[Fsf-friends] [FSUG-Bangalore] Fwd: [ilugd] AGBM, and elections to ILUG-Delhi: Sun., May 3rd, 2pm, SIT-JNU

Harish Singh kumar.harish.singh at googlemail.com
Thu Mar 26 07:58:11 IST 2009


Repost :( for fsf-friends list only

2009/3/25 Harish Singh <kumar.harish.singh at googlemail.com> :

Hello! You are not reading what is the official statement at debian.org 
. Essential it says
"Even though Debian isn't really a democracy, we use a democratic 
process to elect our leaders and to approve general resolutions. These 
procedures are defined by the Debian Constitution 
<http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution>. "

When you say "There is nothing there in those links that contradicts 
what opinion I
have expressed. The developers are expressing their individual
opinions on the issues mentioned."
I'll take it your blind or delusional or both. For your benefit and 
reading, I'm copying what Daniel Ostrow has to say in his "Democracy:  
No Silver bullet".

<quote> In addition to the conclusion that too much freedom has entered the
life-blood that drives Gentoo it is also often the case that from the
stance of upper management there is not enough freedom given. Part of
what paralyzes the Council and devrel and any other historical body that
has tried to keep Gentoo healthy is that there is an understanding that
they can only act as a whole...as individuals none of them have power as
there is fear that a rogue person in a position to abuse their
responsibility will do so. It is my contention that with a body of
multiple individuals such as the Council that there would be the ability
to recognize and mitigate the damage done by such a rogue. I'd posit
that by voting someone onto the council you are saying that you trust
them enough to carry this duty on their shoulders. The Council itself
should not be just a technical body to validate the merits of GLERs
and/or emerging projects, it (or some other yet to be established group)
has to carry the solemn duty of carrying Gentoo into the future,
nurturing it as only a parent could.

I'd also wager that allowing those who have been trusted to be in power
to act a little on their own would provide the capability for that group
to react more quickly, there wouldn't need to be emergency meetings, you
wouldn't need to push off decisions for a full month and in general as
there would be more activity there would also be more transparency as
the actions of the group would be visible. -- Daniel Ostrow </quote>


<quote> At the top level, the council, in its present form does not 
manage Gentoo. It can't, it's pretty much dis-empowered as a management 
organisation due to the rules for its agenda setting. Further, don't see 
any any evidence of it setting targets and measuring progress or even 
getting progress reports. -- Roy Bamford 
<http://lwn.net/Articles/197389/> </quote>

Not as you **think**, they are making comments about the ILL EFFECTS OF 
democracy on the project. There are multitude of others ( contributers 
and those who are aspiring to be council members ) voicing similar 
concerns on the same subject.
I'll spell it out to you. Their opinions are **contrary** to your 
opinions of transparency and accountability etc.

You can post any number of examples, twist the words and make up your 
own conclusions, but reality is no one is fooled. There was a time in 
the past when everyone believed that having elected officials would 
magically solve all the problems. We now know that the system can be 
gamed for the benefit of those who have the moola and time. "Experience 
hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted 
with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into 
tyranny. - Thomas Jefferson"

Bye now.Harish

p.s: When I see you are quoting William E. Simon I can only conclude you 
want to be in the company of Nixon and Halliburton, which he was a 
director of after his retirement from public office. You know 
Halliburton which is the epitome of freedom and transparency. "12 Feb 
2009 *...* HOUSTON - KBR Inc. and its former parent, /Halliburton/ Co. , 
agreed to pay $579 million to resolve US criminal and regulatory charges 
that the engineering company paid bribes totaling more than $180 million 
to Nigerian officials to win more than $6 billion in contracts to build 
a liquefied natural gas project in that country.

Andrew Farley, KBR's general counsel, entered a guilty plea yesterday in 
federal court in Houston on behalf of the Houston-based company to 
conspiracy and to violating the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, and 
agreed to a $402 million fine.

Separately, the Securities and Exchange Commission said Halliburton and 
KBR would pay $177 million in forfeited profits to settle civil bribery 
allegations without admitting wrongdoing.

KBR also pledged at a federal court hearing to hire an independent 
monitor to review its internal controls and record keeping for three 
years " says it best.



Vikram Vincent wrote:
> 2009/3/24 Harish Singh <kumar.harish.singh at googlemail.com>:
>   
>> Uh. Where did you find that quote ? It sounds like you picked that one out
>>     
>
> When people make rash comments without investigating the facts we can
> evaluate the person and their opinions better.
>
>   
>> of a hat. That quote is inaccurate on so many levels, I wouldn't know where
>> to start.
>>     
>
> The original quote is here http://www.allgreatquotes.com/politician_quotes.shtml
>  "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't
> vote. -- William E. Simon"
>
>   
>> FYI Debian is not an example of democracy by their own admission. Before you
>> post something to a public forum you should check your notes.
>>     
>
> Do you follow the elections of the DPL? What about the intense
> discussions on matters of policy within Debian? I guess you are
> talking through your hat. Read
> http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution and follow the appropriate
> MLs.
>
>   
>> If you want to see democracy and its ill effects on a project head on over
>> to
>> http://lwn.net/Articles/197383/ (
>>
>>  Re: Democracy: No silver bullet )
>> http://lwn.net/Articles/197380/ (
>>  Managing Gentoo - a study in quotes ).
>>     
>
> There is nothing there in those links that contradicts what opinion I
> have expressed. The developers are expressing their individual
> opinions on the issues mentioned.
> If you feel that FSF-I need not follow transparency, democracy,
> dynamism, accountability then you and whoever else are free to keep
> that opinion.
> I can tell you quite confidently that if FSF-I follows such a path
> then it will not be long before the only people left with FSF-I are
> its office bearers.
>
> <off-topic>
> Currently, the majority of the votes cast across the country are by
> uneducated people. They vote for a particular party because they are
> given certain incentives. The people who claim to be educated ie., the
> urban and educated lot and others give a variety of reasons for not
> partaking in this important responsibility towards our country. And
> then they complain...
> So because you did not vote the corrupt come to power.
> Check out the Ads by Times on TV they really emphasise on the point.
> A popular band from Christ College 'Thermal and a Quarter' came out with a song
> called 'Shut up and Vote' Watch it on youtube.
>
> http://www.mid-day.com/poll2009/2009/mar/180309-Jaago-Re-One-Billion-Vote-Campaign-Bruce-Lee-Mani-Rock-Tour-Shut-Up-and-Vote-Songs-Poll-2009.htm
>
> And if you do not like any of the contestants then at least cancel
> your vote so that it is not misused.
> So shut up about the problems and vote.
> </off-topic>
>   



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