[Fsf-friends] Fwd: [smc-discuss] Re: [Debian-in-workers] Red Hat signs MoU with Kerala govt

Praveen A pravi.a@[EMAIL-PROTECTED]
Fri Jun 8 19:03:18 IST 2007

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Anivar Aravind <anivar.aravind at gmail.com>
Date: २००७ जून ८ १२:२७
Subject: [smc-discuss] Re: [Debian-in-workers] Red Hat signs MoU with
Kerala govt
To: debian-in-workers at lists.alioth.debian.org, smc-discuss at googlegroups.com

Hash: SHA1

This mail seems that you are more focused on claims to kep ur ego than
the facts . I dont want to continue this non productive discussion based
on your articulated views with a lot of misconceptions. It only serves
your ego. I dont want to spam Others in this list. This will be my last
to this Thread in this list

Mahesh T. Pai wrote:
> Anivar Aravind said on Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 12:27:46AM +0530,:
>  > > Apart from Arun's ``I say so'', what are these statistics based on?
>  >
>  > http://www.hindu.com/2006/05/08/stories/2006050811430400.htm
> I am very much afraid that this article, or Biju Prabhakar's views do
> not reflect the ground realities.

Still u  your rabbit has 3 hones. "Ground realities" are related to the
ground. not your mind.

> (That article coincides with the day my kid was born, so I believe I
> missed it).
> The next question is probably off topic for this list and thread - the
> URL says that the FSF India  created the CD for IT at SCHOOL project; but
> my understanding is that space-kerala.org is doing it. Which is true?

That is the Problem with Your understanding
It is well Written every CD's of IT at school & On Readme Files.
If you ever seen a CD you can understand that
And I already posted the following  URL here earlier

>  > BTW Did u seen
>  > http://support.space-kerala.org/wiki/index.php/School_GNU_Linux_FAQ
>  > And
>  > http://support.space-kerala.org/wiki/index.php/School_GNU_Linux_Tips
>  > Before making authoritative comments?
> Which still does not answer my question -- ``where does the government
> say that it is using free software in the IT at SCHOOL project?''

Dont try to manipulate questions. This was in answer to

And there  is nothing -  absolutely nothing -- on  space-kerala.org or
it at school  website  or KSITM  (kerala  state  IT  Mission) website  to
provide continued support for the kind of roll out required now.

So From where your new "my question" appeared? The Lawyers are infamous
for quoting outof context in courts. But In Email lists It will not work

> Some years  back, a government  agency started packaging a  version of
> GNU Linux for the IT at SCHOOL project. One fine morning, it was splashed
> all over the Malayalam language news papers that IT at SCHOOL is going to
> violating  some ``intellectual property''  if it  goes ahead  with the
> proposed CD.
> There  was a big  song and  dance by  so many  so many  of ``community
> leaders''  about  IT at SCHOOL violating  the  sanctity  of rights.   The
> community,  instead  of  helping  the  government agency  to  fix  the
> problems took  care to  give that project  (and the  government agency
> behind it) a bad name.

You still running on out of memory. It was about RedHAT based custom
Distribution for Akshaya Project created by CDIT, a quasi-govt
institute. Please Dont FUD

> Few months later,  IT at SCHOOL gave the contract to  building the cd for
> IT at SCHOOL to the community.

FUD Happens!!! Again & Again

>> This  happened a  few  months  before you  became  involved with  Free
> Software (at least, actively on the internet).

You are not the person for counting my involvement in free software.
You can say that it may be sometimes before we met. I am a GNU/User
atleast before 2 years before that. The same with "Active in Internet"
Clause too

> That scenario is repeating now. Probably there is something wrong with
> the  MoU (I cannot  identify it  yet). And  the community,  instead of
> working the persons involved, is  giving the MoU a bad name.

The issues here are
1. The MoU is not published so far & It is happened in a non-transparent
2. If It is a decision affecting the society( specifically on IT at school
case) , It must be decided with proper consultations with all civil
society Stakeholders ( Teachers Orgaisations, students, & free Software
community ) associated with that Project.

This MoU deserves a bad name because of it is an Untransperent
undemocratic decision

> Probably, the  community  wants  to  retain  the contracts  from  the
>  IT at SCHOOL project?

FUD again!! You are trying to link up the concerns of Free software
Community to Money Matters and undermining the concerns by putting the
money on top of that. Which completely not relevant here.

> Quite fine  with me  if you do  not take  any mone from  the IT at SCHOOL
> project  directly. That means,  on government's  records, you  are not
> involved  with the  project.  Therefore,  the government  is perfectly
> justified is not consulting you before entering into the MoU.

Money Decides everything in your point of view. govt is much better in
this case. earlier they called up volunteers for GNU/Linux in District
level . That list is available with schools itself.

I pointed It above On the second issue. Consultation with all civil
society stakeholders associated with any project before taking decisions
must be a mandate of Free software Community.

The model systems & laws are already there on non-digital world. Before
planning Big Projects that affect lives & livelihood of people  there
must be Public hearing based on  an Environment Impact Assesement.
We are demanding the same in Digital Era.  Just see a similar demand by
Fisherfolks (I got it right now)

> That is why  I repeatedly say, do not work for  the government free of
> cost. Do  any work free of cost  for the government free  of cost, and
> you  can be  assured that  it will  go down  the town/village/district
> drain.

The Free software adoption of IT at school was not a boon given by
Government. It was a civil society campaign for Essential freedoms in
Computing Led by Various Individuals & Groups (including KSTA, FSF-I
etc). Who pays for the campaign?

Free Software Adoption in schools helped them (at least in my village)
to link it up the expertise in society in a major way. In Kerala
scenario Schools & Libraries are the social space in which people meet &
discuss. This helped a lot of people to adopt free software (and a lot
of people bought new systems too) and a lot of youth (who came out from
schools) become free software users. Free software exits in society
because of its strong social linkages. That society will surely support
a free software developer for developing the solution they want. I am
not subscribing ur "drain" theory on market equations

> Free software is not free masala dosa.

I agree. Both r different. But is not only regarding cost. One is to
finish your Thirst for freedom & other is an optional and need is
related to the conditions of your stomach

>  > This is a usual problem for people thinking in Terms of Market &
>  > Money than Social Means of work. We work for Free Software &
>  > language Computing Mainly Because of Thinking Social Benefits of
>  > It. The social cause is the motivating factor here. Not Money. We
>  > know that people will support us too if we can address the social
>  > needs.
> Anivar, I know that you do not care much about money. But, do not deny
> that you were involved with the space-kerala.org / FSF India. When you
> criticise  actions by the  government [apparently]  in favour  of Free
> software, but against the existing interests which support the present
> day  activities of  the governments,  I will  need to  scrutinise your
> claims very closely.

FSF India & space-kerala are not a part of the state. Those are civil
society organisations. So how it matters!!..

Self Scrutinising will be also good at this moment I feel.

> If you  have not been  financially involved with  the space-kerala.org
> and  /  or FSF  India,  I  apologise about  the  money  part, else  my
> statements stand.

I am not getting your point. I professionally Involved with FSF-I &
SPACE . Apologies accepted.

But dont try to put mud on Organisations & People working to promote
free software in the state on behalf of your undisclosed  Personal
agenda's or interests.

- --
Anivar Aravind
moving Republic

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