<div dir="ltr">In the light of discussions in FSF Friends, I am forwarding this thread , happing in Kerala mailing lists<div><br></div><div>Anivar<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><span style="font-size: large; font-weight: bold;">Forwarded conversation</span><br>
Subject: <b class="gmail_sendername">[smc-discuss] Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated</b><br>------------------------<br><br><span class="undefined"><font color="#888">From: <b class="undefined">JOBY JOHN</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jobyatps@gmail.com">jobyatps@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: 2008/9/23<br>To: <a href="mailto:ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com">ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:Keralites@yahoogroups.com">Keralites@yahoogroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:ossworkgroup@googlegroups.com">ossworkgroup@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:smc-discuss@googlegroups.com">smc-discuss@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com">vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com</a><br>
</font><br></span><br><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote">Web site for the National Free Software Convention, 15, 16 November has bee inaugurated<br>Here is the link<br><br><a href="http://nfm2008.atps.in/" target="_blank">http://nfm2008.atps.in/</a><br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="all"><br></div><br>
</div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>JOBY JOHN<br><a href="mailto:jobyatps@gmail.com" target="_blank">jobyatps@gmail.com</a><br><a href="mailto:eiids@yahoo.com" target="_blank">eiids@yahoo.com</a><br>91-9446549598<br>
</div><br>
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~<br>
സ്വതന്ത്ര മലയാളം കമ്പ്യൂട്ടിങ്ങ് - എന്റെ കമ്പ്യൂട്ടറിനു് എന്റെ ഭാഷ
<br> സംരംഭം: <a href="https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/smc" target="_blank">https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/smc</a>
<br> വെബ്സൈറ്റ് : <a href="http://smc.org.in" target="_blank">http://smc.org.in</a> IRC ചാനല് : #smc-project @ freenode
<br> പിരിഞ്ഞു പോകാന്: <a href="mailto:smc-discuss-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">smc-discuss-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a> <br> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---<br>
<br>
<br>----------<br><span class="undefined"><font color="#888">From: <b class="undefined">Anivar Aravind</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:anivar.aravind@gmail.com">anivar.aravind@gmail.com</a>></span><br>Date: Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:44 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:smc-discuss@googlegroups.com">smc-discuss@googlegroups.com</a><br>Cc: <a href="mailto:ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com">ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:Keralites@yahoogroups.com">Keralites@yahoogroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:ossworkgroup@googlegroups.com">ossworkgroup@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com">vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com</a><br>
</font><br></span><br>2008/9/23 JOBY JOHN <<a href="mailto:jobyatps@gmail.com">jobyatps@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
Some mistakes in About page<br>
<br>
It says RMS participated in Hyderabad conference. As far as i remember<br>
RMS was not part of Hyderabad Conference. RMS was not in india at that<br>
time.<br>
<br>
See news on Hyderabd Convention (From my <a href="http://Del.icio.us" target="_blank">Del.icio.us</a> memmory :-))<br>
<a href="http://www.thehindu.com/2007/03/05/stories/2007030516130500.htm" target="_blank">http://www.thehindu.com/2007/03/05/stories/2007030516130500.htm</a><br>
<a href="http://www.hindu.com/2007/03/04/stories/2007030411510400.htm" target="_blank">http://www.hindu.com/2007/03/04/stories/2007030411510400.htm</a><br>
<br>
Anivar<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown FOSS<br>
industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning<br>
Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds.<br>
</font><br>----------<br><span class="undefined"><font color="#888">From: <b class="undefined">JOBY JOHN</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jobyatps@gmail.com">jobyatps@gmail.com</a>></span><br>Date: 2008/9/24<br>
To: <a href="mailto:smc-discuss@googlegroups.com">smc-discuss@googlegroups.com</a><br>Cc: <a href="mailto:ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com">ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:Keralites@yahoogroups.com">Keralites@yahoogroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:ossworkgroup@googlegroups.com">ossworkgroup@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com">vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com</a><br>
</font><br></span><br><div dir="ltr">mistake will be corrected<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2008/9/24 Anivar Aravind <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:anivar.aravind@gmail.com" target="_blank">anivar.aravind@gmail.com</a>></span><div>
