[Fsf-friends] Comrades’ new-found love with IT

justin joseph justinjoseph007 at gmail.com
Fri Jan 9 09:15:54 IST 2009


On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Anivar Aravind <anivar.aravind at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 10:23 AM, justin joseph
> <justinjoseph007 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Anivar Aravind <anivar.aravind at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 2:21 PM, haynes davis <haynesdavis at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> right now non-cpim is a big vacuum regarding free software as far as
>>>> political and government support is considered. Why our struggle does not
>>>> seem to be productive in the other states and the central government?
>>
>>> And Left's adoption of Free Software Policy in Kerala is also a
>>> logical follow up of various actions & discussions initiated by Free
>>> Software Activists. Even the decision to adopt Free Software in
>>> IT at School was decided in an SCERT meeting (with the support of 85% of
>>> teachers) much before  2006 elections. But the govt came after
>>> election got the political advantage of this decision. and we are very
>>> happy about that because they are also helping FS movement by adopting
>>> new policies .
>>
>> From http://blue-gnu.biz/content/fsf_india_039_s_impact_far_reaching
>>
>> Answering to question "Can you tell me some of the key events that
>> have brought FSF India to the present?"
>>
>> Sasi Kumar _also_ said:
>>
>> "This was supported by other organisations also, especially the Kerala
>> School Teachers' Association and the then Opposition Leader (current
>> Chief Minister) Mr. V.S. Achuthanandan. As a consequence of these
>> pressures, the textbook was changed in the second year to include Free
>> Software also. Eventually, the government decided to use exclusively
>> Free Software in schools. Thus Kerala became the first state in the
>> country (and possibly in the world) to use exclusively Free Software
>> in schools."
>
> Who denys this?
> What I am Pointing is succes stories of Free Software came through the
> struggles of a Social Movement. It was not a gift from Governments. A
> lot of Civil Society movements helped the process. KSTA & VS
> achuthananthan surely have a prominent role in this.

Your last mail did not have this informations(omissions).  These
additions to the last mail which
you had claimed as reminding history is welcome.  Especially the
teachers(majority) being KSTA.

Not only Free software, but freedom also is not a gift from any
goverments.  And Free software
has a long way to go in India.

>
>> Anivar, you are also talking binary.  "Left" on one side and "Free
>> Software activists" on other side.
>
> Thins only shows you didn't get my point. I was Opposing the Only-CPIM
> position used in the list to sabotage the merits of a Social Movement
> . At First  i am not equating All Left  with CPI(M).  Various left
> forces in Kerala  (As a left leaning state) like KSSP, KSTA etc & CPIM
> (at least some leaders like VS, Yechuri etc) subscribed the values of
> Free Software Movement in a good way. This is the way a movement is

Certainly I did not get your point, which you have now mentioned.
Primarily because the last
mail did not have this point.

> growing. But when they are saying we need to Control/hijack/co-opt
> (use whatever words you feel suitable) Free Software Movement  to CPIM
> we have to remind the history

This point has been discussed and a lot of bandwidth spend allready.
The history that just now changed to include some prominent roles.

>
>> Are you saying that the _Kerala School Teachers Association_ (your
>> (teachers)are entirely composed of free software
>
> Not Entirely . FSF India distributed Debian based Custom branded CD's
> to school teachers through KSTA (After IT at School Refused to conduct
> TYrainings on GNU/Linux). And Offered Training to teachers with the
> help of KSTA.  In SCERT meeting Most of the teachers agreed with the
> New IT at School Distro. But the Only Opposition was against branding it
> with KSTA Logo. Supported Teachers includes KSTA +Other Teachers.
> Supporting Good educational tools is not in the basis of a Party. And
> FSFI made new CD  with IT at School Branding

Supporting "Good educational tools" might not be on the basis of a party.
But supporting Free as in Freedom educational tools could have the concerned
party's ideas behind it.  Not only for teachers but also students.  For example,
the primary reason why we did our Btech course project(GCC) on Free software
back in 2002-2003 was because of experiments at political
understanding of Free software.
As activist of movements we were used to thinking in the political paradigm.
And this is what am suggesting makes a lot of difference, the
political reactions to
free software.  That difference will take one from conference halls
and barcamp rooms
out to the shools and colleges and govt: offices and to the people.
This difference is
what makes lead of a major event think in terms of "Low hanging fruit".

>
>> activists and that V.S Achuthanandan was also a "free software activist"
>
> Off course. I hope he will continue to be

His support of free software based on his ideological understanding should not
be confused with what you have claimed now.  This is where things went wrong
as some found out themselves.

