the National Corporation can read or hear my stuff even if they could link to it. I shouldn't admit it, but sometimes I go to certain places and speak to the subversives. I know its wrong but their warped views on things have some kind of morbid fascination. For example, I spoke to someone who claimed to be a historian the other day. She had courage all right, admitting to an illegal activity like that. I hadn't understood why it was illegal until she explained. History, she told me, gives you context. You can compare today with some time in the past; ask questions like, "are people better off", "look at the different forms of doing business", "compare corporate records or the rights of citizens" (I think she meant employees). But what interested her was that future generations will know nothing about us; all our records and art are stored digitally, most of it will simply disappear when no one rents it anymore -- remember the sadness when the last digital copy of Sgt. Pepper was accidentally erased? And the data that does survive will all be encrypted and in proprietary formats anyway -- even if there were historians they'd have no right to reverse engineer the formats. I can vaguely remember that people used to have physical copies of music and films, although I'm not sure how that was possible, or what the point was when we can rent whatever we like from the air interface. I don't think it matters that those who come after us can't read our writings or hear our music or see our films; these things are temporal anyway, if no one rents them then they can't be worth keeping. The saddest subversive I met claimed to be a programmer. He said that he was writing a program using Basic.NET. He must have been insane. Even if his program worked he wouldn't be allowed to run it. How could one person possibly check every possible patent infringement in a program they wrote? And even if he hadn't infringed he couldn't sell it without buying a compatibility license from Microsoft.NET and who could possibly afford that? He had said something about gippling the software, which apparently means giving it away, but mad as he was, even he knew that under WUCITA that would be illegal. These subversives really don't seem to understand that a few restrictions are necessary for the sake of innovation. And progress has been made. We don't have spam since most people can't afford an email license due to the expensive patent royalties. Our computer systems all have the same operating system, user interface and applications so everyone knows how to use them, and although they crash and don't work very well, we all know the limitations and can live with them. We have no piracy of intellectual property since we rent it as we want it and have no means of storing it. It was the USA that showed the world the way of course. First the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, then more and more software patents. The Japanese followed suit. The Europeans were a problem, which is only to be expected, with their anti-business un-Christian socialist tendencies. Fortunately, common sense prevailed, helped along by the good old dollar I've no doubt and they accepted both software patents and a redefinition of copyright to suit global corporations. Once the USA, Japan and Europe had uniform intellectual property laws to protect our corporations and our way of life, everyone else had to play ball or they couldn't trade. The result has been that every algorithm and computer program and every piece of music and film (after all music and film can be put into digital form and are therefore a form of software) have been patented. No more variations on Beethoven (unless you've got the patentees approval). No more amateur participation in music or film which might risk lowering standards. No more challenge to established business and business practices. I'm crazy to have written I know. But I am so happy in the world and I remember how unhappy I used to be. I wanted to somehow pass back to you the knowledge that its all going to be okay, that the world really is getting better. Sincerely, Mark. (c) 2000 Triad Commerce Group, LLC. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 05:30:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:00:56 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [Q&A] Gates and Dertouzos Message-ID: Titans Talk Tech : Bill G. and Michael D. Michael Dertouzos and Bill Gates ponder open-source software and the future of the computing industry. DERTOUZOS: It is ironic to me that in the United States, the bastion of capitalism, where people have given of their work lives and capital to create a huge industrial economy, we are now asked to surrender the very same factors of production -- our labor and our capital -- to develop software that will be open and free for all. I do see some qualified benefits to open software, but I wanted to get your views on the big picture before going any deeper. GATES: Most of the people and companies that create intellectual property will continue to want to get some payment for it, as with any creative area. The beauty of all intellectual property compared to physical property is that there is no marginal cost of production. The world benefits immensely from this, whether it's from a great book or a new drug or a new piece of software. There are fixed costs, so most work will cost something, but for software sold on a high-volume low-price model the price is very small compared to the value. There's always been a role for open-source software, and there always will be. Free software has been around for a long time. Likewise there is commercial software where the source is easy to access so the pricing and the source availability are two different things. Ideally, software should be componentized enough that you could extend it without having to read and rebuild the source code of the product. For any software to gain widespread acceptance and use to be popular with consumers and corporate customers it has to possess the infrastructure and support that make it efficient and easy to deploy. So just as the car became popular only when there was a network of gas stations, repair shops, dealerships, paved roads and so on, the same is true for software and most other products. The role of common standards in intellectual property is central here. Thanks to a common operating system standard -- Windows -- a whole industry got created, one that employs more than five million people worldwide. When both hardware companies and independent software vendors have a common standard to work with, the end result is enormous choice for consumers. Open-source software's strength is massive customization but this works against consistency. Consumers don't know what to expect when they load the software; corporate customers find it hard to stay current as each version is customized; developers don't get a volume market because there are multiple flavors of the same product. A lot of software that started out as university software -- like browsers -- transitioned to become commercial software when customers asked for rich features and broad support. In the case of browsers they stayed free because of the advertising value and additional demand for complementary products that they create. DERTOUZOS: I agree with you that there is a role for all three -- commercial, open, and free software -- and add to the list another important benefit of open software : It accumulates for everyone's use code contributed by many programmers. But what of commercial software, that has the potential of becoming a standard for millions of people? To be used widely, it will be given away initially, and sold later when it has taken hold. In the long term, after the software has stabilized and returned its development cost and a good profit, software developers may find it increasingly difficult to charge for it. I suspect that such software, and maybe most software, will, after a commercial period, become very low-cost, and in some cases, even free. Do you think this is likely? GATES: One of the key characteristics of the software industry is that, because of incredibly rapid technological change, products must be continuously modified to reflect innovations. For example, software will need to change to support speech input, which will be fantastic for users. So development costs are ongoing. With the high-volume, low-cost model adopted by Microsoft and the PC software industry, such costs are spread widely, so consumers pay a very low price to benefit from billions of dollars of R&D. The key is in value and utility -- if consumers get both, they will be willing to pay for them and, if the software is good enough, it will be used widely from the outset. So the world you are describing already exists : Consumers already get an amazing amount of functionality from their software at a very low cost. Contrast the old proprietary computing model, where software accounted for a high proportion of system cost, with the PC model, where software is only a tiny percentage of overall cost. That comparison makes much of today's PC software seem almost free. DERTOUZOS: In the commercial period, when the software is still evolving, a successful strategy for maintaining revenue is, increasingly, the annual upgrade, which, incidentally, adds to the "feature shock" of users. This practice, together with an evolving Web, suggests that we'll move from buying shrink-wrapped software to simply buying upgrades through periodic downloads at a monthly fee. Do you see Microsoft and other software developers becoming such "service" organizations? GATES: Regular upgrades are clearly necessary in an industry that is changing as fast as the software business -- just as they are in, say, the auto industry. I can't ever imagine a time when software will not continue to evolve in this way. With the high-volume, low-cost model, you have to make the software as attractive as possible to as many computer users as possible, and that means lots of features. And clearly not all of them will be used by every buyer. But in general I think you are right that, in order to "hide" the complexity and adaptability of software from the average user, upgrades will increasingly be carried out transparently and automatically, without users having to do anything. So rather than having to ensure that your software is always up-to-date, the software will do it for you -- you'll wake up in the morning and the latest version of the software will have been installed overnight. To that extent, software will evolve into even more of a service business than it already is, and in the long term there will probably be a move toward a subscription-style model. DERTOUZOS: Browsers and operating systems will merge in functionality, simply because people need to have the same commands for dealing with information, regardless of whether it is local or distant. On this, you and I agree. However, we disagree on how to get there: I dream of a system built from scratch that gets rid of layers of old software and brings a new truly easy-to-use metaphor to the Web-centric world, as important as the desktop was earlier. I believe that you want to get there gradually, by upgrading Windows. Recall that the Web itself was created by a small team of people, yet ended up on millions of computers. Could something like that happen here, with a new system that might spring out of nowhere? Would you consider replacing your own baby, ahead of a competitive threat, with a brand-new, simple, super-efficient browser-operating system? GATES: Whenever a new word is added to a computer language or a new feature to an operating system there is a question of whether it would be better to start from scratch. We actually did start from scratch with Windows NT and I am sure we will do so again. In the meantime, we are evolving every version of our operating system. We have made the browser and HTML the primary display language, replacing the old style help and folder display. There are new operating systems that integrate the browser like BeOS but none have done as much as Windows has. For every new advance there will be many new competitors, including people who compete with a whole new operating system and people who compete using middleware to run on top of the operating system. If we do our job well, giving people the new capabilities and compatibility, we can make a big contribution. With Windows running on well over 200 million computers worldwide, we constantly think about the customer base and how we get them from here to there. A lot of the "layers of old software" you refer to do get eliminated we're constantly stripping out redundant code or replacing it with faster ways of doing what the old code did. DERTOUZOS: The millions of users of all operating systems and browsers, worldwide, appreciate the need for system stability. Yet the incremental changes that have ensured it have also led to today's difficult-to-use systems and I mean the systems of all software developers, without exception. Novices and experts alike kneel (I sometimes even cry) as we try to fend off a tangle of intertwined lizards and thousands of moving parts within these systems and the many applications that use them until we luck in on a fix. We'll have to clean up this mess if we are to provide the true ease of use that will enable people to achieve the 300 percent productivity gains we envision in the 21st century. People will have to rise above battling low-level details, to access the knowledge they need, collaborate with others, customize their systems to their own human needs and automate their own repetitive tasks. I think the time has come to bridge local and distant computation and support these much-needed capabilities in a new breed of system; applications will then be freed up to use all this new power in medicine, education, business, recreation, commerce and so on. I can't see us getting there incrementally. GATES: The danger here is that we may simply dismiss the progress that the computer software and hardware industries have already made. Twenty years ago nobody used a computer unless they were a hobbyist or employed by a corporate IT department. Now, even a child can use a PC to carry out computing tasks that were actually beyond the capabilities of those 1970s IT departments. We've already seen huge gains in productivity as a result of the PC, and enormous strides in education, medicine, recreation and commerce. Four years ago you couldn't buy a book online; now you can buy almost anything online. And the gulf between remote and local computers is already being bridged, both by the Web and by other networking technologies. Clearly, we're only at the start of the Digital Age, and our future progress will undoubtedly dwarf our past achievements. But we shouldn't underestimate how far we've already come. We also shouldn't underestimate how much work remains to be done. Simplicity is a key goal, but it's a constantly moving target. Both hardware and software are constantly becoming ever more sophisticated, we want to add more and different types of devices to our computers, and we want all this to work perfectly and easily and be simple to upgrade too. Plus we're trying to drive computer usage toward less-technical consumers deep into the mass market. And that's a huge challenge for the industry, but one we undoubtedly have to meet if we are to drive future growth. DERTOUZOS: The Agrarian Revolution with its plow, the Industrial Revolution with its steam engine and the Information Revolution with its computer have all improved our economic lives. Maybe the time has come for a new revolution, not about things, but about the most precious resource on this planet -- ourselves? What role and purpose do you see for human beings in the Information Age? GATES: I'm very optimistic about the role of human beings in the Information Age, because this is an era where people their knowledge, and their ability to put that knowledge to work will be more important than ever before. There are great dangers to thinking that just because manual labor -- whether on the land or in factories -- is playing a relatively smaller role in wealth creation, then people are also playing a smaller role. In fact, the Information Age is enabling people who were previously forced to pursue a single means of wealth creation those, for example, who lived in remote areas had no option but to work on the land to choose from a far wider range of work. Technology such as the PC, the Internet and cheap telecommunications have brought amazing mobility to the factors of production. The Information Age has brought people together in even more fundamental ways. The increasing speed and flow of information has opened up closed economies and helped democratize the most repressive regimes. You can close geographic borders but you can't build effective borders in cyberspace. So technology is giving people more freedom, and the power to do more with that freedom. And technology will never replace the wonders of human interaction no matter how good PCs get at recognizing voice or handwriting, they'll never read body language or smile back at you. DERTOUZOS: I fully share your views and optimism on human beings and the future uses of the technologies we are developing. However, I am concerned about a split that started 300 years ago in the Enlightenment that busted up faith and reason, man and nature, which until that time were united. The liberation of reason caused science to blossom and led to the Industrial Revolution, which made our part of the world wealthy. By now, this split has taken hold, and each of us goes through life in a compartment, labeled technologist or humanist, rational or spiritual, logical or emotional. I don't see the Information Revolution curing this split. It may even aggravate it by increasing our reliance on virtual encounters and machine knowledge. Meanwhile, the world around us is becoming explosively complex with a myriad of intertwined challenges and problems that straddle these divisions and cannot be handled with such partial mind sets. To cope with this new world, but also to enrich ourselves, I believe we need to unite our divided selves and try to become whole again. That's what I mean by a fourth revolution aimed at understanding, beyond things, ourselves. Any thoughts along these lines? GATES: If the Information Revolution did lead to a reliance on virtual encounters and machine knowledge, then I would agree with you. In reality, though, the computer is increasingly a gateway to knowledge, to the arts, to new cultures, and so on, that were simply not accessible before. It is creating communities that, far from being mere virtual entities, serve as the foundation for real relationships. So to the extent that the computer can link people with knowledge and cultures and each other more efficiently than any other past technology, it can help push them toward healing the rift you see. But technology is only a Toland, like all tools, its effectiveness depends on the skill and intentions of the user. In the end, you have to put your faith in human nature. If you think the invention of the book was bad, then you will feel the same way about the changes that are coming. If the book was a good thing, then these advances carry the empowerment even further. DERTOUZOS: I agree with you on this last point: The angels and the devils are definitely within us, not within the machines we use. And so are our divided selves. That's why I view this as a human problem in need of a human revolution. Speaking of human problems, I believe that left to its own devices, the new world of information will increase the gap between rich and poor people, simply because computers make the rich more productive and hence richer, while the poor are standing still. Do you agree? GATES: The power of cheap software and cheap computing has brought enormous economic power to millions of people who in the past lacked it. It has helped democratize nations and economies around the world. It is bringing about the death of distance, as high-speed telecommunications link people, companies and countries faster and cheaper than ever before. And while this Information Revolution hasn't yet reached deeply into the poorest regions of the world, it will look at what is happening in India and China, for example. The Industrial Age did in many ways bypass poorer countries; the Information Age actually gives those countries a chance to compete on equal footing with richer countries. In fact many of the poorer countries have a comparative advantage in that they can now leverage their cheaper labor around the world not just locally using the power of the PC, the Internet and cheap telecommunications. The poor are not standing still; they are catching up faster than they ever did in the Industrial Age. DERTOUZOS: I share the view that the poor could rise out of poverty, by using the new world of information to learn how to read and write, take care of their health, cultivate the land, and acquire language and other skills that they may use to sell services in the information marketplace. However, for this to happen, the poor will need communications, workstations and training all of which cost a great deal, and therefore cannot materialize spontaneously. The people you allude to, in Bangalore and elsewhere, who deliver software services over the Net, speak English and know how to program. They are but a drop in the ocean of six billion people on Earth, barely 2 percent of whom are interconnected. My point is that all the benefits that we envision will not become available to the poor if we leave the Information Revolution to its own devices. We need to take an active role as individuals, companies and governments of the industrially rich world to help the poor ascend along this path. How can you disagree, in light of all you have done along these lines? GATES: Unfortunately, the benefits of every new technology tend to trickle down slowly. Even the earliest tools of the communications revolution the auto, the airplane, the telephone have yet to benefit some poorer parts of the world. But what will clearly help the spread of information technology is the amazing speed at which computing costs have dropped, along with information technology's ability to break down borders. We're already seeing examples of how cheap PCs can transform companies and government agencies in poorer countries, and the benefits of these changes feed directly to the population. But generally, you are right: companies and individuals in rich countries will have to contribute technology and cash to kick-start a truly global Information Revolution. I am a big believer in philanthropy, and I'm excited about the impact it can have. I think it is also important to consider priorities. I have chosen to focus on making sure that children in poor countries get access to vaccines so they can live a healthy life. This has to come before making sure they have access to computers. I have put more than $6 billion into my two foundations because of my enthusiasm for taking the great advances in medicine and information technology and giving more people access. We can do some great things here. DERTOUZOS: I wish other people and organizations would follow your philanthropic lead. And thanks for this enjoyable and informative discussion. ============================================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 14:39:19 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:09:19 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] SOVEREIGN STATUS OF INDIA Message-ID: <3B73F217.214320C8@eth.net> Dear brothers and sisters Dear brothers and sisters, Kindly refer to the End User License Agreement (EULA) comes with microsoft products. I had gone through the ELUA of Microsoft Windows 98. It is clearly mentioned that the Software product is licensed, not sold. Please check up with other other Microsoft product. Government using software products and/or anything that requires a licence from a third party is a challenge to the SOVEREIGN status of INDIA and so is violation of THE CONSTITUTION OF INDIA. We must approach a court of law and retain the SOVEREIGN status of INDIA in accordance with our CONSTITUTION. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 14:32:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Anil Kumar) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 07:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] SOVEREIGN STATUS OF INDIA In-Reply-To: <3B73F217.214320C8@eth.net> Message-ID: Excellent point. This should be mentioned with due importance in FSF promotional materials prepared for India with enough references to substantiate it. On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, M Balakrishna Pillai wrote: > Dear brothers and sisters > Dear brothers and sisters, > > Kindly refer to the End User License Agreement (EULA) comes with > microsoft products. I had gone through the ELUA of Microsoft Windows > 98. It is clearly mentioned that the Software product is licensed, not > sold. Please check up with other other Microsoft product. > > > Government using software products and/or anything that requires a > licence from a third party is a challenge to the SOVEREIGN status of > INDIA and so is violation of THE CONSTITUTION OF INDIA. > > We must approach a court of law and retain the SOVEREIGN status of INDIA > in accordance with our CONSTITUTION. > > M.Balakrishna Pillai > _______________________________________________ > http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india > -- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 02:12:39 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 07:42:39 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [Q&A] Gates and Dertouzos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 at 11:00, Raj Singh wrote: Titans Talk Tech : Bill G. and Michael D. [...] Raj, Please be kind enough to restrain yourself from posting large chunks of quoted text to this list. Many users have by this time privately written to me to take some steps to prevent this. While we all believe in the freedom of expression and sharing of knowledge, this should seldom be construed as a licence to thrust upon unsolicited material on others in the pretext of the highest ideals of freedom and sharing. Your quest for sharing information with the community is all the more appreciated, but should you stoop to the level of spamming is a questionable thing, especially when internet provides for sharing information with least effort and resources by the simple intimation of the related URL. It might also be remembered that the search engines are at the disposal of all the subscribers in this list as you. Please dont take on the burden of teaching the community singularly on your shoulders, for, your shoulders will simply not bear it. Obviously, you need a thorough introspection of your strategies of community service. Dont get offended with the above, you make me reminded that I'm an old man mentally and chronologically.:) -- Radhakrishnan List Owner From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 07:26:17 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (K G Kumar) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:56:17 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Raj Singh's posts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010811124837.02e747f0@mail.myiris.com> --=======471F259======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7367626F; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed At 07:42 AM 8/11/01 +0530, Radi wrote: >Many users have by this time privately >written to me to take some steps to prevent this. Equally, there are others who have silently welcomed Raj Singh's posts which I, for one, find useful and informative. And is it really such a deluge as to clog up bandwidth? And terming his posts "spam" is a mite unfair. For those who don't agree, isn't it just a matter of deleting or filtering his posts? --=======471F259======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7367626F Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/01 --=======471F259=======-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 07:37:09 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:07:09 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Raj Singh's posts In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010811124837.02e747f0@mail.myiris.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 at 12:56, K G Kumar wrote: At 07:42 AM 8/11/01 +0530, Radi wrote: >Many users have by this time privately >written to me to take some steps to prevent this. Equally, there are others who have silently welcomed Raj Singh's posts which I, for one, find useful and informative. And is it really such a deluge as to clog up bandwidth? And Yes, an average post is 5K multiplied by 200 subscribers, again multiplied by 5 posts a day raising the mailserver load to 5000 K of 1000 mails in all. Cant this be reduced to 1K post with all five URL's which means 200K and 200 mails which serves the purpose well enough? KG: do you find the difference now? terming his posts "spam" is a mite unfair. For those who don't Perceptions differ, but verbatim quoting of whole documents already available in the internet is obviously not the optimal usage of the net and is aimed at spoiling the bandwidth, subscribers' diskspace that might derive juvenile pleasure for the poster. agree, isn't it just a matter of deleting or filtering his posts? True, people will be doing the very same thing, but even for that one has to pay to the ISP and DOT. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 08:36:19 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Mohit Agarwal) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 14:06:19 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Raj Singh's posts Message-ID: Today AT 12:56 +0530, K G Kumar wrote: > At 07:42 AM 8/11/01 +0530, Radi wrote: > >Many users have by this time privately > >written to me to take some steps to prevent this. > > Equally, there are others who have silently welcomed Raj Singh's > posts which I, for one, find useful and informative. And is it Well, it's not fair to conclude that those were silent did welcome his posts[*]. They were silent, after all, and you never know what was going on inside their *THICK* heads. > really such a deluge as to clog up bandwidth? And terming his posts IM(NS)HO, *YES*. > "spam" is a mite unfair. For those who don't agree, isn't it just a > matter of deleting or filtering his posts? Nice idea, thanks! Procmail is great, and GPL'd too ;-) mohit [*] Including the entire text in a message, esp. when it's available on the internet, is not a wise thing to do. And it becomes really foolish if somebody repeats it after being requested not to do so. You'll find several messages in the archives where somebody would just mention the URL, and that's it; e.g. http://gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-india/2001-August/000311.html and many more .. Quoting the entire text is not a bright idea. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 10:02:10 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Parag Mehta) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 03:02:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Raj Singh's posts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, my 2 cents : you cannot say the person is spamming. well the only thing here is the person should understand how valuable the bandwidth is. also the person should have some netiquettes. well i would suggest if there could be s et of list guidelines that can be put forth to the lsit and also as part of the welcome mail. if a user fails to follow the list rules he is banned from the list or something like that. i think for list rules Raju Manthur can forward the lig/lih list rules. best regards, parag mehta #exclude From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 10:52:47 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:22:47 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] HELP SOUGHT: Software for reading clubs... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear FSF-Indiaers: This may be a tall order. Was wondering if one could get some help from anyone on this list to build a small software program to help us with our tiny Magazines Initiative, a not-for-profit venture that is carried on here on a voluntary basis. This Initiative seeks to put local schools and clubs in touch with potential supporters abroad, who would donate about $100 per year (to any school or club of their choice) to enable the latter to get access to useful magazines. We calculate that with a $100 equivalent donation, any school can subscribe to 25-27 magazines each month, for one full year. This means that the students or club members have access to a wide range of quality reading material (general knowledge, science education, current affairs, news magazines, sports, even IT mags without CDs). The end goal is to widen the reading habit locally and give people access to useful and inexpensive information in this information-driven age. We are still at an early stage of the project. It has been going on intermittently for the past two years. So far, about half a dozen schools have been covered. Due to the considerable paperwork involved, it is difficult to replicate this scheme to more schools/clubs. Inspite of the fact that there are many willing to come forward with support for such institutions, when we put out appeals via the Internet, it takes time and energy to manually complete the paperwork... update the list of magazines, their subscription prices, etc. We feel that if we had some software, our work would be more effective, and coverage could be possibly increased. Does anyone agree with our goals? What is required is a software to undertake the following tasks: * Build a simple list (database?) of magazines available, their current subscription, address to where subscription money is to be sent, whether to be sent as DD/MO/etc, and special temporary subscription offers if any. (See details enlisted below.) * Build a 'DD-drafting software'. After a list of magazines is selected from the above module, it would immediately generate a statement to the bank, instructing the bank to create DDs in favour of specific parties (i.e. the magazine publishers), the amount of the DD, on which centres (Bombay, Delhi, etc) and the commission being charged by the bank. * Further, another module could keep a list of the schools/clubs being currently supported, list of the magazines they are receiving and uptil which date the magazines are subscribed till. This is for our records. * Lastly, another module could generate a report for the school -- intimating them which magazines they would be receiving, the details of the DD by which the payment was made (DD number and date) and when the DD was despatched by post. This is meant to ensure that the schools/clubs could take up cases of non-receipt of magazines, if any, directly with the publishers. Could any kind soul help us generate such a program? Our preferences are for a Linux-based software, and one that runs without XWindows (in terminal mode). I'm not a technical person, so don't know whether what I'm asking for makes sense in the first place. But if some students could take up this challenge as their college project, it would be great. Possibly, this software could be used by others in the country who want to take advantage of the large number of inexpensive magazines available across India... and also the crying need for people to get access to reading material at public centres. We could perhaps be able to offer a limited amount of financial support for those undertaking this work. Kindly note that ours is a wholly unfunded project, and zero-funds is spend on administrative charges for the same. Funding received is sent directly to the schools or clubs, and the aim is that every rupee goes towards a magazine subscription. We chose magazines instead of books because these tend to be more contemporary, have more utilitarian value, and are above all more inexpensive. If you feel this idea is worth persuing, do get in touch with me via fred@bytesforall.org Regards, Frederick Noronha Goa. PS: Below is a suggestion for the formats of some of the forms generated by the 'MagIni' (Magazine Initiative) software: #1 ========================================================================== LIST OF MAGAZINES AVAILABLE (This is a easy-to-read listing) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Serial No. Name of mag Address Description Price Special rates ========================================================================== NOTE: This requires to be updated regularly, as the subscription prices change without notice. In addition, one should have the facility to choose mags from this list, which would then generate the form below... This form should be printable (possibly as a txt file, or even generated into an email) so that it could be sent to schools who are not part of the project yet, and might want to understand what it involves. #2 ========================================================================== BANK DEMAND DRAFT 'DRAFTING' PRINTOUT -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Draft in favour of Place Rs Bank's commission TOTAL Rs Rs ========================================================================== NOTE: This form is generated after the magazines are ticked off (or selected in any other way) from the list above. This would minimise the monotony involved in calculating the budget required for a particular school, and also calculating the amount to be paid to the bank for the DDs and the bank's commission. This form too needs to be printable, or despatched via email to the bank. #3 ========================================================================== LIST OF SCHOOLS CURRENTLY PART OF THE MAGS. INITIATIVE SCHEME Name of school Magazines received Subscription valid till ========================================================================== NOTE: This is for our records. There could be some additional feature for alerting (via email?) when the mag subscriptions are drawing to an end. #4 ========================================================================== REPORT FOR INDIVIDUAL SCHOOLS Mags being subscribed DD No DD Date Posted to mag on date: ========================================================================== That's it. Simple or asking for too much? FN cls From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 12:33:43 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun Kumar.D) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:03:43 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Security concern for Free Softwares. Message-ID: <002901c12261$e0902640$0200a8c0@asianetindia.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C1228F.F5144AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, When the source code is distributed along with a software, anyone = can examine it. But if there are any security holes in them, won't they = be exploited by hackers? Won't this issue make free softwares insecure = for the common user?=20 Happy hacking :-) Best regards, Arun Kumar.D, Trivandrum. MSN - arun_k_d@msn.com ICQ - 113777906 ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C1228F.F5144AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
     
    Hi,
          When the = source code=20 is distributed along with a software, anyone can examine it. But if = there are=20 any security holes in them, won't they be exploited by hackers? Won't = this issue=20 make free softwares insecure for the common user?
     
    Happy hacking :-)
     
     
    Best regards,
     
    Arun Kumar.D,
    Trivandrum.
     
    MSN - arun_k_d@msn.com
    ICQ - 113777906
     
    ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C1228F.F5144AA0-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 13:33:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:03:08 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Korean Air Mission Critical Systems Moved to GNU/Linux Message-ID: Hi all, Korean Air has decided to move its flight-crew scheduling and daily accounting systems to GNU/Linux running on an IBM mainframe, and 5000 users will access this information through their browsers starting in September. This is a good anecdote for large implementation of a GNU/Linux. More details at http://www.zdnet.com/filters/printerfriendly/0,6061,2797645-35,00.html raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 14:12:22 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:42:22 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] My Apologies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Please be kind enough to restrain yourself from posting large chunks of > quoted text to this list. Done. For most of them, I did not have the URLs. -- Raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 14:56:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 11 Aug 2001 20:26:08 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Security concern for Free Softwares. In-Reply-To: <002901c12261$e0902640$0200a8c0@asianetindia.com> References: <002901c12261$e0902640$0200a8c0@asianetindia.com> Message-ID: <863d6yve5z.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> "Arun Kumar.D" writes: > Hi, When the source code is distributed along with a software, > anyone can examine it. But if there are any security holes in them, > won't they be exploited by crackers? Won't this issue make free > softwares insecure for the common user? On the contrary. Because of its very nature, Free Software gets subjected to a process of Peer Review far more robust than that for Proprietary Software. You see, because "anyone can examine" the source code, possible security holes in Free Software are detected and fixed far earlier, quicker and sooner than in Proprietary Software. Besides, looking at the source is not the only way of detecting security holes. Unless you have been hibernating for quite some time, you must be familiar with the recent and not-so-recent news reports of the numerous security holes detected in the products of a particularly notorious Proprietary Software company. The source code of these compromised products is not available and still the detection of security holes (by third parties) in these products has become a matter of routine. In addition, when a security hole is detected in any Free Software, it invariably gets fixed immediately, by anyone. Whereas, for a Proprietary Software program to be fixed, you are at the complete mercy of the program's manufacturer to fix it. In fact, if the hole in question is detected internally within the Proprietary Software company, they may not even bother to fix it unless the hole gets exploited! For more on the security risks of using Proprietary Software, please see: http://www.complete.org/fs/fsethics/html/node9.html -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 17:36:42 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:06:42 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Security concern for Free Softwares. References: <002901c12261$e0902640$0200a8c0@asianetindia.com> Message-ID: <3B756D2A.15CBBAFA@eth.net> > "Arun Kumar.D" wrote: When the source code is distributed along with a software, > anyone can examine it. But if there are any security holes in them, > won't they be exploited by hackers? > > Arun Kumar.D, > Trivandrum. Practical experience shows that they are fixed immediately in the case of FREE SOFTWARES and you have the liberty to rectify it. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 13 07:50:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Suraj Kumar S.) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:20:06 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] HELP SOUGHT: Software for reading clubs... In-Reply-To: ; from fred@bytesforall.org on Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 04:22:47PM +0530 References: Message-ID: <20010813132006.A23877@in.inapp.com> Hi all, The project proposed by Frederick Noronha would be really useful for a lot of educational institutions in India. He has put most of the requirements very clearly. Why don't we commission a project and start some system study on it, so that all the requirements are made clear. Iam ready to volunteer my spare time into it. -suraj -- GNU/Linux rulz! On Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 04:22:47PM +0530, Frederick Noronha wrote: > Dear FSF-Indiaers: > > This may be a tall order. Was wondering if one could get some help from > anyone on this list to build a small software program to help us with our > tiny Magazines Initiative, a not-for-profit venture that is carried on here > on a voluntary basis. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 13 08:12:45 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:42:45 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] A draft letter focusing on freedom Message-ID: <86bslk9y4i.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> --=-=-= Here's a draft of a letter which can be sent to the WB government. With slight modifications, this letter can be used to address any government planning a tie-up with any proprietary software company. Also, with slight modifications, this letter can be sent to editors of various newspapers. Please note that most newspapers give priority to printed letters either posted to or dropped at their offices. - Khuzaima --=-=-= Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=draft-letter Content-Description: Draft of a letter opposing the use of proprietary software We, the members of the Free Software community in India, are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans to base your complete e-governance infrastructure on a Proprietary Software company's products. The company in question is Microsoft (India), a wholly owned subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation based in Redmond, USA. The history of Microsoft has shown that it has nothing but contempt for its customers' rights. When you become a Microsoft customer, you surrender certain rights which are otherwise guaranteed by the constitutions of most democracies of the world. Since the Government has the duty to protect its citizens' constitutional rights, it would be unthinkable that your Government is about to surrender some of these rights to this multinational corporation. We urge you to consider our arguments presented in the rest of this letter in favour of adopting Free Software rather than Proprietary Software for all your e-governance and in fact all your Information Technology needs. In the rest of this letter, we will be referring to the term "Proprietary Software company" and "Microsoft" interchangeably, in the hope of conveying that all the ills and demerits which plague entering into a relationship with Microsoft also apply to any other Proprietary Software company. 1. Proprietary Software companies take away your freedom to access and modify the source code of the software or to modify the software in any other manner. This is akin to an automobile manufacturer selling you a car and telling you that it is illegal for you to open the bonnet and look at the engine's inner working. And that it is illegal for you to hire a private mechanic to service the engine. And that it is illegal for you to modify the car in any other manner. Would your Government buy a car with such restrictions? When applied to computer software, the above restriction has some very grave repercussions. In case of a flaw in the software (all computer software has flaws; and even more so with Proprietary Software) you are at the complete and total mercy of the Proprietary Software manufacturer. You do not have the option of hiring software engineers who may be capable of fixing the flaw. You do not even have the guarantee that the flaw will be fixed. All you can do is wait for the Proprietary Software manufacturer to fix the flaw (if at all) and release an updated version at a time of its own choosing. And then you have to pay for the entire updated version rather than just having to pay the cost of fixing the flaw. The other repercussion of the above restriction is related to customisation. Proprietary Software companies take away your right to customise the software as per your needs. It is unthinkable that a project as vast as state-wide e-governance can be accomplished without continuous customisation as per the changing needs of the Government and the people. Although a Proprietary Software company may initially supply you with a customised version of the software, you are again at the mercy of the company for any subsequent customisations that may be required. The Proprietary Software license forbids you to hire capable software engineers to do the customisation. Instead, you must request the company to provide the required customisation, offer large amounts of money unrelated to the task at hand and *hope* that the company will undertake the customisation work. Thus, the restriction on access to source code and modification of the software in any form, *permanently* binds you to the Proprietary Software company in a completely one-sided business relationship which has you at the complete mercy of the company. Considering that an e-Governance infrastructure is a public asset and that the company in this case, Microsoft, is a multinational corporation with profit as its sole motive and with no respect for its customers' rights, the above restrictions by themselves should make your proposed relationship with the said corporation unacceptable. Free Software does not have the above restrictions. All Free Software comes with full access to source code and with full permissions to modify or customise the software as you deem fit. 2. Proprietary Software companies have propagated the idea of software as a material object. They completely disregard the fact that the ability to access, copy and modify information is in fact the greatest boon of the Information Technology age. As a bizarre consequence of the Proprietary Software industry's idea of software as material object, obsolete copyright laws, which predate the IT age, are applied to software making it illegal to copy Proprietary Software. Besides the obvious economic ramification of the Proprietary Software company charging for each and every copy of the same piece of software, this also criminalises the otherwise absolutely innocent task of making a copy for another person's use. For instance, this makes a criminal out of a person who wishes to help his neighbour by copying and giving him a piece of software which he (the neighbour) needs for accomplishing some task. Proprietary Software, in effect, takes away an individual's freedom to do what he wishes to do with his software. We strongly feel that the State should have nothing to do with a business model which criminalises its citizens' innocent activities. Free Software does not place any legal restrictions on copying and distribution of software and, in fact, encourages the modification and redistribution of software for the betterment of society. 3. Most Proprietary Software uses "patented" technology and proprietary, non-standard, file and data formats. Some even forbid the reverse-engineering of their file formats, let alone reverse-engineering of the software itself. This is a grave risk with many repercussions. Proprietary file formats again put your Government at the total mercy of the Proprietary Software company. This implies that the stored data, which is otherwise the property of the Government, can only be accessed by the said Proprietary Software. This is totally unacceptable. At any given time, at the whims of the Proprietary Software company, you can lose your right to access your own data. Proprietary file and data formats are an impediment to the smooth and efficient exchange of information. It places undue hurdles in the process of exchanging information between diverse computing environments. Proprietary file formats are, by definition, non-transparent. Transparency should be the bedrock of an e-Governance infrastructure. In contrast to Proprietary Software, Free Software only uses open standards based file and data formats compatible across diverse computing environments. In addition to all the primary advantages of Free Software vis-a-vis Proprietary Software listed above, there are many other *derived* advantages such as security, reliability, stability and last but not the least, affordability. References for further information on Free Software: http://www.fsf.org http://www.fsf.org.in --=-=-=-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 13 08:45:50 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:15:50 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Photoes of RMS' visit Message-ID: <3B7793BE.2173C7D8@ti.com> I have uploaded some of the photoes of RMS' visit to Kerala. They are accessible from http://photos.yahoo.com/rkrishnan_m/ Click on rms-visit. -- Ramakrishnan M World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 13 16:30:36 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:00:36 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Govt Using GNU/Linux Message-ID: The city of Largo, Florida, USA is using GNU/Linux in all it's computer and saving bucket loads of tax payers money. more at http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/08/10/1441239 This has a pretty neat reports of the problems they faced and how they solved them. Good read to any one trying to get GNU system in offices. raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 13 19:47:36 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 01:17:36 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Sublists Message-ID: The following lists have been created: 1. fsf-edu@gnu.org.in Free Software in Education Please subscribe at: http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-edu 2. fsf-prog@gnu.org.in For programmers and technical discussion Please subscribe at: http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-prog 3. fsf-dev@gnu.org.in For projects and developer coordination Please subscribe at: http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-dev All are requested to direct posts relating to the above themes to the respective sublists and let us keep the main list for general announcement and discussion relating to philosphy, licences, etc., and of course flame wars. Hope this is OK for the moment. Any comments are welcome. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 14 05:08:46 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:38:46 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] DMCA Message-ID: <3B78B25E.739D9D1C@ti.com> http://www.anti-dmca.org/ -- Ramakrishnan M World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 14 06:33:23 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 14 Aug 2001 12:03:23 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Public-Funded Knowledge : Free v/s Commercial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86g0av5ex8.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raj Singh writes: > Similarly for NCST developed Hindi software. I understand that NCST > subsequently tied-up with Microsoft and this formed the kernel of Indian > language support touted by Microsoft for MS-Word in 1999. So, now the > government and Indian public is paying Microsoft for what (in some sense) > was developed with public money and "belongs" to them ! It's official. Microsoft launches Office XP in nine [Indian] languages. NCST is among the organisations which "worked with Microsoft on this initiative." http://www.hinduonnet.com/stories/0214000n.htm [Please note that the above URL will be valid only for today, Aug 14. The story can subsequently be accessed from The Hindu's archives.] -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 14 07:03:15 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satish Babu) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:33:15 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Another FUD tactic? Message-ID: This article says that Windows XP has a deliberately botched security model so that things will get worse (..than Code Red, I suppose), enabling M$ to say, "Hey, it is this TCP/IP that's the real problem. How about a new protocol, TCP/M$?"... http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010802.html From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 14 12:52:23 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Kanti Jadia) Date: 14 Aug 2001 12:52:23 -0000 Subject: [FSF India] Re:Draft Letter by Khuzaima A. Lakdawala Message-ID: <20010814125223.2478.qmail@mailweb32.rediffmail.com> We, the members of the Free Software community in India, are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans to base your complete e-governance infrastructure on a Proprietary Software company's products. The company in question is Microsoft (India), a wholly owned subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation based in Redmond, USA. The history of Microsoft has shown that it has nothing but contempt for its customers' rights. When you become a Microsoft customer, you surrender certain rights which are otherwise guaranteed by the constitutions of most democracies of the world. Since the Government has the duty to protect its citizens' constitutional rights, it would be unthinkable that your Government is about to surrender some of these rights to this multinational corporation. We urge you to consider our arguments presented in the rest of this letter in favour of adopting Free Software rather than Proprietary Software for all your e-governance and in fact all your Information Technology needs. In the rest of this letter, we will be referring to the term "Proprietary Software company" and "Microsoft" interchangeably, in the hope of conveying that all the ills and demerits which plague entering into a relationship with Microsoft also apply to any other Proprietary Software company. 1. Proprietary Software companies take away your freedom to access and modify the source code of the software or to modify the software in any other manner. This is akin to an automobile manufacturer selling you a car and telling you that it is illegal for you to open the bonnet and look at the engine's inner working. And that it is illegal for you to hire a private mechanic to service the engine. And that it is illegal for you to modify the car in any other manner. Would your Government buy a car with such restrictions? When applied to computer software, the above restriction has some very grave repercussions. In case of a flaw in the software (all computer software has flaws; and even more so with Proprietary Software) you are at the complete and total mercy of the Proprietary Software manufacturer. You do not have the option of hiring software engineers who may be capable of fixing the flaw. You do not even have the guarantee that the flaw will be fixed. All you can do is wait for the Proprietary Software manufacturer to fix the flaw (if at all) and release an updated version at a time of its own choosing. And then you have to pay for the entire updated version rather than just having to pay the cost of fixing the flaw. The other repercussion of the above restriction is related to customisation. Proprietary Software companies take away your right to customise the software as per your needs. It is unthinkable that a project as vast as state-wide e-governance can be accomplished without continuous customisation as per the changing needs of the Government and the people. Although a Proprietary Software company may initially supply you with a customised version of the software, you are again at the mercy of the company for any subsequent customisations that may be required. The Proprietary Software license forbids you to hire capable software engineers to do the customisation. Instead, you must request the company to provide the required customisation, offer large amounts of money unrelated to the task at hand and *hope* that the company will undertake the customisation work. Thus, the restriction on access to source code and modification of the software in any form, *permanently* binds you to the Proprietary Software company in a completely one-sided business relationship which has you at the complete mercy of the company. Considering that an e-Governance infrastructure is a public asset and that the company in this case, Microsoft, is a multinational corporation with profit as its sole motive and with no respect for its customers' rights, the above restrictions by themselves should make your proposed relationship with the said corporation unacceptable. Free Software does not have the above restrictions. All Free Software comes with full access to source code and with full permissions to modify or customise the software as you deem fit. --Shouldn't we specify that the changes have to be reverted back. Rest all is fine Kanti _________________________________________________________ For Rs. 2,000,000 worth of Aptech scholarships click below http://clients.rediff.com/clients/aptechsch/index.htm From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 14 17:57:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (T-Online) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:57:30 +0200 Subject: [FSF India] FSF/GNU Message-ID: <3B79668A.A0E3E1BB@T-Online.de> Please let me know what is FSF and GNU. I am ignorant of this short form or acronym. Once your explain I will react to engage with you or not. With best wishes, William From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 07:12:48 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (mcjayan) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:42:48 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Can we reduce number of mails? Message-ID: <003001c12559$b1ee8340$03000004@Chaithanya> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C12587.CA24B320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! Can we think of a way to reduce the number of mails coming to FSF = mailing list? I have recieved 4 mails before afternoon today from the FSF mailing = list. =20 It will be very useful if we can combine all these into a single = mail and send as one mail per day. This will help in consolidating all articles, news and = comments for a day in a single mail. Regards Jayakrishnan ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C12587.CA24B320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi!
     
        Can we think of a = way to reduce=20 the number of mails coming to FSF mailing list?
        I have recieved 4 = mails before=20 afternoon today from the FSF mailing list.
       
        It will be very = useful if=20 we can combine all these into a = single mail and=20 send as one
        mail per day. This = will help in=20 consolidating all articles, news and comments for a day
        in a single = mail.
     