<div></div></div></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br></div><div><div></div></div><br>----------<br><span class="undefined"><font color="#888">From: <b class="undefined">JOBY JOHN</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jobyatps@gmail.com">jobyatps@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: 2008/9/25<br>To: <a href="mailto:ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com">ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:smc-discuss@googlegroups.com">smc-discuss@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:ossworkgroup@googlegroups.com">ossworkgroup@googlegroups.com</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com">vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com</a><br></font><br></span><br><div dir="ltr">please see this comment <br><br><br>Dear All,<br><br>This comment is with respect to the observation that
those who didnot contribute anything to Free software movement are the
organisers of the conference.<br><br>In fact, the term organising
committee for the Kochi conference doesnot mean to say that they are
the organisers of the movement. They are organisers of the event. With
this hosting of the event they too become part of the movement. This is
a process of enlisting the support of wider sections of the people. So
Long as our itntention is to enlist the support of everybody that is
interested in FREEDOM of software and knowledge, why should we blame
those who come forward to host the conference, for the reason that they
have not contributed so far? No body can highjack the movement to wrong
tracks. The movement is so strong by virtue of the ideals over which it
is founded and the credit will always remain with the FSF.<br>
<br>The factual errors pointed out are being corrected. <br><font color="#888888"><br>Thomas</font><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
They got it wrong for the simple reason that these 'so called<br>
organizers' were not even in the picture when the first conference was<br>
conducted. Never thought people could become this shameless.<br>
<br>
James<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
<br>
<br>
HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div><div><div></div></div><br>----------<br><span class="undefined"><font color="#888">From: <b class="undefined">Praveen A</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pravi.a@gmail.com">pravi.a@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM<br>To: Anivar Aravind <<a href="mailto:anivar.aravind@gmail.com">anivar.aravind@gmail.com</a>><br></font><br></span><br>I thought he was questioning FSF India :-( (and I was kind of<br>
shocked). So luckily I added my doubt at the end...<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: James Mathew <<a href="mailto:james@gnu.org.in">james@gnu.org.in</a>><br>
Date: 2008/9/25<br>
Subject: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re:<br>
[smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated<br>
To: <a href="mailto:ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com">ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com</a><br>
Free Software movement has come this far only because of the selfless<br>
efforts of communities and individual users. New groups and<br>
organizations coming up in support of this movement is always a<br>
welcome sign.<br>
<br>
The question here is an ethical one. The organizers have every right<br>
to hold a conf on FS. But tell me how are they morally justified in<br>
calling this the 2nd National Conf on FS? The 1st National Conf was<br>
conducted by FSF India, Swecha and Dept. of History University of<br>
Hyderabad. If they really wanted to conduct a sequel to the 1st conf,<br>
they could have done so in consultation with the initial organizers.<br>
<br>
The least they can do at this point is to admit their mistake and<br>
rename their conf. to something else.<br>
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~<br>
"Freedom is the only law".<br>
"Freedom Unplugged"<br>
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-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്<br>
<GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call!<br>
<DRM> What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?<br>
(as seen on /.)<br>
Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now!<br>
<a href="http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign" target="_blank">http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign</a><br>
</font><br>----------<br><span class="undefined"><font color="#888">From: <b class="undefined">Anivar Aravind</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:anivar.aravind@gmail.com">anivar.aravind@gmail.com</a>></span><br>Date: Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:05 PM<br>
To: Praveen A <<a href="mailto:pravi.a@gmail.com">pravi.a@gmail.com</a>><br></font><br></span><br>I understood his point. It is a valid one<br>
<br>
Anivar<br>
<div><div></div></div><font color="#888888">--<br>
Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free<br>
Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs.<br>
</font><div><div></div></div><br>----------<br><span class="undefined"><font color="#888">From: <b class="undefined">JOBY JOHN</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jobyatps@gmail.com">jobyatps@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: 2008/9/26<br>To: <a href="mailto:ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com">ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com">vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:smc-discuss@googlegroups.com">smc-discuss@googlegroups.com</a><br>