>
>> Out of the four gains that Sasi kumar has mentioned in his answer, he
>> gives credit to left parties directly in two.
>>
>> The other being:
>>
>> "The left parties, which are partners in the present coalition
>> government, were sympatheric to our cause and expressed their views to
>> the Minister. Eventually, the government decided to drop the
>> provisions that were most harmful."
>>
>> Sympathies of the left parties does not come out of charity or
>> emotion.  It comes out of
>> ideological positions and understandings.
>
> Totally agree . It must be based on understanding the Concept of Free
> Software & Its Freedom
>
>> If there is no
>> understanding of these then at least do
>> not try and play a disruptive force in the left - free software
>> alliance by suggesting that left and
>> free software activism of kerala are _totally_ mutually exclusive and
>> that the only interconnection
>> between them is through "follow up", "political advantage", "help" etc..
>
> I think you touched the key issue here
> I dont agree with the terms like  "alliance" & "Mutally exclusive".
> Because, this is based on One point. understanding & Supporting the
> cause of Free Software & Freedom in Computing. FSM is not endorsing
> CPI(M)'s view on any other issue or Any act.   FSM is only concerned
> with the Freedom in Computing. It can take support from any Political
> Parties (and any Organisation) for  promoting the cause of Free
> Software. "alliance" is limiting a movement with a single political
> party & supporting each and every act by the party.  FSM is growing by
> taking more support from more people. Not through alliances. It also
> have the freedom to criticize its supporters if it they are going
> against the goals of FSM. The current thread is also a reflection of
> this lack of understanding some people. "You have taken our support.
> So You dont have any right to speak against CPIM" was the spirit
> behind it. We have to oppose it.

Where does this end, some people lack of understanding and yours total
understanding.
When a Hijack mail was send by you and it was forwarded to 20
mailinglists naturally
Supporters of the left reacted to that, that is also freedom.  Anyway like
chennai person mentioned, they are fine now.  Which is what must happen after
discussions.  Rather than continuing endlessly.

What exactly do you mean by saying FSM (to avoid confusions).  And
from that definition
also explain how it has isolated itself from all other issues here.
When you say only about
Freedom in Computing you are assuming that like in the U.S everyone
here has access to Computing.
That is not at all the case, isn't it.  So now what will "FSM" do,
wait for someone else to campaign
for rights, and access and then maybe when all that work is done, come
and say.. Now we will
take it from here, you can merely support us hence forth.  This is
what I said to be mutually exclusive.
And this is a myth.  And this is why efforts like AC3 are making a difference.

Like haynes was trying to explain in the parent thread, the cultural reactions
to free software idea can be different.  To say that the reaction
should come only
in terms of support is excluding the scope of other possiblities.

>
>
>>>
>>> But when people are pushing Bush's binary logic of "Either you are
>>> with us or You are against us" (only-cpim positions and branding
>>> everything else as Anti-CPIM) we have to remind history.
>>
>> It is better for the free software ecosystems that you stop playing
>> its official historian.
>> Report is a different thing and _history_ is a totally different thing.
>>
>> http://mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-friends/2008-November/005850.html
>>
>
> Official Historian? Really Funny,

you said, "we have to remind history" who is this we?  Everyone has
views and opinions
Everyone has done what they felft like doing.  I don't understand this
uniform "we".  and "we remind
history" except as rhetoric for no reason.

> It was my Presentation in Kochi Conference. I have all rights to make
> my presentation as an article. and I posted it in this list for
> comments . What is your Problem?

You asked for comments and I commented.

>
>> Anyone can be with the left and still be a free software activist and
>> their  contribution
>> and the contributions of their likes,
>
> Off Course.  The most positive thing about Free Software Movement is
> it is not asking people to believe in an Ideology. Anyone, let it be a
> capitalist or communist, let it be Hobbyist or Hacker, The Code they
> Produce will be automatically become a  Social Product by Choosing the
> Free Software License. That is the most positive thing about this
> movement
>
>> you have no right to appropriate
>> as you wish and write histories
>> as you wish.
>
> If you are pointing the presentation in Kochi Conference, You didn't
> raised any valid critique on that yet. If you have any specific errors
> to mention and any points to add please let me know. Presentation is
> http://anivar.movingrepublic.org/wp-content/uploads/storydom.pdf
>
> But above sentences is questioning my right.  The intention of posting
> the slide to this list is taking comments on that. And this is not my
> Immediate important job. I still dont know why you are afraid of this
> presentation.

You have termed it as "History" and I have allready commented.

 http://mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-friends/2008-November/005850.html

Critique need not necessarily be the only way of engaging with ideas.
I never questioned your rights,  I merely pointed out that "History" might not
be exactly what you have in Mind which you are refering to as "History".
If you feel you have done justice to "History" and feel you are competent enough
to write "History" well let history judge.


>
> Anivar
>
> --
> Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free
> Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs.
> Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds.
>


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