    Regards
    Jayakrishnan
     
    ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C12587.CA24B320-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 07:04:11 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:34:11 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Can we reduce number of mails? In-Reply-To: <003001c12559$b1ee8340$03000004@Chaithanya> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 at 12:42, mcjayan wrote: It will be very useful if we can combine all these into a single mail and send as one mail per day. This will help in consolidating all articles, news and comments for a day in a single mail. You can reconfigure your subscription options and change to digest mode so that mailman will send you all the posts as a daily digest. Please check at: http://gnu.org.in/listinfo/fsf-india and go the the bottom where you need to enter your email id in the textbox against the edit options button. Click it and follow the instructions. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 08:14:40 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Suraj Kumar S.) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:44:40 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Can we reduce number of mails? In-Reply-To: <003001c12559$b1ee8340$03000004@Chaithanya>; from mcjayan@sify.com on Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 12:42:48PM +0530 References: <003001c12559$b1ee8340$03000004@Chaithanya> Message-ID: <20010815134440.A29562@in.inapp.com> Hello, The possible option would be that you subscribe to daily digest, so that you get only one mail a day. You can change your settings at http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india Go to the end of this page and login with your email address, and change the "Set Digest Mode" setting to ON. -suraj On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 12:42:48PM +0530, mcjayan wrote: > Hi! > > Can we think of a way to reduce the number of mails coming to FSF mailing list? > I have recieved 4 mails before afternoon today from the FSF mailing list. > > It will be very useful if we can combine all these into a single mail and send as one > mail per day. This will help in consolidating all articles, news and comments for a day > in a single mail. > > Regards > Jayakrishnan > From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 07:39:49 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:09:49 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] FSF/GNU In-Reply-To: <3B79668A.A0E3E1BB@T-Online.de> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, T-Online wrote: > Please let me know what is FSF and GNU. Please see www.gnu.org for an explanation. > Once your explain I will react to engage with you or not. This list is basically for the issues wrt FSF and India. raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 10:22:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Sathya) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Tv Program on Stallman Message-ID: <20010815102228.37832.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, We have produced a 1 hour special programme on Richard stallman and his ideals. the programme is called "st.INGUcious in India". The programme will be telecast in the following times on following days, fotrward the mail to the concerned. Original telecast - 19th august 9:10 PM Repeat telecast - 20 th August 1:10 AM, 8:10 AM and 5:10 PM and one more last telecast will be on 21 August at 5:10 AM. I thank FSF-India people who co-operated with our corresondent David in trivandrum. Sathya Prakash Peddy News Producer TMG Enter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 10:47:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Sathya) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Stallman Tv programme ..more details Message-ID: <20010815104706.85615.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Sorry i forgot to give tye crucial detail.. the programme willl be telecast on TMG Enter television channel, the only technology channel in south asia. if you are not gettingbthe channel now, coax your cable operator to give it to you. We have produced a 1 hour special programme on Richard stallman and his ideals. the programme is called "st.INGUcious in India". The programme will be telecast in the following times on following days, fotrward the mail to the concerned. Original telecast - 19th august 9:10 PM Repeat telecast - 20 th August 1:10 AM, 8:10 AM and 5:10 PM and one more last telecast will be on 21 August at 5:10 AM. I thank FSF-India people who co-operated with our corresondent David in trivandrum. Sathya Prakash Peddy News Producer TMG Enter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 05:04:07 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (narayanan sathya) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Public-Funded Knowledge : Free v/s Commercial Message-ID: <20010816050407.63206.qmail@web14202.mail.yahoo.com> It is distressing to know how MNCs like Microsoft to control the rest of the software economy of the world. The HINDI software is just one example. Similar is the story of most of the software exporters in India. We are always confined to some kind of software services. Even software design and coding is ultimately become a service to the MNCs who always anjoys the long term benefits by integrating the bricks made by high caliber software coolies of India. Even for a software patent (if at all required) we need to go to U.S! See more thought on this topic at http://indiaforward.com/knsabu1.htm It is certain that to counter the crooked designs of such political economy, we need teamwork of openminded intelligentsia who believe that technology and knowledge is for solving problems and not creating just money and wealth alone, without addressing the basic human issues. K N Sabu ER&DCI (T) ===== ........................................................ We make a living by what we get; a life by what we give. ........................................................ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 06:54:50 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Varghese B George) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:24:50 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] (no subject) Message-ID: <200108160654.f7G6so224962@mailhub.xstreamindia.co.in> From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 05:56:49 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 16 Aug 2001 11:26:49 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re:Draft Letter by Khuzaima A. Lakdawala In-Reply-To: <20010814125223.2478.qmail@mailweb32.rediffmail.com> References: <20010814125223.2478.qmail@mailweb32.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <86bslglf8e.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> "Kanti Jadia" writes: > Free Software does not have the above restrictions. All Free Software > comes with full access to source code and with full permissions to > modify or customise the software as you deem fit. > > --Shouldn't we specify that the changes have to be reverted back. Dear Kanti, Further down, at the end of point 2, the letter states: Free Software does not place any legal restrictions on copying and distribution of software and, in fact, encourages the modification and redistribution of software for the betterment of society. Does this reasonably address your query? Yes, I know I am *fudging* it a little by not mentioning the GPL and its requirement "that the changes *have* to be" given back to the Free Software community. If you feel very strongly about this, please feel free to add/insert this requirement in the letter before using it. Regards, Khuzaima From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 07:20:48 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Varghese B George) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:50:48 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Linux'ising Kerala's Villages Message-ID: <200108160720.f7G7Kmk25065@mailhub.xstreamindia.co.in> Hello All. There has been lots of mails and discussion to stop M$'ising WB. How about convincing "Gods Own Country"-Kerala's villagers to start using Linux? A District Co-operative Bank in Pathanamthitta is going to start computerising. Their requirements are modest, a 4 client computer and a server network configuration to run a custom banking software for their dily needs. They do not have any knowledge in using computers, so they dont need to 'unlearn' M$ Windows. Once this bank has been succesfully computerised, other similar banks will follow suit. A representative of this bank had asked me for advice on these matters. I would like to know how to proceed from here. They would also need a Customised Banking Software (in Malayam maybe???) to manage their accounts. -- Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware. Varghese B George XStream Software From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 08:19:02 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:49:02 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re:Draft Letter by Khuzaima A. Lakdawala In-Reply-To: <86bslglf8e.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in>; from klak@giasbm01.vsnl.net.in on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:26:49AM +0530 References: <20010814125223.2478.qmail@mailweb32.rediffmail.com> <86bslglf8e.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <20010816134902.A638@mailandnews.com> On Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:26:49AM +0530, Khuzaima A. Lakdawala wrote: > > its requirement "that the changes *have* to be" given back to the Free > Software community. Only if you want to publish (distribute) the changed software. GPL dosen't insist that all modifications be distributed in the first place, although it is encouraged (and a very good thing to do). bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 09:53:20 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 16 Aug 2001 15:23:20 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re:Draft Letter by Khuzaima A. Lakdawala In-Reply-To: <20010816134902.A638@mailandnews.com> References: <20010814125223.2478.qmail@mailweb32.rediffmail.com> <86bslglf8e.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <20010816134902.A638@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: <86snescovj.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Pappu writes: > > its requirement "that the changes *have* to be" given back to the Free > > Software community. > Only if you want to publish (distribute) the changed software. GPL dosen't > insist that all modifications be distributed in the first place, although > it is encouraged (and a very good thing to do). I stand corrected. Also, (this is addressed to Kanti) there are many other non-copyleft licenses (http://www.fsf.org/licenses/license-list.html) which are perfectly *good* Free Software licenses from a user's perspective. Hence, it is best to keep our letter license-neutral and not mention the GPL and its requirements. - Khuzaima From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 17 05:54:47 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:24:47 +0530 Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: References: <1170.192.168.0.4.997336758.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: <20010817112447.A2145@debianut.ekmnet> [Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:52:46AM +0530] Radhakrishnan CV : > I will agree with Raju on the draft letter since we are > talking to the political leadership of a state government > who are all well aware of the values of freedom and democracy. You are patently wrong ! Yesterday the deal was signed by the West Bengal Govt. and M$. We have to talk to the political leadership about the value of *free* software and the *freedom* that it brings along, all the more. The technical issues can wait and are not that pressing :( Better still, we shall not go on talking to the political leadership; we shall go to the schools and start our work amongst the students. We shall tell them about recipes, elephants and a small peg on the ground, about the jailing of Dmitry, about Prof. Felten and more. -- GPG: 1024D/F1624A6E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 07:35:47 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:05:47 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Can we reduce number of mails? In-Reply-To: <003001c12559$b1ee8340$03000004@Chaithanya> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, mcjayan wrote: > It will be very useful if we can combine all these into a single > mail and send as one mail per day. This will help in consolidating > all articles, news and comments for a day in a single mail. Please visit http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india and select the digest mode raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 17 13:56:09 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (TUGIndia) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:26:09 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] TUG 2002 Message-ID: Please visit: http://www.tugindia.org.in/tug2002/ which has more information on the International Conference of TeX Users Group, here in Trivandrum during September 2002. Trivandrum happens to witness more events relating to Free Software.:) Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 18 04:16:05 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 18 Aug 2001 09:46:05 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Friends in unexpected places Message-ID: <868zgim29m.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> It seems we have friends in the most unexpected places: A resolution adopted by the BSNL Employees Union State formation conference in Kannur, Kerala, [also] urged the BSNL as well as the State and Central Governments to use and encourage the use of free non patented softwares with open source code as part of developing practical alternatives to colonial interests in the sector. Extremely heart warming, to say the least! I couldn't find the full story on The Hindu's web site. It's on Page 4, today's Kochi edition. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 05:34:37 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 21 Aug 2001 11:04:37 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Code Red: it can happen here Message-ID: <868zge0ydu.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Here is an example of the dangers of citing "security" *benefits* while advocating the use of Free Software: http://www.securityfocus.com/frames/?content=/templates/column.html?id=17 The marketing types from the Proprietary Software industry will easily *rubbish* our arguments based on these "hard facts." It is of paramount importance that our advocacy be based on Freedom First! -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 09:34:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (KG Kumar) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:34:56 -0000 Subject: [FSF India] (no subject) Message-ID: <200108210934.PAA17094@myiris.com> Check out Brad Kuhn's and RMS' response ("Freedom or Power" http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/08/15/free_software.html) to Tim O'Reilly's "Freedom Zero" in the O'Reilly Network (http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/526) followed by Eric Raymond on "Freedom, Power, or Confusion?" ________________________________________________________________ This message was sent using Myiris Mail For more information visit http://mail.myiris.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 09:38:34 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (KG Kumar) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:38:34 -0000 Subject: [FSF India] FS debate Message-ID: <200108210938.PAA17397@myiris.com> Check out Brad Kuhn's and RMS' response ("Freedom or Power" http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/08/15/free_software.html) to Tim O'Reilly's "Freedom Zero" in the O'Reilly Network (http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/526) followed by Eric Raymond on "Freedom, Power, or Confusion?" ________________________________________________________________ This message was sent using Myiris Mail For more information visit http://mail.myiris.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 13:59:17 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:29:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Malayalam support for GNU/Linux Message-ID: GNU/Linux system can now support Malayalam. Today a team of developers in FreeDevelopers.net (India) have successfully implemented Malayalam support in Pango and an input module for gtk which can support Hellingman's Malayalam Transliteration Schema. Jeroen Hellingman is the man who wrote a TeX package, input scheme and a free Malayalam font using Metafont language. However, the metafont sources can only create rastor fonts that are fit for usage in a TeX system, we need to write our own fonts for using in GNU/Linux. The software used are gtk+-1.3.5, pango-0.16. The sources will be released soon. A screen shot can be had at: http://www.tugindia.org.in/malayalam/malayalam.jpg Its is just in alpha stage and you can expect a few bugs. Comments are welcome. Congratulations to the young developers of FD (India). -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 15:16:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Titty Jacob) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Wired News :Linux Comes to the Big Screen Message-ID: <200108211516.IAA06089@fastbreak.hotwired.com> From Wired News, available online at: http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,41536,00.html Linux Comes to the Big Screen by Michelle Delio 2:00 a.m. Feb. 1, 2001 PST Linux is more than just an alternative operating system. It's also a culture with its own ethics, gods, myths and heroes. A new film, Revolution O.S., explores the human side of the open source and free software movements, telling the inside story of the hackers and programmers rebelling against the corporate machine. Revolution O.S. also depicts the culture of the open source movement by documenting the Installfest parties where people can bring their computers to get free, expert Linux tech support, and the Refund Day protest marches, where Linux users demand reimbursement of the extra fees that get tacked onto the purchase price of new computers for pre-installed Microsoft applications. Revolution O.S. was made by J.T.S. Moore, who was totally unfamiliar with the open source community when he started the project. "It wasn't my idea," Moore said. "One day in June 1999, I was talking on the phone to a good friend from Stanford, Doug Bone. He had seen my various films and videos over the years, and out of the blue, he jokingly suggested I make a documentary about the history of Linux." Moore looked into it and decided there was a great tale to be told about the people behind the software, a story rich with colorful personalities, creation and conflicts. In an attempt to reflect the complicated culture he captured in his project, Moore bills Revolution O.S. as an "epic movie," and said that his one regret was that he didn't have enough money to hire Charlton Heston to narrate the film. "Charlton Heston is a national treasure," Moore said. "I think any man who had the vision to star in Planet of the Apes, Omega Man and Soylent Green deserves respect. The bottom line is that if you love individual liberty you have to admire Charlton Heston." Not that the movie needs Heston to establish itself as a bona fide epic, said Moore, because at its core, "the open source movement is about hundreds of thousands of hackers and programmers around the world trying to throw off the yoke of the most powerful corporation on Earth." "If that's not epic, I don't know what is." To capture what he saw as the nature of open source's ideas and struggle, Moore worked with the old Hollywood epic format of anamorphic 35mm film (Cinemascope). Most documentaries are shot in a square format to fit TV screens, but Revolution O.S. is shot in the wide, rectangle format of the movie theater. Moore chose to work with film because "despite the delusional hype of the digital video community," he believes that 35mm film is superior to DV, at least for the intermediate future. "Also, shooting in DV breeds bad habits and yields an inferior image," Moore said. "Filmmakers shooting in DV tend to shoot staggering amounts of footage because it's cheap -- not because it's necessary. Ultimately, DV will probably trump 35mm film, but I will wait to use the format until it is undeniably better in terms of quality." "Don't get me wrong, no one is gonna mistake my cinematography in Revolution O.S. for a slick Hollywood film, but at least it doesn't have the amateur porno aesthetic of DV." The 90-minute film begins with Richard Stallman's quest to create a free operating system. It then follows the movement through its two decades-long evolution in interviews with Stallman, Linus Torvalds, Eric Raymond (author of The Cathedral and The Bazaar), Bruce Perens, (author of the Open Source Definition), Brian Behlendorf (leader of the Apache Web server project), Michael Tiemann (founder of the first open source company) and Larry Augustin (founder of VA Linux Systems). Moore has worked as a screenwriter for Disney and has had his work appear at the Telluride Film Festival and on the Encore cable channel. Revolution O.S. is his first feature-length documentary and, Moore said, it was the most challenging creative project. He wrote, directed, produced, photographed, and edited Revolution O.S. At the end of the project Moore found he'd turned into an open source advocate –- but with some reservations. Moore thinks the open source development model is here to stay, but is not convinced it will become completely dominant. He believes that it will probably co-exist with the closed source model. Eric Raymond, in a piece of writing that is widely acknowledged to define the ethics and rational of the open source and free software community, uses two cultural structures, the cathedral and the bazaar as a metaphor to describe the virtues of open source. Comparing the isolated model of the cathedral with the "babbling complexity" of the bazaar, Raymond makes a case for the seemingly chaotic marketplace as the cornerstone of a stable and resourceful economy and society. But Moore also sees in Raymond's metaphor an example of the virtue of the closed source model. "While bazaars are vibrant, fast-paced, evolving environments, a cathedral can be a stunningly beautiful creation of enduring purpose that lasts 1,000 years. As someone who approaches intellectual property rights from the artistic side, the cathedral model has its appeal," Moore said. Moore thinks the biggest threat to the success of the open source movement is piracy, not Microsoft. "If the voluntary ideals of the open source movement are further corrupted by a subculture of intellectual property theft, then the whole movement will be tainted. The owners of intellectual property will continue to fight the movement rather than cooperate with it." Moore believes that while many are convinced open source will give rise to new business models based on service and a culture of celebrity, the creators of intellectual property should have the option to participate in these new business models rather than being forced into "a communist manner because some people figure that if they can copy something then it's fair game to steal it." Revolution O.S. will be sneak-previewed Thursday night at Manhattan's AMC Empire 25 Theater, at 8:30. Those attending LinuxWorld this week can pick up tickets at the OSDN booth (#3000) in the dot-org pavilion. The first public screening of the film will be at the SXSW Film Festival in Austin, Texas, on March 12. Moore said people who would like to see the film should feel free to call "and pester" film distributors such as Miramax, Lions Gate in Los Angeles, and Cowboy Booking International in New York. "If enough people say they want to see the film, maybe they will distribute it," Moore said. Moore also noted that most of the film was financed via his Visa card. "So, if anyone wants to buy the film and get me out of debt, know that I will entertain any reasonable offer," he said, in true open source spirit. Related Wired Links: Pirates Beware: We're Watching Jan. 3, 2001 Pirates Beware: We're Watching Jan. 3, 2001 Pirates Beware: We're Watching Jan. 3, 2001 Proud to Represent Hackers Oct. 19, 2000 Africa: The Linux Continent? Sep. 22, 2000 Africa: The Linux Continent? Sep. 22, 2000 Copyright (C) 1994-2001 Wired Digital Inc. All rights reserved. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 17:53:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Anil Kumar) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Malayalam support for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Awesome! Congratulations to the team. Radi, why don't you reveal the names of the people worked on it? Anil On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Radhakrishnan CV wrote: > > GNU/Linux system can now support Malayalam. > > Today a team of developers in FreeDevelopers.net (India) have > successfully implemented Malayalam support in Pango and an input > module for gtk which can support Hellingman's Malayalam > Transliteration Schema. Jeroen Hellingman is the man who wrote a TeX > package, input scheme and a free Malayalam font using Metafont > language. However, the metafont sources can only create rastor fonts > that are fit for usage in a TeX system, we need to write our own > fonts for using in GNU/Linux. > > The software used are gtk+-1.3.5, pango-0.16. The sources will be > released soon. A screen shot can be had at: > > http://www.tugindia.org.in/malayalam/malayalam.jpg > > Its is just in alpha stage and you can expect a few bugs. Comments > are welcome. > > Congratulations to the young developers of FD (India). > > -- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 17:22:19 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:52:19 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Malayalam support for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Radhakrishnan CV wrote: > Today a team of developers in FreeDevelopers.net (India) have > successfully implemented Malayalam support in Pango and an input > module for gtk which can support Hellingman's Malayalam > Transliteration Schema. This is a great news! Congratulations to all involved!! raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 20 19:48:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 01:18:00 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Education - success and failure Message-ID: Hi, here are ywo links, one at Fort Collins, Colorado, where they are going to install GNU/Linux, interestingly managed remotely by parents and local user group. http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,45862,00.html Next is the news that Mexican schools are embracing Windows. It is a must read to see why an ambitious experiment failed and what it can teach us http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,45737,00.html As an aside, Linux for schools project is at http://www.lfsp.org/ raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 00:00:15 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Loic Dachary) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:00:15 +0200 Subject: [FSF India] FSF France activity report Message-ID: <15234.62991.83780.393060@dachary.org> Hi, The FSF France activity report for June-July-August has just been published. You can read it at: http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-08-20-01.en.html FSF France activity report The [1]FSF Europe presence in France exists since April 12 2001, and produced an [2]activity report covering April and May 2001. This report covers June, July and August 2001. If some subjects are obscure, you can get back to the previous report to better understand them. We took care to keep the same headlines to ease cross reference. During those three months we established many contacts, informally or on actual actions, with Free Software organization or individuals around the world. All of them were possible thanks to APRIL (national), FSF (international) and FSF Europe (European). Our actions can now extend to Portugal, Spain, Italy, United Kingdom, Luxembourg, Sweden, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, Denmark, South Africa, Japan, China, Hungaria, Czech Republic, India, Korea, Mexico, United States and Canada. We attended to events, the most important being [3]LSM and produced a sustained advocacy effort coordinated with other organizations. Actions previously engaged (Savannah, Savannah and Europe, freedoms, GPL translation, GNU information, Technopole Logiciel Libre) made significant progress. New actions were also started (patents, education, science, electronic voting, press review, GNU and Debian), most of them mainly undertaken by associate organizations. Our involvement in the GNU project grew with contributions to the web standards, the fact that the machine is now used as a secondary DNS for the gnu.org domain, evaluation of candidate GNU packages and heavy contribution to the maintainance and evolution of [4]Savannah. We also benefit from the infrastructure of the GNU project since our domain, mailing lists, CVS tree etc. are hosted on other GNU machines. Political and legal actions are also doing fine since we had opportunities to stress the importance of legal protection of Free Software, met with government officials occasionally. To be completely honest we cannot really claim a noteworthy achivement on this front. Last but not least, it is now established that FSF France activity is ruled by a steady flow of volunteers, contributing their time in occasional burst and happy enthusiasm. Around ten volunteers motivated themselves to fight for Free Software with us in the past three months. This may seem very few people and yet we achieved to do a significant amount of work. Nowadays every good will counts and your action can really make the difference, as long as you can spare some time to drink a beer or relax between two sessions. We want to keep going in the long term and this requires a bit of fun from time to time. On cooperation The collaborative spirit described in the [5]previous report is certainly our most pro-eminent achievement. Our motto could be that we don't undertake actions alone. It is better not to undertake an action if we fail to actually cooperate with Free Software movement people and organizations already involved. Although this spirit makes sense in writing it requires a significant amount of effort. The syndrome of replicating effort does not only apply to software. Organizations also have a natural tendency to undertake new projects before searching for similar efforts, before actually engaging a dialog with people involved, before trying everything to cooperate. The bandwidth of the brain is significantly higher than the bandwidth of the mail. If all the dialog needed to start a new project occurs in the brain of a single person, the project will take off rapidly, the first version will be available fast and bring some results within days. When you extend the dialog to other people and organizations, it gets significantly slower at first. Only later does it become faster and stronger. Yes, union is a force but it works slower and is not fit for the impatient. A fairly good example is our involvement in the infrastructure of the GNU project. From the beginning we started with the idea that all our technical infrastructure should use and contribute to the infrastructure of the GNU project. The advantages are pretty obvious: why run and maintain Mailman, exim, ftp server, web server, CVS when those are already available and maintained by the GNU project ? The drawbacks are also pretty obvious: understanding the infrastructure of the GNU project, contribute to it so that it fits our needs introduces a significant bootstrap delay. The machine we installed in France is now fully integrated to the GNU project, meaning that it is monitored and maintained by the GNU project. This a win for us. It also runs the secondary DNS for gnu.org domains. This is a win for the GNU project. Mailing lists and web site for FSF Europe are managed by machines in Boston. This is win for us. People involved in the system administration of the machine in France know the infrastructure of the GNU project and can contribute to the maintainance of other machines. This a win for the GNU project. This may seem an example that is of no great consequence but in our eyes it reflects the essence of cooperation. It's slower but it makes us stronger. This example is also chosen on purpose because we believe that technical heterogeneity is often the first obstacle to cooperation on non technical matters. Say, for instance, that two Free Software organizations want to share their calendars to coordinate their political actions. If they use technical tools that are significantly different it may prove inconvenient for them to actually do it. We are not saying that it is a major problem, we are not saying that everybody should use the exact same tools or nothing. We only acknowledge that cooperation on a technical infrastructure is a win/win situation that also removes an obstacle for cooperation on non technical matters. Given the fact that we have scarce resources at all time, there is no reason to discard this advantage. Projects [6]Translation of the GNU GPL in French ([7]previous report). Interviews of [8]Mélanie Clément-Fontaine (french, 19 May 2001), and [9]Benjamin Drieu (french, 17 May 2001) about the translation of the GNU GPL were conducted to keep people informed of the progress made so far. Till Jaeger and Axel Metzger, two German lawyers in contact with the FSF Europe are also following and participating to this project. They are working on launching a similar effort in their country. During the [10]Libre Software Meeting in Bordeaux, Eben Moglen came to express his vision of the future of the GPL. A workshop involving Mélanie Clément Fontaine, Eben Moglen, Bradley M. Kuhn, Anne Østergaard and around twenty people interested in the subject allowed to clarify very important points. Eben Moglen stressed the fact that it is important that the translation matches the following constraints: + It must not be used as a legally binding license, it must remain informative, the English version being the only one that has a legal force. + It must not be bound to contract law Volunteers: Mélanie Clément-Fontaine, Benjamin Drieu, Frédéric Couchet, Olivier Berger, Sebastien Blondeel, Loïc Dachary, Till Jaeger, Axel Metzger. [11]Patents APRIL (FSFE associate organization) launched a call for action to encourage people to act against patents. They propose specific actions and provide all the material needed to strongly react against the report given to the french government that is in favor of software patents. Late June, Richard M. Stallman was in Paris and proposed an idea for a [12]program against software patents to Jacques Le Marois (CEO of Mandrake). On the subject of patents we follow the lead of APRIL and AFUL. Volunteers: Frédéric Couchet, Jérôme Dominguez. [13]The four freedoms ([14]previous report) A steady flow of people are participating. Volunteers: Raphaël Rousseau, Loïc Dachary. [15]Education Hilaire Fernandes and other volunteers joined the GNU project and created the [16]education section of the GNU project. They established contact with Canadian and Chinese activists involved in providing Free Software for educational purposes. Hilaire published an [17]essay (in french) about Free Software and education. Verbatim copy is permitted and encouraged. It also contains a detailed history of the Free Software movement. On the subject of education we follow the lead of OFSET. Many people are involved and their actions deserves an independent activity report. Volunteers: [18]savannah list [19]Science Joris Van der Hoven initiated an APRIL working group to support Free Software in science. He works for a french university himself and advocates that software made while conducting a research financed by the government should be released as Free Software. The very spirit of research does not fit well with the restrictions imposed by proprietary licenses. Besides, citizens are not too happy when they have to finance the research and buy the product when it is released. A list was created ([20]fsfe-france-sci@gnu.org) to discuss this subject. Volunteers: Joris Van der Hoven, Gilles Veillon, Jeremy Nestel, Jérôme Pansanel [21]Community Positioning System (Coposys). Olivier Berger [22]proposed a project to visualize Free Software friends around the globe. Cyril Bouthors [23]implemented and installed a first version and hundreds of people registered from all over the world. Volunteers: Cyril Bouthors, Olivier Berger. [24]Electronic Voting An information page on electronic voting issues was produced to highlight the importance of Free Software in these matter. We do not have the ambition to spend time to try to solve this enormous problem at present. We merely keep in touch with french people interested in the subject and store information. Volunteers: Olivier Berger, Loïc Dachary. [25]Press Review Nicole Ciry and Gilles Veillon launched the project of gathering french articles about Free Software. They produced a methodology, explained it in a web page and gather a copy of the first articles. Those articles are sent once a month to the FSF in Boston and the first shipment was made early July. Volunteers: Nicole Ciry, Gilles Veillon. GNU project information relay (was GNU help desk) ([26]previous report) In the previous report this was listed as GNU help desk which was kind of inaccurate. The proximity of french people involved in the GNU project makes it easier for other french people to get involved in the GNU project, in a way or another. Some developers come to us for various points related to the GNU project: + A software they wrote is being evaluated for inclusion in the GNU project. These requests are handled thru [27]the fsfe-eval@gnu.org mailing list. + They wrote a software and wonder what it means to become part of the GNU project. + They would like to help in the system administration of the GNU project. + They have an idea to improve the infrastructure of the GNU project. We had many contacts are related to these points. Here are the two most pro-eminent. Loïc Dachary got involved in the evaluation of a software that wanted to become part of the GNU project ([28]phpGroupWare). It was the occasion for him to get practical experience of this process in order to better answer questions. A pretty [29]long thread regarding the rationale of the evaluation process and other issues related to GNU was launched by Denis Barbier. His critic views and comparisons with the Debian process are very valuable, specially since he is not a member of the GNU project. To be completely honest no visible modifications of the GNU project are a direct consequence of this discussion. Mainly because Loïc Dachary is postponing this for no other reason than lack of time. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary. GNU and Debian French people involved in the GNU, Debian and FreeBSD project [30]met to drink a beer and share their experiences. This was a chance to know each other and discover possible cooperation grounds. No report of this meeting is available, unfortunately. We had another opportunity to meet and discuss during the [31]LSM since the [32]Debian conference 1 was hosted by LSM. As a direct consequence of these talks, some concrete things happened. That may not be all, but that is what we are aware of. + Loïc Dachary who is a [33]member of the GNU project also became a [34]Debian developer + Igor Genibel who is a [35]Debian developer also became a [36]member of the GNU project. + Martin Michlmayr, a leading force of the [37]Debian QA group (re)joined the [38]GNU project to improve the QA of GNU with the help of the Debian tools. Of course we discussed a lot about the philosophical issues that keep the GNU and Debian organizations apart. The GNU project would like to see the explicit support of non free software removed from the Debian social contract and identification of the software packages in the main part of Debian that do not qualify as Free Software according to GNU. Solving these issues is an on-going effort on both sides. The Debian community also has some claims for the GNU project and [39]Denis Barbier voiced some of them. Volunteers: Raphaël Rousseau, Loïc Dachary, Olivier Berger. [40]Technopole Logiciel Libre ([41]previous report) Frédéric Couchet maintains good relationships with the Technopole Logiciel Libre. A result of this cooperation was the interview of Philippe Carpentier on Internet actu video newspaper. The Technopole Logiciel Libre was also invited to [42]LSM where Philippe Carpentier made a speech to explain the goals and philosophy of the project. Philippe Carpentier proposed to launch a European contest for Free Software and is working on this idea with Frédéric Couchet. Volunteers: Frédéric Couchet, Loïc Dachary, Philippe Carpentier, Pierre Jarret [43]Savannah and Europe: CoopX ([44]previous report) The contacts we had with hosting platforms similar to [45]Savannah in France triggered the creation of a working group called [46]CoopX. The goal of this working group is to define an interchange format between hosting platforms. [47]SourceForge, [48]phpGroupWare joined the working group shortly after its creation. CoopX was also pleased to welcome [49]TuxFamily, a cooperatively run hosting facility run by french volunteers. Although we are a founding member of CoopX, the project itself is neither hosted nor ruled by us. It is a strictly cooperative effort and every group willing to participate actively is welcome. Even non free software groups, as long as the format is decided cooperatively and released under a license that has the same qualities as the GNU FDL. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary, Christian Bac, Samuel Tardieu, Dan Kuykendall, Tim Perdue and many others. Links with Free Software organizations In the network of Free Software organizations we actively worked to establish contacts in order to be able to actually do things in a coordinated way. The ideal situation would be that each organization in a given geographical location is able quickly establish contact with any other organization over the world for a given action related to education, software development or political issues. The following list is a map of the network involving at least one person from FSF France or APRIL. * [50]FSF. * [51]FSF Europe. * [52]FSF Canada. * [53]FSF India. * [54]FSF China. * FSF Japan. * [55]AFSM. * [56]GNU Spain. * [57]ABUL. * [58]ALDIL. * [59]ALL. * [60]AGIL. * [61]Associazione Software Libero. * [62]AAUL. At present we cannot claim any world wide coordinated action but we sincerely hope it will happen, on the subject of patents for instance. Do you want to take the lead ?-) FSF France is tightly bound to APRIL and we had four meetings in the past three months. Two meeting reports are available. * [63]July 23 2001 * [64]June 12 2001 A Free Software organization ([65]AGIL) is being created in Portugal. A lot of discussions with APRIL were engaged to share their experience. A similar dialog is being established with Masayuki Ida to create a Free Software organization in Japan. Masayuki Ida will be visiting France in October and he wants to meet with APRIL activists on this subject. Matthias Saou, former president of the french organization ALDIL moved to Spain recently and agreed to act as a liaison with Jose Marchesi and GNU Spain. GNU project ([66]previous report) [67]Usenix award During the 2001 Usenix conference in Boston, Robert Chassel received an award in the name of all the contributors to the GNU project. We are proud to broadcast this award to all the people who contributed to the GNU project thru FSF France recently, by installing the first machine of the GNU project outside the US (fr.fsf.org) or by contributing to the hardware upgrade of Savannah (savannah.gnu.org). [68]Sysadmin fr.fsf.org Rodolphe Quiedeville, Cedric Valignat and Jean-Louis Bergamot are also doing occasional system administration on the GNU machine in France and were very efficient when handling a minor security alert. Cedric is now taking care of the Internet connection of the GNU machine in France and is in contact with Joel N Weber II for this purpose. Volunteers: Rodolphe Quiedeville, Cedric Valignat, Jean-Louis Bergamot, Loïc Dachary, Joel N. Weber II, Frédéric Couchet. [69]Savannah ([70]previous report) The [71]installation of the new hardware allowed Savannah to grow. It is now serving more than 200 projects and around 1 500 members joined it. The most important event is that Savannah is now open to Free Software projects that do not (yet ;-) joined the GNU project. This allows candidate packages to the GNU project to develop and grow while going thru the application process. At present 87 such projects are hosted on Savannah. Now that phpGroupWare is dubbed a GNU package, the perspective of migrating the software used to run Savannah under phpGroupWare is more likely to become a reality. At present, there is no concrete plan in this direction but it is actively discussed. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary, Jaime Villate, Guillaume Morin, Joel N. Weber II, Mark H. Weaver. [72]GNU Search As of today the [73]GNU search team was created to maintain and improve the search facility of the GNU project. Cyril Bouthors, Igor Genibel and Helios de Creisquer launched this project. They started as volunteer system administrators of the GNU machine in France (fr.fsf.org). By doing simple tasks in this context they became familiar with the GNU project and proposed to become more commited to the infrastructure. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary, Cyril Bouthors, Igor Genibel, Helios de Creisquer. [74]GNU DNS Joel N. Weber II monitored the fr.fsf.org machine during a few weeks and found that it could do a reasonable secondary name server for the gnu.org domain. He installed it about a month ago and it's running fine. Should the north American continent disappear the domain will still be resolved :-} Volunteers: Joel N. Weber II, Loïc Dachary, Cyril Bouthors. Events and advocacy We would like to acknowledge the countless advocacy efforts made by people tuned on the [75]FSF France mailing list. All of them would deserve an entry in this report, laziness is the only reason why they do not show. We miss some bits such as interviews (Europe II Bordeaux for instance) we never had a chance to listen. If you heard about them, please [76]send us a note. [77]Microsoft FUD ([78]previous report) We relayed press releases. RMS speech was translated and broadcasted. We did not do anything significant at the national level. Unisys studies Free Software ([79]previous report) Unisys politely dismissed our help proposal to write the report, although they invited us to feed them with data. That was not what we wanted. Richard M. Stallman suggested that the best course of action would be to publish an article explaining why the study conducted by Unisys could be biased. Nobody took the task and the report is probably finished by now. We failed on this advocacy issue. BBC World BBC World wanted to interview a Free Software advocate for a television show in London. We proposed that Phil Hands speak in our name. A short time frame did not leave much room for cooperation and it turned out that the journalist really wanted a confrontation between the proprietary world and the Free Software world. At present it is still unclear what the result will be. If you ever see the show, let us know. Volunteers: Phil Hands, Richard M. Stallman, Frédéric Couchet, Loïc Dachary. [80]Le Journal du Net ([81]previous report) This well known french online newspaper changed their category entitled Open Source to Logiciel Libre. We are not entirely happy about the accuracy of their articles but they show a good will that we find remarkable. [82]FAQ hardware producers Marc-Aurèle Darche and Philippe Coulonges wrote a FAQ to inform hardware producers about the advantages of Free Software drivers. This is the first work that involves a cooperation between APRIL, AFUL and FSF France. Marc-Aurèle Darche deserves all the credit for making this joint effort a reality. Although FSF France will not endorse the document produced because it partially advocates for the Open Source movement, working on it allowed us to contribute to the ideas related to Free Software. We will keep the draft directory alive even after the release of the FAQ to show how it evolved. In my eyes it is a nice example of the fundamental difference between the Open Source movement and the Free Software movement. Some people claim Free Software and Open Source are two words on top of the same movement ? Check the [83]first version of the document, rather Open Source style and the [84]second version proposed, more Free Software style. You will see a visible difference in the spirit and very few differences in the wording. Volunteers: Marc-Aurèle Darche, Philippe Coulonges. [85]DCSSI and GNU PG The french government defines a list of software accredited to provide encryption. During LSM Werner Koch asked for volunteers to register GNUPG. Some people show interest to do that but the action did not start yet. [86]CEENET Sebastien Blondeel is attending CEENET in Hungaria (August 20). He will bring goodies from APRIL and FSF Europe and spread the word in our name. He will meet Shooby Ban who is potentially interested in launching a Free Software dedicated organization. People attending CEENET are not specifically interested in Free Software, that makes his mission even more interesting. Volunteers: Sebastien Blondeel. [87]Unesco We engaged a discussion with Unesco on the subject of their Free Software portal because we feel that its content is problematic in many ways. The people are responsive and we sent them a proposal to replace the license page. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary. [88]SourceForge and VA Linux We are helping VA Linux to produce a copyright assignment form for SourceForge authors. The experience of the FSF in this matter is valuable. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary. [89]Propriété intellectuelle , Copyright, Brevets, logiciels libres A special issue of the french magazine MULTITUDE was published on the subject of copyright, patents and free software. It features articles from Richard M. Stallman and Eben Moglen and many other Free Software advocates. Frédéric Couchet and Benjamin Drieu were very involved in making this special issue a reality. Volunteers: Frédéric Couchet, Benjamin Drieu. [90]Libre Software Meeting The event was far too rich to summarize in this report. To our knowledge it is the only event in the world exclusively dedicated to Free Software and organized only by volunteers. Hundreds of users and developers from all around the world attended this event. When compared to events like LinuxWord where at least half the people and organizations present are indeed interested or involved in non free software, it makes a huge difference. Some [91]pictures were taken for the record. Next year event will be organized together with the FSF France, with [92]technical help from the GNU project. We had the opportunity to [93]meet people involved in Free Software organizations from all over the world. Frédéric Couchet and Carl W. Vilbrandt organized and participated to the [94]Law, Economy, Politic and libre software session. Frédéric Couchet introduced the FSF Europe to the audience in a one hour speech. Loïc Dachary was an informal spoke-person of the [95]AFSM during the [96]AAUL meeting. Loïc Dachary shortly spoke about Savannah during the [97]Libre Software for Communication session. The FSF France actively participated to the discussions of the [98]APRIL members Convention. Jaime Villate also attended the event in the name of the future Free Software organization (AGIL will be the name) that is being created in Portugal. INJEP INJEP is launching courses for administrations and non profit organizations in France. These courses are co-financed by the government and cost 500 F for one day. Benjamin Drieu and Jeremy Nestel did some work on a three days course on Free Software at the initiation level. Although not certain yet, this can lead to a cheap way for people to be introduced to the Free Software tools. This project is at a very early stage and volunteers are very needed. Volunteers: Jeremy Nestel, Benjamin Drieu, Frédéric Couchet. Information infrastructure [99]FSF Europe migration The [100]FSF Europe web was migrated to the france.fsfeurope.org machine. This was mainly done to ease the maintainance process of the web and increase the page generation rate without risking to overload the gnudist.gnu.org machine which is already hosting the [101]GNU web site. Volunteers: Frédéric Couchet, Loïc Dachary Contact Database ([102]previous report) This area was rather neglected and did not progress much. The situation improved a little since Bradley M. Kuhn explained in detail what we would need and made contacts with Dan Kuykendall on this subject. We also discovered that XML Vcard was published earlier this year by W3C and this will definitely be the format on which we will be working. Volunteers: Bradley M. Kuhn, Loïc Dachary. [103]Web standards A script repository was created so that directories on various GNU machines handling web sites can use them. The first script to enter the arena is a symbolic link builder for CVS HTML pages. The task of improving the web standards is enormous. However, it is a very rewarding since it brings results rapidly. A rather unexpected improvement comes from [104]the hardware FAQ. The authors use the technical infrastructure of the GNU project to publish their drafts. Since the source format is DocBook, we had some interesting exchanges on formating issues. It appears that the machine fr.fsf.org now has a proper set of software to produce output from DocBook sources. Since there also exist a translator from DocBook to texinfo, one might be tempted to write DocBook documents from now on. This is food for thought, there are many issues to consider, one of which being the relatively immature state of the Free Software DocBook formating tools. Volunteers: Jaime Villate, Paul Vischer, Loïc Dachary, Richard M. Stallman, Marc-Aurèle Darche [105]Audio and video repository A large audio and video repository was created. The primary purpose is to store the FSF Award 2000 video file (1.2Gb) and 400Mb audio files. There is a total of 22Gb available. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary [106]News channel The RSS based news channel of FSF France is available on FSF Europe. Olivier Berger enhanced it to display only the latest news on the front page and all the archives in the news subdirectory. They are now dispatched on a daily basis by mail on the [107]fsfe-newsfr-en@gnu.org and [108]fsfe-newsfr-fr@gnu.org mailing-lists (resp. in english, and in french). This allows people interested in Free Software movement to keep informed of FSF France activity. To subscribe to this mailing-list, [109]send a mail to fsfe-newsfr-en-request@gnu.org with the subject "subscribe" Volunteers: Olivier Berger, Loïc Dachary Administrativia [110]Donations ([111]previous report) We did not chase donations and (what a surprise ;-) nobody sent a cent to FSF France in the past months. The good news is that we did not spend any money either. Cyril Bouthors and Noémie Roche [112]worked hard on the tax deductibility issue. The papers were sent to the administration and we are waiting for their answer. Volunteers: Olivier Berger, Raphaël Rousseau, Frédéric Couchet, Loïc Dachary, Noémie Roche, Cyril Bouthors. Business Cards A new set of 200 business cards was produced for future events. Volunteers: Frédéric Couchet [113]Loïc Dachary Updated: $Date: 2001/08/21 23:47:22 $ $Author: loic $ References 1. http://france.fsfeurope.org/ 2. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html 3. http://lsm.abul.org/ 4. http://savannah.gnu.org/ 5. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html 6. http://france.fsfeurope.org/gpl/ 7. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#gplfrench 8. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-17-01.fr.html 9. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-15-01.fr.html 10. http://lsm.abul.org/ 11. http://www.april.org/actions/brevets/academie.html 12. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-06-26-01.fr.html 13. http://france.fsfeurope.org/libre.en.html 14. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#freedom 15. http://www.ofset.org/ 16. http://www.gnu.org/education/ 17. http://www.ofset.org/information/papers/free-software-and-education-fr.html 18. http://savannah.gnu.org/project/memberlist.php?group_id=200 19. http://france.fsfeurope.org/science/ 20. http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-france-sci/ 21. http://france.fsfeurope.org/coposys/ 22. http://savannah.gnu.org/pm/task.php?func=detailtask&project_task_id=156&group_id=53&group_project_id=48 23. http://france.fsfeurope.org/coposys/ 24. http://france.fsfeurope.org/voting/voting.en.html 25. http://france.fsfeurope.org/collecte.en.html 26. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#gnuinfo 27. http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-eval/ 28. http://www.phpgroupware.org/ 29. http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/fsfe-france/2001-June/000694.html 30. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-06-05-01.fr.html 31. http://lsm.abul.org/ 32. http://lsm.abul.org/program/topic20/topic20.php3 33. http://www.gnu.org/people/ 34. http://nm.debian.org/nmstatus.php?email=loic%40senga.org 35. http://www.debian.org/devel/people 36. http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gnu-search/ 37. http://qa.debian.org/people.html 38. mailto:tbm@gnu.org 39. http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/fsfe-france/2001-June/000694.html 40. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-09-01.fr.html 41. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#technopole 42. http://lsm.abul.org/ 43. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-06-14-01.en.html 44. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#savannah 45. http://savannah.gnu.org/ 46. http://coopx.eu.org/ 47. http://sf.net/ 48. http://phpgroupware.org/ 49. http://www.tuxfamily.org/ 50. http://www.fsf.org/ 51. http://www.fsfeurope.org/ 52. http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfc-discuss/ 53. http://fsf.org.in/ 54. http://www.rons.net.cn/english/Links/fsf-china/ 55. http://cyberlink.idws.com/fsm/ 56. http://es.gnu.org/ 57. http://www.abul.org/ 58. http://www.aldil.org/ 59. http://www.lastjeudi.org/ 60. http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/fsfe-portugal/ 61. http://www.softwarelibero.org/ 62. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-07-05-01.en.html 63. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-07-23-01.en.html 64. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-06-12-01.fr.html 65. http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/fsfe-portugal/ 66. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#gnu 67. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-08-20-01.en.xhtml 68. http://france.fsfeurope.org/server/ 69. http://savannah.gnu.org/ 70. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#gnusavannah 71. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-28-01.en.html 72. http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gnu-search/ 73. http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gnu-search/ 74. http://france.fsfeurope.org/server/ 75. http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/fsfe-france/ 76. mailto:fsfe-france@gnu.org 77. http://www.gnu.org/events/rms-nyu-2001-transcript.txt 78. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#microsoftfud 79. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#unisys 80. http://solutions.journaldunet.com/ 81. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#journaldunet 82. http://france.fsfeurope.org/drafts/faq-constructeurs/generated-html/FAQConstructeurs.fr.html 83. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-08-20-01.en.xhtml 84. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-08-20-01.en.xhtml 85. http://www.gnupg.org/ 86. http://www.ceenet.org/ 87. http://www.unesco.org/webworld/portal_freesoft/ 88. http://sf.net/ 89. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-06-11-01.fr.html 90. http://lsm.abul.org/ 91. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-07-09-01.en.html 92. http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/lsm 93. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-07-04-01.en.html 94. http://lsm.abul.org/program/topic16/topic16.php3 95. http://cyberlink.idws.com/fsm/ 96. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-07-05-01.en.html 97. http://lsm.abul.org/program/topic05/topic05.php3 98. http://lsm.abul.org/program/topic21/topic21.php3 99. http://www.fsfeurope.org/ 100. http://www.fsfeurope.org/ 101. http://www.gnu.org/ 102. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#contact 103. http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/www/ 104. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-08-20-01.en.xhtml#faq 105. http://audio-video.gnu.org/ 106. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/ 107. http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-newsfr-en 108. http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-newsfr-fr 109. mailto:fsfe-newsfr-en-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe 110. http://france.fsfeurope.org/donations/donations.en.html 111. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#donations 112. http://savannah.gnu.org/pm/task.php?func=detailtask&project_task_id=141&group_id=53&group_project_id=37 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 05:03:21 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:33:21 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Wired News :Linux Comes to the Big Screen In-Reply-To: <200108211516.IAA06089@fastbreak.hotwired.com> References: <200108211516.IAA06089@fastbreak.hotwired.com> Message-ID: <86k7zwptye.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> tittyjacob@sify.com (Titty Jacob) writes: > From Wired News, available online at: > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,41536,00.html > Revolution O.S. was made by J.T.S. Moore, who was totally unfamiliar > with the open source community when he started the project. He is definitely, totally, completely clueless even after completing the project: > At the end of the project Moore found he'd turned into an open source > advocate -- but with some reservations. > Moore thinks the biggest threat to the success of the open source > movement is piracy, not Microsoft. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Who will save us from "open source advocates" like Mr. Moore? -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 06:54:24 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:24:24 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [Debate] On Free Software and Freedom Message-ID: Really worth reading. To my surprise, FSF appears to be on "weaker" moral ground in this debate (a rare event). For detailed reading, please visit the _Linux Today_ site. -- Raj ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Linux Today (http://www.linuxtoday.com/) "Freedom Zero" and "Freedom or Power" : Tim O'Reilly and FSF Leaders Debate. Followed by Eric Raymond on "Freedom, Power, or Confusion?" Aug 17, 2001, 17:38 UTC Tim O'Reilly: Some people might not recognize the reference to "Freedom Zero" as a takeoff on the first of Richard Stallman's four freedoms from the Free Software Definition." Bradley Kuhn and Richard M. Stallman: Tim O'Reilly says the most fundamental software freedom is: "The freedom to choose any license you want for software you write." Unstated, but clearly implied, is that one person or corporation chooses the rules to impose on everyone else. In the world that O'Reilly proposes, a few make the basic software decisions for everyone. That is power, not freedom. He should call it "powerplay zero" in contrast with our "freedom zero". O'Reilly's Response: "Bradley clearly misunderstands my article and my argument. First off, if you accept his definition of freedom as "being able to make decisions that affect mainly you" versus power as "being able to make decisions that affect others more than you", then clearly the GPL is just as much about "power" as any Microsoft license, since it is binding on all who use the software, and has the explicit goal of "world domination." Eric Raymond: Freedom, Power, or Confusion? In a reply to Tim O'Reilly, Bradley Kuhn and Richard Stallman illustrate once again why the FSF's use of the word `freedom' is ... well, I'll say "confusing", though stronger terms suggest themselves. They begin by writing "Power is being able to make decisions that affect others more than you. If we confuse power with freedom, we will fail to uphold real freedom." Thus, far I agree with them. Tim asserts that the most fundamental software freedom is the freedom to choose any license you want for the software you write. Kuhn and Stallman reply (unstated, but clearly implied) is "that one person or corporation chooses the rules to impose on everyone else." ================================================================ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 05:35:04 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Amitabh Trehan) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] FSF/GNU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010822053505.71384.qmail@web12205.mail.yahoo.com> --0-225654398-998458504=:71376 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi, are there any spare FSF-India T-shirts? Many in Delhi have shown interest in them , even reproducing them here. Amitabh ===== ######============================############# TrYinG To TaCkLe (La)TeX & Co. #####=============================############# __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ --0-225654398-998458504=:71376-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 05:49:17 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:19:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] FSF/GNU In-Reply-To: <20010822053505.71384.qmail@web12205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 at 22:35, Amitabh Trehan wrote: are there any spare FSF-India T-shirts? Unfortunately all are sold out! Many in Delhi have shown interest in them, even reproducing them here. That will be great. I can send you all the images in pdf format. TUGIndia are going to make T-Shirt for TUG 2002 soon with Duane Bibby's graphic and along with it, we shall order a few hundred pieces of FSF India T-Shirt too. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 16:07:47 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (TUGIndia) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:37:47 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] TeXLive 6 Message-ID: TeXLive version 6 has been released and can be had from Indian TeX Users Group. TeX Live CD-ROM contains ready-to-run TeX systems for GNU/Linux, most types of Unix and Windows 95/NT, and a very complete tree of fonts and macros arranged according to the standard TeX directory structure (TDS). The TeX Live CD has been developed since 1996 by collaboration between the TeX Users Group (TUG), and the TeX user groups of the the Czech Republic, France, Germany, India, Netherlands, Poland, Slovakia and the UK. The sixth edition is based on Web2c 7.3.3 and teTeX 1.0, but contains additions and extensions to both these systems. Very many packages on the CD have changed in some way since 2000, and many new ones have been added. With TeX Live, you can either run directly off the CD, or install programs to your hard disk, using a simple install program. For more details visit: http://www.tug.org/texlive.html Please write to Shan if you want to obtain TeXLive CD with a demand draft for Rs. 500 (cost+forwarding) favouring Indian TeX Users Group on any Bank in Trivandrum. Indian TeX Users Group 3rd Floor, SJP Buildings Cottons Hills, Trivandrum 695014 Tel 0471 33 7502 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 11:59:27 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:29:27 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] FEATURE: You've got mail... WAPpop proves helpful... Message-ID: INDIA-MOBILE-SOFTWARE YOU'VE GOT MAIL... WAPpop PROVES HELPFUL TO MOBILE PHONE USERS by Frederick Noronha MUMBAI -- Mobile phone users are facing an easier task to download their e-mail, thanks to the efforts of a Indian medico from the city of Nagpur who has written a freely-distributable software program called WAPpop. It is drawing hundreds of downloads each day after an upgrade to the software program which was done some weeks back. Mobile phone users have access to phone services while on move, but they need a computer in order to have a look at their e-mail. "WAPpop was written keeping the above problem in mind. So that they can have access, to have a glance on their e-mail while on move," says Dr Tarique Sani. He told this correspondent that by using a WAP (wireless-access protocol) enabled device, like a phone, PDA, or palmtops, the software he wrote -- which is called WAPpop -- can read mail from an Internet server, reply or forward mail, even delete mail and send new messages. The paedetrician-turned-software guru says he WAPpop still remains the only OpenSource software of its kind in India. It was also the first OpenSource software doing its job listed on prestigious international website Freshmeat.net when the first version was released in July 2000. Some weeks back, the software was upgraded. OpenSource is a type of specially-licensed software code that offers its users freedom to use and adapt. This form of collaboratively writing software through the efforts of volunteers worldwide has been making news, because of some excellent products it has generated. WAPpop is an WAP based email client. "Just as Hotmail is an Web based email client and can be accessed through a web browser (by going to the web site), WAPpop can be acccessed thru a WAP device accessing a WAP site which is running WAPpop. WAPpop need not be downloaded to PDAs (personal digital assistants) or other such hand-held devices. This software program is written using PHP, which is a platform-independant server-side scripting language. The OS (operating system) used by the wireless device does not come into the picture except for display. Due to this, WAPpop is best suited for the service provider for giving value-added services from their WAPsites. Recent upgrades have also been attracting attention of computer users worldwide. Says Sani: "The response has by far surpassed expectations. Before the release of second version the downloads (by persons seeking a copy of the software) had tapered down to an average of 1000 per month. The downloads for second version have been an average of 500 per day (soon after it was upgraded in end-June this year)." Sani believes that this WAP-based software could have a lot more potential if the use of WAP devices increases. Presently, he concedes, the tiny-screen and cumbersome typing procedures are a "major hurdle" for anyone wanting to use such wireless devices to access the Internet. There is also limited bandwidth available for WAP. But this could change in the near future. What prompted the paedetrician-forensic medico to take up this unusual project? Says Sani: "When we started this project WAP was a hot technology around the world. Unfortunately most of the WAP development was centered around Microsoft's ASP." But Sani himself "loves PHP", which is the OpenSource's answer to ASP and the most popular web-scripting language around the world. "I felt that I could make a mark for PHP, OpenSource and in turn myself in the WAP world and to that extent I feel this project has been a success," says he. Sani, a doctor by education having done his post graduation in Pediatrics and Forensic Medicine, opted for becoming the CTO (chief technical officer) of his own web-engineering company called SANIsoft based in the Central Indian city of Nagpur. This small firm specialise in web development using Open Source technologies mainly PHP, MySQL/PostgreSQL, Apache running on Linux and more recently running on Windows servers. Sani says modestly that he is not the "lone author of WAPpop", but two other programmers in SANIsoft, Girish Nair and Vinay Kumar, have made "significant contributions to the code". Inspite of its immense potential as a software superpower, India's contribution to OpenSource software has still been rather small. Says Sani: "I wish that it was better. It has the potential to be much better." He feels that Indian students and professionals simply don't have the spare time to contribute enough to this international volunteer-effort at generating high-quality software code. Encouragement is lacking too, but this is beginning to change as more Indian corporates behing to take to GNU/Linux, the 'free' computer operating system, he notes. (ENDS) LINK: Contact Dr Sani at tarique@sanisoft.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 17:54:21 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 22 Aug 2001 23:24:21 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] [Debate] On Free Software and Freedom In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86ofp8yo8i.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raj Singh writes: > Really worth reading. To my surprise, FSF appears to be on "weaker" moral > ground in this debate (a rare event). Dear Raj, Please enlighten us as to why *you* think we are on "weaker moral ground in this debate." Since RMS and Brad may not have the time to monitor this list, it just *might* be that others on this list may be able to debate this with you and convince you that we are, in fact, NOT on "weaker" moral grounds. Thank you. > For detailed reading, please visit > the _Linux Today_ site. > > -- Raj > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Linux Today (http://www.linuxtoday.com/) > > "Freedom Zero" and "Freedom or Power" : Tim O'Reilly and FSF Leaders > Debate. Followed by Eric Raymond on "Freedom, Power, or Confusion?" > > Aug 17, 2001, 17:38 UTC > > Tim O'Reilly: > > Some people might not recognize the reference to "Freedom Zero" as a > takeoff on the first of Richard Stallman's four freedoms from the Free > Software Definition." > > Bradley Kuhn and Richard M. Stallman: > > Tim O'Reilly says the most fundamental software freedom is: "The freedom to > choose any license you want for software you write." Unstated, but clearly > implied, is that one person or corporation chooses the rules to impose on > everyone else. In the world that O'Reilly proposes, a few make the basic > software decisions for everyone. That is power, not freedom. He should call > it "powerplay zero" in contrast with our "freedom zero". > > O'Reilly's Response: > > "Bradley clearly misunderstands my article and my argument. First off, if > you accept his definition of freedom as "being able to make decisions that > affect mainly you" versus power as "being able to make decisions that > affect others more than you", then clearly the GPL is just as much about > "power" as any Microsoft license, since it is binding on all who use the > software, and has the explicit goal of "world domination." > > Eric Raymond: Freedom, Power, or Confusion? > > In a reply to Tim O'Reilly, Bradley Kuhn and Richard Stallman illustrate > once again why the FSF's use of the word `freedom' is ... well, I'll say > "confusing", though stronger terms suggest themselves. > > They begin by writing "Power is being able to make decisions that affect > others more than you. If we confuse power with freedom, we will fail to > uphold real freedom." Thus, far I agree with them. > > Tim asserts that the most fundamental software freedom is the freedom to > choose any license you want for the software you write. Kuhn and Stallman > reply (unstated, but clearly implied) is "that one person or corporation > chooses the rules to impose on everyone else." > > ================================================================ > > _______________________________________________ > http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india > > -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 02:39:03 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:09:03 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [Gnu-India]Re: GNU Project List In-Reply-To: <20010823020753.61760.qmail@web11703.mail.yahoo.com> References: <15236.4321.666981.264477@ab.cdclinux.com> <20010823020753.61760.qmail@web11703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15236.27847.849342.975093@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Naheed Here you go for Netfilter Port to GNU/Hurd Project ABOUT NETFILTER: ================ Netfilter is just a framework for building NAT and filtering. Netfilter base code hooks into the protocol stack at various spots. For example if you take TCP/IP stack, there are 5 hooks * LOCAL IN Packets for this(local) machine * LOCAL OUT Packets from this machine * PRE-ROUTING Packets entering this machine from network. It might be for this machine or routed thru this machine * POST-ROUTING Packets leaving this machine. May be from this machine or a packet routed thru this machine. * FORWARDING Packets routed thru ur machine. So using these hooks it provides a framework to register tables and modules. Tables contains rules passed from user space thru iptables command. These rules contain typically a match and a target. When ever a packet enters the Netfilter framework, it is passed thru these rules. If a packet is matched with a rule ,it will be passwd to the target module. The target module can decide the fate of the packet. ENVIRONMENT: ============ A real battle ground for Netfilter environment will be * a network with atleast 100+ users connected to other intranet/internet * Netfilter box with 2.4.x kernel with 2 ethernet cards * and lot of time to experiment. For a developer: Even if you don't have such an env, you can still do ur development on a single machine. You can test simple rules on loopback (127.0.0.1). You are just doing porting. Netfilter is already a proven implementation. After porting, there are users to help us in testing. FOR DEVELOPER: ============== We are very very lucky :) Because The Hurd's TCP/IP stack is port(copied:) from Linux 2.2 kernel. So it shouldn't be difficult for us to port Netfilter to Hurd. For all these steps, you have to constantly work with me. Don't ever hesitate to ask even the stupidest question. You never know how many others have the same question. Next step is: Step 1* Get urself familiarized with Netfilter usage Read NAT-HowTo and Filtering-HowTo Step 2* OK, Now you are ready for hacking Read Netfilter-Hackers Guide. Understand the design/implementation of Netfilter. Step 3* Browse the source code of TCP/IP stack and NetFilter. There are other guides of Rusty Russell. They are Kernel hackers guide and Kernel Locking guide. They are not necessary. Because in Hurd, we do it in user space. Its easy. I expect lot of mails from you here after. I've no plans for LA, But I will be in Fremont(CA) next week most probably. Best Regards ab Naheed Vora writes: > Hi ab, > I am happy to have your permission as well as sureity > of guidance for the project. I met the professor today > and he is ready to help me through. I am not sure if I > will take as my credits or else as funtime project, > but I am seriously looking forward to work on this > project. The prof. will sit along with me and discuss > the framework and architecture of Netfilter translator > may be next week. I will keep you updated with the > progress and solicit your help whenever required. > > Do let me know if you are planning to come to LA > during your visit to US. We can meet if you happen to > come to LA, > > C ya, > Bye, > Naheed -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 04:14:27 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 23 Aug 2001 09:44:27 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] [Debate] On Free Software and Freedom In-Reply-To: <86ofp8yo8i.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> References: <86ofp8yo8i.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <86ae0r9zvg.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> klak@giasbm01.vsnl.net.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) writes: > Raj Singh writes: > > > Really worth reading. To my surprise, FSF appears to be on "weaker" moral > > ground in this debate (a rare event). > > Dear Raj, > > Please enlighten us as to why *you* think we are on "weaker moral > ground in this debate." > > Since RMS and Brad may not have the time to monitor this list, it just > *might* be that others on this list may be able to debate this with > you and convince you that we are, in fact, NOT on "weaker" moral grounds. I apologize for sounding so "combative!" My feeble excuse is that it was really late late in the night when I wrote that. Sorry. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 06:31:11 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (fsf-india@gnu.org.in) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:01:11 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Free Software related Projects in India Message-ID: <20010823120111.A525@orion> Hi friends, FSF India had informed Government of West Bengal its opinion on Governments recent initiative to join hands with proprietary software companies. It would be nice if some one from West Bengal could follow up the issue and let us know what is going on. We need to make a catalogue of various Free Software related projects going on in India(not only the software development project, but relating to Freedom) and people and organisations providing services on Free Software. Any comments ? Arun. BTW Anand Babu, I've seen a list of projects sent by you to GNU-India list. Can you forward the same to this list. We will add them to www.gnu.org.in. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 13:01:57 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:31:57 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Malayalam support for GNU/Linux References: Message-ID: <3B84FEC5.E9224EB2@ti.com> Radhakrishnan CV wrote: > > The software used are gtk+-1.3.5, pango-0.16. The sources will be > released soon. A screen shot can be had at: > > http://www.tugindia.org.in/malayalam/malayalam.jpg > > Its is just in alpha stage and you can expect a few bugs. Comments > are welcome. That's really great!!! Congratulations to the team. By the way, I came accross a page, which says that NCST is doing a project called "Localisation of 'Linux'". See this page for details http://www.tdil.gov.in/ongoing_proj.html -- Ramakrishnan M World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 13:28:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (raj kumar) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 06:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF India]GNU Project List In-Reply-To: <15236.27847.849342.975093@ab.cdclinux.com> Message-ID: <20010823132830.68157.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "M.P.Anand Babu" wrote: Hi ab, nice to see you again!!! I am certainly interested in this. > Next step is: > Step 1* Get urself familiarized with Netfilter usage > Read NAT-HowTo and Filtering-HowTo > Step 2* OK, Now you are ready for hacking > Read Netfilter-Hackers Guide. > Understand the design/implementation of > Netfilter. > Step 3* Browse the source code of TCP/IP stack > and NetFilter. Once upon a time I had hacked together a masq module for H.323 for 2.0.36 kernel and I used to follow the netfilter list for quite some time. But I am quite new to hurd developement. I also do not know how much time I can spend for this. But I will certainly try to contribute some thing. Is there a mail list for this work? raj raj@gnu.org.in __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 18:12:53 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:42:53 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Free Software related Projects in India In-Reply-To: <20010823120111.A525@orion> References: <20010823120111.A525@orion> Message-ID: <15237.18341.982390.198278@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Arun > We need to make a catalogue of various Free Software related > projects going on in India(not only the software development project, > but relating to Freedom) and people and organisations providing > services on Free Software. > > Any comments ? This should be first step to proceed. Yes Not just software, any initiative towards Freedom. > BTW Anand Babu, I've seen a list of projects sent by you to > GNU-India list. Can you forward the same to this list. We will > add them to www.gnu.org.in. I have pasted the list along with this mail. This list is too informal to get into the website. I prefer a proper work structure before they all become official. A proper work structure will have * Project RoadMap * Project Admin/Coordinator, Team Members, Doc Writer, Release Technician ... * Atleast one tar ball release (atleast beta) * Documentation * GNU GPL/Equivalent License By doing this way it becomes easier for others to join the team and easily contribute either by coding or testing. All this step is required to make the first official release. Till that stage mailing list will to. I use sourceforge.net as by /tmp and when 0.1 ver is ready, I move to savannah.gnu.org This list is cutcopied from a mail. BTW lets move the gnu-india.org mailing list to FSF-I list. It takes pain to move all that 108 subscribers all of a sudden to this list. But we need to avoid duplication !! 1) GNU Messenger: by ab, Bala, Mridul Jain, Parag Mehta, Jeffrin GNU Messenger for Yahoo services with a console based geeky readline and guile interface. It started a fun project, but today its production ready. Main motivation behind the project is to spread the power of GUILE and READLINE librady. You have shown ur interest in Lisp I'm writing more about Guile here, because Guile is a dialect of Lisp and one of the most important project of GNU. Like you, we all believe that Lisp is Next Generation Language. Its going to reappear soon. Its the only answer for AI and Next Generation Computing. Guile is *Project GNU's extension language* Guile is a library designed to help programmers create flexible applications. Using Guile in an application allows programmers to write plug-ins, or modules (there are many names, but the concept is essentially the same) and users to use them to have an application fit their needs. Guile is an interpreter for the Scheme programming language, packaged as a library which can be incorporated into your programs. Your users have full access to the interpreter, so Guile itself can be extended, based on the needs of the user. The result is a scripting language tailored to your application. For more info visit http://www.gnu.org/software/guile 2) Cool Hurd Translators: Translator itself is cool concept in GNU/Hurd. Here are some translators written by college students in this list: * bzip2 translator: Ankur, Shikka and Venkat wrote this translator. This when mapped on a file, you can do bzip compressed I/O. * reverse translator: Written by Ramesh. When mapped to a file, what ever you write to it, you can read the reverse of them. * Tar file system translator: Again by Ramesh. Ramesh got the name "Tarzen" because of this TAR project. You can mount a tar file as file system using this translator. This project is still in initial stages. * Quote translator: You can map this as ur .signature, /etc/issues, /etc/motd and so on and get random quotes on the fly. Every time when you read from this file, you get random quotes from its database. 3) Visual Emacs Calculator: by Pradhap This is written in Emacs Lisp. He is currently busy with MP3 player for GNU Emacs. 4) GNU Hurd Asynchronous Message Debugger: This project is given to me by RMS. It should facilitate a mechanism to debug(record/replay) asynchronous messages between GNU Mach and GNU Hurd. 5) MiG -> CORBA: By Mridul Jain and ab MiG is obsolete interface and Mach Specific. This project replaces MiG with CORBA standards to make GNU/Hurd language independent and distributed. This is extremely big project. 6) Linux Device Drivers Emulation in Hurd Space: By ab, Bala and Mridul Emulating Linux Device Drivers in user space. GNU Mach is only a micro kernel. Santhanu Goel emulated Linux SCSI and Network drivers inside GNU Mach. But GNU Mach bloats up in size and loses the Mirco Kernel stature. But by bringing the drivers to user space we have lots of advantages like system stability, modularization ease of development/maintainability. 7) Porting Netfilter to Hurd By ab Netfilter is NAT/Firewall framework in Linux 2.4.x kernel. This should be ported to GNU Hurd/Pfinet. Hurd's TCP/IP stack is derived from Linux kernel and because of that porting Netfilter to Hurd shouldn't be difficult. 8) GNU/Hurd Distribution: By gnu-india.org team. We have stopped this project, because Philip Charles is doing it better. But still we continue the 3rd CD of this project. This CD is named "4-hackers" contains valuable documentation for GNU OS Hacking 9) GNU Geek: by Visu and Nagappan GNU Geek is GNU [G]eek [E]nabled [E]ntry [K]it Geek is a highly extensible framework for building console based data entry tools. is powered by GUILE and READLINE. -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 24 06:06:50 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:36:50 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF India]GNU Project List In-Reply-To: <20010823132830.68157.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <15236.27847.849342.975093@ab.cdclinux.com> <20010823132830.68157.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15237.61178.913208.756943@ab.cdclinux.com> Regarding Netfilter, here is the list http://us4.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/netfilter Netfilter Hompage: http://netfilter.samba.org For Netfilter->Hurd port we will have on FSF-I mailing list You can really contribute a lot to this project. Don't worry about ur limitted knowledge in Hurd. You can quickly learn them. Best Regards ab raj kumar writes: > --- "M.P.Anand Babu" wrote: > > Hi ab, nice to see you again!!! > > I am certainly interested in this. > > > Next step is: > > Step 1* Get urself familiarized with Netfilter usage > > Read NAT-HowTo and Filtering-HowTo > > Step 2* OK, Now you are ready for hacking > > Read Netfilter-Hackers Guide. > > Understand the design/implementation of > > Netfilter. > > Step 3* Browse the source code of TCP/IP stack > > and NetFilter. > > Once upon a time I had hacked together a masq module > for H.323 for 2.0.36 kernel and I used to follow the > netfilter list for quite some time. But I am quite new > to hurd developement. I also do not know how much time > I can spend for this. But I will certainly try to > contribute some thing. > > Is there a mail list for this work? > > raj > raj@gnu.org.in -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 24 10:28:29 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:58:29 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] build instructions - gnuyahoo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15238.11341.168944.143578@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Parag I have enabled moderator rights for you. Again its all yours. Do anything you want. I need some more help from you. Basically product engineering. GNUYahoo is extensible thru Scheme language with gnuyahoo bindings. We need to make some standards before we make this extension language available to the community. I will explain them in a separate mail. Parag Mehta writes: > Hi AB, > can u send me the build instructions. i hv the required lib with > me. also letme know the following : libyahoo: --------- After compiling libyahoo, I manually copy the following files manually. libyahoo.a -> /usr/lib/libyahoo.a libyahoo.h -> /usr/include/libyahoo.h libyahoo-proto.h -> /usr/include/libyahoo-proto.h This is something the libyahoo team should address. They should have "make install" support libreadline4, libreadline4-dev, libguile6, libguile6-dev -------------------------------------------------------- This installation should be straight forward. I do apt-get install . May be you will do rpm -ivh finally gnuyahoo -------- As it complies with gnu source code packaging standards all you need to do is ./configure --prefix= make make install Advanced!@% ----------- When you run gnuyahoo for first time, it will create .gnuyahoo directory in ur home. like [~/.gnuyahoo] It will also touch ~/.gnuyahoo/gnuyahoo.scm. ~/.gnuyahoo/gnuyahoo.scm is your startup file. Its optional. But ur extremely powerful. Here is my ~/.gnuyahoo/gnuyahoo.scm file ================================================== ;; [login section starts] ;; assume current userid as yahoo-id ;; (gy-set-login-id! (array-ref (getpwuid (getuid)) 0)) ;; (gy-set-login-id! "abindian") (gy-set-login-id! 'gnu_india) ;; [login section ends] ;; [password section starts] ;; set password (gy-set-password! "press-enter") ;; [password section ends] ;; history feature (define log-message (lambda (from msg) (define history-file (open-file (string-append (gy-get-config-dir) "/history/" from) "a")) (define log (string-append "[" from "] " msg "\n")) (display log history-file) (close-output-port history-file))) (add-hook! gy-msg-receive-hook log-message) (add-hook! gy-msg-send-hook log-message) ;; alias support ;; (set! gy-aliases (assoc-set! gy-aliases 'nags '(nagappanal gnu_india))) ;; (set! gy-aliases (assoc-set! gy-aliases 'bala '(balugi gnu_india))) ================================================== I have programmed my gnuyahoo to have history feature. This was done by hooking the history procedure to gy-msg-receive-hook and gy-msg-send-hook. CC-Loadable Module ------------------ You can CC yahoo messages on the fly to ur friends thru this GNUYahoo loadable CC module. This module is really simple. You can use ?load to load and unload the module ====================================================== (if (defined? 'cc-buddy) () (define cc-buddy (lambda (to msg) (and (string=? to "balugi") (gy-send-message-no-hook "nagappanal" (string-append "[To:bala, CC:] " msg))) (and (string=? to "nagappanal") (gy-send-message-no-hook "balugi" (string-append "[To:nags, CC:] " msg))) (and (string=? to "gnu_india") (gy-send-message-no-hook "gnu_india" (string-append "[To:bala, CC:] " msg)))))) (define unhooked 0) (for-each (lambda (hook-proc) (and (equal? hook-proc cc-buddy) (begin (display "Unhooking ...") (remove-hook! gy-msg-send-hook cc-buddy) (display "done") (newline) (set! unhooked 1)))) (hook->list gy-msg-send-hook)) (and (= unhooked 0) (begin (display "Hooking ...") (add-hook! gy-msg-send-hook cc-buddy) (display "done") (newline))) ====================================================== package and libguile > i hv generated a tar ball named gnuyahoo-0.1.tar.gz and uploaded it > on sf.net not yet released. how abt we releasing this and then > onwards to 1.0 which when released moves to savannah ?? Yes thats sounds workable. We will proceed that way. > awaiting release details. also if u can grant me premission to > start a ml on sf.net by setting permission to me as a moderator . done > we can than hv this kind of stuff on that ml so can hv all > virews/tips/flames etc. thre. here i feel it only happens with u & > me. :) :)) We already have two mailing lists FSF-India and GNU-India to flood ;) Ok I dumped enough on this mail to confuse all of us. Scheme extensions might look little complex to beginners, but they are extremely simple. We have to write extensive documentation to cover them all. Using this extension language you can do anything you want. Best Regards ab -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 24 16:24:18 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:54:18 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Query: FS projects by Indian programmers In-Reply-To: <15237.61178.913208.756943@ab.cdclinux.com> Message-ID: Does anyone know of interesting Free Software or GNU/Linux projects done by Indian programmers which could be written about? I'm a freelance journalist... Frederick *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Frederick Noronha | Freelance Journalist | 784 Saligao 403511 Goa India Ph [0091] 832.409490 or 832.409783 Cell 9822 12.24.36 fred@bytesforall.org *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 25 12:43:51 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:13:51 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [Gnu-India](no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15239.40327.566215.720182@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Sandeep Thanks for the encouragement. Hope to see you soon on the list. You can also see http://gnu.org.in Best Regards ab Sandeep Gopal Nijsure writes: > Namaste!! > > Today while browsing debian.org I came across gnu-india.org.. good to see > something of this sort in India. Thanks to you all, and also my best > wishes. I look forward to joining the group when I learn a bit more about > unix/linux/herd.. > > chalo > Sandeep > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnu-India mailing list > Gnu-India@gnu-india.org > http://gnu-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-india > -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 25 16:49:27 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:19:27 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] NEWS: GHAZALS ONLINE: CENTURIES-OLD POETRY GETS A LEG-UP FROM I.T. Message-ID: 'GHAZALS' ONLINE: CENTURIES-OLD POETRY GETS A LEG-UP FROM I.T. by Frederick Noronha fred@bytesforall.org MUMBAI: Modern-day powers of IT is teaming up with the age-old charm of the 'ghazal' to breathe new life and interest in these captivating poems set to music, that are widely popular in the South Asian language of Urdu. A new website just launched from the central Indian city of Nagpur called aaina-e-ghazal.com offers a trilingual dictionary of commonly used words in 'ghazals'. It is also accessible via the nagpurcity.net site. To enhance the popularity of this site and help the 'ghazals' get a wider reach, the Urdu text is written in Devnagri, the widely-used script of Hindi and other North Indian languages. Urdu is spoken by an estimated 104 million worldwide, and like Hindi have proceeded from the same Khariboli speech source from the areas sorrounding Delhi. Ghazals -- like other Indian hymns called 'Thumris' or 'Bhajans' are also -- addressed to God in terms of human love. Some trace their origins to 10th century Iran. The meanings of the words used in the Ghazals are given in English, Hindi and the regional language Marathi. Together with this, the site offers an illustrative Urdu couplet or two-lined poem (which is known as 'Sher'), according to Dr Tarique Sani. Dr Sani, a pediatrician by training who shifted over to the world of software and runs a firm called Sanisoft, is the founder of the site. Sani told IANS in an interview: "The book (of ghazals) was authored by my late parents and Dr Vinay Waikar and was in the fourth print edition when my father passed away. I designed this site as a tribute to the memory of my parents." This site is an online version of the same book but, he said, includes "a lots of enhancements, like dynamic cross-referenceing, site personalization, an ability to Romanize the Devnagri-script part and vice versa, etc." Incidentally, while undertaking this work, Dr Sani also build up a English-to-Hindi transliterator, that could give a further push to Indian language computing solutions. To render the 'ghazals' into Hindi, he was looking around for suitable software. Says he: "I was quoted Rs 250,000 for the software. I strongly felt such a basic-necessity software in a country like India should be free. So I just went ahead and designed my own and saved myself a quarter million rupees." Today, he freely distributes this software. This software Dr Sani wrote -- egged on by the peculiar needs of the site -- is a Roman-script to Devnagri transliterator. It allows you to type using English alphabets and they are converted to Devnagri equivalent. In a country like India where local-language computing is a pressing need, such products could act as a useful bridge to a solution. This product is available at the site for free download from http://www.sanisoft.com/rtod/index.php3 Other Indian sites -- like rediffmail.com, webduniya.com and mailjol.com -- also offer similar products. But unlike these products, Dr Sani's software follows the new and innovative trend of putting out 'free' software. So, he offers his own 'source-code' to anyone wanting to adapt or improve the product, encouraging a cycle of further improvements. "I am soliciting developers to modify the software for other Indian languages. Particularly Urdu, as this is the most challenging task," said Dr Sani. He says the framework is fairly modular and for someone who knows other language mapping it will be an easy job. "More needs to be done (to promote Indian-language computing)," says Dr Sani. He believes that the low-cost computing device, the Simputer being put together by scientists in Bangalore, could be an ideal device on this front. More websites are also required in Indian languages, with greater co-operation among them, rather than an urge to grab-my-share-of-the-pie, as he puts it. "India is a vast country the market is big enough for everyone but to exploit this market we need co-operation," he says. This software is available for free download from http://www.sanisoft.com/rtod/index.php3 . It is provided under LGPL, or the Lesser GNU Public License. A user is free to use the software even in his commercial products. But if any modifications are made to the original code, then the new code also has to be made public under LGPL. Sani says it took two months for him to create this software "from conceptualization to end-product". This is one in a small-but-growing trend of 'Open Source' and 'free' software products now beginning to come up in a country like India which is known to have vast software skills, but is only now beginning to see more collaborative working thanks to a recent spurt in growth of the Internet. FOOTNOTE: Contact Dr Sani at tarique@sanisoft.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Frederick Noronha | Freelance Journalist | 784 Saligao 403511 Goa India Ph [0091] 832.409490 or 832.409783 Cell 9822 12.24.36 fred@bytesforall.org *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 26 16:11:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:41:28 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] SUG: For students, Indian Open Source projects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15241.8112.567031.205307@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Frederick I have lot of projects in TODO list. If you find anybody looking for projects, please forward them to me, I will guide them and get it completed. -ab -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 26 20:03:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 01:33:52 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] SUG: For students, Indian Open Source projects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15241.22056.904938.94646@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Frederick One small correction, "Indian Free Software Projects" instead of "Indian Open Source Projects" Open Source community does not have any ethics attached. They don't really care about Freedom. Thanks ab -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 26 20:10:57 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 01:40:57 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [Gnu-India]SUG: For students, Indian Open Source projects In-Reply-To: References: <15241.8112.567031.205307@ab.cdclinux.com> Message-ID: <15241.22481.554646.51828@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Narasim Welcome to the GNU community of India. To get into the dev gang, you just need to feel you are a part of this movement, thats it. No one here can grant or revoke your rights. Its all yours. Next, Get involved in some projects, or start your own. We have plenty of ideas. If you have any, tell us. Tell us about your interests and skills to get started Best Regards ab -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) Narasimhamurthy Giridhar writes: > hi anand babu > I am interested in doing some work in Hurd. I am CS student doing my MS. > What do I need to do to get into the dev gang of Gnu-India. > Regards > Narasimhamurthy Giri, Clemson University Computer Science Dept. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Judge not lest ye be judged yourself. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, M.P.Anand Babu wrote: > > > Hi Frederick > > I have lot of projects in TODO list. > > If you find anybody looking for projects, please forward > > them to me, I will guide them and get it completed. > > > > -ab > > -- > > Addicted to GNU Emacs > > Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) > > _______________________________________________ > > Gnu-India mailing list > > Gnu-India@gnu-india.org > > http://gnu-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-india > > > > From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 27 13:16:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:46:52 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Why you should not use sourceforge for your code hosting and development. Message-ID: <3B8A4844.FAFA235F@ti.com> Hello! By now, all of you in the Free Software Community would have come to know that the VA Research supported site http://sourceforge.net/ is going commercial. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/21253.html http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=6267&group_id=1 i.e The code of sourceforge is going to be closed. Here is the relevant text "By selling proprietary software together with Open Source software, VA is making it easier for its enterprise customers to purchase and deploy SourceForge software. VA Linux will be distributing SourceForge Enterprise Edition to its corporate customers under a combination of the Mozilla Public License (version 1.1) and a proprietary software license. " This is not unexpected of a company owned by VA Linux. VA's cheif Larry Augustin, is one among the advocates of the Open Source Movement (which by the way has nothing to do with Free Software Movement). They also add that they will be coming out with the GPLed version of sourceforge code(which is already there, and is used by http://savannah.gnu.org/). But needless to say, they must be feeling that they did a bad thing when they released the code under GPL, way back when they started sourceforge. What if, tomorrow, VA says, all the code hosted on sourceforge with licences other than GPL (or less "restrictive" than GPL) are going to be owned by them? or what if they say that the operational cost is high and shut down the site? These are very much possible. They all jumped into this business, not to promote it or not to be part of the community, but for the simple reason that there is money there. And now, Eric Raymond who, some people regard as Richard Stallman of Open Source Movement, has posted the following mail asking people to calm down... http://lwn.net/daily/esr-on-va.php3 That's stupid, and is unexpected from a person like ESR. Of course I respect him as a hacker. But I think I know why he came out with this letter: He holds huge stake in VA. It's just that simple. I am not a businessman and I don't (and can't think like a businessman and so) I don't understand most of the stuff that he has written in that letter. I am concerned only about one thing. Will the end users of the software be benifited? In this case, it is the developers, who are going to use the sourceforge software. It's clear that given the motives of VA, we should expect more bad news from them. So the conclusion IMNSHO(In My Not So Humble Opinion): Boycott sourceforge, Use savannah instead! Protect your rights and freedom. Let the flamefest begin! Best Regards -- Ramakrishnan M World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 27 18:19:44 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:49:44 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] forwarded message from Narasimhamurthy Giridhar Message-ID: <15242.36672.399599.725643@ab.cdclinux.com> Return-path: Envelope-to: ab@localhost Delivery-date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:19:53 +0530 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] ident=ab) by ab.cdclinux.com with esmtp (Exim 3.31 #1 (Debian)) id 15bQWG-0004R6-00 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:19:52 +0530 Delivered-To: gnu-india.org-ab@gnu-india.org Received: from 207.189.136.128 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.3.3) for ab@localhost (single-drop); Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:19:52 +0530 (IST) Received: (qmail 15399 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2001 16:58:40 -0000 Received: from citron.cs.clemson.edu (HELO cs.clemson.edu) (130.127.48.6) by vrindavix.thisaddress.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 2001 16:58:40 -0000 Received: from comet9.cs.clemson.edu (comet9 [130.127.48.205]) by cs.clemson.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24964 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:56:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (giridhar@localhost) by comet9.cs.clemson.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12145 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:56:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: comet9.cs.clemson.edu: giridhar owned process doing -bs In-Reply-To: <15241.22481.554646.51828@ab.cdclinux.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Narasimhamurthy Giridhar To: "M.P.Anand Babu" Subject: Re: [Gnu-India]SUG: For students, Indian Open Source projects Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Hi ab Thanx for the reply. My interests are Operating Systems. I am right now studying Linux. My skills are as follows: Languages: C, C++ experiance in Compiler Construction, UNIX and Windows Socket Programming,UNIX System Programming, Windows MFC. Currently working on building a device driver for 3Dlabs Permedia2 graphics board on Linux for Pentium based machines. The compiler construction was on Solaris. So was most of the socket programming that i have done. Other than this, I am also interested in internetworking, but my knowledge in protocols is very less. This is about my skills as of now. Do you think i can help?? Regards Narasimhamurthy Giri, Clemson University Computer Science Dept. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Judge not lest ye be judged yourself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, M.P.Anand Babu wrote: > Hi Narasim > Welcome to the GNU community of India. > > To get into the dev gang, you just need to feel > you are a part of this movement, thats it. No one > here can grant or revoke your rights. Its all yours. > > Next, Get involved in some projects, or start your own. > We have plenty of ideas. If you have any, tell us. > > Tell us about your interests and skills to get started > > Best Regards > ab > -- > Addicted to GNU Emacs > Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) > > Narasimhamurthy Giridhar writes: > > hi anand babu > > I am interested in doing some work in Hurd. I am CS student doing my MS. > > What do I need to do to get into the dev gang of Gnu-India. > > Regards > > Narasimhamurthy Giri, Clemson University Computer Science Dept. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Judge not lest ye be judged yourself. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, M.P.Anand Babu wrote: > > > > > Hi Frederick > > > I have lot of projects in TODO list. > > > If you find anybody looking for projects, please forward > > > them to me, I will guide them and get it completed. > > > > > > -ab > > > -- > > > Addicted to GNU Emacs > > > Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Gnu-India mailing list > > > Gnu-India@gnu-india.org > > > http://gnu-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-india > > > > > > > > From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 28 19:43:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (harshu) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 01:13:00 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Glibc Message-ID: <20010829011300.A762@hd2.vsnl.net.in> hi Can somebody give an explantion in newbies terms as to what exactly this article means. I am refering the end where is says not so nice things. http://news.linuxprogramming.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-08-16-002-06-LT regards harsha -- ... I don't know which is more striking - the clumsy inadequacy of words, or their world-shaking power. So long as men remain emotional creatures, they will continue to be taken, like rabbits, by the ears. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 28 15:09:17 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:39:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] From the gnu wins again dept Message-ID: Hi all, IBM has taken GNU/Linux to the NewYork Stock Exchange. Read more about it at http://www.investors.com/editorial/TechP.asp raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 29 09:15:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Vivekananda Prabhu) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) Message-ID: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I have been following the "Free" vs. "Open Source" vs. "Closed Source" debate which has been raging for sometime now. The real issues here is *ethics*. The so-called Open Source guys are here to make *money* period. Though open source definition looks deceptively similar to Free Software definition including half-hearted endorsement of GPL, the real issues are more deeper & subtle (for the casual reader) 1) World Domination -- Most of the open source guys are of the type "My view is world view" including Linus Torvalds & the stupid moron ( pardon me for the strong words used but I couldn't find any political correct word to describe this guy) who has added words of poisonous vicious attack on RMS on GLIBC README!!!. They want Linux to succeed not "Freedom" How does this make them different from Bill Gate's vision of "Windows everywhere"? This is against the "Freedom of choice & collaboration" which must be available to the users & developers. Do we want to have "Linux everywhere" tommorrow & pay $s to Red Hat & VA Linux instead of to M$? I love Free software not because it will dominate the world tommorrow but it gives me the choice & power to do whatever I want to do with it today 2) Software Incubation /Marketing -- These guys give out open source not because they love freedom but as they don't have any other choice. Software incubation from alpha stage to beta & into production (as any developer knows) is a long drawn & costly process. Initial marketing when you don't have a customer requires a fat bank balance. So they do open source. Open Source automatically gives them developers for free (as in free beer), it also gives them free publicity. As more & more users download & use the software this gives them market penetration (market percentage) which they want. Remember Linus Torvalds initially released Linux as a non-free software & then used GPL. He used GPL not because he loved Freedom or had any sacred feeling for GPL (which he doesnot).But he wanted Linux to succeed. If he hadn't used GPL Linux still would have the same mindshare as FreeBSD or Minix. 3)Love for Mozilla/BSD style licences - These people love these licences not because they want to give developers more choice about licences, but these licences give them the option to turn closed source & steal other developers efforts if they have to. E.g. As X Consortium tried to turn last X release into closed source (unsuccessfully) Some of them go to the length of saying developers Read companies) should have the freedom to choose whichever licences they wish to (Notably Tim O'Reilly & seconded by Eric S. Raymond).Extending this argument even M$ Closed source/Shared Source licences are also OK for them. Isn't it? 4) B grade software - The real danger of Open Source is that it will tie those users who love freedom to B grade software, as all Professional & Enterprise Editions will be closed source. You use a open source software to do some basic thing. As your business develops you want to do more advanced things. You suddenly realise you *lose your freedom*, get a closed source software & pay through your nose. This strategy is the same as used by "Freeware" people. In this respect atleast M$ is OK. When you go with M$ you know you have pay for every feature you want to use & you lose freedom. Atleast they don't cheat the people in the name of "Open Source" (not yet). As an e.g. Can you develop JSPs/EJBs using open source Netbeans/Forte? The answer is *no*, leaving aside *early access* releases which are baits to get free developers, testers & *will* be expired once the Closed Source version becomes ready to market. That is why they love non-copyleft BSD/Mozilla licences which prevent them from doing this.They don't love (hate in their hearts) GPL as this prevents them from doing this (if they include other peoples contributions which they invariably have to). Agreed they don't say GPL is "Cancerous" & "Unamerican" the way M$ does though they would love to but scared that they might lose the free (gratis) developers/testers. But they do no lesser harm by saying OK, you can use GPL but you are equally safe using BSD, Mozilla etc.(whill will allow me to steal your efforts).Just look at the list of licences available at Open Source web site (http://www.opensource.org).You'll be surprised to find GPL at the very bottom (added half-heartedly with a sarcastic explanation). I am not surprised tommorrow if they welcome M$ with it's Shared Source licence into thier club (if M$ is ready to pump $s into thier companies).M$ may even licence some part of it's OS kernel using Mozilla/BSD style licence if it can reduce it's maintenance costs while reserving the right to add proprietory extensions Given this background we are seeing more & more "Open Source" guys turning "Closed Source" on the pretext of "Sacrifice". Please read Eric Raymonds explanation for VA going closed source ( It is alright to sacrifice principles for money). With friends like "Open Source" guys do we need enemies? An enemy who acts like a friend is more dangerous than a open foe (M$ & other closed source companies). The real definition of Open Source is "Free beer (for me) not free speech (for you)" (with due apologies to RMS) Sorry for the long winded story. But I felt that it is time somebody exposed these guys for what they are. Everyone here was saying hey we are rivals not enemies, Open Source & FSF are friends & go hand in hand etc. Before flaming me or this mailing list for my heresy of calling GNU/Linux as Linux, please understand I am talking about/exposing the thinking of Open Sourcers. (They certainly donot call Gnu/Linux as Gnu/Linux). In case anybody is still offended my apologies to them. Regards, Vivek __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 29 13:02:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Kalyan Varma) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:32:58 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Vivekananda Prabhu wrote: > Some of them go to the length of saying developers > Read companies) should have the freedom to choose > whichever licences they wish to (Notably Tim O'Reilly > & seconded by Eric S. Raymond).Extending this argument > even M$ Closed source/Shared Source licences are also > OK for them. Isn't it? You are contradicting yourself. Where the hell is my freedom if I cant choose the license I want. I agree GPL is a good thing, but you cant go around forcing people to use GPL. Its their choice. If they dont mind others using their code , then what the hell is your problem ? lets say I write a appilication. I really dont give a damn what license it is under. All I care is that my appilication works.When I use Linux I dont use it coz it is under GPL. I use it coz its the technology that I like. - kalyan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 05:51:51 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:21:51 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com>; from vivekbp@yahoo.com on Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:15:06AM -0700 References: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010830112151.A22766@mailandnews.com> On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:15:06AM -0700, Vivekananda Prabhu wrote: > > 4) B grade software - The real danger of Open Source > is that it will tie those users who love freedom to B > grade software, as all Professional & Enterprise > Editions will be closed source. > > You use a open source software to do some basic thing. > As your business develops you want to do more advanced > things. You suddenly realise you *lose your freedom*, > get a closed source software & pay through your nose. Even if we are willing to pay, we don't get the basic freedoms that we deserve. We will be forced to pay for "LESSER software" and by the time we realize that, we are trapped. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 29 17:42:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:12:28 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15245.10628.282676.90341@mail.linux-delhi.org> Hi Prabhu, >>>>> "VA" == Vivekananda Prabhu writes: VA> Hi, I have been following the "Free" vs. "Open Source" vs. VA> "Closed Source" debate which has been raging for sometime now. VA> The real issues here is *ethics*. VA> The so-called Open Source guys are here to make *money* VA> period. Though open source definition looks deceptively VA> similar to Free Software definition including half-hearted VA> endorsement of GPL, the real issues are more deeper & subtle VA> (for the casual reader) I'm in it to make money. Does that make me an outcast from the Free Software community? VA> 1) World Domination -- Most of the open source guys are of the VA> type "My view is world view" including Linus Torvalds & the VA> stupid moron ( pardon me for the strong words used but I VA> couldn't find any political correct word to describe this guy) VA> who has added words of poisonous vicious attack on RMS on VA> GLIBC README!!!. Fanaticism for any reason is a lost cause. Any reason: whether for or against GPL, for or against MS, for or against ESR or RMS or LT. VA> They want Linux to succeed not "Freedom" My definition of freedom includes the right to let other people release their software under any license they please. I'll still try to convince them to go GPL, I'd be upset if they chose another license, but I wouldn't abuse them. True freedom includes the freedom to err, and no one has the One True Definition of right and wrong. VA> [snip] Regards, -- Raju -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 08:14:15 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Vivekananda Prabhu) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 01:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Freedom to Gaurd my back & to advise others to Gaurd thiers Message-ID: <20010830081415.49178.qmail@web20005.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, This is further to my posting on "OS is as dangerous as MS" & subsequent postings. I am not pressing for a world-wide "Prevention of Non-GPL licences" law, nor am I asking for a law to prevent people from leaving their doors open when they go out or to prevent people to commit suicide My intention is just to warn others who may not understand the full implications of their decisions to use MPL/BSD & variants If any licence is OK & the basic freedom, why do "Open Source" people cry fowl when MS uses this "Freedom" to publish Shared Source/Closed Source software? Aren't they breaching MS "Freedom" to do so? I am not against people making money.But what these "Open Source" guys say is "It is alright if VA, ArsDigita, Caldera make money by writing closed source. But it is wrong if MS does so". If this is not plain hipocrisy what else is? BSD was no lesser technolgically than Linux in it's time. It gave us TCP/IP, Kerberos & what not. But why did it remain an under dog to it's offsprings Solaris, SCO etc.? Because of it's weak licence Sun, SCO etc. could easily steal any new technology from it without contributing their innovations back to it. So BSD always lagged behind these proprietary companies. It also lead these companies to develop incompatible proprietory features which ultimately fragmented Unix market & gave a lee-way for MS to capture the Server market. If Linux had been released under BSD licence it would have met the same fate as BSD for all the technical superiority of Linux for the very same reasons. I am not a "GPL zealot" or "GPL fundamentalist". I also don't hang RMS photo in my study room. Give me any licence that gives me same protection as GPL does (legally) & I have no qualms in using it. It could always be argued that GPL is un-enforcable in India. Then there is also nothing to prevent people from modifying their copy of MS MFC develop software & sell it. Just because 10 robberies happen in the city daily despite all precautions & secuity, I am not going to leave my front door open when I go out. If making money is the only issue the average computer user won't give a damn shit whether MS, VA or Red Hat makes it. If cost is the only issue he/she will not use Linux when he/she can get pirated copy of MS software for same price (which he percieves to be more user-friendly whether someone agrees or not). If technology is the only issue it doesn't matter to 80% of computer users who use MS Word to type letters & MS Excel to manage finances.If security is the only issue Apache was broken into recently (go read the article in their web site). What matters to me is the Freedom to modify the software in anyway I want without limiting the choice of other applications available to me (I or anybody else how ever brilliant cannot write every concievable software even if they write all thier life time). I want source code to all these apps so that I can customize them.For that I want my favourite Free software to have a significant market share. I don't just want this freedom now, I want it for all posterity. I don't want it to fragment or be an under dog to proprietory software & lose it's market share. That is why I recommend GPL After reading my posting if someone decides to use MPL/BSD or MS shared source licence or Closed Source licence I don't give a damn. I also don't give a damn if someone decides to leave thier front door open or decide to commit suicide But please don't question my Freedom of speech to warn others to gaurd thier back by branding me as a GPL zealot Regards, Vivek __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 14:47:45 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:17:45 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] Governments Pushing Open-Source SW Message-ID: For more details check news.com site. -- Raj ============================================================== Governments push open-source software By Paul Festa, Staff Writer, CNET News.com August 29, 2001, 4:00 a.m. PT Governments around the world have found a new rallying cry -- "Software libre!" -- and Microsoft is working overtime to quell it. A recent global wave of legislation is compelling government agencies, and in some cases government-owned companies, to use open-source or free software unless proprietary software is the only feasible option. ============================================================= From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 11:17:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Vivekananda Prabhu) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:17:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] GNU/Linux vs Linux Message-ID: <20010830111752.30953.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, To the un-initiated both GNU/Linux & Linux look one & the same. If you look at the source code or binary executables it is the same. But if you look philosophically at what these stand for they are East & West. GNU/Linux (Free Software) - Freedom first & other benefits last Linux (Open Source) - TCSA ( Technology, Cost, Security & Availability of source code) First & Freedom last But both have a common enemy MS. Which will beat MS Freedom or TCSA? TCSA can never beat MS for the following reasons 1) Technology & Security - MS can easily beat "Linux" easily by ripping off technology from FeeBSD, robustness from OpenBSD , Security from NetBSD & Aqua from Apple & calling the new OS "GATES". This is not hypothetical as MS has already stolen TCP/IP & Kerberos from FreeBSD to become an effective competitor to Unix/Linux (on the server side) 2) Cost - MS can make Windows free (gratis/cost)as it did with IE to kill Netscape, if it starts feeling the heat. It can keep Windows free (cost) for sometime to kill Linux & then start charging sky high prices to compensate the losses. Alternatively it can remove it's new licensing scheme thereby allowing piracy to thrive & kill Linux. That is how MS killed Lotus 1-2-3 , Word Perfect, Borland etc. 3) Availability of source code - People buy Windows to run MS Office, they buy Windows for it's nice GUI & not it's (un)stable kernel. In fact Kernel code is a liability for MS not an asset ( considering development, maintenance & testing costs) I am not surprised if MS makes it's Kernel open source (a la Apple Darwin). The signs are already there ( for those who can see) MS Craig Mundie attends Open Source ( not Free Software) conference. In fact he is invited there to attend FSF conference which he refuses to. Craig Mundie sings paens for BSD licences while critisizing GPL (subtly). Contrary to what most people think MS is not stupid. They are testing waters. If developers don't buy their "Shared Source" vision they will eventually go with Open Source (not Free Software) if that could cut their development, maintenance & testing costs. When that happens we will see Bill G. shaking hands with Open source hot-shots (Co-World domination??). Bill G. & ESR would be praising TCSA quality of Open Source together. After some months we hear that MS is making heavy-duty investments in VA, Read Hat etc. After all Bill G. is a businessman. It doesn't matter to him from where the money comes from Windows or Linux as long as he gets to pocket it. Infact he already *has* investments in Apple, Corel etc. (ex-MS hate club) So MS can beat "Linux" easily in TCSA area, but it cannot beat GNU/Linux in "Freedom". If there is something MS will never give us or (wish to) let us have is "Freedom" I hope this posting opens the eyes of "Linux" people (who dream of beating MS using TCSA aspects of "Linux") to the importance of "Freedom" (read GNU/Linux) But then I can wake only those who are *really* sleeping not those who *pretend* to sleep Regards, Vivek __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 13:03:15 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:33:15 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] [Fwd: he who controls the bootloader] Message-ID: <20010830183315.A1537@GNUhead> -------- Oorspronkelijk bericht -------- Onderwerp: he who controls the bootloader Van: Mark-Jan Bastian Aan: discussion@hippiesfromhell.org An interesting article about an issue that was not widely examined in the Microsoft antitrust trial: http://www.byte.com/documents/s=1115/byt20010824s0001/0827_hacker.html It's about the way Microsoft licenses it's software to OEM's like Dell and Gateway, that prevents non-microsoft OS's to be installed as a dual-boot option on newly shipped PC's. These secret MS-to-OEM licenses (not the EULA license!) have a provision that the pre-installed Microsoft-OS must be loaded by a Microsoft bootloader only. And, the license agreement of the bootloader, states that that bootloader may only be used for booting Microsoft operating systems. This prevents that any OEM can ship a dual-boot system with Windows and another OS. This is needed by alternative OS manufacturers (be it linux, FreeBSD or BeOS) to give any reasonable way to market a different OS, and allow it to gain marketshare. Most joe-sixpack users of PC's don't know that there exists something besides windows. They will only use what is preinstalled, and are not going to do extra steps to buy, download and install alternative OS's. This means that most people also won't have the chance to test alternative operating systems. Installing afterwards will also give more problems than a finetuned linux install that an OEM could deliver, where everything would work first time you turn it on. So, if a OEM like Dell or Gateway wants to give people an option to boot into either Linux or Windows, that is not possible, Microsoft will threaten them by either increasing licensing fees, withdrawing support, or whatever argument they can make to convice them to stick to a Microsoft OS only. Be, Inc, a company that made the BeOS, found this out some time ago, when giving OEM's an option to include a preinstalled BeOS installation for free, besides windows (dual boot). There was a lot of enthusiasm at the OEM's, but once the Microsoft lawyers visted the OEM, and explained their licensing terms again, they all had to refuse the offer of Be, Inc. The interesting thing is that the U.S. antitrust trial was mainly about the browser integration issue, while this bootloader control issue, is much more clear case of anticompetitive behaviour. Mark-Jan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 15:03:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:33:06 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] GNU/Linux vs Linux In-Reply-To: <20010830111752.30953.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010830111752.30953.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010830203306.A907@GNUhead> [Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 04:17:52AM -0700] Vivekananda Prabhu : > MS Craig Mundie attends Open Source ( not Free Software) > conference. In fact he is invited there to attend FSF > conference which he refuses to. Craig Mundie sings paeans > for BSD licenses while criticizing GPL (subtly). He is actually singing 'elegies' for the benefit of our Open Source guys who think that the BSD license is great ! He is doing the bidding of his master to further the goal of 'embracing & extending' all of the software under the Open Source guys' hats. There will be no money to be made by these Open Source guys/developers and by the time they realize this it will be too late and they may have to increase the contrast of their eyes :( M$ would have made 'good, clean' money by 'stealing' the code of our OSS guys; M$ brand of innovation. Craig Mundie cannot answer questions of the Free Software Conference attendees (if he were to attend) because he will start blabbering when the issue of *Software Freedom* is raised. He very well knows that only the GPL can protect an ordinary developer. He fears the GPL and its *fundamentalist brigade* for giving us (the developer and the end-user) *Software Freedom*. The FreeBSD license is a 'black hole' trap because it neither protects the Developer nor makes life easier for the End User. -- GPG: 1024D/F1624A6E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 06:27:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 30 Aug 2001 11:57:56 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86snearrir.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Kalyan Varma writes: > On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Vivekananda Prabhu wrote: > > > Some of them go to the length of saying developers > > Read companies) should have the freedom to choose > > whichever licences they wish to (Notably Tim O'Reilly > > & seconded by Eric S. Raymond).Extending this argument > > even M$ Closed source/Shared Source licences are also > > OK for them. Isn't it? > > You are contradicting yourself. Where the hell is my freedom if I cant > choose the license I want. That is a very naive (and dangerously misleading) interpretation of the word "freedom" propagated by the Open Source camp. In effect, you are accepting a definition of "freedom" formulated by people who themselves don't care about freedom :) Now *there's* your contradiction! Any freedom, the exercising of which takes away the freedom of others is no freedom at all. When a developer chooses to publish his (original) software under a non-copyleft license, he consciously accepts that someone down the line is sooner or later going to lose one or more of the four basic freedoms of Free Software. On the other hand, for an end user with no interest in further development and publishing of the software in question, a non-copyleft but GPL-compatible Free Software license is perfectly fine. > I agree GPL is a good thing, but you cant > go around forcing people to use GPL. Its their choice. The Free Software movement can only advocate the use of particular licenses; it cannot *force* anybody; it does not have the *power* to force. Unless, of course, you are basing your work on a previously GPL'd work in which case you are bound by the "laws of freedom." The word "force" does not apply here. You are under moral and legal obligations to pass on the same freedoms that you received. > mind others using their code , then what the hell is your problem ? > lets say I write a appilication. I really dont give a damn what license > it is under. All I care is that my appilication works.When I use Linux > I dont use it coz it is under GPL. I use it coz its the technology that I > like. I sincerely hope that this mailing list plays some part, however small, in changing this view of yours. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 16:53:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Kalyan Varma) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:23:30 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: <86snearrir.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: On 30 Aug 2001, Khuzaima A. Lakdawala wrote: > That is a very naive (and dangerously misleading) interpretation of > the word "freedom" propagated by the Open Source camp. In effect, you > are accepting a definition of "freedom" formulated by people who > themselves don't care about freedom :) Now *there's* your > contradiction! > > Any freedom, the exercising of which takes away the freedom of others is > no freedom at all. According to the Oxford Dictonary Freedom = Condition of being free and unrestricted Freedom = Having personal rights and social and political liberty When I write code ( original from scratch ) I own the code. If my main aim is to make money, I sell it as a proprietary software like any of the traditional company. If I want to make money and still want people to see the code, I release it under the Open Source License. If I want other to take and , modify it, and redistribute it then I would release it under GPL. The choice is mine. So I have my personal rights on the code and am unrestricted by any other licenses. So I have freedom here. Now you are saying I *must* release it under GPL to give freedom to others. So dont I loose my freedom to choose now ??? If I personally at some point write code I will release it under GPL. I believe it it. However just coz someone does not release code under GPL, you cant point at him and say he is taking away everyones freedom. - -kalyan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 31 12:15:31 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Vivekananda Prabhu) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 05:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Making money from GPLed (Free) Software Message-ID: <20010831121531.61888.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, One of the common refrains I hear about GPL from Open Source/Closed Source guys is you cannot make money by writing GPLed software. You need a proprietory licence or Open Source MPL/BSD to make money. Ofcourse you can make money writing GPLed software. But the business model is different than making money using MPL/BSD or proprietory licenses. Proprietory/ Open Source models depend on "Branding" to get VC funding & run the business profitably (1). To have an effective branding you need USPs (Unique Selling Propositions). This ultimately leads to some really useful modules being Closed source ( irrespective of the licence claiming to be Open Source) In GPL model you make money by offering Services (not selling software alone). You could sell "Free" software but your USP will be the quality of service (QOS) you offer in installing/setting up software, software customization, training, maintenance & technical support. The only difference will be some high-flying VC will not be funding you. You really need to sweat it out. Anyway it is not bad as you won't have a black-suited guy who doesn't know ABCD of software controlling your every action.There is no danger that he (VC) will pull-out his investments when things are not green & your Co. joins the long list of Dot.gone companies You can win & keep clients only by offering first-class services. Any second-class, third-class service will not do (otherwise he will go to others GPL grants him the freedom to do so).Word of mouth is very important. Nobody can lock-in customers by offering third-class proprietory solutions (you actually are *stealing* customers freedom in doing so by using BSD/MPL) & denying him & others from improving the software beyond what you have given ( You might have given him A grade product but he wants A+ one & doesn't like to pay you. May be he doesn't like your QOS or price) Considering the Freedom GPL gives to end-users I am beginning to wonder why doesn't a Consumer Forum (not FSF/RMS) ask for a ban on Non-GPL software to safe guard consumer interests Increasingly we are seeing BSD/MPL being used as sugar-coated "poison candy" by companies to trap & lock-in users. I suggest that a law be passed that these software carry a warning "B grade. Expect Non-Free 'A' grade software soon which is injurious to your freedom " the way cigarette packs carry the message "Smoking cigarettes is injurious to health". After reading this message if someone decides to use such S/W ar smoke cigarettes it is thier funeral (freedom), but let us guard their "Freedom for Information" (Just joking don't brand me as a person conspiring to steal others freedom which I am not) Well developing GPLed software you can still make money. But you cannot make money sacrificing ethics (stealing customer freedom) as GPL will not allow you to do it the way MPL/BSD do. You really do need to sweat it out. Do you have it in you? GPLed software will give money to meet everyones needs but not everyones greeds. Come on, we leave in a country where people buy cars, houses & make a posh living selling Idlis & Dosas which donot carry any IP or licence in roadside shops. There are companies that package it in vaccuum packs & make money. It is the quality of service that brings in (more) money. Software is also a commodity to be sold in bulk in the Bazaar (Both RMS & ESR agree to this point). The only difference is that these shops or packaging companies do not intend to make proprietory extensions to Idli & patent/copy right it. That is why we don't need GPL here.But in S/W there are M$ & others waiting to steal our freedom & choices, so we need GPL. Infact there is lot of opportunity for making money using GPLed software in India. Around 90% people don't own PCs yet (aren't addicted to Windows yet).When our stupid government removes import duties on H/W making the PCs cheaper a whole lot of people will be buying it. This is an opportunity for us to grow. Around 60%-70% of our population donot know English. They want software in local languages.They cannot afford XP (because of WPA & price), Win XX doesn't give this choice to them. We can give them that choice using Indigo A whole lot of people do not know installing/setting up software. There is money to be made here. A whole lot of home users, companies need Financial software (GnuCash) which is customized to their taste & requirements. Any software including supposedly user friendly M$ Office needs training. There is money *here*. You only need to keep you eyes & ears open If you go to Banta Singh (sorry for racial stereo stypes you can even read it as Banta Prabhu if you are offended) from Jhumri Talaiyya & tell him about "linux" technology & security, IBM clustering, loadable Kernel modules etc. He will say "Duh!". He is more than happy using Windowz. You give him an assembled PC pre-loaded with GNU/Linux, any software customized or otherwise in his own language, any training he needs & maintenance he needs he will buy it. But even OSS guys can do it or even pirated software guys selling Windowz. So what is Free Software USP? We say to Banta "Look Boss (customer is our king). I am not locking-in or trapping you in anyway. I am giving you *complete* source (code). If tommorrow I close shop or you don't like my source you can go to any XYZ to do anything you want with the software". He will be amazed & ask you "How do you plan to make money in the future?". You smile & say "By giving you a better quality of service & offering you reasonable prices". He will then trust you & tell these OSS & pirated software guys to scoot. They can't tell him the same thing without telling lies(fully or partially).Even if they lie they cannot fool all the people all the time. So hackers start writing code in GPL & close your ears for all MPL/BSD marketing & FUD Regards, Vivek __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 31 13:03:34 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Kalyan Varma) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:33:34 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Making money from GPLed (Free) Software In-Reply-To: <20010831121531.61888.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Vivekananda Prabhu wrote: > Ofcourse you can make money writing GPLed software. > But the business model is different than making money > using MPL/BSD or proprietory licenses. > In GPL model you make money by offering Services (not > selling software alone). You could sell "Free" > software but your USP will be the quality of service > (QOS) you offer in installing/setting up software, > software customization, training, maintenance & > technical support. I dont really see anything wrong selling GPL based software. I mean Red Hat for example, gives you the OS free, However the box pack with the printed manuals and stuff is expensive. Red Hat does make money on those Box Packs still being GPLed. RMS himself used to sell early versions of emacs, but had also make a copy of it avilable on the web for free. He did make living by selloing emacs on those old tapes. > Considering the Freedom GPL gives to end-users I am > beginning to wonder why doesn't a Consumer Forum (not > FSF/RMS) ask for a ban on Non-GPL software to safe > guard consumer interests You do have to realise that not all Computer companies can survive by just offering servies. Lets say MS releases windows under GPL, knowing MS it would make windowz *not so user friendly*. Only that way people will come back to these companies for services. IF the software works fine, why would anyone need service..... So the quality of the software will suffer in this case. So if you ban all non-GPL software... many companies will fall. So instead of banning, we spread awareness , telling people, the kind of freedom the people will enjoy using GPL sofware. - -kalyan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 31 13:27:14 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:57:14 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Making money from GPLed (Free) Software In-Reply-To: <20010831121531.61888.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com>; from vivekbp@yahoo.com on Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 05:15:31AM -0700 References: <20010831121531.61888.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010831185714.C587@orion> Hi vivek, I feel that in all of your writings you confuses between GNU GPL, BSD, Free Software, Open Source etc. GNU GPL != Free Software, BSD is not anti Free Software. Open Source I dont think is about anti GNU GPL even if its not primarily about Fredom and Free Software. > One of the common refrains I hear about GPL from Open > Source/Closed Source guys is you cannot make money by > writing GPLed software. You need a proprietory licence > or Open Source MPL/BSD to make money. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 31 13:09:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:39:00 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: ; from kalyan@exocore.com on Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:23:30PM +0530 References: <86snearrir.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <20010831183900.B587@orion> > According to the Oxford Dictonary > > Freedom = Condition of being free and unrestricted > Freedom = Having personal rights and social and political liberty Sure, and your 'personal rights' ends where it can hurt another persons Freedom. (Hope you wont ask for Freedom to shoot your friend. ;) ) > When I write code ( original from scratch ) I own the code. > If my main aim is to make money, I sell it as a proprietary software like > any of the traditional company. If I want to make money and still want > people to see the code, I release it under the Open Source License. > If I want other to take and , modify it, and redistribute it then I would > release it under GPL. The choice is mine. So I have my personal rights on > the code and am unrestricted by any other licenses. So I have freedom > here. Now you are saying I *must* release it under GPL to give freedom to > others. I will say you *must* release it as Free Software (FreeSoftware != GPL) since I think that is the right way to go. But I am not going to point a gun at you and ask to do the same. > So dont I loose my freedom to choose now ??? Shouldnt you, if it hurt some others Freedom ? From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 16:20:20 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 30 Aug 2001 21:50:20 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: <15245.10628.282676.90341@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> <15245.10628.282676.90341@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <86ae0hh64b.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raju Mathur writes: > >>>>> "VA" == Vivekananda Prabhu writes: > > VA> The real issues here is *ethics*. > > VA> The so-called Open Source guys are here to make *money* > VA> period. Though open source definition looks deceptively > VA> similar to Free Software definition including half-hearted > VA> endorsement of GPL, the real issues are more deeper & subtle > VA> (for the casual reader) > > I'm in it to make money. Does that make me an outcast from the Free > Software community? It has been stressed repeatedly by many in the Free Software community that "Free Software is not anti-business." Nobody is implying that you can't be "in it to make money." However, you cannot compromise on the basic principles of freedom, justify these compromises on the basis of financial considerations, and still claim to be part of the community. This is *precisely* what VA Linux just did, ESR's feeble "clarifications" notwithstanding. When money becomes the sole concern and making money becomes the *only* goal, then no movement can succeed. What the Free Software Movement needs from the business community are ethical and morally upright business persons who can come up with business models which can sustain themselves without compromising on the basic principles of freedom. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 31 13:48:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:18:08 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [Commercial] Sysdmins and Tech Support Guys needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1053.192.168.0.2.999265688.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> hi, Archean is looking out for *nix Sys Admins/Network Admins ,Anyone out there who want to work on *nix ;-) Knowledge in any one or more of below *nix Clusters. Mail Servers. Web Servers. Maintaining heterogeneous networks. Anyone interested can mail to career@archeanit.com or call at the given no's anytime of the day. P.S : Please dont post ur resumes/enquiries to the list. Kind regards S.Goswami --------------------------------------------- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Wed Aug 1 03:54:50 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Kalyan Varma) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:24:50 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] (DMCA) In-Reply-To: <3B66F024.8EDFC28E@eth.net> Message-ID: There will be no big impact with a protest here. However we have to make sure a law like DMCA is not passed in our country. - -kalyan On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, M Balakrishna Pillai wrote: > > dear freedom fighters > > I think we should chart out and execute protest. Some body come > forward and co-ordinate it. > > M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Wed Aug 1 10:16:16 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 15:46:16 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Debian Multimedia Project (DeMuDi) Message-ID: <3B67D6F0.51751E14@ti.com> May be of interest to some one in this list.. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ The Debian Multimedia Distribution[1] (DeMuDi) project is an effort to build a Linux distribution for the purpose of multimedia work. The Debian GNU/Linux distribution already contains the tools for building and maintaining such a distribution and will serve as the basis for this distribution. Current Linux distributions either target web applications and services or on desktop machines. Multimedia and specifically multimedia production capabilities have only recently been well integrated into the Linux kernel. Curently, people who are interested in using the power of Linux to do multimedia and artistic work must compile programs on their own and face issues such as incompatible interfaces, availability of hardware drivers and several other related issues, lowering to a considerable amount artistic productivity. The Debian Multimedia Distribution tries to overcome these problems by providing a customized distribution specifically for this kind of user. The package list[2] contains prepackaged programs chosen by DeMuDi that the user can easily install onto his system to have a fully-functional multimedia workspace. Many packages targeted for integration into DeMuDi are already packaged and part of the Debian distribution. DeMuDi is supported by the following organizations: . Free Software Foundation Europe[3] . Computer Music Institute[4], Firenze . Verein für experimentelle Datenverarbeitung[5], Vienna Links: 1. http://www.demudi.org/ 2. http://gige.xdv.org/pages/DeMuDi/pages/packages 3. http://www.fsfeurope.org/ 4. http://www.centrotemporeale.it/ 5. http://www.xdv.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Wed Aug 1 15:00:34 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R.Lakshmikanth) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 20:30:34 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Video CD Player for Linux.... Message-ID: <011301c11a9a$dd62a5c0$23b409ca@eth.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C11AC8.D0F6C860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi folks, I'm a new entrant in the mailing list. I work in Odyssey technologies = Ltd., Chennai. I'm using Linux for the past three years. RH 7.1 is my flavour now. I'm actually looking for a good Video CD Player for Linux.=20 Please gimme links from where I can download the player. Thanx in = advance. With Warm Regards, R.Lakshmikanth. ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C11AC8.D0F6C860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi folks,
     
     I'm a new entrant = in the mailing=20 list. I work in Odyssey technologies Ltd., = Chennai.
     