</font><br></span><br><div dir="ltr"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">thomas joseph</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:thomasatps@gmail.com" target="_blank">thomasatps@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 8:35 AM<br>Subject: [ATPS] Re: Fwd: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated<br>To: James Mathew <<a href="mailto:james@gnu.org.in" target="_blank">james@gnu.org.in</a>>, atps <<a href="mailto:ATPS@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">ATPS@googlegroups.com</a>><br>
<br><br><div dir="ltr">
<p style="margin-bottom:0in">The confusion is very clear now. The
example quoted is that of a political party, the CPI(M). It should be with the
blessings of that party that the Coimbatore party organisation hosted
and organised the congress.<br><br><span style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 102)">But here it is not the FSF annual
that we are holding in Kochi.</span><br></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in">It is a conference on Free Software. We
are trying to get the participation of activits from across the
country, with experts putting their views before them, so that the
movement spreads across the country, which is not the activity
undertaken by FSF.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in">This was done in Hyderabad too. Hence
this is second edition of that.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in">This is not replication of institution
or activities of FSF India.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in">There is no conflict with FSF
activities or ideals.</p><div>
<br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 6:14 AM, James Mathew <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:james@gnu.org.in" target="_blank">james@gnu.org.in</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
<div>><br>
> As per Arun of FSF India himself,<br>
><br>
> Free software activists in AP has organised the convention at Hyderabad.<br>
> FSF india only supported it and welcomed all the Free software activists to<br>
> the event.<br>
><br>
> Then why free software activists in Kochi cant host and organise the next<br>
> conference. It too will have to be supported by FSF India.<br>
><br>
<br>
</div>The 19th Party Congress (CPM) was held in Coimbtore this year. It was<br>
organized by the Cadres of that place, with the blessings of CPM.<br>
<br>
Do you think that it is possible for some over-exited cadres in Kochi<br>
to announce a 20th Congress on their own next year? I don't want to<br>
elaborate on this. Hope you get the point.</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br></div><div> Joseph Thomas<br><a href="mailto:thomasatps@gmail.com" target="_blank">thomasatps@gmail.com</a>,<br> 9447738369.<br>
</div></div></div></div><br>----------<br><span class="undefined"><font color="#888">From: <b class="undefined">Praveen A</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pravi.a@gmail.com">pravi.a@gmail.com</a>></span><br>Date: 2008/9/27<br>
To: <a href="mailto:vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com">vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com</a><br>Cc: <a href="mailto:ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com">ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:smc-discuss@googlegroups.com">smc-discuss@googlegroups.com</a><br>
</font><br></span><br>2008/9/26 JOBY JOHN <<a href="mailto:jobyatps@gmail.com">jobyatps@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
Does that mean, a political party, CPI(M), organization is more<br>
important than a civil society organisation? Does that mean only a<br>
party organization needs to be respected?<br>
That is the exact problem we are talking about. When some one (who was<br>
not associated with the first edition) say it is the second edition of<br>
an event conducted by FSF India (along with other organizations),<br>
people believe it would be similar to the earlier event. But you have<br>
now stated it is not the same. If the event is not same as the first<br>
edition, how can you call it the second edition?<br>
Wow!! That was a good judgment of what the FSF has been doing all<br>
these years !!!<br>
You want us to believe that? A statement from someone who does not<br>
even know who organized the first edition in Hyderabad.<br>
But taking over the legacy of first national conference from FSF.<br>
If you believe taking over the ownership of second edition of an event<br>
organized by FSF India without discussing with them is not conflict,<br>
then I will have to agree with you.<br>
<br>
We are not contesting the fact that the event is going to promote Free<br>
Software. What we have a problem with is hijacking the legacy and name<br>
of first national conference on Free Software __WITHOUT__ discussing<br>
with the organisers of the first nationa conference. This has led<br>
people to believe there is something else is going on behind the<br>
scenes and we are asking for clarity.<br>
<br>
If it was announced as First National Conference organised by 'so and<br>
so' organisations at Kochi, it would not have been a problem. So I<br>
would suggest you to discuss with the organisers of the first national<br>
conference and ask them if they are ok with using their legacy. Or<br>
remove the "second" part from the name and have it as your first<br>
conference.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
</font><div><div></div></div><br>----------<br><span class="undefined"><font color="#888">From: <b class="undefined">JOBY JOHN</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jobyatps@gmail.com">jobyatps@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: 2008/9/28<br>To: <a href="mailto:ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com">ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:smc-discuss@googlegroups.com">smc-discuss@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com">vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com</a><br>
</font><br></span><br><div dir="ltr"><br>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><font color="#888888"></font><br style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 51)"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><font color="#888888">James Mathew
asked :</font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;background-color:rgb(153, 255, 153)">What made you think that the 1st
national conference was not an annual<br>event of FSF India?</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><br><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><font color="#888888">thomas joseph
<<a href="mailto:thomasatps@gmail.com" target="_blank">thomasatps@gmail.com</a>>
says :</font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><font color="#888888">I am not
undermining and under estimating the great FSF organisation by
assuming that it was inactive during the period from 2000 to 2007 to
the extend to hold its annual in Hyderabad in 2007. </font>
</p><p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><font color="#888888">James Mathew
said :</font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;background-color:rgb(102, 255, 153)">"..which is not the activity
undertaken by FSF." Again how did you<br>know? Did you ask
somebody from FSF India?</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><font color="#888888">thomas joseph
<<a href="mailto:thomasatps@gmail.com" target="_blank">thomasatps@gmail.com</a>>
says :</font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><font color="#888888">What is done by
Hyderabad organisers has not been done earlier by FSF, mobilising
activists from all over India. For knowing that one need not ask
somebody at FSF India. All are watching and understanding what is FSF
India. </font>
</p><p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><font color="#888888">James Mathew
said :</font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in;background-color:rgb(102, 255, 153)">Please refer to this
link.<br><a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20071216052848/http://nationalconvention.swecha.org/WordPress/" target="_blank">http://web.archive.org/web/20071216052848/http://nationalconvention.swecha.org/WordPress/</a><br>
<br>The
organizers are clearly listed. I think this is to be given
more<br>weight than a quick mail from Arun.<br><br>The point i'm
trying to stress is that you didn't show the courtesy
to<br>contact/consult any of the initial organizers. Had that been
done, we<br>could have all worked together for spreading this
philosophy of FS,<br>avoiding all this confusion.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><font color="#888888">thomas joseph
<<a href="mailto:thomasatps@gmail.com" target="_blank">thomasatps@gmail.com</a>>
says ;</font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><font color="#888888">The website of
swecha website lists FSF India as one of the organisers or even the
main organiser. Yes, they may have their own assessment of the
assistance obtained from FSF or the role played by it. Can you please
quote any FSF India document to show that it held its first or any
subsequent annual in Hyderabad during March .2007.</font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><font color="#888888">Again, the
question of ethics and rights are being raised. Why FSF India should
have this sort of Identity crisis ? By such questions and mails from
those in FSF India confusion is created among the supporters and
activists. Better FSF India shed
its over emphasis on its rights. The emphasis on its right, in effect,
mean the right to contain, restrict and prevent advancement of the Free
Software movement.
FSF is a respectable organisation and its name and fame shall not be
destroyed by such stand taken by FSF India, please.</font></p><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:41 AM, James Mathew <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:james@gnu.org.in" target="_blank">james@gnu.org.in</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">To: thomas joseph <<a href="mailto:thomasatps@gmail.com" target="_blank">thomasatps@gmail.com</a>><br>
<div></div>What made you think that the 1st national conference was not an annual<br>
event of FSF India?"..which is not the activity undertaken by FSF." Again how did you<br>
know? Did you ask somebody from FSF India?Please refer to this link.<br>
<a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20071216052848/http://nationalconvention.swecha.org/WordPress/" target="_blank">http://web.archive.org/web/20071216052848/http://nationalconvention.swecha.org/WordPress/</a><br>
<br>
The organizers are clearly listed. I think this is to be given more<br>
weight than a quick mail from Arun.<br>
<br>
The point i'm trying to stress is that you didn't show the courtesy to<br>
contact/consult any of the initial organizers. Had that been done, we<br>
could have all worked together for spreading this philosophy of FS,<br>