     I'm using Linux for the past = three years. RH=20 7.1 is my flavour now.
     
     I'm actually looking for a good = Video CD=20 Player for Linux.
     
     Please gimme links from where I = can download=20 the player. Thanx in advance.
     
    With Warm=20 Regards,
    R.Lakshmikanth.
    ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01C11AC8.D0F6C860-- From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Wed Aug 1 16:27:23 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 21:57:23 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Video CD Player for Linux.... In-Reply-To: <011301c11a9a$dd62a5c0$23b409ca@eth.net> References: <011301c11a9a$dd62a5c0$23b409ca@eth.net> Message-ID: <20010801215723.A2756@debianut.ekmnet> [Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 08:30:34PM +0530] R.Lakshmikanth : > actually looking for a good Video CD Player for Linux. Get hold of Xine, the best one around. The URL for this is http://xine.sourceforge.net/ Xine plays MPEG system streams (ie. MPEG videos with sound). In contrast to many other players, it does its best to synchronize audio and video. This wonderful program is getting better & better, tnx to the GNU GPL... -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Keeping the Air-Waves FREE...........Amateur Radio Keeping your Software FREE.........the GNU Project Keeping the W W W FREE....Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 03:52:50 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:22:50 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: <3B665625.1A038AF2@nsc.ernet.in> <2136.192.168.0.2.996591370.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9E04AF44A64EE27E38C1B13B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Satyakam Goswami wrote: > hi, > i am working on a draft proposal for use of GNU/Linux in Schools anybody > intrested in these kind of projects or if they are already working on something > like this i would be glad to learn about it. This is a very important step. Probably the first thing to be done is to provide help for installing GNU/Linux in schools having computers already. Present status at many places is, they just have MSWindows running and the "Educational Software" is MS-Office. But without an easy to use word processor, many won't switch over. I use 'abiword' and find it very good. Another aspect is the kind of machines owned by achools. Many may have Pentium-I machines still running. RedHat 7.1 or any latest distributions are not going to run on it comfortably. They can run as good X-terminals. One good place to look for is the Linux Terminal Server Project homepage. www.ltsp.org. A networked system is anyway a must in schools to have teacher-student interaction. ajith --------------9E04AF44A64EE27E38C1B13B Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------9E04AF44A64EE27E38C1B13B-- From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 03:54:49 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:24:49 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: <3B66E628.46056B57@eth.net> Message-ID: <3B68CF09.380A7CB0@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0D66FED829084C40913E7C5A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit M Balakrishna Pillai wrote: > Probably for SuSE advantage. Here in Kochi raoo is distributing Debian > GNU/Linux at Rs.100/- for 3 CDS (this man, I think, is not taking any > profit.) > like to get the address of the place in Cochin. Does he sent it by post. Like to know the details. ajith --------------0D66FED829084C40913E7C5A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------0D66FED829084C40913E7C5A-- From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 04:49:30 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Mohit Agarwal) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:19:30 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: Today at 09:22 +0530, Ajith Kumar wrote: : Present status at many places is, they just have MSWindows running and : the "Educational Software" is MS-Office. But without an easy to use : word processor, many won't switch over. I use 'abiword' and find it : very good. Another aspect is the kind of machines owned by achools. I looked at `abiword' for the first time today. It seems to resemble the M$ windoughs `word' perfectly! Have you ever heard of something called TeX or LaTeX? A program called `lyx' -- distributed under the GNU GPL -- is aimed aimed specifically for those who haven't heard of LaTeX, or are afraid to learn it. It's provides a WYSYWYG interface to LaTeX, and is indeed very simple, and much less frustrating than the windoughs `word'. mohit From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 05:09:01 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:39:01 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, A quick intro - I'm 20 yr chap doing my 4th year Chemical Engg. at IIT Madras. > This is a very important step. Probably the first thing to be done is to provide > help for installing GNU/Linux in schools having computers already. Present Accept every word. The problem is, as most of you will accept, a lack of awareness about Linux and "fundaes" in general. I was in Trichy recently, doing my summer job in BHEL there. They use all Windows 2K machines. I started talking with the people about trying out Linux and they'd ask me questions like after I have Linux can I still boot into Windows, how can there be two different OSes on the same machine, won't it delete all my files, and worst of all, IS IT SECURE!! It took me one hour to convince them to finally try Linux and the guys there are actually pretty happy about it. The point is, inspite of the huge media attention Linux is getting these days, *LOTS* of people still have no idea about it. So, getting people to try out Linux implies that you'll have to spend quite some time discussing the various issues in favour of Linux, get the teachers familiarised with it, lots of patience etc. It would be great if we could get more volunteers in this regard. I'm ready from Chennai (and places in and around it .. I love driving :-) > status at many places is, they just have MSWindows running and the > "Educational Software" is MS-Office. But without an easy to use word processor, > many won't switch over. I use 'abiword' and find it very good. > Another aspect is the kind of machines owned by achools. Many may have > Pentium-I machines still running. RedHat 7.1 or any latest distributions are > not going to run on it comfortably. They can run as good X-terminals. One > good place to look for is the Linux Terminal Server Project homepage. > www.ltsp.org. A networked system is anyway a must in schools to have > teacher-student interaction. Abiword is good. I'd actually suggest Star-Office. The nice thing about having people start off with Star-Office is the ability to have them save their files in native Windows formats like .doc, .ppt etc. I mean, if a teacher has to, say, give a presentation, the machine she'd use to give it would more probably than not, have Win on it. Until and unless they have Linux on all machines, we'd rather not assume so. Regarding the OS flavour, I'm pretty much in favour of LTSP. On the server, personally, I'd say Red Hat 6.2 over 7.1. Don't aske me why ... I just find it a *LOT* more comfortable, and definitely so for a newbie. Just a personal opinion. I might have made some extremely stupid/WRONG statements in the paragraphs above. If you find something wrong, feel free to flame me :-). Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 05:32:29 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:02:29 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: ; from ch98086@che.iitm.ac.in on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:39:01AM +0530 References: Message-ID: <20010802110229.B5656@mailandnews.com> On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:39:01AM +0530, R Sai Kiran wrote: > > Accept every word. The problem is, as most of you will accept, a > lack of awareness about Linux .... The most important fact that people have to be aware of is that the operating system is GNU and not linux. Popularity of this OS or the number of people using it is not, and never was the objective behind developing a free OS. If people are not aware of their freedoms, what do they benefit from this free OS. (forget technical merrits, since all OSes have their technical merrits). Please make it a practice to say GNU/Linux (or just GNU if GNU/Linux is too long) when you speak of the OS. Otherwise we will be defeating its fundamental goal. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 05:46:59 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:16:59 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1067.192.168.0.8.996731219.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > > Hi, > > A quick intro - I'm 20 yr chap doing my 4th year Chemical Engg. at > IIT Madras. > >> This is a very important step. Probably the first thing to be done is to >> provide help for installing GNU/Linux in schools having computers already. >> Present > > Accept every word. The problem is, as most of you will accept, a > lack of awareness about Linux and "fundaes" in general. I was in Trichy > recently, doing my summer job in BHEL there. They use all Windows 2K > machines. I started talking with the people about trying out Linux and > they'd ask me questions like after I have Linux can I still boot into > Windows, how can there be two different OSes on the same machine, won't it > delete all my files, and worst of all, IS IT SECURE!! It took me one hour > to convince them to finally try Linux and the guys there are actually > pretty happy about it. The point is, inspite of the huge media attention > Linux is getting these days, *LOTS* of people still have no idea about it. > So, getting people to try out Linux implies that you'll have to spend quite > some time discussing the various issues in favour of Linux, get the > teachers familiarised with it, lots of patience etc. It would be great if > we could get more volunteers in this regard. I'm ready from Chennai (and > places in and around it .. I love driving :-) this is a good approach, it works every time for mee too :) As for the volunteers there are two fellas from the local lug who have shown intrest lets see how many like minded ppl can get together and work for the cause. > >> status at many places is, they just have MSWindows running and the >> "Educational Software" is MS-Office. But without an easy to use word >> processor, many won't switch over. I use 'abiword' and find it very good. >> Another aspect is the kind of machines owned by achools. Many may have >> Pentium-I machines still running. RedHat 7.1 or any latest distributions >> are not going to run on it comfortably. They can run as good X-terminals. >> One good place to look for is the Linux Terminal Server Project homepage. >> www.ltsp.org. A networked system is anyway a must in schools to have >> teacher-student interaction. i will have a look at it. > > Abiword is good. I'd actually suggest Star-Office. The nice thing > about having people start off with Star-Office is the ability to have them > save their files in native Windows formats like .doc, .ppt etc. I mean, if > a teacher has to, say, give a presentation, the machine she'd use to give > it would more probably than not, have Win on it. Until and unless they have > Linux on all machines, we'd rather not assume so. Regarding the OS flavour, > I'm pretty much in favour of LTSP. On the server, personally, I'd say Red > Hat 6.2 over 7.1. Don't aske me why ... I just find it a *LOT* more > comfortable, and definitely so for a newbie. Just a personal opinion. i think we will stick on with Open Office in the true spirit of Free Software. > > I might have made some extremely stupid/WRONG statements in > the paragraphs above. If you find something wrong, feel free to flame me > :-). cheers S.Goswami ------------------------------------- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 05:53:28 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:23:28 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: <3B665625.1A038AF2@nsc.ernet.in> <2136.192.168.0.2.996591370.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> Satyakam Goswami wrote: > > i am working on a draft proposal for use of GNU/Linux in Schools anybody > intrested in these kind of projects or if they are already working on something > like this i would be glad to learn about it. I think LTSP is the way to go. There is also a K12-LTSP project specifically aimed at schools. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 06:15:53 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:45:53 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> References: <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> Message-ID: <1375.192.168.0.2.996732953.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > i am working on a draft proposal for use of GNU/Linux in Schools >> anybody >> intrested in these kind of projects or if they are already working on >> something like this i would be glad to learn about it. > > I think LTSP is the way to go. There is also a K12-LTSP project > specifically aimed at schools. > i will check that cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 06:16:25 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Jayan S R) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:46:25 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] Windoze syllabus for +2 In-Reply-To: <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> Message-ID: what can we do about this? The KV school syllabus for Computer Science 11th and 12th have changed last year from C ans C++ to the following. 11 Std consists of Fox pro programming and M$ Word 12 Std consists of Fox pro advanced programming and Advanced -:) Windoze Word and Excel. something should be done about this or else all the students will be brain damaged. regards -- jsr From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 06:38:33 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:08:33 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <1067.192.168.0.8.996731219.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: Hi, > i think we will stick on with Open Office in the true spirit of Free > Software. I have'nt yet tried the Open Office. Will download it today. If it is pretty much the same as Star Office, except for the licensing, I guess it would be just GREAT. And Pappu, point noted. Thanks. The GNU is the way to go :-) Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 09:17:57 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:47:57 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] Windoze syllabus for +2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1204.192.168.0.8.996743877.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > 11 Std consists of Fox pro programming and M$ Word > > 12 Std consists of Fox pro advanced programming and Advanced -:) Windoze > Word and Excel. > > something should be done about this or else all the students will be brain > damaged. We can contact the Kendriya Vidyalaya Sangathan in delhi may be FSF can pursue this issue. cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 09:54:11 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 15:24:11 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Windoze syllabus for +2 References: Message-ID: <3B692343.BF272DA6@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------383C0F3949D5490482B38CEE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jayan S R wrote: > what can we do about this? > > The KV school syllabus for Computer Science 11th and 12th have changed > last year from C ans C++ to the following. > > 11 Std consists of Fox pro programming and M$ Word > > 12 Std consists of Fox pro advanced programming and Advanced -:) Windoze > Word and Excel. > Including the products from specific vendors in the syllabus of a course only shows the lack of understanding of those who did it. It is perfectly okey to teach a language like C or C++ but instead of Fox-Pro, it should have been RDBMS systems and SQL with example systems. It is a waste of time to comment on the logic of including Word or Excel in a syllabus. Anyway this should bu pointed out to the attention of those who are responsible. ajith --------------383C0F3949D5490482B38CEE Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------383C0F3949D5490482B38CEE-- From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:10:05 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 15:40:05 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: Message-ID: <3B6926FD.CB02FB5B@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8AEB0696164008BE8547E240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit R Sai Kiran wrote: > Hi, > > A quick intro - I'm 20 yr chap doing my 4th year Chemical Engg. at > IIT Madras. > So, getting people to try out Linux implies that you'll have to spend > quite some time discussing the various issues in favour of Linux, get the > teachers familiarised with it, lots of patience etc. It would be great if > we could get more volunteers in this regard. I'm ready from Chennai (and > places in and around it .. I love driving :-) > What you should do is write to the heads of few colleges and schools about Free software offering a talk and demonstration. Talk should stress more on the philosophy of 'freedom' and demo should talk about the technical merits. If you can rent an LCD projector and show something like 'gimp', even the diehard Window user will have second thoughts. If you don't talk about the philosophy behind 'free sofware', always there will be people trying to compare MS with GNU/Linux by bringing out irrelevent details. It is difficult to convince an average user about the quality and reliability of an OS but he will easily see the 'advantage ' of having two more fonts supported by his word processor. Anyway these are my personal *untested* opinion only. ajith > > > status at many places is, they just have MSWindows running and the > > "Educational Software" is MS-Office. But without an easy to use word processor, > > many won't switch over. I use 'abiword' and find it very good. > > Another aspect is the kind of machines owned by achools. Many may have > > Pentium-I machines still running. RedHat 7.1 or any latest distributions are > > not going to run on it comfortably. They can run as good X-terminals. One > > good place to look for is the Linux Terminal Server Project homepage. > > www.ltsp.org. A networked system is anyway a must in schools to have > > teacher-student interaction. > > Abiword is good. I'd actually suggest Star-Office. The nice thing > about having people start off with Star-Office is the ability to have them > save their files in native Windows formats like .doc, .ppt etc. I mean, if > a teacher has to, say, give a presentation, the machine she'd use to give > it would more probably than not, have Win on it. Until and unless they > have Linux on all machines, we'd rather not assume so. Regarding the OS > flavour, I'm pretty much in favour of LTSP. On the server, personally, I'd > say Red Hat 6.2 over 7.1. Don't aske me why ... I just find it a *LOT* > more comfortable, and definitely so for a newbie. Just a personal opinion. > > I might have made some extremely stupid/WRONG statements in > the paragraphs above. If you find something wrong, feel free to flame me > :-). > > Regards, > > Sai > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Recursion n: > See Recursion > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 > > _______________________________________________ > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india --------------8AEB0696164008BE8547E240 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------8AEB0696164008BE8547E240-- From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 09:57:43 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Vivek Agarwal) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:27:43 +0530 Subject: [Life] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01080215274304.00761@vivek> Hi, this is vivek agarwal. I am the CEO of egurucool.com. We offer a range courses to the students in schools through an intranet offering. This is a NT based application..please let me know the details of what exactly you are proposing for schools and let me see if we can hook in any way.. vivek On Tuesday 31 July 2001 11:28 pm, Frederick Noronha wrote: > Hi, There's a LIFE mailing list, running from Mumbai. Contact > life@mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in It's run from the Tata Institute of Fundamental > Research by Prof Nagarajuna. > Do send me your draft proposal too. Frederick Noronha, Freelance > Journalist, Goa. > > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Satyakam Goswami wrote: > > hi, > > i am working on a draft proposal for use of GNU/Linux in Schools > > anybody intrested in these kind of projects or if they are already > > working on something like this i would be glad to learn about it. > > > > cheers > > S.Goswami > > > > > > --------------------------------------- > > Archean Infotech > > Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar > > Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com > > Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 > > Mobile:9849016667 > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > This email was sent using SquirrelMail. > > "Webmail for nuts!" > > http://squirrelmail.org/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india > > _______________________________________________ > LIFE mailing list > LIFE@mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in > http://mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in/mailman/listinfo/life From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:17:36 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:47:36 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <00cb01c119d5$2123b040$2600a8c0@2> References: <00cb01c119d5$2123b040$2600a8c0@2> Message-ID: <1421.192.168.0.8.996747456.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > U might be aware of Life (linux for education) which was started by > Nagarjuna G. at Tata institute of Fund. Research. > > There are few gathered at mailing list for the purpose and all would be > able to find more like minded over there. There site is down and i tried calling nagarjun's number in Mumbai, nobody responded. S.Goswami ________________________________________ Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:31:48 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Parag Mehta) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 03:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <1421.192.168.0.8.996747456.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: Hi Satyakam, well nagarjuna is in hyderabad currently. his father is seriously ill and nobody other than him knows much about the serves and the mailing lists he runs in hbcse. regards, parag mehta. PS: i'll try to check as to what is wrong in life ml. i have access to that. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:38:05 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Parag Mehta) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 03:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <1421.192.168.0.8.996747456.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: Hi, i don't think the mailing list of LIFE is down. i just checked and it seems to be working fine. regards, parag mehta From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:57:16 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:27:16 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. Message-ID: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> Hello ever since I posted the MEC link (of RMS' talk at MEC) to linuxtoday.com and LWN, there had been a lot of activity, and people around the world are trying to download the Ogg files. Unfortunately the MEC website is terribly slow, and I had been getting mails asking me to setup a fast mirror. Since I have nothing to do with the recordings (I have those files with me though, I downloaded it before announcing it to the world anticipating problem), I had been redirecting those requests to other people in the college, and also to ragu who is near the college. I would like to have those files put on some fast webspace setup somewhere. I can put those files on a CD and send them to anyone (though it will occupy only small space of that CD). It is around 85MB. Some people in the US are trying to make a mirror, but they too couldn't download the whole thing due to bad connection. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 11:37:57 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (kiron v) Date: 2 Aug 2001 11:37:57 -0000 Subject: [FSF-India] Hi Message-ID: <20010802113757.22686.qmail@mailFA2.rediffmail.com> Hello, I am a new member in this mailing list. I am Kiron, a 3rd year Computer Science & Engg. student of the College of Engineering, Trivandrum. _________________________________________________________ For Rs. 2,000,000 worth of Aptech scholarships click below http://events.rediff.com/aptechsch/scholarship.htm From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:23:19 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Santhosh=20Narayana?=) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:23:19 +0100 (BST) Subject: [FSF-India] Anybody doing Free Software Projects in India Message-ID: <20010802102319.19569.qmail@web8005.mail.in.yahoo.com> Hi there, I'm a newbie to the list. Doing V Semester, GDIT, IIIT-Hyd. In IIIT-Hyd, 70% of programming is in Linux. Establishment of FSF-India is a brilliant move. Now its time to open a GNU/Linux Software Development Pool with in the FSF-India. Yes we should actively spread GNU/Linux solutions in India for their mere reliability alone. Affordability is an added reason. It's been long we keep using developed packages from the west. SuSe has a total german distribution of GNU/Linux. Aryabhatta Linux, an ambitious project reg the same was started by some members of ilughyd. May be we need to coordinate and bring together all the GNU/Linux developers onto a common platform and start working on good projects. Linux is a big success in China. If such an initiative materializes, pls inform for we would surely join hands minds for the same. -- Santhosh(99055) santhosh@gdit.iiit.net "GNU/Linux opens doors, not windows" ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? For regular News updates go to http://in.news.yahoo.com From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 11:48:21 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:18:21 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 at 16:27, Ramakrishnan M wrote: I would like to have those files put on some fast webspace setup somewhere. I can put those files on a CD and send them to anyone (though it will occupy only small space of that CD). It is around 85MB. Some people in the US are trying to make a mirror, but they too couldn't download the whole thing due to bad connection. I can help, please send me the CD. We can put these in the FSF site which is an independent server in UK and fast. No worries on space, we have enough. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 12:39:24 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satish Babu) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 05:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> Message-ID: <20010802123924.17169.qmail@web5105.mail.yahoo.com> I can offer this space on our US server, provided an IP-based URL is OK (something like http://203.200.144.114/rms_talk.ogg). It'll take me until tomorrow to get permission from the Administrators, though. Ciao Satish --- Ramakrishnan M wrote: > I would like to have those files put on some fast > webspace setup somewhere. I > can put those files on a CD and send them to anyone > (though it will occupy only > small space of that CD). It is around 85MB. Some __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 12:59:58 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Jeffrin Jose T.) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:29:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> References: <3B665625.1A038AF2@nsc.ernet.in> <2136.192.168.0.2.996591370.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <3B68EAD8.43625DCE@ti.com> Message-ID: <20010802182958.C1366@msservices.org> Hello , GNU/Linux Terminal Server for schools. A package for easy GNU/Linux terminal server installation. http://freshmeat.net/redir/termserv/16721/url_homepage/ For Debian GNU/Linux user's deb http://termserv.berlios.de/debian stable main can help. -- Jeffrin Jose T. Mission System's and Services. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 13:02:57 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:32:57 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Anybody doing Free Software Projects in India In-Reply-To: <20010802102319.19569.qmail@web8005.mail.in.yahoo.com>; from santhosh2708@yahoo.co.in on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:23:19AM +0100 References: <20010802102319.19569.qmail@web8005.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010802183257.A9602@mailandnews.com> On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 11:23:19AM +0100, Santhosh Narayana wrote: > Yes we should actively spread GNU/Linux solutions in > India for their mere reliability alone. Affordability > is an added reason. Freedom is the primary reason. Others just comes along. > > GNU/Linux. Aryabhatta Linux, an ambitious project reg > the same was started by some members of ilughyd. May > be we need to coordinate and bring together all the > GNU/Linux developers onto a common platform and start > working on good projects. Are you hinting towards a new distribution? > > If such an initiative materializes, pls inform for we > would surely join hands minds for the same. If you are talking of free software development, check out On the other hand, if you are talking of yet another distribution, is it really required? bye, pappu. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 13:27:57 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Mohit Agarwal) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:57:57 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> Message-ID: Today at 16:27 +0530, Ramakrishnan M wrote: : ever since I posted the MEC link (of RMS' talk at MEC) to linuxtoday.com and : LWN, there had been a lot of activity, and people around the world are trying : to download the Ogg files. Unfortunately the MEC website is terribly slow, and [...] : I would like to have those files put on some fast webspace setup somewhere. I Well, you can access the files at: http://ramanujan.aero.iisc.ernet.in/RMS-Jul2001/ ftp://ramanujan.aero.iisc.ernet.in/RMS-Jul2001/ mohit From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 13:48:31 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:18:31 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GPL to be tested in court (maybe) Message-ID: <15209.23087.239375.788934@mail.linux-delhi.org> http://www.linuxgram.com/article.pl?sid=01/07/24/1456206 [Excerpt] NuSphere Sued for Breaking GPL Tuesday, July 24th, 2001 by G2News Relations between NuSphere and MySQL have come a cropper. MySQL AB, the Swedish software house that developed the MySQL database, has terminated its distribution arrangement with NuSphere. NuSphere says it can?t. NuSphere is suing MySQL for breach of contract and MySQL has countersued for trademark infringement, slapping NuSphere with a secondary, but very incendiary, claim of breaking the GPL. Regards, -- Raju -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 13:54:03 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:24:03 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <3B6926FD.CB02FB5B@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: Hi, > What you should do is write to the heads of few colleges and schools about > Free software offering a talk and demonstration. We've actually got lot more work to do before that. I'd seriously suggest that the "GNU/Linux for Schools Project" be added to the FSF-I Projects page in the FSF-I website. We *need* volunteers. What I think we should do is decide upon a set of software most relevant to schools and pack it up into a CD. What should be included and what should'nt can be the subject of an interesting thread. I mean, some of the members of the list may have objections in including stuff whivh is not 'GPL'ed. But, I think that any Linux distro which does'nt have, say, Pine, is BAD (just a personal opinion, I *love* Pine). > Talk should stress more on the philosophy of 'freedom' and demo should > talk about the technical merits. If you can rent an LCD projector and > show something like 'gimp', even the diehard Window user will have > second thoughts. Oh, there are far too many things we can talk about, which I'm sure will impress the Windows guys. I was actually asked to give a talk on GNU/Linux during my summer job. Unfortunately, that got packed due to the political happenings in Tamilnadu that weekend :-(. I had prepared a good list of stuff to talk about. GIMP is definitely one of the best examples. Others would be the ability of Abiword, Gnumeric etc. to save files in PDF format, the X-window system, the KOffice suite (I have'nt really used it extensively, but it's cool. You can embed a doc in a chart etc.), the Apache webserver (which Microsoft still uses on the Hotmail servers) ... the list just keeps going on and on and ..... > If you don't talk about the philosophy behind 'free sofware', always > there will be people trying to compare MS with GNU/Linux by bringing > out irrelevent details. It is difficult to convince an average user > about the quality and reliability of an OS but he will easily see the > 'advantage ' of having two more fonts supported by his word processor. Yes...the main purpose is to spread the philosophy. But, we should'nt directly attack from the philosophy point. Talk about ths different software tools you get and how the "freedom" makes life happier to you. Also, a small comparison between the MS End User License Agreement and the GPL will drive the point home *very* elegantly :-) Please feel free to condemn my opinions. Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 14:12:34 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:42:34 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. Message-ID: Hello, As of now, I do not have access to a linux machine. Is there any way of accessing those files from my windows NT machine? Or is there any transcript available? Thanks. Ramesh. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 14:32:20 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:02:20 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <20010802123924.17169.qmail@web5105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 at 05:39, Satish Babu wrote: I can offer this space on our US server, provided an IP-based URL is OK (something like http://203.200.144.114/rms_talk.ogg). It'll take me until tomorrow to get permission from the Administrators, though. Our own http://www.gnu.org.in has sufficient space (2GB) is based in UK. We shall use it for the above purpose. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 15:16:34 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:46:34 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, R Sai Kiran wrote: > We've actually got lot more work to do before that. I'd seriously > suggest that the "GNU/Linux for Schools Project" be added to the > FSF-I Projects page in the FSF-I website. Yes, This is a great idea. A set of softwares for school should be identified and if possible made available in a CD for an easy install for the schools. We the Trivandrum GNU/Linux group had a chance to install the GNU system in one of the schools here some time before. In that school the person who was overall in charge was in favor of a GNU system but we had to face opposition from the staff, whose attitude was like "we had a great difficulty learning windows, and now you want us to forget all these and learn a new thing with lots of command huh? All the GNU stuff is great but find some one else to teach all these". This I believe will be the typical problem that we are going to face in most schools where the staff may not have core education in computers. She may be having basic qualification in some other subject with some certification in Computers and basic knowledge to use Winxx and MS Office, and computers may be one of the subj that is thought by her. So in order to over come this a good support structure is required. But things gets much easier if we can find people in the teacher community to take initative. > What I think we should do is decide upon a set of software most > relevant to schools and pack it up into a CD. What should be > included and what shouldn't can be the subject of an interesting > thread. Their are four uses of computer in Schools one to learn to effectively use a computer as a tool. In this skills like word processing, emailing, web browsing etc are imparted. Then the use of computer as a learning aid. The computer is used as a supplement to the various classes, assignments and other learning aids. Some of the tools required are multimedia CDs, Simulation of molecular structures etc.... Third the use of computer to learn to program a computer. The general languages databases etc.. Finally the use of computer as an office automation tool like any other office for the school admin. All the three may not be exclusive but require separate attention. These are some of my random thoughts... raj From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 15:44:17 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:14:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1248.192.168.0.2.996767057.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > Hello, > > As of now, I do not have access to a linux machine. Is there any way of > accessing those files from my windows NT machine? Or is there any > transcript available? Thanks. Winamp, maybe freeamp i din't check with that or may be good old media player (/me doub'ts if its calledby the same name now ). cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 15:58:14 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:28:14 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] Anybody doing Free Software Projects in India In-Reply-To: <20010802102319.19569.qmail@web8005.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, [iso-8859-1] Santhosh Narayana wrote: > I'm a newbie to the list. Doing V Semester, GDIT, > IIIT-Hyd. In IIIT-Hyd, 70% of programming is in Linux. Hello!! > Aryabhatta Linux, an ambitious project reg the same was started by > some members of ilughyd. We have started in Trivandrum a similar project to enable non trivial computation in local languages called project Indigo. (www.inapp.com/tuxila). We stated off on Jan and I was working on rendering Malayalam using Pango. Devanagiri and Tamil already has modules to take care of this. Our final aim is to have a distribution of GNU system where it is possible to use Local languages, like the German SuSe. I had a chance to talk to Ms Amba Kulkarni of IIIT-Hyd about this and she was interested in doing some localization for Star Office. May be you should talk to her if you are interested. CDAC was also interested in getting Mozilla localized. As of our own progress we were going pretty nicely but most of the core team members were involved in the Inauguration of FSF India and thus the project suffered. We are starting from where we left off now. Hope fully you can expect some result from us soon raj From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 14:15:19 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:45:19 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] [Fwd: RE: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer] Message-ID: <3B696077.57B5466B@eth.net> hi What should we obey. Indian Laws or US Laws ? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [free-sklyarov] Sklyarov=Napster according to Senator Boxer Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:03:39 -0400 From: "Peter" To: "Paul Callahan" , Probably they have some part-time students sitting there and sending out already made e-mails :-))) Peter Free Dmitry Sklyarov Repeal the DMCA ---------------------------------------- http://www.lupercalia.net/dmca http://www.freesklyarov.org My response to Senator Botster: Dear Senator Boxer: I appreciate your timely response. You may be unaware that my letter did not concern Napster, but in fact concerned Dmitry Sklyarov, a visiting scholar who is being held in federal custody by our government. His home is in Russia and he is currently being held far from his family despite having committed no crime in his own country, despite that he poses no danger to our society, and despite the fact that his original accusers Adobe Software have disavowed any support of his arrest. As a computer scientist who has presented research both here and abroad, I take a great interest in our treatment of visiting computer researchers. I also consider the anti-circumvention provision of DMCA to be an unworkable law, and its criminal prosecution to be a gross injustice. If you have not done so already, please inform yourself on the implications of DMCA to the longstanding notion of fair use in copyright law. Rep. Rick Boucher (D-VA) has written on this topic: http://www.house.gov/boucher/docs/fairuse.htm I eagerly await any relevant information you can supply regarding your stance on DMCA and the Dmitry Sklyarov case in particular. Sincerely, Paul Callahan --- Paul Callahan wrote: > Gotta wonder what kind of bot they have responding > to > Senator Boxer's email. Here's the response to a > letter > I sent "regrading" Sklyarov and DMCA: > > Dear Mr. Callahan: > > Thank you for your recent communication > regrading Napster. As you may already know, both > the United States District Court and a United > States Court of Appeals have ruled that Napster > encourages and assists copyright infringement of > copyrighted music. This decision restates the > important fact that in our country we value > property rights, whether its music that a writer > has created or the car that you drive. Neither > can legally be taken from you without > compensation. > > I strongly support the advancement of > technology and innovation on the Internet and > desire that all consumers be able to get music in > the electronic marketplace. But such advances must > also accompany respect for others' creations. > Those who invest in the creation of music, whether > it be an artist or record label, deserve to be paid > for the use of their music. > > The technology Napster employs holds great > promise. It is my hope that such peer to peer > technology will be available legitimately and that > the idea that Napster has invented will become > available to consumers in a legal manner very soon. > > Thank you for contacting me on this important > issue. > > --Paul > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > free-sklyarov mailing list > free-sklyarov@zork.net > http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov _______________________________________________ free-sklyarov mailing list free-sklyarov@zork.net http://zork.net/mailman/listinfo/free-sklyarov From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 15:39:27 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 21:09:27 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] Anybody doing Free Software Projects in India References: <20010802102319.19569.qmail@web8005.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B69742F.AFEA9B78@eth.net> hi I think we should have a word processor in Indian Languages. M.Balakrishna Pillai Santhosh Narayana wrote: > > Hi there, > I'm a newbie to the list. Doing V Semester, GDIT, > IIIT-Hyd. In IIIT-Hyd, 70% of programming is in Linux. > Establishment of FSF-India is a brilliant move. > Now its time to open a GNU/Linux Software Development > Pool with in the FSF-India. > > Yes we should actively spread GNU/Linux solutions in > India for their mere reliability alone. Affordability > is an added reason. > > It's been long we keep using developed packages from > the west. SuSe has a total german distribution of > GNU/Linux. Aryabhatta Linux, an ambitious project reg > the same was started by some members of ilughyd. May > be we need to coordinate and bring together all the > GNU/Linux developers onto a common platform and start > working on good projects. > > Linux is a big success in China. > > If such an initiative materializes, pls inform for we > would surely join hands minds for the same. > > -- > Santhosh(99055) > santhosh@gdit.iiit.net > "GNU/Linux opens doors, not windows" > > ____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > For regular News updates go to http://in.news.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 16:21:36 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:51:36 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> References: <3B69320C.7C01A60C@ti.com> Message-ID: <20010802215136.A2040@debianut.ekmnet> [Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 04:27:16PM +0530] Ramakrishnan M. : > ragu who is near the college Had been to the MeC and started an rsync session for the .dk mirror today at about 1530 HRS IST. You have to follow up with Ole and get a feedback from him as to what is happening. Please ask him whether his files have been synced properly. Shall I send a CD copy given to me by the MeC to Radi tomorrow ? -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Keeping the Air-Waves FREE...........Amateur Radio Keeping your Software FREE.........the GNU Project Keeping the W W W FREE....Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 16:50:44 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:20:44 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <20010802215136.A2040@debianut.ekmnet> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 at 21:51, Raghavendra Bhat wrote: Shall I send a CD copy given to me by the MeC to Radi tomorrow? That would be fine. But I copied Cochin talk from the CTAN mirror to our site and is now available at: http://www.gnu.org.in/download/RMS-Cochin/ -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 17:18:11 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:48:11 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, > Yes, This is a great idea. A set of softwares for school should be > identified and if possible made available in a CD for an easy install > for the schools. For this again, I'd suggest Red Hat 6.2 as the base development flavour. Anaconda really makes installation very peaceful. > So in order to over come this a good support structure is required. > But things gets much easier if we can find people in the teacher > community to take initative. We can also place a lot more emphasis on the GUI based configuration tools. Gone are the days when you *HAD* to use a shell to do any administrative task. There are GUI applications to do most of this work. For example, GnoRPM, Disk Management, User Management, GnoSamba etc. The interface is also fairly intuitive. It's just upto us guys to keep the "geekness" aside and demonstrate the use of these tools :-). Seriously, most experienced users (includes me too) tend to use the shell a lot more than the GUI. It just gives the newbie a feeling that he has to learn lots of new "commands". Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 18:04:02 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:34:02 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, R Sai Kiran wrote: > For this again, I'd suggest Red Hat 6.2 as the base development > flavour. Anaconda really makes installation very peaceful. Hm.... Debian is also cool. But these are the last decisions to be made. Can we all work together to identify a list of softwares that can be used in schools both for basic use as well as as teaching aids raj From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 17:38:05 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 23:08:05 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fastwebspace. References: Message-ID: <3B698FFD.2CFA7892@eth.net> Hello You cannot, unless GNU/Linux machine permits you. Install Debian GNU/Linux or any other distribution. It is very easy. Ofcourse you have to read the documentation, for which Debian is the best. Here in Kochi a +1 student - vipil_vicky@rediffmail.com - had installed GNU/Linux without any personal help. I think now he is learning various GNU utilities and programmes. M.Balakrishna Pillai lramesh@in.ibm.com wrote: > > Hello, > > As of now, I do not have access to a linux machine. Is there any way of > accessing those files from my windows NT machine? Or is there any > transcript available? Thanks. > > Ramesh. > > _______________________________________________ > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 17:37:40 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 23:07:40 +0530 Subject: [Life] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: <01080215274304.00761@vivek> Message-ID: <3B698FE4.4F2C6D55@eth.net> Dear Vivek It is regarding a computing utilities and operating system that a computer user can use, modify and distribute without spending money on software licences and breaking laws of any country in the world. You can setup anything including WEB servers, supercomputers etc without paying anything for the software licence and they are GNU (www.gnu.org www.gnu.org.in [india chapter]) working on the 'top' of Linux kernel. M.Balakrishna Pillai Vivek Agarwal wrote: > > Hi, > > this is vivek agarwal. I am the CEO of egurucool.com. We offer a range > courses to the students in schools through an intranet offering. This is a NT > based application..please let me know the details of what exactly you are > proposing for schools and let me see if we can hook in any way.. > > vivek > > On Tuesday 31 July 2001 11:28 pm, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > Hi, There's a LIFE mailing list, running from Mumbai. Contact > > life@mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in It's run from the Tata Institute of Fundamental > > Research by Prof Nagarajuna. > > Do send me your draft proposal too. Frederick Noronha, Freelance > > Journalist, Goa. > > > > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Satyakam Goswami wrote: > > > hi, > > > i am working on a draft proposal for use of GNU/Linux in Schools > > > anybody intrested in these kind of projects or if they are already > > > working on something like this i would be glad to learn about it. > > > > > > cheers > > > S.Goswami > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------- > > > Archean Infotech > > > Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar > > > Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com > > > Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 > > > Mobile:9849016667 > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > This email was sent using SquirrelMail. > > > "Webmail for nuts!" > > > http://squirrelmail.org/ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india > > > > _______________________________________________ > > LIFE mailing list > > LIFE@mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in > > http://mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in/mailman/listinfo/life > _______________________________________________ > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 18:02:10 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:32:10 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] What goes in In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, > > Their are four uses of computer in Schools Very interesting classification indeed. Essentially, > 1. Tools - word processors,email clients,browsers etc > 2. Learning aid - multimedia, simulation stuff etc > 3. Development - compilers etc > 4. Automation tool As I said earlier, I think this topic deserves a separate thread. I've taken the liberty of strting this one. As a first shot, I'd suggest the following stuff: Tools ------ 1. Open Office, Emacs, Vim 2. Evolution, Pine(?), Mutt 3. Netscape(?), Konqueror, Lynx, Opera Learning Aids -------------- 1. Scilab 2. Gnuplot Really dont know what to put here. Any suggestions?? Learning reminds me, we need to put in a lot of docs. Probably a few guides like the SAG, installation guide, a few good HOW-TOs etc. Development ------------ 1. K-Develop 2. All the typical compilers/interpreters anyone would ever want C,C++,Perl,Python,PHP .... 3. JDK 4. Forte4Java from Sun - IDE for developing GUI based Java progs Automation tools ----------------- No idea again .... suggestions please!! Plus, Ofcourse --------------- * Apache * MySQL/Postgres - I use MySQL and I love it * XMMS * Everybuddy * Obviously, GNOME + KDE - but, which versions?? Ximian and KDE 2.0 are both *very* resource hungry and we're talking of schools with slow computers. What should be done ? Let's pile up the list of softwares. If you think there's something in the list above which should not be included, let me know. And I'm really very sure there's far too much stuff I've missed out. Please keep adding to the list. Having more really does'nt hurt. We can always have a 2-CD distribution. The point is to give the people everything they'll ever need on the CD(s) so they'll never have to download anything on their dial-up lines. Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 15:52:27 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:22:27 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: ; from ch98086@che.iitm.ac.in on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 07:24:03PM +0530 References: <3B6926FD.CB02FB5B@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: <20010802212227.A10536@mailandnews.com> On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 07:24:03PM +0530, R Sai Kiran wrote: > > I mean, some of the members of the list may have objections in including > stuff whivh is not 'GPL'ed. But, I think that any Linux distro which > does'nt have, say, Pine, is BAD (just a personal opinion, I *love* Pine). The answer to this can be found in any of RMS's speech on free software. People who have objections in including non GPL'ed stuff (me for eg.) do have valid reason for that. The primary objective here is freedom and not utility or fancy features. As RMS says, If we set our eyes on a goal, and work towards it, we will finally (may take a long time) reach it. But on the way, if we see some temptations and change our direction, we will never reach our goal (which is freedom). If we get addicted to at least one non free software, and can't live without it, all the free software can't help us. For eg: take the above quoted fact. One person can't avoid using a non free software called pine even when there exists free software like mutt that provides similar functionality. So how can we help some one out of the non free world by giving them alternate non free software to use. Recomending pine instead of outlook express is simply switching wendors of non free software. This will boil down to just anti microsoft sentiments and won't help any one achieve freedom. Please note that the goal of FSF and GNU project is not shutting down microsoft. So if we consider that it is bad to use Internet explorer, it is equally bad to use netscape communicator (not mozilla). > Yes...the main purpose is to spread the philosophy. But, we > should'nt directly attack from the philosophy point. Why >>attack<< in the first place? If people don't understand the word freedom, we can ask them to read their 10th std history text books. I once again stress that the mission is not to convert all windows users to GNU/Linux users. The mission is to tell people about FREE software and help them to start using FREE software. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 19:04:23 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:34:23 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF-India] What goes in In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2037.192.168.0.2.996779063.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > > Hi, > >> >> Their are four uses of computer in Schools > > Very interesting classification indeed. Essentially, > >> 1. Tools - word processors,email clients,browsers etc >> 2. Learning aid - multimedia, simulation stuff etc >> 3. Development - compilers etc >> 4. Automation tool > > As I said earlier, I think this topic deserves a separate > thread. I've taken the liberty of strting this one. As a first shot, I'd > suggest the following stuff: > > Tools > ------ > 1. Open Office, Emacs, Vim > 2. Evolution, Pine(?), Mutt > 3. Netscape(?), Konqueror, Lynx, Opera Mozilla > > Learning Aids > -------------- > 1. Scilab > 2. Gnuplot > > Really dont know what to put here. Any suggestions?? > > Learning reminds me, we need to put in a lot of docs. Probably a > few guides like the SAG, installation guide, a few good HOW-TOs etc. Whole of the LDP ,this will go on the intranet. > > Development > ------------ > 1. K-Develop > 2. All the typical compilers/interpreters anyone would ever want > C,C++,Perl,Python,PHP .... pascal is widely used, cobal too.. > 3. JDK > 4. Forte4Java from Sun - IDE for developing GUI based Java progs i think we can find better alternative than that Free Ones i mean. > > Automation tools > ----------------- > No idea again .... suggestions please!! what automation tools are we talkin about here... > > Plus, Ofcourse > --------------- > * Apache > * MySQL/Postgres - I use MySQL and I love it Mysql with uncertain future and licensing issues we better avoid it. > * XMMS > * Everybuddy > * Obviously, GNOME + KDE - but, which versions?? Ximian and KDE > 2.0 are both *very* resource hungry and we're talking of schools with > slow computers. What should be done ? blackbox,fvwm or windowmaker > > Let's pile up the list of softwares. If you think there's > something in the list above which should not be included, let me know. And > I'm really very sure there's far too much stuff I've missed out. Please > keep adding to the list. Having more really does'nt hurt. We can always > have a 2-CD distribution. The point is to give the people everything > they'll ever need on the CD(s) so they'll never have to download anything > on their dial-up lines. i think they are pretty much there in any distribution ,its just a matter of showing them where and howto of the stuff + the FREEDOM. cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 01:45:24 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:15:24 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: References: <20010802215136.A2040@debianut.ekmnet> Message-ID: <20010803071524.A2945@debianut.ekmnet> [Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:20:44PM +0530] Radhakrishnan: > I copied Cochin talk from the CTAN mirror to our site > and is now available at: > > http://www.gnu.org.in/download/RMS-Cochin/ An md5checksum file has to be generated and put up along-with the Ogg-Vorbis files. This would be most helpful for people wanting to check the files after downloading the Kochi talks. -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Keeping the Air-Waves FREE...........Amateur Radio Keeping your Software FREE.........the GNU Project Keeping the W W W FREE....Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 03:06:26 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Abhas Abhinav) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:36:26 +0430 (AFT) Subject: [FSF-India] Anybody doing Free Software Projects in India In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Rajkumar S. wrote... >to talk to Ms Amba Kulkarni of IIIT-Hyd about this and she was >interested in doing some localization for Star Office. May be you >should talk to her if you are interested. Guys at NCST, Bangalore are already working on this and have been at it for at least three months now - their project is called vartalaap - and its about have an indianised version of OpenOffice. The last time i talked to one of the developers, they had mnaged to compile the wholeof Open Office on their own and were getting down to understanding the code and customising it... IIT, Madras also has a similar project where they are trying to localise the interface - i don't know what their approach is but they are also doing something about it.... The NCST guys are pretty much ahead on this, though.. cheers, abhas. From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 03:30:58 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 09:00:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. References: Message-ID: <3B6A1AF2.F75BB075@ti.com> Radhakrishnan C V wrote: > > That would be fine. > > But I copied Cochin talk from the CTAN mirror to our site and is now > available at: > > http://www.gnu.org.in/download/RMS-Cochin/ Thanks to everyone. I have intimated the people who asked me for the files the new locations. Ragu, can you anyway send the files to CVR? Because as you said, the md5sums may differ. It's better to have the original files hosted at gnu.org.in website. I have also intimated audio-recordings@gnu.org the location of the files, so that they can mirror them. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 10:51:12 2001 From: fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in (fsf-india@mail.gnu.org.in) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:21:12 +0530 Subject: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: ; from mohit@cfdlab.aero.iisc.ernet.in on Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:19:30AM +0530 References: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: <20010802162112.A778@orion> On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 10:19:30AM +0530, Mohit Agarwal wrote: > M$ windoughs `word' perfectly! Have you ever heard of something called > TeX or LaTeX? A program called `lyx' -- distributed under the GNU GPL -- LyX cant be used in a completely Free System since it links with non-free XForms libs. There is a KDE version available may be thats free. Abiword can export in LaTeX. Arun. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 04:50:07 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:20:07 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools References: Message-ID: <3B6A2D7F.36BACCF8@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5F9B306ED8281CABF44E61D9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit R Sai Kiran wrote: > Hi, > > > What you should do is write to the heads of few colleges and schools about > > Free software offering a talk and demonstration. > > We've actually got lot more work to do before that. I'd seriously > suggest that the "GNU/Linux for Schools Project" be added to the FSF-I > Projects page in the FSF-I website. We *need* volunteers. What I think we > should do is decide upon a set of software most relevant to schools and What I wrote is based on my personal experience. We cannot decide what is needed for the scools and colleges on a mailing list or in a closed group. Two years back I gave a talk on GNU/Linux at a college in Calicut. Demonstrated the installation procedure. Got few of the teachers interested after a while. Dept. of physics needs to do some work in C -- it is in the university syllabus -- and they were using Borland C++ IDE. I send them a copy of RHIDE IDE and they were about to change but another problem cropped up. The output of their programs require graphics. It is simple but they have to learn X-window graphics to do that. I have been doing all my work using Motif but something like gtk, with glade, seems to be a better choice today. Now i am trying to write some small example programs to get them started. The point i am trying to make is, you have to interact with the schools and colleges first to find out what they need. That must be provided if they are concerned about them. The approch of "Take this package. this is good for you" may not work. You need a very practical approach here. I am developing programs for physics research on GNU/Linux systems from 1994 onwards and have a strong attachment to it. But that is not a selling point. We need to help others solving their problems using free software along with talking about the philosophy of free software. I am attaching the C code I received and need to be converted into X-Windows. I dont think going back to SVGA LIB is a nice idea. If anybody think this particular topic is taking too much of this list please dont hesitate to point out. ajith > pack it up into a CD. What should be included and what should'nt can be > the subject of an interesting thread. I mean, some of the members of the > list may have objections in including stuff whivh is not 'GPL'ed. But, I > think that any Linux distro which does'nt have, say, Pine, is BAD (just a > personal opinion, I *love* Pine). > > > Talk should stress more on the philosophy of 'freedom' and demo should > > talk about the technical merits. If you can rent an LCD projector and > > show something like 'gimp', even the diehard Window user will have > > second thoughts. > > Oh, there are far too many things we can talk about, which I'm > sure will impress the Windows guys. I was actually asked to give a talk on > GNU/Linux during my summer job. Unfortunately, that got packed due to the > political happenings in Tamilnadu that weekend :-(. I had prepared a good > list of stuff to talk about. GIMP is definitely one of the best > examples. Others would be the ability of Abiword, Gnumeric etc. to save > files in PDF format, the X-window system, the KOffice suite (I have'nt > really used it extensively, but it's cool. You can embed a doc in a chart > If you gave a demo today using Kword, you are in for surprices. It dumps core very often. Great features but more work needed to make it reliable. Abiword is small but very reliable. > etc.), the Apache webserver (which Microsoft still uses on the Hotmail > servers) ... the list just keeps going on and on and ..... > > > If you don't talk about the philosophy behind 'free sofware', always > > there will be people trying to compare MS with GNU/Linux by bringing > > out irrelevent details. It is difficult to convince an average user > > about the quality and reliability of an OS but he will easily see the > > 'advantage ' of having two more fonts supported by his word processor. > > Yes...the main purpose is to spread the philosophy. But, we > should'nt directly attack from the philosophy point. Talk about ths > different software tools you get and how the "freedom" makes life happier > to you. Also, a small comparison between the MS End User License Agreement > and the GPL will drive the point home *very* elegantly :-) > > Please feel free to condemn my opinions. > > Regards, > > Sai > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Recursion n: > See Recursion > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 > > _______________________________________________ > http://mail.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india --------------5F9B306ED8281CABF44E61D9 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------5F9B306ED8281CABF44E61D9-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 05:10:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:40:08 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] gtk help Message-ID: <3B6A3230.BF167E4@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F77F8E5E7110A8E56215B3DB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello can anyone help in converting this to gtk undel GNU/Linux. ajith --------------F77F8E5E7110A8E56215B3DB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="cfm.c" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="cfm.c" //PROG.001: MOTION OF A PARTICLE IN CENTRAL FORCE FILELD // Program name: CFM.C #include #include #include #define PI 3.141 main() { int gd=DETECT,gm,maxx,maxy,xpt,ypt,i; float vel,dir_rad,dir_theta,ax,ay,t,Tmax,dt=0.01; float vx,vy,x,y,dx,dy,dvx,dvy,r,k=-25,m=0.10; float accel(float,float,float,float); printf("\nEnter position x,y "); scanf("%f,%f",&x,&y); printf("\nEnter velocity and direction "); scanf("%f,%f",&vel,&dir_theta); printf("\nEnter max. time of study (s)"); scanf("%f",&Tmax); dir_rad=dir_theta*PI/180.0; vx=vel*cos(dir_rad); vy=vel*sin(dir_rad); initgraph(&gd,&gm,"d:\\tc\\bgi"); maxx=getmaxx(); maxy=getmaxy(); setcolor(GREEN); setviewport(120,40,520,440,1); rectangle(0,0,400,400); putpixel(200,200,RED); for(i=0;i<=400;i=i+5) { putpixel(i,200,BLUE); putpixel(200,i,BLUE); } for(t=0;t<=Tmax;t=t+dt) { r=sqrt(x*x + y*y); ax=accel(x,r,k,m); ay=accel(y,r,k,m); vx=vx+ax*dt; vy=vy+ay*dt; x=x+vx*dt; y=y+vy*dt; xpt=(x+20)*400/40; ypt=400-(y+20)*400/40; putpixel(xpt,ypt,YELLOW); delay(10); } printf("\n PARTICLE MOVING IN A CENTRAL FORCE FIELD"); printf("\nk=%4.2f(SIu)",k); printf("\nV=%4.2fm/s",vel); printf("\nang=%4.2fd",dir_theta); printf("\nmass=%4.2fkg",m); sound(100); delay(100); nosound(); getch(); restorecrtmode(); } // Modify this function for differet types of // central forces float accel(float a, float d, float fk, float mass) { float acc; acc=fk*a/(mass*d*d*d); return(acc); } --------------F77F8E5E7110A8E56215B3DB Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------F77F8E5E7110A8E56215B3DB-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 06:02:43 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:32:43 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Sublists Message-ID: It seems that we need to have more sublists based on themes now under extensive deliberation like: 1. Free Software in Education 2. Programming and technical 3. Projects, developer coordination 4. General (philosophy, events, licence, etc) 5. ... I would request the opinion of all on the question of whether we shall have separate lists for the above and other items that may come up in future. The point is that some of our subscribers might be least interested to receive post that has no direct influence in their lives and we run the risk of unsubscribing owing to the vast number of mails to their boxes. Sublists have yet another distinction of systematically separating the topics and anyone who wants to see the archives in future can easily locate the posts relating to a specific theme. We might keep the root list as a general discussion forum and an announcement list for the major resolutions made in the sublists and other matters relevant to the Free Software community. Any thoughts? -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 06:14:43 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (KG Kumar) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:44:43 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] RMS profiled Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010803114243.00a4ec60@mail.myiris.com> --=======64402212======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-13544852; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed RMS has been profiled in the 30 July issue of BusinessWorld (2 pages) and in the current, 3 August issue of the Malayalam weekly, Malayalam Varika (5.5 pages). --=======64402212======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-13544852 Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/01 --=======64402212=======-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 09:00:38 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Sojish K) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 02:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] unsuscribe In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010803114243.00a4ec60@mail.myiris.com> Message-ID: <20010803090038.18365.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> please unsuscribe me from mailing list ===== //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // SOJISH K. // // homepage: www.sojishk.com // //--------------------------------------------------------// // "Ki tikk gayi ho jab nazar kisiki manzil // // Use hai wasta kya rasto.n ke dero.n se." // //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 09:05:31 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:35:31 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <20010802212227.A10536@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: Hi, > and not utility or fancy features. As RMS says, If we set our eyes on > a goal, and work towards it, we will finally (may take a long time) > reach it. But on the way, if we see some temptations and change our > direction, we will never reach our goal (which is freedom). > Please note that the goal of FSF and GNU project is not shutting down > microsoft. So if we consider that it is bad to use Internet explorer, > it is equally bad to use netscape communicator (not mozilla). Well, I have a slightly different point of view here. I claim that, you first get the people to start using the GNU/Linux systems, and very soon, the whole *philosophy* behind the movement becomes clear to them. The GNU + GPL is a rather new thing. We are in the initial phases of a huge revolution to come. I believe, the best idea now is to get people to start using GNU/Linux systems. I'm *NOT* supporting non-"free" software. I'm just saying that, we'll give them the GNU stuff. But, let's not pack the non-free stuff either. Probably, we can put all the non-free software in a separate path, or, the second CD, if we need to go for a 2-CD distro. Please note, all I'm saying is we really need people to start using GNU/Linux first. When I first started off with Linux, I had no idea of the philosophy, just knew that it was free (in the free beer sense of "free"). Over a short period of time after that, I came to know the background stuff, the philosopy. And now, I'm pretty much in love with it. It's the same with most people, I guess. I convinced one of my Professors here in campus to start using GNU/Linux. Initially, I just gave him a brief idea of the philosophy and told him that all tools he'd require (like code-libraries etc.) are free. Once he started using it, he really "felt" the difference. He advises students to use GNU/Linux these days. > > Yes...the main purpose is to spread the philosophy. But, > > we should'nt directly attack from the philosophy point. > Why >>attack<< in the first place? If people don't understand the > word freedom, we can ask them to read their 10th std history text > books. I once again stress that the mission is not to convert all > windows users to GNU/Linux users. The mission is to tell people > about FREE software and help them to start using FREE software. I totally accept. But, converting the Windows users to GNU/Linus users is the first step in making them use FREE software. Just my thoughts. Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 09:25:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:55:06 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <014b01c14b7e$93e97e40$d600a8c0@administrator> Message-ID: Hi, > Dont we feel this is the way (by using GUI exesively) Proprieteries have > handicapped lots of users around world? > I agree that we are trying to make it easier for them to use the Free > Software with it , but on the other hand we are making it more possible for > them not to look under the Hood, and the the real freedom lies there..... Nice arguement :-) Well, the point I was trying to make is, let's first get the users to feel to surface and they'll dig deeper themselves. Once you start using powerful applications, *LOTS* of them, which come free of cost (free as in "free" beer), you'd definitely wonder why so many people are giving their code free, even allowing people to make modifications to it. Further, there's the big question on "How does the developer survive". Atleast a good percentage of people would go to the GNU website to find out more. This curiosity, plus a realisation of the power of the "Free Software" philosophy would attract the people more. All these are just MY OPINIONS. Further, more the GNU users, more would be the funding, development etc. So, making the new user comfortable with the OS is central to the whole plan. > Again havnt prop. retained their command over the users by simply not > allowing them to use the "commands" on computers? More people I know have learnt their GNU/Linux principles, administration etc. reading the docs rather than attending Courses in professional coaching academies. It's the other way around for Windows. When the user suddenly realises there's something he's not able to do with the GUI, he'd get back to the docs. As long as the GUI does the job it is intended to, I think it's performing well and there's no reason to condemn it. It only makes it easier for people to *start* using GNU. When the needs increase, and if they find it necessary, they'll definitely get back to the command line. Again, these are just, my thoughts and I'd love to know others' opinions. Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 09:36:15 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:06:15 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <3B6A2D7F.36BACCF8@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: Hi, > The point i am trying to make is, you have to interact with the schools and > colleges first to find out what they need. That must be provided if they are > concerned about them. The approch of "Take this package. this is good for you" > may not work. You need a very practical approach here. That's a very neat suggestion. What's on my mind right now?? - as you suggested, I think we should first get the requirements right. How many people do we have here, and from which parts of the country. To my knowledge, there are a good chunk of people from Trivandrum and I'm from Chennai. What we could do is, decide upon a standard format questionnaire kind of a thing. A few simple questions like what software is currently being used in their machines (the most obvious one ofcourse, but I'm sure we can get a lot more). Basically, what we could call a "market survey" :-). Identify the top, say 10 or 20 schools in cities where we have volunteers and actually, PHYSICALLY go to the school give them the forms and get the responses. I think email/snail mail will not work. It might be a little painful for the volunteers, but, I think it's necessary. I'm ready to do this in Chennai. Any better ideas .. or think this one is stupid, please let me know. Also, anybody and everybody on the list interested in helping, please come forward and tell us. We need more ideas. The way the discussions are progressing, we might be onto something *GOOD*. :-) Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 10:49:23 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:19:23 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: ; from ch98086@che.iitm.ac.in on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 02:35:31PM +0530 References: <20010802212227.A10536@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: <20010803161923.A18113@mailandnews.com> On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 02:35:31PM +0530, R Sai Kiran wrote: > > Well, I have a slightly different point of view here. I claim > that, you first get the people to start using the GNU/Linux systems, and > very soon, the whole *philosophy* behind the movement becomes clear to > them. I have seen this strategy fail miserably in many places. Now a days you have many >>Linux<< users groups in India who openly refuse to listen or talk about GNU or freedom. There are lots mailing lists where you will be banned if you try to speak of GNU or freedom (I would have been) thrown out of by now if I this thread was on one of them). The moment we leave out the phylosophy and go after just the technology, we loose all our strength. > The GNU + GPL is a rather new thing. We are in the initial phases of > a huge revolution to come. This revolution is atleast 17 years old. It is growing at a good pace. Better grow slowly rather than explode and die away. > I believe, the best idea now is to get people > to start using GNU/Linux systems. I'm *NOT* supporting > non-"free" software. I'm just saying that, we'll give them the GNU > stuff. But, let's not pack the non-free stuff either. Probably, we can put > all the non-free software in a separate path, or, the second CD, if we > need to go for a 2-CD distro. This is a good idea and is actually practiced by the debian distribution. But I still believe that stressing on phylosophy is the only way we can promote free software. By not doing so, we may be able to get a much bigger number of users but the majority will never even think of the freedom part. Please note that for the majority of people in India, getting the software they need without paying money is no big deal. So if we don't put phylosophy first, our attempts will reduce to a mere anti microsoft campaign. > > Please note, all I'm saying is we really need people to start > using GNU/Linux first. When I first started off with Linux, I had no idea > of the philosophy, just knew that it was free (in the free beer sense of > "free"). Over a short period of time after that, I came to know the > background stuff, the philosopy. And now, I'm pretty much in love with > it. It's the same with most people, I guess. NO. It is not so for the majority. The example of ilug is applicable here. > I convinced one of my Professors here in campus to start using GNU/Linux. > Initially, I just gave him a brief idea of the philosophy and told him that > all tools he'd require (like code-libraries etc.) are free. Once he > started using it, he really "felt" the difference. He advises students to > use GNU/Linux these days. Does he stress on the phylosophy now? If no, then we have a loss. If yes, may be because this person is a Professor (thinks a lot), he found the true value. But what about 90% of college students who just want to watch vcds and ** stuff? They don't and won't care about phylosophy unless we start with that. > I totally accept. But, converting the Windows users to GNU/Linus > users is the first step in making them use FREE software. Can't we try the other way round? ie. we make them free software users and so they automatically become non non-free software users. I insist on this because the failure of the other strategy that I have noticed. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 10:54:50 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:24:50 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] RMS' speech at Kochi Message-ID: <3B6A82FA.2F470A69@ti.com> Mirrors of RMS speech in India 2001-07-28 * http://bubblegum.homeip.net/rks/ (not updated) * http://ole.tange.dk/linux/rms/ * http://www.sslug.dk/~tange/ole.tange.dk/linux/rms/ * http://cvs.sslug.dk/~tange/ole.tange.dk/linux/rms/ Note that these are the exact replica of the files at MEC with no md5 checksum errors. The link is pretty fast. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 11:02:43 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Modern Book Centre, TVM) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:32:43 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] unsuscribe References: <20010803090038.18365.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B6A84D3.49E46F22@techpark.net> unsubsribe modern@techpark.net From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 11:11:05 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:41:05 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. References: Message-ID: <3B6A86C9.26C0A5E2@ti.com> Radhakrishnan C V wrote: > > Our own http://www.gnu.org.in has sufficient space (2GB) is based in > UK. We shall use it for the above purpose. Just out of curiosity, I remember reading somewhere that the physical location of *.{com,org,net}.in should be India? do we violate this? I am not sure whether this rule is changed now. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 11:46:32 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:16:32 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] RMS speech at MEC, cochin--needed some fast webspace. In-Reply-To: <3B6A86C9.26C0A5E2@ti.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 at 16:41, Ramakrishnan M wrote: Radhakrishnan C V wrote: > > Our own http://www.gnu.org.in has sufficient space (2GB) is based in > UK. We shall use it for the above purpose. Just out of curiosity, I remember reading somewhere that the physical location of *.{com,org,net}.in should be India? do we violate this? I am not sure whether this rule is changed now. Server can be anywhere, but the primary nameserver where the entry of the server is made *should* be in India. Previously it was insisted for the secondary name server too located in India, but now NCST advise to have it in some other part of the world. They seem to have learnt a lot from experience.:) -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 13:32:19 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (ravi gangavarapu) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:32:19 Subject: [FSF India] Re: Contents of FSF-India digest..." Message-ID: Hi Everybody: Sai's experience is interesting. Some suggestions regarding spreading GNU/Linux in schools. It is a good idea to develop interface with all the educational bodies (both governament and non-governament such as teachers federations or organizations including non-profit organizations). Explain them (by sending letters) how it is costly to use commercial software and the effect they have on Indian foreign currency reserves (note that Microsoft is from US and you pay for it in foriegn currency) and how they can save money on license fee. The focus should be on using free software to avoid legal problems with the use of unlicensed software. Also, highlight free community support they get for free software. Explain how free software like Apache is robust on security front compared to Microsoft web server becuase of open source and community activity. Ravi Gangavarapu. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 19:55:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 01:25:52 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Media materials on RMS's visit. Message-ID: <20010804012552.E1038@orion> Hi friends, It would be very helpful if the members of this list can get media materials relating to RMS's visit for FSF India, especially outside Kerala. Those who can send them please inform before sending so that we can avoid duplicate efforts. KG could you please inform about the materials we already have. Arun. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 3 09:00:11 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Varun Sinha) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:30:11 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] GNU/Linux in Schools from a guy in school References: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> <20010802162112.A778@orion> Message-ID: <001101c11c9d$2714c3c0$0cc96565@dreammachine> Hi all!! I have been following the discussion about GNU systems in schools with great interest, but haven't been able to put my two cents in, cuz I'm in XII and the week gets really busy. But it's a Friday afternoon, so I can give myself a little time off...:-) I think GNU systems would be a great idea for a simple reason: the cost. Yes, I know that it is mainly about freedom and I greatly appreciate that. But the truth is my principal isn't all that concerned about free software; he is much more interested in setting up a full-fledged computer system at a fraction of the cost it would cost him to do so using proprietary software (we don't have one right now). Besides the fact that the software itself is a lot more cost-effective, the hardware costs would also be greatly reduced. I think another interesting effect it would have would be that awareness would be created among students about free software. What better ways to learn about it's philosophy that using it itself!! The only downside I can think of is training and support. People who know about proprietary software are dime-a-dozen but people with knowledge of GNU systems are not that easy to find. Or as least that is my perception, I may be wrong. I think the reason the KVs teach Fox-Pro and Word and Excel et al is because it is so easy to find people to teach them. GNU systems are a whole new world for vast majority and I really don't know how easy it would be to find people to teach. One idea is that people from a local GNU user group could come and teach, but is that a feasible idea? The point about using GUI for most tasks seems to make sense. It would be alot easier for people, especially teachers (students might be able to) to work with GUI. I think they would rather spend their time on work rather than learning shell commands (I'm not saying that learning shell commands is not "work", but I feel that they might find it slightly wasteful)I'm sure that at some point some of them might become quite proficient with the systems, but most of them would be more comfortable with a GUI. My entire opinion is based mainly with my school in mind, maybe the situation is different in other places. Just some of my thoughts. Please let me know if you think I am wrong. And also let me know if you think I am right.....;-) Regards, Varun Sinha -------------------------------------------------------------- Cosmic Information and Technology Ltd, Ahmedabad, India From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 06:11:26 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Suraj Kumar S.) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 11:41:26 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Sublists In-Reply-To: ; from cvr@gnu.org.in on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 11:32:43AM +0530 References: Message-ID: <20010804114126.B2623@in.inapp.com> I think i would be ideal to have different lists. We usually see that some threads become very large and the contents of the mails sometimes have no relavence with the actual subject. Hence some mails may become junk mails form someone. Maybe you can subscribe us into all of these different lists. Those who would not be interested in one of them, can unsubscribe from that specific list and not from the main list. -Suraj On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 11:32:43AM +0530, Radhakrishnan C V wrote: > It seems that we need to have more sublists based on themes now > under extensive deliberation like: > > > 1. Free Software in Education > 2. Programming and technical > 3. Projects, developer coordination > 4. General (philosophy, events, licence, etc) > 5. ... From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 06:47:12 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Jayan S R) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:17:12 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] gtk help In-Reply-To: <3B6A3230.BF167E4@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Ajith Kumar wrote: > Hello > can anyone help in converting this to gtk undel GNU/Linux. > > ajith > I am giving it a try. I will just convert it and send it, but I do not know how it should look like :-) I could not compile it since it uses dos graphics functions. one question- can you please tell me why did u set the viewport to these magic numbers? setviewport(120,40,520,440,1); so that it will be easier for me. regards -- Jayan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 09:10:39 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (keshava kumar) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 02:10:39 -0700 Subject: [FSF India] New person onf list Message-ID: <200108040910.CAA24325@mail8.bigmailbox.com> Hi Friends, Tahnking you all for welcoming me as one of you in this mailing list. It would be helpful if you send you e-mail ids indivually to me , have good day, Keshava G. ------------------------------------------------------------ <==James (Spike) Masters, Live In Sydney==> Check out our site for more info Email thats fast, free and spamless!! http://mail.fsf.com.au From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 11:07:31 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Jayan S R) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 16:37:31 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] gtk help In-Reply-To: <3B6A3230.BF167E4@nsc.ernet.in> Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --1489653231-37675009-996923251=:13639 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Ajith Kumar wrote: > Hello > can anyone help in converting this to gtk undel GNU/Linux. here is the gtk version of your MOTION OF A PARTICLE IN CENTRAL FORCE FILELD It looks really cool. 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So the skills and techniques he learned form the school could be used freely and without any restrictions for the betterment of the society. For example a medical student, on successful completion of his course can practice his acquired skills without any license from any one other than the Government. Same is the case all other fields of education - he can practice and share his knowledge with his neighbours, friends and the like. So the knowledge one gets from the educational institutions should be practiced and shared without any restrictions and licenses (Government-license is excluded because it only confirms the required skills). As such teaching anything that requires license or permision from anyone other than the concerned Educational institution and or the Government for practicing is illegeal (according to my belief). M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 12:32:40 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 18:02:40 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] gtk help References: Message-ID: <3B6BEB68.31390311@eth.net> Jayan S R wrote: > MOTION OF A PARTICLE IN CENTRAL FORCE FILELD It looks really cool. I bet it looks better than the dos version, > let me know If u have any trouble in compiling or running this program. Jayan Thank you Jayan, it is working. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 15:06:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Varun Sinha) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 20:36:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> <20010802162112.A778@orion> <001101c11c9d$2714c3c0$0cc96565@dreammachine> Message-ID: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> WB Govt ties up with MSFT http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010804/tc/india_microsoft_dc_1.html One would think they would be better off tying up with RedHat or SuSE or the FSF Who wants a government that has to be patched every week....? -------------------------------------------------------------- Cosmic Information and Technology Ltd, Ahmedabad, India From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 16:34:24 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:04:24 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> Message-ID: <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> FSF wake up this news comes at a bad time there are efforts from different directions to make WB a Free Software State. Can we all make a presentation on this immediately at least the board members can write somethin to this senior official in WBEIDC and explain them that they are getting a one way ticket. A senior official at the West Bengal Electronics Industry Development Corp (Webel) said the deal with Microsoft would help the state woo investments in the information technology sector. the closest contact info i could get was the following. http://www.wbidc.com/contact.htm the Westbengal.com site did not list email id's of Ministers and the CM, they had phone numbers listed what a ridiculous thing to do. I urge we should have a strong presentation from FSF on the follwing issues 1)Investment Promises which never come, tell them to learn from the mistake of others. 2)You have to help yourself there will be nobody else helping you. 3)How,Why and where Free Software can help achieve there objectives. 4)Who is making $$ in this SLACK phase?? cheers S.Goswami > WB Govt ties up with MSFT > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010804/tc/india_microsoft_dc_1.html > > One would think they would be better off tying up with RedHat or SuSE or > the FSF > > Who wants a government that has to be patched every week....? > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Cosmic Information and Technology Ltd, Ahmedabad, India > > > _______________________________________________ > http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 16:50:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:20:28 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> Message-ID: <1160.192.168.0.2.996943828.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> in continuation to the last mail tell them 1)As the old saying goes A penny Saved is Penny Made. 2)The M$ has lost its Lusture , and this trick has been tried many a times and it did not work very well for the other states, tell them to try a radi cally new concept like Free Software it will definetly will not cause any brain damage to anyone. 3)Tell them we know it take lots of efforts and guts to do it but in long run its worth taking it Lemme quote one of our local dailies deccan.com poor thing does not maintain Archives may be i should approach them too ;-) "Naidu's Global Consultants fail to bring in a single paisa" From CR Gowri Shanker Hyderabad july 27 : Six international consultants hired by the state government last year to formulate industrial policy and boost investment are in deep trouble for their failure to attract major foreign companies. At a recent review of invetments in the state , the government expressed its displeasure to the six consultants for their failure to attaract investment worth the name. The consultants on the CM's firing line are Ernest and Young,KPMG,Pricewaterhouse Coopers,A F Ferguson and Co, Mega Ace Consultanct and Alpic Finance. and it goes on and on in bashing the consultants.. cheers S.Goswami > WB Govt ties up with MSFT > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010804/tc/india_microsoft_dc_1.html > > One would think they would be better off tying up with RedHat or SuSE or > the FSF > > Who wants a government that has to be patched every week....? > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Cosmic Information and Technology Ltd, Ahmedabad, India > > > _______________________________________________ > http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 16:42:38 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:12:38 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] [simputer@yahoogroups.com: [simputer] Digest Number 139] Message-ID: <20010804221238.B1904@orion> ----- Forwarded message from simputer@yahoogroups.com ----- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:07:03 +0500 (GMT) From: V Vinay Subject: The tax payer and other issues Hi all, Warning: This is a long mail. Please do not respond to this email, especially if you are not prepared to think through and believe you require any additional clarifications. Our energies are better spent elsewhere. > I have been reading the mails and I think that one oft > the original posters had pointed out that the initial > development of the Simputer was carried out in IISc, > banglore. That institute is funded by the tax payers > money. So, the question arises why does the license > fee not go to IISc but a private firm. > > I have not seen this one answered. Indeed, this has not been answered. And it seems many other questions. First, a general comment on the lack of understanding of how publically financed institutions work. Technologies are not thrown open just because institutions takes money from the tax payer. On the contrary, they are protected rigorously. Take the case of path breaking technologies that have emerged from IIT-Madras; are they in the open? Do you know that some of the query optimization algorithms and code that is part of Microsoft's database server is from IIT-Bombay? The list is virtually endless. Non-disclosure is a norm; it is not the exception. Speaking for the IISc team, the four of us got together as individuals working on something beyond our brief. This means that we have not received any direct funding from any agency (tax paying or otherwise) to subsidise our efforts. In fact, most of the money put in by the IISc team came at the cost of our *personal renumeration* from several consultancy projects. But nevertheless IISc, at best could have got only part of any license fee as Encore, as employer of the other three trustees, is an equal partner. This is the reason for setting a non-profit trust. With great wisdom and sagacity, and what should be regarded as a unique experiment in academic-industrial interaction, IISc and Encore have deposited any intellectual property on the Simputer from their respective sides with the Trust. You should also know that a non-profit trust is not a private firm! Of course, any money that comes into the trust cannot go to the pockets of the trustees. You can sleep in peace, the state has enough mechanisms in place to guarantee this. IISc is also interested in commercializing the Simputer effort. It took a major step by allowing, for the first time in India, faculty entrepreneurship. It has a equity stake in the company so started. (Three years ago, we probably would have signed an NDA with Encore and got a small personal compensation for that.) Now to the economics: it is not worthwhile for anyone to get into commercial activity in this space unless they have a market for about 100,000 to 200,000 Simputers; until that point the economics does not work out. The total revenue at say, 2000,000 Simputers is $40 million. And $25,000 will be steep price for this manufacturer?? (This is rhetoric, I am not looking for your answer.) A manufacturer can pay this fee and make as many boards as they want, supply them to different "assemblers" or even deliver different assembled Simputers. Or a company can get into contract manufacturing agreement in which case it pays the license fee and the manufacturer does not have to. I hope I will not see anymore of the incredible questions about paying license for selling Simputer to 30 friends etc as if the trust is composed of some robots with the intelligence of a moron. The trust, let me assure you, is made of very smart thinking people, thank you. You should recognize by now that the hardware and software on the Simputer has been thrown open *by choice*; we gave up our monoplistic position on the Simputer. In doing so, we have only invited competition to our own companies. TIME Asia, in its coverage, called this move naive. Hmmm. Were we really smart here! Maybe, maybe not. But what is the support we get for this decision? Well, we get ill-informed, shrill and venomous comments by our so-called tax payers and others, with zero understanding of how a trust functions and of any underlying economics. And some of these emails even comes with a line that the information contained in the email is proprietary to a private company! So I suppose I cannot comment any further :-) The success of the Simputer does not depend on its licensing model, or who its trustees are, or what technologies it uses. It depends on the change it can make to the people around us. People around the world are excited about the Simputer for its vision, for offering hope. But we all realize that no single technology can transform the strata of societies we are looking at. There are a thousand other things to be done to get this and other countries out of their sorry present state. That effort is being strengthened by like minded people who are quitely contributing behind the scenes. Thank God some of them exist! If any of you think you can contribute, please lend your hand in your own unique way. Let a thousand ideas bloom! This is what we require of each one of us. If the only role you can play is adversial, you can atleast contribute by bringing silence, golden silence!! Regards Vinay ---- Prof. V. Vinay, Trustee, Simputer Trust ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:55:23 -0400 From: Ozakil Azim Subject: Re: The tax payer and other issues Vinay, I beg to disagree with you. I am not writing this mail to seek clarification from you or your colleagues. This is an 'open' forum and until such time that you keep this forum open, I will give vent to 'my' opinions. we all know that you could opt to retain complete IP rights to the simputer and license it any way you want to your potential licensees. and that nobody is stopping you from doing that. and that you could potentially make millions of dollars personally. and that you are getting incensed at all the 'unmerited' criticism. you know what? if you had kept the rights to yourself, you probably wouldn't have gotten this level of criticism from the 'open-source' believers. Please understand that open source rhetoric will sound shrill at times. did you think the open source path will be easy? that the open source philosophy is something that can be customized for varying degrees of openness? let's all agree to disagree and move on. you guys are doing a good job. nobody thinks ill of you or your achievements. everybody has gone on record appreciating your work. just ignore the criticism if you don't like it. moderate this forum and delete posts that you don't agree with, if you like. but please do not think that people in this forum are 'robots with the intelligence of a moron', either. you need to a build a team of developers who will be willing to spend their time, as you have done, freely, to the ongoing development and the success of the simputer; as hundreds of developers have done for apache etc. already. do not alienate them before they even get started. -azim V Vinay wrote: > > Please do not respond to this email, especially if you are not > prepared to think through and believe you require any additional > clarifications. > > > > I hope I will not see anymore of the incredible questions about paying > license for selling Simputer to 30 friends etc as if the trust is > composed of some robots with the intelligence of a moron. > > > > Well, we get ill-informed, shrill and venomous comments by our > so-called tax payers and others, with zero understanding of how a > trust functions and of any underlying economics. > > > > If the only role you can play is adversial, you can atleast contribute by > bringing silence, golden silence!! > ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----- End forwarded message ----- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 4 20:39:14 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (R Sai Kiran) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 02:09:14 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: Hi People, Seriously, this is crazy!! Who's taking all these decisions. I see far too many problems: 1) Proprietary software, is in a sense, against the principles of democracy. Just consider using free software for administrative purposes. The people have access to the code the govt uses and know exactly how things related are functioning. For example, software used in elections etc. I actually read this article sometime back about a country deciding to focus on using Free Software for all administrative purposes. Can't trace the URL now :-(. 2) The article says that West Bengal plans to setup a state-wide computer network connecting the secretariat and the district headquarters. This is serious business. I mean, your key word would be SECURITY. In such a case, why would anyone ever want to use Windows. Microsoft itself "tried" Windows sometime back on its Hotmail servers when it was hacked (I'm not entirely sure of the part of being hacked, but they definitely dropped the plans of using Windows very soon). It's now gone back to FreeBSD + Apache. Just consider, one intruder on the network could mean sooooo much trouble. We are talking about *SENSITIVE* data here. > 1)Investment Promises which never come, tell them to learn from the > mistake of others. > 2)You have to help yourself there will be nobody else helping you. > 3)How,Why and where Free Software can help achieve there objectives. > 4)Who is making $$ in this SLACK phase?? You're sooo right... somebody has to talk with the guys about this stuff. And soon, the deal is going to be signed on 16th!! Are we having any plan yet?? Who're the ones taking all the decisions out there. For some time, I thought it might be Bihar :-) Regards, Sai ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Recursion n: See Recursion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R Sai Kiran http://www.che.iitm.ac.in/~ch98086 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 02:29:39 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 07:59:39 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] gtk help References: Message-ID: <3B6CAF93.FA25A5A6@nsc.ernet.in> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CE41367EFA5938E2A069FBC4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jayan S R wrote: > On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Ajith Kumar wrote: > > > Hello > > can anyone help in converting this to gtk undel GNU/Linux. > > here is the gtk version of your MOTION OF A PARTICLE IN CENTRAL FORCE > FILELD It looks really cool. I bet it looks better than the dos version, > let me know If u have any trouble in compiling or running this program. > Thank you Jayan. It works well. ajith > > warm regards > > -- > Jayan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: cfmgtk.c > cfmgtk.c Type: Plain Text (TEXT/PLAIN) > Encoding: BASE64 --------------CE41367EFA5938E2A069FBC4 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajith.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ajith Kumar Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajith.vcf" begin:vcard n:Kumar;Ajith x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Nuclear Science Centre adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajith@nsc.ernet.in title:Scientist SE x-mozilla-cpt:;28064 fn:Ajith Kumar end:vcard --------------CE41367EFA5938E2A069FBC4-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 03:53:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:23:00 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] New person onf list In-Reply-To: <200108040910.CAA24325@mail8.bigmailbox.com> References: <200108040910.CAA24325@mail8.bigmailbox.com> Message-ID: <15212.49948.52928.356656@mail.linux-delhi.org> Why? >>>>> "keshava" == keshava kumar writes: keshava> Hi Friends, keshava> Tahnking you all for welcoming me as one of you in this keshava> mailing list. keshava> It would be helpful if you send you e-mail ids indivually keshava> to me , keshava> have good day, keshava> Keshava G. -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 03:53:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:23:00 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] New person onf list In-Reply-To: <200108040910.CAA24325@mail8.bigmailbox.com> References: <200108040910.CAA24325@mail8.bigmailbox.com> Message-ID: <15212.49948.52928.356656@mail.linux-delhi.org> Why? >>>>> "keshava" == keshava kumar writes: keshava> Hi Friends, keshava> Tahnking you all for welcoming me as one of you in this keshava> mailing list. keshava> It would be helpful if you send you e-mail ids indivually keshava> to me , keshava> have good day, keshava> Keshava G. -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 2 18:11:34 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:41:34 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <1421.192.168.0.8.996747456.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Satyakam Goswami wrote: > > U might be aware of Life (linux for education) which was started by > > Nagarjuna G. at Tata institute of Fund. Research. > > > > There are few gathered at mailing list for the purpose and all would be > > able to find more like minded over there. > There site is down and i tried calling nagarjun's number in Mumbai, nobody > responded. > > S.Goswami > > ________________________________________ > Archean Infotech > Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar > Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com > Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 > Mobile:9849016667 IN A 'SOFTWARE SUPER-POWER', RURAL KIDS LACK THE CODE TO LEARN... By Frederick Noronha -------------------- WHY IS it easier for Indian school students to use the computer to study the geography of the United States, rather than know the states of their own country better? What is the fate of students in non-English schools who want to learn how to use computers optimally? In a word, are we producing suitable software to cope with the needs of our own schools? These issues come up regularly to haunt educationists keen to give school-children better access to computers. More so, when the students come from underprivileged or poor backgrounds, are familiar only with regional languages, and study in resource-poor government schools. "Availability of suitable (educational software) material in the Kannada language is next to nil," complains engineer S. Jayaraman. He is a consultant to the Azim Premji Foundation (APF), a philanthropic network started by Bangalore's prominent IT house. The APF has plans to computerise around a thousand rural schools, attended mainly by children of the poor. So far it has managed around three dozen. This too has not been problem-free. Plans to set up these 'community learning centres' which could be used in the evenings by general villagers have, among other things, been hit by a lack of relevant software. "Some of the (commercial software producers) are offering syllabus-based learning," says Jayaram. Much of the 'educational software' available is in English, and better suited to foreign students rather than Indian needs. Others firms have simply taken textbooks and dumped it onto a CD. Some of the other problems the Azim Premji Foundation has to struggle with include finding sufficiently motivated teachers close-by, difficult infrastructure (high and ultra low-voltage power), reluctance of school authorities to open access to villagers outside school hours, and the like. But the Foundation is already reporting that putting computers in rural schools has boosted attendance, and that admissions to otherwise-ignored government schools has also improved. APF has been able to make use of two specific software -- one a Karnataka-based treasure hunt, giving information on the state's various districts; and the other called 'Brainstorm' that helps students practise simple Arithmetic concepts. C.V.Madhukar of the APF stresses that the foundation has taken up "primary education as our target, not so much as philanthropy but more as problem-solving". He said the possible agenda on this front could revolve around computer-based content creation (either teacher-centered or child-centered content); TV-based content; setting up Community Learning Centres; and facilitate the donation of used PCs from companies to schools. Tia Sircar of the Bangalore-based TeLC (The e-Learning Consortium) also stresses the need to look at the 'content needs' of the Indian rural masses. She points to the success of some experiments like the Pratham initiative of computer training in Mumbai, which Sircar says has been a "vast success". Sircar concedes that students across the country feel the need to study English. But without regional language software, the aim of making India a computer-literate nation would simply not happen, as educationists agree. Others wanting to promote computers in schools have also faced similar problems. From the west coast, the Goa Computers-in-Schools Project (GCSP) is an Internet-based alliance between overseas Goans and those here to help spur on attempts to give schools in the state access to more computers. Recently, the GCSP managed to finally get the Central government to allow Customs-free import of once-used computers from abroad to non-elitist, non-commercial privately run schools. This is particularly relevant in Goa, a state where much of school education is privately managed. Such measures could allow overseas expats to send in donated and once-used computers by the containerful, on just paying the freight charges. But software questions remain. In the past too, some linked to this network have raised questions about the ethics of using pirated proprietorial software in schools, where students are supposed to be taught to follow a principled approach to life. Other approaches are being tried out. Aware of this acute lack of educational software, the small but active network across India that promotes Open Source and 'free' software is also beginning to pay some attention to the issue. Prof Nagarjuna G of the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research in Mumbai has set up a Internet based mailing-list to study the potential in school education of GNU-Linux, the Open Source and 'free' software. Life can be contacted via Life-admin@hbcse.tifr.res.in while the website is at http://hbcse.tifr.res.in/mailman/listinfo/life There are other global websites like linuxforkids.com which offer megabytes for education software on a CD for prices ranges between three to six dollars. Programs offered include First_math (a maths quiz game), Anton (a challenging maths game), Cindrella (commercial interactive geometry software), Linux Letters (learning game for children from 2-up for letters and numbers), TuxType (typing tutor), Gnerudite (a Scrabble-clone), Across (to generate your own crossword puzzles), Qvocab (to increase your foreign language vocabulary), Lingoteach (to learn foreign languages), Atomix (a molecule-creation game), LOGO (tool for children to learn programming). This might be helpful, but doesn't quite solve the main problem at hand. Linux is still, unfortunately, seen as a "geeks' operating system". So, support available is relatively limited, specially in remote rural areas. In addition, again the problem of having relevant, local-language educational software remains. On the positive side, there are some signs of hope. Local GNU-Linux enthusiasts are showing signs of growing interest to build India-relevant software applications, and the educational sector could benefit too. Committed supporters of Linux do appreciate that for their Operating System to grow in popularity, it should have something specifically relevant to Indian needs. Bangalore incidentally could be called one of the Linux capitals of India, with its active network of supporters and enthusiasts who showcase their work through events like the IT.com in November and the Bang!inux held in early summer each year. Others are also trying out their own initiatives. Dr Pavanaja, a scientist who was earlier with the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre in Mumbai and now devotes his time to promoting computer usage in Kannada through the Kannada Ganaka Parishad (see vishwakannada.com), agrees that relevant software is sorely lacking in regional languages. "The only field IT has failed to change dramatically is education. Computers can remake education. It is indeed time to begin," says he. He points to his own initiatives. 'Kannada-Kali' is a software that generates a jig-saw puzzle from Kannada alphabets. One has to fit the pieces in the right place, thus enabling youngsters or those not knowing the Kannada language to practise on its alphabet. "I don't claim you can learn Kannada using this. But it is an entry point," says Dr Pavanaja. He has also put together a Kannada version of LOGO, the logic-oriented, graphic-oriented software that is used as a tool to teach young children the basic concepts needed for programming. It is still under development. So far, only a few keywords required for the LOGO program have been completed. Some 300 more keywords are yet to be done. Dr Pavanaja is more than open to the idea of freely sharing his 'intellectual property'. In fact, the Kannada-Kali program has a prominently distributed message: "Feel free to distribute this among your Kannada friends." In such a situation of scarcity, it is indeed laudable to see some of those working on such themes to be more than willing to share the fruit of their labour generously, without thinking about monetary gain. Of course, at the end of the day, much of the Indian educational software scarcity simply boils down to a question of economics. In spite of their millions-strong numbers, the rural dweller simply doesn't have the purchasing power. So why should anyone bother with writing software specifically for him? Even if this is a country that is increasingly claiming the status of being the world's software superpower. (ENDS) -------------------------------------------------- | Frederick Noronha, Freelance Journalist | | 784, Near Lourdes Convent, Saligao 403511 Goa | | Tel 0091.832.409490/409783 Mobile: 9822.12 24 36 | | E-mail: fred@bytesforall.org or fred@vsnl.com | /) URL-http://www.bytesforall.org | / URL-http://www.goacom.com/news/ \\ _( (+-------------------------------------------------+) ) /| (((\ \) /_) /^) / /))/ (\\\\ \_/ / \ \_ / / // \ / \ / \ __/ \__ / | | | | /*******\ /*******\ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 05:18:54 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (K.R.Srivathsan) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 10:48:54 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: Message-ID: <3B6CD73E.1020604@iiitmk.org> Dear all, The best way to promote FS is through a constructive approach. Pointing out failures of non-FS to deliver and how we are being taken for a ride is not going to take us far. We must highlight FS successes, educate the yougsters, the decision makers, etc. Decision makers often have little time and work under all kinds of pressures. They often need experts to advice and this they dont get. Instead of projecting Fredom, Democracy, etc. , we have to educate on what is in the national and society's interests. If it sounds too much of an ideology, many well meaning people will quietly distance themselves. They need guidelines to promote natonal interests - ones that are whetted by well respected experts, mot by that of a group perceived by them having some colour. We can evolve some healWe have to remember that being in this world, free and 'not-free' will continue to exist - as humans there will always be some possessive and some enlightened with varying proportions in everyone of us. Here I am proposing a set of guidelines that we can opine upon and participate in a National Seminar on this issue. In any services projects of the Government, preference may be given in the following order, with due weightage for the backup services support capability. i) Free Software based developments with professional services support. ii) Open software with professional services support. iii) Any relevant mix of (i), (ii); or (i), (ii) and (iv) as second priority. iv) Proporietory solutions that guarantee freedom from undesirable cookies and with known input and output formats. so that these systems can be expanded by intergration with other systems. v) Proprietory solutions with unknown input / output formats and guarantee of freedom from user unknown cookies. vi) Proprietory software with unknown cookies should have the lowest priority in the category. Project sponsors should demand from software and services suppliers the open specifications of the products they offer as per the above guidelines. We also msut oppose (as the Europeans are doing) software patents. It is a minefield not unlike the issues under bioiversity and traditional herbal medicine practices. we must develop a national consensus and against software patents. If we do that, even organizations like NASSCOM, will respect our contribution. Otherwise they will continue to be under the clutches of multinational lobbies. We also must constructively assist FS based industries by evolving services backups for FS solutions. In fact it is because of the ---------------------------------------------------------------- I NEED ONE MORE ASISTANCE in the following. I am opening an Authoring Web site at iiitmk.ac.in We shall start posing a number issues concerning specific learning modules. Experts may send us contents that we shall titch together as courses. Send me any amount of problems, solutions, mini-projects (for students practice) in FS that I can use for classrooms and freely distribute to others. Let us give a FS learning platform for colleges to use. In particular I am looking for the following courses. 1. Data Structures and Algorithms. 2. Programming Languages - with examples from C, C++ and Java. (Big US Schools use Scheme as the base languages as best suited for teaching. Java may be as good. Give your opinion). 3. Operating Systems - with text as Applied Operating Systems by Silbetschatz, et al - and prefer GNU/Linux and C as the learning support. 4. Web Technologies - over Apache, Sun Java, Mozilla, etc. 5. RDBMS, ODBC based applications, OODB - what FS? We also need to prepare a School Learning Platforms over FS. Need to define some role for IT in school. Not of the kind it is today. Can any one help? The developed courses will be available a Free Courseware. Unless we begin teaching young impressionable age group the technology using, we shall not have the stamina to do the long-distance. Remeber there are many applied areas of Software where Free aproaches are yet to touch. Best wishes, srivathsan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof. K.R. Srivathsan Tel: (+91 471) 527567(O); Director 324258(R) Indian Institute of Information Technology Fax: 527568 and Management - Kerala Park Centre, Technopark Email: director@iiitmk.org Thiruvananthapuram - 695 581 Home : www.iiitmk.org Kerala, India ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 06:53:59 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 12:23:59 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State government which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I am making it as general-purpose as possible so that more people are willing to sign it: this is not a time for family squabbles. I'd appreciate any additions/enhancements which can be made to this letter. URL's highlighting the points discussed would also be a great idea. Not being an activist, I cannot suggest the proper methods for getting this letter signed and circulated to the right authorities. Dear We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom proponents in India are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans to base your complete e-governance infrastructure on a single foreign company's products. The history of Microsoft has shown that it has very little regard for serving any objectives except its own, which does not augur well for the future of in particular and our country in general. We request you to kindly consider the following points before making this relationship permanent: 1. Security. Microsoft products have time and again demonstrated a regrettable lack of basic security features. Recent incidents which have affected a sizeable portion of Microsoft-based servers and client systems on the Internet have served to highlight the fact that Microsoft makes Insecure Products. The Code Red worm (computer virus) infected millions of servers on the Internet in June 2001 and coordinated them (without their administrators consent) to simultaneously attack the US White House web site. The worm is still alive though dormant and no one knows exactly where and when it will strike again. Needless to say, this worm only affects computers running Microsoft's most popular web server. Only a few days after the infamous Code Red attacks (on August 5, 2001), another worm which infects Microsoft-based web servers has been discovered and is at the time of writing being analysed to discover its potential to disrupt the world's computing and networking infrstructure. The SIRCAM virus which replicates itself using e-mail as the medium has been deemed such a major threat to computing infrastructure that Microsoft and the FBI have taken the unprecendented step of releasing a joint warning notice against it to all computer users in July 2001. Again, the SIRCAM virus only affects e-mail users who use Microsoft's products -- all other software is immune to this threat. These are but two symptoms of the general malaise that Microsoft's products suffer from. Each time a product is fixed using patches from Microsoft, new security holes in the product are uncovered, leading to another wave of infection. In fact, there have been cases of a problem fix from Microsoft uncovering older (previously-fixed) problems and making them active again; there are no signs that these issues will ever be completely resolved. 2. Total cost of ownership (TCO) The Total Cost of Ownership of Microsoft's products is much higher than that of other, equivalent, better technologies. With their new licensing model, Microsoft has ensured that those unfortunate enough to invest in their products keep paying for the product, not only at purchase time but throughout the lifetime of the product on an annual basis. We believe that it is possible to save this outflow and redeploy it in other areas in the state which need investments. In addition hardware requirements for running Microsoft are substantially higher than those of competing products from other sources. In many cases a computer running a competing product will cost half of and handle ten times the load that a computer configuration running Microsoft products would. 3. Internal security Microsoft is a company owned by American citizens, having its base of operations in the USA and subject to US laws. A clear effect of this was evidenced in 1999 when it was discovered that some of the security and cryptography functions built into Microsoft's operating systems were subject to be used by the US National Security Agency (NSA) without explicit permission from either Microsoft or the user of the software. This is one lone ``feature'' of Microsoft software which came to light due to the vigilance of a concerned individual. However it is quite possible (indeed, likely) that there are other ways in which Microsoft products are designed and constructed to permit illegal access by US security agencies. As concerned Indians, we would wish to be secure in the knowledge that the software handling our critical information about Government and individuals will not permit foreign Governments to spy upon, or, even worse, arbitrarily modify it without the consent or knowledge of our elected representatives and the Government machine. 4. Flexibility India being a unique country it is very likely that we will wish to adapt the software managing our Government information flows to our specific requirements from time to time. With Microsoft products it will not be possible to do this in any sort of time-bound manner, if it is possible at all. For instance, we may want to create cheap Intel 486-based computers for members of the bureaucracy which they can use to access their e-mail. Building such a low-cost computer with Microsoft software would be impossible since the building blocks of the software (the ``source code'', which is the blueprint for the software) is only available with Microsoft. As users, we will not be able to customise and modify the software to our requirements. To take another example, Microsoft is subject to US Government rules which prohibit the export of some forms of strong data encryption and decryption (scrambling and descrambling) technologies to India except under special conditions. As long as we are using Microsoft products, these technologies will not be available to us and we will be forced to use sub-standard, easily breakable techniques to protect our critical data. 5. Alternatives Given these facts, we strongly urge you to consider alternative technologies and sources for software for mission- and government-critical functions like State e-governance. The GNU/Linux operating system (sometimes also called just ``Linux'') suffers from none of the defects of Microsoft operating systems and applications detailed above and is already the fastest-growing server operating system in the world today. Some of the features of GNU/Linux which make it a viable and desirable component of any Government infrastructure are: - GNU/Linux has not to date been subject to any virus attacks anywhere near the severity of the worms and virii which are infecting Microsoft systems on a nearly daily basis. - The operating system itself and all the applications required to build a safe, secure and efficient infrastructure are available free of cost and can even be downloaded from the Internet. The hardware configuration of systems required to run GNU/Linux is much lower than that of corresponding systems required to run Microsoft products. There is no fee at all -- neither one-time nor recurring -- for using GNU/Linux. - The source code for the operating system and applications is available for perusal and modification. Using GNU/Linux, the Government can be assured that there are they are not at the mercy of any foreign government which can arm-twist Microsoft into putting hidden back-doors into their products. The Government can also give this assurance to the electorate. - Since the source code (i.e. the building blocks) of GNU/Linux is generally available, the Government can, if it so chooses, modify, extend and customise the software for its specific requirements. For instance, it is quite feasible to replace existing encryption techniques in GNU/Linux with those certified by the DRDO, leading to much better and auditable levels of security. Such enhancemente are not possible with Microsoft software. - Many national governments have blacklisted Microsoft products and specifically selected GNU/Linux to host applications managing and monitoring State and Central functions. We request you to critically consider any decision to purchase Microsoft products in the light of the information given above, and to give serious consideration to using alternative technologies which have a much lower cost, are more reliable and secure, and can be easily enhanced to fit in with our national objectives. >>>>> "Satyakam" == Satyakam Goswami writes: Satyakam> FSF wake up this news comes at a bad time there are Satyakam> efforts from different directions to make WB a Free Satyakam> Software State. Can we all make a presentation on this Satyakam> immediately at least the board members can write Satyakam> somethin to this senior official in WBEIDC and explain Satyakam> them that they are getting a one way ticket. Satyakam> A senior official at the West Bengal Electronics Satyakam> Industry Development Corp (Webel) said the deal with Satyakam> Microsoft would help the state woo investments in the Satyakam> information technology sector. Satyakam> the closest contact info i could get was the following. Satyakam> http://www.wbidc.com/contact.htm Satyakam> the Westbengal.com site did not list email id's of Satyakam> Ministers and the CM, they had phone numbers listed what Satyakam> a ridiculous thing to do. Satyakam> I urge we should have a strong presentation from FSF on Satyakam> the follwing issues Satyakam> 1)Investment Promises which never come, tell them to Satyakam> learn from the mistake of others. 2)You have to help Satyakam> yourself there will be nobody else helping you. Satyakam> 3)How,Why and where Free Software can help achieve there Satyakam> objectives. 4)Who is making $$ in this SLACK phase?? Satyakam> cheers S.Goswami >> WB Govt ties up with MSFT >> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010804/tc/india_microsoft_dc_1.html >> >> One would think they would be better off tying up with RedHat >> or SuSE or the FSF >> >> Who wants a government that has to be patched every week....? -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:14:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:44:08 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Interview with RMS Message-ID: <3B6E1990.D1EBFEE7@ti.com> http://juraj.bednar.sk/work/prace/computer/freesoft/stallman.php -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 5 04:01:55 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 05 Aug 2001 09:31:55 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86hevnyx1o.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> R Sai Kiran writes: > Well, I have a slightly different point of view here. I claim > that, you first get the people to start using the GNU/Linux systems, and > very soon, the whole *philosophy* behind the movement becomes clear to > them. It won't work. This is like suggesting that people who use Microsoft, or any other proprietary software for that matter, automatically, and "very soon," understand the whole philosophy behind *those* companies, which is profit-at-any-cost, to-hell-with-the-users'-rights, die-hard capitalism. You can't just start people off with GNU/Linux and *hope* that somehow, *magically*, the philosophy of Free Software will dawn on them just by using GNU/Linux. This is clearly putting the proverbial cart before the horse. I've noticed in this thread the emphasis on spreading GNU/Linux, the operating system, in schools without any mention about spreading the *concept* of Free Software. Somebody seems to be forgetting that GNU/Linux is NOT the goal, the end-all and be-all of Free Software. At best, it can be shown as a good example of Free Software while advocating the philosophy. > The GNU + GPL is a rather new thing. Don't let RMS hear you saying this; he's been at it for more than 15 years now. > Please note, all I'm saying is we really need people to start > using GNU/Linux first. When I first started off with Linux, I had no idea > of the philosophy, just knew that it was free (in the free beer sense of > "free"). Over a short period of time after that, I came to know the > background stuff, the philosopy. And now, I'm pretty much in love with > it. It's the same with most people, I guess. It's definitely NOT the same with most people! You were just an exception, that's all. You came to "know the background stuff, the philosophy" probably because you made an *attempt* to know it, or somebody else made an attempt advocating it. You did not dream about it, surely. > > > Yes...the main purpose is to spread the philosophy. But, > > > we should'nt directly attack from the philosophy point. > > Why >>attack<< in the first place? If people don't understand the > > word freedom, we can ask them to read their 10th std history text > > books. I once again stress that the mission is not to convert all > > windows users to GNU/Linux users. The mission is to tell people > > about FREE software and help them to start using FREE software. > > I totally accept. But, converting the Windows users to GNU/Linus > users is the first step in making them use FREE software. Oh no, this approach to spreading Free Software is not only flawed but downright suicidal! You are falling into the same trap that the "Open Source" folks did -- "just tempt the users with the "practical" merits of our software and they will automatically switch to our camp!" This is downright bizarre! Dear Sai, you seem to be a man in a hurry, probably because you are young and full of life. Please take a break, sit back, and try to take a more holistic view of Free Software. Try to look at the bigger picture. I repeat, GNU/Linux is not the raison d'etre of Free Software -- the Movement, the Philosophy, is much, much bigger than one operating system. I envy your enthusiasm and energy -- makes me wish I was 20 years younger -- but please don't waste it simply running around installing GNU/Linux boxes in schools. Instead, go around explaining the philosophy. Give lectures, play recordings of RMS's speeches. The acceptance and installation of GNU/Linux, or any other Free Operating System for that matter, will follow as the logical and automatic next step. Create the conditions so that the schools *ask* for Free Operating Systems instead of proprietary ones. Just taking GNU/Linux to them and saying "Here, this is a nice free operating system; we assure you that it is good for you and is better than the competition; we hope you will *soon* understand the philosophy behind it!" simply won't do! The Free Software Movement is not in the Marketing business. We are in the Advocacy business, lest we forget. Trying to compete with the proprietary software *Establishment* on *their* terms and using *their* methods is, as I said earlier, downright suicidal. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:45:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satish Babu) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:15:28 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <01080610152800.11300@athena> I believe that there should be a local group who can take up this issue and lobby the government. Are we aware of any individual or groups in WB who can highlight the dangers of this tie-up? Can we operate through local NGOs? After working in NGOs for long, I think NGOs can be powerful allies in this struggle. I also think that FSF-India should be prepared, with appropriate tools (at the very least, a dossier of documents that explain our position, and quoting examples of governments of other provinces and countries) to respond to such situations at short notice. Raju's letter is powerfully drafted. I wonder if such a letter should be sent by snail-mail or e-mail? Would clogging up the CM's mailbox brand us as cyber terrorists? Ciao Satish From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:54:20 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (viswanath nukala) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 21:54:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] hi, How to find network portin & Host portion of a ip address Message-ID: <20010806045420.80134.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> hi, Friends, i'm newly joined to this mailing list and i dont know where should i post my doubt because i badly looking for some info i'm mailing ! please excuse me if i'm wrong!! Is there any way to find Network portion & Host portion of Given IP address under LInux & c platform. I know there are some funcions like getnetbyname() etc which is used for this, but this function is not supporting under linux! so is there any alternative for this? or so, how should i go forward ! can any one please help me!! with regards viswanath __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:45:34 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:15:34 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] NGOs and Free Software Message-ID: Development, Ethical Trading, and Free Software Danny Yee Last modified November 21, 1999 Abstract This paper makes the political and ethical case for the adoption of free software by Community Aid Abroad and other members of Oxfam International. It should be applicable to development agencies generally and to other organisations with similar values. Free software has obvious pragmatic advantages for community development processes, most notably in its empowerment of users. But the ideological foundations and social structure of the free software movement are also consistent with community development at a theoretical level. Feedback on this document would be appreciated: additional case studies would be particularly useful. A Community Aid Abroad appropriate information technology group has been set up, including a mailing list for discussions in this area. Contents * Introduction * Software: Drawbacks and Dangers * The Advantages of Free Software * Free Software in Action * Conclusion and Recommendations Introduction Informational goods make up a sizeable and increasing fraction of the world's trade - and an even larger fraction of profits, since margins tend to be higher (Compare Microsoft's profit/turnover ratio with General Electrics'). This trend towards an "information economy" is continuing. Ethical trading and appropriate technology policies should therefore cover informational products. With some goods the major ethical concerns are in their manufacture or the effects on the environment of their use. Examples are wheat, iron, refrigerators, and so forth. Such goods are covered by a draft Oxfam GB Ethical Purchasing Policy, which advocates products that "are produced and delivered under conditions that do not involve the abuse or exploitation of any persons" and "have the least negative impact on the environment". The policy mentioned considers weapons and baby milk powder as special cases. But there are many products other than weapons and baby milk powder whose production and delivery may raise no or only minor environmental and ethical concerns, but which may still have effects of major concern in the way they affect the autonomy and independence of users. It is the contention of this paper that software falls into this category. This paper addresses only computer software. Other intellectual property issues are also of great importance. Control of genetic variability through gene patents is one example; World Intellectual Property Organisation treaties on copyright are another. (The latter ought to receive the same sort of critical response that the Multilateral Agreement on Investment did.) This is the context for intellectual property rights enforcement. This world market in knowledge is a major and profoundly anti-democratic new stage of capitalist development. The transformation of knowledge into property necessarily implies secrecy: common knowledge is no longer private. In this new and chilling stage, communication itself violates property rights. The WTO is transforming what was previously a universal resource of the human race - its collectively, historically and freely-developed knowledge of itself and nature - into a private and marketable force of production. (Allan Freeman, Fixing up the world? GATT and the World Trade Organisation) A good deal of the world's primary resources are located in the poorer countries of the world's "South", even if their exploitation is often in the hands of external corporations. Systems for controlling the distribution of information, on the other hand, are (like possession of capital) overwhelmingly centralised in the rich "North". This should be of great concern to organisations such as Oxfam International members which take a long-term perspective in their attempts to reduce the inequitable distribution of resources. As the United Nations Sustainable Development Networking Program says: Information and Communication Technologies are now fundamental to dealing with all development issues in developing countries. An Oxfam International Education Now report presents some of the consequences of an information economy for educational equity. _________________________________________________________________ Software: Drawbacks and Dangers The following analysis of potential political and ethical dangers in software is not meant to be complete. Nor is it an analysis which applies equally to all kinds of software. There are certain key components, such as operating systems, application programming interfaces, and software with mass deployment, on which many implementations and many other software systems depend. These are more critical than software systems with peripheral roles. The Expense Software is often prohibitively expensive. The standard price for an ordinary office package might be a year's income for most of the world's people. As one Mexican project adopting free software wrote: The primary reason for reaching this decision was the kind of money we would have had to pay if we went for proprietary software: at US$55 for each machine with Win98 and Office, US$500 for every NT license and an average of 6 workstations and one server for 140000 labs, that's a lot of money. Though "discounts" are often available on software, these tend to either be in exchange for accepting a local monopoly for the vendor's products, or an attempt to gain market share at the expense of competitors. Consider, for example, Microsoft's attempts to bribe universities and colleges into using NT. So called software "piracy" is obviously an option for those unable or unwilling to purchase software, and indeed it is a common choice throughout the South, where copyright law is often poorly enforced. But this places users at the mercy of the law, increasing their vulnerability to those rich and powerful enough to use it to their own advantage. Also, development organisations themselves are vulnerable to enforcement in their home countries, so they can not support or encourage such practices. As well as the up-front costs of software, there are usually hidden costs. Often licensing is per-user, so costs will increase with the size of the user base and inhibit growth. Support for proprietary software is almost always prohibitively expensive. Frequent software upgrades may be required to maintain compatibility and functionality (consider the deliberate modification by Microsoft of the file format in successive versions of Word, in order to force users to upgrade to newer versions). And software tends, especially with upgrades, to require more powerful, and hence more expensive, hardware. These hidden costs are often recurrent. Lack of Openness Open standards and protocols are in the interests of consumers, and indeed of most businesses: they allow genuine market competition, giving users options and choices. Closed standards and protocols and technical secrets, on the contrary, benefit only those seeking to maintain or attain monopoly control of markets by decommoditizing software. (Proprietary software can, of course, use open standards and protocols, but much of it doesn't.) Security and Privacy The use of black-box proprietary software without source code creates security risks, since it makes the detection of Trojan horses rather difficult. One high-profile case is the Melissa Virus. An extreme case is government surveillance: an Australian government report (the Walsh Report, see sections 6.2.10 and 6.2.11) has recommended that security agencies arrange for back doors to be inserted into mass-market commercial software to allow eavesdropping. Perhaps it is paranoia to think that the United States National Security Agency has already arranged for this to be done, but when peoples' lives are at stake, can one really trust (say) Microsoft Word when vulnerable West Papuan or East Timorese activists are involved? From a privacy point of view, some worrying features are known to have been built into popular proprietary software packages. Microsoft Windows and recent versions of Office include a unique computer identifier in all documents - an identifier which is sent to Microsoft on registration of software, as well as in cookies set by Microsoft's web site. The implications of this for anyone trying to maintain anonymous - whistle-blowers and activists most obviously - are frightening. (See analysis and a news report from CNET; Paul Ferris points the obvious argument for free software in "Of Corporations, Privacy, and Open Source Software".) The Creation of New Dependencies Proprietary software increases the dependence of individuals, organisations, and communities on external forces - typically large corporations with a very poor track record on acting in the public interest. There are dependencies for support, installation and problem fixing, sometimes in critical systems. There are dependencies for upgrades and compatibility. There are dependencies when modification or extended functionality is required. And there are ongoing financial dependencies if licensing is recurrent. Political dependencies can result from the use of proprietary software, too. For example, an Irish ISP under attack for hosting the top level East Timor domain .tp was helped out by hackers and community activists (setting up a secure Linux installation). Given that this attack was probably carried out with the connivance of elements of the Indonesian government, it is hard to see a commercial vendor with a significant market presence in Indonesia being so forthcoming with support. Nearly exact parallels to this exist in agriculture, where the patenting of seed varieties and genome sequences and the creation of non-seeding varieties are used to impose long-term dependencies on farmers. An Analogy: Baby-milk Powder The effects of baby-milk powder on poor infants (which has sparked a Nestle campaign/boycott) provide an analogy to the effects of proprietary software. Sending information in Microsoft Word format to correspondents in Eritrea is analagous to Nestle advertising baby milk powder to Indian mothers. It encourages the recipients to go down a path which is not in their best interests, and from which it is not easy for them to recover. The apparent benefits (the doctor recommended it; we will be able to read the documents sent to us) may be considerable and the initial costs involved (to stop breast-feeding and switch to milk powder; to start using Microsoft Office) may be subsidised, hidden, or zero (with "piracy"), but the long-term effects are to make the recipients dependent on expensive recurrent inputs, and to burden them with ultimately very high costs. Moreover, because documents can be easily copied and because there are strong pressures to conform to group/majority standards in document formats, pushing individuals towards proprietary software and document formats can snowball to affect entire communities, not just the individuals initially involved. Restrictions on Self-help Proprietary software not only creates new dependencies: it actively hinders self-help, mutual aid, and community development. * Users cannot freely share software with others in the community, or with other communities. * The possibilities for building local support and maintainance systems are limited. * Modification of software to fit local needs is not possible, leaving communities with software designed to meet the needs of wealthy Northern users and companies, which may not be appropriate for them. An Example: Language Support Language support provides a good example of the advantages of free software in allowing people to adapt products to their own ends and take control of their lives. Operating systems and word processing software support only a limited range of languages. Iceland, in order to help preserve its language, wants Icelandic support added to Microsoft Windows - and is even willing to pay for it. But without access to the source code - and the right to modify it - they are totally dependent on Microsoft's cooperation. (See an article in the Seattle Times and an article by Martin Vermeer which argues that lack of software localisation is a threat to cultural diversity.) Whatever the outcome of this particular case, it must be noted that Iceland is hardly a poor or uninfluential nation. There is absolutely no hope of Windows being modified to support Aymara or Lardil or other indigenous languages: the spread of such proprietary software will continue to contribute to their marginalisation. In contrast, the source code to the GNU/Linux operating system is available and can be freely modified, so groups are able to add support for their languages. See, as an example, the KDE Internationalization Page (KDE is a desktop for GNU/Linux) or a project to localise GNU/Linux for Indian languages. Another example of the kind of thing that access to source code allows is the Omega Typesetting System, a modification of the free TeX typesetting system "designed for printing all of the world's languages, modern or ancient, common or rare"; this sort of extension or modification is simply not possible with proprietary word-processing packages. Unsustainable Sustainable development should favour unlimited resources over finite ones. But while software appears to be a renewable resource, its control by profit-making corporations, as Intellectual Property, effectively turns it into a finite resource. _________________________________________________________________ The Advantages of Free Software What is Free Software? The Free Software Foundation's "What is Free Software?" provides a good introduction to free software. `Free software'' refers to the users' freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. More precisely, it refers to three levels of freedom: * The freedom to study how the program works and adapt it to your needs. * The freedom to redistribute copies so you can share with your neighbor. * The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits. A key point is that "free" refers to liberty, not price. Software is only "free" if users have the freedom to copy, modify, and distribute it, and to share it with others. A key necessity for this is access to the source code. Prominent examples of free software are the Linux kernel and the GNU system environment, which together constitute a complete operating system (an alternative to Windows or MacOS), and the Apache web server and sendmail mail transport agent, which between them provide more than 50% of the Internet's web sites and handle perhaps 80% of the world's email. Pragmatic Advantages Quite independently of any ethical and political considerations, there are also pragmatic and technical arguments for the deployment of free software systems. * Some free software products are widely recognised as more reliable and robust, more powerful, and more secure than their proprietary counterparts, and a plausible argument can be made that this is not just accidental, but a consequence of their open development, implementation, and testing. Rob Bos puts it well in 32bitsonline Free software is better than non-free software. It works better, it works faster, it works longer. Open source programs are tried and proven, they are constantly pressed from every direction to do specific tasks, and do them well; and for the simple reason that they are written to work, not simply to sell copies. Free software doesn't just work better, it works orders of magnitude better. Open sourcing an application gives the source code to a large number of developers, instead of a small, tight group. Free software projects have a pool of developers and an effective budget multiple times higher than an equivalent proprietary development project, and will, given all other equal things, advance at a rate many times faster because of their access to an much larger development team. Peer review of code isn't just a pipe dream, it is an essential means to writing superior applications, no matter where they are written. * Free software can typically be obtained for the cost of the media (typically a few dollars for a CD) or network traffic (for distribution via computer networks). It can always be freely distributed. The pragmatic benefits of this should be obvious, but in some contexts the price of free software can also take on political significance: I live in India, one of the poorest countries in the world, with a large number of awfully bright, poor people. In India, today, the entry-level programmer (C knowledge but no work experience) earns $100 a month, and it is not routine for him to have a computer at home. Entry-level computers at $250 and below will attract millions of buyers in India, who will find the difference between $250 and $750 to be a massive one. Industry experts look at around 200 million existing computers, 80% of which run Microsoft OSes. It's useful to focus on the next billion computer sales. In this, I see the price-tag of $0 as being a critical product feature. Ajay Shah - Unix on a billion desktops? * Free software is often less demanding of resources, extending the lifespan of older hardware. As an example of what this allows, consider Project Computer Bank, an Australian venture to supply old computer equipment running GNU/Linux to low income earners, community groups, and disadvantaged schools. Freedom From Dependencies ``Community Aid Abroad's vision is for a fair world in which people control their own lives, their basic rights are achieved and the environment is sustained.'' (emphasis added) Free software does not create dependencies on multinational corporations. Support commonly comes from user groups and online communities, which often provide vastly better support than commercial alternatives. Commercial support is available for free software systems, but users of free software can not be tied to single suppliers or vendors. Access to the source code greatly increases users' options. It allows not just the unrestricted sharing of software packages but also their easy modification to suit local needs and requirements. The value of free software in avoiding dependencies has been recognised by businesses and by governments. Let's say you are a chief technical officer (CTO) at a Fortune 500 company and you have just spent millions of dollars on a strategic business system with software you cannot see inside and cannot modify, software that depends on a single vendor to service. Now are those systems going to change to serve your business plan or your vendor's business plan? ...it probably will not be long before buying closed-source software for your key infrastructure is considered the height of irresponsibility. Eric S. Raymond in Intellectual Capital "Scandinavia, Germany, and France are some of the main centers of Linux use. Some people say that this is because companies and the government want to avoid becoming too dependent on U.S. -- read Microsoft -- products." Kalle Dalheimer, quoted in OSS Europe Development of free software is done by those who have the necessary skills and resources - the resulting products are available for use by whoever needs it. With Linux, the people who use the system get to [affect the way] the system [develops]. It's democracy in the sense that you don't surrender control. Anybody can do anything. It boils down to [the fact that] you must be [competent], but that's a good way of separating the people who do the work. And even the [people who] don't make changes can make suggestions and can do testing and things like that. Linus Torvalds, interview with upsidedown.com. Shared Values Most free software has been produced through decentralised, community-based development processes which are usually open to anyone with the right technical skills (or a willingness to learn) who is prepared to do the work. Users of free software can join software development communities and participate in the refinement and improvement of existing software, or in the development of entirely new programs, building on what already exists. Many free software development projects are almost model community development projects. They are based on open communication, inclusiveness, personal relationships, and working for the good of the community as a whole. In a paper Technology and Pleasure, Gisle Hannemyr describes the history of the "hacker" community, placing it in the artisan tradition and in opposition to Taylorism. He describes its imperatives as: * reject hierarchies * mistrust authority * promote decentralization * share information * serve your community and includes among its position statements: * when creating computer artifacts, not only the observable results, but the craftsmanship in execution matters * practice is superior to theory * people should only be judged on merit (not by appearance, age, race or position) * you can create art and beauty by the means of a computer The long-term effects of free software and associated changes are likely to be significant: Oscar Wilde says somewhere that the problem with socialism is that it takes up too many evenings. The problems with anarchism as a social system are also about transaction costs. But the digital revolution alters two aspects of political economy that have been otherwise invariant throughout human history. All software has zero marginal cost in the world of the Net, while the costs of social coordination have been so far reduced as to permit the rapid formation and dissolution of large-scale and highly diverse social groupings entirely without geographic limitation. Such fundamental change in the material circumstances of life necessarily produces equally fundamental changes in culture. Ebden Moglen, Anarchism Triumphant: Free Software and the Death of Copyright In many ways the ethics of free software reflect that of the Internet community more generally - a community which is still resisting commercialisation of the Net. Education and Technology Transfer Free software both encourages learning and experimentation and in turn benefits from it. Free software is widespread in educational institutions, since access to the source code makes free software an ideal tool for teaching: indeed much free software began as learning exercises. Due to low start-up costs and rapid change, software development and the information economy more generally offer a possible way for the South to build high value industries, leapfrogging older technologies and even modes of production. The flourishing Indian software industry provides an obvious example. But if these industries are built on proprietary products and protocols owned by multinational corporations, then this will only reinforce one-sided dependencies. Free software has obvious advantages here. Free software lends itself to collaborative, community-based development at all scales from cottage industry to world-wide efforts involving the collaboration of thousands of people. Internet access potentially offers the poor the ability to communicate directly with the rest of the world, to directly present their own ideas and perspectives. Combined with the free software development model, it allows them to participate in creating and moulding the technologies and systems that will determine their future. _________________________________________________________________ Free Software in Action The advantages of free software for community and development organisations have been recognised by others: The arguments sketched above apply not just to development organisations but to governments and to some extent even to businesses. The United Nations UNESCO is handing out free Linux CDROMs to community, scientific, and educational projects in Latin America. We believe LINUX can play a very important role in Latin American and Caribbean modernisation, constructing networks to permit a great number of universities, colleges, schools and educational centers, to connect to Internet in order to use this fabulous tool to improve their scientific and cultural levels. In a few words, LINUX is the tool which permits to reduce the "technological gap" between the countries. LINUX permits the acces to "the informatics the most advanced" implemented according to the reduced economic capacities in our region. LINUX is a new way to make informatics, where the most important thing is "the technical quality and people solidarity" And the UNDP is running a Sustainable Development Networking Program, with support from the Linux vendor Red Hat. Mexico's Scholar Net (http://www.linux.org.mx/arturo/scholar/) I work as the project leader of the "Scholar Net", a program that aims to bring computers and the net to every elementary and mid-level school in Mexico. We expect to install from 20 to 35 thousand labs per year to a total of 140,000 centers in the next five years. Due to matters of cost, reliability and configurability, we plan to use GNU/Linux to replace the proprietary server options and, now thanks to GNOME, the proprietary desktop application options. SatelLife SatelLife is an international not-for-profit organization employing satellite, telephone and radio networking technology to serve the health communication and information needs of countries in the developing world. http://www.data.com/issue/981021/people.html For starters, the staff of Satellife had to seek out and master technologies cheap enough for users in the world's poorest countries but reliable enough to deliver vital medical information fast. And the organization didn't have the funds that corporate IT departments have for equipment and software-so it used free and open-source software to link users to forums. And as the Internet became a more vital tool, Satellife had to make sure that users without browsers could still get information via the Web. It also used second-hand gear where possible and relied on research institutes and discussion groups, rather than high-priced consultants, for advice. The Littlefish Health Project Project Vision: "To create a user friendly patient information and recall system on an open source basis with the focus on use by community based primary health care health organisations in the developing world or remote and rural areas or areas of need. (And Daniel L. Johnson has written a paper on free software in medical information management.) The Community Broadcasting Association of Australia (CBAA) An impassioned but carefully put together argument for use of Linux by the CBAA. Arguing on both technical and ethical grounds, most of this is directly relevant to development organisations. The open source movement, and Linux is particular, are massive volunteer non-profit projects which share the spirit of community media. It's a radical alternative movement creating successful mainstream software. In fact, it's the same movement that produced the software that the internet revolution depends on. Now the movement has produced a cutting edge technology which suits the CBAA's needs far better than the commercial competition. The technology is Linux. A Linux server is one the CBAA could be proud of. (Also mentioned in a Newswire story on the politics of software.) _________________________________________________________________ Conclusion and Recommendations The free software movement embodies principles consistent with those of Community Aid Abroad and Oxfam International. Free software products are tools which fit the needs of Oxfam International members, in many cases better than alternative proprietary products. It is therefore recommended that: * Development organisations should include software in their policies on ethical purchasing and appropriate technology; such policies should encourage the use of free software and open protocols. * Development organisations should encourage and assist project partners in the deployment of software systems that will enable them to "take control of their own destiny", and to reduce their dependence on the developed world. They should consider the major advantages free software has in this area. * Development organisations should ultimately try to free themselves from the shackles of proprietary software. Danny Yee (danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au) _________________________________________________________________ The author is one of the Community Aid Abroad webmasters, a board member of Electronic Frontiers Australia, and an employee of Sydney University. But the opinions expressed in this paper are personal and do not necessarily reflect the policies of any of these organisations. Thanks to Cameron Tampion, Mike Gifford, Charlie Brady, Greg Taylor, Ronni Martin, and Richard Stallman for feedback on this document. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 05:49:40 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rejin NS) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:19:40 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] e-governance Message-ID: <001701c11e3b$97e2a000$0e00a8c0@PITSOL> Hello, It is disturbing to note that e-governance initiatives are taken without visualising the whole picture. I think the Kerala IT Mission is using GNU/Linux. Andhra Pradesh has also e-governance systems in place. So at the end, will we have another e-governance initiative for India as a whole? Is it not logical for us to develop interoperable systems? Obviously there will be common functionality. Who is the right agency for overseeing this? Who will set standards? Along with communicating our thoughts to the Govt. of WB, should we not impress upon the Central Govt.? Regards, Rejin. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 06:01:54 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:31:54 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF-India] GNU/Linux in Schools In-Reply-To: <86hevnyx1o.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> References: <86hevnyx1o.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <20010806113154.A1590@debianut.ekmnet> [Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 09:31:55AM +0530] Khuzaima A. Lakdawala : > The Free Software Movement is not in the Marketing business. > We are in the Advocacy business, lest we forget. Well put, we now need people talking more about *free* software. The Open Source guys say that talk is nonsensical, they say show us the code...a sure fire recipe for disaster ! Shall we go to the schools and colleges and talk about the GNU, about *freedom and computing* ? -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 05:10:46 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:40:46 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <01080610152800.11300@athena> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 at 10:15, Satish Babu wrote: In the first place, I should thank Raju for coming out with a powerful letter. I believe that there should be a local group who can take up this issue and lobby the government. Are we aware of any individual or groups in WB who can highlight the dangers of this tie-up? Can we operate through local NGOs? After working in NGOs for long, I think NGOs can be powerful allies in this struggle. This seems to be a viable method in the local level to put pressure on the WB government. I also think that FSF-India should be prepared, with appropriate tools (at the very least, a dossier of documents that explain our position, and quoting examples of governments of other provinces and countries) to respond to such situations at short notice. Exactly. Raju's letter is powerfully drafted. I wonder if such a letter should be sent by snail-mail or e-mail? Would clogging up the CM's mailbox brand us as cyber terrorists? Why not we have a web page for all those interested to sign? We shall keep the page for a period of one week or ten days and propagate the news to all the mailing lists inviting people to sign the document. After the specified period, we can submit a mass memorandum to the WB government. In the meantime, FSF Board can work out the dossier of documents. Any thoughts? -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 06:02:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:32:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] GNU/Linux in Schools from a guy in school In-Reply-To: <001101c11c9d$2714c3c0$0cc96565@dreammachine>; from varun@cilmail.com on Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 02:30:11PM +0530 References: <3B68CE92.CFA321AB@nsc.ernet.in> <20010802162112.A778@orion> <001101c11c9d$2714c3c0$0cc96565@dreammachine> Message-ID: <20010806113257.A13907@mailandnews.com> On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 02:30:11PM +0530, Varun Sinha wrote: > > But the truth is my principal isn't all that concerned about free software; > he is much more interested in setting up a full-fledged computer system at a > fraction of the cost it would cost him to do so using proprietary software > (we don't have one right now). A school is a place where people are supposed to learn some thing. What is the use of having all the non free software in the world in a school, when you are not even free to find out how it works (you are a pirate if you try). Ofcource, the school can boast of a >>full-fledged computer system<<, but students are not going to benefit. So I feel that your principal is wrong. FREEDOM is the main (and only reason for a private school atleast) to switch to free software. > Besides the fact that the software itself is > a lot more cost-effective, the hardware costs would also be greatly reduced. True, but suppose someone donates a whole lab to the school, but with non free software. It is going to be of very little use to students. > > The only downside I can think of is training and support. People who know > about proprietary software are dime-a-dozen You mean people who know to click a mouse button and cause a drop down menu to drop down. Such knowlege is not worth teaching in a school. > The point about using GUI for most tasks seems to make sense. It would be > alot easier for people, especially teachers (students might be able to) to > work with GUI. I feel that the choice of interface should be left to the user. > > My entire opinion is based mainly with my school in mind, maybe the > situation is different in other places. A school is not more important at the students who expect to learn something from the school. It may be good to be patriotic about a school but not at the cost of its students. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 08:34:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:04:52 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <3B6CD73E.1020604@iiitmk.org>; from director@iiitmk.org on Sun, Aug 05, 2001 at 10:48:54AM +0530 References: <3B6CD73E.1020604@iiitmk.org> Message-ID: <20010806140451.C1207@orion> > The best way to promote FS is through a constructive approach. Pointing > out failures of non-FS to deliver and how we are being taken for a ride > is not going to take us far. We must highlight FS successes, educate the > yougsters, the decision makers, etc. True. > Decision makers often have little time and work under all kinds of > pressures. They often need experts to advice and this they dont get. > Instead of projecting Fredom, Democracy, etc. , we have to educate on > what is in the national and society's interests. If it sounds too much Freedom and Democracy are two major interests of our nation. > We can evolve some healWe have to remember that being in this world, > free and 'not-free' will continue to exist - as humans there will always Fight for freedom never ends. > iv) Proporietory solutions that guarantee freedom from undesirable > cookies and with known input and output formats. so that these systems > can be expanded by intergration with other systems. > v) Proprietory solutions with unknown input / output formats and > guarantee of freedom from user unknown cookies. > vi) Proprietory software with unknown cookies should have the lowest > priority in the category. Is it ever possible to make sure that Proprietory solutions doesnt have 'undesirable cookies' ? Especially if the solution comes from US. (Which has got a very 'clean' history of putting malicious components in what they export.) > guidelines. We also msut oppose (as the Europeans are doing) software > patents. It is a minefield not unlike the issues under bioiversity and > traditional herbal medicine practices. we must develop a national > consensus and against software patents. Yes, we must. And consensus against NDA in educational institutions. > I am opening an Authoring Web site at iiitmk.ac.in > > We shall start posing a number issues concerning specific learning > modules. Experts may send us contents that we shall titch together as > courses. > > Send me any amount of problems, solutions, mini-projects (for students > practice) in FS that I can use for classrooms and freely distribute to > others. Let us give a FS learning platform for colleges to use. In > particular I am looking for the following courses. It is an excellent idea and there are few other initiatives like this. They may also join. www.andamooka.org is one of them. > 1. Data Structures and Algorithms. > 2. Programming Languages - with examples from C, C++ and Java. (Big US > Schools use Scheme as the base languages as best suited for teaching. > Java may be as good. Give your opinion). I prefer Scheme/Guile and Python. Python is excellent learning tool. > 3. Operating Systems - with text as Applied Operating Systems by > Silbetschatz, et al - and prefer GNU/Linux and C as the learning support. > 4. Web Technologies - over Apache, Sun Java, Mozilla, etc. > 5. RDBMS, ODBC based applications, OODB - what FS? PostgresSQL and MySQL > We also need to prepare a School Learning Platforms over FS. Need to > define some role for IT in school. Not of the kind it is today. Yes it is an important area of work. > Can any one help? The developed courses will be available a Free Courseware. (Under GNU FDL ?) > Unless we begin teaching young impressionable age group the technology > using, we shall not have the stamina to do the long-distance. True. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:42:59 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:12:59 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] Microsoft and GPL Message-ID: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 | Last Updated 11:19am Why is Microsoft Attacking the GPL? by Bryan Pfaffenberger , 27-June-2001 Microsoft sees a threat to its underlying business model, which explains the virulence of this particular round of FUD. First it was "un-American"; now it's a "virus", a "cancer" and -- are you ready for this -- "Pac-Man". Microsoft's high-profile, expensive and carefully planned attack on open-source software is swinging into high gear; so is speculation about exactly what the company hopes to achieve. Typical is the conclusion of an analyst quoted by CNET News.com: Linux has emerged as a "spoiler that will prevent Microsoft from achieving a dominant position" in the server operating system market. By means of an especially virulent FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) campaign, Microsoft hopes to scare companies away from Linux and toward Microsoft's newest offering, Windows XP. So far as it goes, this analysis is surely correct. Viewed from the perspective of business history, however, this FUD campaign seems mysteriously out of proportion with the threat actually posed by its supposed object, Linux. Sure, Linux is a threat, and that's especially true now that Linux is being so strongly backed by Microsoft's remaining market opponents, including IBM. But the FUD campaign isn't directed against Linux. Aside from occasional digs at Linux, the campaign is directed against the licensing scheme, called the General Public License (GPL), that Linux uses. To be sure, the analysts have an explanation for this, too. The GPL is controversial even within the Open Source community, so you attack Linux by attacking the GPL. But I think there's more to it. Here's my argument, in a nutshell: Business history teaches the following lesson: When a market-dominating firm engages in a FUD campaign of this magnitude, it's not merely because they're scared of competition from a new market entrant. Often, it's because the new market entrant is seen to challenge the business model that has enabled the market-dominant firm to make huge gobs of money. I believe the GPL does pose a threat to Microsoft's business model, and that's why the free software licensing scheme is under such concerted attack. Specifically, the GPL threatens Microsoft's ability to preserve what economists and legal scholars (as well as the judge in the Microsoft antitrust case) call the "application barrier to entry" -- the primary means by which Microsoft has been able to establish and preserve commanding dominance in its core markets. I'll make this argument by recounting the story of the archetypical FUD campaign, IBM's 1970s-era effort to discredit the upstart Amdahl Corporation. I'll also examine some of the evidence that's come to light -- some of it from the lips of none other than Gates himself -- since Microsoft's FUD campaign started. Let me apologize in advance for the length of this essay; the issues are too important to be glossed over. But I've included lots of subheadings so you can skim around, if you like. Classical FUD: IBM vs. Amdahl When ex-IBM executive Gene Amdahl founded Amdahl Corporation in 1970, he reflected gloomily that the new company would soon become the target of an aggressive IBM marketing strategy, which Amdahl termed "fear, uncertainty, and doubt" (FUD). As subsequent events affirmed, Amdahl's prediction was right on the money, and IBM's FUD campaign nearly put Amdahl out of business. IBM in the 1970s was huge profits with little incentive to innovate. Here's the background. IBM's mid-century executives, like those of other manufacturing firms, knew perfectly well that maximum profits follow from a "leasing-only, no-sales" policy; as economists have since theoretically demonstrated, such a policy maximizes revenues because it keeps secondary goods off the market. But US antitrust prosecution, culminating in a 1956 consent decree, forced IBM to sell as well as lease its computers. For federal regulators, the consent decree was a hollow victory. IBM neatly side-stepped the regulatory framework by means of measures such as net pricing, in which the cost of IBM installation labor was bundled into the price of IBM computer systems; customers who wished to purchase non-IBM, third-party peripherals were thus forced to pay two installation fees -- which meant that most of them chose to stay with IBM's equipment. And when IBM installed new equipment, the company generally required its customers to surrender the old equipment for "rehabilitation". Measures such as net pricing were combined with a quiet, low-level FUD campaign, which was carried out by the firm's salespeople while they were in the field. IT managers were told, "Sure, you can switch to the competitor's product, but we can't guarantee your system any more, you'll have to pay the highest per-incident charges for repairs, and we can't guarantee that our components will function correctly in the future." In other words, you're taking a dive off a cliff into the unknown, and it's going to cost your company money, and later it may cost you your job. These well-honed tactics led more than a few computing managers to agree with the famous dictum, "You'll never lose your job by choosing IBM." By means of net pricing and FUD, IBM managed to side-step antitrust regulation and retained control of the secondary market. With almost obscene profits and rapid growth, all was well at IBM, except there was little incentive to innovate. Amdahl Forms his own Company As Amdahl watched IBM's processors fall behind the technical curve, he grew increasingly concerned. At the same time that IBM was encouraging companies to move more of their business operations to IBM mainframes, the company was failing to deliver the processing horsepower that would be needed to meet customer's needs. Amdahl proposed a series of new, higher performance processors, but failed to win approval from IBM executives to develop them. Intimately familiar with IBM's processor design, Amdahl knew that it was possible to create a new generation of processors that beat IBM's products in price as well as performance. So the young engineer quit IBM and started his own company -- which still exists, incidentally, even though Amdahl is no longer associated with it. Amdahl's plans must have terrified IBM executives. Unlike IBM's ineffective and increasingly marginalized competitors, Amdahl was intimately familiar with IBM technology and proposed to manufacture IBM-compatible CPUs. If Amdahl succeeded, IBM would be transformed, in effect, into a peripheral manufacturer -- and with the loss of its control over the central processing unit would come a concomitant destruction of its highly profitable business model. The Microcode Factor What was wrong with IBM's processors? In case it has been a while since your last electrical engineering class, here's the background. A computer's central processing unit (CPU) is designed to perform a fixed number of computational operations; the list of such operations is called the CPU's instruction set. At the time, the fastest processors implemented their instruction sets by means of "hard-wired" circuits, that is, circuits built into the physical structure of the processor. When IBM designed the new series of System/360 computers, the first product line to include a range of compatible machines, the decision was made to implement the instruction set by means of microcode. In brief, microcode uses software, typically encoded in a bank of read-only memory, to implement the lion's share of the CPU's instruction set. The use of microcode enabled IBM engineers to design a single processor that could be used in all the System/360 products, from small to large. The marketing potential was enormous. For example, one of the earliest System/360 computers was offered with a microcode adjustment that enabled the computer to emulate an earlier IBM machine, the 1401. However, the use of microcode came at a price: diminished processor efficiency. Amdahl knew that he could easily beat IBM's processor performance by creating processors hard-wired with the System/360's instruction set. Amdahl Corporation's processors, accordingly, did not use IBM's microcode architecture; instead, the firm created less expensive and more powerful processors that gained economy and efficiency from hard-wiring the instruction set into the CPU. Employing an efficient, low-cost implementation of IBM's System/360 instruction set, Amdahl's first processors appeared in 1975; they undercut IBM's price-performance points yet they were fully compatible with IBM software, in which the firm's customers had made significant investments. The result was tremendous enthusiasm among Amdahl's potential customers who were quite ready to break with IBM -- even to the extent of paying IBM for components and services that weren't actually received -- if the result meant they had the processing power they needed. In 1976, Amdahl released the V/6 processor, which offered three times the performance of IBM's most powerful CPU. FUD Kicks into High Gear Faced with a threat to its underlying business model, IBM took its FUD campaign to an unprecedented level, one that involved public statements, a host of new product announcements and technological changes that seem to have been aimed squarely at Amdahl's upstart processors. In 1977, just as Amdahl Corporation seemed poised to take over a significant percentage of the processor market, IBM announced the 3033, a processor that -- IBM claimed -- would go head-to-head with the best Amdahl could offer. But IBM did not merely announce a new processor. The firm also announced revisions to the System/360 instruction set. In attempting to address the Amdahl factor, IBM scientists discovered they could improve processor efficiency by adding fourteen instructions to the System/360 instruction set. (This is quite an interesting "discovery," since it has been proven time and again since then that reducing the instruction set, not expanding it, is the best way to improve processor performance.) IBM executives and engineers vehemently denied that the microcode changes originated with Amdahl in mind, but the changes certainly had an anti-Amdahl effect. The planned changes meant that Amdahl's hard-wired processors would not continue to be compatible until Amdahl discovered the changes that IBM actually made and figured out a way to implement them. At the worst, Amdahl would have to go through the very expensive and time-consuming process of redesigning his processors. For its part, IBM made it abundantly clear to all concerned that the firm had no intention of disclosing the technical specifications of the fourteen new instructions. Amdahl would have to wait until the 3033 appeared, when he could legally obtain one of the processors and discover the nature of the new instructions through reverse engineering. From that point, it could be months or years before Amdahl would be able to release a new processor that would be compatible with the 3033. As if to pour salt in the wounds, IBM warned darkly, and publicly, that the firm felt quite free to implement additional microcode changes whenever doing so made sense for its customers. The 3033's preannouncement took the wind out of Amdahl's sails. Orders plummeted, and the few remaining customers demanded contractual guarantees that Amdahl's processors would remain compatible with IBM's. Most customers decided to sit tight until the 3033 hit the market, one year later. When the 3033 was released in 1978, the processor turned out to be inferior to Amdahl's V/6, but it did offer better performance than previous IBM processors, and it was an IBM processor. The pent-up demand for high-performance processors unleashed a deluge of orders, to the tune of $6 billion, and IBM was forced for the first time to develop a lottery program so that it could parcel out the scarce processors fairly. Although the new processor turned out to be technically inferior to Amdahl's products -- in fact, IBM's processors did not equal Amdahl's price/performance points until five years later -- Amdahl's sales declined sharply. By 1979, Amdahl was but a niche player in the mainframe industry, surviving only by means of a capital infusion from Fujitsu, Inc. Meanwhile IBM's System/370 mainframes had captured 97 percent of the market. Why the GPL Terrifies Microsoft My analysis of the 1970s IBM campaign against Amdahl suggests the following: FUD campaigns step up in virulence when the FUD-perpetrating firm sees a threat to its core business model. What's Microsoft's core business model, and how could the GPL, a mere licensing scheme, pose a meaningful threat to such a gigantic, powerful corporation? My take on Microsoft's business model is, in brief: * * Microsoft's core business model relies on an at-all-costs defense of its overwhelming market dominance in end-user operating systems, because this dominance is the lever by which the company hopes to achieve all of its myriad other ambitions, including its ambitions in the server market. * * To defend its overwhelming market dominance in end-user operating systems, Microsoft must discourage or prevent the formation of a critical-mass pool of non-Microsoft end-user applications. People don't switch to a different end-user operating system until there's a sufficiently large pool of applications from which to draw. * * To prevent pools of non-Microsoft applications from forming, Microsoft likes to appropriate what it calls "commodity protocols" (off-the-shelf, public protocols such as HTML, JavaScript, CSS and many more), and add proprietary extensions that prevent the formation of competing application pools. To grasp this model's implications firmly, consider Judge Jackson's findings in the Microsoft antitrust case. Jackson did not rule against Microsoft -- as so many people unfortunately think -- because Microsoft made a better browser, gave it away for free and trounced Netscape in the marketplace. Sure, Microsoft wants the browser platform, for all kinds of reasons. But what really terrified Microsoft executives, I believe, were the all-but-forgotten, pie-in-the-sky plans that Andreesen & Co. once made to use Netscape as the foundation for a new, network-savvy, non-Microsoft operating system and application pool. (I'll bet you didn't know this, but Netscape came up with what amounts to the .NET idea long before it ever occurred to those master innovators in Redmond.) Equally terrifying to Microsoft executives was Java, and for the same reason -- it could be used to create a non-Microsoft application pool. In both cases, noted Judge Jackson, Microsoft used "embrace and extend" not only to discourage a competitor but, more importantly, to prevent the formation of a competing application pool. Why the GPL Threatens Microsoft's Core Business Model Still with me? Here's why Microsoft is attacking the GPL: * * Microsoft can't play its "embrace and extend" game with GPL-licensed software because the company can't appropriate and modify the code. If Linux had been released under the BSD license, Microsoft would have probably already released a version of Linux, Linux++ or Linux# or L-Nux, with a variety of maddeningly incompatible oddities that taken together would make it even more difficult to develop applications for Linux. * * A GPL-licensed application pool is indeed forming around Linux, and Microsoft can't figure out how to attack it. You can't attack the companies, because -- as Eazel recently proved -- the software's still around, even if the company shuts down or gives up on the product. From the Microsoft perspective, GPL-licensed software is like those monsters from "The Night of the Living Dead": they just keep coming back at you. Doubtful? Read this: Mr. Gates made the following statement last week to a CNET News.com reporter: "The ecosystem where you have free software and commercial software -- and customers always get to decide which they use -- that's a very important and healthy ecosystem", Gates told the interviewer. But the GPL, Gates says, "breaks that cycle -- that is, it makes it impossible for a commercial company to use any of that work or build on any of that work. So what you saw with TCP/IP or Sendmail or the browser could never happen. We believe there should be free software and commercial software; there should be a rich ecosystem that works around that." If Mr. Gates can forgive me for putting words in his mouth, here's my translation: "There should be free software that we can appropriate and modify -- we just love BSD stuff -- as well as Microsoft software. That's very healthy (for us), because we can use this system and our embrace and extend tricks to keep competing application pools from forming. But we can't do that with GPL-licensed software. GPL-licensed software is not enriching for Microsoft; it scares the living daylights out of us, in fact." In the coming weeks, you're likely to see Microsoft pressure to force the U.S. government to disallow the use of the GPL as a license for software created with public funds. If my analysis is correct, the decision should go the other way -- the government should require anyone developing software with government funds to release the software under the GPL. It's the only way to ensure there's a meaningful public commons of freely available software that can't be manipulated for predatory purposes. Bryan Pfaffenberger is Associate Professor of Technology, Culture and Communication at the University of Virginia, in Charlottesville, VA. Copyright 2001 Specialized Systems Consultants, Inc. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 08:30:37 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Joy Chatterjee) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 14:00:37 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [Reader-list] Re: [LIG] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <01080612485801.00795@krishna> References: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010806134757.009fc060@mail.sarai.net> "Where as in case of GNU/Linux anyone can add the Indian Language layer depending on the needs." Its all theory but in reality MS Office has a hindi version but any Linux software do not have any hindi version, Quark Express is also working on a hindi version but Linux doesn't even have any publishing software like QuarkExpress (and also web designing software), forget about Indian versions. It is more over frustrating to see that there is no alternative of server end bitstream technology for easy viewing of indian web pages in Linux. But truth is IE has! So I don't know how Linux people claim that Linux has more scope in Indian language, where as proprietary models are already working on it !!! Joy At 12:48 PM 8/6/01 +0530, Prakash Advani wrote: >Dear Raju, > >This is execellent if everyone can send out this document to their respective >state goverments. I hope modifications to the documents are allowed and >encouraged GPL ? ;-) > >I would also recommend you add something about localisation issues. In case >of Proprietory operating systems localisation is decided by the company only >if they see $$$$ coming in not in the interest of the people. Where as in >case of GNU/Linux anyone can add the Indian Language layer depending on the >needs. In fact all the localisation efforts so far have been started with >Goverments funds (CDAC/NCST). By putting their efforts GNU/Linux they funds >would be better utilised. > >Regards >Prakash > >On Sunday 05 August 2001 12:23, Raju Mathur wrote: > > Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State government > > which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I am making it as > > general-purpose as possible so that more people are willing to sign > > it: this is not a time for family squabbles. I'd appreciate any > > additions/enhancements which can be made to this letter. URL's > > highlighting the points discussed would also be a great idea. Not > > being an activist, I cannot suggest the proper methods for getting > > this letter signed and circulated to the right authorities. > > >_______________________________________________ >Reader-list mailing list >Reader-list@sarai.net >http://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 02:43:40 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajagopal C.V) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:13:40 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Raju Mathur wrote: : We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom proponents : in India are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans : to base your complete e-governance infrastructure on a single foreign : company's products. The history of Microsoft has shown that it has : very little regard for serving any objectives except its own, which : does not augur well for the future of in particular : and our country in general. : : We request you to kindly consider the following points before making : this relationship permanent: : : 3. Internal security : : Microsoft is a company owned by American citizens, having its base of : operations in the USA and subject to US laws. A clear effect of this : was evidenced in 1999 when it was discovered that some of the security : and cryptography functions built into Microsoft's operating systems : were subject to be used by the US National Security Agency (NSA) : without explicit permission from either Microsoft or the user of the : software. : : This is one lone ``feature'' of Microsoft software which came to light : due to the vigilance of a concerned individual. However it is quite : possible (indeed, likely) that there are other ways in which Microsoft : products are designed and constructed to permit illegal access by US : security agencies. As concerned Indians, we would wish to be secure : in the knowledge that the software handling our critical information : about Government and individuals will not permit foreign Governments : to spy upon, or, even worse, arbitrarily modify it without the consent : or knowledge of our elected representatives and the Government : machine. The FSF-India should immediately respond to this challenge posed by the MS in placing the WB people in a software trap. Since the FSF India has its office in Trivandrum where a lot of Central Committee members of the Communist Party of India are also staying, the FSF office bears can meet these top party functionaries and explain the points raised in the Raju Mathur's letter to them. The party leaders, I hope, will definitely prevail upon the left government in West Bengal and persuade the latter to desist from its latest move. Most of the politicians are totally unaware of the threats a proprietary software can pose to the public. If need be the FSF-India can immediately convene a press conference to alert( or enlighten) the press on the points highlighted by Raju Mathur. -- Rajagopal CV ____________________________________________________________________ GPG - Fingerprint: 87CF B2EE BE47 A69E 97F4 F891 96C2 90D4 F568 438A GPG - public key http://www.river-valley.com/gpg/cvr3.gpg ____________________________________________________________________ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 04:40:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:10:56 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] MIT's Open Courseware Message-ID: MIT to make nearly all course materials available free on the World Wide Web Unprecedented step challenges 'privatization of knowledge' APRIL 4, 2001 CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- The Massachusetts Institute of Technology--in an unprecedented step in world-wide education--announced today it plans to make the materials for nearly all its courses freely available on the Internet over the next ten years. The website for the project--MIT OpenCourseWare--would include material such as lecture notes, course outlines, reading lists, and assignments for each course. Over the next decade, the project expects to provide materials for over 2,000 courses across MIT's entire curriculum--in architecture and planning, engineering, humanities, arts, social sciences, management, and science. MIT President Charles M. Vest said of the program: "MIT OpenCourseWare is a bold move that will change the way the Web is used in higher education. With the content posted for all to use, it will provide an extraordinary resource, free of charge, which others can adapt to their own needs. We see it as source material that will support education worldwide, including innovations in the process of teaching and learning itself." Professor Steven Lerman, chair of the MIT faculty, said that the project stemmed both from enthusiasm for the opportunities that the Internet affords for wide-spread sharing of educational ideas, and from concern over the growing "privatization of knowledge." He noted that many universities, including MIT, see the Internet as a means of delivering revenue-generating distance education. But, he said, "we also need to take advantage of the tremendous power of the Internet to build on the tradition at MIT and in American higher education of open dissemination of educational materials and innovations in teaching." The project would begin as a large-scale pilot program over the next two years, starting with the design of the software and services needed to support such a large endeavor, as well as protocols to monitor and assess its utilization by faculty and students at MIT and throughout the world. By the end of the two-year period, it is expected that materials for more than 500 courses would be available on the MIT OpenCourseWare (OCW) site. MIT sees a variety of benefits coming from the MIT OCW project: * Institutions around the world could make direct use of the MIT OCW materials as references and sources for curriculum development. These materials might be of particular value in developing countries that are trying to expand their higher education systems rapidly. * Individual learners could draw upon the materials for self-study or supplementary use. * The MIT OCW infrastructure could serve as a model for other institutions that choose to make similar content open and available. * Over time, if other universities adopt this model, a vast collection of educational resources will develop and facilitate widespread exchange of ideas about innovative ways to use those resources in teaching and learning. * MIT OCW will serve as a common repository of information and channel of intellectual activity that can stimulate educational innovation and cross-disciplinary educational ventures. The program will continue the tradition of MIT's leadership in educational innovation, as exemplified by the engineering science revolution in the 1960s. At that time, MIT engineering faculty radically revised their curricula and produced new textbooks that brought the tools of modern science, mathematics, and computing into the core of the engineering curriculum. As their students joined the engineering faculties of universities throughout the country, they took with them their own course notes from MIT, and spread the new approach to engineering education. In similar spirit, but with new technologies, MIT OCW will make it possible to quickly disseminate new knowledge and educational content in a wide range of fields. President Vest commented that the idea of OpenCourseWare is particularly appropriate for a research university such as MIT, where ideas and information move quickly from the laboratory into the educational program, even before they are published in textbooks. MIT believes that implementation of OCW will complement and stimulate innovation in ways that may not even be envisioned at this point. "We expect that MIT OCW will raise the tide of educational innovation within MIT and elsewhere," said MIT Provost Robert A. Brown. "By making up-to-date educational content widely available," he said, "OCW will focus faculty efforts on teaching and learning on their campuses. It also will facilitate a new style of national and global collaboration in education through the sharing of educational content and the potential of telecommunications for real-time interactions." The concept of MIT OpenCourseWare was born from deliberations of a study group chartered by MIT's Council on Educational Technology. The Council, a group of educational leaders from throughout MIT, asked the study group to consider ways to use Internet technology to enhance education within MIT as well as MIT's influence on education on a global scale. The group was composed of faculty and staff from MIT, and was assisted by consultants from Booz-Allen & Hamilton (BAH), who are helping with organizational aspects of the project. The Booz-Allen team was led by BAH Vice President Reginald Van Lee. Mr. Van Lee, an MIT alumnus, said "MIT continues its role as the preeminent, global leader in the development and dissemination of new ideas and knowledge. We are excited to have contributed to this innovative and important step in the advancement of higher education." CONTACT: Patti Richards MIT Lab for Computer Science Phone: 617-253-8923 prichards@lcs.mit.edu _________________________________________________________________ MIT OpenCourseWare - Fact Sheet 1. What is MIT OpenCourseWare? The idea behind MIT OpenCourseWare (MIT OCW) is to make MIT course materials that are used in the teaching of almost all undergraduate and graduate subjects available on the web, free of charge, to any user anywhere in the world. MIT OCW will radically alter technology-enhanced education at MIT, and will serve as a model for university dissemination of knowledge in the Internet age. Such a venture will continue the tradition at MIT and in American higher education of open dissemination of educational materials, philosophy, and modes of thought, and will help lead to fundamental changes in the way colleges and universities engage the web as a vehicle for education. MIT OpenCourseWare will provide the content of, but is not a substitute for, an MIT education. The most fundamental cornerstone of the learning process at MIT is the interaction between faculty and students in the classroom, and amongst students themselves on campus. 2. What course materials would be available on OpenCourseWare? MIT OCW will make available the core teaching materials that are used in MIT classes. Depending on the particular class or the style in which the course is taught, this could include material such as lecture notes, course outlines, reading lists, and assignments for each course. More technically sophisticated content will be encouraged. 3. In what format will the course materials be placed on the web? The MIT OCW website will be coherent in design but flexible enough to accommodate many different types of courses, lectures, seminars, etc. The design and searching capabilities will help users locate materials by discipline and subject area, type of materials, name of individual faculty or author, and type of instruction. 4. How does OpenCourseWare differ from other types of web-based education, including distance learning? Many individual faculty at MIT and other universities already use the web extensively to make standard course materials available to their students. Some colleges and universities now require a website for every class. But, to a large extent, these websites are designed for and access is provided only to the students of these institutions. MIT OCW is an unprecedented institutional effort of a much broader magnitude, as the goal is to provide the course materials free and open to the world. Nothing of this scale has ever been attempted before. MIT OCW is not a distance learning initiative. Distance learning involves the active exchange of information between faculty and students, with the goal of obtaining some form of a credential. Increasingly, distance learning is also limited to those willing and able to pay for materials or course delivery. MIT OCW is not meant to replace degree granting higher education. Rather, the goal is to provide the content that supports an education. 5. Who will use OpenCourseWare and what are the potential benefits? The materials on the OCW site will be open and freely available worldwide for non-commercial purposes such as research and education, providing an extraordinary resource, free of charge, which others can adapt to their own needs. Some of the anticipated benefits are: * Faculty at colleges and universities around the world can use the OCW materials to develop new curricula and specific courses. These materials might be of particular value in developing countries that are trying to expand their higher education systems rapidly. * Individual learners could draw upon the materials for self-study or supplementary use. * The OCW infrastructure could serve as a model for other institutions that choose to make similar content open and available. * Over time, if other universities adopt this model, a vast collection of educational resources would develop and could facilitate widespread exchange of ideas about innovative ways to use those resources in teaching and learning. * Within MIT, OCW would serve as a common repository of information and a channel of intellectual activity that would stimulate educational innovation and cross-disciplinary educational ventures. 6. Are faculty required to participate in MIT OCW? Participation of MIT faculty in MIT OCW will be voluntary, although judging by the number who already actively utilize the web as part of their teaching, we expect that within 10 years, over 2000 MIT courses will be available on the MIT OCW website. Resources will be available to provide teaching assistants and professional production support for developing and maintaining the MIT OCW website. MIT will commit to the continuous support of the MIT OCW educational environment. 7. Are there other experiments in educational technology at MIT? MIT is undertaking a number of ambitious projects to enhance and potentially transform the educational experience through the use of new technologies. These projects are stimulated and supported by MIT's Council on Educational Technology and by Project I-Campus, a collaboration between MIT and Microsoft Research. Listed below are examples of such projects: * TEAL: The TEAL Project will establish a technology enabled active learning environment for large enrollment physics courses, which will serve as a national model for such instruction. Building on the experience of other universities, TEAL will merge lectures, recitations, and hands-on laboratory experience into a technologically and collaboratively rich experience. Software and teaching materials developed in this effort will be made available nationally at little or no cost, in the hopes of motivating a national effort along these lines. * WebLab: MIT students can now test and probe fragile, microscopic electronic structures via a novel online lab that can be accessed from dorm rooms and other locations 24 hours a day. Although the lab's focus is the study of microelectronic devices, WebLab has the potential to revolutionize science and engineering education by providing online access to state-of-the-art labs. * ArchNet: The ArchNet project is based on the idea that educational technology should be employed to create and enhance learning communities. All community members will have individual workspaces in ArchNet which provide them with personalized entry points to the system, and which also allow them to represent themselves and their work to other members of the community. Learning community environments of this sort will be very widely used in professional education in the coming years. MIT is also engaged in several collaborative and distance learning projects around the world. In the future the technologies that are being developed to support these efforts will also be utilized to enhance OCW materials. Some of these projects include: * MIT's Design Studio of the Future (DSOF): The DSOF is an interdisciplinary effort between the School of Architecture and Planning and the School of Engineering that focuses on geographically distributed electronic design and work group collaboration. As a design project moves along, aspects of the work can be shared, discussed, changed, and implemented through electronic means. * MIT-Singapore Alliance: In November 1998, MIT joined in an alliance with the two leading research universities in Singapore--the National University of Singapore and Nanyang Technological University--to explore the application of information technology in the creation of a new global model for long-distance engineering education and collaborative research. * MIT's System Design and Management Program (SDM): MIT's first degree granting program offered through distance education, SDM provides students with expertise in both management sciences and engineering, specifically in the areas of system design and new product development. * Cambridge-MIT Institute: This is a new enterprise between MIT and Cambridge University in England that will develop educational and research programs designed to stimulate the development of new technologies, to encourage entrepreneurship, and to improve productivity and competitiveness. A key component will be an undergraduate student exchange program. 8. What intellectual property policies will govern OCW materials? The policies toward the intellectual property created for MIT OCW will be clear and consistent with other policies for scholarly material used in education. Faculty will retain ownership of most materials prepared for MIT OCW, following the MIT policy on textbook authorship. MIT will retain ownership only when significant use has been made of the Institute's resources. If student course work is placed on the MIT OCW site, then copyright in the work remains with the student. 9. What is the projected timetable for OpenCourseWare? If funding comes through as hoped for, we would begin a pilot program in the fall of 2001, with a goal of making over 500 courses available on the World Wide Web over the next 2 1/2 years. Over the next decade, the project expects to provide over 2000 courses across MIT's entire curriculum--in architecture and planning, engineering, humanities, arts, social sciences, management, and science. 10. How will OpenCourseWare be funded? We are currently seeking outside funding partners to help cover the start-up and annual costs of the project for the first decade of operation. We anticipate that development costs during the initial phase of the project will be between $7.5 million and $10 million per year. _________________________________________________________________ MIT OpenCourseWare - Faculty Views Paul Penfield, Jr. Dugald C. Jackson Professor of Electrical Engineering in the Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, and affiliated with MIT's Microsystems Technology Laboratories. Comment from Professor Penfield: Everybody knows that the way to make progress in science is by using the best results of others -- "standing on the shoulders of giants" is one way of expressing this idea. That's why we publish scientific results. OCW will let the same thing happen in education. I'm personally looking forward to having my ideas used and improved on by others. _________________________________________________________________ Jonathan A. King Professor of Molecular Biology Comment from Professor King: This initiative is particularly valuable for courses covering emerging new areas of knowledge, as well as intersecting disciplines. Having spent many years developing a course on protein folding that served the needs of biochemists, chemists, chemical engineers and computational biologists, I am delighted that this work will be made available to a far broader audience. _________________________________________________________________ Olivier J. Blanchard Class of 1941 Professor Deparment Head, Department of Economics Comment from Professor Blanchard: A clear case of a small effort, and large benefits. I very much hope that our collective lecture notes become the most popular net destination. _________________________________________________________________ Shigeru Miyagawa Professor of Linguistics and Kochi Prefecture-John Manjiro Professor of Japanese Language and Culture Comment from Professor Miyagawa: OCW reflects the idea that, as scholars and teachers, we wish to share freely the knowledge we generate through our research and teaching. While MIT may be better known for our research, with OCW, we wish to showcase the quality of our teaching. _________________________________________________________________ John Lienhard Professor of Mechanical Engineering Comment from Professor Lienhard: Why do I support OpenCourseWare? Last year, I posted my undergraduate heat transfer textbook on the web for no-charge distribution. It is a 700 page pdf file, fully hyperlinked, and also properly typeset. In the domestic book market, the cost for this book would be $85 for the hardback or $45 for the paperback. My aim, however, is to provide the knowledge to those who can't afford to buy the book. The book has been downloaded by users from around the globe. Those users include many professors and students at remote universities in the third world. But the book is also being downloaded by students at universities in the United States and engineers in domestic industry. So the reach of my ebook has been quite broad. I therefore have every reason to believe that MIT's OpenCourseWare Initiative will immediately gain such a worldwide reach, and that it will allow MIT to expand its influence to students, teachers, and technical professionals, domestically and, especially, in less-developed nations. _________________________________________________________________ Stephen C. Graves Abraham J. Siegel Professor of Management & Engineering Systems Co-director, Leaders for Manufacturing Program & System Design and Management Program Comment from Professor Graves: The OpenCourseWare initiative is a bold act of leadership by MIT to apply technology to foster a global learning community that conceivably will strengthen all components of our higher education system. =========================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:38:23 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:08:23 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] FAX Numbers of WB GOVT. Message-ID: <1055.192.168.0.4.997090703.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 at 10:15, Satish Babu wrote: > > > In the first place, I should thank Raju for coming out > with a > powerful letter. > > I believe that there should be a local group who can > take up > this issue and lobby the government. Are we aware of any > individual or groups in WB who can highlight the > dangers of > this tie-up? Can we operate through local NGOs? After > working > in NGOs for long, I think NGOs can be powerful allies > in this > struggle. > > This seems to be a viable method in the local level to > put pressure on the > WB government. > > I also think that FSF-India should be prepared, with > appropriate tools (at the very least, a dossier of > documents > that explain our position, and quoting examples of > governments > of other provinces and countries) to respond to such > situations at short notice. > > Exactly. > > Raju's letter is powerfully drafted. I wonder if such > a letter > should be sent by snail-mail or e-mail? Would clogging > up the > CM's mailbox brand us as cyber terrorists? > > Why not we have a web page for all those interested to > sign? We > shall keep the page for a period of one week or ten days > and > propagate the news to all the mailing lists inviting > people to sign the > document. > > After the specified period, we can submit a mass > memorandum to the WB > government. In the meantime, FSF Board can work out the > dossier of > documents. i posted this message two hours ago i donna what happened i am sending it again. Well we can Fax the letter signed by FSF india board Members to the higher officials immedialtely. Buddhadev Bhattacharya (Chief Minister): 0332215480 Mr Sitaram Yechuri in Delhi : 0113747483 conatacts on Linux-india site as coordinators Indranil Das Gupta :indradg@cal.vsnl.net.in Darshan Shah :darshan_shah@vsnl.com cheers S.Goswami ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:35:21 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:05:21 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] Korea Govt. Supports Linux Message-ID: Free Software in Korea: Part One -- The Microsoft Connection (Oct 4th, 06:05:46 ) By Randy Leganza, Special Korea Correspondent for Linux Today When Dwight Johnson of Linux Today asked in late July if I'd consider a doing an article on Linux in Korea, I had no idea the amount of time or the countless e-mails it would require. Even though there had been several recent stories in the Korean English press and the government's announced support for Linux in July, I grossly underestimated the "Linux in Korea" story. When the Korean government's Ministry of Information and Communication announced in late July that it would "provide government support for the development and proliferation of Linux," it was not only one of the first official endorsements by a national government of the free operating system but one of the largest defeats ever for Microsoft. To appreciate the Microsoft connection to the Korean government's embracing Linux requires relating events extending over two years. In the end, despite its best efforts, Microsoft Korea would not only fail to dominate the local word processor market it had targeted, it would suspend its "campus license" program and see its president suddenly resign. These days hardly a week goes by without Microsoft's local ventures being mentioned in the English language Korean dailies. But Microsoft's interest in Korea extends back at least 15 years with a partnership agreement in 1984 and a branch office opening in 1992. Over the years, Microsoft developed relationships with numerous Korean companies. Bill Gates has traveled to Korea several times. In 1994 Gates traveled to Korea to sign a source code licensing agreement with the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST). Then in June 1997 he traveled to Korea again to address the CIO Forum, a support group for Korea's CIOs organized by the Federation of Korean Information Industries. Microsoft's trouble with the Korean government first began to surface in October 1997 when the Korean Fair Trade Commission announced an investigation into Microsoft's business practices. This investigation mirrored that of the U.S. Department of Justice. (No resolution of this investigation has yet been seen in the local English language press.) While Korea was struggling in May 1998 to recover from its worst financial crisis in history, Steve Ballmer, then a Microsoft vice president, announced a $77 million software donation to Korean schools and institutions. Although Microsoft's gift was graciously accepted, some thought it mostly an attempt to get Korean students on the Microsoft gravy train. When queried at the time about making an investment comparable to those made by Hewlett-Packard and Intel, Ballmer reportedly said, "We think that an investment in knowledge is more important than any factory." Little did Korea know then what was up Ballmer's sleeve, nor did Ballmer then suspect that Microsoft would end up with egg on its face. At the time of Ballmer's announcement, the maker of the country's only indigenous word processor, Hangul and Computer Company (H & C), was nearly bankrupt because of the bootleg software market for its product, Hangul. Microsoft negotiated a bailout plan for the ailing company -- in exchange for a Microsoft investment, H & C announced it would cease development of the Hangul word processor and end support for it a year later. Only a month after Ballmer's announcement of the software gift, the deal was scheduled to be closed when, according to the plan, Bill Gates would fly in for a two day promotional tour. But as soon as it was announced, there was an immediate public outcry and the deal ran afoul of both the Korean populace and the Korean Fair Trade Commission. Suddenly Koreans saw Microsoft's offer for what it was -- an attempt to monopolize the local word processor market. They took it as an assault on their national pride, a sort of "cultural colonization". The Koreans had more than just their ire for Microsoft's business tactics on their side. The indigenous Hangul word processor could correctly display more than 11,000 combinations of the Korean language's phonetic characters, as contrasted with Microsoft Word's 2,500. And the Korean word processor could display western fonts as well. Bill Gates still flew in but left empty handed after a meeting with the Korean President. A grass roots fund raising campaign quickly began to revive H & C. The Korean Venture Business Association (KVBA) offered $7.3 million to save the company. Approximately two thirds of the investment would come from association members, and the remaining one third would come from contributions by Korean individuals. The company accepted the KVBA offer, wisely created a limited license version with a slashed price to encourage paying customers and called for the Korean government, itself a flagrant violator, to began a campaign against bootleg software. H & C survived and in September 1998 announced its plan to raise $7.3 million dollars in a public stock offering. Facing mounting opposition, but not to be out done, Microsoft continued with its aggressive drive to inundate Korean educational institutions with artificially cheap software. In August 1998, Microsoft released a Korean version of Windows 98 to an eager, but often disappointed, public and reported 27,000 copies sold within only the first four days, a figure comparable to Windows 95's sales. Although Microsoft had not been able to buy out its chief word processing Korean competitor, its marketing machine was undaunted. It vowed to improve the Korean Microsoft Word's ability to display the older Korean characters and began to hype its Korean Microsoft Word 2000 in January 1999. But Microsoft made a disastrous marketing miscalculation. While the schools and universities were getting bargain basement discounts to entice students onto the Microsoft gravy train, individual software buyers were still paying full price. In early 1999, local software resellers, squeezed mercilessly from both sides, denounced Microsoft's pricing strategy. The Korean retail marketplace is still mostly a mom and pop operation. These small chains and individual stores could not turn enough volume to warrant the large discounts that retail giants and OEMs obtain. In addition, these resellers were the target of a crackdown on bootleg software. They objected to Microsoft's alleged entrapment of bootleg resellers, a charge denied by Microsoft. The resellers went so far as to hold a rally to protest Microsoft's pricing policy. Then in mid May, the Korea Times published the results of a survey which reported that "87.2 percent said the Windows operating system is ``unsatisfactory'' but that they have no choice but to use it." The May 1999 resellers anti-Microsoft protest was accented when Hangul and Computer charged that Microsoft was "dumping," selling its wares at 10% of its market price. To this accusation, Microsoft responded (according to the Korea Herald), "We introduced the site license program, in which we sell our software package at cheap prices, to the Korean market to help spread the use of genuine software products among students." Microsoft also countered that H & C was guilty of its own accusations because they had slashed their price to less than $10 for their one year license version. The government said it would investigate. Microsoft finally relented and withdrew its "campus license" policy pending a final decision by the Korean government. Microsoft Korea had now suffered its second setback in its drive to dominate the Korean word processor market. Amidst all this negative attention, in June 1999, Microsoft released its Korean Microsoft Office 2000. As an answer to H & C's discounted one year license version of Hangul, Microsoft offered the Korean Microsoft Word 2000 with an annual subscription option of under $10. A Korea Herald article claimed it could now process 11,172 Korean syllables, 1.6 million old Korean characters and 27,000 Chinese characters. Meanwhile, the Korean government continued its crackdown on bootleg software. Even though government agencies were as guilty as everyone else, the crackdown on bootleg software was hurting Korea's schools far more than the government. Many schools were forced to suspend computer classes because they could not afford the software license fees. The Korean government was under pressure from all sides. Consumers and resellers complained that Microsoft's products were too expensive and that there was no alternative to Windows. The software industry wanted its license fees -- yet this unbudgeted expense was a monstrous burden on both small business and the educational system. Koreans wanted Hangul and Computer to survive -- yet they didn't want to appear anti-Microsoft and alienate another foreign business when their economy badly needed foreign investment. The logical alternative seemed to be software without burdensome license fees -- enter Linux! In July 1999, the very same day the Korean Ministry of Information and Communication announced it had formed a group to discuss support for Linux, the JoongAng Ilbo reported Microsoft Korea's President Kim Jae-min had abruptly resigned. Microsoft said the resignation was voluntary but some believed that he was held responsible for Microsoft Korea's failures over the past year. The government soon confirmed its support for Linux saying it would promote its use in public organizations. Ironically, hard on the heals of this announcement came the release of a Federation of Korean Industries' survey picking Microsoft as the number one business role model, followed by General Electric and Ford. Was it merely a coincidence that Microsoft Korea's president resigned at the same time the government announced its interest in Linux? No one is saying. Regardless of the government's motivation for supporting Linux, the support is there. Linux and Free Software in Korea is on the move. ----------------------------------- Free Software in Korea: Part Two -- The Linux Side (Conclusion) Oct 10, 1999, 07:15 UTC By Randy Leganza, Special Korea Correspondent for Linux Today Korean Government Support for Linux A most promising development for the free software movement in Korea is the government's Ministry of Information and Communication announcement in late July that it will "provide government support for the development and proliferation of Linux." The Korea Herald, among others, reported that the ministry "will establish a Linux consultative body composed of software experts from the government, academic and industry sectors to standardize Korean versions of Linux and develop a variety of programs based on the operating system." At the forefront of the Korean government's support for Linux is the Electronics and Telecommunications Research Institute (ETRI). According to Kim Hae-jin (family names are first in Korean), who is heading the ETRI Linux project, ETRI's plan is to "provide a highly scalable, highly available, single system server image cluster [technology]... adaptable from Internet [servers] to [the] mission critical enterprise." A non-profit organization called the "Linux Council" has been established. Four committees within the Council have been designated: 1. Standardization -- standardize Linux's Hangul terminology and documentation. 2. R & D -- promote research in and development of Linux software. 3. Supply and Support -- support Linux in end-user markets, schools and government offices. 4. Education and Training -- promote Linux education and training. Kim adds that they will also sponsor more Linux forums like a recent one held in July 1999, which was attended by Linux International's John "maddog" Hall. A Long History of Free Software Use Korea has been involved with the free software movement for over twelve years. An obscure reference on the GNU web site reveals that in April of 1987, Richard Stallman visited the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST) in Taejon. More recently, in May of this year, Tim Ney of the Free Software Foundation visited Korea with a Massachusetts Software Delegation and "met with a number of young software start-up companies..." According to Tim, "many of the companies [he] saw were predominantly writing software for the Windows platform, yet responded quite positively when [he] spoke about free software and opportunities with GNU/Linux." Free Software Projects Ongoing free software projects in Korea include: * Hanterm 3.1 from the KAIST, a Korean language (Hangul) xterm * OpenHWP, reported to be an almost defunct Korean free word-processor * And a team of at least four package maintainers contribute to the Korean Debian Project. The Korean Debian project has members from both the academic and business communities. Park Chu-yeon, current leader of the project, is working on the Korean Debian Bible with other project members. They maintain nearly 50 Korean Debian packages. Linux is not the only project associated with the free software movement in Korea. FreeBSD also has a following. Choi Jun-ho is the leader of both the Korea FreeBSD Users Group and the GNU Free Translation Project. Choi reports that he first used GNU/Linux in 1993, then moved to FreeBSD in 1995. Korean Companies That Market Linux Products WebDataBank Choi is developing a unique Linux distribution, qLinux, at his company, WebDataBank. According to Choi Jun-ho, qLinux will be bootable from a large ext2 file image on an existing Windows FAT partition via a loop-back device. He says qLinux will also be able to "utilize" the Windows Registry to configure X Windows, network cards, etc. WebDataBank is in the Linux Internet server hosting and groupware development business. They will soon release a Korean version of TurboLinux 4.0. MIZI Research Another Korean company, MIZI Research markets MiziOS, its own Linux version and HWPX-R4, a Linux/Unix Hangul word processor that is a close cousin to Hangul and Computers (H & C) Hangul Windows version (Hangul means the "Korean written language"). MIZI's head, Seo Young-jin, was the UNIX HWPX-R4 team leader at H & C before H & C decided to drop the UNIX version in 1997 and focus on their Windows version. Seo then licensed HWPX-R4's source code and started MIZI. Microsoft's subsequent failed attempt to shut the H & C Hangul word processor out of the Korean market was a pivotal event in the rise of free software in Korea. See Free Software in Korea: Part One -- The Microsoft Connection. HWPX-R4 is included on the MiziOS CDs, as either a demo version or an official bundle. MIZI also supports the Free Software movement with: * ManIM, which enables Hangul fonts in Netscape on X * a Hangul font server * some document viewers that will soon fall under the GPL * four Korean TrueType fonts under the BSD license MIZI's decision whether to publish under the GPL or a commercial license is level-of-effort based. According to Seo Young-jin, "Some software is attractive and fun and others [requires] endless maintenance. The latter [we license] commercial." Under commercial licensing, MIZI is currently working on an architectural CAD application that will be available in Hangul and English. Seo said that he hoped to "shareware" the English version, explaining that part of the code was licensed from another company and MIZI needed to recover the cost. Zion Systems Zion Systems develops Accel, a Korean distribution based on Red Hat. In developing Accel, Zion Systems uses the latest kernel version and libraries, builds their packages optimized for Pentiums and is working on a Korean GUI installation package. In partnership with Samsung, Zion Systems markets a line of high availability Alpha and Xeon SMP servers that can support clustering and further plans to market a sub $1,000 Linux PC in October. Currently Zion is working on GPLing their audio drivers and high availability management software. Zion is also setting up an "after service" center for its product line. 3R Soft 3R Soft produces MailStudio, a Linux/Unix Web-based e-mail server. MailStudio's user interface runs inside the Web browser, like Netscape and Yahoo's mail servers. MailStudio is compatible with Sendmail, SMTP, POP, and qPopper. In their upcoming 3.0 version, 3R Soft plans to offer IMAP, LDAP, and spell checking support. While 3R Soft does not produce any GPL software, they are compatible with Red Hat, Caldera, TurboLinux and Apache. Other Korean Linux Companies At least three other Korean companies produce seperate Korean versions of Linux: * Linux Korea markets the Power Linux distribution and the Netspirit 2000 and 3000 Linux-based servers. * Korea Linux sells the Alzaa Korean version of Red Hat. * ClassData offers the Class 6.0 Enterprise Linux distribution, which has an interesting glass bottle logo and the catchy slogan, "stop paying your Bills." In addition, Informix Korea has a series of Korean pages devoted to Linux, including links to downloads. Linux Use Growing Rapidly According to Denis Havlik: "I have been witnessing an enormous growth of "registered Linux users" in Korea for quite some time. (Take a look at "the Linux Counter", under "Denis Havlik's report"...) The growth is not so dramatic any more, but still rather fast: 156% annually." "Registered users" probably account for less than 1% of the Linux user base(*) -- currently there are more than 3,000 registered users. Therefore, my estimate is "more than 300,000 Linux users in South Korea" today. Greater than 500,000 would not surprise me, either." The Fight for the Linux Trademark Sadly, all the positive news about Linux in Korea is not without its controversy. The last week of August, a fight broke out over the Linux trademark, when a lawyer for Kwon Yong-tae, who holds a Korean trademark for 'Linux', demanded that the Kyobo Books bookstore stop selling books with Linux in the title. Three days later, the incident became a hot topic on Korea's popular Linux bulletin board and it made the English Linux news sites the following weekend. Allegedly, the trademark was applied for in 1995 and granted in 1997. Korean publishers, business and other interested parties are still working to resolve the issue. For those interested, Lee Kyong-ho is maintaining an event time line at the bottom of his Web page on the problem, with a link to an English version of a petition. --------- Randy lives in Taegu, Korea and is on his third, most fun and least stressful career. He's the QA/Test guy on a small team supporting a large Solaris WAN integration project, with a few Linux boxes scattered about. He gets to play with computers all day and intentionally break them -- then complain about it, and usually see things get fixed. When he can, he likes to fly airplanes, lift weights, hunt and fish. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:50:38 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 15:20:38 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> Raju Mathur wrote: > > We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom proponents > in India are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans I suggest avoiding the term Open Source, and use only the other two. Because, you see, it sends out wrong impressions outside. If a press release based on this letter comes out, FSF-India will be termed as a group Open Source proponents. Of course, the rest of the document is brilliantly drafted. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 08:05:47 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:35:47 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt (FaX Numbers of WB officials)Urgent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3081.192.168.0.4.997085147.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 at 10:15, Satish Babu wrote: > > > In the first place, I should thank Raju for coming out with a > powerful letter. > > I believe that there should be a local group who can take up > this issue and lobby the government. Are we aware of any > individual or groups in WB who can highlight the dangers of > this tie-up? Can we operate through local NGOs? After working > in NGOs for long, I think NGOs can be powerful allies in this > struggle. > > This seems to be a viable method in the local level to put pressure on the > WB government. > > I also think that FSF-India should be prepared, with > appropriate tools (at the very least, a dossier of documents > that explain our position, and quoting examples of governments > of other provinces and countries) to respond to such > situations at short notice. > > Exactly. > > Raju's letter is powerfully drafted. I wonder if such a letter > should be sent by snail-mail or e-mail? Would clogging up the > CM's mailbox brand us as cyber terrorists? > > Why not we have a web page for all those interested to sign? We > shall keep the page for a period of one week or ten days and > propagate the news to all the mailing lists inviting people to sign the > document. > > After the specified period, we can submit a mass memorandum to the WB > government. In the meantime, FSF Board can work out the dossier of > documents. Well we can Fax the letter signed by FSF india board Members to the higher officials immedialtely. Buddhadev Bhattacharya (Chief Minister): 0332215480 Mr Sitaram Yechuri in Delhi : 0113747483 conatacts on Linux-india site as coordinators Indranil Das Gupta :indradg@cal.vsnl.net.in Darshan Shah :darshan_shah@vsnl.com cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:32:50 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:02:50 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] Linux in Education Message-ID: Troubleshooters.Com Presents Troubleshooting Professional Magazine Volume 3, Issue 4, April 1999 The Education Revolution Copyright (C) 1999 by Steve Litt. _________________________________________________________________ Editors Desk What a difference a decade makes. In April 1989 the 386 chip was three years old, and was just getting to a price point affordable for individual computer users. 286 technology had been around for seven years, and you could still buy a new 286 computer. And if you used a PC compatible, you had DOS. Sure, it was version 5, but it was almost identical to the DOS 3.1 you'd used in 1984. PC Programmers used teen-age C or the baby on the block, five year old Dbase III. You could take a year or two to learn a computer language, and spend a year or two writing the program. You had to be a genius to access the internet, and even then you still had to be at a major university or the military. And unless you were trying to reproduce Robert Morris' Internet Worm virus that had appeared the year before, why would you even want to get on the internet? And so we continued on our leisurely path, oblivious to the wildly accelerating technological changes the 90's would bring. Now technologies come and go in two years. Time to market has shrunk to months or weeks. The successful companies and technologists have shrunk their learning times to days or weeks. College and trade school don't cut it. Even those week long training courses can't do the job. New learning methods are needed. Luckily, free software, the Internet, and the documentation of the Rapid Learning process allow us to keep up. This issue of Troubleshooting Professional Magazine is devoted to the Education Revolution. We've even given the articles political names. After all, learning is the most vital component of our careers, and ultimately our corporations and our nations. So kick back and relax as you read this issue. And remember, if you're a Troubleshooter, this is your magazine. Enjoy! Rapid Learning: A Key to Universal Education If you hang out with leading edge technologists long enough, you see they all use similar learning techniques. They use the 'net, trade mags and their acquaintences to learn the terminology and its definitions. Armed with that, they achieve a theoretical understanding. They then do incremental/differential learning, often using free software (free as in speech) to verify their understanding and learn more. All of this is done within the context of their work, not separate from it. They've mastered the technology long before their co-workers have gotten clearance to take the course. They make the big bucks. I'm trying very hard to document this process, which I've dubbed Rapid Learning. I'm ten percent done with my new book, "Rapid Learning: Secret Weapon of the Successful Technologist". It looks like it will weigh in at 42 chapters and a little over 200 pages. I hope to have it available for sale in about a month, assuming more pressing projects don't interfere. Using Rapid Learning, a technologist can learn new technologies quicker, cheaper, and easier than their counterparts taking training, trade school, or college. Rapid Learning has been used for decades, but the advent of the Internet as a research tool and free software for setting up a kitchen table lab have supercharged Rapid Learning's advantages. The de-facto class restrictions on technical education are crumbling. Steve Litt is the author of the upcoming book "Rapid Learning: Secret Weapon of the Successful Technologist". Power to the People Some cynical days I wonder if this whole thing is just class warfare. "Buffy, we simply cannot allow these lower classes to program. They work so cheap the profession will be ruined". "Precisely, Skip. We must make sure the lower classes have no contact with programming. Expensive compilers, expensive computers, and just in case some rif-raf gets his hands on one, we'll require a $100,000.00 college education, and make sure a computer training lab costs six figures. Remember your first computer lab? The minicomputer cost nearly a hundred thousand, with each terminal $500. Or, if it was later, maybe an $8000.00 PC server with a $4000.00 NOS (Netware) and each workstation costing $2000.00. But that wasn't the big thing. The big thing was the software. Compilers were probably $100.00 to $500.00 per seat. And the big-iron compilers like Cobol -- if you have to ask you can't afford it. And remember the cost of the DBMS? That was sure to keep the small entrapeneur out of the game. Any way you looked at it, setting up a computer lab would set you back over $60,000.00 -- probably much more. If there are such a Buffy and Skip, they're certainly tearing their hair out today. Anyone with a spare two hundred square feet can set up a respectable computer lab for less than a good used car -- maybe a lot less. Let's start with buying everything new: Item Nos. Unit Price Total Cost Server OS 1 $49.00 $50.00 Desktop OS 1 $49.00 $50.00 Server 1 $2000.00 $2000.00 Client PCs 15 $600.00 $9000.00 8 port Hubs 2 $200.00 $400.00 Network Cabling n/a home made $100.00 Server Software: DNS, Sendmail, Proxy Server, FTP Server, Web Server, Print Server, .... 0.0 0.0 Educational Software: (GNU) C compiler 15 0.0 0.0 (GNU) C++ compiler 15 0.0 0.0 Perl Interpreter 15 0.0 0.0 Python Interpreter 15 0.0 0.0 Tcl/TK Interpreter 15 0.0 0.0 Java 15 0.0 0.0 (PostgreSQL) DBMS 15 0.0 0.0 (DBI) Middleware 15 0.0 0.0 (PHP) Web App RAD 15 0.0 0.0 Web Authoring Tool 15 0.0 0.0 (GIMP) Graphics SW 15 0.0 0.0 Web Browser 15 0.0 0.0 Text Editors 15 0.0 0.0 (Pine) Email Read 15 0.0 0.0 So that's it. For $11,600.00 anybody can set up a 15 workstation computer lab. But wait. There's more. If 15 people decide to set up the lab for themselves, and each brings an old, Linux GUI capable computer (low grade Pentium with 32Meg of ram, 1 gig disk), and one person contributes a server (low grade Pentium, 32 meg of ram, 6.4 Gig drive), the cost goes down to $600.00. That's not each, mind you. That's divided among the fifteen. That's right, $40.00 each. What do they get for the money? Here are the classes that can be offered: Programming 101: Algorithms (Python) Programming 102: OOP (Python) Intro to C Intermediate C Advanced C OS Programming in C Driver Writing in C Linux Internals in C TCP/IP Programming in C Basic Network Configuration Intermediate Network Configuration Network Design and Architecture Network Troubleshooting DNS Configuration Web Host Configuration Email Server Configuration Advanced Webmastering Intro to C++ Intermediate C++ Advanced C++ Web Design (Netscape Composer, GIMP) Advanced Web Graphics (GIMP) Intro to Web Programming (Perl) Web Forms Programming (Perl) Database Web Programming (Perl, PHP, PostgreSQL) Programming for Electronic Commerce (Perl, PHP, PostgreSQL) So just in case it isn't clear, fifteen people without money for college can get together, pony up a PC each and less than $50.00 each, $2.00 each per month for an internet connection (which they can share simultaneously real-time via Linux IP-masquerading). For that tiny investment they'll gain theoretical and hands-on mastery of C, C++, Web authoring, Web applications, Web database applications, Electronic Commerce, network administration, network troubleshooting, network architecture, webmastering. Who will teach the classes? Using Rapid Learning techniques, they can teach themselves. Then pass on the information in the form of Rapid Teaching tutorials. Those original 15 can charge ten percent of university prices, and recoup their investment in a year. They can expand and teach thousands of folks unable to afford a college education. Buffy and Skip, like it or not you have some serious competition. Viva La Revolucion Nowhere is the education revolution stronger than in Mexico. Their Scholar Net program is installing a nationwide network of computer labs using free software including Linux and Gnome. Over the next few years, they will be installing 140,000 computer labs (not computers -- labs) at a rate of 20-35,000 per year. These students will have all the advantages enumerated in the previous article. If this sounds unbelievable, I've reprinted the words of the Scholar Net project head, Arturo Espinosa Aldama. From the Horse's Mouth ============================ >From arturo@estadistica.unam.mx Thu Oct 29 21:46:11 1998 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:54:25 -0600 (CST) From: Arturo Espinosa Aldama To: gnome-list@gnome.org, gnome-hackers@gnome.org Subject: Mexico's Educative System Goes for GNU/Linux + GNOME Greetings, beloved GNOME users and developers. I work as the project leader of the "Scholar Net", a program that aims to bring computers and the net to every elementary and mid-level school in Mexico. We expect to install from 20 to 35 thousand labs per year to a total of 140,000 centers in the next five years. Due to matters of cost, reliability and configurability, we plan to use GNU/Linux to replace the proprietary server options and, now thanks to GNOME, the proprietary desktop application options. We will develop GNOME to a point where we can get a useful and friendly enough desktop for the elementary and high school student. There are some aspects of GNOME, such as uniformity, Spanish translation, bug fixing and application development which we will address to achieve this. At an average of 20 users per machine, and being all of them school children and teachers, GNU/Linux will become, at the long term, a major influence in Mexico. In the short term, GNOME will get an additional impulse from us and those who will contribute following our guidelines, and GNU/Linux will prove to be a real-world option for the end user. For further information and details on the Scholar Net and, specially for GNOME developers, on how to contribute to GNOME for us to arrive to deployment stage, please contact Arturo Espinosa . Arturo Espinosa Aldama Project Leader Academic Services Coordination National Autonomous University of Mexico The text above may be copied in any way provided that it stays with this paragraph and unmodified. ============================= Note: The original source URL of this document is contained in the URL's section of this magazine. My Fellow Americans My fellow Americans, we're in another race every bit as vital as the space race of the 1960's. Once again it's time to get moving. The race is no longer to the moon, but instead to technological dominance. Our competitor is no longer the Soviet Union, but instead every nation on earth. The threat is no longer nuclear obliteration, but technological and economic obliteration. Our neighbors to the south are attacking this challenge head on. Mexico is installing 140,000 computer labs using the best (but not the most expensive) technology available. Soon they will field a fleet of millions of superiorly trained technologists. Mexico has taken a page from America's pioneering spirit. Free thinking, they went with the right choice, not the politically expediant one. They worked to get results. They stood up for their children. Contrast this with America's response. We hesitate over lab installation because it's too "expensive". Expensive because we pay per-seat licenses. Expensive because Windows desktops requires more expensive hardware. Expensive because NT Server is *fabulously* expensive. Expensive because Windows requires constant attention to keep running. Our children languish while Microsoft stockholders get rich. My fellow Americans, the choice is ours. We can change course to the better plan instituted by Mexico, continuing our leadership position well into the next century. Or we can remain in our present comfort zone, making Microsoft stockholders rich while our children receive inferior educations and our nation's technological leadership fades. I ask you to follow Mexico's lead. Stand up for our children. Stand up for our nation. Use free software in our schools. Fellow Americans, my critics will tell you there will always be work for Americans who want to work. They are absolutely correct. The question before us today is whether that work will be charting the worlds technological course, rather than serving at resorts, hotels, gas stations and restaraunts, hoping we'll be tipped in Pesos. Richard Stallman, Architect of the Revolution In 1984 Richard Stallman wrote the GNU Manifesto, which advocated free software, specifically a free UNIX workalike. In the Manifesto, Stallman prophetically described the process of getting this to happen, including ideas in licensing (must pass on source and all rights to the receiver, etc). In 1991 he copyrighted the GNU General Public License (otherwise known as GPL). That license provided a framework allowing a developer to guarantee that his work would never be co-opted or subverted by an unscrupulous corporation. Software authors began to license their software using GPL. It worked. Linus Torvalds and his crew wrote the Linux kernal, combined it with many of the already developed GNU utilities, to come up with the GNU/Linux operating system, which was absolutely free to anyone. Other software followed. Others started licensing software under non-GPL licenses that nevertheless guaranteed source availability, ability to modify, and passing on of rights. Others had licenses that didn't do all that, but managed to make the product free and standard. And now you can get, absolutely free of charge, the GNU/Linux OS, Netscape browser and authoring tool, GIMP graphic software, Apache web server, sendmail email server, GNU C and C++ compilers, Python, Perl and Tcl interpreters, Java, and several editors. Or, if you don't want to download them, you can purchase them for as little as $1.99 plus shipping. Much of the Internet runs off these free tools, especially Apache. And the web can replace any 30 technical textbooks, and it's always up to date. This has cut the cost of setting up a computer lab or computer school by a factor of 10 or more. Once only the upper middle and upper classes could get an excellent computer education. Now almost anyone can do it. Richard Stallman: hero or rabble rouser? I guess the answer depends on whether you're a normal working person, or the president of an expensive and elite university. Linux Log: The Redmond Tea Party (Linux Log is now a regular column in Troubleshooting Professional Magazine. Each month we'll explore a facet of Linux as it relates to that month's theme). Few grudge anyone the right to make an honest living. I haven't heard one person question the cost of (Borland) Turbo Pascal or Turbo C. Few objected to the price of the DOS or Windows operating systems. There were some problems with Mac pricing, but those wanting a cheaper product simply bought one. Trouble is, sooner or later certain commercial outfits get greedy. I don't know whether they forgot history and then repeated it, or whether they felt the lessons learned didn't apply. But these commercial outfits (and it wasn't just Microsoft) gouged us blind. The insane prices and even crazier licensing provisions erected an entry barrier few could penetrate. So we went elsewhere. To Linux, to free software in general. And we found it to be better. So we snuck in the corporate back door with superior free software systems, and got free software on the corporate agenda. It's humorous that now the commercial biggies find themselves subject the the same type of FUD they used to dish out. "I'm not buying the Microsoft product -- a superior free software product is expected any time now". The Mexican government is building a nationwide computer lab network using Linux and Gnome. It hasn't happened yet in the US, but it will. Throngs march on Redmond to dump not tea but Windows, not into Boston Harbor but into the Microsoft campus. I predict that Windows 2000 will fail miserably, as the masses shift to the technically superior, and probably by that time more user friendly, Linux. The other gouge and grab software outfits will get theirs soon after. Let's hope Caldera, Slackware, SuSe, Pacific HiTech (TurboLinux), Red Hat, Star, Corel and Applix learn from their predecessors' mistakes. URLs Mentioned in this Issue * http://www.troubleshooters.com: Steve Litt's website, Troubleshooters.Com. * http://www.troubleshooters.com/umenu: The website for the Universal Menu System Open Source Project * http://www.troubleshooters.com/umenu/download/index.htm: The download site for the (free, Open Source) Universal Menu System (this version works only on Linux, but upcoming versions will work with Windows and with UNIX). * http://luthien.nuclecu.unam.mx/~arturo/scholar/: Mexico's Scholar Net program, an installation of 140,000 computer labs throughout Mexico. * http://www.gnu.org/people/rms.html: Richard Stallman's home page. * http://www.calderasystems.com: Caldera's OpenLinux home page. * http://www.suse.com: SuSe Linux distro home page. * http://www.Slackware.com: Official home of the Slackware Linux project. * http://www.turbolinux.com: Website of Pacific HiTech, makers of the TurboLinux distro. * http://www.redhat.com: Home of Red Hat Software, makers of the Red Hat Linux distro. * http://linux.corel.com/: Corel's Linux product website. * http://www.applix.com/appware/linux/index.htm: Applixware for Linux. * http://www.microsoft.com: The guys who make Windows NT, a very nice server OS that would be as good as Linux if it was faster and more reliable. ========================================================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:37:07 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:07:07 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] Open Source in China Message-ID: A new IT website, www.oso.com.cn, was launched to proliferate the adoption of Open-Source in China Oct 19th, 2000 08:24 UTC OSO offers industry outlooks, lectures, source codes, program downloads and forums to members at all levels of computer literacy. Many forums and language-specific, especially PHP, websites regarding Open-Source pop up during the past year in China. A new and comprehensive website that focuses on Open-Source, Open Source Online (www.oso.com.cn), was launched recently in China to initiate, cultivate and provide a marketplace for Open-Source. Open Source Online (OSO), http://www.oso.com.cn, was launched to serve and promote Open-Source IT in China. OSO offers industry outlooks, lectures, source codes, program downloads and forums to members at all levels of computer literacy. In November, OSO will provide a free on-line computing environment and disk space for its member to learn all about Internet computing using Open-Source tools and own a subdomain name for real-time usage. OSO will eventually provide a commercial platform in China that leverages on the merits of Open-Source. For details, please visit: http://www.oso.com.cn From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 07:18:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Prakash Advani) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:48:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [LIG] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <01080612485801.00795@krishna> Dear Raju, This is execellent if everyone can send out this document to their respective state goverments. I hope modifications to the documents are allowed and encouraged GPL ? ;-) I would also recommend you add something about localisation issues. In case of Proprietory operating systems localisation is decided by the company only if they see $$$$ coming in not in the interest of the people. Where as in case of GNU/Linux anyone can add the Indian Language layer depending on the needs. In fact all the localisation efforts so far have been started with Goverments funds (CDAC/NCST). By putting their efforts GNU/Linux they funds would be better utilised. Regards Prakash On Sunday 05 August 2001 12:23, Raju Mathur wrote: > Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State government > which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I am making it as > general-purpose as possible so that more people are willing to sign > it: this is not a time for family squabbles. I'd appreciate any > additions/enhancements which can be made to this letter. URL's > highlighting the points discussed would also be a great idea. Not > being an activist, I cannot suggest the proper methods for getting > this letter signed and circulated to the right authorities. > From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:34:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:04:52 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] French Senators Ask Government to Support Open Source Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- French senators propose making open source compulsory Posted 24/10/99 2:47pm by John Lettice French senators Pierre Laffitte and Rene Tragout are proposing that national and local government and administrative systems should only use open source software. Arguing in favour of their proposed law number 495, they say ease of communication and free access by citizens to information can only be achieved if the administration is not dependent on the goodwill of the publishers of the software. "Open systems whose evolution can be guaranteed via the free availability of source code are needed," they say. The two senators have set up a discussion forum for the proposed law at the French Senate Web site, and put forward the text, and their own explanation of why the move is needed. They see the Internet as becoming the primary way for government and citizens to communicate, and propose a period of transition prior to a switchover to wholly electronic communications. According to Article 3 of law 495, "State administration, local government and administrative services... can only use software free of [IP] rights and whose source code is available. A decree will fix the terms of transition from the current situation." In addition, the senators see the switch to open source by the state as providing the engine to drive a far broader movement. Private companies dealing with the state, in bidding for contracts, for example, will tend to switch to open source to make it easier to do so electronically, while those who supply the state with computer systems will have to redouble their open source efforts. Impressively, neither Windows nor Linux is mentioned in their proposed law and its supporting documentation, but it's pretty clear what the effect will be if it passes. Time for another Bill Gates visit to Lionel Jospin and Jacques Chirac, we fear. We're not sure what law 495's chances are, but perhaps a French reader can help us out with some further information. And while they're about it, could they explain to us why it's only number 495? Whenever we've been in France we've got the impression that there are a hell of a lot more than just 494 laws. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:36:24 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:06:24 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] German Govt. Says Use Open Source Software Message-ID: After the UK, French, Korean, and Chinese governments, it is now the turn of the German government which has recommended the use of Open Source Software (OSS) for use in their offices. I hope you find this interesting reading. -- Raj ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ German Governmental Agency Says: Use Open Source An official team of the German Ministry of the Interior has released a statement which examines the possible use of Open Source software in the German administration. The statement concludes: "Linux and FreeBSD and accompanying Free or commercial software provide a stable, cheap, low-on-resources, safe and sufficiently supported environment even for professional offices." =============== Some Readers Comments ================ Of course they should use open source instead of commercial software since it's saving tax payer money and is ultimately more reliable (which means more efficient employees). I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you just forgot to put the smileys at the right places, but this undoubtedly there are some of us here that actually think this statement has any truth in it. The fact that one uses open or closed source software doesn't mean anything in itself when it comes to costs. True, with open source there is generally no fee that needs to be paid, but to see this as a major cost saver is incorrect. The costs in any IT-related project within organisations is generally not associated with software nor hardware, but with the amount of man-hours needed to complete the project. Espescially when specialist knowledge needs to be hired from third parties the costs are rising like the amount of Guinness in an Irishman on Saint Patricks day. After the roll-out of a project the cost is in the ease of use for the user and in the cost of keeping everything up and running. At the moment the cost of running open source based software on server(-like) configurations is probably tied with that of various closed source alternatives. It all depends on what you want, who you have working for you and what kind of other systems you use. The cost of open source on user-systems is probably still higher then that of various closed source alternatives. Most notably MS-Windows based products, but for some uses the Mac comes to mind. Even if one accounts for BSOD's and related stress issues, loss of working hours etc. A properly configured system is still a cheaper option then Open Source because the money for an organisation is in the applications and in the added value that a worker gets from those apps. Yup, it all boils down to apps again. Though i must say that in certain areas this gap could be bridged quite easily. Especially there where users are doing data entry, where all data goes to a large database (eg: call-centers), most screens are designed espescially for that database. With that in mind, new systems in this area could be as easily build to work with an open as a closed source environment. ---- It means that the German Federal offices can use Open Source products. So, if you work for the German Federal government, you can go ahead and use Open Source software now. ---- The German Goverment "Gets It" -- the use of open source helps in keeping certain cost down. Allows you to add extentions to the software you use. Also allows you to audit the software you are using at the source so there are no question about certain things. ---- Governments are composed of many, many, individuals; they perform many, many jobs. Some people in the German government have the job of recommending the ways in which technology, specifically computers, should be used within federal offices. These ones are recommending Open Source. You should have realised they're saying a lot more than: 'Use Linux/BSD 'cuz they're cheap!' As a matter of fact, they present a very detailed accounting of the advantages of OSS, including the key arguments of better security (through transparency) and freedom from control by any one corporation (never named, but in my opinion implied), as well as a detailed plan of how Linux and friends could be installed at all levels of the government. I don't know if this document carries any weight with the decision-makers, but it is a ringing endorsement of free software of all stripes. ---- Strange. I'm a German and I'm fascinated by the progress our government has made since it was elected in 1998. But now, I'll leave this great country because of monetary reasons (hi USA!). I'll certainly miss the open and liberal minds of our politicians. The old government was crying for more control of the Internet while the new one gives money to Open Source cryptology projects and even recommends the use of encrypted communication channels. ---- When I was a govt contractor, we were using the GNU tools and perl on several Department of Defense projects because the were the most portable around. Of course these were Unix based projects. Is anyone out there actively lobbying the government to officially endorse OSS solutions rather than proprietary software? It seems to me as a taxpayer that I would like to see the vast number of government projects out there actively evaluate Linux as well as Solaris and NT as platforms. Not only would they be getting a high quality, low cost platform, the code that the government contractors develop could be fed back into the community. The govt develops a considerable amount of software and while much of it is specific to its needs, there are other areas such as infrastructure where having an OSS solution makes sense. If they used OSS software as the basis of building their systems, it would prevent a lot of the reinventing of the wheel and proprietary lock-in that occurs now. ---- Alot of us are trying, believe me. Most of us have OSS snuck in the background but contributing none the less... The more "public" uses are seen at NASA with their Beowulf cluster and at NIST. There's a FOSE conference coming up next month and one of the seminar tracks includes a session on Linux. However I wish that more on OSS was scheduled to be discussed at this. The timing of FOSE is really good considering all that's going on right now, but seems no one in the D.C./MD/VA area appeared to push it for this year's conference... ---- Using open-source products is good government. In fact, I think it helps to mollify one of the real problems of most modern states. usually, when the government spends money on a project, only one group in the population benefits. Although this is often a large group, there are almost always some people who are left out. But with OSS, when the government works on a special program designed for one group, the whole community benefits, because the whole community gets free source. And more, since in the course of the project it's highly likely that the government-employed programmers will contribute patches, code, ideas, etc. to other projects. So, not only is OSS good for government, it also constitutes good government. =================================================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 11:36:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:06:30 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> Message-ID: <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org> Good idea. In fact, let's all create one version each of the letter (GPL enthusiasts, BSD License enthusiasts, Open Source enthusiasts, Electronic Freedom enthusiasts, etc); that way we'll be able to achieve much more. Even if we don't, it doesn't matter since, after all, what you /might/ get called by a misinformed press is more important than what you do, isn't it? Ever hear the term ``knee-jerk reaction''? *Disgusted* -- Raju >>>>> "RK" == Ramakrishnan M writes: RK> Raju Mathur wrote: >> We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom >> proponents in India are deeply distressed to learn about your >> Government's plans RK> I suggest avoiding the term Open Source, and use only the RK> other two. Because, you see, it sends out wrong impressions RK> outside. If a press release based on this letter comes out, RK> FSF-India will be termed as a group Open Source proponents. RK> Of course, the rest of the document is brilliantly drafted. RK> -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 RK> Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: RK> http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ RK> _______________________________________________ RK> http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 11:37:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:07:00 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] Argentina Govt. Discussing Free Software Law Message-ID: Free Software Law for Argentina There's presently (last week of April, 2001) a law being discussed at the Congress in Argentina, that would make mandatory the use of and migration to Free Software when possible within the government units. That law was originally proposed by a Congressmen, but he contacted people from the Free Software Community in Argentina (non-profit organizations, LUGs, etc.), and we have already suggested many changes that are making into the law. This is a translation of the law being discussed. It's already in discussion at the Argentina's congress, and moving on Note: all uses of the "free" word are for Spanish "libre", i.e, free as in free speech, not free beer. Policy for Free Software use for the Federal State Article 1: The National Public Administration, Decentralized Organizations and corporations where the State is a majoritary shareholder will only use free programs (software) for their IT systems and equipments. Article 2: "free program (software)", will be understood as software with a license of use that guarantees the user, without an extra fee, the following rights: 1. Non-restricted use of the program for any purpose 2. Exhaustive inspection of the internal program operation. 3. Use of the internal working, and of arbitrary segments of the program, to adaptate them to user needs 4. Production and distribution of copies of the program 5. Modification of the program, and free distribution of the modifications and the resulting new program, under these same conditions. Article 3: The source program of any free program must be the primary resource used by the programmer for modifying and inspecting it. Therefore, no program categorized as free can contain any restriction difficulting its access, or intermediate stages as output from a non-free pre-processor or compiler. Article 4: Licenses for free programs used by the National Public Administration, Decentralized Organizations, and corporations where the State is a majoritary shareholder, will have, in all cases, to allow explicitly modification and derived works, as well as non-restricted distribution of these works with the same license as the original program. Article 5: The Executive Power will set in a term of 180 days, the conditions, timelines, and ways to implement the transition from present systems to free programs as defined in Articles 1 to 4; and will move future licitations and contracting of computer programs (software) in that direction. Artice 6: From the date established by the Executive Power on, Public National Organizations mentioned in article 1 of this law, will not be allowed to use programs that store data in non-public format, or with licenses which: 1. Imply any form of discrimination to people or groups. 2. Don't fulfill of the preceding Article 2. 3. Are specific or exclusive for only one product. Article 7: Once finished the transition term, with a duration regulated by the National Executive Power as expressed in Article 5, there will be exclusively contracting and use of free computer programs. Article 8: The Public State Universities, the Provincial and the City Governments, and the Autonomous Government of the city of Buenos Aires are invited to adhere to this initiative. Article 9: Communicate this to the National Executive Power. ====================== Some Comments ======================= The financial savings are not the biggest benefit. I realize that there will be a huge price to pay in training and development, that could be similar to the cost of propietary licenses. But there are strong arguments for government use fo free software, like "National Security" (because the ability to guarantee no backdoors), "Technological independence" (remember that this is a 3rd world country, and propietary software involves depending on a foreign corporation), and "Control of information" (Citizens may be harmed when their public records are stored ("kidnapped") into propietary file formats). ---- This law is very well written - with good intent behind it. This law basically states that if the government or government owned institutions are to use software, it must be examinable by the people of that country. What a wonderful idea - one that most Americans are familiar with. We are allowed to observe almost all areas of government, comment upon it, and change it as needed. I'm glad that at least some governments realize that this should apply to software as well. ---- Laws that require the use of Free Software are about as inspiring as laws that require the use of Windows 2000. IMHO, this doesn't seem to be an appropriate use of government. Choose the best software for the task, and may the best software win in the marketplace. ---- This law as written is beautiful. It's a simple, to the point, expression of the will of the legislature that the government convert to open software wherever possible, as rapidly as is convenient. In my opinion, any changes are more likely to break it than improve it. I'd be inclined to leave it just as it is for now. A rule of thumb for any system design - government law or software - is to see what would happen if a deliberate attempt to misconstrue or circumvent its intent were made by the operator or outside parties. (The only operational difference between malice and mistake is that malice usually exercises the bugs and crashes the system a little sooner - so you look for system flaws as if you were looking for a way someone could deliberately break things, without implying that malice is actually present even if the system does crash later.) The only potential hole I see is that the timetable is left open. So if both a division head and the chief executive were opposed, or if the chief executive didn't push subordinates who dragged their feet, the timetable could slip out indefinitely. But it's appropriate to leave the timetable to the executive, rather than to try to micro-manage from the legislature. Execution is the executive's job. And I'd bet the chief executive is also in favor of this, or at least willing to go along with the will of the legislature. So I'd leave it as it is for now and revisit it in a few years to see how the conversion is coming. If you're really concerned that something might fall through the cracks you might have the executive branch report every few years on the progress of the conversion, including a list of what hasn't been converted and why. After five or ten years if there's anything unconverted that the legislature hasn't been convinced SHOULDN'T be converted, then it might want to make changes to the law to give them a push. And I'd leave military systems up to the executive branch. Which I expect will insist on having source code for everything they commission, and on reverse-engineering any turnkey weapons systems they got from their allies. ---- In order to maintain an open and free government, the people must be able to understand all governmental processes (including limitations with their computers). It is not safe for any government to run software which it does not know how it operates... being able to review the source code and compile it yourself ensures security. Also, since the government pays for all software with tax money, why shouldn't the people have access to that software? If I pay for the government to use software on its computers... I want access to that software I paid for. Society has it embedded into its mind that "Corporations are always good, they always have the best interests of the market in mind" when that is not true. They instead have the best interests of their wallet in mind. Software companies do take bribes to modify software to suit certain people's needs... I would not doubt that the NSA has never paid MS for certain code changes to Windows that make spying easier. ---- As a law that would force only the government to use Free Software, which would give the government and the people full knowledge of the workings of important government software, I think it is very reasonable. ---- Calling this a "law" is technically accurate, but misleading. To the layperson, the word "law" implies a regulation that affects private citizens, which this isn't. Really, it's just an internal government policy decision, stating that the government will use free software whenever possible (assuming it gets passed, of course). It doesn't regulate what individuals and private companies can do. ---- Think about it: most of the countries in the world produce their own weapons: they don't want to depend on others. The same starts to come true about software, as it's importance in running the government/military is understood. ====================================================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 07:19:26 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:49:26 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: References: <01080610152800.11300@athena> Message-ID: <15214.17662.822934.812755@mail.linux-delhi.org> Hi CVR, Once the letter has been re- and re-re-drafted, I'd be glad to put it up on my host (kandalaya.org) for signatories along with fsf.org.in. Please don't take offence, but many people in the Open Source movement are not keen on GNU and Free Software. We need the support of these people too if we want to have one potent movement rather than multiple, small, ineffective ones. Keeping this in mind, it's my opinion that it'd be a good idea to display the letter on a ``license-neutral'' site in addition to the FSF India site. Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "CVR" == Radhakrishnan CV writes: CVR> [snip] CVR> Why not we have a web page for all those interested to sign? CVR> We shall keep the page for a period of one week or ten days CVR> and propagate the news to all the mailing lists inviting CVR> people to sign the document. CVR> After the specified period, we can submit a mass memorandum CVR> to the WB government. In the meantime, FSF Board can work out CVR> the dossier of documents. CVR> Any thoughts? CVR> -- Radhakrishnan -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:28:29 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:58:29 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] US PITAC Recos Message-ID: PITAC: U.S. Government Should Foster Development of Open Source/Free Software By Tony Stanco, Sep 14, 2000, 20 :44 UTC Earlier this week the President's Information Technology Advisory Committee (PITAC) issued its "Recommendations of the Panel on Open Source Software For High End Computing." This is a very important event for Free/Open Source software, because it signals that the U.S. Federal government is finally ready to invest heavily in free software. This, along with the interest shown by the governments of China, Japan, Brazil and France to move away from proprietary software for national security reasons, goes a long way to legitimize free/open software development worldwide (as if that was an issue any more). Still, the thought that the U.S. Federal government is considering pumping potentially billions of dollars into free software has to count for something. The cover letter to the report says that PITAC "believes the open source development model represents a viable strategy for producing high quality software." A promising start. The committee was charged with: * 1. Charting a vision of how the Federal government can support the developing Open Source software activities for high-end computing; * 2. Defining a policy framework for accomplishing these goals; * 3. Identifying policy, legal, and administrative barriers to the widespread adoption of open source software efforts; and * 4. Identifying potential roles for public institutions in Open Source software economic models. The report makes three recommendations: 1. The Federal government should aggressively (!) encourage the development of Open Source software for high end computing; 2. A "level playing field" must be created within the government procurement process to facilitate Open Source development; and 3. An analysis of Open Source licensing agreements is needed, with an ultimate goal of agreeing upon a single common licensing agreement for Open Source software development. So, there are some promising things that may come out of the report. But there are also some troubling things that are apparent if you read carefully between the lines. 1. How does a report to the President on Free/Open software development not even mention Richard Stallman? The man who almost single-handedly brought the world to this point. Without RMS standing up to the ridicule and laughter from all quarters for 16 years as he preached an alternative to proprietary software development, would the world even know now there was an alternative to proprietary? That the Presidential committee doesn't include RMS as a member puts the whole report under a dark cloud, in my opinion. Also, when you look at who is actually on the committee, you quickly see all the usual suspects, so that uneasy feeling doesn't go away, but is actually reinforced. When I spoke to RMS about his noninvolvement, he said he wasn't even aware that the report was in the works. 2. This raises another question: who knew in the community that this committee was working on the report? When working on a report about the Internet-inspired democracy/meritocracy of free software development, does it take that much imagination to use the same Internet-inspired democracy/meritocracy to prepare the report? Where's the community involvement in this report? After the initial euphoria of what this report may have promised, one quickly fears that this group simply misses the whole point of free software, even if they now realize that something important is going on. Obviously, old biases are hard to replace. This report comes from people who have the same, old, corporate, command and control hierarchical mindset. 3. Did anyone notice recommendation No. 3. the ultimate goal of which is "agreeing upon a single common licensing agreement"? While there are some interesting things in this report, there are also some dark clouds on the horizon. It is hard to say at this point whether this is going to be ultimately good or bad for free software. But it does show more community involvement is warranted to address where powerful people are trying to take us. See: http://www.ccic.gov/ac/pitac_ltr_sep11.html (given below) ===================================================================== President's Information Technology Advisory Committee September 11, 2000 Co-Chairs: Raj Reddy Irving Wladawsky-Berger Members: Eric A. Benhamou Vinton Cerf Ching-chih Chen David Cooper Steven D. Dorfman David Dorman Robert Ewald Sherrilynne S. Fuller Hector Garcia-Molina Susan L. Graham James N. Gray W. Daniel Hillis Robert E. Kahn Ken Kennedy John P. Miller David C. Nagel Edward H. Shortliffe Larry Smarr Joe F. Thompson Leslie Vadasz Andrew J. Viterbi Steven J. Wallach The Honorable William J. Clinton President of the United States The White House Washington, DC 20500 Dear Mr. President: The President's Information Technology Advisory Committee (PITAC) is very pleased to submit the second report in the series of follow-ups to our February 1999 report to the President, Information Technology Research: Investing in Our Future. Open Source Software for High End Computing highlights our recommendations for a research strategy that uses open source software development as the new model for answering America's high end computing software needs. In our February 1999 report, we noted with concern a growing national vulnerability based on the inadequacies of the current system to build reliable and secure software while the diversity and sophistication of the software base becomes increasingly pervasive in society. The PITAC believes the open source development model represents a viable strategy for producing high quality software through a mixture of public, private, and academic partnerships. This open source approach permits new software to be openly shared, possibly under certain conditions determined by a licensing agreement, and allows users to modify, study, or augment the software's functionality, and then redistribute the modified software under similar licensing restrictions. By its very nature, this approach offers government the additional promise of leveraging its software research investments with expertise in academia and the private sector. In the attached report, we focus exclusively on software development for high end computing (sometimes referred to as high-performance computing or supercomputing) because of its critical importance to U. S. national security and science and engineering research. Our 1999 analysis revealed that while there were a number of high end applications ripe for exploration, the field was in need of substantial innovations in application-development software, algorithms, programming methods, component technologies, and architecture. The report makes three recommendations. First, the Federal government should aggressively encourage the development of open source software for high end computing. Adopting this recommendation will require a technical assessment of the software needs for high end computing as well as an innovative management plan and funding model for supporting this development. Second, a "level playing field" must be created within the government procurement process to facilitate open source development. Third, an analysis of open source licensing agreements is needed, with an ultimate goal of agreeing upon a single common licensing agreement for open source software applications. Exploring alternative software development models for high end applications will allow the Nation to make significant progress towards addressing the growing national need to ensure software development practices and techniques which will result in reliable and secure systems. We are encouraged to see some high end computing and reliable software development research topics among the priorities in your proposed FY2001 budget for Information Technology Research and Development. However, we urge you to implement the strategy outlined in our report in order to strengthen the effectiveness of federal investments and policies in this arena. Thank you for the continued opportunity to advise you on these and other important issues for America's information technology-driven economy. Sincerely, Raj Reddy, Ph.D. PITAC, Co-Chair Irving Wladawsky-Berger, Ph.D. PITAC, Co-Chair ========================================================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:24:11 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:54:11 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] Why Govt. Should Promote Open Source Software Message-ID: The enclosed feature article is US Government specific. Surely, this can be adpated for India too. I was planning to write something similar, but dropped that when I came across this article. The last section of the article is missing (I could not download it presently). -- Raj ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This document is located at: http://www.netaction.org/opensrc/oss-report.txt Date last modified: 11 Feb 99 <> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Case for Government Promotion of Open Source Software A NetAction White Paper By Mitch Stoltz mitch@netaction.org Abstract An alternative method of software development, called open source software, creates robust, secure software through a process of widespread peer review. This paper explains the open source concept and attempts to show how government can use open source as a vehicle for promoting economic development and as a policy tool which could assist the Justice Department in its antitrust action against Microsoft. Contents: * Introduction * What is Open Source? * History of the Idea * Private and Public Advantages * Recommendations for Government Action * Conclusions * End Notes NetAction Phone: (415) 775-8674 601 Van Ness Ave., #631 Fax: (415) 673-3813 San Francisco, CA 94102 Web: http://www.netaction.org This paper is also available as a regular HTML document, a text file, an RTF file, a postscript file, a PDF file, and a MS Word 5.1 file. About the Author: Mitch Stoltz is currently finishing his senior year as a Computer Science and Public Policy Analysis major at Pomona College, outside of Los Angeles. His interests are computer networking, encryption, consumer privacy issues and equitable access to technology. His next project is a senior thesis on Open Source as a social movement. Copyright 1999 by NetAction/The Tides Center. All rights reserved. Material may be reposted or reproduced for non-commercial use provided NetAction is cited as the source. NetAction is a project of The Tides Center, a 501 (c)(3) non-profit organization. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Case for Government Promotion of Open Source Software Introduction Computers and the Internet have changed the way we work, study, and interact, yet there are many things about computers and software which we find dissatisfying. Proprietary software is increasingly expensive and memory-hungry. Bugs, security flaws, and other errors appear in even the most trusted programs. Microsoft's monopoly control of the operating system market stifles innovation. Many computer systems are not equipped to handle the upcoming turn of the century, creating a multi billion-dollar problem and dire predictions of a global electronics breakdown. An alternative method of software development exists, called open source software, which offers a very low cost solution to all of these problems. Open source is not a technology, but rather a different way of thinking about and organizing the software development process. Whereas traditional proprietary software development (which created most of the programs we use daily) adheres to the principle of strict protection of intellectual property found in the publishing industry, open source software (OSS) development is more of a collaborative process that has evolved along with the Internet. Open source software is growing its market share in a few key areas because of its natural strengths of reliability, security, and low cost. However, open source has advantages on a broader level as well: it eliminates economic waste caused by the duplication of work, and it presents a challenge to harmful monopoly power in the software industry, such as the anticompetitive practices which are under scrutiny now in the Justice Department's antitrust case against Microsoft. It also provides a cost-effective solution to the Year 2000 problem. For these reasons, increased use of open source software serves more than private economic gain -- it serves a public good as well. This paper will describe open source software, including a brief history of the idea, discuss its inherent strengths as both a private and a public good, explain why the government should be involved in promoting open source software development, and offer some recommendations for government action. What is Open Source? The most basic definition of open source software is software for which the source code is distributed along with the executable program, and which includes a license allowing anyone to modify and redistribute the software. Source code is the actual instructions which programmers write to create a piece of software, the "recipe" for the program. Once a program has been "compiled" into a form which can be installed and run on a computer, its source code is irretrievable. It is practically impossible to make changes to a program without having a copy of its source code. If a program's license includes the right to modify the program, this right is meaningless unless the source code is readily available. Actual licenses for OSS vary between different companies and development projects, but they have certain characteristics in common. The Open Source Initiative, a group of developers who disseminate information on the benefits of open source,[1] has posted on its web site a "meta-definition" of basic conditions which they feel should be included in an OSS license.[2] These include: * Allowing free redistribution of the software without royalties or other fees to the author. * Requiring that source code be distributed with the software or otherwise made available for no more than the cost of distribution. * Allowing anyone to modify the software or derive other software from it, and to redistribute the modified software under the same license terms. Any software which is distributed under a license which conforms to these requirements is open source software, according to the Open Source Initiative.[3] Proprietary software, which makes up the majority of the software we use on a daily basis, is distributed under much different conditions. A proprietary license prohibits modification, copying, or redistribution without the company's permission. It ensures that only one entity -- the company or individual that created the software -- has the right to make changes or even see the software's internal structure. In addition to its legal definition, another distinction between OSS and proprietary software is the way in which it is developed. Proprietary software is created by a relatively small group of developers within a particular company, often working under deadline pressure. They complete a program and then try to remove as many flaws (software errors or "bugs," and security "holes") as possible before the software goes to market. Any flaws which remain after shipping time become the consumer¹s problem, leading to lost work and frustration. Purchasers of proprietary software become involuntary testers. What's more, if users find a flaw, even if they know how to solve it, the software license prohibits them from making the fix themselves. Open source software, in contrast, is often developed by loosely organized communities of programming enthusiasts, collaborating via the Internet. Anyone with an interest and some requisite degree of ability is welcome to contribute sections of the program or to look for errors in existing sections. Because no one is excluded from the development process, potentially hundreds of people can contribute to a project, providing a diverse group of talents and techniques. If a particular company has a financial interest in the success of an open-source project (through strengthening its brand name, increasing demand for related products, or through sales of technical support), they will often hire programmers to work on the project. Other contributors (and for some projects, all contributors) may be individuals working in their spare time, out of interest rather than for compensation. Open source enthusiast Eric Raymond describes a successful OSS development project in his essay "The Cathedral and the Bazaar.[4]" Good OSS projects, he says, reuse as much code from other projects as possible to avoid duplicated work. They rely heavily on feedback and suggestions from users of the software, operating under the principle of "release early, release often, and listen to your customers."[5] This intense peer review process, shared among a potentially large group of developers and testers, finds and eliminates errors in software faster than any proprietary effort could. In Raymond's words, "Given a large enough beta-tester and co-developer base, almost every problem will be characterized quickly and the fix obvious to someone. Or, less formally, 'Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow.'"[6] Open source software is closely connected to open communications standards (or protocols), such as the Internet standards, which allow many types of computer equipment to communicate over networks. Both are developed through widespread informal collaboration. Any communications protocols used in open source software are inherently open, since an implementation of the protocol is revealed in the open source code. The existence of an open source implementation of a communications protocol ensures the openness of the protocol. Conversely, proprietary software allows for proprietary protocols, since details of the protocol can be hidden in the secret source code. The Apache project, makers of an open source web server which serves over half of all World Wide Web pages, explains this relationship well: To the extent that the protocols of the World Wide Web remain "unowned" by a single company, the Web will remain a level playing field for companies large and small. Thus, "ownership" of the protocol must be prevented, and the existence of a robust reference implementation of the protocol [in the form of working software], available absolutely for free to all companies, is a tremendously good thing.[7] Though anyone can contribute to them, open source projects often have some form of central authority which collects and combines the changes which others make. These authorities, whether an individual, a corporation, or a nonprofit, work to maintain compatibility and conformance to standards in balance with improvements from the community of developers. This keeps open source software compatible with the Internet and other important standards, and prevents "fracturing," the divergence of several concurrent versions of the same software to the point of incompatibility. An example of this sort of informal coordination can be seen in the Linux operating system: though a large group of developers contribute to new versions, Linus Torvalds, Linux's original creator, has final say over what code is included. Similarly, the Apache web server is overseen by the Apache Group, a self-selected group of programmers. Open source software is economically viable and presents numerous opportunities for profit. This seems counterintuitive, since the availability of source code allows the user to obtain a piece of software at no cost. But many companies have already realized substantial profit from their OSS efforts. Red Hat Software has become a fast-growing and profitable company selling boxed versions of the Linux operating system, complete with manuals, technical support via telephone, and a simple installer program. Red Hat customers, some 7.5 million by the company's estimate, chose to pay about $50 for the added value which the company provides to Linux users -- even though the company itself gives Linux away for free. As the company says: "Most of the software is available -- at no charge -- to anyone with the time and inclination to download it. But not everyone has that much time...A company's distribution has its own feature set, and some are geared towards specific types of computer systems. Like many other such groups, our approach is to bundle all the necessary bits and pieces into a cohesive distribution."[8] Both individuals and businesses are willing to pay for this convenience. Additionally, the software itself retains some economic value even if it is given away for free. The Open Source Initiative web site explains this way: "If having a program written is a net economic gain for a customer over not having it written, a programmer will get paid whether or not the program is going to be free after it's done."[9] An eloquent testimonial to the effectiveness of OSS comes improbably from one of its opponents, the Microsoft Corporation. An internal Microsoft memo now known as the "Halloween Document," which was leaked to Eric Raymond and subsequently posted on the Internet, says the following about OSS: "The ability of the OSS process to collect and harness the collective IQ of thousands of individuals across the Internet is simply amazing. More importantly, OSS evangelization scales with the size of the Internet much faster than our own evangelization efforts appear to scale."[10] History of the Idea Although the term "open source software" was coined rather recently, the idea has existed for many years. In the 1960's, when computers were cumbersome and esoteric, all software was essentially "open source." As all computer users at the time were effectively also software developers, whose work required them to make changes to the software they used on a regular basis, the computers made by manufacturers such as IBM were generally shipped with source code included. In the close-knit community of computer scientists, programs and ideas were shared freely. Beginning in the 1970's, when many types of businesses (and later, individuals) began using computers for more diverse tasks, software became proprietary in the interest of profit. With only a small fraction of computer users actually writing software, it became profitable to limit source code access and modification rights to within a single company. The one area where OSS has thrived in the period of proprietary software development is in the creation of the Internet. The programs on which the Internet depends are for the most part open source software. The Apache web server, the Sendmail mail-forwarding program, and BIND, which manages Internet addresses, are all open source, and each dominates its market. Many developers who had done work in the earlier period of software development felt that a sense of collaboration and cooperation had been lost, and that software quality would suffer as a result. One of these was Richard Stallman, who in 1983 founded the Free Software Foundation (FSF)[11] to promote collaborative, open software development. Today the FSF remains a key player in the open source initiative. Another major event in the re-emergence of OSS occurred in 1991 when Linus Torvalds, a college student in Finland, created an open source version of the Unix operating system. This operating system, called Linux, is now a mature product, claiming over 7.5% of the 3.5 million installed server operating systems (compared to Microsoft Windows NT's 36%).[12] It is among the top five operating systems in use worldwide. Many people consider Linux to be faster and more error-free than Windows NT or other proprietary operating systems. A large group of developers from almost every continent, as well as several commercial companies,[13] maintain and update Linux. Development of Linux occurs very fast. During periods of intense development work, new versions are sometimes released as often as once a day. When new features are added, they are scrutinized by the development community, which finds and corrects all manner of errors. New versions of Linux often evolve to shipping quality in a matter of weeks, rather than the months or even years of testing which are common in proprietary software development. In March of 1998, Netscape Communications, makers of the most popular Internet browser, shocked the software community by announcing that they would release the source code to their browser and begin to accept changes and improvements from the Internet community. In essence, the Netscape browser was changed from proprietary to open source. This decision arguably made Netscape the first well-known, mass marketable piece of software to embrace the open source model. Though Netscape will soon cease to exist as an independent company, having been acquired by America Online, the browser code it released belongs permanently to the open source community (through the independent entity mozilla.org) and can never be returned to its proprietary state. Private and Public Advantages Open source software has several distinct advantages over proprietary software. As described above, the widespread peer review process involved in open source development creates software which is more error-free and resource-efficient than proprietary software. In addition, OSS is a must for security-critical applications. As computer security expert Bruce Schneier points out, true security is never achieved by attempting to conceal any security defects that a program may have, but rather by allowing anyone interested to seek out these flaws and eliminate them.[14] Open source software makes this possible. Many government agencies will not use a piece of software in a security-critical application unless the agency itself can examine the source code for flaws; in the case of proprietary software, this often means difficult and costly negotiations allowing the agency access to the source code. If open source software is available to fill such a need, source code is available at no extra cost to the government, and in many cases the software is already more secure. These advantages to the individual customer which are provided by open source software obviously benefit government users as well. Low cost, reliability, security, and the ability to modify software to suit specific needs are all important priorities to government purchasing authorities. However, these benefits do not make a case for specific government action to promote OSS. In Raymond's words, "The open-source culture will triumph not because cooperation is morally right or software "hoarding" is morally wrong, ...but simply because the closed-source world cannot win an evolutionary arms race with open-source communities that can put orders of magnitude more skilled time into a problem."[15] However, the widespread use of OSS would benefit the U.S. economy as a whole in several ways, and it is for these reasons that government policy which facilitates and promotes open source software development would serve a public good, and is therefore a justifiable and beneficial government endeavor. The first public benefit of OSS is that it eliminates the economic loss which results from duplicated work. The vast majority of all code (a standard estimate is 75%)[16] written for a specific task by a single company, government agency, or military branch, and is never used for any other purpose. Many problems in computer engineering show up in multiple fields and applications. If a private company creating software for scientific research, for example, must spend its cash and programmer time to create a specific tool from scratch when a military research facility has already written software which performs the same function, economic waste occurs which hurts U.S. productivity as a whole. If source code developed for a specific government application is made publicly available, corporations can spend their resources to improve this software, add value, and find new markets for it, rather than recreating it from scratch. The reverse is true as well: government and military agencies could use source code developed by corporations at no cost, allowing huge savings in government procurement and R&D expenditures. Another area which the government has already identified as a public interest is working to solve the Year 2000 (Y2K) problem. This refers to the errors which may occur when many computer systems' clocks reach January 1, 2000. Since many important systems store years by their last two digits only, these systems will read 2000 as 1900. This could cause many critical computer systems at banks, hospitals, and in government, to stop working, with the potential for catastrophic failure. President Clinton and Congress have taken an interest in working to prevent such failures, including the passage of legislation which allocates funds to the solution of the problem and encourages private companies to begin working towards a solution as well. If more computer systems utilized open source software, a solution to the Y2K problem would be much simpler and less expensive. This is because the Y2K problem is uniquely suited to solution by an open source effort -- the problem is extremely widespread but each individual solution is simple. For many programs, solving the problem requires a programmer to find each reference to a date and each calculation performed on dates, and expand it to allow for four-digit year references. The difficulty is finding all references to the date in very large programs. Doing so requires a massively cooperative effort to see that no reference is overlooked. If software is proprietary, the number of people with access to source code, and therefore the number of people available to find and correct all date references, is severely limited. With open source software, on the other hand, an almost unlimited group of programmers can share this work, allowing for a much more effective solution. In addition, access to source code allows a government agency or company to verify for itself that Y2K problems have been solved, without having to trust the manufacturer's claims.[17] Because the solution to the Y2K problem is easy in the context of open source development, almost all commercial quality open source software on the market today, such as the Linux operating system, is already Y2K-ready. Perhaps the most compelling reason why the promotion of open source software serves a public good is that OSS is inherently anti-monopolistic, and may serve as an effective antidote for the monopolistic tendencies which some economists believe exist in the software industry. The market for computer operating systems and other key applications is currently dominated by the Microsoft Corporation. In its ongoing antitrust lawsuit against Microsoft, the Justice Department has claimed that Microsoft is using illegal methods to maintain and extend its monopoly in a way which hinders competition and stifles innovation[18]. Economist Brian Arthur theorized that the phenomenon of network externalities (also called "increasing returns") creates monopolies in high-tech industries and allows inferior products to maintain market dominance at the expense of consumers. In software, according to his theory, "there is no presumption...that superior technology wins."[19] Network externalities means that the value of a product increases with the number of people using it. This is often true in software, since the more people using a particular operating system, the more incentive developers have to write applications for that operating system and not others, which in turn reinforces the market dominance of the operating system. A small initial advantage can lead to a virtually unbreakable monopoly.[20] This phenomenon can also occur in other product relationships besides the operating system-application relationship, such as software which interacts over a network using a particular protocol. Monopoly control through network externalities depends on keeping the underlying structure of software, and the details of how it interacts with other software, a secret. Because only Microsoft has access to and control over the software interface through which application programs interact with the Windows operating system, it would be nearly impossible for any other company to design an operating system which could run programs designed for Windows. Microsoft's exclusive control of the Windows programming interface is what has allowed it to exclude other operating system competitors, such as IBM's OS/2. The open source operating system Linux, on the other hand, does not allow this sort of monopolistic exclusion. Because the source code of Linux is open and freely available, anyone can distribute Linux or write another operating system which can run Linux application programs. Thus, application developers would have no need to favor a particular operating system manufacturer, and the cycle of monopoly "lock-in" would be broken. Even if Linux captured a majority of the market for operating systems, no single company would be able to erect barriers to competition. In fact, there are several companies and organizations developing professional-quality Linux systems, and the vast majority of software written for any of these systems will run on any other. Microsoft is well aware of how OSS eliminates monopoly power. In the "Halloween Document," the internal Microsoft memo previously mentioned, Microsoft technician Vinod Valloppillil observes that: "OSS poses a direct, short-term revenue and platform threat to Microsoft... Additionally, the intrinsic parallelism and free idea exchange in OSS has benefits that are not replicable with our current licensing model and therefore present a long term developer mindshare threat."[21] Valloppillil also acknowledges that OSS prevents monopoly control because it guarantees the availability of open protocols for software interaction. "Linux can win," he says, "as long as services/protocols are commodities,"[22] referring to the open communications standards which Linux uses. Government, through the Justice Department and other agencies, is already committing resources to correct the apparent problems caused by monopoly power in the software industry. A program of OSS promotion and encouragement would be a cost-effective contribution to this effort. Recommendations for Government Action There are several inexpensive ways in which government could help the open source effort: * Being the world's largest consumer of computer software, the U.S. Government has the ability to promote the widespread use and continued development of open source software through its purchasing policies. Not only would many government agencies benefit from the added reliability and security which OSS products provide, but the increased demand for these products would encourage more corporations and independent programmers to embrace OSS methods. This trend has already begun on a small scale: the U.S. Postal Service, for example, uses a highly modified version of Linux to read addresses on envelopes electronically. Many other agencies use Linux for network administration tasks, as it is considerably more affordable then the competing Windows NT software. A risk-free way to assess the benefits of OSS to particular government agencies would be for Congress to initiate a study by the General Accounting Office. The conclusions of such a study could serve as a road map for future software procurement. The study could address the following questions: 1. Does open source software deliver more reliability and security relative to its cost than proprietary software? 2. Which government agencies could benefit from a transition to open source software, such as the Linux operating system? 3. Would it be feasible for these agencies to begin a transition to the use of open source software? * Another possible government action involves the vast pool of software created for internal tasks within the government and the military. Collecting nonclassified source code in a series of repositories for the purpose of allowing public access would benefit both government and the public. Companies and individuals will have access to the expertise of government and military software engineers, obviating the need to solve software problems which have already been solved. Additionally, if some individual or group takes an interest in improving some piece of software in use in a government agency, the agency will reap the benefit, at no cost to taxpayers. Many agencies would no doubt object to the perceived security risk involved in disclosing government source code. As mentioned above, computer security experts consider this argument fallacious. A determined attacker can find security flaws in software with or without the source code, so concealing the source is actually more of a hindrance to those who could seek out and correct security flaws than to those who would exploit them. To put it simply, concealing source code leads to a false sense of security. Opening source code to the public, though it may create short-term apprehensions, will result in more secure software in the long run. * These actions can be addressed in terms of the ongoing effort to eliminate the Year 2000 Problem from government systems. Using nearly any recently developed OSS software assures Y2K readiness, and opening the source code of internally developed software allows for easier modification of that software to solve the problem. These issues should be brought to the attention of the Council on Year 2000 Conversion recently established by President Clinton. * Finally, as discussed above, open source and open standards go hand in hand. Simple, open communications protocols and standards of compatibility facilitate OSS development, as they form a fundamental building block of any OSS project. "OSS projects have been able to gain a foothold in many server applications because of the wide utility of highly commoditized, simple protocols," writes Microsoft's Valloppillil. Significantly, the strategy proposed in that document for competing against OSS is "extending these protocols and developing new protocols,"[23] which implies replacing open standards with proprietary ones. It is precisely this sort of predatory practice which the government should oppose, both on antitrust grounds and specifically to prevent Microsoft from using its control of protocols to interfere with OSS development. The government should more vigorously lend its support to the open standards developed by industry, such as the Internet Engineering Task Force's standard set. ========================================================================= From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 09:35:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:05:06 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] UK Government Adopts Linux WebServers Message-ID: UK Government Chooses Linux Wednesday, 20th October 1999 When the time came to replace the ageing Sun Solaris machines that the British Government employed to run its web sites, the CCTA (Central Computer and Telecommunications Agency) the agency that advises UK Government departments on the use of technology, and which also runs the web sites, chose Linux. The fact was noticed by Netcraft , which has a service that can detect which OS and Web Server are in use on any site. In actual fact NetCraft picked up the fact that the British Royal Family are now Linux users, but this does not imply partiality by Her Royal Highness to the open source movement. The CCTA actually switched all UK Government web sites over to Linux following internal tests. The Government Information Service systems manager Mick Morgan described the decision as a "no-brainer". He was impressed by the reliability that was evident from the tests that were done and remarked that "the Linux on Intel combination blew Sun out of the water". So now the 85 web sites run by the CCTA run on five Dell 23000 Dual Pentium II 450 machines with 512 MB RAM each and 27 Gigabytes of disk. The Linux version is Red Hat 5.2 with Apache 1.3.3. All of this has to be very sobering for both Sun and Microsoft. Microsoft cannot realistically pursue the line that Linux is not enterprise ready when it is the choice under test, by the official government agency, for the largest user of computers in the UK - the Government. The work by the CCTA confirms our own research in this area, just as we go to press. Linux is robust and it is reliable and it scales well enough to run a very very large web site. In case you wondered, the Royal web site is one of the most active government sites in the world often clocking a million visitors a day and accommodating much more than that when there is some compelling royal news. ======================================================================= See http://www.open.gov.uk/ for more information. open.gov.uk is a service provided by the Central Computer and Telecommunications Agency (CCTA). History of service CCTA began work on investigating the possibilities for the development of information superhighways in March 1994 with a feasibility study. In mid 1994 CCTA published a consultative report, "Information Superhighways, Opportunities for public sector applications in the UK". This report outlined potential applications that would be made possible by the advent of digital information superhighways. This stimulated useful debate within the UK and CCTA received much positive feedback on the report. As a result of this response CCTA held a meeting in November 1994 in order to develop the consultative process and lay the foundations for the UK exploitation of the "Information Superhighway". At this meeting the CCTA Government Information Service (CGIS) - www.open.gov.uk - was launched as a pilot Internet service to investigate the technological and information issues associated with the electronic delivery of information and services to the public. The service was launched with the following objectives to: * support the objectives of the Citizen's Charter and Open Government * publish government information * provide a single point of entry for people who want access to government information * provide a service which is simple to use * provide low cost access * provide a means by which government departments could gain experience of publishing information on the internet. The service still has these objectives but is now available to any public sector organisation. The advent of Modernising Government has added greater importance to, and expanded on, these objectives. Since 1994 we have developed considerable expertise in all aspects of running a web site and publishing on the World Wide Web. Our site is now one of the largest and busiest public sector sites in Europe and is highly regarded throughout the world. In the UK its position as a leader in the field of World Wide Web publishing and developments has been recognised by many in the public and private sectors. The service has been awarded many prizes and commendations in acknowledgement of this achievement. One Award committee commented that 'this project has set the guidelines for the use of the Internet within Government for the next few years'. The Internet arena has continued to move forward at quite a speed. More recently we have seen more sophisticated and efficient video and audio technologies, the use of dynamic applications to serve web-based information, Internet shopping and more secure methods of carrying out transactions across the web, to name but a few of the new developments. We have been keeping pace with many of these advances, reflected by our ever increasing range of products. Here are some of the key milestones which this service has gone through in this time. August 1994 comencment of service December 1994 service receives 35,000 accesses a week April 1995 service receives 1,000,000 total accesses since launch May 1995 service receives 2,000,000 total accesses since launch. We stop counting total accesses at this point and just record weekly statistics! August 1997 over the course of 10 calander days the service receives 35,000,000 accesses, mainly due to the death of Princess Diana August 1999 service averages 14,000,000 accesses a week Awards CCTA has collected a number of awards over the years for the open.gov.uk web site. here is just a brief summary of the major ones. Computing UK internet user of the year Computing UK Internet User of the Year John Horam, then Minister for Public Service, said: "I am delighted that 'Computing' has recognised CCTA's achievement in providing this service. The Government Centre for Information Systems deserves credit for opening up the Information Superhighway and providing information to people electronically. Increasingly, organisations and individuals are able to access government information around the clock. This award demonstrates the Government's commitment to using leading edge technology to improve service to the public." Magellan 4-Star Award The highest rated UK Government site on the World Wide Web. magellan says: "Vast Web sites are rarely better organized and navigable than this one created by Great Britain's Central Computer and Telecommunications Agency. The CCTA Government Information Service Web site allows users to effortlessly locate an enormous range of UK government information and services. Searches can be performed through a number of indices, news updates are readily available and linked to relevant sites, and government online projects are showcased. There is also a server information page containing tips on how to create a Web site and an eminently useful help page." Lycos top 5% web site in the world It's a good thing the United Kingdom isn't as big as, say, the United States, because then this list of government sites would be enormous. As it is, the listing (indexed alphabetically or by subject) is pretty large. Whether you're looking for acts of parliament, the Metropolitan Police of London or the "Andrew" (that's the Royal Navy), you'll find the pages of scores of organizations here. And we're not talking about a few lines of fluff at these sites -- many offer statistics, pictures and otherwise hard-to-find info. Just browsing through the list is fun, too: you'll come across great agency names, like "Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Pollution." Excite 3 star site The highest rated UK Government site on the World Wide Web. Excite says: The British Government and all its appendages are here. You will find the upmarket Cabinet Office, the decidedly downmarket Hertfordshire County Council and everything in between. Links to the Royal Observatory and museums too. Useful. NetGuide gold site, the highest rated UK Government site on the World Wide Web. If you really want to track the royals on a daily basis or read what Scotland Yard has to say about the death of a police prisoner, here's where you access the UK government's handouts. You can tap into other information from the Bank of England, Cabinet Office, Crown Prosecution Service, Department of National Heritage, Lord Chancellor's Department, Ministry of Defence, Office of Telecommunications, National Criminal Intelligence Service, and others that take the somewhat irregular pulse of the sceptred isle. Innovation in electronic government CCTA are pleased to announce the following awards received from 'Government Computing' magazine. * CCTA Government Information Service received the 'Innovation in Electronic Government Award 1996'. * The Government On-Line Project received the 'Special Award for Innovation for Electronic Government Award 1996' jointly with the Treasury Board of Canada. * The Award for Electronic Government for Central Government Suppliers for GCAT, the Government Purchasing Catalogue for IT equipment, shared with EDS and ICL Networking industry awards 1996. The judges said: "It's not often the Government comes up with an innovative use of technology but the CCTA project was the winner. Easily the most ambitious development that was entered into this category, this project has set the guidelines for the use of the Internet within Government for the next few years." Copyright 1999, CCTA From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 13:52:13 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 19:22:13 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <3B6EA10D.F81E2E62@ti.com> Raju Mathur wrote: > > all, what you /might/ get called by a misinformed press is more > important than what you do, isn't it? > > Ever hear the term ``knee-jerk reaction''? Sorry, I am not interested in debating this, as you said in your later mail, if you are hosting your letter on non-FSF-I site, I don't see any point in debating this issue. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 14:25:39 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Suraj Kumar S.) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:55:39 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org>; from raju@linux-delhi.org on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 05:06:30PM +0530 References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <20010806195538.A30198@in.inapp.com> > Ever hear the term ``knee-jerk reaction''? > > *Disgusted* I completely agree with RK that, we *should not* have opensource anywhere in our written materials/site. No need to be disgusted Raju. Your letter is really enlightening and whoever reads it will stop and think before opting for propritory. But, as FSF-India our goal should be "Freedon first !". There are many people out there to talk about opensource, but not Freedom. We have to highlight that. -suraj -- GNU/Linux rulz! From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 13:23:02 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan C V) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:53:02 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] Why Govt. Should Promote Open Source Software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 at 14:54, Raj Singh wrote: The enclosed feature article is US Government specific. Surely, this can be adpated for India too. I was planning to write something similar, but dropped that when I came across this article. The last section of the article is missing (I could not download it presently). [...] Raj, you are doing a great service, however, I wonder, instead of sending the whole document to the list, you could have posted the URL of a document that you think will be of useful to the subscribers. That will save a lot of bandwidth, diskspace and mailserver load, please be kind enough to appreciate these constraints. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 15:05:11 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 20:35:11 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: Message-ID: <3B6EB227.20448ED5@eth.net> "Rajagopal C.V" wrote: > need be the FSF-India can immediately convene a press conference to > alert( or enlighten) the press on the points highlighted by Raju Mathur. I FEEL IT IS A MUST. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 14:59:20 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Suraj Kumar S.) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:29:20 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [Reader-list] Re: [LIG] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010806134757.009fc060@mail.sarai.net>; from joy@sarai.net on Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 02:00:37PM +0530 References: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <01080612485801.00795@krishna> <5.1.0.14.2.20010806134757.009fc060@mail.sarai.net> Message-ID: <20010806202920.B30198@in.inapp.com> Hello Mr. Chatterjee, First of all, let me take this opportunity to educate you that, there is no operating system called Linux. IT IS ONLY A KERNEL. The operating system which is popular as Linux is actually GNU/Linux. please visit gnu.org.in (or) gnu.org for more details. On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 02:00:37PM +0530, Joy Chatterjee wrote: > "Where as in case of GNU/Linux anyone can add the Indian Language layer > depending on the needs." > Its all theory but in reality MS Office has a hindi version but any Linux > software do not have any hindi version, Quark Express is also working on a > hindi version but Linux doesn't even have any publishing software like > QuarkExpress (and also web designing software), forget about Indian versions. > It is more over frustrating to see that there is no alternative of server > end bitstream technology for easy viewing of indian web pages in Linux. But > truth is IE has! The support that you are talking about in the above mentioned propritory softwares is little. And let me tell you that, even if they give some support, you will have to remain confined to that - zero enhancements, zero customization , zero room for additions. You will be in a JAIL. > So I don't know how Linux people claim that Linux has more scope in Indian > language, where as proprietary models are already working on it !!! There are a number of FreeSoftware projects running aimed at creating softwares for GNU/Linux in Indian Languages. Iam myself involved in one called Project Indigo - a project aimed at making GNU-Linux a viable platform for Indic computing. As part of the project, developments are in progress for creating/adopting various tools like - editor, browser etc. (Refer: inapp.com/indigo for more details). -suraj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 17:34:27 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:04:27 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] ARIS worm notification Message-ID: <15214.54563.883563.376656@mail.linux-delhi.org> Hi, As you're aware, the ARIS worm is spreading real fast on the Internet. My dial-up machine has received nearly 200 ARIS probes from infected machines since this morning, in about 6 hours of uptime. SecurityFocus has setup an ARIS notification address. They will notify the administrators of infected systems given the IP's of these systems, which will help curb the spread of the virus. This is a request to please cull your HTTP logs (if you're running HTTPD) and send the appropriate information to SecurityFocus. The command to do this is: fgrep ".ida?XXXXX" /var/log/httpd/access_log | \ cut -d" " -f1,4,5 | \ sed -e 's/[][]//g' | \ Mail -s "ARIS Infection Report from httpd access_log" aris-report@securityfocus.com [Line may have wrapped] This would work on a RH 6.2 system. Please use the appropriate path to your Apache logfile for other systems. Regards, -- Raju -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 18:35:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Devang Patel) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:35:06 -0700 Subject: [FSF India] Purchasing Power [Was ... Re: GNU/Linux in Schools] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thursday, August 2, 2001, at 11:11 AM, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > > IN A 'SOFTWARE SUPER-POWER', RURAL KIDS LACK THE CODE TO LEARN... > > By Frederick Noronha > -------------------- Really well covered article with lots of good points. > Of course, at the end of the day, much of the Indian educational > software > scarcity simply boils down to a question of economics. In spite of their > millions-strong numbers, the rural dweller simply doesn't have the > purchasing power. So why should anyone bother with writing software > specifically for him? Even if this is a country that is increasingly > claiming the status of being the world's software superpower. (ENDS) > I think, today or tomorrow, we need to get over this myth of purchasing power. On the paper the rural india does not have the purchasing power, but - Somebody managed to sell Millions of Bajaj Scooters/ Hero Honda/ Yamaha/ Suzuki... - Somebody managed to sell thousands of Maruties - Somebody managed to sell many many Television sets (did anybody count?) - Somebody managed to sell many many Refrigerators - Even on newest electronic appliance in the market -- "Washing Machine" -- somebody is making money... - Half of the total population (I do not have exact number) do not get fresh/pure drinking water, but somehow Pepsi/Coca-cola seems to make lots of money... Bottom line is -- if one gives enough reason to buy he will always find a market to survive in India. My thoughts, Devang From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 00:54:20 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Mathias Koerber) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:54:20 +0800 Subject: [FSF India] Fw: CodeRedII worm.. Message-ID: <004c01c11edb$7f177780$f4db7fcb@dean.koerber.org> -----Original Message----- From: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu To: nanog@merit.edu ; bugtraq@merit.edu ; incidents@merit.edu Date: Sunday, August 05, 2001 4:30 PM Subject: CodeRedII worm.. | |Given that initial analysis of the CodeRedII worm indicates that it leaves |a backdoor laying around, I hereby request that those people who made |lists of infected hosts available last time *NOT* do so again. | |Although said lists *were* helpful in the analysis and study of the worm's |tactics, the benefits are certainly outweighted by the fact that the new |worm creates a known backdoor. I'm certain that both the CodeRedII author |and other black hats would love for us to compile a list of afflicted hosts |for them to use. | |So please everybody - if you're sending IP's in to be added to a table, |make sure you're sending them to a white hat, not to a black hat who's |managed to social-engineer you. If you're a white had compiling a list, |make sure the guy's hat is at least a light grey before you give them |a copy. ;) | | Valdis Kletnieks | Operating Systems Analyst | Virginia Tech | From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 18:18:54 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:48:54 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] ARIS worm notification In-Reply-To: <15214.54563.883563.376656@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, Raju Mathur wrote: > As you're aware, the ARIS worm is spreading real fast on the > Internet. My dial-up machine has received nearly 200 ARIS probes > from infected machines since this morning, in about 6 hours of > uptime. Thanks for the notification. I had 241 probes from 154 unique IPs. I have notified my ISP also about this raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 04:30:05 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:00:05 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] Web Sites Related Free/OpenSource/OpenContent Message-ID: OPEN SOURCE/CONTENT SITES