avoiding all this confusion.</blockquote></div></div><div><div></div></div><br>----------<br><span class="undefined"><font color="#888">From: <b class="undefined">JOBY JOHN</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jobyatps@gmail.com">jobyatps@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 4:18 PM<br>To: <a href="mailto:vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com">vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com</a><br>Cc: <a href="mailto:ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com">ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:smc-discuss@googlegroups.com">smc-discuss@googlegroups.com</a><br>
</font><br></span><br><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">vivaravicharam said :</p><p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">praveen said :</p><p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">Vivaravicharam says :</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">The above words doesnot give any such
idea that political party is more important than a civil society
organisation. The point raised in that respect is that coimbatore
conference of CPI(M) was its annual, which can only further be
followed up by that party alone.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">But the Hyderabad conference is not
the annual of FSF India, it is an event conducted by the Hyderabad
activists, efforts being made to enlist the participation of
activists from all over the country.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">Had it been the annual of FSF, what
we are doing now in Kochi, ie . Naming it as 2<sup>nd</sup>
conference is absolutely wrong. But to us the Hyderabad even was not
the annual of FSF.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><br><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><br><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">vivaravicharam said :</p><p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">praveen said :</p><p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">Vivaravicharam says :</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">Holding conference in series doesnot
mean to repeat what is done earlier. The subsequent events will be
much advanced with more participation and more results. The content
discussed also will vary.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">Again, the point is Hyderabad event
is, in praveens own term, organised by civil society. FSF is only
one of the organisation representing a section of civil society. No
organisation can claim to be whole and sole representative of civil
society.
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">Kochi conference also is being
organised by representative of civil society, without any tall claim
of representing all, but in any case representing vast majority.
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">vivaravicharam said :</p><p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">praveen said :</p><p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">The comment made by vivaravicharam
earlier is justified by the fact that FSF has not organised any such
event other than may be in Trivandrum all through he period of 2000
(Year of institution of FSF India) and 2007, the year of Hyderabad
conference. This is why it is commented that FSF India has not been
organising conferences in different parts of India with the aim of
expanding the movement. They in FSF support, serve, offer consultancy
and what ever they do to those who approach them. The vast majority
of Indians are still unaware of the very issue of Software Freedom.
FSF India, instead of disputing the rights of others to organise a
conference or do something for the expansion of the movement, shall
support all such activities going on in the country, as it has done
to Hyderabad community.
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><br><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">vivaravicharam said :</p><p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">praveen said :</p><p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">Vivaravicharam says :</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">We both hold the same point. Either
of us is correct. To me Hyderabad event is conducted by Free Software
Activits of Hyderabad (AP) with the support of FSF India. It was not
initiated, called for, or organised at the initiative of FSF India.
On the contrary it was initiated, called for, support of FSF India
sought for and organised by Hyderabad Activists including FSF
members. Can any body show any of the FSF India document (I dont mean
the site and documents of Hyderabad event ) to show that FSF India
organised the Hyderabad event ?</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><br><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">vivaravicharam said :</p><p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">praveen said :</p><p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">Vivaravicharam says :</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">Is Praveen arguing that Hyderabad
event was the first national conference of FSF India ? Just
reconsider it. We have no claims. We only do what we felt correct. The
questions, doubts, confusion etc were created by others who questions
the right to hold the conference and name it the 2nd. We are not
claiming the legacy of any body. We have only named our conference 2nd
to that of Hyderabad conference only,
because that was the first conference that was organised by activists
of any city with earnest effort to organise participation from all
over the country, irrespective of the success/failure aspect. Efforts
were made. They were successful to a great extend despite the