    Software Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Debian's Social Contract
  • Free Software Organization
  • Free Software Foundation (FSF)
  • GNU (GNU is Not Unix) Stuff
  • GNU in India
  • Open Source Research Team (OSRT) at UNC/iBiblio
  • ESR's Open Source Software (OSS) Site
  • Open Source It
  • Open Office
  • Open Source Development Network (OSDN)
  • Advogato : Free Software Developer's Advocate
  • Be Open Source
  • My Open Source
  • Free Source Code (Andover Net)
  • Open Resources Initiative (Free Software Related)
  • EarthWeb's Open Resources IT
  • Mozilla Site
  • Lycos/Netscape's Open Directory (earlier New Hoo!)
  • Open Object Directory Services
  • OpenSSH (Secure Shell)
  • Open Code (Harvard's Berkman Center Initiative)
  • Open Content Site
  • Open Source Writer's Group (OSWG)
  • Open Source Writer's Group (OSWG)
  • Open Projects Network
  • Software in Public Interest (SPI)
  • OpenDWG Alliance : AutoCAD DWG Format Reverse Engineering
  • NuPedia : Open Content Encyclopedia
  • OpenAvenue Portal on Open Source
  • Open Certification Authority (OpenCA)
  • Open Source Security Tools
  • Open Source CRM Tools
  • Free E-Commerce Software (FECS)
  • Music in Public-Domain
  • OpenVerse Chat Program

    Resources for Open Source/Content Software

  • Cooperative Funding for Open Source Software (CoSourceCom)
  • Source Forge
  • SourceXchange Closed ?
  • Free Software Com
  • Open Codex : Making Compression Free
  • DivX News
  • Apple's Public Source Site
  • Kaivo : Open Source Marketplace
  • O'Reilly Open Books
  • NetAction's Open Source Site
  • Salon's Open Source Special
  • Ziff-Davis Open Source Site

    Hardware Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Open Cores
  • European Space Agency's Leon (SPARC-like) Core
  • Open Hardware
  • Freedom CPU Project
  • Knuth's MMIX Processor
  • Knuth's MMIX Processor Masters
  • Sun's Technology Community Resources (picoJava and SPARC)

    Telecom/Networking Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Open H323 Software for VoIP
  • OpenPhone Software for VoIP
  • Open Telecom Software

    Science Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Open Science Org
  • Open Source in Open Science (BNL)
  • Open Astrophysics (LANL)
  • Open Collaboratory of Molecular Bioinformatics

    Medicine/Medical Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Open Health Resource Site
  • Open Med Resource Site
  • GNU Med
  • Linux+Medical Software News

    Law Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Open Law (OSS Concept Applied to Law Cases)

    Literature Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Bartleby Literature Resource Site
  • Project Gutenberg
  • On-line Books Resource Page
  • Belinus Press
  • Classic Books Bookshelf

    Government Open Source/Content Related Sites

  • Public Policy Library From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 05:23:14 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:53:14 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Public-Funded Knowledge : Free v/s Commercial Message-ID: I have been advocating sharing of information (data, software, ...) among the various educational institutes/CSIR/ISRO/DRDO/BARC/CDAC/CDOT etc. -- particularly if we want to raise the academic teaching standards of RECs and State/Private Engineering Colleges within our country. I feel that public-funded institutes have the obligation to share and give freely their contributions to all who ask for it -- obviously barring the security-related strategic stuff. An example of this kind that springs to the mind is CDAC's word-processing software for Indian languages. It should have been given freely to all government departments, goverment-funded institutes, etc. as it was developed with "public" money. CDAC should have been in turn supported to further enhance this software by the money which was otherwise spent on commercial word-processing software by these bodies -- this is a very large amount if one totals up all that has been already spent on this type of procurement till date. In contrast, CDAC was "forced" to ask money for it from others as they had to "commercially" justify the development of this package. Similarly for NCST developed Hindi software. I understand that NCST subsequently tied-up with Microsoft and this formed the kernel of Indian language support touted by Microsoft for MS-Word in 1999. So, now the government and Indian public is paying Microsoft for what (in some sense) was developed with public money and "belongs" to them ! -- Raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 05:07:09 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:37:09 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Possible OpenAcademic Action Message-ID: Perhaps something on these lines should be adopted by the academic community in India too. I expect IITs/IISc/IIITs would need to take the lead. ============ We seek to -- * develop interoperable, open pedagogical software that can be used for teaching and learning over the Net, and for which its code can be viewed and extended by anyone in the public interest; * be a platform for the use of that software for the production of rich, open educational content; * develop new means of open academic research. ============= Picked the above from http://www.opencode.org/, which is a consortium of entrepreneurial people and institutions wanting to create a space for open software, open research, and open content. -- Raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 05:51:44 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:21:44 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [INFO] NetAction Site : Worth a Visit Message-ID: <> (http://www.netaction.org/) site is worth a visit. Extracts from [1999:ARTICLE] On MS Monopolizing US Education Market follow. -- Raj ==================================================================== Microsoft Goes to College: The US Education Software Market and Microsoft's Expanding Monopoly Editor's Note: This issue features an in-depth analysis by Nathan Newman of Microsoft's strategy for monopolizing the U.S. higher education market. As Nathan explains, if Microsoft succeeds in capturing the campus software market, it could effectively turn our state university systems into private workforce training programs. To help students mobilize against Microsoft's campus software deals, NetAction intern Mitch Stoltz has created a Campus Action Tool Kit, with samples of letters and petitions, a flyer which can be printed for campus distribution, and tips for campus organizing. You will find the Tool Kit at: http://www.netaction.org/msoft/edu/. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 17:55:17 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:25:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15214.17662.822934.812755@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: I've forwarded a version of this letter to Goa IT minister Ramakant Khalap. On behalf of www.bytesforall.org, we would like to add our name as a signatory to this appeal to. BytesForAll is a total unfunded, GNU/Linux-inspired project that currently has 15 volunteers in six South Asian countries (Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Nepal, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka). We are small in number, but try to act as a force-multiplier by spreading around ideas that could be useful to our part of the globe. Best wishes in your work, Frederick. On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, Raju Mathur wrote: > Hi CVR, > Once the letter has been re- and re-re-drafted, I'd be glad to put it > up on my host (kandalaya.org) for signatories along with fsf.org.in. -------------------------------------------------- | Frederick Noronha, Freelance Journalist | | 784, Near Lourdes Convent, Saligao 403511 Goa | | Tel 0091.832.409490/409783 Mobile: 9822.12 24 36 | | E-mail: fred@bytesforall.org or fred@vsnl.com | /) URL-http://www.bytesforall.org | / URL-http://www.goacom.com/news/ \\ _( (+-------------------------------------------------+) ) /| (((\ \) /_) /^) / /))/ (\\\\ \_/ / \ \_ / / // \ / \ / \ __/ \__ / | | | | /*******\ /*******\ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 09:23:16 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 14:53:16 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Public-Funded Knowledge : Free v/s Commercial References: Message-ID: <3B6FB384.44F0D392@ti.com> Raj Singh wrote: > > I have been advocating sharing of information (data, software, ...) among > the various educational institutes/CSIR/ISRO/DRDO/BARC/CDAC/CDOT etc. -- > particularly if we want to raise the academic teaching standards of RECs > and State/Private Engineering Colleges within our country. I heard that in places like ISRO/DRDO, even internal sharing doesn't happen(reportedly due to internal politics and unhealthy competition). So people endup doing the same thing ad-infinitum from scratch. Here in ISRO satellite center, I heard that they don't even have a proper intranet in place. I wonder how sharing can happen without proper communication facilities and proper mentality. -- Ramakrishnan M GPG: 1024D/6A9F3C38 Debian GNU/{Linux,Hurd} World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 16:03:46 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:33:46 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] ARIS -- Oops! Message-ID: <15216.4450.733833.864351@mail.linux-delhi.org> Umm, with regard to my earlier post regarding the worm, the Worm is actually called Code Red II and the reporting tool is called ARIS. Sorry about the confusion. Regards, -- Raju -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 17:38:55 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 23:08:55 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Violation of Fundamental Rights. Message-ID: <3B7027AF.B836D166@eth.net> Dear brothers and sisters Sorry for disturbing you. Is it legitimate to teach softwares that requires a license to practice? - at least in schools. It actually violate the Fundamental Rights. Folowing are my argumnents. 1. (i) Right to freedom of speach and expression . The word "expression" is a method of communicating your feelings and thought to others. I can use a pen and paper to write this letter. I can also user a computer and printer to write this letter. These things are taught at school level. The main difference between these two methods is that the later one requires a license (if tools taught in schools are used) from somebody else - a clear cut violation of our Fundamental Rights. 2. Cultural and Educational Rights. 3. Right to Constitutional Remedies Students are not informed of the fact that they require a license from a third party to use and practice what they are learning. They are kept in dark about this part. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 05:43:43 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:13:43 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] gnu.org.in Message-ID: The delta.christnagar.ac.in which is the primary nameserver for our domain is down from midnight yesterday. I have notified the concerned persons early this morning. I guess, there is a problem with their DOT link and I dont know when this is going to be fixed. Your posts will not appear till the nameserver is up. Apologies for the inconveniences caused in this respect. -- Radhakrishnan List Owner From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 08:54:32 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:24:32 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] Scientists Demand Open Access to Research Papers Message-ID: Public Library of Science (http://www.plos.org/) Should the record of scientific research be privately owned and controlled? We believe that the permanent, archival record of scientific research and ideas should neither be owned nor controlled by publishers, but should belong to the public, and should be made freely available. We support the establishment of international online public libraries of science that contain the complete text of all published scientific articles in searchable and interlinked formats. If you agree, we ask you to join 16,842 of your colleagues from 139 countries in signing an open letter that urges publishers to allow the research reports that have appeared in their journals to be included in electronic archives and to be read and used without obstruction. Open Letter We support the establishment of an online public library that would provide the full contents of the published record of research and scholarly discourse in medicine and the life sciences in a freely accessible, fully searchable, interlinked form. Establishment of this public library would vastly increase the accessibility and utility of the scientific literature, enhance scientific productivity, and catalyze integration of the disparate communities of knowledge and ideas in biomedical sciences. We recognize that the publishers of our scientific journals have a legitimate right to a fair financial return for their role in scientific communication. We believe, however, that the permanent, archival record of scientific research and ideas should neither be owned nor controlled by publishers, but should belong to the public, and should be freely available through an international online public library. To encourage the publishers of our journals to support this endeavor, we pledge that, beginning in September, 2001, we will publish in, edit or review for, and personally subscribe to, only those scholarly and scientific journals that have agreed to grant unrestricted free distribution rights to any and all original research reports that they have published, through PubMed Central and similar online public resources, within 6 months of their initial publication date. ======================= Related News Item ====================== Publish Free or Perish Life scientists are urging publishers to grant free access to archived research articles When a molecular biologist or a biochemist has made a discovery -- often after many months or even years of tedious experiments -- they tell the rest of the world by publishing their results in a scientific journal. So far, these journals have controlled who can read them and who cannot -- but maybe not for much longer. E-mail, Internet discussion groups, electronic databases and pre- or e-print servers have already transformed the way scientists openly exchange their results. And in the life sciences, researchers are now demanding that their work be included in at least one free central electronic archive of published literature, challenging the traditional ownership of publishers. The demand has sparked widespread discussions among scientists, publishers, scientific societies and librarians about the future of scientific publishing. The outcome may be nothing short of a revolution in the scientific publishing world. It all started last fall, when an advocacy group called the Public Library of Science (PLoS) distributed an electronic open letter urging scientific publishers to hand over all research articles from their journals to public online archives for free within six months of publication. To add weight to their demands, the authors threatened a boycott starting in September 2001, pledging to "publish in, edit or review for, and personally subscribe to, only those scholarly and scientific journals" that agreed. As of April 21, 2001 some 15,817 life scientists from 138 countries had signed the letter, among them several Nobel laureates. The authors of the letter feel they have every right to make these demands. After all, it is the scientists who supply the journals with their productsthe manuscriptsfor free. Scientists also help journals by reviewing and judging the quality of each others work, a process called "peer review," without pay. Publishers, in exchange, edit the articles, organize the review process and provide news items and other content. Finally, they produce, market and distribute a printed or electronic journal. In the eyes of Michael Eisen, one of the initiators of the Public Library of Science initiative, the work that publishers do, however, does not justify that they then own the copyrights to the articles. "We think of the publishers as being like a midwife," he says. "They are paid for their role, and at the end of the day, they give the baby back to the parents." Publishers argue that unless they own the copyright, they cannot protect articles from misuse. And scientific publishing is big business: like other scientific societies, the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), for example, finances most of its activities with income from its publication, Science magazine. "I think scientists all over would be shocked to realize what a phenomenally lucrative business scientific publishing can be," Nicholas Cozzarelli, editor-in-chief of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA (PNAS), says. "There are huge sums of money to be had in this field." Journals Don't Play the Game What urged the authors of the open letter into action was the slow progress of PubMed Central, a free electronic full-text archive of research articles started by the National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) at the NIH in early 2000. By storing articles in a common format on a single site, PubMed Central wants to facilitate sophisticated literature searchesfor instance, those restricted to certain parts of a paper, such as the figure legends. Ultimately it also wants to link the literature to other online databases. PubMed Central asks journals to contribute their articles voluntarily as soon as possible after publication -- at most after a year -- giving the journals time to offer exclusive access to make a profit (studies have shown that the demand for research papers decreases sharply after only a few months). But so far, only seven journals, including PNAS and a collection of e-journals, are participating, and a few additional journals have signed up. Even though some journals make their back issues freely available at their own Web sites, they are reluctant to give them away elsewhere. "Journals have just not wanted to play the game," Eisen says. In physics, free electronic archives are old hat. Scientists have been submitting their own research papers -- both before and after publication -- to the Los Alamos e-print archive since 1991, without the participation of publishers, which simply had to accept the practice. Yet the American Physical Society, for example, still sells subscriptions to three journals that publish 14,000 research articles a year. Perhaps not surprisingly, though, many publishers, threatened with either financial losses or a boycott, have been overtly hostile to the open letter. A number of scientific societies depend on the income from their journals to support their activities. But some scientists liken this system to a tax on their papers and think societies should subsidize their activities in other ways. Also, some journals worry that outside archives hosting their articles will introduce errors into the files, lowering the reliability of the information. What if a ug (microgram) suddenly becomes a mg (milligram)? PubMed Central actually detected errors in some of the papers they were given, thereby increasing the overall quality. "The more eyes to look at it and fingers trying to work with it, the more things you can find," says David Lipman, director of the NCBI. On another level, some publishers resent a central, NIH-run archive like PubMed Central because they fear that technical failures would affect all users at once, and because the government might impose restrictions in the future, for example, by ruling not to publish certain kinds of research. On the other hand, PubMed, another NIH-managed database that grants free access to references and abstracts from 4,300 biomedical journals and links back to their Web sites, has been extremely successful and popular among both scientists and publishers. Moreover, publishers point out that a commercial electronic archive, managed by HighWirePress and including nearly 250 journals from many scientific disciplines, already exists and that government money is wasted. Unlike access to PubMed Central, however, most of the HighWire Press journals are not free. As a group, commercial publishers appear unsure about the recent developments and do not seem to have formulated their policies yet. Elsevier Science, Nature Publishing Group (a sister company to Scientific American, which is not a peer-reviewed journal), Cell Press and Academic Press declined interview requests, and Springer Verlag, as well as Allen Press, did not return phone calls. In a written statement, Annette Thomas, managing director of the Nature Publishing Group, commented that "many complex issues have been raised, and we are currently soliciting feedback from scientists, librarians, and other interested parties." Charging Authors, Not Readers One of the main questions to come from the current controversy is, Who will pay for publishing original research articles in the future if subscriptions decline? Only a small fraction of the publication costs of a print journal -- some estimate as little as 10 percent -- covers the editorial and peer review process. Many journals produce a costly print edition and add news, review articles and other valuable information, for which they have to pay. To offset their costs, journals derive income largely from subscriptions, as well as from advertisements, both in print and online, and reprints. But since subscriber numbers may decrease if the access to journal information becomes free elsewhere, various publishers are thinking about changing their business model: instead of billing readers, they plan to bill authors, a practice that is already common in the form of page charges. Overall, these submission charges would amount to only a small fraction of a scientist's total research costs, they say, and could easily be included in research budgets. Libraries, freed from subscription charges, could also chip in on behalf of authors at their institutions. Publishers would make exceptions for researchers from poor countries to ensure that no one is excluded for economic reasons. "We feel it is probably a better system to put the charges on the authors than the other way round," says Peter Newark, editorial director at BioMed Central, a commercial publisher from the U.K. But steep submission charges could steer budget-conscious scientists away from these publications. Many libraries seem to be in favor of open access archives like PubMed Central. "I think these are important efforts, and the library community is very supportive of them," says Joseph Branin, director of the Ohio State University libraries. In recent years, rapidly rising subscription rates for scientific journals have forced libraries to cancel many titles. Most of them now negotiate for electronic access to large sets of journals in consortia, giving them greater bargaining power. If journal articles became freely available after a while, some libraries might stop subscribing to them. But for many scientists, instant access to the literature is crucial to keep up with current developments, so libraries will probably keep subscribing to the most important titles. "Because its available freely over the Internet after the first year of publication does not necessarily mean we are going to cancel our subscriptions to those," Branin remarks. Smaller, specialist journals, however, might be in danger of going out of business. Libraries hope that subscription rates for the first few months -- before free access takes hold -- will come down. But the opposite might be true: if many libraries opted out, publishers might try to recover their costs from the remaining ones. "And for those institutions, my own surely included, this free information could be very expensive indeed," writes Ann Okerson, a librarian at Yale University, in a contribution to a Nature Web debate. Scientists and libraries in developing countries, which often cannot afford subscriptions, would probably benefit most from free electronic archives. A Possible Compromise on the Horizon Come September, will the scientists who signed the open letter really go through with a boycott? Journals depend on their authors, but equally, researchers in the life sciencesespecially young investigatorsneed to publish in "brand name" journals, such as Cell, Nature and Science, to advance their careers. "I can't afford to boycott these journals because my career is not established yet," says an assistant professor from a New York medical school, who asked to remain unnamed. Nobel Prize winners, on the other hand, may find it easier to divert their papers to less established publications. One of the practical problems of a boycott would be providing enough alternative journals for scientists to publish in. Some are thinking about starting their own journals. In mathematics, for example, some editorial boards in Europe have already left their commercial publishers and created new titles at their own institutions. "They are finding that while it does cost money, the costs are actually quite minimal," notes Mary Case of the Association of Research Libraries. BioMed Central also offers to provide the logistics for scientists who want to start their own journals. quote That said, a possible compromise has recently appeared on the horizon: only two weeks ago, PubMed Central announced it would allow participating publishers to link back to their own Web sites, rather than insist that they display full-text articles on the NIH server. PubMed Central would still obtain a full-text copy for search purposes, but they would hide it from public view. Many publishers are currently considering this solution. "I think lots of publishers will grant free access after a period of time on the basis proposed in this compromise," says Donald Kennedy, editor-in-chief of Science. He also thinks that "under those circumstances, the threat of a boycott will vanish." But for Eisen and many others, such an arrangement doesn't go far enough. Eisen still wants to see free access to alternative archives as well: "I remain absolutely convinced that the real future of publishing, five years out, is one in which nobody controls the literature." Whatever the outcome, the scientific publishing world is in turmoil. Both Nature and Science have started e-debates on their Web sites, and contributions from many sides are pouring in. "It [the open letter] was not an unreasonable proposal," Kennedy comments. "It has gotten a good conversation started." In the end, it will probably be the authors who decide the issue. As Case puts it, "It is the scientists who are going to have to figure out how they want their work to be available." ================================================================= Scientists Demand Open Access to Research Over 16,500 scientists from across the world have threatened to boycott all journals that refuse to provide free public online access to their articles within 6 months of publication. After all, the scientists provide the articles free of charge. What's the excuse the journals use? They claim that public archives introduce errors into the articles, making them unreliable! It sounds like scientists are getting a bit peeved now -- good for them. The lesson that "No, you don't have to give up all your rights to your work in exchange for publication anymore". ================================================================= From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 03:29:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 08 Aug 2001 08:59:06 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <3B6E686E.2B94527A@ti.com> <15214.33086.75936.566901@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <863d73mdq5.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raju Mathur writes: > >>>>> "RK" == Ramakrishnan M writes: > > RK> Raju Mathur wrote: > >> We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom > >> proponents in India are deeply distressed to learn about your > >> Government's plans > > RK> I suggest avoiding the term Open Source, and use only the > RK> other two. Because, you see, it sends out wrong impressions > RK> outside. If a press release based on this letter comes out, > RK> FSF-India will be termed as a group Open Source proponents. > > Good idea. In fact, let's all create one version each of the letter > (GPL enthusiasts, BSD License enthusiasts, Open Source enthusiasts, > Electronic Freedom enthusiasts, etc); that way we'll be able to > achieve much more. Even if we don't, it doesn't matter since, after > all, what you /might/ get called by a misinformed press is more > important than what you do, isn't it? Yes, it is *very* important! Propagating the term "Open Source" keeps a "misinformed press" just that, misinformed. We *must* inform the press that the term Open Source is not interchangeable with Free Software and that, in fact, Open Source is nothing but a *dumbing down* of Free Software intended for people who do not understand such *complicated* things like FREEDOM! But a Free Press knows everything about freedom, doesn't it? A Free Press can be the most powerful ally of Free Software. Just calling them "misinformed" and leaving it at that is the worst approach. Enlightening the press about Free Software should be our topmost priority. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 03:57:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 08 Aug 2001 09:27:56 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raju Mathur writes: > Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State government > which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I am making it as > general-purpose as possible so that more people are willing to sign > it: this is not a time for family squabbles. I'd appreciate any > additions/enhancements which can be made to this letter. This otherwise well-crafted draft letter is incomplete if it does not mention the most important point about Free Software, namely FREEDOM. After all, it is being written to a democratically elected State Government and the "Right to Freedom" is a fundamental right enshrined in our Constitution; in particular, article 19, Freedom of Speech and Expression. The letter must impress upon the Government how proprietary software takes away our freedom. It must also advise the Government to ask its legal department to go through the notorious MS "End User License Agreement" to see if it is legal for a democratically elected Government to accept such a horrendous agreement on behalf of its people! As for the rest of the points which lucidly explain all the technical and monetary benefits of Free Software, let us not be naive and forget that we are up against a huge corporation which has a well-oiled and highly efficient marketing machine at its disposal. They can effectively come up with a point-by-point rebuttal of all these points which might look very convincing to a non-tech-savvy civil servant. However, when we talk about FREEDOM, they have no answer! Even their Head Honcho, who may be otherwise a very intelligent man, starts blabbering childishly and incoherently (words like "pacman," "un-American" etc come to mind) when confronted with the freedom argument. Without stressing on Freedom, we have very little chance. The first point of the letter should be Freedom. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 7 15:13:57 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Tapas Ray) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:43:57 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] MS-WB Message-ID: <006001c11f54$11ef64a0$cea9c8cb@b5m9z2> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C11F81.ADF150C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi. I'm a journalist based in Calcutta. I'd appreciate it if you could = let me know if the protest letter has been e-mailed to the WB Govt. If = so, could you copy it to me? Thanks. Tapas Ray ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C11F81.ADF150C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi. I'm a journalist based = in Calcutta.=20 I'd appreciate it if you could let me know if the protest letter has = been=20 e-mailed to the WB Govt. If so, could you copy it to me?
    Thanks.
    Tapas = Ray
    ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C11F81.ADF150C0-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 05:12:48 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:42:48 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> Khuzaima, While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. If you notice, I have tried to stay away from any of the following: - Controversial issues (e.g. MS' ongoing court case(s)) - Un-verifiable data - Philosophy - Opinions The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which cannot be debated away. Philosophy and opinions, by definition, are debatable, and I had no intention of letting anyone use one single point in the document as a lever to draw attention away from the others and make the whole exercise meaningless. Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "Khuzaima" == Khuzaima A Lakdawala writes: Khuzaima> Raju Mathur writes: >> Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State >> government which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I >> am making it as general-purpose as possible so that more people >> are willing to sign it: this is not a time for family >> squabbles. I'd appreciate any additions/enhancements which can >> be made to this letter. Khuzaima> This otherwise well-crafted draft letter is incomplete Khuzaima> if it does not mention the most important point about Khuzaima> Free Software, namely FREEDOM. After all, it is being Khuzaima> written to a democratically elected State Government and Khuzaima> the "Right to Freedom" is a fundamental right enshrined Khuzaima> in our Constitution; in particular, article 19, Freedom Khuzaima> of Speech and Expression. Khuzaima> [snip] -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 14:03:37 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 19:33:37 +0530 Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org>; from raju@linux-delhi.org on Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:42:48AM +0530 References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <20010808193337.A1855@mailandnews.com> On Wed, Aug 08, 2001 at 10:42:48AM +0530, Raju Mathur wrote: > The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which > cannot be debated away. Philosophy and opinions, by definition, are > debatable, and I had no intention of letting anyone use one single > point in the document as a lever to draw attention away from the > others and make the whole exercise meaningless. On the other hand, I feel that if we don't speak of freedom or hide it behind the other facts, the whole exercise becomes meaningless. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 15:22:41 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 20:52:41 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <1043.192.168.0.4.997284161.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> I agree with raju,and hey your arguments with Arun on various lists about GPL and BSD licenses are paying off ;-), good draft, i personally could have not done it better. cheers S.Goswami > Khuzaima, > > While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free > Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. If you > notice, I have tried to stay away from any of the following: > > - Controversial issues (e.g. MS' ongoing court case(s)) > - Un-verifiable data > - Philosophy > - Opinions > > The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which > cannot be debated away. Philosophy and opinions, by definition, are > debatable, and I had no intention of letting anyone use one single point in > the document as a lever to draw attention away from the > others and make the whole exercise meaningless. > > Regards, > > -- Raju -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 05:37:31 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:07:31 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Violation of Fundamental Rights. In-Reply-To: <3B7027AF.B836D166@eth.net> References: <3B7027AF.B836D166@eth.net> Message-ID: <20010808110731.B2124@debianut.ekmnet> [Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 11:08:55PM +0530] M Balakrishna: > Sorry for disturbing you Not at all. > Students are not informed of the fact that they require > a license from a third party to use and practice what > they are learning. They are kept in dark about this part. And also that they are indirectly made to make copies of these *proprietary* programs thereby exposing themselves to the 'information police'. They risk arrest and detention for no fault of theirs. They are led to violate laws which are of not their making ! There is a good cause of action here..... If we intend to take this to task at all, stressing on this aspect of the Syllabi; we have to frame the teachers who fix these Syllabi for our schools/colleges. The teachers who have recommended the use of these *proprietary* material have to be made answerable, they have to be literally sued in a Court of Law for their irresponsible behavior. The scope of getting this remedied is very high. The intent of these syllabus-setters can be questioned, in that they may be having a pecuniary/monetary benefit from the *non-free* software companies. The remedy lies in the recommendation of the use of *free* software which can be *legally* copied and exchanged. The use of *non-free* software in school/college syllabi should be banned by a Court of Law. Now someone has to bell the Cat ! -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 16:41:42 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:11:42 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Violation of Fundamental Rights. Message-ID: <3B716BC6.307689BE@eth.net> Dear brothers and sisters Sorry for disturbing you. Is it legitimate to teach softwares that requires a license to practice? - at least in schools. It actually violate the Fundamental Rights. Folowing are my argumnents. 1. (i) Right to freedom of speach and expression . The word "expression" is a method of communicating your feelings and thought to others. I can use a pen and paper to write this letter. I can also user a computer and printer to write this letter. These things are taught at school level. The main difference between these two methods is that the later one requires a license (if tools taught in schools are used) from somebody else - a clear cut violation of our Fundamental Rights. 2. Cultural and Educational Rights. 3. Right to Constitutional Remedies Students are not informed of the fact that they require a license from a third party to use and practice what they are learning. They are kept in dark about this part. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 8 18:12:10 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:42:10 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] LINK: Linux in Education mailing list... (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Want to subscribe to an Indian mailing-list focussing on Linux in Education? Please check the following instructions... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Use the following link for subscribing. ->LIFE mailing list ->LIFE@mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in ->http://mm.hbcse.tifr.res.in/mailman/listinfo/life This list is run by Prof Nagarjuna of the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research in Mumbai, India. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nagarjuna G. HBCSE, TIFR, V.N.Purav Marg, Mankhurd, Mumbai 400088 India. Phone: 5567711 Res: 2155604 nagarjun@hbcse.tifr.res.in www.hbcse.tifr.res.in ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 05:13:10 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 09 Aug 2001 10:43:10 +0530 Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Dear Raju, Raju Mathur writes: > While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free > Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. What kind of a compromise is this? We might as well shut down FSF-I then. If we are *deliberately* not going to talk about freedom, FSF-I loses it reason to exist. It just becomes an Open Source body. RMS wouldn't even have agreed to come here for its inauguration if he knew that we were going to *deliberately* omit mentioning freedom in our arguments. > The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which > cannot be debated away. How can our fundamental rights be debated away? It makes no sense! Pappu definitely hit the bull's eye when he said: On the other hand, I feel that if we don't speak of freedom or hide it behind the other facts, the whole exercise becomes meaningless. If you must go ahead with the letter as it is, *deliberately* leaving out "the most important facet of Free Software", please do, but please be kind enough to remove the terms Free Software and Electronic Freedom from its opening line to read: We, the Open Source proponents in India... It's a pity, because the letter states and explains many of the *other* benefits of Free Software so nicely and lucidly. If only it did not shy away from stating the *main point* of Free Software, it would have made a powerful letter. Best regards, Khuzaima -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 05:35:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:05:28 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Sublists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1118.192.168.0.4.997335328.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> I am one for it , provided the posting guidelines are clearly mentioned somewhere so that people know what lists they are subscribing to. S.Goswami > It seems that we need to have more sublists based on themes now > under extensive deliberation like: > > > 1. Free Software in Education > 2. Programming and technical > 3. Projects, developer coordination > 4. General (philosophy, events, licence, etc) > 5. ... > -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 05:59:18 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:29:18 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> References: <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <1170.192.168.0.4.997336758.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> > Dear Raju, > > Raju Mathur writes: > >> While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free >> Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. > > What kind of a compromise is this? We might as well shut down FSF-I then. > If we are *deliberately* not going to talk about freedom, FSF-I loses it > reason to exist. It just becomes an Open Source body. RMS wouldn't even > have agreed to come here for its inauguration if he knew that we were going > to *deliberately* omit mentioning freedom in our arguments. RMS is smarter than he looks. He knows what he is doing and why he has come to India.you are over reacting to what he meant and said cool down. >> The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which >> cannot be debated away. > > How can our fundamental rights be debated away? It makes no sense! Why don't you draft one so that we can choose the best one or do some alterations to the existing one.You are Free to do that :) > Pappu definitely hit the bull's eye when he said: > > On the other hand, I feel that if we don't speak of freedom or hide > it behind the other facts, the whole exercise becomes meaningless. Nobody is trying to hide anything , its just a matter of experiece leaving in a physical as well as the virtual world that's speaking from Raju's point of view. GodDammit this guy is a pro and he makes a living out of Free Software Services.I would like you to be in his shoes for a while and imagine, that's all. > > If you must go ahead with the letter as it is, *deliberately* leaving out > "the most important facet of Free Software", please do, but please be kind > enough to remove the terms Free Software and Electronic Freedom from its > opening line to read: Why is it TM too :-) > > We, the Open Source proponents in India... > > It's a pity, because the letter states and explains many of the > *other* benefits of Free Software so nicely and lucidly. If only it did not > shy away from stating the *main point* of Free Software, it would have made > a powerful letter. cheers S.Goswami -- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 06:06:36 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:36:36 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <15218.10348.617799.590822@mail.linux-delhi.org> Hi Khuzaima, You are welcome to do any or all of the following: - Ignore my original posting and all follow-ups. - Shut down FSF-I - Use the letter as it is - Use the letter after modification under the terms of the GNU Documentation License - Remove or add any terms you want to the letter Please do remember, however: - You, the FSF-I, FSF and GNU are not the only proponents of Electronic Freedom in the world. Please do not try to take that mantle upon yourselves or try to shoulder that burden solo -- your shoulders will not take it. - My objective in writing the letter was to stop the alliance of MS with State Governments. If your objective is different, please write/advocate whatever you please. If you feel that the original objective can be met with a different approach, please feel free to go ahead with that. Do not confuse issues -- other people (e.g. MS executives) will be glad enough to do that for you for free. - I am not sending the letter to anyone: other people are. I feel I have done my bit with drafting it and releasing it. If you have further issues please take them up with the people who're redrafting and sending the letter. - *Really mad* If I can help stop the WB and other State Governments from tying up with MS for e-governance, I don't give a sh*t whether RMS, LT, Tom Christiansen or God Himself comes to inaugurate the FSF-I. That may have been the most important event in the lives of many people, but this is more important to me. Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "Khuzaima" == Khuzaima A Lakdawala writes: Khuzaima> Dear Raju, Raju Mathur writes: >> While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free >> Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. Khuzaima> What kind of a compromise is this? We might as well shut Khuzaima> down FSF-I then. If we are *deliberately* not going to Khuzaima> talk about freedom, FSF-I loses it reason to exist. It Khuzaima> just becomes an Open Source body. RMS wouldn't even have Khuzaima> agreed to come here for its inauguration if he knew that Khuzaima> we were going to *deliberately* omit mentioning freedom Khuzaima> in our arguments. >> The idea was to create a document which would present hard >> facts which cannot be debated away. Khuzaima> How can our fundamental rights be debated away? It makes Khuzaima> no sense! Khuzaima> Pappu definitely hit the bull's eye when he said: Khuzaima> On the other hand, I feel that if we don't speak Khuzaima> of freedom or hide it behind the other facts, the whole Khuzaima> exercise becomes meaningless. Khuzaima> If you must go ahead with the letter as it is, Khuzaima> *deliberately* leaving out "the most important facet of Khuzaima> Free Software", please do, but please be kind enough to Khuzaima> remove the terms Free Software and Electronic Freedom Khuzaima> from its opening line to read: Khuzaima> We, the Open Source proponents in India... Khuzaima> It's a pity, because the letter states and explains many Khuzaima> of the *other* benefits of Free Software so nicely and Khuzaima> lucidly. If only it did not shy away from stating the Khuzaima> *main point* of Free Software, it would have made a Khuzaima> powerful letter. Khuzaima> Best regards, Khuzaima -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 06:22:46 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:52:46 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <1170.192.168.0.4.997336758.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 at 11:29, Satyakam Goswami wrote: > What kind of a compromise is this? We might as well shut down > FSF-I then. If we are *deliberately* not going to talk about > freedom, FSF-I loses it reason to exist. It just becomes an > Open Source body. RMS wouldn't even have agreed to come here > for its inauguration if he knew that we were going to > *deliberately* omit mentioning freedom in our arguments. RMS is smarter than he looks. He knows what he is doing and why he has come to India.you are over reacting to what he meant and said cool down. It is a practical problem and let us not flame on it. I will agree with Raju on the draft letter since we are talking to the political leadership of a state government who are all well aware of the values of freedom and democracy. It might be a nice idea to add a paragraph on software freedom too which might be missing in the draft letter, but software freedom without software merits is not a convincing factor for the leadership to adopt it for governance, for, you might not have dared to send this letter five years back when this very freedom was available then too in the same magnitude and dimension as we have now. Therefore, let us make the draft letter complete with necessary addition of the paragraph(s) on freedom (Pappu, Satyakam: please contribute) and other missing/relevant philosophical issues, let us make it ready at the earliest to send it to the WB government, instead of nitpicking on a finely drafter letter which was meant for adoption/modification by a wider spectrum of software enthusiasts to suit their philosophy and subsequent despatch to the WB goverment. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 07:41:16 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satish Babu) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 00:41:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010809074116.15209.qmail@web5102.mail.yahoo.com> I agree with this suggestion. What is imperative now is to get cracking on a course of action. Let's put in what is left out in the letter ASAP and get working on talking to the WB government. Cheers Satish --- Radhakrishnan CV wrote: > Therefore, let us make the draft letter complete > with necessary > addition of the paragraph(s) on freedom (Pappu, > Satyakam: please > contribute) and other missing/relevant philosophical > issues, let us > make it ready at the earliest to send it to the WB > government, > instead of nitpicking on a finely drafter letter > which was meant for > adoption/modification by a wider spectrum of > software enthusiasts > to suit their philosophy and subsequent despatch to > the WB > goverment. > > > -- > Radhakrishnan > > _______________________________________________ > http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 08:37:03 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 09 Aug 2001 14:07:03 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Our debate In-Reply-To: <15218.10348.617799.590822@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9otx1cp.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15218.10348.617799.590822@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <86elql634g.fsf_-_@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raju Mathur writes: > - *Really mad* If I can help stop the WB and other State Governments > from tying up with MS for e-governance, I don't give a sh*t whether > RMS, LT, Tom Christiansen or God Himself comes to inaugurate the > FSF-I. That may have been the most important event in the lives of > many people, but this is more important to me. Dear Raju, My apologies for having generated such bitterness. We were having a debate and a debate need not end on such a bitter note. I do not wish to take away any credit from you for having drafted the original letter and I am sure the final letter will owe a lot to you. Best regards, Khuzaima -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 09:29:24 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 14:59:24 +0530 Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: ; from cvr@river-valley.org on Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:52:46AM +0530 References: <1170.192.168.0.4.997336758.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: <20010809145924.A11542@mailandnews.com> On Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:52:46AM +0530, Radhakrishnan CV wrote: > > It is a practical problem and let us not flame on it. I will agree > with Raju on the draft letter since we are talking to the political > leadership of a state government who are all well aware of the > values of freedom and democracy. May be. But by planning to use non free software, they don't prove their awareness. Or may be, they don't know much about the freedom (or lack of freedom) when it comes to software. If this is the case, freedom is what we should talk of. Technical merrits of free software can always be easily debated (non free world has some of the best lawyers trained to do just that). We can always talk of 60% (?) websites in the world running on apache and all such statistics, but people are ready with other statistics to counter this. > > It might be a nice idea to add a paragraph on software freedom too > which might be missing in the draft letter, Please don't reduce it to just another paragraph. > but software freedom > without software merits is not a convincing factor for the > leadership to adopt it for governance, I feel that we should demand freedom, and just show the government that ree alternatives exist. It is the duty of the government to verify the technical merrits (we can help). If they think that free software can't be used, then we should demand (as citizens of India) to delay this e-governance stuff until they feel otherwise. The government has no right to impose non free stuff on us. In summary, we should demand that the government use free software, just for the sake of freedom. If they need help in verifying the technical merrits of free software, it should be provided. But these should not be (and cannot be IMHO) used as reasons for using free software. The reason is always FREEDOM. > for, you might not have dared > to send this letter five years back when this very freedom was > available then too in the same magnitude and dimension as we have > now. If e-governance is not possible with free software, it should not be implemented. > Therefore, let us make the draft letter complete with necessary > addition of the paragraph(s) on freedom And removal of terms like open source.. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 10:44:12 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:14:12 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <20010809145924.A11542@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Pappu wrote: > The government has no right to impose non free stuff on us. ...... > we should demand that the government use free software, just for > the sake of freedom. ....... > If e-governance is not possible with free software, it should not > be implemented. ..... While we all feel strongly about the Free Software philosophy, taking such fundamentalist positions has a chance to do more harm that good. Pappu, Can you come up with a text to be included in Raju's letter about freedom? > And removal of terms like open source.. When the term Open Source is included it actually does imply that Free Software movement and Open Source movement are similar but different. So why remove it. FSF should always co-operate with other like minded orgs where ever possible with out loosing its individuality. That will only do good to the goals of FSF. raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 13:31:25 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 19:01:25 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT References: Message-ID: <3B7290AD.E3518184@ti.com> "Rajkumar S." wrote: > > While we all feel strongly about the Free Software philosophy, taking > such fundamentalist positions has a chance to do more harm that good. RMS achieved his goal, without compromising his fundamentalistic position. Imagine what would have happened if he had compromised his philosophy at any point of time in the last 18 years? > FSF should always co-operate with other like minded orgs where ever > possible with out loosing its individuality. That will only do good to > the goals of FSF. Could you please elaborate how FSF should co-operate with other like minded orgs without loosing it's individuality? By being a signatory of a letter which doesn't mention about Freedom? -- Ramakrishnan M World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 14:38:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Geoffrey Williams) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 07:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] MSFT and e-governance In-Reply-To: <3B7290AD.E3518184@ti.com> Message-ID: <20010809143806.29744.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Even more significant than a one-off with West Bengal... PwC, Microsoft to organise roadshows on e-governance Kolkata, August 08, 2001 In what appears to be first of its kind, PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) and Microsoft Corp (India) Pvt Ltd have decided to organise jointly roadshows on e-governance in Indian cities. http://www.zdnetindia.com/news/national/stories/35034.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 16:49:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 22:19:06 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] One more template letter to the Govt Message-ID: Hi all, I am attaching one more letter which was drafted quite some time back for the Govt of Kerala by the then Trivandrum "Linux" user group. I guess it has some important points we can add to the Raju's letter. Please understand that this is quite old letter and some facts may be outdated. raj \documentclass[a4paper,12pt]{article} \usepackage{hyperref} %\usepackage{garamond} \begin{document} \section{TODO ( not in the order of importance)} \begin{enumerate} \item Support options \item Training \item A profile about the business practices of Bill Gates and MS \end {enumerate} \section{Introduction} On 8th June there was a news item in the press stating, as part of computerisation in different institutions under the Govt of Kerala, the Public sector undertaking C-DIT had made contract with the Microsoft Corp India Ltd. It will be a huge project involving large amount of money and having long term effects. In fact the project can be implemented with lesser cost using a technologically superior product named Linux. Linux is an operating system that was initially created as a hobby by a young student, Linus Torvalds, at the University of Helsinki in Finland. Linux is often considered an excellent, low-cost alternative to other more expensive operating systems. In addition to being cost-effective, it is constantly being updated and refined with the latest technologies. As Linux gains greater acceptance throughout the computing industry, more and more companies are supporting Linux via both application and hardware compatibility. \section{Technical Superiority} The days of ``one size fit all'' are gone. IS mgrs should choose the right tools to do the right job. So all the platforms should be able to interact with each other seamlessly and there is not a single platform including Linux that is the right solution. None other than Microsoft knows this better. Since they are using Apache (The most popular web server in the world) to power Hotmail, Microsoft's online portal. This is a transcript of a web client with the Hotmail server which proves the point. \begin {verbatim} HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:50:58 GMT Server: Apache/1.3.6 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.8 SSLeay/0.9.0b Cache-Control: no-cache Expires: Mon, 01 Jan 1999 00:00:00 GMT Pragma: no-cache Connection: close Content-Type: text/html Hotmail - The World's FREE Web-based Email \end{verbatim} Three main char that a business OS should have are \begin{itemize} \item stability \item security \item support \end{itemize} \subsection{Stability} Unices has been around for more than 3 decades and is widely field tested. Linux boxes have reported uptimes in years \footnote{(any egs/citations? } and are very mature. Linux do not belive in the policy of ``Put out bad SW, Have users sufer, make them pay for support''. Linux software, due to the open nature under go extensive peer review and beta testing so that chances of bug is limited. Once any bugs are found the chances are that they are fixed faster than a similar bug in a proprietary software. \subsection{Completeness} Linux is almost a complete out-of-the box solution. with almost all the tools you need to do most of your requirments from Internet and Intranet to mail to File Server. Due to its ability to emulate a Unix machine or a Windows NT or Netware machine Linux is the ideal file server. Using the Samba \url{http://www.samba.org} Service Linux can mimic as a NT server. Users will still be connected to an NT server except that NT magically performs faster with no blue-screen of death. \subsection{Hardware requirement} Linux can run on ridiculously low end hardware. So this would not require the Govt. to ``junk'' the costly hardware every few months to install the upgraded software. \footnote{(We can put in the min HW requirement of Linux/NT for some common applications. Also we can trace the increse in the HW requirement for NT over the versions) } Another important fallout of this is that Linux will beat many of the OS on identical HW by margins that no longer seems funny. \section{Social and Economic Factors}\footnote{or a better title} Linux is a completely free reimplementation of the POSIX specification, with SYSV and BSD extensions (which means it looks like Unix, but does not come from the same source code base), which is available in both source code and binary form. Its copyright is owned by Linus Torvalds, \url{torvalds@transmeta.com} and other contributors, and is freely redistributable under the terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL). A copy of the GPL is included with the Linux source; you can also get a copy from \url{ftp://prep.ai.mit.edu/pub/gnu/COPYING} \subsection{Meaning of FREE software} Linux is not public domain, nor is it ``shareware''. It is ``free'' software, commonly called freeware, and you may give away or sell copies, but you must include the source code or make it available in the same way as any binaries you give or sell. If you distribute any modifications, you are legally bound to distribute the source for those modifications. See the GNU General Public License for details. Linux is still free as of version 2.0, and will continue to be free. Because of the nature of the GPL to which Linux is subject, it would be illegal for it to be made not free. Note carefully: the ``free'' part involves access to the source code rather than money; it is perfectly legal to charge money for distributing Linux, so long as you also distribute the source code. Their are many implications for the access to the source code. These do not matter much for an individual but when a government is using this it assumes serious proportions. \footnote{Can some one write a para about this} \subsection{ Perils of Monopoly} The main revenue source of many companies are the corporate and govt institutions which buys software in large quantities. Business savvy companies will first give away software in a reduced or in a subsidized rate. They are doing this in order to entice the clients in to their net. Buying software is not like buying any other product. It involves along with lot of money a larger investment in the form of training and other custom made software. So once the govt decides on the core OS for the computerization program it cannot change it let us say after 5 or 10 years. At this point we will get to see the real face of the software company. It will then start to act as a typical monopoly since it is very sure that we do not have any other option other than to succumb to its commands. It starts to ask for exorbitant prices for the software upgrades. It will force us to use its other software by changing the protocols of its servers. Microsoft is particularly notorious in this regard. They are known to use their monopoly in one field of computer industry to kill the competition in the other field. An anti trust case is already going on in this regard in the US courts and MS was ordered to pay a huge amount of money to Netscape communications as damages it faced due to the illegal and monopolistic trade practices of Microsoft. \subsection{Catch them early} One of the highlites of the contract with the Microsoft is their offer for training of the faculty of the colleges. Although this may be seen as some thing very useful for us we should be aware of the hidden danger of behind this. The people whom the MS is going to train are the people who are going to mould the future of this country. So if they can be brain washed into the MS fold then half the battle of MS will be won. All the professors and lectures of this state will have their minds clogged with the MS propaganda. This will ensure that the generations of students who are going to pass out of our institutions will not be able to see any thing beyond Microsoft. Such a situation has the potential of propelling us back to old colonialism in the information age. Linux has support for all the computer languages that one can think about and more. In a situation where we could not satisfy basic needs in most of our schools how can we justify spending large sum for the latest hardware so that Windows 98 will run. The ``outdated'' computer is a computer which became outdated since the most of the main stream software like Windows 98 are not working on them. Even then it is power full enough to satisfy the computing needs in college and schools. The MS products are designed such that that user will be unaware of most of the inner working of the system. This will be helpful for a casual user but Students must have this knowledge. Other wise we will be creating users for MS products. In schools and colleges in some western countries even students works as system administrators under linux( see LG 32). What about our students are they not brilliant ? \subsection{Adherence to open standards} Internet is used by everybody in the world, using many different products. For these products to interact Internet community has produced some standards. With the help of these open standards (ie any one can get a copy of these stds) any product from any company can interact with any other product from any other company. This is very much like the socket and plug. We are having an open standard in this. Now consider the case of a very big company which makes all electric accessories and sockets. Its sockets are much cheaper to buy but you cannot put any other companies instruments in that socket. Would you buy this socket when you build your home ? No since if you buy this then forever you are bound to the socket producing company. This is same situation faced by the Internet community also. Microsoft is one of the company which is secretly sabotaging the openness of the Internet community. \footnote{See the the Halloween documents at \url{http://www.opensource.org/halloween}} The rise of the Internet has been both a threat to Microsoft's empire and an opportunity to expand it to a degree impossible before. With various forecasters expecting between \$80 and \$160 billion in electronic commerce by the year 2000, the Internet had become the decisive realm of computer competition for the future.\footnote{``In search of the perfect market'' The Economist. May 10, 1997.} The threat of the Internet was obvious: with a twenty-year tradition of open computing standards connecting computers of all kinds, the Internet looked ready to make proprietary operating systems for individual machines an anachronism. The first action by MS to capture internet and the open world was the creation of proprietary MS -online which failed miserably. Then came the browser war. The browser is the main tool used for communicating information on internet. Through its dominance in the desktop computers it tried to destroy the competitors like netscape in creating browsers. And thus it hoped to control the internet and by using its very deep pockets it was able to succeed to a limited extent. Microsoft follows the policy of embrace and kill. It adopts an open standard then brings a propriety extension to the std and comes out with the clients that can understand this. This will lock out others from the service provided by the MS servers and they will be forced to buy the MS products which will be sold at high price. \subsection{Training and Education } In the networked world of computing the trained professionals are prime requirement for the success of a Software. India is traditionally known as a UNIX country. All our major educational institutions will include atlest a single module on UNIX. Any person who knows how to work under Unix can migrate to Linux with just few days working knowledge. Linux complies to Unix standards. Self training is also possible since most of the required information are available with the package itself. Help is available in plenty from global Linux community through Internet. As the Internet becoming more popular this will be interesting and informative than conventional methods. Linux complies to all the relevent open standards. Since you are working with only the products using open standards it will be easy to migrate from Linux to all the systems which adhere to these standards. Even MS uses these standards but as the part of their strategy they will ``embrace and extend'' it to make it their own. \subsection{Archival of old Information} With the advent of computerisation and paperless office one inportant issue people tend to overlook is the archival of old information. Today we will be able to obtain a copy of any government document which was brought out let us say 50 years back, and this will remain so for future also. Once we achive full computerisation we will not have any paper document as paper is not the best mediun for storing data and also people will tend to ignore the printouts as they can always be genarated. So the original source document becomes very important, and it has to be stored very carefully. Consider a sample document, the Kerala budjet, it will invariably be type set in some wordprocessor like say MS Word. We will think that we can copy it in some tape or write the file in some CD. With this the document will be safe for let us say 2 years, since new versons of software always comes out and it may introduce some new file format which is incompatable with the old budget which we have written in CD. So we may write the software also in the CD, in that case the the document will be safe for another 5 more years. New and new changes happens in the OS market and no one can be sure of the fact that OS after 5 years will be able to run the software which we have written in the CD. So we may think to write the OS also but by now you may have got a feeling that this is not the solution. The solution is again to go back to the open standards. All the problems in the above para occur due to the fact that the file format of the software is propriety. That is the reason why that particular program was needed to read that file. If \section{Economic viability} \subsection{Requirments of an Operating System} \begin{itemize} \item File \& print \item Application Server \item E-Mail \item Internet Access \item Intranet Services \end{itemize} Linux can be configured to provide all the above on the single server. NT would require 3 separate dedicated servers for e-mail,RDBMS and File \& print and Intanet Linux comes bundled with all the software needed for all these NT requires separate products to provide e-mail \& Internet access(Exchange and IIS ). File and print is provided with base OS. Linux can be customized to the needs of the user. \footnote{ The price comparison is given on page 94 of the march 99 PCQ ( the same one which carried the 5.2 CD-ROM)} \section{Successful Linux Installations in India and around the world} ToDo \end{document} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 17:03:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 22:33:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: References: <20010809145924.A11542@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: <20010809223358.A1534@debianut.ekmnet> [Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 04:14:12PM +0530] Rajkumar S. : > taking such fundamentalist positions has a chance > to do more harm that good. Yours is a naive stand which is not going to do us any good. Can you ever think of winning the battle without the *freedom* shield, forget about winning the war ? We are going to stress more on the Freedom aspect in the letter we are going to send to the West Bengal Govt. We are going to articulate the position espoused by Pappu/Khuzaima and of Raju's well trashed out technical aspects. Khuzaima and Pappu have debated out the basic and ethical stand of the GNU, the positions for which RMS has stood for and shown us. This fundamentalist position has a chance to do us more good in the long run and is going to win us the war..... > Can you come up with a text to be included in Raju's > letter about freedom ? Maybe you should also chip in and get the letter out fast. We have to get our act together, before these M$ guys take out the Bengalee sahibs out for a treat at the Presidency ;-) Can we ever hope to match these M$ guys in their PR work ? So, Raju's letter would be about *freedom* and the technical superiority model brought about by its open-ness. > When the term Open Source is included it actually does > imply that Free Software movement and Open Source > movement are similar but different Can you say what the Open Source movement stand for ? No goal, "shunyam". These Open source guys have already started groping in the dark, not knowing what to say in reply to M$ attack on the GPL. We shall in no way include the word 'Open Source' in our letter. Please understand that the M$ guys are going/have already prepared to attack the GNU and the GNU GPL in the corridors of the Bengal Vidhan Sabha. The Open Source guys have got no 'arm-parts' to be trampled on.....we in the *free software* movement are going to be hurt more :( > So why remove it It has to be removed. The Free Software movement is different and we have to make this very clear. We shall not lend our signatures to a document/petition which includes the word 'Open Source'. > FSF should always co-operate with other like minded orgs > where ever possible with out loosing its individuality. The FSF should do things individualistic-ally; if the Open Source guys come around wanting to co-operate with us...good. All of us walk the last mile together....Freedom First ! -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 18:01:32 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:31:32 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <20010809223358.A1534@debianut.ekmnet> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Raghavendra Bhat wrote: > Yours is a naive stand which is not going to do us any good. Can > you ever think of winning the battle without the *freedom* shield, > forget about winning the war ? I was just referring to some statements by pappu which I quoted, not against the freedom. Sorry if my mail caused confusion. > This fundamentalist position has a chance to do us more good in > the long run and is going to win us the war..... The stance of FSF is not fundamentalist, it is ethical. but if we take any ethical stance too far it becomes fundamentalist and that has to be checked. > Maybe you should also chip in and get the letter out fast. We have > to get our act together I have mailed one letter which has touched some of the points which were missing from Raju's letter like the open standards, meaning of Free, Perils of a Monopoly etc. I will add more. > We shall not lend our signatures to a document/petition which > includes the word 'Open Source'. > The FSF should do things individualistic-ally; I do not know if such a position is good for us. May be it is..... raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 19:03:27 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Hannu Puttonen) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 22:03:27 +0300 (EEST) Subject: [FSF India] Gnu/Linux film Message-ID: Hi. I´m Hannu Puttonen, a Finnish film director and writer from Helsinki. I have just completed a one hour long documentary film on Gnu/Linux, open source & free software movement. It is called The Code and includes Linus Torvalds, Richard Stallman, Eric Raymond, Alan Cox, Jon 'maddog' Hall, Miguel de Icaza, Alan Cox, Theodore Ts´o, David S. Miller, Andrew Leonard, Robert 'Bob' Young, Larry Augustin and Eric Allman, to mention a few. It´s about the time to show the film for the world, and that is why I send this e-mail. I´ve been in contact with Sarai (Jeebesh Bagchi jeebech@sarai.net), and they are keen on to arrange a few screenings in India for the audiences interested in the topic in question. I can take different formats of the film on video (PAL). VHS and mini-DV anyway. Betacam SP too, if needed. On 17th of September it will be the 10th anniversary of the moment, when Linus Torvalds put his Linux 0.01 -version of the kernel code on Internet from his tiny flat in Helsinki, Finland. I´d like "the world premiere" to be on that day. But not necessarily in my home country, because in a small country (only 5,1 million people in the fifth largest country in Europe) the few local, internationally known celebrities are over-exposed out of all proportions in the media. So has happened with both mr. Torvalds and Gnu/Linux. It is already a known fact, that the real change and possible revolution in terms of Gnu/Linux and the whole free software/open source will happen in the countries like India. The whole IT culture and business in your country looks very interesting from a Finnish point of view (there was a documentary about it on our tv a week ago). So, after completing this film, I´d still like to learn something new about the phenomenon called free software, before starting a new film on something totally different subject matter. So, we are trying to arrange at least that one screening with Sarai in Delhi on 17th of September. The other possible screenings could take place during the same week. My travel expenses will be covered from Finland and back, and I don´t need any fee, but a local accommodation would be fine. Mail me or call me, if you have an interest to arrange for the local people in India an opportunity to see the documentary before anyone else. Yours, Hannu Puttonen Director, writer Bulevardi 34B a6 FIN-00120 Helsinki E-mail: puttonen@kaapeli.fi Mobile: +358-(0)40-558 3086 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 20:24:44 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:54:44 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Modified letter to the Govt. Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ---1463810806-2078030940-997388684=:7561 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all, I have made some modification to Raju's letter. Kindly read them and send your comments. i have the full letter and attaching a diff with the old to see the difference. raj We, the Free Software, Open Source and Electronic Freedom proponents in India are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans to base your complete e-governance infrastructure on a single foreign company's products. The history of Microsoft has shown that it has very little regard for serving any objectives except its own, which does not augur well for the future of in particular and our country in general. We request you to kindly consider the following points before making this relationship permanent: 1. Security. Microsoft products have time and again demonstrated a regrettable lack of basic security features. Recent incidents which have affected a sizeable portion of Microsoft-based servers and client systems on the Internet have served to highlight the fact that Microsoft makes Insecure Products. The Code Red worm (computer virus) infected millions of servers on the Internet in June and August 2001 and coordinated them (without their administrators consent) to simultaneously attack the US White House web site. The affected servers include that of hotmail.com which is owned by Microsoft itself. The worm is still alive though dormant and no one knows exactly where and when it will strike again. Needless to say, this worm only affects computers running Microsoft's most popular web server. The SIRCAM virus which replicates itself using e-mail as the medium has been deemed such a major threat to computing infrastructure that Microsoft and the FBI have taken the unprecedented step of releasing a joint warning notice against it to all computer users in July 2001. Again, the SIRCAM virus only affects e-mail users who use Microsoft's products -- all other software is immune to this threat. These are but two symptoms of the general malaise that Microsoft's products suffer from. Each time a product is fixed using patches from Microsoft, new security holes in the product are uncovered, leading to another wave of infection. In fact, there have been cases of a problem fix from Microsoft uncovering older (previously-fixed) problems and making them active again; there are no signs that these issues will ever be completely resolved. Note to Raju: Can you give a link to the exact incident? 2. Total cost of ownership (TCO) The Total Cost of Ownership of Microsoft's products is much higher than that of other, equivalent, better technologies. Microsoft is already making moves to make licensing valid for only 3 years, so that one has to pay them again at the end of 3 years. This will also make sure that you cannot keep using the old software, but rather be forced to upgrade. Both hardware and software, as the newer software will not run on the old hardware, even if you do want to. This will place an additional burden to cash strapped Govts and more still to schools. In addition hardware requirements for running Microsoft are substantially higher than those of competing products from other sources. In many cases a computer running a competing product will cost half of and handle ten times the load that a computer configuration running Microsoft products would. 3. Internal security Microsoft is a company owned by American citizens, having its base of operations in the USA and subject to US laws. A clear effect of this was evidenced in 1999 when it was discovered that some of the security and cryptography functions built into Microsoft's operating systems were subject to be used by the US National Security Agency (NSA) without explicit permission from either Microsoft or the user of the software. This is one lone ``feature'' of Microsoft software which came to light due to the vigilance of a concerned individual. However it is quite possible (indeed, likely) that there are other ways in which Microsoft products are designed and constructed to permit illegal access by US security agencies. As concerned Indians, we would wish to be secure in the knowledge that the software handling our critical information about Government and individuals will not permit foreign Governments to spy upon, or, even worse, arbitrarily modify it without the consent or knowledge of our elected representatives and the Government machine. This problem is going to increase when the Windows XP comes out. All XP machines will have to be registered online with the Microsoft, and each machine sends data about itself to MS Hq in US. This will enable MS to keep track of the machines that are owned by the Govt. 4. Flexibility India being a unique country it is very likely that we will wish to adapt the software managing our Government information flows to our specific requirements from time to time. With Microsoft products it will not be possible to do this in any sort of time-bound manner, if it is possible at all. For instance, we may want to create cheap Intel 486-based computers for members of the bureaucracy which they can use to access their e-mail. Building such a low-cost computer with Microsoft software would be impossible since the building blocks of the software (the ``source code'', which is the blueprint for the software) is only available with Microsoft. As users, we will not be able to customise and modify the software to our requirements. To take another example, Microsoft is subject to US Government rules which prohibit the export of some forms of strong data encryption and decryption (scrambling and descrambling) technologies to India except under special conditions. As long as we are using Microsoft products, these technologies will not be available to us and we will be forced to use sub-standard, easily breakable techniques to protect our critical data. This is also the case with multi lingual computing. If the Microsoft do not see enough market potential for the language, They will not bother to create a version for that language. Since the source code is closed no one other than Microsoft will be able to add the necessary support. Perils of Monopoly The main revenue source of many companies are the corporate and govt institutions which buys software in large quantities. Business savvy companies will first give away software in a reduced or in a subsidized rate. They are doing this in order to entice the clients in to their net. Buying software is not like buying any other product. It involves along with lot of money a larger investment in the form of training and other custom made software. So once the govt decides on the core OS for the computerization program it cannot change it let us say after 5 or 10 years. At this point we will get to see the real face of the software company. It will then start to act as a typical monopoly since it is very sure that we do not have any other option other than to succumb to its commands. It starts to ask for exorbitant prices for the software upgrades. It will force us to use its other software by changing the protocols of its servers. Microsoft is particularly notorious in this regard. They are known to use their monopoly in one field of computer industry to kill the competition in the other field. An anti trust case is already going on in this regard in the US courts and MS was ordered to pay a huge amount of money to Netscape communications as damages it faced due to the illegal and monopolistic trade practices of Microsoft. Adherence to open standards Internet is used by everybody in the world, using many different products. For these products to interact Internet community has produced some standards. With the help of these open standards (ie any one can get a copy of these stds) any product from any company can interact with any other product from any other company. This is very much like the socket and plug. We are having an open standard in this. Now consider the case of a very big company which makes all electric accessories and sockets. Its sockets are much cheaper to buy but you cannot put any other companies instruments in that socket. Would you buy this socket when you build your home ? No since if you buy this then forever you are bound to buying equipments from the socket producing company. This is same situation faced by the Internet community also. Microsoft is one of the company which is secretly sabotaging the openness of the Internet community. See the the Halloween documents at http://www.opensource.org/halloween. In fact this was evident when they build the UK government's web site. All other browsers except the latest Internet Explorer were locked out from the site. See http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/19239.html for more information. 5. Alternatives Given these facts, we strongly urge you to consider alternative technologies and sources for software for mission- and government-critical functions like State e-governance. The GNU/Linux operating system (sometimes also called just ``Linux'') suffers from none of the defects of Microsoft operating systems and applications detailed above and is already the fastest-growing server operating system in the world today. Linux kernel is a completely Free re-implementation of the POSIX specification, with SYSV and BSD extensions (which means it looks like Unix, but does not come from the same source code base), which is available in both source code and binary form. Its copyright is owned by Linus Torvalds, \url{torvalds@transmeta.com} and other contributors, and is freely redistributable under the terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL). A copy of the GPL is included with the GNU/Linux source; you can also get a copy from \url{ftp://prep.ai.mit.edu/pub/gnu/COPYING} 5.1 Meaning of FREE software GNU/Linux is not public domain, nor is it ``shareware''. It is ``free'' software, and you may give away or sell copies, but you must include the source code or make it available in the same way as any binaries you give or sell. If you distribute any modifications, you are legally bound to distribute the source for those modifications. See the GNU General Public License for details. GNU/Linux is still free as of version 2.4, and will continue to be free. Because of the nature of the GPL to which GNU/Linux is subject, it would be illegal for it to be made not free. Note carefully: the ``free'' part involves access to the source code rather than money; it is perfectly legal to charge money for distributing GNU/Linux, so long as you also distribute the source code. Their are many implications for this free access to the source code. These do not matter much for an individual but when a government is using this it assumes serious proportions. ****More needs to come here.**** Some of the features of GNU/Linux which make it a viable and desirable component of any Government infrastructure are: - GNU/Linux has not to date been subject to any virus attacks anywhere near the severity of the worms and virii which are infecting Microsoft systems on a nearly daily basis. - The operating system itself and all the applications required to build a safe, secure and efficient infrastructure are available free of cost and can even be downloaded from the Internet. The hardware configuration of systems required to run GNU/Linux is much lower than that of corresponding systems required to run Microsoft products. There is no fee at all -- neither one-time nor recurring -- for using GNU/Linux. - The source code for the operating system and applications is available for perusal and modification. Using GNU/Linux, the Government can be assured that there are they are not at the mercy of any foreign government which can arm-twist Microsoft into putting hidden back-doors into their products. The Government can also give this assurance to the electorate. - Since the source code (i.e. the building blocks) of GNU/Linux is Freely available, the Government can, if it so chooses, modify, extend and customise the software for its specific requirements. For instance, it is quite feasible to replace existing encryption techniques in GNU/Linux with those certified by the DRDO, leading to much better and auditable levels of security. Such enhancements are not possible with Microsoft software. - Many national governments have blacklisted Microsoft products and specifically selected GNU/Linux to host applications managing and monitoring State and Central functions. We request you to critically consider any decision to purchase Microsoft products in the light of the information given above, and to give serious consideration to using alternative technologies which have a much lower cost, are more reliable and secure, and can be easily enhanced to fit in with our national objectives. ---1463810806-2078030940-997388684=:7561 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name=diff Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=diff MjFjMjENCjwgSW50ZXJuZXQgaW4gSnVuZSBhbmQgQXVndXN0IDIwMDEgYW5k IGNvb3JkaW5hdGVkIHRoZW0gKHdpdGhvdXQgdGhlaXINCi0tLQ0KPiBJbnRl cm5ldCBpbiBKdW5lIDIwMDEgYW5kIGNvb3JkaW5hdGVkIHRoZW0gKHdpdGhv dXQgdGhlaXINCjIzLDI3YzIzLDMyDQo8IHdlYiBzaXRlLiBUaGUgYWZmZWN0 ZWQgc2VydmVycyBpbmNsdWRlIHRoYXQgb2YgaG90bWFpbC5jb20gd2hpY2gg aXMNCjwgb3duZWQgYnkgTWljcm9zb2Z0IGl0c2VsZi4gVGhlIHdvcm0gaXMg c3RpbGwgYWxpdmUgdGhvdWdoIGRvcm1hbnQgYW5kDQo8IG5vIG9uZSBrbm93 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IHNlY3VyaXR5LiAgU3VjaCBlbmhhbmNlbWVudGUgYXJlDQo= ---1463810806-2078030940-997388684=:7561-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 9 23:22:18 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 04:52:18 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: References: <20010809223358.A1534@debianut.ekmnet> Message-ID: <20010810045218.A954@debianut.ekmnet> [Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:31:32PM +0530] Rajkumar S. : > but if we take any ethical stance too far it becomes > fundamentalist and that has to be checked. The ethical bedrock anchors our foundation and we can never dilute it for your/xyz's liking. So your suggestion of a check on this is downright flawed. -- GPG: 1024D/3FD6C75E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 6 07:18:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Prakash Advani) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:48:58 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re: [LIG] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <01080612485801.00795@krishna> Dear Raju, This is execellent if everyone can send out this document to their respective state goverments. I hope modifications to the documents are allowed and encouraged GPL ? ;-) I would also recommend you add something about localisation issues. In case of Proprietory operating systems localisation is decided by the company only if they see $$$$ coming in not in the interest of the people. Where as in case of GNU/Linux anyone can add the Indian Language layer depending on the needs. In fact all the localisation efforts so far have been started with Goverments funds (CDAC/NCST). By putting their efforts GNU/Linux they funds would be better utilised. Regards Prakash On Sunday 05 August 2001 12:23, Raju Mathur wrote: > Here's a prototype letter which can be sent to any State government > which plans to tie-up with MS for e-governance. I am making it as > general-purpose as possible so that more people are willing to sign > it: this is not a time for family squabbles. I'd appreciate any > additions/enhancements which can be made to this letter. URL's > highlighting the points discussed would also be a great idea. Not > being an activist, I cannot suggest the proper methods for getting > this letter signed and circulated to the right authorities. > _______________________________________________ Linux-india-general mailing list Linux-india-general@lists.sourceforge.net http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-india-general From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 02:41:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:11:08 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] One more template letter to the Govt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15219.18884.181097.46116@mail.linux-delhi.org> Hi Rajkumar, Great document. I specially liked the parts about incompatible standards and document archiving, and in retrospect wish I'd included those in my original document :-) Can still do so if enough people feel that they're relevant (at the risk of raising some more hackles among the community and blood pressure at my end ;-) Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "Rajkumar" == Rajkumar S writes: Rajkumar> Hi all, I am attaching one more letter which was drafted Rajkumar> quite some time back for the Govt of Kerala by the then Rajkumar> Trivandrum "Linux" user group. I guess it has some Rajkumar> important points we can add to the Raju's letter. Rajkumar> Please understand that this is quite old letter and some Rajkumar> facts may be outdated. Rajkumar> raj Rajkumar> \documentclass[a4paper,12pt]{article} Rajkumar> \usepackage{hyperref} %\usepackage{garamond} Rajkumar> \begin{document} Rajkumar> \section{TODO ( not in the order of importance)} Rajkumar> \begin{enumerate} \item Support options \item Training Rajkumar> \item A profile about the business practices of Bill Rajkumar> Gates and MS \end {enumerate} Rajkumar> \section{Introduction} On 8th June there was a news item Rajkumar> in the press stating, as part of computerisation in Rajkumar> different institutions under the Govt of Kerala, the Rajkumar> Public sector undertaking C-DIT had made contract with Rajkumar> the Microsoft Corp India Ltd. It will be a huge project Rajkumar> involving large amount of money and having long term Rajkumar> effects. In fact the project can be implemented with Rajkumar> lesser cost using a technologically superior product Rajkumar> named Linux. Rajkumar> [snip] -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 03:57:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 10 Aug 2001 09:27:08 +0530 Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <000c01c11cf7$2c04daa0$0cc96565@dreammachine> <1143.192.168.0.2.996942864.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> <15212.60807.40311.662078@mail.linux-delhi.org> <86y9ovkxtn.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <15216.51792.497926.130283@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <863d70va7f.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Hi, There were other things which I wanted to say before I lost my balance yesterday. Please bear with me: > The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which > cannot be debated away. I think I mentioned in an earlier post about the well-oiled and efficient marketing machine at MS's disposal. They employ some of the best (albeit, misguided) brains in the business whose *full time* job is to debate these "hard facts" about security, flexibility, total cost etc. It is a well-known fact, even more well-known in OUR community, that Microsoft reached where it did not because of any technical merit but entirely on its marketing merits. They will depute their best marketing guys to refute all these hard facts and convince the civil servants (or even ministers) that their product is in fact better! Don't expect the poor civil servant to differentiate fact from FUD. Microsoft is the *MASTER* of these techniques. We *cannot* beat them at their own game. Organisations having far more resources then us, and having far superior products then Microsoft's, have tried this game and failed. Just stressing on GNU/Linux's technical superiority, flexibility, security etc is not only insufficient, but *futile*! If, at this late stage when the WB Government has apparently already decided to go ahead with its tie-up with MS, we cannot convince them *solely* on the basis of the *philosophy* of Free Software, on the basis of *Freedom*, then let it be so. One state lost to MS, one battle lost. But let us not fall into this trap of discussing only the "hard facts". If tomorrow, another state decides to tie up with, say, Adobe or Oracle, are we going to write up another document describing all the "technical demerits" of their software vis-a-vis Free Software alternatives? You see the futility of this approach? You see how "knee-jerk" it is? It will simply constantly keep us on our toes without achieving anything. It will magnify every small battle into a large unfightable one. I would like to address all the "practical" folks out there. The only practical approach to fighting proprietary software is the one based on *freedom*. You don't even have to be an "idealist" to appreciate this. It is so obvious! Instead of expending our energies writing individual anti-MS, anti-Adobe, anti-Oracle etc. letters of questionable value, let us endeavour to write one generic anti-proprietary-software letter addressed to Governments, describing all the ills of proprietary software and all the benefits (in their entirety) of Free Software. Let us not wait till another State Government decides to tie up with another proprietary software company before we send this letter. Let us draft it and send it now! Most of the material required for such a letter can be easily gleaned from the FSF web site. - Khuzaima Raju Mathur writes: > Khuzaima, > > While I agree that freedom is the most important facet of Free > Software, I deliberately omitted mentioning it in the letter. If you > notice, I have tried to stay away from any of the following: > > - Controversial issues (e.g. MS' ongoing court case(s)) > - Un-verifiable data > - Philosophy > - Opinions > > The idea was to create a document which would present hard facts which > cannot be debated away. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 05:09:09 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:39:09 +0530 (IST) Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: <863d70va7f.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: On 10 Aug 2001, Khuzaima A. Lakdawala wrote: > letters of questionable value, let us endeavour to write one > generic anti-proprietary-software letter Can you write that and send the draft to the list raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 05:11:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 10 Aug 2001 10:41:52 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Modified letter to the Govt. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86ofpo7b3b.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> > The history of Microsoft has shown that it has > very little regard for serving any objectives except its own That is the history of most multinational corporations. This is a "virtue" of global capitalism. This is far beyond the ambit of the Free Software movement. The above may be changed to: The history of Microsoft has shown that it has nothing but contempt for its users' rights. By going ahead with your tie-up and subsequently accepting Microsoft's licensing agreement, you will be surrendering some of the rights which are otherwise guaranteed to us by our Constitution. Considering that it is the Governments *duty* to protect the constitutional rights of its citizens, it is unthinkable that the Government *itself* would surrender some of these rights to a foreign corporation. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 05:13:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:43:56 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [ARTICLE] Mark Summerfield : A Letter From 2020 Message-ID: Letter from 2020 By Mark Summerfield 9/18/00 Dear Me, I'm not sure if reading this letter is illegal. I thought it only fair to warn you; it might be better to just destroy it. The actual writing has been a bit of a chore. Word.NET isn't what it used to be. Even Microsoft.NET couldn't afford to patent everything, so whilst I can do Find, there's no Replace anymore. One good thing about having only one legal operating system is that it's very stable. I'm glad they never update Windows.NET; anyone can live with three or four crashes a day and the hourly rent is less than I pay for my apartment. I try to remember what it was like when I was a kid but it's really difficult; the world has changed so much since then. I found a paper book the other day that described the rise and fall of something called the "Internet". It started out with people putting up links on computers so that they could follow the link and read things on other computers for free. After it got to be popular, companies started to create machines with lots of links that you could search to find things of interest. But someone put up a link to something illegal and got sued and had their machine shut down. This happened a few times and people started to take the links off their machines. The search engine companies were the first to go and without them, you couldn't find anything. Eventually no one put up links anymore because the legal risk was too great. The important thing is that it reduced terrorism. I'm not sure how it could have worked anyway. Anything I write on my computer or any music I create gets stored by Word.NET and Music.NET in encrypted formats to protect my privacy. No one but me, Microsoft.NET and the National Corporation can read or hear my stuff even if they could link to it. I shouldn't admit it, but sometimes I go to certain places and speak to the subversives. I know its wrong but their warped views on things have some kind of morbid fascination. For example, I spoke to someone who claimed to be a historian the other day. She had courage all right, admitting to an illegal activity like that. I hadn't understood why it was illegal until she explained. History, she told me, gives you context. You can compare today with some time in the past; ask questions like, "are people better off", "look at the different forms of doing business", "compare corporate records or the rights of citizens" (I think she meant employees). But what interested her was that future generations will know nothing about us; all our records and art are stored digitally, most of it will simply disappear when no one rents it anymore -- remember the sadness when the last digital copy of Sgt. Pepper was accidentally erased? And the data that does survive will all be encrypted and in proprietary formats anyway -- even if there were historians they'd have no right to reverse engineer the formats. I can vaguely remember that people used to have physical copies of music and films, although I'm not sure how that was possible, or what the point was when we can rent whatever we like from the air interface. I don't think it matters that those who come after us can't read our writings or hear our music or see our films; these things are temporal anyway, if no one rents them then they can't be worth keeping. The saddest subversive I met claimed to be a programmer. He said that he was writing a program using Basic.NET. He must have been insane. Even if his program worked he wouldn't be allowed to run it. How could one person possibly check every possible patent infringement in a program they wrote? And even if he hadn't infringed he couldn't sell it without buying a compatibility license from Microsoft.NET and who could possibly afford that? He had said something about gippling the software, which apparently means giving it away, but mad as he was, even he knew that under WUCITA that would be illegal. These subversives really don't seem to understand that a few restrictions are necessary for the sake of innovation. And progress has been made. We don't have spam since most people can't afford an email license due to the expensive patent royalties. Our computer systems all have the same operating system, user interface and applications so everyone knows how to use them, and although they crash and don't work very well, we all know the limitations and can live with them. We have no piracy of intellectual property since we rent it as we want it and have no means of storing it. It was the USA that showed the world the way of course. First the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, then more and more software patents. The Japanese followed suit. The Europeans were a problem, which is only to be expected, with their anti-business un-Christian socialist tendencies. Fortunately, common sense prevailed, helped along by the good old dollar I've no doubt and they accepted both software patents and a redefinition of copyright to suit global corporations. Once the USA, Japan and Europe had uniform intellectual property laws to protect our corporations and our way of life, everyone else had to play ball or they couldn't trade. The result has been that every algorithm and computer program and every piece of music and film (after all music and film can be put into digital form and are therefore a form of software) have been patented. No more variations on Beethoven (unless you've got the patentees approval). No more amateur participation in music or film which might risk lowering standards. No more challenge to established business and business practices. I'm crazy to have written I know. But I am so happy in the world and I remember how unhappy I used to be. I wanted to somehow pass back to you the knowledge that its all going to be okay, that the world really is getting better. Sincerely, Mark. (c) 2000 Triad Commerce Group, LLC. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 05:30:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:00:56 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [Q&A] Gates and Dertouzos Message-ID: Titans Talk Tech : Bill G. and Michael D. Michael Dertouzos and Bill Gates ponder open-source software and the future of the computing industry. DERTOUZOS: It is ironic to me that in the United States, the bastion of capitalism, where people have given of their work lives and capital to create a huge industrial economy, we are now asked to surrender the very same factors of production -- our labor and our capital -- to develop software that will be open and free for all. I do see some qualified benefits to open software, but I wanted to get your views on the big picture before going any deeper. GATES: Most of the people and companies that create intellectual property will continue to want to get some payment for it, as with any creative area. The beauty of all intellectual property compared to physical property is that there is no marginal cost of production. The world benefits immensely from this, whether it's from a great book or a new drug or a new piece of software. There are fixed costs, so most work will cost something, but for software sold on a high-volume low-price model the price is very small compared to the value. There's always been a role for open-source software, and there always will be. Free software has been around for a long time. Likewise there is commercial software where the source is easy to access so the pricing and the source availability are two different things. Ideally, software should be componentized enough that you could extend it without having to read and rebuild the source code of the product. For any software to gain widespread acceptance and use to be popular with consumers and corporate customers it has to possess the infrastructure and support that make it efficient and easy to deploy. So just as the car became popular only when there was a network of gas stations, repair shops, dealerships, paved roads and so on, the same is true for software and most other products. The role of common standards in intellectual property is central here. Thanks to a common operating system standard -- Windows -- a whole industry got created, one that employs more than five million people worldwide. When both hardware companies and independent software vendors have a common standard to work with, the end result is enormous choice for consumers. Open-source software's strength is massive customization but this works against consistency. Consumers don't know what to expect when they load the software; corporate customers find it hard to stay current as each version is customized; developers don't get a volume market because there are multiple flavors of the same product. A lot of software that started out as university software -- like browsers -- transitioned to become commercial software when customers asked for rich features and broad support. In the case of browsers they stayed free because of the advertising value and additional demand for complementary products that they create. DERTOUZOS: I agree with you that there is a role for all three -- commercial, open, and free software -- and add to the list another important benefit of open software : It accumulates for everyone's use code contributed by many programmers. But what of commercial software, that has the potential of becoming a standard for millions of people? To be used widely, it will be given away initially, and sold later when it has taken hold. In the long term, after the software has stabilized and returned its development cost and a good profit, software developers may find it increasingly difficult to charge for it. I suspect that such software, and maybe most software, will, after a commercial period, become very low-cost, and in some cases, even free. Do you think this is likely? GATES: One of the key characteristics of the software industry is that, because of incredibly rapid technological change, products must be continuously modified to reflect innovations. For example, software will need to change to support speech input, which will be fantastic for users. So development costs are ongoing. With the high-volume, low-cost model adopted by Microsoft and the PC software industry, such costs are spread widely, so consumers pay a very low price to benefit from billions of dollars of R&D. The key is in value and utility -- if consumers get both, they will be willing to pay for them and, if the software is good enough, it will be used widely from the outset. So the world you are describing already exists : Consumers already get an amazing amount of functionality from their software at a very low cost. Contrast the old proprietary computing model, where software accounted for a high proportion of system cost, with the PC model, where software is only a tiny percentage of overall cost. That comparison makes much of today's PC software seem almost free. DERTOUZOS: In the commercial period, when the software is still evolving, a successful strategy for maintaining revenue is, increasingly, the annual upgrade, which, incidentally, adds to the "feature shock" of users. This practice, together with an evolving Web, suggests that we'll move from buying shrink-wrapped software to simply buying upgrades through periodic downloads at a monthly fee. Do you see Microsoft and other software developers becoming such "service" organizations? GATES: Regular upgrades are clearly necessary in an industry that is changing as fast as the software business -- just as they are in, say, the auto industry. I can't ever imagine a time when software will not continue to evolve in this way. With the high-volume, low-cost model, you have to make the software as attractive as possible to as many computer users as possible, and that means lots of features. And clearly not all of them will be used by every buyer. But in general I think you are right that, in order to "hide" the complexity and adaptability of software from the average user, upgrades will increasingly be carried out transparently and automatically, without users having to do anything. So rather than having to ensure that your software is always up-to-date, the software will do it for you -- you'll wake up in the morning and the latest version of the software will have been installed overnight. To that extent, software will evolve into even more of a service business than it already is, and in the long term there will probably be a move toward a subscription-style model. DERTOUZOS: Browsers and operating systems will merge in functionality, simply because people need to have the same commands for dealing with information, regardless of whether it is local or distant. On this, you and I agree. However, we disagree on how to get there: I dream of a system built from scratch that gets rid of layers of old software and brings a new truly easy-to-use metaphor to the Web-centric world, as important as the desktop was earlier. I believe that you want to get there gradually, by upgrading Windows. Recall that the Web itself was created by a small team of people, yet ended up on millions of computers. Could something like that happen here, with a new system that might spring out of nowhere? Would you consider replacing your own baby, ahead of a competitive threat, with a brand-new, simple, super-efficient browser-operating system? GATES: Whenever a new word is added to a computer language or a new feature to an operating system there is a question of whether it would be better to start from scratch. We actually did start from scratch with Windows NT and I am sure we will do so again. In the meantime, we are evolving every version of our operating system. We have made the browser and HTML the primary display language, replacing the old style help and folder display. There are new operating systems that integrate the browser like BeOS but none have done as much as Windows has. For every new advance there will be many new competitors, including people who compete with a whole new operating system and people who compete using middleware to run on top of the operating system. If we do our job well, giving people the new capabilities and compatibility, we can make a big contribution. With Windows running on well over 200 million computers worldwide, we constantly think about the customer base and how we get them from here to there. A lot of the "layers of old software" you refer to do get eliminated we're constantly stripping out redundant code or replacing it with faster ways of doing what the old code did. DERTOUZOS: The millions of users of all operating systems and browsers, worldwide, appreciate the need for system stability. Yet the incremental changes that have ensured it have also led to today's difficult-to-use systems and I mean the systems of all software developers, without exception. Novices and experts alike kneel (I sometimes even cry) as we try to fend off a tangle of intertwined lizards and thousands of moving parts within these systems and the many applications that use them until we luck in on a fix. We'll have to clean up this mess if we are to provide the true ease of use that will enable people to achieve the 300 percent productivity gains we envision in the 21st century. People will have to rise above battling low-level details, to access the knowledge they need, collaborate with others, customize their systems to their own human needs and automate their own repetitive tasks. I think the time has come to bridge local and distant computation and support these much-needed capabilities in a new breed of system; applications will then be freed up to use all this new power in medicine, education, business, recreation, commerce and so on. I can't see us getting there incrementally. GATES: The danger here is that we may simply dismiss the progress that the computer software and hardware industries have already made. Twenty years ago nobody used a computer unless they were a hobbyist or employed by a corporate IT department. Now, even a child can use a PC to carry out computing tasks that were actually beyond the capabilities of those 1970s IT departments. We've already seen huge gains in productivity as a result of the PC, and enormous strides in education, medicine, recreation and commerce. Four years ago you couldn't buy a book online; now you can buy almost anything online. And the gulf between remote and local computers is already being bridged, both by the Web and by other networking technologies. Clearly, we're only at the start of the Digital Age, and our future progress will undoubtedly dwarf our past achievements. But we shouldn't underestimate how far we've already come. We also shouldn't underestimate how much work remains to be done. Simplicity is a key goal, but it's a constantly moving target. Both hardware and software are constantly becoming ever more sophisticated, we want to add more and different types of devices to our computers, and we want all this to work perfectly and easily and be simple to upgrade too. Plus we're trying to drive computer usage toward less-technical consumers deep into the mass market. And that's a huge challenge for the industry, but one we undoubtedly have to meet if we are to drive future growth. DERTOUZOS: The Agrarian Revolution with its plow, the Industrial Revolution with its steam engine and the Information Revolution with its computer have all improved our economic lives. Maybe the time has come for a new revolution, not about things, but about the most precious resource on this planet -- ourselves? What role and purpose do you see for human beings in the Information Age? GATES: I'm very optimistic about the role of human beings in the Information Age, because this is an era where people their knowledge, and their ability to put that knowledge to work will be more important than ever before. There are great dangers to thinking that just because manual labor -- whether on the land or in factories -- is playing a relatively smaller role in wealth creation, then people are also playing a smaller role. In fact, the Information Age is enabling people who were previously forced to pursue a single means of wealth creation those, for example, who lived in remote areas had no option but to work on the land to choose from a far wider range of work. Technology such as the PC, the Internet and cheap telecommunications have brought amazing mobility to the factors of production. The Information Age has brought people together in even more fundamental ways. The increasing speed and flow of information has opened up closed economies and helped democratize the most repressive regimes. You can close geographic borders but you can't build effective borders in cyberspace. So technology is giving people more freedom, and the power to do more with that freedom. And technology will never replace the wonders of human interaction no matter how good PCs get at recognizing voice or handwriting, they'll never read body language or smile back at you. DERTOUZOS: I fully share your views and optimism on human beings and the future uses of the technologies we are developing. However, I am concerned about a split that started 300 years ago in the Enlightenment that busted up faith and reason, man and nature, which until that time were united. The liberation of reason caused science to blossom and led to the Industrial Revolution, which made our part of the world wealthy. By now, this split has taken hold, and each of us goes through life in a compartment, labeled technologist or humanist, rational or spiritual, logical or emotional. I don't see the Information Revolution curing this split. It may even aggravate it by increasing our reliance on virtual encounters and machine knowledge. Meanwhile, the world around us is becoming explosively complex with a myriad of intertwined challenges and problems that straddle these divisions and cannot be handled with such partial mind sets. To cope with this new world, but also to enrich ourselves, I believe we need to unite our divided selves and try to become whole again. That's what I mean by a fourth revolution aimed at understanding, beyond things, ourselves. Any thoughts along these lines? GATES: If the Information Revolution did lead to a reliance on virtual encounters and machine knowledge, then I would agree with you. In reality, though, the computer is increasingly a gateway to knowledge, to the arts, to new cultures, and so on, that were simply not accessible before. It is creating communities that, far from being mere virtual entities, serve as the foundation for real relationships. So to the extent that the computer can link people with knowledge and cultures and each other more efficiently than any other past technology, it can help push them toward healing the rift you see. But technology is only a Toland, like all tools, its effectiveness depends on the skill and intentions of the user. In the end, you have to put your faith in human nature. If you think the invention of the book was bad, then you will feel the same way about the changes that are coming. If the book was a good thing, then these advances carry the empowerment even further. DERTOUZOS: I agree with you on this last point: The angels and the devils are definitely within us, not within the machines we use. And so are our divided selves. That's why I view this as a human problem in need of a human revolution. Speaking of human problems, I believe that left to its own devices, the new world of information will increase the gap between rich and poor people, simply because computers make the rich more productive and hence richer, while the poor are standing still. Do you agree? GATES: The power of cheap software and cheap computing has brought enormous economic power to millions of people who in the past lacked it. It has helped democratize nations and economies around the world. It is bringing about the death of distance, as high-speed telecommunications link people, companies and countries faster and cheaper than ever before. And while this Information Revolution hasn't yet reached deeply into the poorest regions of the world, it will look at what is happening in India and China, for example. The Industrial Age did in many ways bypass poorer countries; the Information Age actually gives those countries a chance to compete on equal footing with richer countries. In fact many of the poorer countries have a comparative advantage in that they can now leverage their cheaper labor around the world not just locally using the power of the PC, the Internet and cheap telecommunications. The poor are not standing still; they are catching up faster than they ever did in the Industrial Age. DERTOUZOS: I share the view that the poor could rise out of poverty, by using the new world of information to learn how to read and write, take care of their health, cultivate the land, and acquire language and other skills that they may use to sell services in the information marketplace. However, for this to happen, the poor will need communications, workstations and training all of which cost a great deal, and therefore cannot materialize spontaneously. The people you allude to, in Bangalore and elsewhere, who deliver software services over the Net, speak English and know how to program. They are but a drop in the ocean of six billion people on Earth, barely 2 percent of whom are interconnected. My point is that all the benefits that we envision will not become available to the poor if we leave the Information Revolution to its own devices. We need to take an active role as individuals, companies and governments of the industrially rich world to help the poor ascend along this path. How can you disagree, in light of all you have done along these lines? GATES: Unfortunately, the benefits of every new technology tend to trickle down slowly. Even the earliest tools of the communications revolution the auto, the airplane, the telephone have yet to benefit some poorer parts of the world. But what will clearly help the spread of information technology is the amazing speed at which computing costs have dropped, along with information technology's ability to break down borders. We're already seeing examples of how cheap PCs can transform companies and government agencies in poorer countries, and the benefits of these changes feed directly to the population. But generally, you are right: companies and individuals in rich countries will have to contribute technology and cash to kick-start a truly global Information Revolution. I am a big believer in philanthropy, and I'm excited about the impact it can have. I think it is also important to consider priorities. I have chosen to focus on making sure that children in poor countries get access to vaccines so they can live a healthy life. This has to come before making sure they have access to computers. I have put more than $6 billion into my two foundations because of my enthusiasm for taking the great advances in medicine and information technology and giving more people access. We can do some great things here. DERTOUZOS: I wish other people and organizations would follow your philanthropic lead. And thanks for this enjoyable and informative discussion. ============================================================== From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 14:39:19 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:09:19 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] SOVEREIGN STATUS OF INDIA Message-ID: <3B73F217.214320C8@eth.net> Dear brothers and sisters Dear brothers and sisters, Kindly refer to the End User License Agreement (EULA) comes with microsoft products. I had gone through the ELUA of Microsoft Windows 98. It is clearly mentioned that the Software product is licensed, not sold. Please check up with other other Microsoft product. Government using software products and/or anything that requires a licence from a third party is a challenge to the SOVEREIGN status of INDIA and so is violation of THE CONSTITUTION OF INDIA. We must approach a court of law and retain the SOVEREIGN status of INDIA in accordance with our CONSTITUTION. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 10 14:32:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Anil Kumar) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 07:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] SOVEREIGN STATUS OF INDIA In-Reply-To: <3B73F217.214320C8@eth.net> Message-ID: Excellent point. This should be mentioned with due importance in FSF promotional materials prepared for India with enough references to substantiate it. On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, M Balakrishna Pillai wrote: > Dear brothers and sisters > Dear brothers and sisters, > > Kindly refer to the End User License Agreement (EULA) comes with > microsoft products. I had gone through the ELUA of Microsoft Windows > 98. It is clearly mentioned that the Software product is licensed, not > sold. Please check up with other other Microsoft product. > > > Government using software products and/or anything that requires a > licence from a third party is a challenge to the SOVEREIGN status of > INDIA and so is violation of THE CONSTITUTION OF INDIA. > > We must approach a court of law and retain the SOVEREIGN status of INDIA > in accordance with our CONSTITUTION. > > M.Balakrishna Pillai > _______________________________________________ > http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india > -- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 02:12:39 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 07:42:39 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [Q&A] Gates and Dertouzos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 at 11:00, Raj Singh wrote: Titans Talk Tech : Bill G. and Michael D. [...] Raj, Please be kind enough to restrain yourself from posting large chunks of quoted text to this list. Many users have by this time privately written to me to take some steps to prevent this. While we all believe in the freedom of expression and sharing of knowledge, this should seldom be construed as a licence to thrust upon unsolicited material on others in the pretext of the highest ideals of freedom and sharing. Your quest for sharing information with the community is all the more appreciated, but should you stoop to the level of spamming is a questionable thing, especially when internet provides for sharing information with least effort and resources by the simple intimation of the related URL. It might also be remembered that the search engines are at the disposal of all the subscribers in this list as you. Please dont take on the burden of teaching the community singularly on your shoulders, for, your shoulders will simply not bear it. Obviously, you need a thorough introspection of your strategies of community service. Dont get offended with the above, you make me reminded that I'm an old man mentally and chronologically.:) -- Radhakrishnan List Owner From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 07:26:17 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (K G Kumar) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:56:17 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Raj Singh's posts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010811124837.02e747f0@mail.myiris.com> --=======471F259======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7367626F; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed At 07:42 AM 8/11/01 +0530, Radi wrote: >Many users have by this time privately >written to me to take some steps to prevent this. Equally, there are others who have silently welcomed Raj Singh's posts which I, for one, find useful and informative. And is it really such a deluge as to clog up bandwidth? And terming his posts "spam" is a mite unfair. For those who don't agree, isn't it just a matter of deleting or filtering his posts? --=======471F259======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-7367626F Content-Disposition: inline --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/01 --=======471F259=======-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 07:37:09 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:07:09 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Raj Singh's posts In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010811124837.02e747f0@mail.myiris.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 at 12:56, K G Kumar wrote: At 07:42 AM 8/11/01 +0530, Radi wrote: >Many users have by this time privately >written to me to take some steps to prevent this. Equally, there are others who have silently welcomed Raj Singh's posts which I, for one, find useful and informative. And is it really such a deluge as to clog up bandwidth? And Yes, an average post is 5K multiplied by 200 subscribers, again multiplied by 5 posts a day raising the mailserver load to 5000 K of 1000 mails in all. Cant this be reduced to 1K post with all five URL's which means 200K and 200 mails which serves the purpose well enough? KG: do you find the difference now? terming his posts "spam" is a mite unfair. For those who don't Perceptions differ, but verbatim quoting of whole documents already available in the internet is obviously not the optimal usage of the net and is aimed at spoiling the bandwidth, subscribers' diskspace that might derive juvenile pleasure for the poster. agree, isn't it just a matter of deleting or filtering his posts? True, people will be doing the very same thing, but even for that one has to pay to the ISP and DOT. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 08:36:19 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Mohit Agarwal) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 14:06:19 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Raj Singh's posts Message-ID: Today AT 12:56 +0530, K G Kumar wrote: > At 07:42 AM 8/11/01 +0530, Radi wrote: > >Many users have by this time privately > >written to me to take some steps to prevent this. > > Equally, there are others who have silently welcomed Raj Singh's > posts which I, for one, find useful and informative. And is it Well, it's not fair to conclude that those were silent did welcome his posts[*]. They were silent, after all, and you never know what was going on inside their *THICK* heads. > really such a deluge as to clog up bandwidth? And terming his posts IM(NS)HO, *YES*. > "spam" is a mite unfair. For those who don't agree, isn't it just a > matter of deleting or filtering his posts? Nice idea, thanks! Procmail is great, and GPL'd too ;-) mohit [*] Including the entire text in a message, esp. when it's available on the internet, is not a wise thing to do. And it becomes really foolish if somebody repeats it after being requested not to do so. You'll find several messages in the archives where somebody would just mention the URL, and that's it; e.g. http://gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-india/2001-August/000311.html and many more .. Quoting the entire text is not a bright idea. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 10:02:10 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Parag Mehta) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 03:02:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Raj Singh's posts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, my 2 cents : you cannot say the person is spamming. well the only thing here is the person should understand how valuable the bandwidth is. also the person should have some netiquettes. well i would suggest if there could be s et of list guidelines that can be put forth to the lsit and also as part of the welcome mail. if a user fails to follow the list rules he is banned from the list or something like that. i think for list rules Raju Manthur can forward the lig/lih list rules. best regards, parag mehta #exclude From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 10:52:47 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:22:47 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] HELP SOUGHT: Software for reading clubs... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear FSF-Indiaers: This may be a tall order. Was wondering if one could get some help from anyone on this list to build a small software program to help us with our tiny Magazines Initiative, a not-for-profit venture that is carried on here on a voluntary basis. This Initiative seeks to put local schools and clubs in touch with potential supporters abroad, who would donate about $100 per year (to any school or club of their choice) to enable the latter to get access to useful magazines. We calculate that with a $100 equivalent donation, any school can subscribe to 25-27 magazines each month, for one full year. This means that the students or club members have access to a wide range of quality reading material (general knowledge, science education, current affairs, news magazines, sports, even IT mags without CDs). The end goal is to widen the reading habit locally and give people access to useful and inexpensive information in this information-driven age. We are still at an early stage of the project. It has been going on intermittently for the past two years. So far, about half a dozen schools have been covered. Due to the considerable paperwork involved, it is difficult to replicate this scheme to more schools/clubs. Inspite of the fact that there are many willing to come forward with support for such institutions, when we put out appeals via the Internet, it takes time and energy to manually complete the paperwork... update the list of magazines, their subscription prices, etc. We feel that if we had some software, our work would be more effective, and coverage could be possibly increased. Does anyone agree with our goals? What is required is a software to undertake the following tasks: * Build a simple list (database?) of magazines available, their current subscription, address to where subscription money is to be sent, whether to be sent as DD/MO/etc, and special temporary subscription offers if any. (See details enlisted below.) * Build a 'DD-drafting software'. After a list of magazines is selected from the above module, it would immediately generate a statement to the bank, instructing the bank to create DDs in favour of specific parties (i.e. the magazine publishers), the amount of the DD, on which centres (Bombay, Delhi, etc) and the commission being charged by the bank. * Further, another module could keep a list of the schools/clubs being currently supported, list of the magazines they are receiving and uptil which date the magazines are subscribed till. This is for our records. * Lastly, another module could generate a report for the school -- intimating them which magazines they would be receiving, the details of the DD by which the payment was made (DD number and date) and when the DD was despatched by post. This is meant to ensure that the schools/clubs could take up cases of non-receipt of magazines, if any, directly with the publishers. Could any kind soul help us generate such a program? Our preferences are for a Linux-based software, and one that runs without XWindows (in terminal mode). I'm not a technical person, so don't know whether what I'm asking for makes sense in the first place. But if some students could take up this challenge as their college project, it would be great. Possibly, this software could be used by others in the country who want to take advantage of the large number of inexpensive magazines available across India... and also the crying need for people to get access to reading material at public centres. We could perhaps be able to offer a limited amount of financial support for those undertaking this work. Kindly note that ours is a wholly unfunded project, and zero-funds is spend on administrative charges for the same. Funding received is sent directly to the schools or clubs, and the aim is that every rupee goes towards a magazine subscription. We chose magazines instead of books because these tend to be more contemporary, have more utilitarian value, and are above all more inexpensive. If you feel this idea is worth persuing, do get in touch with me via fred@bytesforall.org Regards, Frederick Noronha Goa. PS: Below is a suggestion for the formats of some of the forms generated by the 'MagIni' (Magazine Initiative) software: #1 ========================================================================== LIST OF MAGAZINES AVAILABLE (This is a easy-to-read listing) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Serial No. Name of mag Address Description Price Special rates ========================================================================== NOTE: This requires to be updated regularly, as the subscription prices change without notice. In addition, one should have the facility to choose mags from this list, which would then generate the form below... This form should be printable (possibly as a txt file, or even generated into an email) so that it could be sent to schools who are not part of the project yet, and might want to understand what it involves. #2 ========================================================================== BANK DEMAND DRAFT 'DRAFTING' PRINTOUT -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Draft in favour of Place Rs Bank's commission TOTAL Rs Rs ========================================================================== NOTE: This form is generated after the magazines are ticked off (or selected in any other way) from the list above. This would minimise the monotony involved in calculating the budget required for a particular school, and also calculating the amount to be paid to the bank for the DDs and the bank's commission. This form too needs to be printable, or despatched via email to the bank. #3 ========================================================================== LIST OF SCHOOLS CURRENTLY PART OF THE MAGS. INITIATIVE SCHEME Name of school Magazines received Subscription valid till ========================================================================== NOTE: This is for our records. There could be some additional feature for alerting (via email?) when the mag subscriptions are drawing to an end. #4 ========================================================================== REPORT FOR INDIVIDUAL SCHOOLS Mags being subscribed DD No DD Date Posted to mag on date: ========================================================================== That's it. Simple or asking for too much? FN cls From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 12:33:43 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun Kumar.D) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:03:43 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Security concern for Free Softwares. Message-ID: <002901c12261$e0902640$0200a8c0@asianetindia.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C1228F.F5144AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, When the source code is distributed along with a software, anyone = can examine it. But if there are any security holes in them, won't they = be exploited by hackers? Won't this issue make free softwares insecure = for the common user?=20 Happy hacking :-) Best regards, Arun Kumar.D, Trivandrum. MSN - arun_k_d@msn.com ICQ - 113777906 ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C1228F.F5144AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
     