limitations of being the first one.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><br><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">vivaravicharam said :</p><p style="margin-bottom:0.2in">praveen said :</p><p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"></p><font color="#888888"><br style="background-color:rgb(102, 255, 153)">
Vivaravicharam says
:</font><p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><font color="#888888">So far, all are
arguing for FSF India and contesting the right of Kochi organisers to
name it as 2</font><font color="#888888"><sup>nd</sup></font><font color="#888888">
conference. No body talks on behalf of Hyderabad University, SWECHA
and the FREEDOM activits of Hyderabad who is not connected with FSF
activities and even Free Software Activities. </font>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0.2in"><font color="#888888">Organisers of
Kochi conference are not claiming the owner ship of even this Kochi
conference, leave alone Hyderabad one. Software freedom activists
shall, at aleast, know the difference between ownership and right to
ownership. Here, we don't claim any right to ownership. No claim of
owner ship even. We are only serving the cause of FSF. But FSF India
is annoyed, worried and agrieved of their right to ownership (!). We
give the ownership right of Kochi conference to the civil society,
which belongs to FSF as well. But we shall not surrender our right to
our duty, the duty to work for FREEDOM of every body, not only that
of software, but knowledge and civil in general. Let FSF claim the
right of ownership (!) of this conference as well (!) by supporting
it as they have done (?) in Hyderabad. Why creating confusion among
the activits ? for whom ? And For what ?</font></p><div><div></div></div></div><br>
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~<div><div></div></div><br>----------<br><span class="undefined"><font color="#888">From: <b class="undefined">Praveen A</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pravi.a@gmail.com">pravi.a@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: 2008/9/29<br>To: <a href="mailto:vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com">vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com</a><br>Cc: <a href="mailto:ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com">ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:smc-discuss@googlegroups.com">smc-discuss@googlegroups.com</a><br>
</font><br></span><br>2008/9/28 JOBY JOHN <<a href="mailto:jobyatps@gmail.com">jobyatps@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
The annual was just an example. It does not mean that only annuals<br>
conducted by an organization needs to be respected by others trying to<br>
conduct sequels.<br>
It is just a strawman argument <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman_argument" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman_argument</a><br>
That is the problem here. Everyone who participated in the first event<br>
will think it is similar to the first event. Also people will<br>
associate the event to the ideas and policies of the first event. Now<br>
when some other party claims it is the second edition, we can only<br>
hope it would have the same policy, especially when the first<br>
organizers are not involved?<br>
I did not say this. What I said was "Does that mean, a political<br>
"Civil society" and "a civil society organisation" is not the same.<br>
<br>
ഇതു് ആടും ആട്ടിന്കാട്ടവും ഒന്നാണെന്നു് പറയുന്നതു് പോലെയാണു്.<br>
another strawman argument<br>
I could give just a few names of the conferences that FSF has done<br>
<br>
like<br>
* <a href="http://gplv3.gnu.org.in/" target="_blank">http://gplv3.gnu.org.in/</a> International conference on GPLv3 (now<br>
don't tell me international conferences don't count :-) )<br>
* <a href="http://fsfs.hipatia.net/" target="_blank">http://fsfs.hipatia.net/</a> Free Software, Free Society conference<br>
(again international)<br>
<br>
I'm amazed at the enthusiasm you are showing to judge the activities<br>
of FSF India when you don't even seem to be aware of the event<br>
happened in Thiruvananthapuram 3 years back.<br>
<br>
I don't have to continue batting for FSF India, since the community<br>
knows how much it has contributed to promoting Free Software in India.<br>
This is news to me !! Thanks to enlightening me.<br>
I agree with this whole heartedly.<br>
But the way to do is not by undermining the existing community by<br>
hijacking their legacy but by joining hands with them.<br>
As far as I know the event is initiated and organised by one of the<br>
members of board of director of FSF India (he is also part of<br>
Swetcha).<br>
Wouldn't the active participation and leadership of Kiran Chandra<br>
won't count as FSF India participation?<br>
I answered it already.<br>
We did not contest the right to hold a conference, on the contrary we<br>
are welcoming it. We are only contesting the name in a positive spirit<br>
to remove any confusions arriving from the naming.<br>
This is seriously an insult to the many active members of the Free<br>
Software community who work tirelessly to promote the idea of Software<br>
Freedom from a person who is arrogant to acknowledge the contributions<br>
of the community and want to take credit for others work.<br>
<br>
There is many conferences happening all over India at every time of<br>
the year organised by different Free Software communities. <a href="http://FOSS.IN" target="_blank">FOSS.IN</a>,<br>
Freed, GNUnify, FOSS Meet@NITC, Mukt.in to name a few. We have not<br>
gone and contested with them for credits or asked them to change<br>