    Hi,
          When the = source code=20 is distributed along with a software, anyone can examine it. But if = there are=20 any security holes in them, won't they be exploited by hackers? Won't = this issue=20 make free softwares insecure for the common user?
     
    Happy hacking :-)
     
     
    Best regards,
     
    Arun Kumar.D,
    Trivandrum.
     
    MSN - arun_k_d@msn.com
    ICQ - 113777906
     
    ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C1228F.F5144AA0-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 13:33:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:03:08 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Korean Air Mission Critical Systems Moved to GNU/Linux Message-ID: Hi all, Korean Air has decided to move its flight-crew scheduling and daily accounting systems to GNU/Linux running on an IBM mainframe, and 5000 users will access this information through their browsers starting in September. This is a good anecdote for large implementation of a GNU/Linux. More details at http://www.zdnet.com/filters/printerfriendly/0,6061,2797645-35,00.html raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 14:12:22 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:42:22 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] My Apologies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Please be kind enough to restrain yourself from posting large chunks of > quoted text to this list. Done. For most of them, I did not have the URLs. -- Raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 14:56:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 11 Aug 2001 20:26:08 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Security concern for Free Softwares. In-Reply-To: <002901c12261$e0902640$0200a8c0@asianetindia.com> References: <002901c12261$e0902640$0200a8c0@asianetindia.com> Message-ID: <863d6yve5z.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> "Arun Kumar.D" writes: > Hi, When the source code is distributed along with a software, > anyone can examine it. But if there are any security holes in them, > won't they be exploited by crackers? Won't this issue make free > softwares insecure for the common user? On the contrary. Because of its very nature, Free Software gets subjected to a process of Peer Review far more robust than that for Proprietary Software. You see, because "anyone can examine" the source code, possible security holes in Free Software are detected and fixed far earlier, quicker and sooner than in Proprietary Software. Besides, looking at the source is not the only way of detecting security holes. Unless you have been hibernating for quite some time, you must be familiar with the recent and not-so-recent news reports of the numerous security holes detected in the products of a particularly notorious Proprietary Software company. The source code of these compromised products is not available and still the detection of security holes (by third parties) in these products has become a matter of routine. In addition, when a security hole is detected in any Free Software, it invariably gets fixed immediately, by anyone. Whereas, for a Proprietary Software program to be fixed, you are at the complete mercy of the program's manufacturer to fix it. In fact, if the hole in question is detected internally within the Proprietary Software company, they may not even bother to fix it unless the hole gets exploited! For more on the security risks of using Proprietary Software, please see: http://www.complete.org/fs/fsethics/html/node9.html -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 11 17:36:42 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M Balakrishna Pillai) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:06:42 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Security concern for Free Softwares. References: <002901c12261$e0902640$0200a8c0@asianetindia.com> Message-ID: <3B756D2A.15CBBAFA@eth.net> > "Arun Kumar.D" wrote: When the source code is distributed along with a software, > anyone can examine it. But if there are any security holes in them, > won't they be exploited by hackers? > > Arun Kumar.D, > Trivandrum. Practical experience shows that they are fixed immediately in the case of FREE SOFTWARES and you have the liberty to rectify it. M.Balakrishna Pillai From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 13 07:50:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Suraj Kumar S.) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:20:06 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] HELP SOUGHT: Software for reading clubs... In-Reply-To: ; from fred@bytesforall.org on Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 04:22:47PM +0530 References: Message-ID: <20010813132006.A23877@in.inapp.com> Hi all, The project proposed by Frederick Noronha would be really useful for a lot of educational institutions in India. He has put most of the requirements very clearly. Why don't we commission a project and start some system study on it, so that all the requirements are made clear. Iam ready to volunteer my spare time into it. -suraj -- GNU/Linux rulz! On Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 04:22:47PM +0530, Frederick Noronha wrote: > Dear FSF-Indiaers: > > This may be a tall order. Was wondering if one could get some help from > anyone on this list to build a small software program to help us with our > tiny Magazines Initiative, a not-for-profit venture that is carried on here > on a voluntary basis. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 13 08:12:45 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:42:45 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] A draft letter focusing on freedom Message-ID: <86bslk9y4i.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> --=-=-= Here's a draft of a letter which can be sent to the WB government. With slight modifications, this letter can be used to address any government planning a tie-up with any proprietary software company. Also, with slight modifications, this letter can be sent to editors of various newspapers. Please note that most newspapers give priority to printed letters either posted to or dropped at their offices. - Khuzaima --=-=-= Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=draft-letter Content-Description: Draft of a letter opposing the use of proprietary software We, the members of the Free Software community in India, are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans to base your complete e-governance infrastructure on a Proprietary Software company's products. The company in question is Microsoft (India), a wholly owned subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation based in Redmond, USA. The history of Microsoft has shown that it has nothing but contempt for its customers' rights. When you become a Microsoft customer, you surrender certain rights which are otherwise guaranteed by the constitutions of most democracies of the world. Since the Government has the duty to protect its citizens' constitutional rights, it would be unthinkable that your Government is about to surrender some of these rights to this multinational corporation. We urge you to consider our arguments presented in the rest of this letter in favour of adopting Free Software rather than Proprietary Software for all your e-governance and in fact all your Information Technology needs. In the rest of this letter, we will be referring to the term "Proprietary Software company" and "Microsoft" interchangeably, in the hope of conveying that all the ills and demerits which plague entering into a relationship with Microsoft also apply to any other Proprietary Software company. 1. Proprietary Software companies take away your freedom to access and modify the source code of the software or to modify the software in any other manner. This is akin to an automobile manufacturer selling you a car and telling you that it is illegal for you to open the bonnet and look at the engine's inner working. And that it is illegal for you to hire a private mechanic to service the engine. And that it is illegal for you to modify the car in any other manner. Would your Government buy a car with such restrictions? When applied to computer software, the above restriction has some very grave repercussions. In case of a flaw in the software (all computer software has flaws; and even more so with Proprietary Software) you are at the complete and total mercy of the Proprietary Software manufacturer. You do not have the option of hiring software engineers who may be capable of fixing the flaw. You do not even have the guarantee that the flaw will be fixed. All you can do is wait for the Proprietary Software manufacturer to fix the flaw (if at all) and release an updated version at a time of its own choosing. And then you have to pay for the entire updated version rather than just having to pay the cost of fixing the flaw. The other repercussion of the above restriction is related to customisation. Proprietary Software companies take away your right to customise the software as per your needs. It is unthinkable that a project as vast as state-wide e-governance can be accomplished without continuous customisation as per the changing needs of the Government and the people. Although a Proprietary Software company may initially supply you with a customised version of the software, you are again at the mercy of the company for any subsequent customisations that may be required. The Proprietary Software license forbids you to hire capable software engineers to do the customisation. Instead, you must request the company to provide the required customisation, offer large amounts of money unrelated to the task at hand and *hope* that the company will undertake the customisation work. Thus, the restriction on access to source code and modification of the software in any form, *permanently* binds you to the Proprietary Software company in a completely one-sided business relationship which has you at the complete mercy of the company. Considering that an e-Governance infrastructure is a public asset and that the company in this case, Microsoft, is a multinational corporation with profit as its sole motive and with no respect for its customers' rights, the above restrictions by themselves should make your proposed relationship with the said corporation unacceptable. Free Software does not have the above restrictions. All Free Software comes with full access to source code and with full permissions to modify or customise the software as you deem fit. 2. Proprietary Software companies have propagated the idea of software as a material object. They completely disregard the fact that the ability to access, copy and modify information is in fact the greatest boon of the Information Technology age. As a bizarre consequence of the Proprietary Software industry's idea of software as material object, obsolete copyright laws, which predate the IT age, are applied to software making it illegal to copy Proprietary Software. Besides the obvious economic ramification of the Proprietary Software company charging for each and every copy of the same piece of software, this also criminalises the otherwise absolutely innocent task of making a copy for another person's use. For instance, this makes a criminal out of a person who wishes to help his neighbour by copying and giving him a piece of software which he (the neighbour) needs for accomplishing some task. Proprietary Software, in effect, takes away an individual's freedom to do what he wishes to do with his software. We strongly feel that the State should have nothing to do with a business model which criminalises its citizens' innocent activities. Free Software does not place any legal restrictions on copying and distribution of software and, in fact, encourages the modification and redistribution of software for the betterment of society. 3. Most Proprietary Software uses "patented" technology and proprietary, non-standard, file and data formats. Some even forbid the reverse-engineering of their file formats, let alone reverse-engineering of the software itself. This is a grave risk with many repercussions. Proprietary file formats again put your Government at the total mercy of the Proprietary Software company. This implies that the stored data, which is otherwise the property of the Government, can only be accessed by the said Proprietary Software. This is totally unacceptable. At any given time, at the whims of the Proprietary Software company, you can lose your right to access your own data. Proprietary file and data formats are an impediment to the smooth and efficient exchange of information. It places undue hurdles in the process of exchanging information between diverse computing environments. Proprietary file formats are, by definition, non-transparent. Transparency should be the bedrock of an e-Governance infrastructure. In contrast to Proprietary Software, Free Software only uses open standards based file and data formats compatible across diverse computing environments. In addition to all the primary advantages of Free Software vis-a-vis Proprietary Software listed above, there are many other *derived* advantages such as security, reliability, stability and last but not the least, affordability. References for further information on Free Software: http://www.fsf.org http://www.fsf.org.in --=-=-=-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 13 08:45:50 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:15:50 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Photoes of RMS' visit Message-ID: <3B7793BE.2173C7D8@ti.com> I have uploaded some of the photoes of RMS' visit to Kerala. They are accessible from http://photos.yahoo.com/rkrishnan_m/ Click on rms-visit. -- Ramakrishnan M World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 13 16:30:36 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:00:36 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Govt Using GNU/Linux Message-ID: The city of Largo, Florida, USA is using GNU/Linux in all it's computer and saving bucket loads of tax payers money. more at http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/08/10/1441239 This has a pretty neat reports of the problems they faced and how they solved them. Good read to any one trying to get GNU system in offices. raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 13 19:47:36 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 01:17:36 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Sublists Message-ID: The following lists have been created: 1. fsf-edu@gnu.org.in Free Software in Education Please subscribe at: http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-edu 2. fsf-prog@gnu.org.in For programmers and technical discussion Please subscribe at: http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-prog 3. fsf-dev@gnu.org.in For projects and developer coordination Please subscribe at: http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-dev All are requested to direct posts relating to the above themes to the respective sublists and let us keep the main list for general announcement and discussion relating to philosphy, licences, etc., and of course flame wars. Hope this is OK for the moment. Any comments are welcome. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 14 05:08:46 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:38:46 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] DMCA Message-ID: <3B78B25E.739D9D1C@ti.com> http://www.anti-dmca.org/ -- Ramakrishnan M World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 14 06:33:23 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 14 Aug 2001 12:03:23 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Public-Funded Knowledge : Free v/s Commercial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86g0av5ex8.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raj Singh writes: > Similarly for NCST developed Hindi software. I understand that NCST > subsequently tied-up with Microsoft and this formed the kernel of Indian > language support touted by Microsoft for MS-Word in 1999. So, now the > government and Indian public is paying Microsoft for what (in some sense) > was developed with public money and "belongs" to them ! It's official. Microsoft launches Office XP in nine [Indian] languages. NCST is among the organisations which "worked with Microsoft on this initiative." http://www.hinduonnet.com/stories/0214000n.htm [Please note that the above URL will be valid only for today, Aug 14. The story can subsequently be accessed from The Hindu's archives.] -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 14 07:03:15 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satish Babu) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:33:15 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Another FUD tactic? Message-ID: This article says that Windows XP has a deliberately botched security model so that things will get worse (..than Code Red, I suppose), enabling M$ to say, "Hey, it is this TCP/IP that's the real problem. How about a new protocol, TCP/M$?"... http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010802.html From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 14 12:52:23 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Kanti Jadia) Date: 14 Aug 2001 12:52:23 -0000 Subject: [FSF India] Re:Draft Letter by Khuzaima A. Lakdawala Message-ID: <20010814125223.2478.qmail@mailweb32.rediffmail.com> We, the members of the Free Software community in India, are deeply distressed to learn about your Government's plans to base your complete e-governance infrastructure on a Proprietary Software company's products. The company in question is Microsoft (India), a wholly owned subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation based in Redmond, USA. The history of Microsoft has shown that it has nothing but contempt for its customers' rights. When you become a Microsoft customer, you surrender certain rights which are otherwise guaranteed by the constitutions of most democracies of the world. Since the Government has the duty to protect its citizens' constitutional rights, it would be unthinkable that your Government is about to surrender some of these rights to this multinational corporation. We urge you to consider our arguments presented in the rest of this letter in favour of adopting Free Software rather than Proprietary Software for all your e-governance and in fact all your Information Technology needs. In the rest of this letter, we will be referring to the term "Proprietary Software company" and "Microsoft" interchangeably, in the hope of conveying that all the ills and demerits which plague entering into a relationship with Microsoft also apply to any other Proprietary Software company. 1. Proprietary Software companies take away your freedom to access and modify the source code of the software or to modify the software in any other manner. This is akin to an automobile manufacturer selling you a car and telling you that it is illegal for you to open the bonnet and look at the engine's inner working. And that it is illegal for you to hire a private mechanic to service the engine. And that it is illegal for you to modify the car in any other manner. Would your Government buy a car with such restrictions? When applied to computer software, the above restriction has some very grave repercussions. In case of a flaw in the software (all computer software has flaws; and even more so with Proprietary Software) you are at the complete and total mercy of the Proprietary Software manufacturer. You do not have the option of hiring software engineers who may be capable of fixing the flaw. You do not even have the guarantee that the flaw will be fixed. All you can do is wait for the Proprietary Software manufacturer to fix the flaw (if at all) and release an updated version at a time of its own choosing. And then you have to pay for the entire updated version rather than just having to pay the cost of fixing the flaw. The other repercussion of the above restriction is related to customisation. Proprietary Software companies take away your right to customise the software as per your needs. It is unthinkable that a project as vast as state-wide e-governance can be accomplished without continuous customisation as per the changing needs of the Government and the people. Although a Proprietary Software company may initially supply you with a customised version of the software, you are again at the mercy of the company for any subsequent customisations that may be required. The Proprietary Software license forbids you to hire capable software engineers to do the customisation. Instead, you must request the company to provide the required customisation, offer large amounts of money unrelated to the task at hand and *hope* that the company will undertake the customisation work. Thus, the restriction on access to source code and modification of the software in any form, *permanently* binds you to the Proprietary Software company in a completely one-sided business relationship which has you at the complete mercy of the company. Considering that an e-Governance infrastructure is a public asset and that the company in this case, Microsoft, is a multinational corporation with profit as its sole motive and with no respect for its customers' rights, the above restrictions by themselves should make your proposed relationship with the said corporation unacceptable. Free Software does not have the above restrictions. All Free Software comes with full access to source code and with full permissions to modify or customise the software as you deem fit. --Shouldn't we specify that the changes have to be reverted back. Rest all is fine Kanti _________________________________________________________ For Rs. 2,000,000 worth of Aptech scholarships click below http://clients.rediff.com/clients/aptechsch/index.htm From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 14 17:57:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (T-Online) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:57:30 +0200 Subject: [FSF India] FSF/GNU Message-ID: <3B79668A.A0E3E1BB@T-Online.de> Please let me know what is FSF and GNU. I am ignorant of this short form or acronym. Once your explain I will react to engage with you or not. With best wishes, William From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 07:12:48 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (mcjayan) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:42:48 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Can we reduce number of mails? Message-ID: <003001c12559$b1ee8340$03000004@Chaithanya> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C12587.CA24B320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! Can we think of a way to reduce the number of mails coming to FSF = mailing list? I have recieved 4 mails before afternoon today from the FSF mailing = list. =20 It will be very useful if we can combine all these into a single = mail and send as one mail per day. This will help in consolidating all articles, news and = comments for a day in a single mail. Regards Jayakrishnan ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C12587.CA24B320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi!
     
        Can we think of a = way to reduce=20 the number of mails coming to FSF mailing list?
        I have recieved 4 = mails before=20 afternoon today from the FSF mailing list.
       
        It will be very = useful if=20 we can combine all these into a = single mail and=20 send as one
        mail per day. This = will help in=20 consolidating all articles, news and comments for a day
        in a single = mail.
     
    Regards
    Jayakrishnan
     
    ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C12587.CA24B320-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 07:04:11 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:34:11 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Can we reduce number of mails? In-Reply-To: <003001c12559$b1ee8340$03000004@Chaithanya> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 at 12:42, mcjayan wrote: It will be very useful if we can combine all these into a single mail and send as one mail per day. This will help in consolidating all articles, news and comments for a day in a single mail. You can reconfigure your subscription options and change to digest mode so that mailman will send you all the posts as a daily digest. Please check at: http://gnu.org.in/listinfo/fsf-india and go the the bottom where you need to enter your email id in the textbox against the edit options button. Click it and follow the instructions. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 08:14:40 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Suraj Kumar S.) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:44:40 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Can we reduce number of mails? In-Reply-To: <003001c12559$b1ee8340$03000004@Chaithanya>; from mcjayan@sify.com on Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 12:42:48PM +0530 References: <003001c12559$b1ee8340$03000004@Chaithanya> Message-ID: <20010815134440.A29562@in.inapp.com> Hello, The possible option would be that you subscribe to daily digest, so that you get only one mail a day. You can change your settings at http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india Go to the end of this page and login with your email address, and change the "Set Digest Mode" setting to ON. -suraj On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 12:42:48PM +0530, mcjayan wrote: > Hi! > > Can we think of a way to reduce the number of mails coming to FSF mailing list? > I have recieved 4 mails before afternoon today from the FSF mailing list. > > It will be very useful if we can combine all these into a single mail and send as one > mail per day. This will help in consolidating all articles, news and comments for a day > in a single mail. > > Regards > Jayakrishnan > From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 07:39:49 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:09:49 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] FSF/GNU In-Reply-To: <3B79668A.A0E3E1BB@T-Online.de> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, T-Online wrote: > Please let me know what is FSF and GNU. Please see www.gnu.org for an explanation. > Once your explain I will react to engage with you or not. This list is basically for the issues wrt FSF and India. raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 10:22:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Sathya) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Tv Program on Stallman Message-ID: <20010815102228.37832.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, We have produced a 1 hour special programme on Richard stallman and his ideals. the programme is called "st.INGUcious in India". The programme will be telecast in the following times on following days, fotrward the mail to the concerned. Original telecast - 19th august 9:10 PM Repeat telecast - 20 th August 1:10 AM, 8:10 AM and 5:10 PM and one more last telecast will be on 21 August at 5:10 AM. I thank FSF-India people who co-operated with our corresondent David in trivandrum. Sathya Prakash Peddy News Producer TMG Enter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 10:47:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Sathya) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Stallman Tv programme ..more details Message-ID: <20010815104706.85615.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Sorry i forgot to give tye crucial detail.. the programme willl be telecast on TMG Enter television channel, the only technology channel in south asia. if you are not gettingbthe channel now, coax your cable operator to give it to you. We have produced a 1 hour special programme on Richard stallman and his ideals. the programme is called "st.INGUcious in India". The programme will be telecast in the following times on following days, fotrward the mail to the concerned. Original telecast - 19th august 9:10 PM Repeat telecast - 20 th August 1:10 AM, 8:10 AM and 5:10 PM and one more last telecast will be on 21 August at 5:10 AM. I thank FSF-India people who co-operated with our corresondent David in trivandrum. Sathya Prakash Peddy News Producer TMG Enter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 05:04:07 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (narayanan sathya) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Public-Funded Knowledge : Free v/s Commercial Message-ID: <20010816050407.63206.qmail@web14202.mail.yahoo.com> It is distressing to know how MNCs like Microsoft to control the rest of the software economy of the world. The HINDI software is just one example. Similar is the story of most of the software exporters in India. We are always confined to some kind of software services. Even software design and coding is ultimately become a service to the MNCs who always anjoys the long term benefits by integrating the bricks made by high caliber software coolies of India. Even for a software patent (if at all required) we need to go to U.S! See more thought on this topic at http://indiaforward.com/knsabu1.htm It is certain that to counter the crooked designs of such political economy, we need teamwork of openminded intelligentsia who believe that technology and knowledge is for solving problems and not creating just money and wealth alone, without addressing the basic human issues. K N Sabu ER&DCI (T) ===== ........................................................ We make a living by what we get; a life by what we give. ........................................................ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 06:54:50 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Varghese B George) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:24:50 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] (no subject) Message-ID: <200108160654.f7G6so224962@mailhub.xstreamindia.co.in> From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 05:56:49 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 16 Aug 2001 11:26:49 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re:Draft Letter by Khuzaima A. Lakdawala In-Reply-To: <20010814125223.2478.qmail@mailweb32.rediffmail.com> References: <20010814125223.2478.qmail@mailweb32.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <86bslglf8e.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> "Kanti Jadia" writes: > Free Software does not have the above restrictions. All Free Software > comes with full access to source code and with full permissions to > modify or customise the software as you deem fit. > > --Shouldn't we specify that the changes have to be reverted back. Dear Kanti, Further down, at the end of point 2, the letter states: Free Software does not place any legal restrictions on copying and distribution of software and, in fact, encourages the modification and redistribution of software for the betterment of society. Does this reasonably address your query? Yes, I know I am *fudging* it a little by not mentioning the GPL and its requirement "that the changes *have* to be" given back to the Free Software community. If you feel very strongly about this, please feel free to add/insert this requirement in the letter before using it. Regards, Khuzaima From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 07:20:48 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Varghese B George) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:50:48 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Linux'ising Kerala's Villages Message-ID: <200108160720.f7G7Kmk25065@mailhub.xstreamindia.co.in> Hello All. There has been lots of mails and discussion to stop M$'ising WB. How about convincing "Gods Own Country"-Kerala's villagers to start using Linux? A District Co-operative Bank in Pathanamthitta is going to start computerising. Their requirements are modest, a 4 client computer and a server network configuration to run a custom banking software for their dily needs. They do not have any knowledge in using computers, so they dont need to 'unlearn' M$ Windows. Once this bank has been succesfully computerised, other similar banks will follow suit. A representative of this bank had asked me for advice on these matters. I would like to know how to proceed from here. They would also need a Customised Banking Software (in Malayam maybe???) to manage their accounts. -- Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware. Varghese B George XStream Software From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 08:19:02 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:49:02 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re:Draft Letter by Khuzaima A. Lakdawala In-Reply-To: <86bslglf8e.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in>; from klak@giasbm01.vsnl.net.in on Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:26:49AM +0530 References: <20010814125223.2478.qmail@mailweb32.rediffmail.com> <86bslglf8e.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <20010816134902.A638@mailandnews.com> On Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 11:26:49AM +0530, Khuzaima A. Lakdawala wrote: > > its requirement "that the changes *have* to be" given back to the Free > Software community. Only if you want to publish (distribute) the changed software. GPL dosen't insist that all modifications be distributed in the first place, although it is encouraged (and a very good thing to do). bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 16 09:53:20 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 16 Aug 2001 15:23:20 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Re:Draft Letter by Khuzaima A. Lakdawala In-Reply-To: <20010816134902.A638@mailandnews.com> References: <20010814125223.2478.qmail@mailweb32.rediffmail.com> <86bslglf8e.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> <20010816134902.A638@mailandnews.com> Message-ID: <86snescovj.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Pappu writes: > > its requirement "that the changes *have* to be" given back to the Free > > Software community. > Only if you want to publish (distribute) the changed software. GPL dosen't > insist that all modifications be distributed in the first place, although > it is encouraged (and a very good thing to do). I stand corrected. Also, (this is addressed to Kanti) there are many other non-copyleft licenses (http://www.fsf.org/licenses/license-list.html) which are perfectly *good* Free Software licenses from a user's perspective. Hence, it is best to keep our letter license-neutral and not mention the GPL and its requirements. - Khuzaima From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 17 05:54:47 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:24:47 +0530 Subject: [LIG] Re: [FSF India] Re: WB Govt ties up with MSFT In-Reply-To: References: <1170.192.168.0.4.997336758.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> Message-ID: <20010817112447.A2145@debianut.ekmnet> [Thu, Aug 09, 2001 at 11:52:46AM +0530] Radhakrishnan CV : > I will agree with Raju on the draft letter since we are > talking to the political leadership of a state government > who are all well aware of the values of freedom and democracy. You are patently wrong ! Yesterday the deal was signed by the West Bengal Govt. and M$. We have to talk to the political leadership about the value of *free* software and the *freedom* that it brings along, all the more. The technical issues can wait and are not that pressing :( Better still, we shall not go on talking to the political leadership; we shall go to the schools and start our work amongst the students. We shall tell them about recipes, elephants and a small peg on the ground, about the jailing of Dmitry, about Prof. Felten and more. -- GPG: 1024D/F1624A6E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 15 07:35:47 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:05:47 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Can we reduce number of mails? In-Reply-To: <003001c12559$b1ee8340$03000004@Chaithanya> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, mcjayan wrote: > It will be very useful if we can combine all these into a single > mail and send as one mail per day. This will help in consolidating > all articles, news and comments for a day in a single mail. Please visit http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india and select the digest mode raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 17 13:56:09 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (TUGIndia) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:26:09 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] TUG 2002 Message-ID: Please visit: http://www.tugindia.org.in/tug2002/ which has more information on the International Conference of TeX Users Group, here in Trivandrum during September 2002. Trivandrum happens to witness more events relating to Free Software.:) Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 18 04:16:05 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 18 Aug 2001 09:46:05 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Friends in unexpected places Message-ID: <868zgim29m.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> It seems we have friends in the most unexpected places: A resolution adopted by the BSNL Employees Union State formation conference in Kannur, Kerala, [also] urged the BSNL as well as the State and Central Governments to use and encourage the use of free non patented softwares with open source code as part of developing practical alternatives to colonial interests in the sector. Extremely heart warming, to say the least! I couldn't find the full story on The Hindu's web site. It's on Page 4, today's Kochi edition. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 05:34:37 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 21 Aug 2001 11:04:37 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Code Red: it can happen here Message-ID: <868zge0ydu.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Here is an example of the dangers of citing "security" *benefits* while advocating the use of Free Software: http://www.securityfocus.com/frames/?content=/templates/column.html?id=17 The marketing types from the Proprietary Software industry will easily *rubbish* our arguments based on these "hard facts." It is of paramount importance that our advocacy be based on Freedom First! -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 09:34:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (KG Kumar) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:34:56 -0000 Subject: [FSF India] (no subject) Message-ID: <200108210934.PAA17094@myiris.com> Check out Brad Kuhn's and RMS' response ("Freedom or Power" http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/08/15/free_software.html) to Tim O'Reilly's "Freedom Zero" in the O'Reilly Network (http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/526) followed by Eric Raymond on "Freedom, Power, or Confusion?" ________________________________________________________________ This message was sent using Myiris Mail For more information visit http://mail.myiris.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 09:38:34 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (KG Kumar) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:38:34 -0000 Subject: [FSF India] FS debate Message-ID: <200108210938.PAA17397@myiris.com> Check out Brad Kuhn's and RMS' response ("Freedom or Power" http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/08/15/free_software.html) to Tim O'Reilly's "Freedom Zero" in the O'Reilly Network (http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/526) followed by Eric Raymond on "Freedom, Power, or Confusion?" ________________________________________________________________ This message was sent using Myiris Mail For more information visit http://mail.myiris.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 13:59:17 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:29:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Malayalam support for GNU/Linux Message-ID: GNU/Linux system can now support Malayalam. Today a team of developers in FreeDevelopers.net (India) have successfully implemented Malayalam support in Pango and an input module for gtk which can support Hellingman's Malayalam Transliteration Schema. Jeroen Hellingman is the man who wrote a TeX package, input scheme and a free Malayalam font using Metafont language. However, the metafont sources can only create rastor fonts that are fit for usage in a TeX system, we need to write our own fonts for using in GNU/Linux. The software used are gtk+-1.3.5, pango-0.16. The sources will be released soon. A screen shot can be had at: http://www.tugindia.org.in/malayalam/malayalam.jpg Its is just in alpha stage and you can expect a few bugs. Comments are welcome. Congratulations to the young developers of FD (India). -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 15:16:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Titty Jacob) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Wired News :Linux Comes to the Big Screen Message-ID: <200108211516.IAA06089@fastbreak.hotwired.com> From Wired News, available online at: http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,41536,00.html Linux Comes to the Big Screen by Michelle Delio 2:00 a.m. Feb. 1, 2001 PST Linux is more than just an alternative operating system. It's also a culture with its own ethics, gods, myths and heroes. A new film, Revolution O.S., explores the human side of the open source and free software movements, telling the inside story of the hackers and programmers rebelling against the corporate machine. Revolution O.S. also depicts the culture of the open source movement by documenting the Installfest parties where people can bring their computers to get free, expert Linux tech support, and the Refund Day protest marches, where Linux users demand reimbursement of the extra fees that get tacked onto the purchase price of new computers for pre-installed Microsoft applications. Revolution O.S. was made by J.T.S. Moore, who was totally unfamiliar with the open source community when he started the project. "It wasn't my idea," Moore said. "One day in June 1999, I was talking on the phone to a good friend from Stanford, Doug Bone. He had seen my various films and videos over the years, and out of the blue, he jokingly suggested I make a documentary about the history of Linux." Moore looked into it and decided there was a great tale to be told about the people behind the software, a story rich with colorful personalities, creation and conflicts. In an attempt to reflect the complicated culture he captured in his project, Moore bills Revolution O.S. as an "epic movie," and said that his one regret was that he didn't have enough money to hire Charlton Heston to narrate the film. "Charlton Heston is a national treasure," Moore said. "I think any man who had the vision to star in Planet of the Apes, Omega Man and Soylent Green deserves respect. The bottom line is that if you love individual liberty you have to admire Charlton Heston." Not that the movie needs Heston to establish itself as a bona fide epic, said Moore, because at its core, "the open source movement is about hundreds of thousands of hackers and programmers around the world trying to throw off the yoke of the most powerful corporation on Earth." "If that's not epic, I don't know what is." To capture what he saw as the nature of open source's ideas and struggle, Moore worked with the old Hollywood epic format of anamorphic 35mm film (Cinemascope). Most documentaries are shot in a square format to fit TV screens, but Revolution O.S. is shot in the wide, rectangle format of the movie theater. Moore chose to work with film because "despite the delusional hype of the digital video community," he believes that 35mm film is superior to DV, at least for the intermediate future. "Also, shooting in DV breeds bad habits and yields an inferior image," Moore said. "Filmmakers shooting in DV tend to shoot staggering amounts of footage because it's cheap -- not because it's necessary. Ultimately, DV will probably trump 35mm film, but I will wait to use the format until it is undeniably better in terms of quality." "Don't get me wrong, no one is gonna mistake my cinematography in Revolution O.S. for a slick Hollywood film, but at least it doesn't have the amateur porno aesthetic of DV." The 90-minute film begins with Richard Stallman's quest to create a free operating system. It then follows the movement through its two decades-long evolution in interviews with Stallman, Linus Torvalds, Eric Raymond (author of The Cathedral and The Bazaar), Bruce Perens, (author of the Open Source Definition), Brian Behlendorf (leader of the Apache Web server project), Michael Tiemann (founder of the first open source company) and Larry Augustin (founder of VA Linux Systems). Moore has worked as a screenwriter for Disney and has had his work appear at the Telluride Film Festival and on the Encore cable channel. Revolution O.S. is his first feature-length documentary and, Moore said, it was the most challenging creative project. He wrote, directed, produced, photographed, and edited Revolution O.S. At the end of the project Moore found he'd turned into an open source advocate –- but with some reservations. Moore thinks the open source development model is here to stay, but is not convinced it will become completely dominant. He believes that it will probably co-exist with the closed source model. Eric Raymond, in a piece of writing that is widely acknowledged to define the ethics and rational of the open source and free software community, uses two cultural structures, the cathedral and the bazaar as a metaphor to describe the virtues of open source. Comparing the isolated model of the cathedral with the "babbling complexity" of the bazaar, Raymond makes a case for the seemingly chaotic marketplace as the cornerstone of a stable and resourceful economy and society. But Moore also sees in Raymond's metaphor an example of the virtue of the closed source model. "While bazaars are vibrant, fast-paced, evolving environments, a cathedral can be a stunningly beautiful creation of enduring purpose that lasts 1,000 years. As someone who approaches intellectual property rights from the artistic side, the cathedral model has its appeal," Moore said. Moore thinks the biggest threat to the success of the open source movement is piracy, not Microsoft. "If the voluntary ideals of the open source movement are further corrupted by a subculture of intellectual property theft, then the whole movement will be tainted. The owners of intellectual property will continue to fight the movement rather than cooperate with it." Moore believes that while many are convinced open source will give rise to new business models based on service and a culture of celebrity, the creators of intellectual property should have the option to participate in these new business models rather than being forced into "a communist manner because some people figure that if they can copy something then it's fair game to steal it." Revolution O.S. will be sneak-previewed Thursday night at Manhattan's AMC Empire 25 Theater, at 8:30. Those attending LinuxWorld this week can pick up tickets at the OSDN booth (#3000) in the dot-org pavilion. The first public screening of the film will be at the SXSW Film Festival in Austin, Texas, on March 12. Moore said people who would like to see the film should feel free to call "and pester" film distributors such as Miramax, Lions Gate in Los Angeles, and Cowboy Booking International in New York. "If enough people say they want to see the film, maybe they will distribute it," Moore said. Moore also noted that most of the film was financed via his Visa card. "So, if anyone wants to buy the film and get me out of debt, know that I will entertain any reasonable offer," he said, in true open source spirit. Related Wired Links: Pirates Beware: We're Watching Jan. 3, 2001 Pirates Beware: We're Watching Jan. 3, 2001 Pirates Beware: We're Watching Jan. 3, 2001 Proud to Represent Hackers Oct. 19, 2000 Africa: The Linux Continent? Sep. 22, 2000 Africa: The Linux Continent? Sep. 22, 2000 Copyright (C) 1994-2001 Wired Digital Inc. All rights reserved. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 17:53:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Anil Kumar) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Malayalam support for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Awesome! Congratulations to the team. Radi, why don't you reveal the names of the people worked on it? Anil On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Radhakrishnan CV wrote: > > GNU/Linux system can now support Malayalam. > > Today a team of developers in FreeDevelopers.net (India) have > successfully implemented Malayalam support in Pango and an input > module for gtk which can support Hellingman's Malayalam > Transliteration Schema. Jeroen Hellingman is the man who wrote a TeX > package, input scheme and a free Malayalam font using Metafont > language. However, the metafont sources can only create rastor fonts > that are fit for usage in a TeX system, we need to write our own > fonts for using in GNU/Linux. > > The software used are gtk+-1.3.5, pango-0.16. The sources will be > released soon. A screen shot can be had at: > > http://www.tugindia.org.in/malayalam/malayalam.jpg > > Its is just in alpha stage and you can expect a few bugs. Comments > are welcome. > > Congratulations to the young developers of FD (India). > > -- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 17:22:19 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:52:19 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Malayalam support for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Radhakrishnan CV wrote: > Today a team of developers in FreeDevelopers.net (India) have > successfully implemented Malayalam support in Pango and an input > module for gtk which can support Hellingman's Malayalam > Transliteration Schema. This is a great news! Congratulations to all involved!! raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 20 19:48:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 01:18:00 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Education - success and failure Message-ID: Hi, here are ywo links, one at Fort Collins, Colorado, where they are going to install GNU/Linux, interestingly managed remotely by parents and local user group. http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,45862,00.html Next is the news that Mexican schools are embracing Windows. It is a must read to see why an ambitious experiment failed and what it can teach us http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,45737,00.html As an aside, Linux for schools project is at http://www.lfsp.org/ raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 00:00:15 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Loic Dachary) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:00:15 +0200 Subject: [FSF India] FSF France activity report Message-ID: <15234.62991.83780.393060@dachary.org> Hi, The FSF France activity report for June-July-August has just been published. You can read it at: http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-08-20-01.en.html FSF France activity report The [1]FSF Europe presence in France exists since April 12 2001, and produced an [2]activity report covering April and May 2001. This report covers June, July and August 2001. If some subjects are obscure, you can get back to the previous report to better understand them. We took care to keep the same headlines to ease cross reference. During those three months we established many contacts, informally or on actual actions, with Free Software organization or individuals around the world. All of them were possible thanks to APRIL (national), FSF (international) and FSF Europe (European). Our actions can now extend to Portugal, Spain, Italy, United Kingdom, Luxembourg, Sweden, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, Denmark, South Africa, Japan, China, Hungaria, Czech Republic, India, Korea, Mexico, United States and Canada. We attended to events, the most important being [3]LSM and produced a sustained advocacy effort coordinated with other organizations. Actions previously engaged (Savannah, Savannah and Europe, freedoms, GPL translation, GNU information, Technopole Logiciel Libre) made significant progress. New actions were also started (patents, education, science, electronic voting, press review, GNU and Debian), most of them mainly undertaken by associate organizations. Our involvement in the GNU project grew with contributions to the web standards, the fact that the machine is now used as a secondary DNS for the gnu.org domain, evaluation of candidate GNU packages and heavy contribution to the maintainance and evolution of [4]Savannah. We also benefit from the infrastructure of the GNU project since our domain, mailing lists, CVS tree etc. are hosted on other GNU machines. Political and legal actions are also doing fine since we had opportunities to stress the importance of legal protection of Free Software, met with government officials occasionally. To be completely honest we cannot really claim a noteworthy achivement on this front. Last but not least, it is now established that FSF France activity is ruled by a steady flow of volunteers, contributing their time in occasional burst and happy enthusiasm. Around ten volunteers motivated themselves to fight for Free Software with us in the past three months. This may seem very few people and yet we achieved to do a significant amount of work. Nowadays every good will counts and your action can really make the difference, as long as you can spare some time to drink a beer or relax between two sessions. We want to keep going in the long term and this requires a bit of fun from time to time. On cooperation The collaborative spirit described in the [5]previous report is certainly our most pro-eminent achievement. Our motto could be that we don't undertake actions alone. It is better not to undertake an action if we fail to actually cooperate with Free Software movement people and organizations already involved. Although this spirit makes sense in writing it requires a significant amount of effort. The syndrome of replicating effort does not only apply to software. Organizations also have a natural tendency to undertake new projects before searching for similar efforts, before actually engaging a dialog with people involved, before trying everything to cooperate. The bandwidth of the brain is significantly higher than the bandwidth of the mail. If all the dialog needed to start a new project occurs in the brain of a single person, the project will take off rapidly, the first version will be available fast and bring some results within days. When you extend the dialog to other people and organizations, it gets significantly slower at first. Only later does it become faster and stronger. Yes, union is a force but it works slower and is not fit for the impatient. A fairly good example is our involvement in the infrastructure of the GNU project. From the beginning we started with the idea that all our technical infrastructure should use and contribute to the infrastructure of the GNU project. The advantages are pretty obvious: why run and maintain Mailman, exim, ftp server, web server, CVS when those are already available and maintained by the GNU project ? The drawbacks are also pretty obvious: understanding the infrastructure of the GNU project, contribute to it so that it fits our needs introduces a significant bootstrap delay. The machine we installed in France is now fully integrated to the GNU project, meaning that it is monitored and maintained by the GNU project. This a win for us. It also runs the secondary DNS for gnu.org domains. This is a win for the GNU project. Mailing lists and web site for FSF Europe are managed by machines in Boston. This is win for us. People involved in the system administration of the machine in France know the infrastructure of the GNU project and can contribute to the maintainance of other machines. This a win for the GNU project. This may seem an example that is of no great consequence but in our eyes it reflects the essence of cooperation. It's slower but it makes us stronger. This example is also chosen on purpose because we believe that technical heterogeneity is often the first obstacle to cooperation on non technical matters. Say, for instance, that two Free Software organizations want to share their calendars to coordinate their political actions. If they use technical tools that are significantly different it may prove inconvenient for them to actually do it. We are not saying that it is a major problem, we are not saying that everybody should use the exact same tools or nothing. We only acknowledge that cooperation on a technical infrastructure is a win/win situation that also removes an obstacle for cooperation on non technical matters. Given the fact that we have scarce resources at all time, there is no reason to discard this advantage. Projects [6]Translation of the GNU GPL in French ([7]previous report). Interviews of [8]Mélanie Clément-Fontaine (french, 19 May 2001), and [9]Benjamin Drieu (french, 17 May 2001) about the translation of the GNU GPL were conducted to keep people informed of the progress made so far. Till Jaeger and Axel Metzger, two German lawyers in contact with the FSF Europe are also following and participating to this project. They are working on launching a similar effort in their country. During the [10]Libre Software Meeting in Bordeaux, Eben Moglen came to express his vision of the future of the GPL. A workshop involving Mélanie Clément Fontaine, Eben Moglen, Bradley M. Kuhn, Anne Østergaard and around twenty people interested in the subject allowed to clarify very important points. Eben Moglen stressed the fact that it is important that the translation matches the following constraints: + It must not be used as a legally binding license, it must remain informative, the English version being the only one that has a legal force. + It must not be bound to contract law Volunteers: Mélanie Clément-Fontaine, Benjamin Drieu, Frédéric Couchet, Olivier Berger, Sebastien Blondeel, Loïc Dachary, Till Jaeger, Axel Metzger. [11]Patents APRIL (FSFE associate organization) launched a call for action to encourage people to act against patents. They propose specific actions and provide all the material needed to strongly react against the report given to the french government that is in favor of software patents. Late June, Richard M. Stallman was in Paris and proposed an idea for a [12]program against software patents to Jacques Le Marois (CEO of Mandrake). On the subject of patents we follow the lead of APRIL and AFUL. Volunteers: Frédéric Couchet, Jérôme Dominguez. [13]The four freedoms ([14]previous report) A steady flow of people are participating. Volunteers: Raphaël Rousseau, Loïc Dachary. [15]Education Hilaire Fernandes and other volunteers joined the GNU project and created the [16]education section of the GNU project. They established contact with Canadian and Chinese activists involved in providing Free Software for educational purposes. Hilaire published an [17]essay (in french) about Free Software and education. Verbatim copy is permitted and encouraged. It also contains a detailed history of the Free Software movement. On the subject of education we follow the lead of OFSET. Many people are involved and their actions deserves an independent activity report. Volunteers: [18]savannah list [19]Science Joris Van der Hoven initiated an APRIL working group to support Free Software in science. He works for a french university himself and advocates that software made while conducting a research financed by the government should be released as Free Software. The very spirit of research does not fit well with the restrictions imposed by proprietary licenses. Besides, citizens are not too happy when they have to finance the research and buy the product when it is released. A list was created ([20]fsfe-france-sci@gnu.org) to discuss this subject. Volunteers: Joris Van der Hoven, Gilles Veillon, Jeremy Nestel, Jérôme Pansanel [21]Community Positioning System (Coposys). Olivier Berger [22]proposed a project to visualize Free Software friends around the globe. Cyril Bouthors [23]implemented and installed a first version and hundreds of people registered from all over the world. Volunteers: Cyril Bouthors, Olivier Berger. [24]Electronic Voting An information page on electronic voting issues was produced to highlight the importance of Free Software in these matter. We do not have the ambition to spend time to try to solve this enormous problem at present. We merely keep in touch with french people interested in the subject and store information. Volunteers: Olivier Berger, Loïc Dachary. [25]Press Review Nicole Ciry and Gilles Veillon launched the project of gathering french articles about Free Software. They produced a methodology, explained it in a web page and gather a copy of the first articles. Those articles are sent once a month to the FSF in Boston and the first shipment was made early July. Volunteers: Nicole Ciry, Gilles Veillon. GNU project information relay (was GNU help desk) ([26]previous report) In the previous report this was listed as GNU help desk which was kind of inaccurate. The proximity of french people involved in the GNU project makes it easier for other french people to get involved in the GNU project, in a way or another. Some developers come to us for various points related to the GNU project: + A software they wrote is being evaluated for inclusion in the GNU project. These requests are handled thru [27]the fsfe-eval@gnu.org mailing list. + They wrote a software and wonder what it means to become part of the GNU project. + They would like to help in the system administration of the GNU project. + They have an idea to improve the infrastructure of the GNU project. We had many contacts are related to these points. Here are the two most pro-eminent. Loïc Dachary got involved in the evaluation of a software that wanted to become part of the GNU project ([28]phpGroupWare). It was the occasion for him to get practical experience of this process in order to better answer questions. A pretty [29]long thread regarding the rationale of the evaluation process and other issues related to GNU was launched by Denis Barbier. His critic views and comparisons with the Debian process are very valuable, specially since he is not a member of the GNU project. To be completely honest no visible modifications of the GNU project are a direct consequence of this discussion. Mainly because Loïc Dachary is postponing this for no other reason than lack of time. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary. GNU and Debian French people involved in the GNU, Debian and FreeBSD project [30]met to drink a beer and share their experiences. This was a chance to know each other and discover possible cooperation grounds. No report of this meeting is available, unfortunately. We had another opportunity to meet and discuss during the [31]LSM since the [32]Debian conference 1 was hosted by LSM. As a direct consequence of these talks, some concrete things happened. That may not be all, but that is what we are aware of. + Loïc Dachary who is a [33]member of the GNU project also became a [34]Debian developer + Igor Genibel who is a [35]Debian developer also became a [36]member of the GNU project. + Martin Michlmayr, a leading force of the [37]Debian QA group (re)joined the [38]GNU project to improve the QA of GNU with the help of the Debian tools. Of course we discussed a lot about the philosophical issues that keep the GNU and Debian organizations apart. The GNU project would like to see the explicit support of non free software removed from the Debian social contract and identification of the software packages in the main part of Debian that do not qualify as Free Software according to GNU. Solving these issues is an on-going effort on both sides. The Debian community also has some claims for the GNU project and [39]Denis Barbier voiced some of them. Volunteers: Raphaël Rousseau, Loïc Dachary, Olivier Berger. [40]Technopole Logiciel Libre ([41]previous report) Frédéric Couchet maintains good relationships with the Technopole Logiciel Libre. A result of this cooperation was the interview of Philippe Carpentier on Internet actu video newspaper. The Technopole Logiciel Libre was also invited to [42]LSM where Philippe Carpentier made a speech to explain the goals and philosophy of the project. Philippe Carpentier proposed to launch a European contest for Free Software and is working on this idea with Frédéric Couchet. Volunteers: Frédéric Couchet, Loïc Dachary, Philippe Carpentier, Pierre Jarret [43]Savannah and Europe: CoopX ([44]previous report) The contacts we had with hosting platforms similar to [45]Savannah in France triggered the creation of a working group called [46]CoopX. The goal of this working group is to define an interchange format between hosting platforms. [47]SourceForge, [48]phpGroupWare joined the working group shortly after its creation. CoopX was also pleased to welcome [49]TuxFamily, a cooperatively run hosting facility run by french volunteers. Although we are a founding member of CoopX, the project itself is neither hosted nor ruled by us. It is a strictly cooperative effort and every group willing to participate actively is welcome. Even non free software groups, as long as the format is decided cooperatively and released under a license that has the same qualities as the GNU FDL. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary, Christian Bac, Samuel Tardieu, Dan Kuykendall, Tim Perdue and many others. Links with Free Software organizations In the network of Free Software organizations we actively worked to establish contacts in order to be able to actually do things in a coordinated way. The ideal situation would be that each organization in a given geographical location is able quickly establish contact with any other organization over the world for a given action related to education, software development or political issues. The following list is a map of the network involving at least one person from FSF France or APRIL. * [50]FSF. * [51]FSF Europe. * [52]FSF Canada. * [53]FSF India. * [54]FSF China. * FSF Japan. * [55]AFSM. * [56]GNU Spain. * [57]ABUL. * [58]ALDIL. * [59]ALL. * [60]AGIL. * [61]Associazione Software Libero. * [62]AAUL. At present we cannot claim any world wide coordinated action but we sincerely hope it will happen, on the subject of patents for instance. Do you want to take the lead ?-) FSF France is tightly bound to APRIL and we had four meetings in the past three months. Two meeting reports are available. * [63]July 23 2001 * [64]June 12 2001 A Free Software organization ([65]AGIL) is being created in Portugal. A lot of discussions with APRIL were engaged to share their experience. A similar dialog is being established with Masayuki Ida to create a Free Software organization in Japan. Masayuki Ida will be visiting France in October and he wants to meet with APRIL activists on this subject. Matthias Saou, former president of the french organization ALDIL moved to Spain recently and agreed to act as a liaison with Jose Marchesi and GNU Spain. GNU project ([66]previous report) [67]Usenix award During the 2001 Usenix conference in Boston, Robert Chassel received an award in the name of all the contributors to the GNU project. We are proud to broadcast this award to all the people who contributed to the GNU project thru FSF France recently, by installing the first machine of the GNU project outside the US (fr.fsf.org) or by contributing to the hardware upgrade of Savannah (savannah.gnu.org). [68]Sysadmin fr.fsf.org Rodolphe Quiedeville, Cedric Valignat and Jean-Louis Bergamot are also doing occasional system administration on the GNU machine in France and were very efficient when handling a minor security alert. Cedric is now taking care of the Internet connection of the GNU machine in France and is in contact with Joel N Weber II for this purpose. Volunteers: Rodolphe Quiedeville, Cedric Valignat, Jean-Louis Bergamot, Loïc Dachary, Joel N. Weber II, Frédéric Couchet. [69]Savannah ([70]previous report) The [71]installation of the new hardware allowed Savannah to grow. It is now serving more than 200 projects and around 1 500 members joined it. The most important event is that Savannah is now open to Free Software projects that do not (yet ;-) joined the GNU project. This allows candidate packages to the GNU project to develop and grow while going thru the application process. At present 87 such projects are hosted on Savannah. Now that phpGroupWare is dubbed a GNU package, the perspective of migrating the software used to run Savannah under phpGroupWare is more likely to become a reality. At present, there is no concrete plan in this direction but it is actively discussed. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary, Jaime Villate, Guillaume Morin, Joel N. Weber II, Mark H. Weaver. [72]GNU Search As of today the [73]GNU search team was created to maintain and improve the search facility of the GNU project. Cyril Bouthors, Igor Genibel and Helios de Creisquer launched this project. They started as volunteer system administrators of the GNU machine in France (fr.fsf.org). By doing simple tasks in this context they became familiar with the GNU project and proposed to become more commited to the infrastructure. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary, Cyril Bouthors, Igor Genibel, Helios de Creisquer. [74]GNU DNS Joel N. Weber II monitored the fr.fsf.org machine during a few weeks and found that it could do a reasonable secondary name server for the gnu.org domain. He installed it about a month ago and it's running fine. Should the north American continent disappear the domain will still be resolved :-} Volunteers: Joel N. Weber II, Loïc Dachary, Cyril Bouthors. Events and advocacy We would like to acknowledge the countless advocacy efforts made by people tuned on the [75]FSF France mailing list. All of them would deserve an entry in this report, laziness is the only reason why they do not show. We miss some bits such as interviews (Europe II Bordeaux for instance) we never had a chance to listen. If you heard about them, please [76]send us a note. [77]Microsoft FUD ([78]previous report) We relayed press releases. RMS speech was translated and broadcasted. We did not do anything significant at the national level. Unisys studies Free Software ([79]previous report) Unisys politely dismissed our help proposal to write the report, although they invited us to feed them with data. That was not what we wanted. Richard M. Stallman suggested that the best course of action would be to publish an article explaining why the study conducted by Unisys could be biased. Nobody took the task and the report is probably finished by now. We failed on this advocacy issue. BBC World BBC World wanted to interview a Free Software advocate for a television show in London. We proposed that Phil Hands speak in our name. A short time frame did not leave much room for cooperation and it turned out that the journalist really wanted a confrontation between the proprietary world and the Free Software world. At present it is still unclear what the result will be. If you ever see the show, let us know. Volunteers: Phil Hands, Richard M. Stallman, Frédéric Couchet, Loïc Dachary. [80]Le Journal du Net ([81]previous report) This well known french online newspaper changed their category entitled Open Source to Logiciel Libre. We are not entirely happy about the accuracy of their articles but they show a good will that we find remarkable. [82]FAQ hardware producers Marc-Aurèle Darche and Philippe Coulonges wrote a FAQ to inform hardware producers about the advantages of Free Software drivers. This is the first work that involves a cooperation between APRIL, AFUL and FSF France. Marc-Aurèle Darche deserves all the credit for making this joint effort a reality. Although FSF France will not endorse the document produced because it partially advocates for the Open Source movement, working on it allowed us to contribute to the ideas related to Free Software. We will keep the draft directory alive even after the release of the FAQ to show how it evolved. In my eyes it is a nice example of the fundamental difference between the Open Source movement and the Free Software movement. Some people claim Free Software and Open Source are two words on top of the same movement ? Check the [83]first version of the document, rather Open Source style and the [84]second version proposed, more Free Software style. You will see a visible difference in the spirit and very few differences in the wording. Volunteers: Marc-Aurèle Darche, Philippe Coulonges. [85]DCSSI and GNU PG The french government defines a list of software accredited to provide encryption. During LSM Werner Koch asked for volunteers to register GNUPG. Some people show interest to do that but the action did not start yet. [86]CEENET Sebastien Blondeel is attending CEENET in Hungaria (August 20). He will bring goodies from APRIL and FSF Europe and spread the word in our name. He will meet Shooby Ban who is potentially interested in launching a Free Software dedicated organization. People attending CEENET are not specifically interested in Free Software, that makes his mission even more interesting. Volunteers: Sebastien Blondeel. [87]Unesco We engaged a discussion with Unesco on the subject of their Free Software portal because we feel that its content is problematic in many ways. The people are responsive and we sent them a proposal to replace the license page. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary. [88]SourceForge and VA Linux We are helping VA Linux to produce a copyright assignment form for SourceForge authors. The experience of the FSF in this matter is valuable. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary. [89]Propriété intellectuelle , Copyright, Brevets, logiciels libres A special issue of the french magazine MULTITUDE was published on the subject of copyright, patents and free software. It features articles from Richard M. Stallman and Eben Moglen and many other Free Software advocates. Frédéric Couchet and Benjamin Drieu were very involved in making this special issue a reality. Volunteers: Frédéric Couchet, Benjamin Drieu. [90]Libre Software Meeting The event was far too rich to summarize in this report. To our knowledge it is the only event in the world exclusively dedicated to Free Software and organized only by volunteers. Hundreds of users and developers from all around the world attended this event. When compared to events like LinuxWord where at least half the people and organizations present are indeed interested or involved in non free software, it makes a huge difference. Some [91]pictures were taken for the record. Next year event will be organized together with the FSF France, with [92]technical help from the GNU project. We had the opportunity to [93]meet people involved in Free Software organizations from all over the world. Frédéric Couchet and Carl W. Vilbrandt organized and participated to the [94]Law, Economy, Politic and libre software session. Frédéric Couchet introduced the FSF Europe to the audience in a one hour speech. Loïc Dachary was an informal spoke-person of the [95]AFSM during the [96]AAUL meeting. Loïc Dachary shortly spoke about Savannah during the [97]Libre Software for Communication session. The FSF France actively participated to the discussions of the [98]APRIL members Convention. Jaime Villate also attended the event in the name of the future Free Software organization (AGIL will be the name) that is being created in Portugal. INJEP INJEP is launching courses for administrations and non profit organizations in France. These courses are co-financed by the government and cost 500 F for one day. Benjamin Drieu and Jeremy Nestel did some work on a three days course on Free Software at the initiation level. Although not certain yet, this can lead to a cheap way for people to be introduced to the Free Software tools. This project is at a very early stage and volunteers are very needed. Volunteers: Jeremy Nestel, Benjamin Drieu, Frédéric Couchet. Information infrastructure [99]FSF Europe migration The [100]FSF Europe web was migrated to the france.fsfeurope.org machine. This was mainly done to ease the maintainance process of the web and increase the page generation rate without risking to overload the gnudist.gnu.org machine which is already hosting the [101]GNU web site. Volunteers: Frédéric Couchet, Loïc Dachary Contact Database ([102]previous report) This area was rather neglected and did not progress much. The situation improved a little since Bradley M. Kuhn explained in detail what we would need and made contacts with Dan Kuykendall on this subject. We also discovered that XML Vcard was published earlier this year by W3C and this will definitely be the format on which we will be working. Volunteers: Bradley M. Kuhn, Loïc Dachary. [103]Web standards A script repository was created so that directories on various GNU machines handling web sites can use them. The first script to enter the arena is a symbolic link builder for CVS HTML pages. The task of improving the web standards is enormous. However, it is a very rewarding since it brings results rapidly. A rather unexpected improvement comes from [104]the hardware FAQ. The authors use the technical infrastructure of the GNU project to publish their drafts. Since the source format is DocBook, we had some interesting exchanges on formating issues. It appears that the machine fr.fsf.org now has a proper set of software to produce output from DocBook sources. Since there also exist a translator from DocBook to texinfo, one might be tempted to write DocBook documents from now on. This is food for thought, there are many issues to consider, one of which being the relatively immature state of the Free Software DocBook formating tools. Volunteers: Jaime Villate, Paul Vischer, Loïc Dachary, Richard M. Stallman, Marc-Aurèle Darche [105]Audio and video repository A large audio and video repository was created. The primary purpose is to store the FSF Award 2000 video file (1.2Gb) and 400Mb audio files. There is a total of 22Gb available. Volunteers: Loïc Dachary [106]News channel The RSS based news channel of FSF France is available on FSF Europe. Olivier Berger enhanced it to display only the latest news on the front page and all the archives in the news subdirectory. They are now dispatched on a daily basis by mail on the [107]fsfe-newsfr-en@gnu.org and [108]fsfe-newsfr-fr@gnu.org mailing-lists (resp. in english, and in french). This allows people interested in Free Software movement to keep informed of FSF France activity. To subscribe to this mailing-list, [109]send a mail to fsfe-newsfr-en-request@gnu.org with the subject "subscribe" Volunteers: Olivier Berger, Loïc Dachary Administrativia [110]Donations ([111]previous report) We did not chase donations and (what a surprise ;-) nobody sent a cent to FSF France in the past months. The good news is that we did not spend any money either. Cyril Bouthors and Noémie Roche [112]worked hard on the tax deductibility issue. The papers were sent to the administration and we are waiting for their answer. Volunteers: Olivier Berger, Raphaël Rousseau, Frédéric Couchet, Loïc Dachary, Noémie Roche, Cyril Bouthors. Business Cards A new set of 200 business cards was produced for future events. Volunteers: Frédéric Couchet [113]Loïc Dachary Updated: $Date: 2001/08/21 23:47:22 $ $Author: loic $ References 1. http://france.fsfeurope.org/ 2. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html 3. http://lsm.abul.org/ 4. http://savannah.gnu.org/ 5. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html 6. http://france.fsfeurope.org/gpl/ 7. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#gplfrench 8. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-17-01.fr.html 9. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-15-01.fr.html 10. http://lsm.abul.org/ 11. http://www.april.org/actions/brevets/academie.html 12. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-06-26-01.fr.html 13. http://france.fsfeurope.org/libre.en.html 14. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#freedom 15. http://www.ofset.org/ 16. http://www.gnu.org/education/ 17. http://www.ofset.org/information/papers/free-software-and-education-fr.html 18. http://savannah.gnu.org/project/memberlist.php?group_id=200 19. http://france.fsfeurope.org/science/ 20. http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-france-sci/ 21. http://france.fsfeurope.org/coposys/ 22. http://savannah.gnu.org/pm/task.php?func=detailtask&project_task_id=156&group_id=53&group_project_id=48 23. http://france.fsfeurope.org/coposys/ 24. http://france.fsfeurope.org/voting/voting.en.html 25. http://france.fsfeurope.org/collecte.en.html 26. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#gnuinfo 27. http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-eval/ 28. http://www.phpgroupware.org/ 29. http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/fsfe-france/2001-June/000694.html 30. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-06-05-01.fr.html 31. http://lsm.abul.org/ 32. http://lsm.abul.org/program/topic20/topic20.php3 33. http://www.gnu.org/people/ 34. http://nm.debian.org/nmstatus.php?email=loic%40senga.org 35. http://www.debian.org/devel/people 36. 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http://lsm.abul.org/program/topic05/topic05.php3 98. http://lsm.abul.org/program/topic21/topic21.php3 99. http://www.fsfeurope.org/ 100. http://www.fsfeurope.org/ 101. http://www.gnu.org/ 102. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#contact 103. http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/www/ 104. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-08-20-01.en.xhtml#faq 105. http://audio-video.gnu.org/ 106. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/ 107. http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-newsfr-en 108. http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfe-newsfr-fr 109. mailto:fsfe-newsfr-en-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe 110. http://france.fsfeurope.org/donations/donations.en.html 111. http://france.fsfeurope.org/news/article2001-05-20-01.en.html#donations 112. http://savannah.gnu.org/pm/task.php?func=detailtask&project_task_id=141&group_id=53&group_project_id=37 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 05:03:21 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:33:21 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Wired News :Linux Comes to the Big Screen In-Reply-To: <200108211516.IAA06089@fastbreak.hotwired.com> References: <200108211516.IAA06089@fastbreak.hotwired.com> Message-ID: <86k7zwptye.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> tittyjacob@sify.com (Titty Jacob) writes: > From Wired News, available online at: > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,41536,00.html > Revolution O.S. was made by J.T.S. Moore, who was totally unfamiliar > with the open source community when he started the project. He is definitely, totally, completely clueless even after completing the project: > At the end of the project Moore found he'd turned into an open source > advocate -- but with some reservations. > Moore thinks the biggest threat to the success of the open source > movement is piracy, not Microsoft. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Who will save us from "open source advocates" like Mr. Moore? -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 21 06:54:24 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:24:24 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [Debate] On Free Software and Freedom Message-ID: Really worth reading. To my surprise, FSF appears to be on "weaker" moral ground in this debate (a rare event). For detailed reading, please visit the _Linux Today_ site. -- Raj ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Linux Today (http://www.linuxtoday.com/) "Freedom Zero" and "Freedom or Power" : Tim O'Reilly and FSF Leaders Debate. Followed by Eric Raymond on "Freedom, Power, or Confusion?" Aug 17, 2001, 17:38 UTC Tim O'Reilly: Some people might not recognize the reference to "Freedom Zero" as a takeoff on the first of Richard Stallman's four freedoms from the Free Software Definition." Bradley Kuhn and Richard M. Stallman: Tim O'Reilly says the most fundamental software freedom is: "The freedom to choose any license you want for software you write." Unstated, but clearly implied, is that one person or corporation chooses the rules to impose on everyone else. In the world that O'Reilly proposes, a few make the basic software decisions for everyone. That is power, not freedom. He should call it "powerplay zero" in contrast with our "freedom zero". O'Reilly's Response: "Bradley clearly misunderstands my article and my argument. First off, if you accept his definition of freedom as "being able to make decisions that affect mainly you" versus power as "being able to make decisions that affect others more than you", then clearly the GPL is just as much about "power" as any Microsoft license, since it is binding on all who use the software, and has the explicit goal of "world domination." Eric Raymond: Freedom, Power, or Confusion? In a reply to Tim O'Reilly, Bradley Kuhn and Richard Stallman illustrate once again why the FSF's use of the word `freedom' is ... well, I'll say "confusing", though stronger terms suggest themselves. They begin by writing "Power is being able to make decisions that affect others more than you. If we confuse power with freedom, we will fail to uphold real freedom." Thus, far I agree with them. Tim asserts that the most fundamental software freedom is the freedom to choose any license you want for the software you write. Kuhn and Stallman reply (unstated, but clearly implied) is "that one person or corporation chooses the rules to impose on everyone else." ================================================================ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 05:35:04 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Amitabh Trehan) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] FSF/GNU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010822053505.71384.qmail@web12205.mail.yahoo.com> --0-225654398-998458504=:71376 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi, are there any spare FSF-India T-shirts? Many in Delhi have shown interest in them , even reproducing them here. Amitabh ===== ######============================############# TrYinG To TaCkLe (La)TeX & Co. #####=============================############# __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ --0-225654398-998458504=:71376-- From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 05:49:17 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Radhakrishnan CV) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:19:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] FSF/GNU In-Reply-To: <20010822053505.71384.qmail@web12205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 at 22:35, Amitabh Trehan wrote: are there any spare FSF-India T-shirts? Unfortunately all are sold out! Many in Delhi have shown interest in them, even reproducing them here. That will be great. I can send you all the images in pdf format. TUGIndia are going to make T-Shirt for TUG 2002 soon with Duane Bibby's graphic and along with it, we shall order a few hundred pieces of FSF India T-Shirt too. -- Radhakrishnan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 16:07:47 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (TUGIndia) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:37:47 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] TeXLive 6 Message-ID: TeXLive version 6 has been released and can be had from Indian TeX Users Group. TeX Live CD-ROM contains ready-to-run TeX systems for GNU/Linux, most types of Unix and Windows 95/NT, and a very complete tree of fonts and macros arranged according to the standard TeX directory structure (TDS). The TeX Live CD has been developed since 1996 by collaboration between the TeX Users Group (TUG), and the TeX user groups of the the Czech Republic, France, Germany, India, Netherlands, Poland, Slovakia and the UK. The sixth edition is based on Web2c 7.3.3 and teTeX 1.0, but contains additions and extensions to both these systems. Very many packages on the CD have changed in some way since 2000, and many new ones have been added. With TeX Live, you can either run directly off the CD, or install programs to your hard disk, using a simple install program. For more details visit: http://www.tug.org/texlive.html Please write to Shan if you want to obtain TeXLive CD with a demand draft for Rs. 500 (cost+forwarding) favouring Indian TeX Users Group on any Bank in Trivandrum. Indian TeX Users Group 3rd Floor, SJP Buildings Cottons Hills, Trivandrum 695014 Tel 0471 33 7502 From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 11:59:27 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:29:27 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] FEATURE: You've got mail... WAPpop proves helpful... Message-ID: INDIA-MOBILE-SOFTWARE YOU'VE GOT MAIL... WAPpop PROVES HELPFUL TO MOBILE PHONE USERS by Frederick Noronha MUMBAI -- Mobile phone users are facing an easier task to download their e-mail, thanks to the efforts of a Indian medico from the city of Nagpur who has written a freely-distributable software program called WAPpop. It is drawing hundreds of downloads each day after an upgrade to the software program which was done some weeks back. Mobile phone users have access to phone services while on move, but they need a computer in order to have a look at their e-mail. "WAPpop was written keeping the above problem in mind. So that they can have access, to have a glance on their e-mail while on move," says Dr Tarique Sani. He told this correspondent that by using a WAP (wireless-access protocol) enabled device, like a phone, PDA, or palmtops, the software he wrote -- which is called WAPpop -- can read mail from an Internet server, reply or forward mail, even delete mail and send new messages. The paedetrician-turned-software guru says he WAPpop still remains the only OpenSource software of its kind in India. It was also the first OpenSource software doing its job listed on prestigious international website Freshmeat.net when the first version was released in July 2000. Some weeks back, the software was upgraded. OpenSource is a type of specially-licensed software code that offers its users freedom to use and adapt. This form of collaboratively writing software through the efforts of volunteers worldwide has been making news, because of some excellent products it has generated. WAPpop is an WAP based email client. "Just as Hotmail is an Web based email client and can be accessed through a web browser (by going to the web site), WAPpop can be acccessed thru a WAP device accessing a WAP site which is running WAPpop. WAPpop need not be downloaded to PDAs (personal digital assistants) or other such hand-held devices. This software program is written using PHP, which is a platform-independant server-side scripting language. The OS (operating system) used by the wireless device does not come into the picture except for display. Due to this, WAPpop is best suited for the service provider for giving value-added services from their WAPsites. Recent upgrades have also been attracting attention of computer users worldwide. Says Sani: "The response has by far surpassed expectations. Before the release of second version the downloads (by persons seeking a copy of the software) had tapered down to an average of 1000 per month. The downloads for second version have been an average of 500 per day (soon after it was upgraded in end-June this year)." Sani believes that this WAP-based software could have a lot more potential if the use of WAP devices increases. Presently, he concedes, the tiny-screen and cumbersome typing procedures are a "major hurdle" for anyone wanting to use such wireless devices to access the Internet. There is also limited bandwidth available for WAP. But this could change in the near future. What prompted the paedetrician-forensic medico to take up this unusual project? Says Sani: "When we started this project WAP was a hot technology around the world. Unfortunately most of the WAP development was centered around Microsoft's ASP." But Sani himself "loves PHP", which is the OpenSource's answer to ASP and the most popular web-scripting language around the world. "I felt that I could make a mark for PHP, OpenSource and in turn myself in the WAP world and to that extent I feel this project has been a success," says he. Sani, a doctor by education having done his post graduation in Pediatrics and Forensic Medicine, opted for becoming the CTO (chief technical officer) of his own web-engineering company called SANIsoft based in the Central Indian city of Nagpur. This small firm specialise in web development using Open Source technologies mainly PHP, MySQL/PostgreSQL, Apache running on Linux and more recently running on Windows servers. Sani says modestly that he is not the "lone author of WAPpop", but two other programmers in SANIsoft, Girish Nair and Vinay Kumar, have made "significant contributions to the code". Inspite of its immense potential as a software superpower, India's contribution to OpenSource software has still been rather small. Says Sani: "I wish that it was better. It has the potential to be much better." He feels that Indian students and professionals simply don't have the spare time to contribute enough to this international volunteer-effort at generating high-quality software code. Encouragement is lacking too, but this is beginning to change as more Indian corporates behing to take to GNU/Linux, the 'free' computer operating system, he notes. (ENDS) LINK: Contact Dr Sani at tarique@sanisoft.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 22 17:54:21 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 22 Aug 2001 23:24:21 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] [Debate] On Free Software and Freedom In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86ofp8yo8i.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raj Singh writes: > Really worth reading. To my surprise, FSF appears to be on "weaker" moral > ground in this debate (a rare event). Dear Raj, Please enlighten us as to why *you* think we are on "weaker moral ground in this debate." Since RMS and Brad may not have the time to monitor this list, it just *might* be that others on this list may be able to debate this with you and convince you that we are, in fact, NOT on "weaker" moral grounds. Thank you. > For detailed reading, please visit > the _Linux Today_ site. > > -- Raj > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Linux Today (http://www.linuxtoday.com/) > > "Freedom Zero" and "Freedom or Power" : Tim O'Reilly and FSF Leaders > Debate. Followed by Eric Raymond on "Freedom, Power, or Confusion?" > > Aug 17, 2001, 17:38 UTC > > Tim O'Reilly: > > Some people might not recognize the reference to "Freedom Zero" as a > takeoff on the first of Richard Stallman's four freedoms from the Free > Software Definition." > > Bradley Kuhn and Richard M. Stallman: > > Tim O'Reilly says the most fundamental software freedom is: "The freedom to > choose any license you want for software you write." Unstated, but clearly > implied, is that one person or corporation chooses the rules to impose on > everyone else. In the world that O'Reilly proposes, a few make the basic > software decisions for everyone. That is power, not freedom. He should call > it "powerplay zero" in contrast with our "freedom zero". > > O'Reilly's Response: > > "Bradley clearly misunderstands my article and my argument. First off, if > you accept his definition of freedom as "being able to make decisions that > affect mainly you" versus power as "being able to make decisions that > affect others more than you", then clearly the GPL is just as much about > "power" as any Microsoft license, since it is binding on all who use the > software, and has the explicit goal of "world domination." > > Eric Raymond: Freedom, Power, or Confusion? > > In a reply to Tim O'Reilly, Bradley Kuhn and Richard Stallman illustrate > once again why the FSF's use of the word `freedom' is ... well, I'll say > "confusing", though stronger terms suggest themselves. > > They begin by writing "Power is being able to make decisions that affect > others more than you. If we confuse power with freedom, we will fail to > uphold real freedom." Thus, far I agree with them. > > Tim asserts that the most fundamental software freedom is the freedom to > choose any license you want for the software you write. Kuhn and Stallman > reply (unstated, but clearly implied) is "that one person or corporation > chooses the rules to impose on everyone else." > > ================================================================ > > _______________________________________________ > http://gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-india > > -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 02:39:03 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:09:03 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [Gnu-India]Re: GNU Project List In-Reply-To: <20010823020753.61760.qmail@web11703.mail.yahoo.com> References: <15236.4321.666981.264477@ab.cdclinux.com> <20010823020753.61760.qmail@web11703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15236.27847.849342.975093@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Naheed Here you go for Netfilter Port to GNU/Hurd Project ABOUT NETFILTER: ================ Netfilter is just a framework for building NAT and filtering. Netfilter base code hooks into the protocol stack at various spots. For example if you take TCP/IP stack, there are 5 hooks * LOCAL IN Packets for this(local) machine * LOCAL OUT Packets from this machine * PRE-ROUTING Packets entering this machine from network. It might be for this machine or routed thru this machine * POST-ROUTING Packets leaving this machine. May be from this machine or a packet routed thru this machine. * FORWARDING Packets routed thru ur machine. So using these hooks it provides a framework to register tables and modules. Tables contains rules passed from user space thru iptables command. These rules contain typically a match and a target. When ever a packet enters the Netfilter framework, it is passed thru these rules. If a packet is matched with a rule ,it will be passwd to the target module. The target module can decide the fate of the packet. ENVIRONMENT: ============ A real battle ground for Netfilter environment will be * a network with atleast 100+ users connected to other intranet/internet * Netfilter box with 2.4.x kernel with 2 ethernet cards * and lot of time to experiment. For a developer: Even if you don't have such an env, you can still do ur development on a single machine. You can test simple rules on loopback (127.0.0.1). You are just doing porting. Netfilter is already a proven implementation. After porting, there are users to help us in testing. FOR DEVELOPER: ============== We are very very lucky :) Because The Hurd's TCP/IP stack is port(copied:) from Linux 2.2 kernel. So it shouldn't be difficult for us to port Netfilter to Hurd. For all these steps, you have to constantly work with me. Don't ever hesitate to ask even the stupidest question. You never know how many others have the same question. Next step is: Step 1* Get urself familiarized with Netfilter usage Read NAT-HowTo and Filtering-HowTo Step 2* OK, Now you are ready for hacking Read Netfilter-Hackers Guide. Understand the design/implementation of Netfilter. Step 3* Browse the source code of TCP/IP stack and NetFilter. There are other guides of Rusty Russell. They are Kernel hackers guide and Kernel Locking guide. They are not necessary. Because in Hurd, we do it in user space. Its easy. I expect lot of mails from you here after. I've no plans for LA, But I will be in Fremont(CA) next week most probably. Best Regards ab Naheed Vora writes: > Hi ab, > I am happy to have your permission as well as sureity > of guidance for the project. I met the professor today > and he is ready to help me through. I am not sure if I > will take as my credits or else as funtime project, > but I am seriously looking forward to work on this > project. The prof. will sit along with me and discuss > the framework and architecture of Netfilter translator > may be next week. I will keep you updated with the > progress and solicit your help whenever required. > > Do let me know if you are planning to come to LA > during your visit to US. We can meet if you happen to > come to LA, > > C ya, > Bye, > Naheed -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 04:14:27 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 23 Aug 2001 09:44:27 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] [Debate] On Free Software and Freedom In-Reply-To: <86ofp8yo8i.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> References: <86ofp8yo8i.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <86ae0r9zvg.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> klak@giasbm01.vsnl.net.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) writes: > Raj Singh writes: > > > Really worth reading. To my surprise, FSF appears to be on "weaker" moral > > ground in this debate (a rare event). > > Dear Raj, > > Please enlighten us as to why *you* think we are on "weaker moral > ground in this debate." > > Since RMS and Brad may not have the time to monitor this list, it just > *might* be that others on this list may be able to debate this with > you and convince you that we are, in fact, NOT on "weaker" moral grounds. I apologize for sounding so "combative!" My feeble excuse is that it was really late late in the night when I wrote that. Sorry. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 06:31:11 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (fsf-india@gnu.org.in) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:01:11 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Free Software related Projects in India Message-ID: <20010823120111.A525@orion> Hi friends, FSF India had informed Government of West Bengal its opinion on Governments recent initiative to join hands with proprietary software companies. It would be nice if some one from West Bengal could follow up the issue and let us know what is going on. We need to make a catalogue of various Free Software related projects going on in India(not only the software development project, but relating to Freedom) and people and organisations providing services on Free Software. Any comments ? Arun. BTW Anand Babu, I've seen a list of projects sent by you to GNU-India list. Can you forward the same to this list. We will add them to www.gnu.org.in. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 13:01:57 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:31:57 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Malayalam support for GNU/Linux References: Message-ID: <3B84FEC5.E9224EB2@ti.com> Radhakrishnan CV wrote: > > The software used are gtk+-1.3.5, pango-0.16. The sources will be > released soon. A screen shot can be had at: > > http://www.tugindia.org.in/malayalam/malayalam.jpg > > Its is just in alpha stage and you can expect a few bugs. Comments > are welcome. That's really great!!! Congratulations to the team. By the way, I came accross a page, which says that NCST is doing a project called "Localisation of 'Linux'". See this page for details http://www.tdil.gov.in/ongoing_proj.html -- Ramakrishnan M World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 13:28:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (raj kumar) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 06:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF India]GNU Project List In-Reply-To: <15236.27847.849342.975093@ab.cdclinux.com> Message-ID: <20010823132830.68157.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> --- "M.P.Anand Babu" wrote: Hi ab, nice to see you again!!! I am certainly interested in this. > Next step is: > Step 1* Get urself familiarized with Netfilter usage > Read NAT-HowTo and Filtering-HowTo > Step 2* OK, Now you are ready for hacking > Read Netfilter-Hackers Guide. > Understand the design/implementation of > Netfilter. > Step 3* Browse the source code of TCP/IP stack > and NetFilter. Once upon a time I had hacked together a masq module for H.323 for 2.0.36 kernel and I used to follow the netfilter list for quite some time. But I am quite new to hurd developement. I also do not know how much time I can spend for this. But I will certainly try to contribute some thing. Is there a mail list for this work? raj raj@gnu.org.in __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 23 18:12:53 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:42:53 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Free Software related Projects in India In-Reply-To: <20010823120111.A525@orion> References: <20010823120111.A525@orion> Message-ID: <15237.18341.982390.198278@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Arun > We need to make a catalogue of various Free Software related > projects going on in India(not only the software development project, > but relating to Freedom) and people and organisations providing > services on Free Software. > > Any comments ? This should be first step to proceed. Yes Not just software, any initiative towards Freedom. > BTW Anand Babu, I've seen a list of projects sent by you to > GNU-India list. Can you forward the same to this list. We will > add them to www.gnu.org.in. I have pasted the list along with this mail. This list is too informal to get into the website. I prefer a proper work structure before they all become official. A proper work structure will have * Project RoadMap * Project Admin/Coordinator, Team Members, Doc Writer, Release Technician ... * Atleast one tar ball release (atleast beta) * Documentation * GNU GPL/Equivalent License By doing this way it becomes easier for others to join the team and easily contribute either by coding or testing. All this step is required to make the first official release. Till that stage mailing list will to. I use sourceforge.net as by /tmp and when 0.1 ver is ready, I move to savannah.gnu.org This list is cutcopied from a mail. BTW lets move the gnu-india.org mailing list to FSF-I list. It takes pain to move all that 108 subscribers all of a sudden to this list. But we need to avoid duplication !! 1) GNU Messenger: by ab, Bala, Mridul Jain, Parag Mehta, Jeffrin GNU Messenger for Yahoo services with a console based geeky readline and guile interface. It started a fun project, but today its production ready. Main motivation behind the project is to spread the power of GUILE and READLINE librady. You have shown ur interest in Lisp I'm writing more about Guile here, because Guile is a dialect of Lisp and one of the most important project of GNU. Like you, we all believe that Lisp is Next Generation Language. Its going to reappear soon. Its the only answer for AI and Next Generation Computing. Guile is *Project GNU's extension language* Guile is a library designed to help programmers create flexible applications. Using Guile in an application allows programmers to write plug-ins, or modules (there are many names, but the concept is essentially the same) and users to use them to have an application fit their needs. Guile is an interpreter for the Scheme programming language, packaged as a library which can be incorporated into your programs. Your users have full access to the interpreter, so Guile itself can be extended, based on the needs of the user. The result is a scripting language tailored to your application. For more info visit http://www.gnu.org/software/guile 2) Cool Hurd Translators: Translator itself is cool concept in GNU/Hurd. Here are some translators written by college students in this list: * bzip2 translator: Ankur, Shikka and Venkat wrote this translator. This when mapped on a file, you can do bzip compressed I/O. * reverse translator: Written by Ramesh. When mapped to a file, what ever you write to it, you can read the reverse of them. * Tar file system translator: Again by Ramesh. Ramesh got the name "Tarzen" because of this TAR project. You can mount a tar file as file system using this translator. This project is still in initial stages. * Quote translator: You can map this as ur .signature, /etc/issues, /etc/motd and so on and get random quotes on the fly. Every time when you read from this file, you get random quotes from its database. 3) Visual Emacs Calculator: by Pradhap This is written in Emacs Lisp. He is currently busy with MP3 player for GNU Emacs. 4) GNU Hurd Asynchronous Message Debugger: This project is given to me by RMS. It should facilitate a mechanism to debug(record/replay) asynchronous messages between GNU Mach and GNU Hurd. 5) MiG -> CORBA: By Mridul Jain and ab MiG is obsolete interface and Mach Specific. This project replaces MiG with CORBA standards to make GNU/Hurd language independent and distributed. This is extremely big project. 6) Linux Device Drivers Emulation in Hurd Space: By ab, Bala and Mridul Emulating Linux Device Drivers in user space. GNU Mach is only a micro kernel. Santhanu Goel emulated Linux SCSI and Network drivers inside GNU Mach. But GNU Mach bloats up in size and loses the Mirco Kernel stature. But by bringing the drivers to user space we have lots of advantages like system stability, modularization ease of development/maintainability. 7) Porting Netfilter to Hurd By ab Netfilter is NAT/Firewall framework in Linux 2.4.x kernel. This should be ported to GNU Hurd/Pfinet. Hurd's TCP/IP stack is derived from Linux kernel and because of that porting Netfilter to Hurd shouldn't be difficult. 8) GNU/Hurd Distribution: By gnu-india.org team. We have stopped this project, because Philip Charles is doing it better. But still we continue the 3rd CD of this project. This CD is named "4-hackers" contains valuable documentation for GNU OS Hacking 9) GNU Geek: by Visu and Nagappan GNU Geek is GNU [G]eek [E]nabled [E]ntry [K]it Geek is a highly extensible framework for building console based data entry tools. is powered by GUILE and READLINE. -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 24 06:06:50 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:36:50 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [FSF India]GNU Project List In-Reply-To: <20010823132830.68157.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <15236.27847.849342.975093@ab.cdclinux.com> <20010823132830.68157.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15237.61178.913208.756943@ab.cdclinux.com> Regarding Netfilter, here is the list http://us4.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/netfilter Netfilter Hompage: http://netfilter.samba.org For Netfilter->Hurd port we will have on FSF-I mailing list You can really contribute a lot to this project. Don't worry about ur limitted knowledge in Hurd. You can quickly learn them. Best Regards ab raj kumar writes: > --- "M.P.Anand Babu" wrote: > > Hi ab, nice to see you again!!! > > I am certainly interested in this. > > > Next step is: > > Step 1* Get urself familiarized with Netfilter usage > > Read NAT-HowTo and Filtering-HowTo > > Step 2* OK, Now you are ready for hacking > > Read Netfilter-Hackers Guide. > > Understand the design/implementation of > > Netfilter. > > Step 3* Browse the source code of TCP/IP stack > > and NetFilter. > > Once upon a time I had hacked together a masq module > for H.323 for 2.0.36 kernel and I used to follow the > netfilter list for quite some time. But I am quite new > to hurd developement. I also do not know how much time > I can spend for this. But I will certainly try to > contribute some thing. > > Is there a mail list for this work? > > raj > raj@gnu.org.in -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 24 10:28:29 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:58:29 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] build instructions - gnuyahoo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15238.11341.168944.143578@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Parag I have enabled moderator rights for you. Again its all yours. Do anything you want. I need some more help from you. Basically product engineering. GNUYahoo is extensible thru Scheme language with gnuyahoo bindings. We need to make some standards before we make this extension language available to the community. I will explain them in a separate mail. Parag Mehta writes: > Hi AB, > can u send me the build instructions. i hv the required lib with > me. also letme know the following : libyahoo: --------- After compiling libyahoo, I manually copy the following files manually. libyahoo.a -> /usr/lib/libyahoo.a libyahoo.h -> /usr/include/libyahoo.h libyahoo-proto.h -> /usr/include/libyahoo-proto.h This is something the libyahoo team should address. They should have "make install" support libreadline4, libreadline4-dev, libguile6, libguile6-dev -------------------------------------------------------- This installation should be straight forward. I do apt-get install . May be you will do rpm -ivh finally gnuyahoo -------- As it complies with gnu source code packaging standards all you need to do is ./configure --prefix= make make install Advanced!@% ----------- When you run gnuyahoo for first time, it will create .gnuyahoo directory in ur home. like [~/.gnuyahoo] It will also touch ~/.gnuyahoo/gnuyahoo.scm. ~/.gnuyahoo/gnuyahoo.scm is your startup file. Its optional. But ur extremely powerful. Here is my ~/.gnuyahoo/gnuyahoo.scm file ================================================== ;; [login section starts] ;; assume current userid as yahoo-id ;; (gy-set-login-id! (array-ref (getpwuid (getuid)) 0)) ;; (gy-set-login-id! "abindian") (gy-set-login-id! 'gnu_india) ;; [login section ends] ;; [password section starts] ;; set password (gy-set-password! "press-enter") ;; [password section ends] ;; history feature (define log-message (lambda (from msg) (define history-file (open-file (string-append (gy-get-config-dir) "/history/" from) "a")) (define log (string-append "[" from "] " msg "\n")) (display log history-file) (close-output-port history-file))) (add-hook! gy-msg-receive-hook log-message) (add-hook! gy-msg-send-hook log-message) ;; alias support ;; (set! gy-aliases (assoc-set! gy-aliases 'nags '(nagappanal gnu_india))) ;; (set! gy-aliases (assoc-set! gy-aliases 'bala '(balugi gnu_india))) ================================================== I have programmed my gnuyahoo to have history feature. This was done by hooking the history procedure to gy-msg-receive-hook and gy-msg-send-hook. CC-Loadable Module ------------------ You can CC yahoo messages on the fly to ur friends thru this GNUYahoo loadable CC module. This module is really simple. You can use ?load to load and unload the module ====================================================== (if (defined? 'cc-buddy) () (define cc-buddy (lambda (to msg) (and (string=? to "balugi") (gy-send-message-no-hook "nagappanal" (string-append "[To:bala, CC:] " msg))) (and (string=? to "nagappanal") (gy-send-message-no-hook "balugi" (string-append "[To:nags, CC:] " msg))) (and (string=? to "gnu_india") (gy-send-message-no-hook "gnu_india" (string-append "[To:bala, CC:] " msg)))))) (define unhooked 0) (for-each (lambda (hook-proc) (and (equal? hook-proc cc-buddy) (begin (display "Unhooking ...") (remove-hook! gy-msg-send-hook cc-buddy) (display "done") (newline) (set! unhooked 1)))) (hook->list gy-msg-send-hook)) (and (= unhooked 0) (begin (display "Hooking ...") (add-hook! gy-msg-send-hook cc-buddy) (display "done") (newline))) ====================================================== package and libguile > i hv generated a tar ball named gnuyahoo-0.1.tar.gz and uploaded it > on sf.net not yet released. how abt we releasing this and then > onwards to 1.0 which when released moves to savannah ?? Yes thats sounds workable. We will proceed that way. > awaiting release details. also if u can grant me premission to > start a ml on sf.net by setting permission to me as a moderator . done > we can than hv this kind of stuff on that ml so can hv all > virews/tips/flames etc. thre. here i feel it only happens with u & > me. :) :)) We already have two mailing lists FSF-India and GNU-India to flood ;) Ok I dumped enough on this mail to confuse all of us. Scheme extensions might look little complex to beginners, but they are extremely simple. We have to write extensive documentation to cover them all. Using this extension language you can do anything you want. Best Regards ab -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 24 16:24:18 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:54:18 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Query: FS projects by Indian programmers In-Reply-To: <15237.61178.913208.756943@ab.cdclinux.com> Message-ID: Does anyone know of interesting Free Software or GNU/Linux projects done by Indian programmers which could be written about? I'm a freelance journalist... Frederick *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Frederick Noronha | Freelance Journalist | 784 Saligao 403511 Goa India Ph [0091] 832.409490 or 832.409783 Cell 9822 12.24.36 fred@bytesforall.org *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 25 12:43:51 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:13:51 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [Gnu-India](no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15239.40327.566215.720182@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Sandeep Thanks for the encouragement. Hope to see you soon on the list. You can also see http://gnu.org.in Best Regards ab Sandeep Gopal Nijsure writes: > Namaste!! > > Today while browsing debian.org I came across gnu-india.org.. good to see > something of this sort in India. Thanks to you all, and also my best > wishes. I look forward to joining the group when I learn a bit more about > unix/linux/herd.. > > chalo > Sandeep > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnu-India mailing list > Gnu-India@gnu-india.org > http://gnu-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-india > -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sat Aug 25 16:49:27 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Frederick Noronha) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:19:27 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] NEWS: GHAZALS ONLINE: CENTURIES-OLD POETRY GETS A LEG-UP FROM I.T. Message-ID: 'GHAZALS' ONLINE: CENTURIES-OLD POETRY GETS A LEG-UP FROM I.T. by Frederick Noronha fred@bytesforall.org MUMBAI: Modern-day powers of IT is teaming up with the age-old charm of the 'ghazal' to breathe new life and interest in these captivating poems set to music, that are widely popular in the South Asian language of Urdu. A new website just launched from the central Indian city of Nagpur called aaina-e-ghazal.com offers a trilingual dictionary of commonly used words in 'ghazals'. It is also accessible via the nagpurcity.net site. To enhance the popularity of this site and help the 'ghazals' get a wider reach, the Urdu text is written in Devnagri, the widely-used script of Hindi and other North Indian languages. Urdu is spoken by an estimated 104 million worldwide, and like Hindi have proceeded from the same Khariboli speech source from the areas sorrounding Delhi. Ghazals -- like other Indian hymns called 'Thumris' or 'Bhajans' are also -- addressed to God in terms of human love. Some trace their origins to 10th century Iran. The meanings of the words used in the Ghazals are given in English, Hindi and the regional language Marathi. Together with this, the site offers an illustrative Urdu couplet or two-lined poem (which is known as 'Sher'), according to Dr Tarique Sani. Dr Sani, a pediatrician by training who shifted over to the world of software and runs a firm called Sanisoft, is the founder of the site. Sani told IANS in an interview: "The book (of ghazals) was authored by my late parents and Dr Vinay Waikar and was in the fourth print edition when my father passed away. I designed this site as a tribute to the memory of my parents." This site is an online version of the same book but, he said, includes "a lots of enhancements, like dynamic cross-referenceing, site personalization, an ability to Romanize the Devnagri-script part and vice versa, etc." Incidentally, while undertaking this work, Dr Sani also build up a English-to-Hindi transliterator, that could give a further push to Indian language computing solutions. To render the 'ghazals' into Hindi, he was looking around for suitable software. Says he: "I was quoted Rs 250,000 for the software. I strongly felt such a basic-necessity software in a country like India should be free. So I just went ahead and designed my own and saved myself a quarter million rupees." Today, he freely distributes this software. This software Dr Sani wrote -- egged on by the peculiar needs of the site -- is a Roman-script to Devnagri transliterator. It allows you to type using English alphabets and they are converted to Devnagri equivalent. In a country like India where local-language computing is a pressing need, such products could act as a useful bridge to a solution. This product is available at the site for free download from http://www.sanisoft.com/rtod/index.php3 Other Indian sites -- like rediffmail.com, webduniya.com and mailjol.com -- also offer similar products. But unlike these products, Dr Sani's software follows the new and innovative trend of putting out 'free' software. So, he offers his own 'source-code' to anyone wanting to adapt or improve the product, encouraging a cycle of further improvements. "I am soliciting developers to modify the software for other Indian languages. Particularly Urdu, as this is the most challenging task," said Dr Sani. He says the framework is fairly modular and for someone who knows other language mapping it will be an easy job. "More needs to be done (to promote Indian-language computing)," says Dr Sani. He believes that the low-cost computing device, the Simputer being put together by scientists in Bangalore, could be an ideal device on this front. More websites are also required in Indian languages, with greater co-operation among them, rather than an urge to grab-my-share-of-the-pie, as he puts it. "India is a vast country the market is big enough for everyone but to exploit this market we need co-operation," he says. This software is available for free download from http://www.sanisoft.com/rtod/index.php3 . It is provided under LGPL, or the Lesser GNU Public License. A user is free to use the software even in his commercial products. But if any modifications are made to the original code, then the new code also has to be made public under LGPL. Sani says it took two months for him to create this software "from conceptualization to end-product". This is one in a small-but-growing trend of 'Open Source' and 'free' software products now beginning to come up in a country like India which is known to have vast software skills, but is only now beginning to see more collaborative working thanks to a recent spurt in growth of the Internet. FOOTNOTE: Contact Dr Sani at tarique@sanisoft.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Frederick Noronha | Freelance Journalist | 784 Saligao 403511 Goa India Ph [0091] 832.409490 or 832.409783 Cell 9822 12.24.36 fred@bytesforall.org *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 26 16:11:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:41:28 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] SUG: For students, Indian Open Source projects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15241.8112.567031.205307@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Frederick I have lot of projects in TODO list. If you find anybody looking for projects, please forward them to me, I will guide them and get it completed. -ab -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 26 20:03:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 01:33:52 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] SUG: For students, Indian Open Source projects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15241.22056.904938.94646@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Frederick One small correction, "Indian Free Software Projects" instead of "Indian Open Source Projects" Open Source community does not have any ethics attached. They don't really care about Freedom. Thanks ab -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Sun Aug 26 20:10:57 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 01:40:57 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Re: [Gnu-India]SUG: For students, Indian Open Source projects In-Reply-To: References: <15241.8112.567031.205307@ab.cdclinux.com> Message-ID: <15241.22481.554646.51828@ab.cdclinux.com> Hi Narasim Welcome to the GNU community of India. To get into the dev gang, you just need to feel you are a part of this movement, thats it. No one here can grant or revoke your rights. Its all yours. Next, Get involved in some projects, or start your own. We have plenty of ideas. If you have any, tell us. Tell us about your interests and skills to get started Best Regards ab -- Addicted to GNU Emacs Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) Narasimhamurthy Giridhar writes: > hi anand babu > I am interested in doing some work in Hurd. I am CS student doing my MS. > What do I need to do to get into the dev gang of Gnu-India. > Regards > Narasimhamurthy Giri, Clemson University Computer Science Dept. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Judge not lest ye be judged yourself. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, M.P.Anand Babu wrote: > > > Hi Frederick > > I have lot of projects in TODO list. > > If you find anybody looking for projects, please forward > > them to me, I will guide them and get it completed. > > > > -ab > > -- > > Addicted to GNU Emacs > > Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) > > _______________________________________________ > > Gnu-India mailing list > > Gnu-India@gnu-india.org > > http://gnu-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-india > > > > From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 27 13:16:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Ramakrishnan M) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:46:52 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Why you should not use sourceforge for your code hosting and development. Message-ID: <3B8A4844.FAFA235F@ti.com> Hello! By now, all of you in the Free Software Community would have come to know that the VA Research supported site http://sourceforge.net/ is going commercial. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/21253.html http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=6267&group_id=1 i.e The code of sourceforge is going to be closed. Here is the relevant text "By selling proprietary software together with Open Source software, VA is making it easier for its enterprise customers to purchase and deploy SourceForge software. VA Linux will be distributing SourceForge Enterprise Edition to its corporate customers under a combination of the Mozilla Public License (version 1.1) and a proprietary software license. " This is not unexpected of a company owned by VA Linux. VA's cheif Larry Augustin, is one among the advocates of the Open Source Movement (which by the way has nothing to do with Free Software Movement). They also add that they will be coming out with the GPLed version of sourceforge code(which is already there, and is used by http://savannah.gnu.org/). But needless to say, they must be feeling that they did a bad thing when they released the code under GPL, way back when they started sourceforge. What if, tomorrow, VA says, all the code hosted on sourceforge with licences other than GPL (or less "restrictive" than GPL) are going to be owned by them? or what if they say that the operational cost is high and shut down the site? These are very much possible. They all jumped into this business, not to promote it or not to be part of the community, but for the simple reason that there is money there. And now, Eric Raymond who, some people regard as Richard Stallman of Open Source Movement, has posted the following mail asking people to calm down... http://lwn.net/daily/esr-on-va.php3 That's stupid, and is unexpected from a person like ESR. Of course I respect him as a hacker. But I think I know why he came out with this letter: He holds huge stake in VA. It's just that simple. I am not a businessman and I don't (and can't think like a businessman and so) I don't understand most of the stuff that he has written in that letter. I am concerned only about one thing. Will the end users of the software be benifited? In this case, it is the developers, who are going to use the sourceforge software. It's clear that given the motives of VA, we should expect more bad news from them. So the conclusion IMNSHO(In My Not So Humble Opinion): Boycott sourceforge, Use savannah instead! Protect your rights and freedom. Let the flamefest begin! Best Regards -- Ramakrishnan M World Wide Web: http://www.symonds.net/~rkrishnan/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Mon Aug 27 18:19:44 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (M.P.Anand Babu) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:49:44 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] forwarded message from Narasimhamurthy Giridhar Message-ID: <15242.36672.399599.725643@ab.cdclinux.com> Return-path: Envelope-to: ab@localhost Delivery-date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:19:53 +0530 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] ident=ab) by ab.cdclinux.com with esmtp (Exim 3.31 #1 (Debian)) id 15bQWG-0004R6-00 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:19:52 +0530 Delivered-To: gnu-india.org-ab@gnu-india.org Received: from 207.189.136.128 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.3.3) for ab@localhost (single-drop); Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:19:52 +0530 (IST) Received: (qmail 15399 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2001 16:58:40 -0000 Received: from citron.cs.clemson.edu (HELO cs.clemson.edu) (130.127.48.6) by vrindavix.thisaddress.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 2001 16:58:40 -0000 Received: from comet9.cs.clemson.edu (comet9 [130.127.48.205]) by cs.clemson.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24964 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:56:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (giridhar@localhost) by comet9.cs.clemson.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12145 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:56:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: comet9.cs.clemson.edu: giridhar owned process doing -bs In-Reply-To: <15241.22481.554646.51828@ab.cdclinux.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Narasimhamurthy Giridhar To: "M.P.Anand Babu" Subject: Re: [Gnu-India]SUG: For students, Indian Open Source projects Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Hi ab Thanx for the reply. My interests are Operating Systems. I am right now studying Linux. My skills are as follows: Languages: C, C++ experiance in Compiler Construction, UNIX and Windows Socket Programming,UNIX System Programming, Windows MFC. Currently working on building a device driver for 3Dlabs Permedia2 graphics board on Linux for Pentium based machines. The compiler construction was on Solaris. So was most of the socket programming that i have done. Other than this, I am also interested in internetworking, but my knowledge in protocols is very less. This is about my skills as of now. Do you think i can help?? Regards Narasimhamurthy Giri, Clemson University Computer Science Dept. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Judge not lest ye be judged yourself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, M.P.Anand Babu wrote: > Hi Narasim > Welcome to the GNU community of India. > > To get into the dev gang, you just need to feel > you are a part of this movement, thats it. No one > here can grant or revoke your rights. Its all yours. > > Next, Get involved in some projects, or start your own. > We have plenty of ideas. If you have any, tell us. > > Tell us about your interests and skills to get started > > Best Regards > ab > -- > Addicted to GNU Emacs > Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) > > Narasimhamurthy Giridhar writes: > > hi anand babu > > I am interested in doing some work in Hurd. I am CS student doing my MS. > > What do I need to do to get into the dev gang of Gnu-India. > > Regards > > Narasimhamurthy Giri, Clemson University Computer Science Dept. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Judge not lest ye be judged yourself. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, M.P.Anand Babu wrote: > > > > > Hi Frederick > > > I have lot of projects in TODO list. > > > If you find anybody looking for projects, please forward > > > them to me, I will guide them and get it completed. > > > > > > -ab > > > -- > > > Addicted to GNU Emacs > > > Inspired by GNU (www.gnu.org) > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Gnu-India mailing list > > > Gnu-India@gnu-india.org > > > http://gnu-india.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-india > > > > > > > > From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 28 19:43:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (harshu) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 01:13:00 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Glibc Message-ID: <20010829011300.A762@hd2.vsnl.net.in> hi Can somebody give an explantion in newbies terms as to what exactly this article means. I am refering the end where is says not so nice things. http://news.linuxprogramming.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-08-16-002-06-LT regards harsha -- ... I don't know which is more striking - the clumsy inadequacy of words, or their world-shaking power. So long as men remain emotional creatures, they will continue to be taken, like rabbits, by the ears. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Tue Aug 28 15:09:17 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Rajkumar S.) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:39:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] From the gnu wins again dept Message-ID: Hi all, IBM has taken GNU/Linux to the NewYork Stock Exchange. Read more about it at http://www.investors.com/editorial/TechP.asp raj From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 29 09:15:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Vivekananda Prabhu) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) Message-ID: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I have been following the "Free" vs. "Open Source" vs. "Closed Source" debate which has been raging for sometime now. The real issues here is *ethics*. The so-called Open Source guys are here to make *money* period. Though open source definition looks deceptively similar to Free Software definition including half-hearted endorsement of GPL, the real issues are more deeper & subtle (for the casual reader) 1) World Domination -- Most of the open source guys are of the type "My view is world view" including Linus Torvalds & the stupid moron ( pardon me for the strong words used but I couldn't find any political correct word to describe this guy) who has added words of poisonous vicious attack on RMS on GLIBC README!!!. They want Linux to succeed not "Freedom" How does this make them different from Bill Gate's vision of "Windows everywhere"? This is against the "Freedom of choice & collaboration" which must be available to the users & developers. Do we want to have "Linux everywhere" tommorrow & pay $s to Red Hat & VA Linux instead of to M$? I love Free software not because it will dominate the world tommorrow but it gives me the choice & power to do whatever I want to do with it today 2) Software Incubation /Marketing -- These guys give out open source not because they love freedom but as they don't have any other choice. Software incubation from alpha stage to beta & into production (as any developer knows) is a long drawn & costly process. Initial marketing when you don't have a customer requires a fat bank balance. So they do open source. Open Source automatically gives them developers for free (as in free beer), it also gives them free publicity. As more & more users download & use the software this gives them market penetration (market percentage) which they want. Remember Linus Torvalds initially released Linux as a non-free software & then used GPL. He used GPL not because he loved Freedom or had any sacred feeling for GPL (which he doesnot).But he wanted Linux to succeed. If he hadn't used GPL Linux still would have the same mindshare as FreeBSD or Minix. 3)Love for Mozilla/BSD style licences - These people love these licences not because they want to give developers more choice about licences, but these licences give them the option to turn closed source & steal other developers efforts if they have to. E.g. As X Consortium tried to turn last X release into closed source (unsuccessfully) Some of them go to the length of saying developers Read companies) should have the freedom to choose whichever licences they wish to (Notably Tim O'Reilly & seconded by Eric S. Raymond).Extending this argument even M$ Closed source/Shared Source licences are also OK for them. Isn't it? 4) B grade software - The real danger of Open Source is that it will tie those users who love freedom to B grade software, as all Professional & Enterprise Editions will be closed source. You use a open source software to do some basic thing. As your business develops you want to do more advanced things. You suddenly realise you *lose your freedom*, get a closed source software & pay through your nose. This strategy is the same as used by "Freeware" people. In this respect atleast M$ is OK. When you go with M$ you know you have pay for every feature you want to use & you lose freedom. Atleast they don't cheat the people in the name of "Open Source" (not yet). As an e.g. Can you develop JSPs/EJBs using open source Netbeans/Forte? The answer is *no*, leaving aside *early access* releases which are baits to get free developers, testers & *will* be expired once the Closed Source version becomes ready to market. That is why they love non-copyleft BSD/Mozilla licences which prevent them from doing this.They don't love (hate in their hearts) GPL as this prevents them from doing this (if they include other peoples contributions which they invariably have to). Agreed they don't say GPL is "Cancerous" & "Unamerican" the way M$ does though they would love to but scared that they might lose the free (gratis) developers/testers. But they do no lesser harm by saying OK, you can use GPL but you are equally safe using BSD, Mozilla etc.(whill will allow me to steal your efforts).Just look at the list of licences available at Open Source web site (http://www.opensource.org).You'll be surprised to find GPL at the very bottom (added half-heartedly with a sarcastic explanation). I am not surprised tommorrow if they welcome M$ with it's Shared Source licence into thier club (if M$ is ready to pump $s into thier companies).M$ may even licence some part of it's OS kernel using Mozilla/BSD style licence if it can reduce it's maintenance costs while reserving the right to add proprietory extensions Given this background we are seeing more & more "Open Source" guys turning "Closed Source" on the pretext of "Sacrifice". Please read Eric Raymonds explanation for VA going closed source ( It is alright to sacrifice principles for money). With friends like "Open Source" guys do we need enemies? An enemy who acts like a friend is more dangerous than a open foe (M$ & other closed source companies). The real definition of Open Source is "Free beer (for me) not free speech (for you)" (with due apologies to RMS) Sorry for the long winded story. But I felt that it is time somebody exposed these guys for what they are. Everyone here was saying hey we are rivals not enemies, Open Source & FSF are friends & go hand in hand etc. Before flaming me or this mailing list for my heresy of calling GNU/Linux as Linux, please understand I am talking about/exposing the thinking of Open Sourcers. (They certainly donot call Gnu/Linux as Gnu/Linux). In case anybody is still offended my apologies to them. Regards, Vivek __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 29 13:02:58 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Kalyan Varma) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:32:58 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Vivekananda Prabhu wrote: > Some of them go to the length of saying developers > Read companies) should have the freedom to choose > whichever licences they wish to (Notably Tim O'Reilly > & seconded by Eric S. Raymond).Extending this argument > even M$ Closed source/Shared Source licences are also > OK for them. Isn't it? You are contradicting yourself. Where the hell is my freedom if I cant choose the license I want. I agree GPL is a good thing, but you cant go around forcing people to use GPL. Its their choice. If they dont mind others using their code , then what the hell is your problem ? lets say I write a appilication. I really dont give a damn what license it is under. All I care is that my appilication works.When I use Linux I dont use it coz it is under GPL. I use it coz its the technology that I like. - kalyan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 05:51:51 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Pappu) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:21:51 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com>; from vivekbp@yahoo.com on Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:15:06AM -0700 References: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010830112151.A22766@mailandnews.com> On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:15:06AM -0700, Vivekananda Prabhu wrote: > > 4) B grade software - The real danger of Open Source > is that it will tie those users who love freedom to B > grade software, as all Professional & Enterprise > Editions will be closed source. > > You use a open source software to do some basic thing. > As your business develops you want to do more advanced > things. You suddenly realise you *lose your freedom*, > get a closed source software & pay through your nose. Even if we are willing to pay, we don't get the basic freedoms that we deserve. We will be forced to pay for "LESSER software" and by the time we realize that, we are trapped. bye, pappu. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Wed Aug 29 17:42:28 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raju Mathur) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:12:28 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15245.10628.282676.90341@mail.linux-delhi.org> Hi Prabhu, >>>>> "VA" == Vivekananda Prabhu writes: VA> Hi, I have been following the "Free" vs. "Open Source" vs. VA> "Closed Source" debate which has been raging for sometime now. VA> The real issues here is *ethics*. VA> The so-called Open Source guys are here to make *money* VA> period. Though open source definition looks deceptively VA> similar to Free Software definition including half-hearted VA> endorsement of GPL, the real issues are more deeper & subtle VA> (for the casual reader) I'm in it to make money. Does that make me an outcast from the Free Software community? VA> 1) World Domination -- Most of the open source guys are of the VA> type "My view is world view" including Linus Torvalds & the VA> stupid moron ( pardon me for the strong words used but I VA> couldn't find any political correct word to describe this guy) VA> who has added words of poisonous vicious attack on RMS on VA> GLIBC README!!!. Fanaticism for any reason is a lost cause. Any reason: whether for or against GPL, for or against MS, for or against ESR or RMS or LT. VA> They want Linux to succeed not "Freedom" My definition of freedom includes the right to let other people release their software under any license they please. I'll still try to convince them to go GPL, I'd be upset if they chose another license, but I wouldn't abuse them. True freedom includes the freedom to err, and no one has the One True Definition of right and wrong. VA> [snip] Regards, -- Raju -- Raju Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 08:14:15 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Vivekananda Prabhu) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 01:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Freedom to Gaurd my back & to advise others to Gaurd thiers Message-ID: <20010830081415.49178.qmail@web20005.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, This is further to my posting on "OS is as dangerous as MS" & subsequent postings. I am not pressing for a world-wide "Prevention of Non-GPL licences" law, nor am I asking for a law to prevent people from leaving their doors open when they go out or to prevent people to commit suicide My intention is just to warn others who may not understand the full implications of their decisions to use MPL/BSD & variants If any licence is OK & the basic freedom, why do "Open Source" people cry fowl when MS uses this "Freedom" to publish Shared Source/Closed Source software? Aren't they breaching MS "Freedom" to do so? I am not against people making money.But what these "Open Source" guys say is "It is alright if VA, ArsDigita, Caldera make money by writing closed source. But it is wrong if MS does so". If this is not plain hipocrisy what else is? BSD was no lesser technolgically than Linux in it's time. It gave us TCP/IP, Kerberos & what not. But why did it remain an under dog to it's offsprings Solaris, SCO etc.? Because of it's weak licence Sun, SCO etc. could easily steal any new technology from it without contributing their innovations back to it. So BSD always lagged behind these proprietary companies. It also lead these companies to develop incompatible proprietory features which ultimately fragmented Unix market & gave a lee-way for MS to capture the Server market. If Linux had been released under BSD licence it would have met the same fate as BSD for all the technical superiority of Linux for the very same reasons. I am not a "GPL zealot" or "GPL fundamentalist". I also don't hang RMS photo in my study room. Give me any licence that gives me same protection as GPL does (legally) & I have no qualms in using it. It could always be argued that GPL is un-enforcable in India. Then there is also nothing to prevent people from modifying their copy of MS MFC develop software & sell it. Just because 10 robberies happen in the city daily despite all precautions & secuity, I am not going to leave my front door open when I go out. If making money is the only issue the average computer user won't give a damn shit whether MS, VA or Red Hat makes it. If cost is the only issue he/she will not use Linux when he/she can get pirated copy of MS software for same price (which he percieves to be more user-friendly whether someone agrees or not). If technology is the only issue it doesn't matter to 80% of computer users who use MS Word to type letters & MS Excel to manage finances.If security is the only issue Apache was broken into recently (go read the article in their web site). What matters to me is the Freedom to modify the software in anyway I want without limiting the choice of other applications available to me (I or anybody else how ever brilliant cannot write every concievable software even if they write all thier life time). I want source code to all these apps so that I can customize them.For that I want my favourite Free software to have a significant market share. I don't just want this freedom now, I want it for all posterity. I don't want it to fragment or be an under dog to proprietory software & lose it's market share. That is why I recommend GPL After reading my posting if someone decides to use MPL/BSD or MS shared source licence or Closed Source licence I don't give a damn. I also don't give a damn if someone decides to leave thier front door open or decide to commit suicide But please don't question my Freedom of speech to warn others to gaurd thier back by branding me as a GPL zealot Regards, Vivek __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 14:47:45 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raj Singh) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:17:45 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [NEWS] Governments Pushing Open-Source SW Message-ID: For more details check news.com site. -- Raj ============================================================== Governments push open-source software By Paul Festa, Staff Writer, CNET News.com August 29, 2001, 4:00 a.m. PT Governments around the world have found a new rallying cry -- "Software libre!" -- and Microsoft is working overtime to quell it. A recent global wave of legislation is compelling government agencies, and in some cases government-owned companies, to use open-source or free software unless proprietary software is the only feasible option. ============================================================= From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 11:17:52 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Vivekananda Prabhu) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:17:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] GNU/Linux vs Linux Message-ID: <20010830111752.30953.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, To the un-initiated both GNU/Linux & Linux look one & the same. If you look at the source code or binary executables it is the same. But if you look philosophically at what these stand for they are East & West. GNU/Linux (Free Software) - Freedom first & other benefits last Linux (Open Source) - TCSA ( Technology, Cost, Security & Availability of source code) First & Freedom last But both have a common enemy MS. Which will beat MS Freedom or TCSA? TCSA can never beat MS for the following reasons 1) Technology & Security - MS can easily beat "Linux" easily by ripping off technology from FeeBSD, robustness from OpenBSD , Security from NetBSD & Aqua from Apple & calling the new OS "GATES". This is not hypothetical as MS has already stolen TCP/IP & Kerberos from FreeBSD to become an effective competitor to Unix/Linux (on the server side) 2) Cost - MS can make Windows free (gratis/cost)as it did with IE to kill Netscape, if it starts feeling the heat. It can keep Windows free (cost) for sometime to kill Linux & then start charging sky high prices to compensate the losses. Alternatively it can remove it's new licensing scheme thereby allowing piracy to thrive & kill Linux. That is how MS killed Lotus 1-2-3 , Word Perfect, Borland etc. 3) Availability of source code - People buy Windows to run MS Office, they buy Windows for it's nice GUI & not it's (un)stable kernel. In fact Kernel code is a liability for MS not an asset ( considering development, maintenance & testing costs) I am not surprised if MS makes it's Kernel open source (a la Apple Darwin). The signs are already there ( for those who can see) MS Craig Mundie attends Open Source ( not Free Software) conference. In fact he is invited there to attend FSF conference which he refuses to. Craig Mundie sings paens for BSD licences while critisizing GPL (subtly). Contrary to what most people think MS is not stupid. They are testing waters. If developers don't buy their "Shared Source" vision they will eventually go with Open Source (not Free Software) if that could cut their development, maintenance & testing costs. When that happens we will see Bill G. shaking hands with Open source hot-shots (Co-World domination??). Bill G. & ESR would be praising TCSA quality of Open Source together. After some months we hear that MS is making heavy-duty investments in VA, Read Hat etc. After all Bill G. is a businessman. It doesn't matter to him from where the money comes from Windows or Linux as long as he gets to pocket it. Infact he already *has* investments in Apple, Corel etc. (ex-MS hate club) So MS can beat "Linux" easily in TCSA area, but it cannot beat GNU/Linux in "Freedom". If there is something MS will never give us or (wish to) let us have is "Freedom" I hope this posting opens the eyes of "Linux" people (who dream of beating MS using TCSA aspects of "Linux") to the importance of "Freedom" (read GNU/Linux) But then I can wake only those who are *really* sleeping not those who *pretend* to sleep Regards, Vivek __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 13:03:15 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:33:15 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] [Fwd: he who controls the bootloader] Message-ID: <20010830183315.A1537@GNUhead> -------- Oorspronkelijk bericht -------- Onderwerp: he who controls the bootloader Van: Mark-Jan Bastian Aan: discussion@hippiesfromhell.org An interesting article about an issue that was not widely examined in the Microsoft antitrust trial: http://www.byte.com/documents/s=1115/byt20010824s0001/0827_hacker.html It's about the way Microsoft licenses it's software to OEM's like Dell and Gateway, that prevents non-microsoft OS's to be installed as a dual-boot option on newly shipped PC's. These secret MS-to-OEM licenses (not the EULA license!) have a provision that the pre-installed Microsoft-OS must be loaded by a Microsoft bootloader only. And, the license agreement of the bootloader, states that that bootloader may only be used for booting Microsoft operating systems. This prevents that any OEM can ship a dual-boot system with Windows and another OS. This is needed by alternative OS manufacturers (be it linux, FreeBSD or BeOS) to give any reasonable way to market a different OS, and allow it to gain marketshare. Most joe-sixpack users of PC's don't know that there exists something besides windows. They will only use what is preinstalled, and are not going to do extra steps to buy, download and install alternative OS's. This means that most people also won't have the chance to test alternative operating systems. Installing afterwards will also give more problems than a finetuned linux install that an OEM could deliver, where everything would work first time you turn it on. So, if a OEM like Dell or Gateway wants to give people an option to boot into either Linux or Windows, that is not possible, Microsoft will threaten them by either increasing licensing fees, withdrawing support, or whatever argument they can make to convice them to stick to a Microsoft OS only. Be, Inc, a company that made the BeOS, found this out some time ago, when giving OEM's an option to include a preinstalled BeOS installation for free, besides windows (dual boot). There was a lot of enthusiasm at the OEM's, but once the Microsoft lawyers visted the OEM, and explained their licensing terms again, they all had to refuse the offer of Be, Inc. The interesting thing is that the U.S. antitrust trial was mainly about the browser integration issue, while this bootloader control issue, is much more clear case of anticompetitive behaviour. Mark-Jan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 15:03:06 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Raghavendra Bhat) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:33:06 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] GNU/Linux vs Linux In-Reply-To: <20010830111752.30953.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010830111752.30953.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010830203306.A907@GNUhead> [Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 04:17:52AM -0700] Vivekananda Prabhu : > MS Craig Mundie attends Open Source ( not Free Software) > conference. In fact he is invited there to attend FSF > conference which he refuses to. Craig Mundie sings paeans > for BSD licenses while criticizing GPL (subtly). He is actually singing 'elegies' for the benefit of our Open Source guys who think that the BSD license is great ! He is doing the bidding of his master to further the goal of 'embracing & extending' all of the software under the Open Source guys' hats. There will be no money to be made by these Open Source guys/developers and by the time they realize this it will be too late and they may have to increase the contrast of their eyes :( M$ would have made 'good, clean' money by 'stealing' the code of our OSS guys; M$ brand of innovation. Craig Mundie cannot answer questions of the Free Software Conference attendees (if he were to attend) because he will start blabbering when the issue of *Software Freedom* is raised. He very well knows that only the GPL can protect an ordinary developer. He fears the GPL and its *fundamentalist brigade* for giving us (the developer and the end-user) *Software Freedom*. The FreeBSD license is a 'black hole' trap because it neither protects the Developer nor makes life easier for the End User. -- GPG: 1024D/F1624A6E ragOO, VU2RGU Helping to keep the Air-Waves FREE Amateur Radio Helping to keep your Software FREE the GNU Project Helping to keep the W W W FREE Debian GNU/${kernel} From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 06:27:56 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 30 Aug 2001 11:57:56 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86snearrir.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Kalyan Varma writes: > On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Vivekananda Prabhu wrote: > > > Some of them go to the length of saying developers > > Read companies) should have the freedom to choose > > whichever licences they wish to (Notably Tim O'Reilly > > & seconded by Eric S. Raymond).Extending this argument > > even M$ Closed source/Shared Source licences are also > > OK for them. Isn't it? > > You are contradicting yourself. Where the hell is my freedom if I cant > choose the license I want. That is a very naive (and dangerously misleading) interpretation of the word "freedom" propagated by the Open Source camp. In effect, you are accepting a definition of "freedom" formulated by people who themselves don't care about freedom :) Now *there's* your contradiction! Any freedom, the exercising of which takes away the freedom of others is no freedom at all. When a developer chooses to publish his (original) software under a non-copyleft license, he consciously accepts that someone down the line is sooner or later going to lose one or more of the four basic freedoms of Free Software. On the other hand, for an end user with no interest in further development and publishing of the software in question, a non-copyleft but GPL-compatible Free Software license is perfectly fine. > I agree GPL is a good thing, but you cant > go around forcing people to use GPL. Its their choice. The Free Software movement can only advocate the use of particular licenses; it cannot *force* anybody; it does not have the *power* to force. Unless, of course, you are basing your work on a previously GPL'd work in which case you are bound by the "laws of freedom." The word "force" does not apply here. You are under moral and legal obligations to pass on the same freedoms that you received. > mind others using their code , then what the hell is your problem ? > lets say I write a appilication. I really dont give a damn what license > it is under. All I care is that my appilication works.When I use Linux > I dont use it coz it is under GPL. I use it coz its the technology that I > like. I sincerely hope that this mailing list plays some part, however small, in changing this view of yours. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 16:53:30 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Kalyan Varma) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:23:30 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: <86snearrir.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: On 30 Aug 2001, Khuzaima A. Lakdawala wrote: > That is a very naive (and dangerously misleading) interpretation of > the word "freedom" propagated by the Open Source camp. In effect, you > are accepting a definition of "freedom" formulated by people who > themselves don't care about freedom :) Now *there's* your > contradiction! > > Any freedom, the exercising of which takes away the freedom of others is > no freedom at all. According to the Oxford Dictonary Freedom = Condition of being free and unrestricted Freedom = Having personal rights and social and political liberty When I write code ( original from scratch ) I own the code. If my main aim is to make money, I sell it as a proprietary software like any of the traditional company. If I want to make money and still want people to see the code, I release it under the Open Source License. If I want other to take and , modify it, and redistribute it then I would release it under GPL. The choice is mine. So I have my personal rights on the code and am unrestricted by any other licenses. So I have freedom here. Now you are saying I *must* release it under GPL to give freedom to others. So dont I loose my freedom to choose now ??? If I personally at some point write code I will release it under GPL. I believe it it. However just coz someone does not release code under GPL, you cant point at him and say he is taking away everyones freedom. - -kalyan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 31 12:15:31 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Vivekananda Prabhu) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 05:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [FSF India] Making money from GPLed (Free) Software Message-ID: <20010831121531.61888.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, One of the common refrains I hear about GPL from Open Source/Closed Source guys is you cannot make money by writing GPLed software. You need a proprietory licence or Open Source MPL/BSD to make money. Ofcourse you can make money writing GPLed software. But the business model is different than making money using MPL/BSD or proprietory licenses. Proprietory/ Open Source models depend on "Branding" to get VC funding & run the business profitably (1). To have an effective branding you need USPs (Unique Selling Propositions). This ultimately leads to some really useful modules being Closed source ( irrespective of the licence claiming to be Open Source) In GPL model you make money by offering Services (not selling software alone). You could sell "Free" software but your USP will be the quality of service (QOS) you offer in installing/setting up software, software customization, training, maintenance & technical support. The only difference will be some high-flying VC will not be funding you. You really need to sweat it out. Anyway it is not bad as you won't have a black-suited guy who doesn't know ABCD of software controlling your every action.There is no danger that he (VC) will pull-out his investments when things are not green & your Co. joins the long list of Dot.gone companies You can win & keep clients only by offering first-class services. Any second-class, third-class service will not do (otherwise he will go to others GPL grants him the freedom to do so).Word of mouth is very important. Nobody can lock-in customers by offering third-class proprietory solutions (you actually are *stealing* customers freedom in doing so by using BSD/MPL) & denying him & others from improving the software beyond what you have given ( You might have given him A grade product but he wants A+ one & doesn't like to pay you. May be he doesn't like your QOS or price) Considering the Freedom GPL gives to end-users I am beginning to wonder why doesn't a Consumer Forum (not FSF/RMS) ask for a ban on Non-GPL software to safe guard consumer interests Increasingly we are seeing BSD/MPL being used as sugar-coated "poison candy" by companies to trap & lock-in users. I suggest that a law be passed that these software carry a warning "B grade. Expect Non-Free 'A' grade software soon which is injurious to your freedom " the way cigarette packs carry the message "Smoking cigarettes is injurious to health". After reading this message if someone decides to use such S/W ar smoke cigarettes it is thier funeral (freedom), but let us guard their "Freedom for Information" (Just joking don't brand me as a person conspiring to steal others freedom which I am not) Well developing GPLed software you can still make money. But you cannot make money sacrificing ethics (stealing customer freedom) as GPL will not allow you to do it the way MPL/BSD do. You really do need to sweat it out. Do you have it in you? GPLed software will give money to meet everyones needs but not everyones greeds. Come on, we leave in a country where people buy cars, houses & make a posh living selling Idlis & Dosas which donot carry any IP or licence in roadside shops. There are companies that package it in vaccuum packs & make money. It is the quality of service that brings in (more) money. Software is also a commodity to be sold in bulk in the Bazaar (Both RMS & ESR agree to this point). The only difference is that these shops or packaging companies do not intend to make proprietory extensions to Idli & patent/copy right it. That is why we don't need GPL here.But in S/W there are M$ & others waiting to steal our freedom & choices, so we need GPL. Infact there is lot of opportunity for making money using GPLed software in India. Around 90% people don't own PCs yet (aren't addicted to Windows yet).When our stupid government removes import duties on H/W making the PCs cheaper a whole lot of people will be buying it. This is an opportunity for us to grow. Around 60%-70% of our population donot know English. They want software in local languages.They cannot afford XP (because of WPA & price), Win XX doesn't give this choice to them. We can give them that choice using Indigo A whole lot of people do not know installing/setting up software. There is money to be made here. A whole lot of home users, companies need Financial software (GnuCash) which is customized to their taste & requirements. Any software including supposedly user friendly M$ Office needs training. There is money *here*. You only need to keep you eyes & ears open If you go to Banta Singh (sorry for racial stereo stypes you can even read it as Banta Prabhu if you are offended) from Jhumri Talaiyya & tell him about "linux" technology & security, IBM clustering, loadable Kernel modules etc. He will say "Duh!". He is more than happy using Windowz. You give him an assembled PC pre-loaded with GNU/Linux, any software customized or otherwise in his own language, any training he needs & maintenance he needs he will buy it. But even OSS guys can do it or even pirated software guys selling Windowz. So what is Free Software USP? We say to Banta "Look Boss (customer is our king). I am not locking-in or trapping you in anyway. I am giving you *complete* source (code). If tommorrow I close shop or you don't like my source you can go to any XYZ to do anything you want with the software". He will be amazed & ask you "How do you plan to make money in the future?". You smile & say "By giving you a better quality of service & offering you reasonable prices". He will then trust you & tell these OSS & pirated software guys to scoot. They can't tell him the same thing without telling lies(fully or partially).Even if they lie they cannot fool all the people all the time. So hackers start writing code in GPL & close your ears for all MPL/BSD marketing & FUD Regards, Vivek __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 31 13:03:34 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Kalyan Varma) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:33:34 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] Making money from GPLed (Free) Software In-Reply-To: <20010831121531.61888.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Vivekananda Prabhu wrote: > Ofcourse you can make money writing GPLed software. > But the business model is different than making money > using MPL/BSD or proprietory licenses. > In GPL model you make money by offering Services (not > selling software alone). You could sell "Free" > software but your USP will be the quality of service > (QOS) you offer in installing/setting up software, > software customization, training, maintenance & > technical support. I dont really see anything wrong selling GPL based software. I mean Red Hat for example, gives you the OS free, However the box pack with the printed manuals and stuff is expensive. Red Hat does make money on those Box Packs still being GPLed. RMS himself used to sell early versions of emacs, but had also make a copy of it avilable on the web for free. He did make living by selloing emacs on those old tapes. > Considering the Freedom GPL gives to end-users I am > beginning to wonder why doesn't a Consumer Forum (not > FSF/RMS) ask for a ban on Non-GPL software to safe > guard consumer interests You do have to realise that not all Computer companies can survive by just offering servies. Lets say MS releases windows under GPL, knowing MS it would make windowz *not so user friendly*. Only that way people will come back to these companies for services. IF the software works fine, why would anyone need service..... So the quality of the software will suffer in this case. So if you ban all non-GPL software... many companies will fall. So instead of banning, we spread awareness , telling people, the kind of freedom the people will enjoy using GPL sofware. - -kalyan From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 31 13:27:14 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:57:14 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Making money from GPLed (Free) Software In-Reply-To: <20010831121531.61888.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com>; from vivekbp@yahoo.com on Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 05:15:31AM -0700 References: <20010831121531.61888.qmail@web20006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010831185714.C587@orion> Hi vivek, I feel that in all of your writings you confuses between GNU GPL, BSD, Free Software, Open Source etc. GNU GPL != Free Software, BSD is not anti Free Software. Open Source I dont think is about anti GNU GPL even if its not primarily about Fredom and Free Software. > One of the common refrains I hear about GPL from Open > Source/Closed Source guys is you cannot make money by > writing GPLed software. You need a proprietory licence > or Open Source MPL/BSD to make money. From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 31 13:09:00 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Arun) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:39:00 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: ; from kalyan@exocore.com on Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:23:30PM +0530 References: <86snearrir.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Message-ID: <20010831183900.B587@orion> > According to the Oxford Dictonary > > Freedom = Condition of being free and unrestricted > Freedom = Having personal rights and social and political liberty Sure, and your 'personal rights' ends where it can hurt another persons Freedom. (Hope you wont ask for Freedom to shoot your friend. ;) ) > When I write code ( original from scratch ) I own the code. > If my main aim is to make money, I sell it as a proprietary software like > any of the traditional company. If I want to make money and still want > people to see the code, I release it under the Open Source License. > If I want other to take and , modify it, and redistribute it then I would > release it under GPL. The choice is mine. So I have my personal rights on > the code and am unrestricted by any other licenses. So I have freedom > here. Now you are saying I *must* release it under GPL to give freedom to > others. I will say you *must* release it as Free Software (FreeSoftware != GPL) since I think that is the right way to go. But I am not going to point a gun at you and ask to do the same. > So dont I loose my freedom to choose now ??? Shouldnt you, if it hurt some others Freedom ? From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Thu Aug 30 16:20:20 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Khuzaima A. Lakdawala) Date: 30 Aug 2001 21:50:20 +0530 Subject: [FSF India] Open $ource is as dangerous as M$ (if not more) In-Reply-To: <15245.10628.282676.90341@mail.linux-delhi.org> References: <20010829091506.94097.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com> <15245.10628.282676.90341@mail.linux-delhi.org> Message-ID: <86ae0hh64b.fsf@home.this-is-not-a-domain.in> Raju Mathur writes: > >>>>> "VA" == Vivekananda Prabhu writes: > > VA> The real issues here is *ethics*. > > VA> The so-called Open Source guys are here to make *money* > VA> period. Though open source definition looks deceptively > VA> similar to Free Software definition including half-hearted > VA> endorsement of GPL, the real issues are more deeper & subtle > VA> (for the casual reader) > > I'm in it to make money. Does that make me an outcast from the Free > Software community? It has been stressed repeatedly by many in the Free Software community that "Free Software is not anti-business." Nobody is implying that you can't be "in it to make money." However, you cannot compromise on the basic principles of freedom, justify these compromises on the basis of financial considerations, and still claim to be part of the community. This is *precisely* what VA Linux just did, ESR's feeble "clarifications" notwithstanding. When money becomes the sole concern and making money becomes the *only* goal, then no movement can succeed. What the Free Software Movement needs from the business community are ethical and morally upright business persons who can come up with business models which can sustain themselves without compromising on the basic principles of freedom. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala From fsf-india@gnu.org.in Fri Aug 31 13:48:08 2001 From: fsf-india@gnu.org.in (Satyakam Goswami) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:18:08 +0530 (IST) Subject: [FSF India] [Commercial] Sysdmins and Tech Support Guys needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1053.192.168.0.2.999265688.squirrel@mail.archeanit.com> hi, Archean is looking out for *nix Sys Admins/Network Admins ,Anyone out there who want to work on *nix ;-) Knowledge in any one or more of below *nix Clusters. Mail Servers. Web Servers. Maintaining heterogeneous networks. Anyone interested can mail to career@archeanit.com or call at the given no's anytime of the day. P.S : Please dont post ur resumes/enquiries to the list. Kind regards S.Goswami --------------------------------------------- Archean Infotech Victory Vihar,Himayatnagar Hyderabad 500029,www.archeanit.com Ph:3228666,6570704,3228674 Mobile:9849016667 ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. 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