names.<br>
With the due respect for your duty to promote the Freedom only, we are<br>
asking you to correct a wrong step. Rights also comes with<br>
responsibility.<br>
We are not asking you to give ownership to FSF here, but to release<br>
the ownership of the first conference you have assumed without<br>
consulting with FSF India. These are the questions I have to ask.<br>
<br>
Why was FSF India not contacted when FSF India was the organiser of<br>
the the first conference?<br>
<br>
Why are you discrediting the contributions of the Free Software<br>
community by claiming there is only one conference have happened till<br>
now?<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
--<br>
</font><div><div></div></div><br>----------<br><span class="undefined"><font color="#888">From: <b class="undefined">JOBY JOHN</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jobyatps@gmail.com">jobyatps@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: 2008/9/29<br>To: <a href="mailto:smc-discuss@googlegroups.com">smc-discuss@googlegroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com">ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com</a><br></font><br></span><br><div dir="ltr"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Anilkumar KV</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:anilankv@gmail.com" target="_blank">anilankv@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:47 AM<br>Subject: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated<br>To: <a href="mailto:vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">vivaravicharam@googlegroups.com</a><br>
<br><br><br>
Praveen, James and all,<br>
<br>
The first conference was organised by a group of free software<br>
activists in Andra. They wanted FSF-India be a part of it. The<br>
FSF-India does not shown any interest in that event. However after<br>
finalising the program, the secretary of FSF-India put an email<br>
informing FSF-friends that some free software activists in Andra is<br>
conducting such an event, and FSF-India supports it. No other official<br>
initiatives were known to be taken by FSF-India for conducting<br>
Hyderabad event. If I miss anything as such please point it out.<br>
<br>
Yes here question is ethical one. How can FSF-India claimed to be<br>
organisers of an a event for which they just extended its support.<br>
<br>
The organisers of Kochi event, have started their effort after<br>
consulting with the real organisers of Hyderabad event. In fact the<br>
name of the event itself was suggested by them and not decided by<br>
Kochi organisers by themselves. Hence in here the legacy is a natural<br>
right and not just a claim.<br>
<br>
Before the reception committee formation, the organisers of Kochi<br>
event has asked support from FSF-India secretary, However the<br>
response was not in favour. Even now, it is not late for FSF-India to<br>
extend the support for this event. And I feel the Kochi organisers are<br>
even ready to accept FSF-India as organisers of the second conference<br>
<br>
The FSF-India directors and secretary are aware of these discussions<br>
going on here. Let them respond.<br>
<br>
- Anil<br>
<div><div></div><div><br>
<br>
</div></div></div></div><div><div></div></div><br>----------<br><span class="undefined"><font color="#888">From: <b class="undefined">Praveen A</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pravi.a@gmail.com">pravi.a@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: 2008/9/29<br>To: സ്വതന്ത്ര മലയാളം കമ്പ്യൂട്ടിങ്ങ് <<a href="mailto:smc-discuss@googlegroups.com">smc-discuss@googlegroups.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com">ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com</a><br></font><br>
</span><br>forwarding reply to an earlier discussion.<br>
Anil,<br>
<br>
Kiran Chandra's active role in organising the event will not count? Or<br>
are you claiming Kiran Chandra did not take leadership in organising<br>
the event?<br>
As pointed above, I'm asking about the role of Kiran Chandra in<br>
organising the event.<br>
Again repeat. As far as I know Kiran Chandra was actively involved in<br>
the organising of the event. I'm amazed at the tone of the organizers<br>
of this event in discredit the FSF India's role of supporting the Free<br>
Software community for such a long time and also discrediting the role<br>
played by many individuals in the Free Software community by claiming<br>
the only effort to promote Free Software happened was last year in<br>
Hyderabad. Now the concerns are getting even beiiger about the motives<br>
of the organisers about this event.<br>
<br>
Why would they not consult with the community?<br>
Why would they discredit Free Software community's efforts for such a long time?<br>
Why would they be blind to so many of the Free Software conferences<br>
that has happened and happening all over the country?<br>
I would like to know who suggested not to involve the orginal<br>
organisers and who suggested the name?<br>
This is the whole problem. Free Software community does not work this way.<br>
This is like telling Linus Torvalds that he can join hacking the Linux<br>
kernel by a newbie without any clue about the Linux kernel.<br>
I'm expressing the concerns of the Free Software community in a manner<br>
that is common in the community. We always raise our objections in<br>
public mailing lists.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
</font><div><div></div></div><br></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds.<br>
</div></div>